In the twenty-first episode of the second season of Buffy The Vampire Slayer, I feel so unprepared I think I’m experiencing pain? Whatever, it’s time for me to watch Buffy and feel everything at once.
The Past
I expected to wait a very, very long time before this show would give me any sort of flashback to what happened before “Welcome to the Hellmouth.” Here in the first part of “Becoming,” I realize just how much I really didn’t understand about Angel and Angelus, and how those are two separate entities in a way. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the logistics of it, but while I got that a vampire is a demon living inside a person’s body, I didn’t understand what the curse did to Angel exactly. It’s why I said that I thought Angel deserved what he got in my review of “Innocence.”
There’s still a weird line here that I’m unsure of. I don’t know that it’s perfectly fine to just say that Angel shouldn’t be held responsible for anything, only because then that leaves his victims without closure or catharsis forever. Like, literally, they will never get closure at all. At the same time, I can also see what Angel was like, what he was like once he became Angelus, and then how awful it is that the curse makes Angel suffer for what the demon essentially did.
First things first: David Boreanaz has a horrific Irish accent. It’s awful. Now that I’ve got that out of the way, can we also talk about how I did not pick up on the fact that Darla is played by Julie Benz, who was Rita on Dexter? That is amazing to me. Anyway, I worried that all we would get is the cheesiest replication of Ireland in 1753. I WANTED MORE. Lucky, Whedon chooses to intersperse most of “Becoming, Part One” with moments from the past. All of these scenes are meant to give us a portrait of the kind of person Angel chose to be. For a while, though, we see Angelus. We see him meet Drusilla for the first time in London. We see him in Romania on the exact day he regains his soul and learns he will remember and feel every thing he did as Angelus. While I’m still curious to learn what happens in the 98 years prior to the next flashback, I was sad to see that Angel had given up on becoming part of society in any sense.
And look, I need to do this: this show does the concept of a non-human-eating vampire so much better than Twilight. I much prefer the idea that Angel suffers for fighting his nature than to one where everything is perfect and ordered and neat and cute and full of mountain lion snacks. I just don’t believe it at all! It’s in this state that Angel meets a demon called the Whistler. I don’t understand why this particular demon does what he does, and I imagine the season finale will answer that in some way. But in perhaps the most shocking (AND FANTASTIC) flashback of the bunch, the Whistler takes Angel to see Buffy at Hemery High on the day she finds out she is the Slayer. Oh my god, this is the best thing ever. BUFFY IS SO ADORABLE. Also, she is just like Cordelia. Also, she is UTTERLY DESTROYED BY FINDING OUT SHE IS THE SLAYER because of the strain it puts on her family. It’s so sad, almost to the point that I wish that she wasn’t made the Slayer. Though I will say I am glad that she got rid of that jacket. That thing was hideous.
The point of all this, though, is that Angel made a very specific choice to come to Sunnydale. He wanted to become someone who meant something, who did something good. It was part of the process to forgive himself, and it explains why he was so interested in Buffy from the start. Of course, it’s fascinating to contrast this with the choice he makes in “Becoming, Part One” as Angelus.
The Present
The year is coming to a close, and it’s so obvious to me that this is a set-up for a finale. I’m scared. At this point, I know that Buffy was pretty damn popular. For me, that means I have to accept that this finale does not have to have a singular narrative that’s neatly wrapped up like it was in season one. There might be a cliffhanger. There might be tons of drama. There might be death. The one thing I was sure of, though, was that this first part of the finale is leading to the showdown between Angeles and Buffy. It’s what this whole season is leading to. The pieces are starting to appear: there’s the stone block with some sort of secret inside; the Scoobies prepare for finals; Angelus is preparing for the end; and Drusilla and Spike are getting restless.
There are two huge turning points in this episode. The first comes when Buffy discovers the yellow floppy disk containing the method of cursing Angel again. True story: I totally thought that after Buffy missed it the first time, it would just stay there. Because let’s be honest: Whedon would do something like that, to hide a solution a foot away from our heroine and let it waste away because he lives off of my suffering. But it’s something that these characters never even considered as a possibility and suddenly, now they have to account for it.
I wasn’t surprised that the Scoobies argued so intensely about what to do with it. The issue of Angel versus Angelus is incredibly complex and morally confusing, even if it seems easy enough for Xander and Cordelia to choose to kill him. But the choice really should be left to Buffy, should it not? I’m glad she agrees to keep it as a back-up plan in case she fails, but I think I’m more excited to see if Willow actually uses some dark magic. WHAT IS SHE BECOMES A TECHNO-PAGAN IN JENNY’S PLACE? oh my god SEASON THREE. Make this a reality!
Over at the Mansion of Vampires, the acquisition of the stone block gives Angelus his own endgame: encased inside is Acathla, a demon who can suck the entire world into Hell. You know what’s most frightening about it? I have no fucking clue why Angel would want to wipe out the whole of human existence aside from the fact that he can. Like, that is literally how detached Angelus is from reality. DRUSILLA, WHY ARE YOU ON BOARD WITH THIS? Won’t you go to hell too?
It’s okay, though, because the Scoobies have a secret weapon: KENDRA HAS RETURNED! OH MY GOD YES!!!! And not only that, she’s brought a bad ass sword and a much more believable accent. Imagine that! Of course, that boost lasts just a few minutes because then a vampire self-immolates in a classroom during an exam Buffy and Willow are taking. Okay, seriously, how does that happen and the entire town does not revolt in response? Someone just BURNED OUT OF EXISTENCE IN FRONT OF AN ENTIRE CLASSROOM. Wow, the citizens of Sunnydale are literally the most in-denial people in all of existence. Unfortunately, and I did not catch it at the time, but the act was a total set-up by Angel and Buffy fell right into it. I get why she did, too, especially since this entire episode was one giant hint that Buffy and Angel would fight their big finale battle.
Nope. It was a trick to get Buffy away from the library so Angel could get what he really wants: Giles. HE IS THE ONE MOST QUALIFIED TO AWAKEN ACTHLA. J F C HELP ME WHAT THE FUCK.
I had a feeling that Kendra couldn’t last much longer than the second season, so I wasn’t all that surprised that she was killed. How Drusilla killed her was shocking, though. Drusilla can hypnotize people as well? GREAT! THAT’S TOTALLY ANOTHER FACTOR I WANTED TO CONSIDER. I was sad to see Kendra go because I liked her so much. But the whole situation is just so horrific. Xander has a broken hand (OH MY GOD THAT SCENE WAS TOO MUCH), Willow is buried under a bookshelf, and who knows where Cordelia is.
And yet, as if all of this chaos is just child’s play, Whedon ends this with another twist that I can barely handle: Buffy has a gun pointed at her by what sounds like a police officer. So the police are going to think she did this.
To be continued? Goddamn it. I knew it was coming, and it doesn’t make me any less frustrated. SO UNPREPARED.
What did Darla see in him? Did she watch him for a while beforehand or was it a sudden feeling?
Awesome, ancient things! Is it a real script saying real things?
Giles, never delay this sort of thing! You live in a horror show.
So darling, these five.
Chance, fate? This sudden moment, that changes the course of things.
Bad wig.
To Buffy, it's all her fault. Xander has a point, but he has lost perspective if he thinks that of Buffy and Giles. Buffy's not trying to just forget anything ever happened and be blissfully happy. That wouldn't happen even if she got Angel back! She genuinely doesn't know what to do, and she doesn't want Willow to risk herself, and she wants to bring Angel back (because it's her fault, to her, that he lost his soul and killed Miss Calendar.) This is part of wanting to make up for her actions, at least to Angel, and to the world because she believes he'll do good in it.
Kendra! I know what happens to you so I'm not as happy as I would be.
This gives Buffy a reason to tip in favor of the Restoration and even ask Willow to put herself in danger -as she always does, heroically, which Buffy has come to accept. It's not her only reason, but it's a good reason and a good deciding factor. She's right.
I prefer to believe Angel "fell in empathy with Buffy," to quote this spoilery B/A meta by Lettered, formerly known as TKP:
http://lettered.livejournal.com/16982.html
This is because I'd rather have a positive view and I'd be moved too if I were in his place.
Angel's really into this apocalypse thing, isn't he?
How'd he convince her to commit suicide with pseudoreligious overtones? He's not the Master. Though he was to have been at the Master's side.
It was a trap, as in the pilot. Like with other things however, it's more complicated this time around. Kendra was there just in case. Whose Slayer senses conveniently don't work for the plot. Xander's broken his arm again. More pilot parallels.
I don't think I got that line until last year.
The first time we see Drusilla as a badass, and I can't be happy about it. I'll never be happy about it.
How is it that they play the love theme here? Maybe that's a misnomer, and it should really be called the loss theme as in one talk given at a Buffy conference.
What did Darla see in him? Did she watch him for a while beforehand or was it a sudden feeling?
Awesome, ancient things! Is it a real script saying real things?
Giles, never delay this sort of thing! You live in a horror show.
So darling, these five.
Chance, fate? This sudden moment, that changes the course of things.
Bad wig.
To Buffy, it's all her fault. Xander has a point, but he has lost perspective if he thinks that of Buffy and Giles. Buffy's not trying to just forget anything ever happened and be blissfully happy. That wouldn't happen even if she got Angel back! She genuinely doesn't know what to do, and she doesn't want Willow to risk herself, and she wants to bring Angel back (because it's her fault, to her, that he lost his soul and killed Miss Calendar.) This is part of wanting to make up for her actions, at least to Angel, and to the world because she believes he'll do good in it.
Kendra! I know what happens to you so I'm not as happy as I would be.
This gives Buffy a reason to tip in favor of the Restoration and even ask Willow to put herself in danger -as she always does, heroically, which Buffy has come to accept. It's not her only reason, but it's a good reason and a good deciding factor. She's right.
I prefer to believe Angel "fell in empathy with Buffy," to quote this spoilery B/A meta by Lettered, formerly known as TKP:
http://lettered.livejournal.com/16982.html
This is because I'd rather have a positive view and I'd be moved too if I were in his place.
Angel's really into this apocalypse thing, isn't he?
How'd he convince her to commit suicide with pseudoreligious overtones? He's not the Master. Though he was to have been at the Master's side.
It was a trap, as in the pilot. Like with other things however, it's more complicated this time around. Kendra was there just in case. Whose Slayer senses conveniently don't work for the plot. Xander's broken his arm again. More pilot parallels.
I don't think I got that line until last year.
The first time we see Drusilla as a badass, and I can't be happy about it. I'll never be happy about it.
How is it that they play the love theme here? Maybe that's a misnomer, and it should really be called the loss theme as in one talk given at a Buffy conference.
I really like the "fell in empathy" explaination, because Angel and Buffy understand each other on such a deep level naq guvf vf jul obgu pna arire yrg gur bgure bar tb. Gurer vf abbar gurl pna or fb pbaarpgrq gb.
I could get behind "fell in empathy"
I am just so conflicted about Buffy/Angel. And the more I think about it the more conflicted I get. They were my first OTP. But I can also read them as subversive, especially in light of Twilight. And really I just love examining their relationship and trying to figure out what's going on there. It's not as simple as "star-crossed forever love" but I think there is something real there.
I've been conflicted too. Some shippers believe it's 'star-crossed forever love,' and some nonshippers who don't like the pairing believe that for it to not be 'star-crossed forever love' it has to be a cautionary tale and bad overall to justify it's presence as a good addition to the story. I, like everyone else, have my preferences and then I try to justify them, and see if the justifications hold up – at least this is what I think the process is like for others. I believe it's real, and not a fantasy of first love or fairytale love or Romeo and Juliet doomed love that shouldn't have happened, even if there are some elements of all these things in it. So for me it does subvert those three things, it is an antiromance story as romance stories go (that I've seen), but that is not to say anti love or anti B/A love.
The essay says it better than I am.
How'd he convince her to commit suicide with pseudoreligious overtones? He's not the Master.
My guess? It wasn't Angel that persuaded her to kill herself. Who else do we know who has such strong psychic powers that she can hypnotise people into just letting themselves be killed?
I think he did convince her, vamps have been portrayed as mostly just followers who need a strong personality to lead them. The Master, Spike, Darla and Drusilla and now Angelus. Don't forget that Angelus is the closest thing vampires have to a celebrity, he was a massively prolific serial killer in his day, then he disappears all of a sudden but people are still talking about all the horrible (awesome to vampires though) stuff he did. Now he's back and the younger vamps are eager to do whatever he wants.
Well I guess there's always someone who might do that type of stuff.
Now I've reminded myself of what I said a few days ago. Where were the minions in between Passion and now?
That's a cool idea.
The Good:
We finally get Angel flashbacks!
We also get a nice flashback of Buffy being called and her early days slaying
Kendra's back!
I really like Whistler's monologues and how they're used to frame the episode
Puppet theater with fishsticks!
Cordy/Xander and Wiloow/Oz are both adorable in the cafeteria scene
Buffy found the floppy with the Restoration Ritual on it
"Someone wasn't worthy"
The Bad:
The gang's fight is hard to watch, especially because I think everyone has valid concerns but bad ways of expressing them.
Buffy walked into a trap again
Willow's attempt at re-ensouling Angel got interrupted
Giles got kidnapped
Kendra died 🙁
The Ugly:
What is that Irish accent, Boreanaz?
Buffy mocks Kendra's accent again
Angel has been stalking Buffy since she was called. That's creepy.
Yeah that scene of him 'falling in love, as he sees what's basically a child, sucking a lollipop, at her most childlike, is never not utterly creepy as hell…
And he's spying on her, from a blacked out vehicle, parked outside her schoolyard. That is just so, so wrong. That is one of the biggest reasons why I despise the Buffy/Angel pairing – the set-up is so freakishly pedo-like that I am grossed out beyond anything.
Yeah, the lollipop is what tips it over the edge into full-on Lolita overtones. Like FUCK WHAT IS THIS, I AM DISGUSTED.
So much word to the creepiness. Because it is.
When I think of "bad Irish accents," David Boreanz and Julia Roberts are neck-and-neck.
Boreanaz: Don't really care. It's not as if Whedon planned to give him a backstory scene when he first wrote him in. (Or did he?)
Roberts: Fucking terrible. Not even bothering with an Irish actress, just rage.
Yeah. The revelation that Angel has been stalking Buffy is part of the reason why I don't full on ship Angel/Buffy. I think this episode makes it pretty clear that to Angel, Buffy is symbolic of hope and the possibility of becoming a better person. So yeah. It's hard for me to think of them as True Love, you know?
Same here! The whole "this is your destiny, and she's it" thing just raises major stinkeye from me.
(just to clarify, I have zero problems with the idea of love at first sight, I've bought it in other stories but here it seems like they never really get beyond seeing an idea of each other – the young girl with a weighty destiny, the vampire tortured by his own misdeeds and trying to atone. There's literally no conflict in their relationship that comes from their characters rather than from an external source i.e. her Slayer-ness, his being a vampire, and that makes the True Love bit really hard to buy)
I definitely agree about them never getting past "love at first sight". It's not the healthiest of relationships. But I also think that's a realistic first relationship that a lot of people can relate to.
I have a lot of feelings about them and thinking about it just gives me more feelings. There are so many ways to look at their relationship.
I also think that's a realistic first relationship that a lot of people can relate to.
Definitely. I can certainly see the appeal as a "first relationship" thing, what makes it frustrating is that gurl xrrc pvepyvat onpx gb vg fb bsgra. V zrna, gurl tb sebz "V svaq lbh vagevthvat naq ubg" gb "guvf vf GEHR YBIR" jura fur'f bayl 16, naq vg'f sehfgengvat gung fur arire ernyyl yrgf gung tb rira jura fur'f byqre – naq arvgure qbrf ur.
Natry 1.04 "V Jvyy Erzrzore Lbh" whfg nofbyhgryl QRFGEBLF zr, gubhtu.
Lrf, vg'f gur jnl gung fubj xrrcf pvepyvat onpx gb vg naq arire frrzf gb yrg vg tb. Sbe tbbqarff fnxr, vg jnf haarprffnel naq qvqa'g rira znxr punenpgre frafr, gur jnl gurl cbccrq Natry onpx va sbe gubfr zbzragf va F5 naq F7 bs OgIF. Gur gbar, gur punenpgref… vg qvqa'g jbex – rfcrpvnyyl sbe jngpuref bs gur Natry frevrf. Fb sehfgengvat!
V pna xvaq bs trg gur F5 guvat rfcrpvnyyl pbafvqrevat gur pvephzfgnaprf (fur'q whfg ybfg ure zbgure, naq pbzsbeg sebz fbzrbar snzvyvne jnf bs pbhefr jrypbzr) ohg gur ovt ebznagvp fnl-uryyb-jvgu-lbhe-gbathr erhavba va F7 whfg unq zr tbvat *ebyyrlrf*.
completely agree
Thu. Lrffff. Ohssl naq Natry unq obgu tebja fb zhpu nf crbcyr fvapr Ohssl frnfba 2, gurl gurl znqr nofbyhgryl ab frafr nf n cbgragvny pbhcyr fb gur jubyr Gehr Ybir guvat jnf pbzcyrgryl fghcvq naq jnf boivbhfyl cnaqrevat gb snaf.
It just sort of bugs me that it recasts the whole Buffy/Angel relationship as this thing that put Angel on his path. Like, he didn't fall in love with her, he fell in love with what she represented and what that means to him. I mean, this is still Buffy's show, so it's not quite as apparent as it would be if Angel were the protagonist. She definitely has agency and a life and a purpose outside their relationship which helps salvage things for me. But to him she's a means to an end, a stepping stone to the person he can become.
I don't think I'm being entirely articulate. I still sort of ship Buffy/Angel as a great high school romance and first love thing (from her perspective). She got as growth out of it as he did, which evens things out. But I can't see them as "true love" and it recasts the entirety of season 1 in a pretty icky light
No that's an excellent way of putting it. And weirdly enough I never put it together that that's what the show was trying to say about their relationship. I just knew I didn't like it and didn't really put a ton of thought into why.
IA 100%
I wish I had ALL THE UPVOTES to give to this comment.
That accent was Irish!
My favourite description of a bad Irish accent is when someone said "it's so bad, it makes David Boreanaz fbhaq yvxr Tyraa Dhvaa." (Sorry about the rot13, but better safe than sorry!)
Thats brilliant! I may have to steal it
<3 and :'( for Tyraa Dhvaa though
Oh Kendra.
I am just numb at this point. There is nothing this show could do to emotionally break me further. Jesus, this is just so bleak. I mean, it always had a dark edge to it, but recently it’s just like one horrible disaster after another.
So…putting aside the plotline with the stone demon for a second…they finally found Angel’s ‘cure’.
I…I’m gonna have to say something that I really never thought I would. I…oh god I can’t believe I’m about to say this…I agree with Xander.
I don’t really want them to cure Angel. Look, I love Buffy, and I want her to be happy. I know Jenny wanted that too. I know that what vamp!Angel does isn’t really the fault of regular Angel. Blaming him for his actions is like blaming a sleepwalker for a murder – sure they technically did it, but they can’t really be held responsible. Killing him won’t bring back any of the people he’s killed anyway, and serves no purpose beyond blind revenge. There’s a really good solid argument for why Angel should be re-cursed and allowed to live as the man he once was.
I don’t care. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – I’m not interested in being logical or fair. Angel brutally murdered Jenny Calendar and I want him to SUFFER for that. No amount of mitigating circumstance is going to change that, so I spent this episode right alongside Xander, baying for blood.
It’s going to take a whole fucking lot for me to ever forgive him.
Right now I don’t have much else to say about this episode. At this point in the show, where I’m really involved in it but everything’s going wrong for everyone, it’s almost exhausting to watch. I just spent the whole thing livid with fear for all the characters. At the end, pretty much everyone’s fate is uncertain – Willow, Xander, Cordy…and as Giles gets dragged off by Drusilla, all I could think was…
Oh god please no. Not Giles. Not Giles too.
Please.
"It’s going to take a whole fucking lot for me to ever forgive him. "
Well, that's a step in the right direction from:
"I. Will. Never. Ever. Forgive. Him."
😉
I…no…DAMN IT.
Those flashbacks did NOT make me feel a little bit sorry for him. AT ALL. NOT EVEN A LITTLE.
I STILL HATE HIM COMPLETELY.
I WILL JOIN YOU ON YOUR ANGEL HATE CRUSADE
I WILL JOIN YOU IN YOUR ANGEL HATE TOO. AND THOSE FLASHBACKS MAKE ME DISLIKE HIM EVEN MORE. ESPECIALLY THE WATCHING-BUFFY-AT-15 (SERIOUSLY, FIFTEEN?) ONE. HAAAAAAAAAAAATE.
(the only, ONLY reason why I would even feel sad about him just getting off the show altogether – either dusted or bumped out of town – is because of how awful Buffy herself would feel)
>>>"There is nothing this show could do to emotionally break me further."
"You should not say such things!" </Princess Bride>
"Bu tbq cyrnfr ab. Abg Tvyrf. Abg Tvyrf gbb."
"Gurer vf abguvat guvf fubj pbhyq qb gb rzbgvbanyyl oernx zr shegure."
Bu tbbqarff tenpvbhf, lbh jnaan org?
Rirelobql arrqf gb cercner fbzr frevbhf uhtf sbe ravtzngvpfphyyl… gung Qeh/Wraal fprar vf tbvat gb oernx jung vf yrsg bs ure Tvyrf-ybivat urneg.
Wrfhf Puevfg, lrf, gung frpbaq bar! V jbhyq abg jnag gb or va gur ebbz jvgu ure jura gur fprar cbfg-Natry trggvat fhpxrq vagb uryy fgnegf naq lbh urne Fnenu ZpYnpuyna zheqre bhe fbhyf pbzcyrgryl bhg bs rkvfgrapr.
Gung'f abg whfg zr, evtug? "Shyy bs Tenpr" whfg xvyyf zr.
(Enigmaticagentscully and other first-time watchers should not decypher this. I know there may be an urge, but don't.)
Gung fprar vf cerggl onq, ohg ubarfgyl jura Tvyrf ernyvmrf gung ur jnf gevpxrq… naq gura gur hggre qrfcbaqrapl ur rznangrf jura Knaqre svaqf uvz…
Gung cneg whfg xvyyf zr.
Bu lrf, V whfg pna'g rira yrg zlfrys srry nalguvat gura orpnhfr JNU. NAQ SRRYF. NAQ WBFF JURQBA EHVAF RIRELGUVAT.
Hasbeghangryl gur rzbgvbany vzcnpg bs rafbhyrq!Natry qlvat vf gung rirelbar XABJF ur'f va n fcva bss, fb boivbhfyl ur pbzrf onpx FBZRUBJ.
Ba nabgure gbcvp, lbh whfg xabj gung nyy bs gurfr svefg gvzr ivrjref ner tbvat gb snyy va ybir jvgu gur Bm/Jvyybj ybirobng… naq gura Bm yrnirf.
Naq gura snyy rira zber va ybir jvgu Gnen… jr nyy xabj jung unccraf gura.
Vg'f whfg n ebgngvat pnebhfry bs cnva jvgu Wbff.
Lhc, gur uvgf jvyy whfg xrrc pbzvat. Abg rira jvgu gur qrnguf, ohg nyfb jura Cnexre pbzcyrgryl pehfurf Ohssl naq jura Tvyrf yrnirf va beqre gb znxr Ohssl tebj hc (ubyl onpxsver, Ongzna!) naq bs pbhefr Qnex!Jvyybj naq gura jura Jvyybj ergheaf ohg tbrf vaivfvoyr naq unf gur fxva rngra bss ure obql ol gung ubeevoyr guvat BU NAQ BS PBHEFR JURA PBEQL UNF URE URNEG OEBXRA NAQ GURA NYZBFG QVRF naq jura jr qba'g rira trg gb srry nalguvat nobhg Naln'f qrngu orpnhfr vg'f nyy fb fhqqra naq jura Knaqre yrnirf Naln ng gur nygne naq V pna'g xrrc tbvat orpnhfr V'z cerggl fher jung V'z qbvat abj vf chggvat 10 zber lrnef ba Wbff Jurqba'f yvsr.
V pna guvax bs gur nofbyhgr jbefg bar sbe Znex…
"Orfg zbgure va gur jubyr jvqr jbeyq" Fhzzref.
Yup, not even thinking about that. Just not.
V ubarfgyl srry yvxr ur fubhyq or jnearq nobhg vg va nqinapr. Gbyq gung ur arrqf fbzrbar gurer gb ubyq uvf unaq be fbzrguvat? Orpnhfr jura Naln qbrf ure fcrrpu nobhg whfg abg haqrefgnaqvat, V oernx pbzcyrgryl naq GI uneqyl rire oernxf zr.
V'ir ARIRE pevrq jngpuvat n gi fubj. RIRE.
Naq Naln znqr zr pel. Gung fprar jvgu Naln fgehttyvat gb haqrefgnaq znqr zr jrrc yvxr n gval onol… V pna'g rkcynva ubj njshy naq flzcngurgvp vg znqr zr srry orpnhfr V jnf gung crefba. Ng zl svefg shareny jura V jnf 15 V jnf gung rknpg crefba; V whfg qvqa'g haqrefgnaq jul Ze. Wnl pbhyq whfg or gnyxvat gb hf bar qnl naq abg fgvyy or gurer gur arkg.
Znex jvyy arrq pnercnpxntrf znvyrq gb uvz be FBZRGUVAT…
Ubarfgyl, V'z fgvyy gung crefba.
"naq ab bar jvyy rkcynva gb zr jul."
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrabfcRmbf1qdis3c.gif">
V guvax gur orfg cneg nobhg gung rcvfbqr vf gur fvzcyr snpg gung gurer vf ab zhfvp. Abg n fvatyr cuenfr, abg rira bar fbyvgnel abgr.
Vg znxrf gur rcvfbqr frrz fb zhpu zber enj naq erny, gurer vfa'g nal fhpu guvat nf onpxtebhaq zhfvp va erny yvsr.
Nyfb, cresrpg tvs bs Gra pelvat vf cresrpg.
V crefbanyyl oryvrir "gur obql" gb or Wbff'f orfg qverpgvat va uvf pnerre. Vs abg, gura ng yrnfg nzbat uvf orfg. Gung rcvfbqr vf tbvat gb oernx uvz.
Y'all are cruel, cruel people. I was tense the other day for only three rot13 comments on my "filler episode" post and here poor scully has a whole thread.
Gung'f gur fprar jurer V fgneg pelvat hapbagebyynoyl. Yvxr… fcbagnarbhf yrnxvat bhg zl snpr, ertneqyrff bs cerivbhf zbbq be srryvatf, naq ertneqyrff bs ubj zhpu V xabj gung vg'f nobhg gb unccra.
Sbe fbzr ernfba V nyjnlf sbetrg gung Naln qvrf. V zhfg whfg pbzcyrgryl oybpx vg bhg bs zl zvaq. V'ir frra vg, V'ir frra crbcyr zragvba vg, naq lrg rirel gvzr fbzrbar zragvbaf vg ntnva V'z gnxra pbzcyrgryl ol fhecevfr. V thrff gung jnf whfg gur bar gvzr gung Wbff oebxr zr fb pbzcyrgryl gung zl oenva pnaabg unaqyr vg. V thnenagrr gung V'yy unir sbetbggra vg ntnva ol gur gvzr vg pbzrf nebhaq va guvf erjngpu…
Fbzrgvzrf n fryrpgvir zrzbel pna or n tbbq guvat. Gurer ner frireny pnaba zbzragf sebz inevbhf fubjf gung V jngpu jurer V whfg fnl "Qryrgr, cyrnfr qryrgr."
Guvf oernxf zl urneg rirel qnza gvzr.
Lrf, gung fbat oevtf bhg gur grnef rirel gvzr naq gur jnl Ohssl pevrf. Fbb fnq!
bu ab… v sbetbg nobhg gung bar. 🙁
Bu fb zhpu! Vg oernxf zl urneg naq V xabj vg'f pbzvat!
Ernqvat guvf oernxf zl urneg.
LBH TRG N OEBXRA URNEG NAQ LBH TRG N OEBXRA URNEG! RIRELOBQL TRGF N OEBXRA URNEG!
giggle-sobbing here.
Ng yrnfg arkg rcvfbqr jr trg Tvyrf' onqnff dhbgr bs gur lrne!
"Lbh zhfg cersbez gur evghny…va n ghgh. Cvyybpx!"
Well, if he does get his soul he will suffer. That was the point of the curse. He won't really suffer if he dies.
Ohg ur jvyy fhssre, naq abg bayl sebz uvf erfbhyzrag.
Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. If he remains Angelus and/or dies, he won't ever suffer for what he did. Only Angel can suffer, because only Angel has the soul/conscience that makes him give a shit.
Oh all right I maybe didn't think that through.
You guys are all right of course. You know what? If getting his soul back makes him suffer, I'm down with it.
Soul him up. Just maybe…kick his ass a little first?
Angel always suffers…
The only time he didn't, he lost his soul.
But if he dies then he's not a risk to anybody ever again. CONUNDRUM.
This is true. I guess it would depend on whether he'd be able to lose his soul again, and what the people who are making the decision think about that. I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to take the risk, and I can see the argument that he'd never be perfectly happy knowing what he did after being so.
Indeed, if they resouled him, and if he could then lose his soul in the same way again, he would then have to continue living, not only knowing every awful thing he ever did, but knowing that he can't ever allow himself to feel happy or forgive himself, because then he'll lose his soul and commit even more atrocities.
It's an excellent punishment because it forces him to be complicit in his own punishment – he has to make sure to be miserable all the time, he can't let his guard down even once and just relax.
Of course, not telling him originally that he has to stay sad or else lose the soul sortof negates it's effectiveness!
Vg qbrf! Gubhtu znlor vg jnf fb ur jbhyqa'g or noyr gb trg evq bs vg. Ur qvq gel gb, naq gurl qba'g jnag uvz gb rfpncr.
Bar guvat gung ab bar fubhyq rire fnl va ertneqf gb n Wbff Jurqba fubj: "Gurer vf abguvat guvf fubj pbhyq qb gb rzbgvbanyyl oernx zr shegure."
V xabj, evtug? Vg'f yvxr fnlvat "V unir n onq srryvat nobhg guvf" va gur Fgne Jnef havirefr.
Be orvat Knaqre naq fnlvat "Jung pbhyq cbffvoyl tb jebat?"
Juvpu rcvfbqr jnf gung ol gur jnl?
Gung jnf Fpubby Uneq. Naq fvapr vg yrq gb Fcvxr, V'z abg ernyyl pbzcynvavat
V qba'g xabj, V whfg xabj gurl jrer va gur fpubbylneq (yrnivat) naq Ohssl naq Jvyybj vzzrqvngryl grnzrq hc ba uvz.
Qvqa'g ur nafjre fbzrguvat gb gur grezf bs "Abguvat vagrerfgvat rire unccraf urer?"
Znlor jvgu n fznfu-phg gb Fcvxr?
Pyrneyl, gurer vf n a-gu er-jngpu va beqre.
Be "V'yy or evtug onpx" va n ubeebe.
GUVF!
Vg'f yvxr fnlvat "vg pna'g trg nal jbefr".
Bayl fbzrbar jub unf abg wrg rkcrevraprq gur shyy pncnpvgl bs Wbff'f grne wrexref pna guvax gung.
Vg pna nyjnlf trg jbefr naq vg jvyy, zhpu jbefr.
I just want to hold you through the computer screen until it all feels better. Good god.
"There is nothing this show could do to emotionally break me further. "
That's a dangerous statement to make. You've got the second half of this finale and another five seasons to go yet.
Oh god, I really shouldn't have said that, should I?
I was not thinking at all. Hold me.
Growing up with Buffy should actually prove to be an interesting field of study for psychoanalysts.
I've grown accustomed to being broken over and over again. Have fun! (No really, it's the best. Or maybe it's the inner head-case speaking now, I don't know.) But you have no idea …
(some uhm supernnatural spoilers in this)
Naq gb guvax gung Ohssl vf cerggl zhpu xvaqretneqra va pbzcnevfbaf gb gur urnegoernxvat cnva pnhfrq ol jngpuvat Fhcreangheny…
V zrna, jvgu obgu fubjf lbh xabj gung lbh fubhyqa'g trg nggnpurq gb crbcyr, ohg ng yrnfg Jurqba yrgf lbh xrrc fbzr bs gur erpheevat punenpgref gung lbh ybir…
Lrf, ohg ur fher ybirf gb oernx lbhe urneg ba bgure yriryf … be whfg gjrnx ng vg n yvggyr ovg. Anu, ur'f nyevtug.
Ru, rirelbar whfg trgf fperjrq bire ba Fhcreangheny. Naq fvapr V qba'g pner nobhg gurz, vg'f abg cnvashy.
Yeah, I've come to expect it from a quality TV show. If it doesn't break my heart, I lose interest
I think you're right. Oh god …
*HUGS*
<img src="http://i40.tinypic.com/2dwe25s.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
It's okay. It'll all be okay.*
*This statement may not be factual.
D:
anything but walter
The Bishops have some kind of special skill when it comes to heartbreaking hugs.
<img src="http://i43.tinypic.com/1zlesnp.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
stooooooop
think happy hugs, think happy hugs
<img src="http://i43.tinypic.com/23m8n6o.gif">
Well now I'm sad cause that's future!Olivia and future!Walter 🙁
(Oh god, why are none of my Fringe hug gifs happy? This is seriously the closest I have to not sad)
<img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/f0ooyx.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
Oh, Walter. <3
I know. I've now decided that I will look for happy hugging moments during my rewatch so that I can have more than one (still sad) happy Fringe hug.
You need the Olivia/Peter hug at the end of LSD.
So do the Adamas:
<img src="http://www.frak-that.com/miniseries/images/bsgmini_cap1919.jpg" width="416" height="234" />
Damn you and your amazing Fringe gifs! They're giving me the sads! Which this person's computer just autocorrected to dads!
Maybe I'll start calling you Amelia Pond.
<img src="http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l0bqkre4Kv1qb0osvo1_500.png">
The Doctor: You know when grown ups tell you everything’s gonna be fine, and you think they’re probably lying to make you feel better?
Amelia: Yes…
The Doctor: Everything’s gonna be fine.
NEVER read the comics which come after the TV series. Seriously, I still live in denial about what happened and I refuse to read any more.
Zz. Lrf. V unir gurz, gurl'er fgnpxrq hc ba zl pbssrr gnoyr, V ERSHFR GB ERNQ GUNG VFFHR BE NAL NSGRE VG.
Vs V qba'g ernq gurz, vg arire unccrarq, evtug? EVTUG?!?!
V unira'g ernq gurz, ohg V unir frra nyyhfvbaf… vfa'g Tvyrf qrnq?
AB UR VF ABG QRNQ ORPNHFR GUBFR VFFHRF QB ABG RKVFG.
V frr… znxrf pbzcyrgr naq hggre frafr gb zr. 🙂
Zvaq vs V wbva lbhe obng ba q'Avyr? Vg frrzf yvxr n ybiryl cynpr.
Oh, sure, it's an excellent cruise. 😀
I am…genuinely fascinated to know what your conversation on Rot13 was to lead up to that comment.
Darn it.
I think it's safe to tell you we're cruising down de'Nile.
I always love looking at conversations like that.
"Buffy and Angel's situation breaks my heart."
"Rot13"
"Rot13"
"Rot13"
"How did they get that bear into the refridgerator, anyway?"
loool
Oh god. My poor SO is trying to study, so here I am, just readin' comments, minding my own business, thinking this is Becoming, Part 1, so the comments are going to be completely depressing. Then I read this. Full on irrational belly laughter and glaring from the other side of the couch ensues.
HUGE spoilers for comic AND show (as well as Firefly/Serenity) ahoy in the rot13.
Lrnu, Tvyrf jnf xvyyrq.
V'yy xrrc ernqvat gurz (synjrq nf gurl ner, V'z gbb bofrffrq jvgu gur punenpgref gb fgbc), ohg V guvax vg jnf n onq fgbel qrpvfvba, naq juvyr Jurqba naq pb. qba'g gbff onq fgbel qrpvfvbaf nebhaq BSGRA, V nyfb svaq gung gurl'er ernyyl onq jvgu hfvat punenpgre qrnguf nf chapghngvba.
Fubpx inyhr vf abg nyjnlf jbegu vg, naq juvyr qrnguf yvxr Wblpr'f jrer unaqyrq ornhgvshyyl, qrnguf yvxr Naln'f, Furcureq'f, naq Jnfu'f unccra nyy gbb znggre-bs-snpgyl naq sbe yvggyr ernfba. Naln nyzbfg qvrf bss-fperra, sbe shpx'f fnxr, naq vg unccraf fb dhvpxyl naq jvgu yvggyr gb ab erny vzcnpg ba nalbar be nalguvat. Sbe fhpu n znwbe punenpgre, lbh'q guvax jr'q trg zber guna n yvggyr fvqrone nobhg vg. V guvax Knaqre yrnivat ure ng gur nygne jnf nyernql na BBP qrpvfvba (frnfbaf 6 naq 7 jrer jvyqyl harira, naq gur ybj cbvagf jrer va znal pnfrf senhtug jvgu BBP jnyyonatref, RFCRPVNYYL 7, ohg jr'yy pebff gung hasbeghangr oevqtr jura jr pbzr gb vg), naq gur snpg gung ur bs nyy crbcyr oneryl npxabjyrqtrf ure qrngu znxrf zr jnag gb uvg gur jevgref n yvggyr ovg, unun.
Jnfu, gubhtu, vf gur bar V svaq zbfg hasbetvinoyr. Gurer vf AB ERNFBA gung arrqf gb unccra bgure guna gb or gentvp naq hcfrg gur nhqvrapr. Gurer jnf ab ohvyq gb vg, vg qbrfa'g freir nf n pngnylfg sbe nalguvat; vg qbrf nofbyhgryl abguvat. V xabj qrngu vf fbzrgvzrf pehry naq zrnavatyrff naq fhqqra va gur erny jbeyq, ohg va svpgvba rirelguvat arrqf gb <v>qb</v> fbzrguvat. V fhccbfr na nethzrag pbhyq or znqr gung vg qbrf va gung vg nssrpgf gur nhqvrapr rzbgvbanyyl, ohg vg fgvyy srryf cbvagyrff. Rira Wbff ertergf gung bar; vs V erzrzore pbeerpgyl, ng fbzr cnary be fbzrguvat ur fnvq gung ur jvfurf ur unqa'g qbar vg, naq gung vs Sversyl rire znxrf fbzr xvaq bs zvenphybhf erghea, Freravgl jbhyq or znqr cnegvnyyl aba-pnaba va beqre gb trg Jnfu onpx. Qba'g gnxr zl jbeq sbe vg, gubhtu, nf zl zrzbel ynpxf pvgngvbaf, unun.
Jurgure Tvyrf' qrngu jvyy npghnyyl or znqr jbegujuvyr be abg erznvaf gb or frra; bar bs gur ernfbaf Wbff znqr gur qrpvfvba gb xvyy uvz jnf gb frg cybg evccyrf tbvat, naq orpnhfr ur sryg Tvyrf qvqa'g 'jbex' va gur pbzvpf gur jnl ur qvq va gur fubj. Rvgure jnl, gubhtu, V guvax vg'f n jnfgr bs cbgragvny.
Tvyrf' qrngu unf orra n pehpvny rirag, cebivqvat zbfg bs gur cybg sbe Natry & Snvgu naq qrcevivat Ohssl bs ure erznvavat cneragny svther. Vg znxrf n terng qrny bs frafr, zhpu yvxr gur qrnguf bs Fvevhf naq Qhzoyrqber va Uneel Cbggre.
HERE IS ONE FROM THE ADAMAS:
<img src="http://www.frak-that.com/miniseries/images/bsgmini_cap1919.jpg" width="480" height="270" />
Yeah, but the whole point is if they kill him he won't suffer, because Angelus doesn't give a fuck that he killed Jenny. Angel, however, would. If they re-soul him, he'd feel awful for killing, and extra awful for killing a friend.
It's a question of what exactly the line is between justice and vengeance.
That's a great way to put it.
Yes, especially because which option is vengeance? From Xander kiling him'd be a mixture of both, and I do believe self-satisfaction, because as he said in Passion, he hated Angel before anyone else did, but not for their reasons. I think it does give him satisfaction to think the others now agree with him about killing Angel and that's part of why he's so angry he'd pretend to himself that Giles and Buffy don't care about what Angel did soulless at the idea that they won't. He's not happy any of it's happened, but he took some self-righteous satisfaction from everyone now seeing things his way (to an extent.) That's what makes his side complex.
For the Romani, souling him was vengeance and justice was irrelevant.
To be fair, Cordy and Kendra wanted him killed too, so not everybody who felt that way was butthurt about Buffy not dating them. Or maybe they were.
Also my non-trolling answer to all this, just in case anyone cares is that I am practical before anything else and if it worked Jenny's spell is definitely the easiest way to deal with Angel, so it gets my vote with slaying as a back up. Fewer people being murdered is more important than my or anyone else's feelings.
I never said Cordelia and Kendra wanted him dead out of irrelevant reasons. Also, until rewatching I forgoot that Cordelia doesn't come down on any side. She thinks it's good they've got the curse, and then that Xander has a point. Then the debate turns into a fight and nothing is decided until everyone learns about Acathla and Buffy says to do it.
"It's complicated" is a decent summary.
In the case of the Romani I don't know if personal vengeance and justice is mutually exclusive. They could have done a spell that would have like, physically tortured him for eternity or something. A spell that makes him face up to his crimes to some extent, even if just mentally, qualifies as some kind of justice in my book. The dude in this episode did mention Angelus having to face all of his victims, not just their murdered daughter.
I was thinking of Uncle Enyo, who explicitly said it was about vengeance and not justice. Of course other people of his tribe might think differently, though he made himself sound quite representative. And Angelus having to face all his victims is what will make him suffer so much; it doesn't mean that the spell was intended as justice for all of them. It was to make him suffer. I would have liked to see more of them to clarify and not make them so stereotypical.
"I would have liked to see more of them to clarify and not make them so stereotypical. "
Ok good point.
I do think that some kind of punishment is a part of justice, his suffering would act as preventative and well as punitive. I did like that the girl's father made it about everything Angel's done and not what he did that affected him. There are other kind of punishments they could have given that didn't like fundamentally change him, or they could have just killed him which would have been a way more literal eye for an eye kind of justic. So I dunno, even if they called it that, the effect still doesn't seem to be the same as simple vengeance, there just seems to be more thought in it than that. I don't know if I'm explaining what I mean well.
Please don't use "butthurt" on this site.
Just out of curiosity, what it the reason for that particular term being unacceptable? (Not that I would be terribly inclined to use it in the first place, I just can't think of anything offensive about it off the top of my head.)
I don't know the etymology of the term, but I can come up with what seem to me like reasonable explanations. Many of them deal with sex and/or rape, and if "butthurt" invokes those topics then I would fully understand someone not wanting to hear or read that word.
The comment was reported for "butthurt" and I can easily see that as being a hurtful and even triggering word for some people, so even if there may be other ways to explain the meaning behind "butthurt" (one explanation I came up with was about the saying of having a a stick up one's ass) that wouldn't change the fact that it's still easy to interpret "butthurt" to have a rape connotation. And someone was uncomfortable enough to report the comment, so I asked that term not be used so as to make that person and anyone else discomforted by the word feel more comfortable in the comments of this site.
The definition on Urban Dictionary says some one who doesnt know how to take a joke, and they take the joke like they just took it to the ass. So… yeah.
I've always found it to be a seriously unpleasant word to come across and would be happy to never see it again.
'To' in 'to the ass' in that explanation reads weird to me; I googled the phrase "took it to the ass" out of curiosity and the majority of the links are simply that specific line you quoted ("some one who doesnt know how to take a joke…") so I feel safe in assuming "to the ass" doesn't have a meaning except to be a rephrase of "in the ass." Which definitely connotes sex.
(My point? …uh, vindication. Unhappy vindication. And I suppose grammar nitpicking.)
Yeah, that's what I figured it meant as well. :/
Thank you for the explanation. The only thing I could really think of was spanking, which didn't even seem to make much sense.
Also, just to clarify, I wasn't trying to challenge your decision or anything. I just like to understand the reasoning behind these things so I can extrapolate and avoid making similar mistakes.
Thanks for wanting to make that clear, but no worries – I didn't get that impression from your reply.
Mark uses that same term in his spoiler policy page — I'm not trying to say it should be okay to use (I use it often, but I won't use it on this site if those are the rules), but should somebody alert Mark of this?
Thank you for alerting me to that. Emailed Mark.
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm removing it, but I did want to make the point that while I think we should all continue to be respectful of this sort of stuff, I personally totally get why this makes no sense initially as a gross word.
I was just telling echinodermata that this word was invented on the playground when I was in elementary school. Well, invented relative to us, I suppose, as I clearly was not at the birthplace of the term. It meant you were a sore loser. You got your ass kicked, and that meant your butt hurt. Figuratively because clearly no feet were touching bums in those days. So yeah, all of this is 100% new to me, and I had no clue it had evolved in any way to reflect rape culture.
thank you for ruining that word, Internet.
Yeah sorry about that that connotation had somehow never occurred to me. Will not repeat.
Thank you.
Um… wouldn't the best way to make Angel suffer be to give him his soul back and make him endure the guilt of committing such heinous acts against people he respects and loves? It's not like he's having FUN reliving all the horrors he's committed…
Also, I smell a debate about capital punishment. Oops.
Mostly I think restoring his soul is the best back-up plan they've got, because if Buffy can't kill him, if he's ensouled he'll stop trying to end the world.
Yes, that is the tipping point. Otherwise I don't which is right or wrong.
"Gurer vf abguvat guvf fubj pbhyq qb gb rzbgvbanyyl oernx zr shegure."
Un! Ununununun!!! Zhunununununu!!! *pbhtujurrmr* bj.. gung uheg. 🙂
Fubj bs unaqf bs jub guvaxf ravtzngvpntragfphyyl zvtug punatr gung ghar jura jr frr Natryhf er-phefrq ng gur ynfg frpbaq naq Ohssl'f urnegnpur ng univat gb fgno Natry gb uryy?
Zbaqnl pnaabg pbzr snfg rabhtu.
Vg'f yvxr gur JBEFG CBFFVOYR JNL gb tvir ravtzngvpfphyyl rknpgyl jung fur jnagf.
V unq na rkgen-fgeratgu shyy-obql jvapr ernpgvba ng gung fgngrzrag.
Naq V'z abg rira guvaxvat bs gur arkg Rcvfbqr. V'z guvaxvat bs… bu, gur arkg svir frnfbaf. Cyhf gur ynfg guerr frnfbaf bs Natry.
Lrnu, lbh'er abg jebat.
Gubhtu V qb svaq frnfba 5 bs Natry gb or fbzr bs gur zbfg sha. Vg trgf qnex lrnu, ohg vg nyfb unf zhpu orggre uhzbhe.
Gung fnvq… Serq… *favss*
" There is nothing this show could do to emotionally break me further."
Oh… oh dear.
” There is nothing this show could do to emotionally break me further.”
This is the Jossverse equivalent of going swimming during a thunderstorm in a pool with a lightningrod planted in the middle, while waving a stick of something metal and conduct-y at the sky.
Naq fubhgvat “Nyy tbqf ner onfgneqf!”
Hmmm…that sounds familiar..is that a Discworld quote?
It… may have been what Terry Pratchett would say in such a situation, yes.
Naughty-naughty, y'all. I rot13'd these.
*takes back Worst Mod hat*
*slinks sheepishly away*
Er, the rot13ed part of my comment was never a Discworld quote. (it’s certainly not from any Discworld novel I’ve read, and I’m surprised to find my made-up rubbish treated as a spoiler)
Yeah, the actual Discworld quote is:
Vs pbzcyrgr naq hggre punbf jnf yvtugavat, gura ur'q or gur fbeg gb fgnaq ba n uvyygbc va n guhaqrefgbez jrnevat jrg pbccre nezbhe naq fubhgvat 'Nyy tbqf ner onfgneqf'.
I will un-rot13 your bit.
lol, I am just so immensely flattered that the stupid joke I spent [an embarrassing amount of time] trying to come up with could ever be mistaken for anything that came out of Terry Pratchett's brain 🙂
(and now I have to read the book with the actual quote)
It's from the very first Discworld book!
WHAT. This is what I get for reading in arcs instead of order of publication!
I'm so sorry! I read it as a Discworld reference because of her comment. I'm ashamed!
Oh god, this is so true. Let's look at this rationally for a moment, because aside from the myriad shit that occurs in the meantime, we have this:
– Jngpuvat Znex'f urnegoernx jura Bm naq Jvyybj oernx hc
– Jngpuvat Znex, n irel bcrayl tnl zna, orpbzr wblbhf jura ur ernyvmrf gung gur fubj vf tbvat gb vagebqhpr Gnen nf Jvyybj'f tveysevraq
– Jngpuvat uvz snyy nofbyhgryl urnq bire shpxvat urryf va ybir jvgu gung eryngvbafuvc
– Urnevat uvf tyrr (naq guvf vf onfrq ba gur ernpgvbaf bs tnl sevraqf V unq ng gur gvzr guvf nverq) jura Wbff fnlf SHPX LBH gb gur argjbexf naq tvirf gurz n shyy ba ybir fprar jvgu na vaperqvoyl cnffvbangr xvff
– Jngpuvat uvf urneg oernx ntnva jura Wblpr fhqqrayl, naq jvgubhg ernfba, qvrf.
– Jngpuvat Jvyybj, jub jvyy ab qbhog or uvf snibevgr ng gung cbvag, ernpg gb gung arjf (gung fprar znqr zl pel bu fb tbq qnza uneq, vg jnf orlbaq nyy engvbanyvgl)
– Jngpuvat Znex ernpg jura Gnen trgf shpxvat fubg.
– Ntnva, jngpuvat Znex ernpg jura shpxvat Gnen trgf fubg.
– Naq yrfg jr sbetrg, Jvyybj tbrf shpxvat Natryhf yriry qnex.
I'm pretty sure that's what's going to make Joss rue the day, because I'm pretty sure Mark is going to kill him dead.
Jnvg, V gubhtug gurl qvqa'g xvff hagvy gur rcvfbqr jura Wblpr qvrf.
Lrn, nf V erpnyy gung vf jura gurl shyy ba xvff. Vg jnf zber gur cbvag gung frnfba 6 vf tbvat gb ehva Znex. Zl zrffl fgernz bs pbafpvbhfarff zvfbeqrerq gur riragf. 🙂
Oh boy. Readying ALL THE HUGS for you…
Baying for blood is a really awesome phrase.
I can be sympathetic that living to suffer can definitely be worse than a quick death, but I dunno Angel's already done that for a hundred years and would the death of Jenny alone weigh on his soul the way that a hundred years' worth of murders did the first time he was ensouled? Or would this just be downgraded self loathing.
Basically, I like to say that I agree with Kendra instead of Xander. It sounds better 😉
Baying for blood is a really awesome phrase.
I can be sympathetic to the idea that living to suffer is usually worse than a quick death, but I dunno Angel's already done that for a hundred years and would the death of Jenny alone weigh on his soul the way that a hundred years' worth of murders did the first time he was ensouled? Or would this just be downgraded self loathing on his part? I don't really see that alone as a fitting punishment.
Basically, I like to say that I agree with Kendra instead of Xander. It sounds better 😉
all i'm going to say
is that this is the best comment on the whole site right now.
and i can't even say why
oh my god.
NOW YOU KNOW HOW WE FEEL ALL THE TIME
WHAT WHY.
oh god there's a ton of Rot13 on here already what did I say??
You started your comment by announcing that you are prepared.
V ernyyl ubcr ravtzngvpntragfphyyl vf noyr gb znxr fbzr fbeg bs crnpr jvgu Natry riraghnyyl–sbe ure bja fnxr, orpnhfr jngpuvat svir frnfbaf bs n frevrf jvyy bayl or cher gbegher vs fur fgvyy ungrf gur yrnq guvf zhpu.
Ubarfgyl, vs fur fgvyy srryf guvf jnl jura gur gvzr pbzrf, fur znl or orggre bss whfg fxvccvat gur fcvabss.
Rira vs lbh'er abg sna bs Natry nf n punenpgre, NgF vf jbegu jngpuvat ng yrnfg bapr sbe gur bgure punenpgref (RFCRPVNYYL ZL ONOL PBEQRYVN), fb V'z fher fur'yy svaq fbzrguvat gb rawbl.
Bu, V nterr pbzcyrgryl. Pbeql vf zl snibevgr punenpgre bs nyy, naq V ybir NgF naq cersre vg gb OgIF, rira vs vg’f nethnoyl zber harira. Vg’f whfg gung V crefbanyyl svaq V pnaabg pbagvahr gb jngpu naq rawbl n fubj vs V qrgrfg gur yrnq naq whfg jnag uvz/ure gb qvr(nf bccbfrq gb orvat vaqvssrerag gb uvz be ure), rira vs V yvxr rirelguvat ryfr. V qb ubcr ravtzngvpntragfphyyl raqf hc rawblvat Natry, va fcvgr bs ure pheerag srryvatf sbe gur thl.
V yvxrq NgF n ybg npghnyyl naq nz abg n ovt sna bs Natry uvzfrys. Jryy, abj gung V guvax nobhg vg, V'z abg n ovt sna bs Ohssl/Natry. V yvxr obgu bs gurz orggre ba gurve bja. Gur pbafgnag onpx naq sbegu orgjrra gur gjb bs gurz tbg byq sbe zr erny snfg.
Lrnu, V guvax gurl’er hygvzngryl orggre ncneg, gbb. Tbggn nqzvg, V qvqa’g jngpu zbfg bs frnfbaf 2 naq 3 ng gur gvzr, bayl gb fgneg ntnva qhevat OgIF F4/NgF F1, fb jngpuvat gurfr frnfbaf nyzbfg srryf yvxr punenpgre onpxfgbel gb zr. V npprcg gur ‘fuvc ohg pna’g srry vairfgrq va vg.
There is nothing this show could do to emotionally break me further.
Unprepared.
There is nothing this show could do to emotionally break me further.
Really? You really just said that?
"So as long as nothing goes horribly wrong…"
Theories abound!
So with about ten minutes left in the episode, I thought I had figured it out. Willow was going to be able to get back Angel's soul, and then Spike would be the one to pull out the knife and Angel and Buffy would have to team up to stop him next episode. So, I was completely shocked and surprised to see everything go to hell in a handbasket. Giles is kidnapped! Kendra is killed (does this mean that another slayer is born/created? Or is it magically stopped since another slayer is still alive)! Willow is crushed by a bookcase! Xander has his arm broken! Cordelia … runs away? I'm guessing the person with the gun is Principle Snyder or somehow connected with him – there's got to be a culmination of the small threads of him knowing something's wrong.
I did ask for more Dru backstory yesterday, so I'm glad that was woven in with the Angelus story. It didn't seem like Angel was that much of a winner in his actual life (the accents….. oh boy) but it was interesting to see his story unfold. I was hoping we'd see when he created Spike too, but that's ok. It was interesting that Dru's visions/prophey was not something that came with Angelus's mental torture, but an inherent quality.
The "long-haired" innocent (ie unknown Slayer) Buffy was interesting. I think we see a glimpse of the popular girl, who was still not quite rule-abiding. Her parents were still together too, although clearly there a strain was already in the marriage. I wonder what happened to that guy who told her who she was – was he her first watcher? Where did he go?
The new character I'm most interested in is the demon (though I forget his name). How did he find Angel? What does he do all the time? Why did he want to help him? I hope we see more of him!
Willow was going to be able to get back Angel's soul, and then Spike would be the one to pull out the knife and Angel and Buffy would have to team up to stop him next episode.
It may not have been what happened, but this would've been a cool twist! I applaud your imaginative thinking. 😀
First timer comment: I am not fooled by Willow's current state of affairs. I have faith that she will pull this off and turn Angel back in time to help Buffy save the world. Since this is now the second time I've written it, I think I just really want Angel back!
I want that too, but that crystal thing was broken, wasn't it? So they're going to have to find another one somewhere… (I loved that Giles just had one laying around as a paperweight though)
This made me laugh because I'd forgotten they'd included that call back to when the shop owner told Jenny that he sold the orb as a paper weight when she came looking for one.
That guy who told Buffy she was the slayer was a small nod to the original movie. His name was not given in the show but he was intended to be the the equivalent of movie Buffy's first watcher Merrick.
qbrf guvf zrna gung nabgure fynlre vf obea/perngrq?
Snnnnnnnvgu!
Svir ol svir!
Ybir Snvgu.
yby V xabj evtug. V NZ QLVAT NG GURFR PBZZRAGF.
Tbggn unir Snvgu
Tbggn unir Snvgu
Tbggn unir SSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNNNNVVVVVVVVVVVVVGGGGGGGGGGGGGUUUUUUUUUUU
the demon (though I forget his name). How did he find Angel? What does he do all the time? Why did he want to help him?
One of life's great conundrums. Why, indeed?
Ohssl'f svefg Jngpure, Zreevpx. Vs lbh frr gur aba-pnaba svyz be ernq gur pnaba pbzvp "Gur Bevtva", lbh frr gung ur trgf xvyyrq ol n inzcver xvat anzrq Ybgubf.
Merrick was Buffy's first Watcher. The story comes from the movie, or rather, Whedon's script for the movie. He hated the movie and has de-canonized it, but there's a 4-issue comic called "The Origin" based on his script (with the art that makes Buffy and Merrick look like the TV characters, not the movie characters) that Joss has recognized as 'pretty much canon'.
Omg I just want to give the Irish accent a big hug. It is so gloriously awful.
You and me both!
It's perfect in it's horribleness.
Man, so much good stuff in this episode! Even though I've seen it a few times, it's still one of the best finales…
What can I talk about with no spoilers?? There was a ton of great dialogue in this episode (loved Xander berating Cordy for not taking his side when in fact she was), and I loved loved loved the misdirection. Like Buffy, I remember totally falling for it.
RIP Kendra, we hardly knew you 🙁
In honor of David Boreanaz, my brain will be reading all of today's comments in a terrible Irish accent.
Which, to be fair, is all I can muster as well. 😀
…I wasn't intending to do this, but now I can't stop.
DAMN YOUUUUUUU.
;P
Me too! Don'tya know.
When I read "Don't'ya know" I always hear it in a Minnesotan accent.
I have no idea what that sounds like. My knowledge of American accents are what comes though my tv and internet. 🙂 I just thought it seemed to be a phrase that would be hilarious in a Boreanaz-Irish 'accent'.
While looking around for a Minnesota accent to show you, I found this hilarious video of Texans trying to pronounce Wisconsin city names. As a Wisconsinite with Texan parents, this is super awesome to me. ONE OF THEM IS WEARING GREEN BAY PACKERS FACEPAINT. Where are my fellow Wisconsinites at?
Sadly I didn't find a great youtube video of a Minnesota accent, but if you watch the movie Fargo, you're in the right ballpark.
Such a fun video! Thanks for showing it to me. 🙂
Yeah, if you haven't watched Fargo, you really should, and not just to hear the accent. Marge Gunderson <3
[youtube EB4PmbfG4bw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB4PmbfG4bw youtube]
I most definitely will look it up!
"I just thought it seemed to be a phrase that would be hilarious in a Boreanaz-Irish 'accent'. "
Oh, I bet it would.
I found this one guy with a rather thick accent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIczWHuP2qQ It's got a lot of drawn-out rounded vowels, if that makes any sense.
Thanks!
Don't you mean "Oirish?"
This might be the best comment ever.
I have it on good authority that Angel's Xberna npprag va Cnegvat Tvsgf vf rira jbefr.
(spoilers for Alias in the rot 13) Jnvg gvyy lbh urne Wraavsre Tneare'f Wncnarfr npprag va Nyvnf, rfcrpvnyyl fvapr fur'f fhccbfrq gb or cnffvat sbe N ANGVIR FCRNXRE.
V whfg guvax zbfg Jrfgrea npgbef ner njshy ng zvzvpxvat Rnfg Nfvna/nal Nfvna nppragf, vf nyy.
Faith and begorrah, would ye look at the soize of the buildin's in this country!
…too-rah-loo-rah-loo-rah…
V guvax V’z zber rkpvgrq gb frr vs Jvyybj npghnyyl hfrf fbzr qnex zntvp
Ununununununununu
zl gubhtugf RKNPGYL!! or pnershy jung lbh jvfu sbe Znex!!! nuununununununun
Oh, you.
Ohg, frevbhfyl, yrg'f trg fbzr Qnex Jvyybj va guvf ovgpu.
Please don't use the word "bitch" on this site.
Terribly sorry, it was thoughtless of me.
V XABJ, EVGR! Qba’g jbeel, Znex, lbh’yy trg nyy gur zntvp NAQ GURA FBZR.
Qvq Znex whfg bcrayl nfx sbe tnl frk ba Ohssl?
The finale! I love this two-parter. So Excit!
Oh, the flashback with the bad accents.
Darla! I’ve missed you. : ) I don’t know why, but Julie Benz looks better than she did in season one.
Angel looks very weird with long hair. (V yvxr uvz jvgu ernyyl ybat unve naq zhfgnpur gubhtu, jura ur ybbxf abguvat yvxr gur Natry jr xabj, vg’f fbzrubj zber pbaivapvat.)
Is this the first time we see the “then you have to suck their blood” part of vamp-turning?
“It will all be over soon.” Is a sentence that should never be spoken by the good guys, it’s like a jinx.
The dialogs are beautiful in this episode.
Xander’s vampire fight with fish sticks almost made me spill my drink. “Mother?”
“This is a class room” “Yea, where they teach lunch.”
Somehow I think the way Angelus is playing on Drusilla’s fears of angering god is more disgusting than a lot of things he does later. She is such an innocent, scared girl and he made her fear something that is actually a gift she had not asked for with which she could have helped people.
(Qbrf nalbar ryfr guvax gung ure ivfvbaf pbhyq unir pbzr sebz gur CGO?)
(Vg nyjnlf gnxrf Natry n juvyr gb erzrzore jung ur qvq nsgre ur trgf onpx uvf fbhy, ohg vg fgvyy jbexf snfgre guna Fcvxr’f punatr. Znlor orpnhfr Fcvxr tbg uvf fbhy ibyhagnevyl.)
Kendra, man it’s good to see you! I wish we’d had more episodes with her.
Ok, I know thoughts on this are much divided among fans, but I believe Xander’s hatred for Angel here has nothing to do with jealousy. His feelings for Cordy seem quite serious (naq jr frr ur qbrfa’g gerng Fcvxr nal qvssrerag rira orsber Ohssl fubjf nal srryvatf sbe uvz.)
He very much has the same outlook on demons as Kendra. ‘Is it a demon? Then kill it’.
From all the flashbacks we see of Angel the “homeless guy” is one of my favorite.
It’s interesting to see what becomes of a vampire with a soul who has no one to turn to.
I like that witnessing Buffy’s calling and how innocent she still is, is what makes Angel fight for the good side, because protecting her is a nice contrast to what he did to Dru.
She could have used some help, too.
“Why don’t you wait here?” Yes Buffy, listen to Cordelia for once!
Mr. Pointy! I love that Kendra named her stake. (Naq gung Ohssl fgvyy unf vg lrnef yngre.)
(Jurarire Knaqre trgf frevbhfyl uheg vg vf nyjnlf fb ivfhny naq jvgu avpr fvpxravat fbhaqf.
Htu, gur rlr. Vg pna abg or hafrra. *fuhqqre*)
The way Kendra dies gives me the wiggins. I mean, killed by nails? Yikes!
I completely forgot how the first part ends, because I have never seen it without the second.
The writers are really cruel with that cliffhanger. Did this ever air on two different days?
(Jurarire Knaqre trgf frevbhfyl uheg vg vf nyjnlf fb ivfhny naq jvgu avpr fvpxravat fbhaqf.
Htu, gur rlr. Vg pna abg or hafrra. *fuhqqre*)
Pbasbhaq vg, V JNF ERNQVAT GUVF JUVYR RNGVAT.
V guvax vg'f fnsr gb fnl gung va gur Ohsslirefr gur inevbhf CGOf qbyr bhg gur ivfvbaf… fb qvq gurl chg Qeh va Natry'f cngu? Naq zl ovttrfg dhrfgvba gung V'z cerggl fher vfa'g nafjrerq vf jubfr grnz vf Juvfgyre cynlvat ba? Jnf ur frag gb chg Ohssl va Natry'f cngu gb qr-rafbhy uvz?
V guvax gung Juvfgyre jnf n cebgb-Qblyr. Ur frrzrq yvxr n qrprag qrzba naq yvxr ur zvtug unir orra jbexvat sbe GCGO. V guvax ur jnf gurer gb fgneg Natry ba uvf cngu gb orpbzvat n Punzcvba.
Bhe engf ner ybj. 🙂
V whfg yvxr gung vg'f yrsg bcra. Lbh'er boivbhfyl ahqtrq gbjneqf guvaxvat gung "uvf grnz" vf gur tbbq thlf, ohg gur Fravbe Cnegaref fher qb cyna nurnq.
Becoming Part 1 was first broadcast on Tuesday 12 May 1998.
Becoming Part 2 was first broadcast on Tuesday 19 May 1998.
Wow, that is so cruel!
Gunaxf sbe erzvaqvat zr bs gur rlr *fuhqqre*. Vg'f rira jbefr nsgre orpbzvat n sna bs Anguna Svyyvba naq jngpuvat Sversyl naq Pnfgyr orpnhfr lbh pna'g dhvgr pbzchgr Zny Erlabyqf qbvat gung gb fbzrbar. Ur fubhyq cynl zber ivyynvaf whfg gb fubpx crbcyr :).
I think Xander's jealousy of Angel definitely plays into it, but Xander's stance on vampires is pretty much set in the first episode of the show: They kill his best friend and he says right there that he thinks vampires are not good.
I know it's supposed to serve as a contrast to what he did to Dru, but Angel witnessing Buffy's calling and then fixating on her (she's bloody FIFTEEN, pervo!) because it's his "destiny" and the love of/obsession with a good woman is what will make him better………….I'm sorry to offend any Angel fans, but this scene just gives me all the squicks. Thoroughly disgusted with him there.
(Qbrf nalbar ryfr guvax gung ure ivfvbaf pbhyq unir pbzr sebz gur CGO?)
Lrf. V'ir frra gur pbzcnevfba fbzrjurer orsber, gung Qehfvyyn pbhyq unir orra n Qblyr/Pbeqryvn.
(Vg nyjnlf gnxrf Natry n juvyr gb erzrzore jung ur qvq nsgre ur trgf onpx uvf fbhy, ohg vg fgvyy jbexf snfgre guna Fcvxr’f punatr. Znlor orpnhfr Fcvxr tbg uvf fbhy ibyhagnevyl.)
Jr qba'g frr Fcvxr'f ernpgvba gb gur fbhy hagvy zbaguf yngre, fb V qba'g xabj jung lbh zrna. V qba'g erpnyy uvz nf nzarfvnp, whfg gung vg nssrpgrq uvf guvaxvat cebprffrf noabeznyyl sbe n juvyr.
"Jr qba'g frr Fcvxr'f ernpgvba gb gur fbhy hagvy zbaguf yngre, fb V qba'g xabj jung lbh zrna. V qba'g erpnyy uvz nf nzarfvnp, whfg gung vg nssrpgrq uvf guvaxvat cebprffrf noabeznyyl sbe n juvyr."
Naq zbfg bs gung jnf gur Svefg gnxvat nqinagntr bs gur ihyarenovyvgvrf gur fbhy cebivqrq.
Jung V zrnag vf gung gur cebprff sebz Natryhf gb Natry gnxrf n juvyr, ohg cneg bs gung vf bs pbhefr gung ur unq ab bar gb uryc uvz.
Lbh'er evtug, jr bayl frr Fcvxr zbaguf nsgre ur tbg uvf fbhy, V sbetbg nobhg gung.
Ur frrzf gb or pbcvat jvgu vg orggre, ohg rzbgvbaf ner abguvat arj gb uvz nsgre nyy.
"Did this ever air on two different days?"
Yeah, it did.
Thinky thoughts:
– We’re doing the narration again? NO SERIOUSLY FUCK YOU NARRATION FOR ALL TIME. Also HELLO DAVID BOREANAZ’ ATROCIOUS IRISH ACCENT finally we don’t have to mock you in rot13 anymore. Oh also hi Darla you are stunning and homg the symbolism of him being turned in an alley and then turning bad once more in an alley.
– It predates "any settlements we’ve read about"? Given that they later talk about a knight slaying it, I assume it must be medieval, at which point hey, people had been living in North America for a few millenia.
– In a show with vampires, I don’t want to talk about the taste of blood, metaphorical or otherwise. Also, oh Americans and your gratuitous overuse of "nazi" as an insult.
– Well now isn’t it just RUDE when people interrupt your dinner like that, really, Drusilla. Also BACKSTORYGASM. But on a more serious note, what religion is Drusilla supposed to be? Do Anglicans believe in predestination? Because if she’s Catholic she should’ve been more "wait what".
– "She read it in the paper", Spike ILU.
– Willow I LOVE YOU SO MUCH MORE. Firm encouragement FTW and then OMG THE FLOPPY DISK lol the floppy disk !!!!11!! ("oh boy", really?)
– I can’t comment on the goodness or badness of the Romanian here; pronunciation-wise, it sounds legit enough. Except for, as I’ve mentioned in Passion, why is it in Romanian and not in Romani?
– Oh. THIS SCENE. Okay, first of all, why does Willow have more profound experience with magic now than Giles who summoned demons in his youth?
But. Second of all. XANDER. Shut the fuck up. You are gross and inappropriate and ugh on all levels. Is there a point to be made about how Angel may have to be killed? Yes. BUT YOU ARE NOT PERSPECTIVE GUY. I don’t buy that. He shows a complete lack of any sort of sympathy/empathy here and it is all the ugh. I love Willow’s "why are we friends again" face here, not going to lie.
– But good stuff! KENDRA IS BACK. And look, they’re actually having a friendly conversation and stuff.
– How convenient that Acathla was found just when the season ended, huh?
– That seems to be the lightest sword ever. Okay, maybe a slayer holding it with two fingers, but Giles?
– More flashbackstory! But Whistler may just be the most annoying thing introduced on this show so far. I don’t know exactly why but something about him makes me want to punch him in the face repeatedly. With various blunt objects.
– Angel has a creepmobile D: but "Not the heart! " heee but also, poor babybuffy :((((
– Seriously Whistler you are no one to call anyone annoying be gone from this show
– Someone wasn’t worthy! Spike I want to do things to do
– Uh-oh, it’s the wacky music of A VAMPIRE BURNS TO DEATH ON SCREEN. Also, HOW (relatively) BLASÉ MOST ARE ABOUT A BURNING LADY
– PS: IT’S A TRAP. Haven’t you learned anything from When She Was Bad? (well, obviously not, seeing how Angel refers back to it)
– The Latin is okay, as far as I can see, but ugh, that English perditum DO NOT WANT IN MY LATIN
– And then everything goes to hell and LEAVE KENDRA ALONE, DRU and well fuck you
– And then we get Max Perlich narrating and it destroys the whole moment and momentum of the final scene. WAY TO GO U GUISE
– No, seriously, you should’ve stopped after "freeze".
– DUN DUN DUUUUUN
German title time: Wendepunkte – Turning Points, which, fair enough, because they do mention specific points in time, but stands in opposition to the progressive aspect of becoming, I'd say.
Wait, I thought Seth Green was narrating? WHY DID I THINK THAT WAS SETH GREEN?
Nope, it was the actor who plays Whistler.
Even though I knew it wasn't Seth Green, it DOES sound like him! You're not alone.
No, Anglicans do not believe in predestination. That's Calvinist nonsense. ;p
ETA: nor do they have confession, so she would have to be Catholic.
IDK, this might just be me but when I heard the line, "Any settlements we've read about," my first thought was okay, these guys are archaeologists. So they're probably referring to journals/academic articles.
Depending on the area and when Sunnydale was built, it could be very unlikely that any archaeological survey or research was done in the area prior to that. So, no archaeological data. Depending on the strength of the anthropology in the area and the local indigenous population, there may not be any anthropological data either. So without that data, you can't really write an article.
There may be first-hand diary-style accounts from the settlement era, but IDK, maybe … okay, I don't know nearly enough about Native American culture to know if things work this way (since yanno, I don't live there), but maybe it was a sacred place that no-one went to, and only the very senior people had the authority to talk about. So there was no information to be written down… so again, no reading material to speak with. Or the much worse option that everyone was killed/removed/had their connection to the land broken before whitefolk took the time to stop and say "hey, what's this place?"
You're right in that it's silly if it's said as though to imply no-one was on the continent at that time (er, no, they'd been there quite a while by the European medieval period), but there can be legit reasons for having no data on an area.
And there ends the speculation.
Abg hapbzzba, lbh svaq nyy fbegf bs uvfgbevpny fghss haqre znwbe pvgvrf, fbzr bs vg dhvgr qrrcyl ohevrq. Naq unira'g gurer orra pnfrf jurer nepunrbybtvfgf enaqbzyl svaq irel rneyl Rhebcrna haerpbeqrq frggyrzragf va cnegf bs gur HF, nera'g gurer? Fb vg fgnaqf gb ernfba gurer pbhyq unir orra n zvffvba bs juvpu gurer vf ab erpbeq.
I'm unsure about Drusilla's religion. Confession is a big enough part of Catholicism since it's considered a sacrament but I can't speak for the Protestant religions, the latter of which I'd be more likely to assume she was part of because she's in London. Then again the Catholic Emancipation was some time in the 19th century so there'd be a lot less restrictions on being Catholic and I am going off on a tangent, sorry.
As far as I know, it's only Catholics that do confession like that. I approve of your religious history geekery.
History geekery is always good. Also I'm Irish so religious restrictions in Britain (and therefore Ireland at the time) like the Penal Laws and when they were later lifted through the Catholic Emancipation Act were basic parts of the history course as they had such a big effect on the country and involved big name historical figures such Daniel O'Connell.
She must have been Catholic. She was going to be a nun before Angelus turned her ("Lie to Me").
I welcome educational tangents! I know more about the religious history of Germany (because DUH), but apart from some basics I know not that much about stuff in the anglophone world (or about the religions themselves CATHOLICS HOW DO WE WORK*)
*Seriously, I just learnt about this "predestination" stuff a year ago in a wholly different context so I didn't pick up on it now.
I love hearing the random German titles. They make me smile.
"- Oh. THIS SCENE. Okay, first of all, why does Willow have more profound experience with magic now than Giles who summoned demons in his youth? "
Right? Actually it kind of freaks me out that all you need in this universe to be able to do magic is an internet connection and the ability to read things phonetically.
"- Oh. THIS SCENE. Okay, first of all, why does Willow have more profound experience with magic now than Giles who summoned demons in his youth? "
Right? Actually it kind of freaks me out that all you need in this universe to be able to do magic like this is an internet connection and the ability to read things (not even) phonetically.
Truth!
YES YES ALL THE YES
The Romanian was pretty bad. I was cringing. And laughing at the same time. Well, there are a lot of Roma living in Romania and they speak the language so it does make sense.
Oh dear. Yeah, my knowledge of Romanian is, uh, limited to a swear I got taught by a late German emigrant from Romania, so I just noticed that there wasn't the telltale English /r/.
And yeah, I guess it's plausible, it's just that Jenny's description of it as "ancient" magics that have long been lost made me go "huh" a bit, because a) ancient magics on the show seem to generally be in ancient tongues, b) Romanian isn't exactly an obscure language, even if not to the most prominent Romance one, so translating shouldn't have been too hard, and c) BtVS wouldn't be the first to mix up Romanian and Romani.
Or TL;DR I overanalyse things sometimes.
> Except for, as I’ve mentioned in Passion, why is it in Romanian and not in Romani?
Probably confusion with Români for the Romanian people, helped along by the fact that many Kalderash live in Romania.
"why is it in Romanian and not in Romani?"
Well, it's possible that the spell simply was Romanian and not a typical Romani curse, which would explain the loophole they may not have known about when they cursed him.
Tha "nazi" comments always surprise me, because they don't appear in the dubbed version.
They just called Snyder a dictator if I remember correctly.
When I first started watching non-dubbed American TV in general, I was beyond surprised about the frequency of nazi jokes/comments, ngl.
*I* was surprised when I found out they had banned a bunch of related terms in Germany!
Well, terms aren't banned, but talking about nazis or using nazi-related terminology in a jocular manner tends to be looked down on for, well, reasons.
What's banned are certain symbols, such as the swastika or the SS runes or doing the nazi salute, unless they're used in a way that "serve purposes of citizen education, of defending against counter-constitutional efforts, of the arts, sciences, research or education, reporting about contemporary activites or history or similar purposes" (quoting and off-the cuff translating the relevant law, hence its awkward wording).
Which, again, happened for reasons, but it went into what the fuck are you doing that is NEITHER the letter nor the spirit of the law territory when people were fined for producing material with this on it (thankfully, the Federal Court ultimately said no u to that aspect of the ban).
ANGEL STAY AWAY FROM ALLEYS
But then how would he have ever met Buffy back in ‘Welcome to the Hellmouth?’ or, uh, that other time, with the Three near the Bronze, or the time when [I can’t rot13 things right now because of computer issues]…
Pbaabe'f ovegu, gur svany svtug bs NgF… nalguvta ryfr?
[youtube iWhiZF8xzXQ&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWhiZF8xzXQ&feature=related youtube]
I really enjoy voice-over guy.
OH, BECOMING.
So, Part 1 of this, I had to tape because I wasn't home that night. Consequently, for years it was the only episode of Buffy I had at my disposal whenever I wanted to rewatch it. I have seen this episode SO MANY times, and EVERY SINGLE TIME I am not prepared for that final chaotic moment in the library, or Kendra dying, or the gun suddenly pointed at Buffy's head.
WHY IS THIS HAPPENING ;_;
You aren't prepared, Mark. You aren't prepared.
(Also, gee, maybe someone should start keeping a "Dead Person of Color" count; way to do it yet again, Joss.)
I was keeping a count but I stopped after Inca Mummy Girl.
Second half of Buffy season two promos.
[youtube 22TAQvg3Vys&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22TAQvg3Vys&feature=related youtube]
Wooooow I would have been pissed if I had seen those before I watched the episodes! They are so spoilery!
They are, aren't they? Though some are misleading. Actually, now I've remembered that of course this will include bits of the season finale, so I shouldn't have posted it. Though hopefully no one will be spoiled because they'll deduce what I forgot to say. But I understand if the mods delete.
That's why I don't watch the promos at the end of shows (Next week on Buffy…). I want to find out what's going on as I'm watching it. Plus, most of the ones I did end up seeing were so misleading. I think they got worse every year.
V erzrzore gur bar sbe Onaq Pnaql jura gur cebzb znqr vg ybbx yvxr Tvyrf jnf punfvat nsgre Ohssl, ohg va ernyvgl gurl jrer obgu punfvat nsgre Rguna.
god that voiceover is so annoying LOL. I gave up after 2 minutes.
I want to be all serious and do a proper comment because plot developments, character history and all that jazz but I’m just in the door and honestly my main thought is Angel what on earth is that accent?
<img src="http://i43.tinypic.com/23tqemf.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I can’t decide whether I want to plead with David Boreanaz never to speak in an accent again because that was terrible or want him to never stop because it was hilarious in a oh my god what is your voice even doing kind of way.
It's Oirish. It's an Oirish accent.
You know I don't think Oirish even covers it. It's like a bad version of Oirish, which I hadn't realised was possible.
You've clearly never seen Julia Roberts in Michael Collins.
I actually just laughed out loud thinking of that accent. I somehow always manage to banish it from my mind until someone reminds me of it. But yes, Roberts 'Collins' accent is just a god awful accent unto it's own.
lol that's exactly what I thought. I really hope no one said anything important during those scenes because I lol'd my way through them.
Nathan from Misfits laughs at the Oirish accent too:
<img src="http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljdu7bhecY1qgooo5o1_400.gif" />
His Irish accent is so bad. So bad it's physically painful.
Being German, I never knew it was bad until l discovered the Internets and grew up. I first watched Oirish Angel in O-tone when I was approximately 16 or 17. Then I loved it. I think I still love it. I love all kinds of accents, whether they're accurate or not. I think he sounds cute.
I've been spolied in some things about this show, cause I used to watch sometimes an episode, but I really believe that I'm still unprepared for what it's coming.
What a week….we start out with Passion and end with Becoming: Part 1. At least happy things are happening over on Mark Reads to even things out a bit.
Excellent episode but oh god Boreanaz, it is clear that at this point in your life you had never met an actual Irish person. That accent is like nails on a chalkboard to me.
Wasn't he married to an Irish woman at the time?
Woah, it's a laptop with a floppy disk drive.
Hey Xander, if Angel gets his soul back, he'll stop being a threat, and who knows, he might even be guilty enough to want to commit suicide. Dude, think it through. He's "Pespective Guy?" His perspective is warped and is focused purely on anger and not actually what would best benefit the situation, which would be to remove Angelus as a threat. Get over yourself.
Hey Kendra hey! Glad to see her in more normal clothing this time. And hey Buffy, don't mimic her accent ick.
I think Angelus is a good villain but I don't particularly care about Angel as a character so all those flashbacks don't really interest me since I don't really care much about Angel's backstory. However, the whole bit about him becoming infatuated with a younger Buffy is really creepy and the whole thing about Whistler seemingly pushing him towards a destiny with her is something I wish forever didn't exist.
Who knew Al Franken would still be a relevant reference over a decade later?
NOOOO Kendra dies 🙁 🙁 🙁 …but I am at least pleased that it's Drusilla that kills her. She's never been quite treated as a threat of her own, but here Drusilla's a goddamn BAMF.
I am at least pleased that it's Drusilla that kills her. She's never been quite treated as a threat of her own, but here Drusilla's a goddamn BAMF.
Totally agree with you about Drusilla. Its nice to see her in charge and implementing a plan that actually works! I think it really shows her as a vampire to be feared, not just someone that Angel and Spike are fighting over.
Agreed on Drusilla. Not that she hadn't been dangerous in the past but she really shows herself to be a threat at the end of this episode.
However, the whole bit about him becoming infatuated with a younger Buffy is really creepy and the whole thing about Whistler seemingly pushing him towards a destiny with her is something I wish forever didn't exist.
Thank you! It's just so stalker-y and gave me all the squicks when I was 14, for reasons I didn't even understand till years later.
ohhhhhhhh I did not know about that! (I avoid the comics, without the actors it just isn't the same). Details, please? (cannot be arsed to read them)
Bu, naq abj ur'f frg hc nf n ovt onq va Natry & Snvgu.
thank you bb!
Where's the brain bleach? Do not want that image in my mind!
yeah, esp. since they're almost the same age AAAAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHHHHH!
I just loved Drusilla fighting. I even liked the hypnotizing. The way she swayed and toyed with Kendra as though she was an interesting doll just seemed so characteristic of her. Then she used her nails instead of biting… Poor Kendra.
…. I wonder what Dru did with her puppy?
She gave it to a nice home where no one was ever mean to it.
What, it could happen.
However, the whole bit about him becoming infatuated with a younger Buffy is really creepy and the whole thing about Whistler seemingly pushing him towards a destiny with her is something I wish forever didn't exist.
Yessss and herein lies a major reason why I just don't love the Buffy/Angel relationship. It's pretty skeevy in retrospect.
Who knew Al Franken would still be a relevant reference over a decade later?
RIGHT? That's exactly what I was thinking.
One of the most iconic moments in the entire series for me is Buffy running down the hallway and then everything going slo-mo and dreamlike as she gets closer and sees everything destroyed. It's something I remember vividly even to this day.
Nj, trrm, nyy gur arj sbyxf ner tbvat gb or hggreyl qrfgeblrq ol Cg 2, uhu?
I always remember that moment as well, but it might be because I loved her jacket, especially with those pants. Haha.
That jacket is gorgeous!
YES to the bit about Buffy running down the hallway. That bit always gives me chills, just the way it's shot and set up, with her coat flapping out behind her and the empty hallway and knowing what she's going to see at the end.
I. tynq vg znqr vg vagb gur perqvgf nsgre guvf.
And yes to your rot13 too. THEY ARE NOT PREPARED.
I have reason to suspect that ravtzngvpntragfphyyl zvtug abg or gbb oebxra hc nobhg vg.
Vg'f qrsvavgryl cbffvoyr. Naq fur znl or nssrpgrq ol Ohssl'f furre uheevpnar-sbepr tevrs va gur vzzrqvngr nsgrezngu nf jryy. Naq gur snpg vf gung Wbff Jurqba vf tbvat gb tvir ure rknpgyl jung fur jnagf va gur zbfg cnvashy jnl ur cbffvoyl pna, orpnhfr ur'f na rivy travhf naq na rzbgvbany inzcver jub srrqf ba nyy bs bhe cnva.
"Naq gur snpg vf gung Wbff Jurqba vf tbvat gb tvir ure rknpgyl jung fur jnagf va gur zbfg cnvashy jnl ur cbffvoyl pna, orpnhfr ur'f na rivy travhf naq na rzbgvbany inzcver jub srrqf ba nyy bs bhe cnva."
Bu fb zhpu guvf. Rira jura Wbff tvirf lbh jung lbh jnag, ur qbrf vg va fhpu n jnl gung vg'f nfurf naq qhfg va lbhe zbhgu.
That was a beautiful shot but Slo-mo has been completely ruined for me so I cannot see it without wanting to laugh. I suppose that could be a good thing as it will help me survive endings like this one.
Oh my god this is David Boreanaz' Irish Accent, AKA my favorite thing in the world. It's SO BAD and ridiculous that I'm completely in love with it. I equate it to my love of Fat Lee.
Looking at it dispassionately (no pun intended), it does not make any sense for the Scoobies to kill Angel. When he was on their side, he was a huge asset to the team, and frankly, they need all the help they can get. Getting him back on their side should be a bigger priority than eliminating him.
I have no fucking clue why Angel would want to wipe out the whole of human existence aside from the fact that he can. Like, that is literally how detached Angelus is from reality. DRUSILLA, WHY ARE YOU ON BOARD WITH THIS? Won’t you go to hell too?
Demon dimension, where demons go to party?
exactly. And come on, Mark, haven't you SEEN Drusilla? She wouldn't think going to hell was any punishment, girl wants a demon party!
Well she did love her birthday present of the humanity eradicating Judge.
Coming out present. But yeah, this is Dru. She'd enjoy Hell. Actually, Giles said all non-demon life would suffer, so it presumably would be livable for the average vampire.
Oh yeah, I mixed it up with Buffy's birthday.
"V guvax V’z zber rkpvgrq gb frr vs Jvyybj npghnyyl hfrf fbzr qnex zntvp."
Or pnershy jung lbh jvfu sbe qbrfa'g pbzr pybfr gb pbirevat zl erfcbafr.
QNJA GUERNQ!
Bxnl, fb pyrneyl gurer’f abg fcnpr va guvf rcvfbqr sbe Qnja. Cneg gjb, ubjrire, V rkcrpg rirelbar gb unir gurve gurbevrf va yvar ubj jr pna znxr gur fprar jvgu Wblpr naq Ohssl (naq Fcvxr) rira zber cnvashy guna vg nyernql vf.
Jnvg, V yvrq. Qnja pbhyq unir orra va gur synfuonpx jvgu Ohssl – fur gbgnyyl pnzr hc naq gevrq gb ubyq bagb Ohssl’f unaq, naq Ohssl erohssrq ure nyy Pbeqryvn-yvxr. (Wblpr jbhyq unir znqr Ohssl ncbybtvmr sbe vg yngre.)
V'yy cebonoyl fnir zl shyy gubhtug sbe gur Zbaqnl guernq ohg zl oevrs fhzznel vf: V qba'g guvax Qnja jnf cneg bs gur Ohssl/Wblpr/Fcvxr fprar, Va zl urnqpnaba fur'f ng gur ubfcvgny ivfvgvat Jvyybj.
Ohg lrnu fur'q gbgnyyl unir orra cneg bs gur synfuonpxf gb cer-fynlre Ohssl naq gur nethzrag orgjrra gur cneragf. Pbafvqrevat ubj yngr vg'f vzcyvrq gb or V'z thrffvat nyy gur lryyvat, svefg Wblpr ng Ohssl naq gura ure naq Unax, jbxr ure hc naq fur jnf ernyyl pbashfrq juvpu whfg znqr vg jbefr va n "Crbcyr ner fubhgvat naq V qba'g xabj JUL" jnl.
V jnf tbvat gb fnl va gur synfuonpx yvggyr Qnja'f cebonoyl fbzrjurer va gur ubhfr gelvat gb oybpx bhg gur fbhaq bs ure cneragf svtugvat 🙁
Abg fher jurer fur'q svg va gur erfg bs gur rcvfbqr. Fur'q whfg or ng ubzr, V thrff. Znlor fur'q urne fbzrguvat nobhg gur frys-vzzbyngvat inzcver sebz n sevraq jvgu n fvoyvat ng gur uvtu fpubby.
V guvax gung nsgre Ohssl trgf ubzr naq urnef ure cneragf svtugvat, fur zvtug unir tbar vagb Qnja'f ebbz gb pbzsbeg rnpu bgure. Cnegyl V guvax guvf orpnhfr vg vf fb boivbhf va yngre frnfbaf gung Qnja gbbx gur qvibepr ernyyl uneq, naq fur jbhyq unir orra lbhat rabhtu gung fur unqa'g uvg ovgpul-cer-grra lrnef lrg. Vafgrnq, fur'f cresrpgyl ntrq gung jnl sbe frnfba svir!
Bgure guna gung… V zbfgyl guvax Qnja qbrfa'g fubj hc hagvy arkg rcvfbqr…
Please don't use "bitchy" on this site.
Oh man oh man. Before this episode, Drusilla was just a creepy character because you didn't know what the hell she was about. But now! Now that you see she can hypnotize people and then KILL THEM WITH HER FINGERNAILS. That's like, a whole new ballgame.
Also, it took me all of the first season of Dexter to get over Rita = Darla, you better run, Dexter! Feelings.
I haven't seen (much of ) Dexter yet, but I knew she played Rita and I just know this will be my feeling too. I'm looking forward to it.
Dexter spoiler:
Fnqyl, V nyfb xabj nobhg ure qrzvfr. Vg'f gur ernfba jul V fgvyy nofgnva sebz jngpuvat. V pna'g unaqyr Qneyn trggvat xvyyrq ntnva. Cbbe guvat.
Fur unq gur zbfg qrngu fprarf bs nalbar ba Ohssl/Natry!
lol, I used to watch Roswell and kept seeing Miss Topolski as Darla.
I think Julie Benz needs to dye her hair to stop reminding us of that role 🙂
Poor Kendra! 🙁 I whish she would have gotten to kick Dru's ass a little before dying instead of getting hypnotized.
I love the Buffy flashback, the "Hi! huh? what?" response to the watcher who tells her she's been chosen is so brilliant!
It's okay not to want to dress like Whistler, Angel, you'd never work that hat the way it's supposed to. Ohssl ubjrire jbhyq fheryl chyy bss n Juvfgre-evopntr-ung.
"Uryyb gb gur vzntrel!"
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Not a bad way to start off your afterlife, I have to say.
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Cordelia likes him so much. Look at that face. That's luuuuuuuuuuuuurve. And for all I knock Xander, his fish stick theater is a excellent example of why he's (boy)friend material. If this wasn't already so long I would have three caps from this scene. One of the fish sticks, one of Cordelia and Xander, and one of Oz, Willow, and Buffy. Poor Buffy. Surrounded by happy couples and all she can think about is how she has to kill the only person she has ever loved. Don't worry, Buffy. This is the last time happiness makes an appearance for quite a while.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyh15x6MvR1qz5stv.png">
Well that was a short period of liking Xander.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyh16lnKdT1qz5stv.png">
Spike has all three of my favorite lines this episode. #2 is also from this scene.
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Giles is the cutest nerd.
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Starting off your relationship with Buffy as a TOTAL creeper. Well done, Angel.
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Whose side is Whistler on? duhn duhn duhnn!
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I am on Spike's side. (Favorite line #3)
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!!! Mr. Pointy !!!
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THAT'S SENATOR AL FRANKEN (DFL-MN) TO YOU!!!
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Blocking the scene so the vamp steps over Kendra's dead body is a really nice stake to the heart, Joss.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyh1gjeCX51qz5stv.png">
OH COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
Transcripts modified from BvA
"Not a bad way to start off your afterlife, I have to say"
yesss
Love your entire comment!
I'm so glad! I will keep putting them together! I have fun doing it. I did an episode by episode screencapping of Twin Peaks before and I like how it makes me want to find the perfect text/frame combination and spend a little extra time with each episode.
Hahaha is that one vamp wearing like a 90s proto-Affliction shirt? He looks like he should be in Godsmack or something
They really like to play up the 90s goth fashion. Us baby goths were a target audience!
Yeah, the bald dude and Dru look like a matching set.
The "at Buffy's LA school" scene just makes me think about the Buffy movie. I love it so, in all its terrible cheesy awfulness. Also, Rutger Hauer! Did Mark watch the movie? Will Mark watch the movie?
Also, it says something about an episode when (after the fish fingers (do fish have fingers?)) Spike provides the lightest notes.
I KNOW! Her first watcher is again a weird middle-aged man who really should know that he should be more tactful in approaching a 15/16 year old girl.
If only Luke Perry would make an appearance.
But why is Mr Pointy (YAY! finally no more rot13 on that!) so bent? That's kind of an inefficient shape to shove in a vampire's chest.
Maybe it's bent in exactly the way that makes it most efficient for stabbing hearts? I mean, it is her LUCKY stake.
The slayers have never really had a problem with physically shoving things into vamps… I like notemily's suggestion that it's particularly well shaped for getting a large amount of internal chest area
Spike really is the best. Let's be real.
I laughed at the short period of liking Xander. My days of not taking him seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
Hee! Mal has given me so many snarky things to say to people who bug me. =D
I really have not heard a good fake Irish accent before. I think its just one of those that can't be faked. I have attempted to learn the Irish language before, and I just don't seem to have the necessary sounds in my repertoire.
Casting is a funny thing- I used to watch Rita and always see Darla, but now I can't watch Darla and not see Rita.
I thought the initial flashback was interesting- since I suspect most of the fandom was under the belief that Angel was a good man when he was alive- only to discover that while he wasn't evil or bad, he was sort of – well, a loser.
I've heard a few decent ones, but most are atrocious. The worst is that guy in Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle, though, dear god it's hideous.
My "worst" goes to Gabrielle Anwar's on Burn Notice. Even she promised to never do it again.
A lot of Irish people don't have the necessary sounds. It's made more complicated by the different dialects having different rules and accents.
A moment of Silence for Kendra….
And dramatic ominous music because it's a cliff hanger.
BUMBUMBUMMMMMM.
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Huh. Your reply seems to be blank. You might want to check that out.
No, there's a picture there.No, there isn't, why did I post that?
"It's a big rock. I'll have to tell all my friends. They don't have a rock this big."
Nothing else in this episode makes me smile. It's just too heart breaking.
That's one of my favorite lines in all of Buffy.
I will drink… the blood will wash in me, over me, and I will be cleansed. I will be worthy to free Acathla. Bear witness… as I ascend… as I become. Everything that I am, everything that I have done, has led me here. I have strayed, I have been lost. But Acathla redeems me. With this act, we will be free.
It's interesting that, in a deeply twisted way, Angelus wants the same as Angel – redemption. I love, love, LOVE Spike's response, too:Someone wasn't worthy. But, then, he's in fine snarking style all through this episode. It's a big rock. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
And wackiness ensues.
THIS SHOW IS SO UTTERLY QUOTABLE!!!!
Poor Kendra – but we finally see just why Drusilla is to be feared. Even more than healthy Spike was.
And the next episode? So much for which you are unprepared.
So much happens in this episode. I always am shocked by the size if the pile of things that Buffy has to deal with.
Horrific accents aside, the opportunity to delve into Angel’s past is just delicious. Building a back story for a character that old had so much potential. Also I appreciated the glimpse of a young, incredibly innocent Buffy.
Some thoughts I had in this episode:
-HI OZ I MISSED YOU.
-David Boreanaz, stop that crime of an accent at once.
-Do vampires have razor blades in their fingernails?
-Buffy stop mocking Kendra's accent
-"Vg pbhyq bcra n qbbe lbh zvtug abg or noyr gb pybfr." NUUU, SBERFUNQBJVAT.
-NO, KENDRA 🙁
-She barely scratched her, I do not accept this >:| (AtS spoiler: Jrf tbg vg zhpu jbefr guna gung naq fheivirq, pbzr ba.)
Also: V guvax V’z zber rkpvgrq gb frr vs Jvyybj npghnyyl hfrf fbzr qnex zntvp.
Or pnershy jung lbh jvfu sbe, Znex. QAJ.
Another thought: I am so confused at what Dru's background is, because her accent and grammar are very working class, but she has really good clothes and has said that her family would eat lemons and pomegranates and honey which were really expensive. WRITERS, DO SOME RESEARCH.
Is her accent working-class, though, or is it just from an area of England thought to be associated with the working class? Maybe her family was New Money.
Yeah, it is; if you had that accent in Victorian London, you'd be working class. Her grammar, diction and dialect are all working class, too. If they were New Money, she'd get elocution lessons.
Watching Dexter was the biggest trip because Darla and Rita couldn't be more different. Julie Benz for ALL the acting awards.
I'm really glad they had both Cordelia and Kendra say they thought Angel should die as well, because while I agree with all three of them (I love Angel but I'm a very black and white kind of person when it comes to fiction and vampires–particularly ones as bad as Angelus–must die), Xander was a little harsh in his expression of that. So I'm glad they had two more sensible voices back it up.
JUNG VF FUR ORPBZRF N GRPUAB-CNTNA VA WRAAL’F CYNPR? bu zl tbq FRNFBA GUERR. Znxr guvf n ernyvgl!
Bu Tbq fbzrbar'f tbaan unir gb erzvaq uvz bs guvf pvepn Jvyybj'f nqqvpgvba gb zntvp oernxqbja va frnfba fvk.
I really enjoyed the flashbacks (more please), and I really do not like the idea of anything happening to Giles!
First timer predictions for tonight's (well, I'll be watching tomorrow) finale:
1. Willow to the rescue! She will turn Angel back to a good guy.
2. Together, Buffy and Angel will take care of the bad guy, Dru, and Spike.
3. It will end with Buffy thankful for having Angel back, but not yet able to forgive him.
4. BONUS: The next season will be about Angel brooding about and trying to win her back.
Being the first part of a two-part story, this episode is a LOT of set up, but it’s still a good episode in its own right. I think the high light of this episode are the flashbacks to Angel’s life. So let’s talk about that first.
DAVID BORENAZ’S IRISH ACCENT. LOLLLLLLLLLL. Anyway, Angel seems like he was a rough sort of fellow back when he was human, but then he meets this beautiful woman who promises to show him the world. (Which, can I say that this whole scene casts a bit of doubt on what Angel said in “Halloween” that when he was human he wished girls were more like Buffy or whatever it was he said? He seems to be pretty into the gorgeous and fancy Darla.)
The scene between the human Drusilla and Angel was pretty great too. Even as a human, Dru had the Sight and it scared her. Anyway, Angel is intrigued by her and encourages to embrace the darkness, and we all know how that ends. We get a scene of Angel losing his soul and it’s established that the clan who cursed Angel wanted him to suffer the weight of his sins. Idk. This whole set up feels like a kind of… purgatory? Hm.
The next time we check in with Angel, he’s being a bit of a mess in New York. Vg’f xvaq bs uneq gb chg gbtrgure uvf gvzryvar nf fbhy!Natry cer-Fhaalqnyr. (Naq ol gung V zrna, yvxr ubj ur tbg sebz gur crefba ur jnf va gur 50f gung jr frr va gung frnfba 2 rcvfbqr bs Natry naq jub ur jnf va gur… 70f? va gung bar frnfba 4 rcvfbqr jurer ur naq Snvgu jnyx guebhtu Natryf' pbafpvbhfarff be jungrire gb yvivat va gur thggref va gur 90f.) Juvfgyre xvaq bs erzvaqf zr bs Qblyr n yvggyr ovg. Naq ybbx fbzr nzovthvgl jvgu jurgure qrzbaf ner onq be abg! Jnf Juvfgyre frag ol Gur Cbjref Gung Or?
Anyway, a nice demon sets Angel on his path to being a Force for Good instead of wallowing in gutters. And HOW CREEPY IS IT THAT ANGEL SAW BUFFY AS A FRESHMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL SUCKING ON A LOLLYPOP? So yeah, I think this flashback confirms for me that Angel saw Buffy as a symbol of redemption. Oh Angel you creepy stalker, you, looking in her bedroom window and then following Buffy to Sunnydale when she moved.
That shot where Buffy is looking at herself in the mirror, contemplating the weight of her destiny while her parents argue in the background is just heartbreaking. It’s just this perfect combination of Buffy as a normal teen dealing with parents on the brink of divorce as well as Buffy as The Chosen One with the weight of the world on her shoulders.
The plot of the episode revolves around setting up this mysterious artifact that Angel steals from a museum. Turns out that a demon inside of it has the power to destroy the world. Oh goody. Angel is unable to pull the sword from the demon to activate him, so he kidnaps Giles to help him.
The other main plot of the episode concerns the fact that Buffy and company have discovered the floppy disk containing the ritual for restoring Angel’s soul. Buffy is ready to kill Angel at the beginning of the episode and she seems anxious to do so. However, once she knows that it’s possible to save him, she feels like she has to try. Xander is being SO unfeeling. And the way he throws Jenny’s death in Gile’s face? Ugh. Stop it, Xander. Buffy has seen Angel do all these horrible things, but now that Buffy knows it is possible to get Angel’s soul back she wants to believe that she can save him- that she can save the man she used to know.
As Buffy fights Angel, Willow tries to do the spell to give Angel his soul back. But it’s a trap. Angel was just distracting Buffy while his cronies attacked her friends. Kendra is killed and Willow and Xander are injured while Giles is taken. Buffy says that the primary plan is for her to kill Angel, but he notices she’s not fighting at full strength. I think she’s subconsciously holding back because she wants Willow to give Angel his soul back. She WAS ready to kill him, but then doubt crept in. But I think that by the end of the episode as she surveys the damage and sees Kendra’s body, Buffy is renewed in her previous resolve to kill Angel.
Sidenote: Hee! Giles has an orb a thessala as a paper weight. Nice call back to “Passion” where the shopkeeper said he had sold some as paper weights.
Juvfgyre xvaq bs erzvaqf zr bs Qblyr n yvggyr ovg
Nccneragyl gurl npghnyyl jnagrq gb hfr Juvfgyre ba Natry (gur fubj…abg…re lrnu) ohg gurl pbhyqa'g trg gur npgbe onpx fb gur perngrq Qblyr vafgrnq.
He seems to be pretty into the gorgeous and fancy Darla
I don't think that clashes with what he said in Halloween though. His complaint was that they bored him. Darla is clearly a woman of high social standing who is on her own at night in an alley in a rough area. That's pretty damn intriguing!
GL GL. Vg pna or uneq gb xrrc nyy gur synfuonpxf fgenvtug va zl urnq fvapr gurl unccra fb znal rcvfbqrf ncneg.
Which, can I say that this whole scene casts a bit of doubt on what Angel said in “Halloween” that when he was human he wished girls were more like Buffy or whatever it was he said? He seems to be pretty into the gorgeous and fancy Darla.
Oh, I always thought this scene actually reinforced that line–most posh girls of his day didn't hang out in alleys, and he admired how fearless Darla was and how she promised to show him the world. She was "more interesting" than the other girls.
Am I the only one who can't tell at all that David Boreanaz's accent is awful? Like, I totally believe y'all that it is! But as an American with only occasional exposure to Irish accents through the media…I legit cannot tell. It just sounds Irish to me. (Okay, there was ONE word that I definitely heard with an American accent, but that's it.) Just me?
Well, that's the thing–it sounds like an Irish accent as spoken by an American with only occasional exposure to Irish accents through the media 😉 He obviously Did Not Do The Research.
It's really, really bad. As bad as his acting was in the first episode. Ohg vg tbg zhpu, zhpu orggre nsgre ur fgnegrq jbexvat jvgu Tyraa Dhvaa ba gur fcvabss.
Hahaha God I know, Angel as Drunken Irishman is just AWFUL. "My you are but a pretty little ting" and shit. I can't not laugh. He makes up for it with the chilling scene with Dru, though. God. Poor pre-vamped Dru 🙁
I have to admit here: I kind of hate the trope of introducing a completely new mysterious character that just *knows things* and is all cryptic about it. It's never been my favorite narrative tactic. It always feels too much like, "I have no idea how we're going to properly introduce the information we need to introduce. Let's throw in this new guy who somehow knows everything but won't reveal it right away." It irritates me. I think there are always better ways. That said, I respect the television production that's often teetering on not knowing how many more seasons it'll get or when the axe might drop or when actors will have to leave or whatever and doesn't account for everything, so whatever, Whistler, you bother me, but I'll let you live.
Baby Slayer Buffy, you make me want to laugh and cry. Could you imagine being FIFTEEN and having some random guy come up to you like, "So you're the chosen one and you have to ditch your friends and disregard the health of your family and defeat horrifying monsters until you die and you can't walk away from this, sorry?" HHNNNGGGGG.
Your unpreparedness makes me want to simultaneously cackle and I can't tell you.
Huh, I guess Acathla is fuelled by badass, hence the kidnapping of Giles as a power source…
You win thirteen internets and an invisible pony.
Hasbeghangryl, gheaf bhg gurl zvfgenafyngrq vg – Npnguyn’f NPGHNYYL shryrq ol n yrtraqnevyl qvfborqvrag qbaxrl.
(Apologies to Terry Pratchett.)
~DYING OF LOLS.
(cannot even wait for Mark to get around to Discworld now)
Rot13'd for Discworld spoilers.
I have much more to say about today's episode than I did about yesterday's and somehow I did manage to write a lot about that one so I warn you in advance, this is a really long list :). I like how my first point is exactly the same as yours, that accent really is one of the worst I've ever heard.
– Oh great, a return of David's terrible Irish accent. (Fbzrubj vg frrzf rira jbefr bire ba Natry jura lbh unir Tyra Dhvaa gb pbzcner vg gb).
– Ybbxvat onpx ba vg V rawbl ubj zhpu Natry'f punenpgre jura ur jnf uhzna pbagenfgf jvgu Fcvxr'f. Gur jnl gung gurl jrer obgu ghearq vf cerggl fvzvyne ohg orsber gung gurl jrer pbzcyrgryl qvssrerag. Vg whfg tbrf gb fubj gung Natryhf' nggrzcgf gb znxr uvz uvf urve arire unq zhpu bs n punapr.
– I like how Giles has become an expert on mystery rocks and languages. He has to have some kind of hobby, even if it is demon related.
– I keep noticing how the writers use Giles' reaction to things to judge if you should be worried about them or not. He's kind of like how Aragorn is in lotr, if he's scared then you know that something terrifying's about to happen.
– 'I thought it was riveting, I was little unclear about some of the themes.' Oh Oz, where have you been for the last few episodes?
– 'I think you'd sweat cute blood.' Oddest compliment ever but I love it.
– Hearing about what Angelus did to Dru is one thing but actually seeing him in action is pretty horrific. I always forget this part, possibly because of that.
– How does a random rock inscribed with mysterious markings make the front page of a newspaper? It must have been a slow news day.
– 'vg pbhyq bcra n qbbe gung lbh znl abg or noyr gb pybfr' bu lbh unir ab vqrn Tvyrf.
– I'm generally willing to overlook some of Xander's minor annoying moments but he really is a dick in these episodes.
– Surely the fact that if Angel had a soul he might not go out and kill loads of people for the hell of it is reason enough to do it?
– Oh vague prophecies. I understand the reasoning behind making them vague (as in, if you don't you could create some kind of time paradox and the world might explode) but so many problems could be solved if they made them a bit clearer. (N pregnva cybg va Natry pbzrf gb zvaq, nygubhtu gung jnf n snxr cebcurpl.)
– 'It's a big rock. I can't wait to tell my friends, none of them have a rock this big.' This is why I love you Spike.
– ASH is wearing trousers, he must have been annoyed that day.
– 'I've been using it as a paperweight'. Well done Joss for your use of continuity jokes.
– I like how little patience Spike has for pretentious rituals. He's more about the killing and torturing side of things.
– Whistler! Vg'f hasbeghangr ur pbhyqa'g nccrne va Natry, vg jbhyq unir orra tbbq gb yrnea zber nobhg uvz. Ng yrnfg jr tbg Qblyr vafgrnq.
– I wonder what kind of demon he is. Guvf vf gur svefg gvzr V pna erzrzore gurer orvat n flzcngurgvp qrzba, juvpu vf fbzrguvat V rawblrq nobhg Natry jura gurl qrirybcrq vg zber jvgu cneg qrzbaf yvxr Qblyr naq Ybear nf jryy.
– Guvf cneg frrzf n ovg yvxr n qel eha sbe Natry va n jnl.
– I always find this part with Buffy a little bit creepy, how Angel saw her before they met anyway. It's definitely stalkery.
– 'Huh?' There goes Joss' favourite reaction to anything (see also Mal's reaction when he first sees River in the box in Firefly).
– Time to channel Admiral Akbar and say IT'S A TRAP. She really does never learn.
– How Buffy reacts to Kendra's death is pretty touching. She was her equal and was starting to become her friend. Vg qbrf znxr jnl sbe Snvgu gubhtu, jub V'z rkpvgrq gb frr ubj Znex ernpgf gb.
– Giles is unconscious again. Is anyone keeping count of how often this happens?
– The sight of Willow under that bookcase is heartbreaking rira xabjvat fur fheivirf.
Now I have to try to resist watching the whole of the next series again over the weekend as I really want to keep in line with the reviews on here so I don't confuse myself. I think the third series is actually the one I've watched most as I used to have it on video so this should be fun.
How does a random rock inscribed with mysterious markings make the front page of a newspaper? It must have been a slow news day.
Maybe they were desperate for something that wasn't "Mysterious Death(s)…Again."
True. I can't imagine there's much they can report with all the cover ups. I'm surprised they don't just have 'everything is fine' in capital letters on the front page every day.
Zbafgref qrsvavgryl abg vaibyirq, bssvpvnyf fnl.
Because there are TOO MANY THOUGHTS have a list:
– Oh lord the horrific Irish accent has arrived. You tried David but, no.
– Why don't you rest right there?" hee
– Nice to see Darla again. I can't really remember his exact quote but it's interesting how this ties in with what Angel says in Halloween about how he longed to meet someone more exciting than the noblewomen of his time. Although, does she have the roughest skin ever on her fingers? Because that cut across her chest clearly wasn't being made by her nail.
– hee the fishfinger re-enactment of Buffy slaying the vampire. And HEY OZ! You're back! And being super adorable with Willow!
– Ugh the flashback to human!Drusilla is so sad, to see just what state she was in with her visions, but the cut from that to the modern day with her at her most powerful and scary walking into the mansion is really nicely done. Shows us just how much she's changed.
(splitting because IE is evil)
– "She read it in the paper" hee
– The sequence of Angelus being cursed is done suitably dramatically. With him running along as the woman casts the spell. It fills in the gap of what happened to him and sets up the ritual that WIllow will attempt.
-"erfrnepuvat gur oynpx negf sbe sha" gung yvar xvaq bs frgf hc Jvyybj'f ragver nggvghqr gbjneqf zntvp va frnfbaf svir naq fvk. Vg'f fbzrguvat sha sbe ure.
– Oh historian you must be new to Sunnydale, when there's spooky whispering voices we don't say "Hello" we RUN THE FUCK AWAY!
– Yay Kendra! You're back! And you've brought a sword for Giles to geek out over. Love the callback to Passion with him having an Ord of Thessulah as a paperweight.
– So Buffy's LA highscool was the clocktower from Back to the Future? Cool! It's so weird to see her as the popular girl, the hair feels so Harmony-ish to me.
– Okay no, I'm sorry, I know the show was going for the romantic point of him being there when her life changed but…a BLACKED OUT CAR outside a SCHOOL (a highschool yes but still a SCHOOL)?I get why the blacked out is necessary for Angel but NO! And then watching her at her house…NO!
– That said the scene of Buffy alone overhearing Hank and Joyce arguing is just heartbreaking.
– "Someone wasn't worthy" Ilu Spike.
– Aww the handing over of Mr Pointy is a really sweet moment between the two Slayers, vg'f xvaq bs fvzvyne gb gur funerq qernz jvgu Snvgu arkg frnfba.
– "And you fall for it every single time!" Ouch
– Oh Kendra 🙁 Death by french manicure is a terrible way to go (I make jokes so I won't cry!)
– The slow-mo kicking in as Buffy runs around the corner with her coat billowing out is so pretty and tragic
ab jbaqre vg znxrf vg gb gur bcravat perqvgf
Whistler takes Angel to see Buffy at Hemery High on the day she finds out she is the Slayer.
Am I the only person squicked out by the fact that those two are watching her from a distance like a pair of stalker pedos? And that two-centuries-old Angel just basically fixates at first sight on a FIFTEEN-YEAR-OLD GIRL he knows NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT, and that this obsession of his makes him a better soul-having vampire and ultimately turns to True Love?
(and remember how in Welcome to the Hellmouth he was pretending he was all cool and didn't know who Buffy was?)
Fuck this shit. The only reason I am even sad about the Angelus thing is because it means Buffy is sad, but I detest Broody Wanker "Good" Angel every bit as much as some of us hate "Nice Guy" Xander. They are essentially two sides of the same coin, and getting a pass on way too much stuff.
Sending you ALL OF THE CYBER HUGS Mark because you're going to need them.
FLOPPY DISK!!! I feel vindicated in trying to lean physically into my laptop in "Go Fish" to see if it was on the floor. But now I know I was looking on the wrong side of the desk. Damn.
When we flashed back to 1995 or 1996, I tried to figure out how old I was then and why it felt like that was so long ago and then I realized this wasn't the distant past in Buffy-verse, it was the year before the show began. *headdesk*
So, yes, David Boreanaz's Irish accent was terrible…but it was better than I expected. Low expectations for the win! Plus I got the giggles from it.
I thought Drusilla was from Prague? But she was hidden away in London or something. I don't know, not a big deal, but it threw me off. This was the first episode where I enjoyed Drusilla A LOT. She's usually interesting but she grates on me just a touch.
Vf guvf ubj Jvyybj orpbzrf n jvgpu?!?!?! Rkpvgvat!!! (Let's see if the facts I learned through Harry Potter fanfics where Buffy characters make a cameo holds up because that's where I got my spoilers 🙂 )
If you want the answer to your Drusilla question, rot-13: Ab, fur nyzbfg tbg _xvyyrq_ va Centhr, jurer fur jnf jvgu Fcvxr, n yvggyr gvzr orsber gurve svefg nccrnenapr va Fhaalqnyr. Vs zrzbel freirf, fur jnf Ratyvfu & yvivat va Ratynaq jura Natryhf rg ny. sbhaq naq ghearq ure. Inzcverf, vs yrsg hafgnxrq, graq gb jnaqre gur jbeyq, vg frrzf.
Not really important, tho.
I thought Drusilla was from Prague?
The mob that weakened her was in Prague.
Drusilla is English, which we can tell from her wacky "Cockney" accent. She comes from an undisclosed mining area, and is Catholic. She was sickened/injured/attacked-by-a-mob (take your pick) in Prague at some indeterminate point before coming to Sunnydale. She's a woman of the world!
I adore Dru, but it's entertaining how Angel's accent is so reviled while hers gets a pass.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I just assumed it was a case of "anything resembling a British accent encompasses everything foreign."
Example: Have you ever seen that movie Ever After? It's full of American actors, faking British accents, who are supposed to be French. I thought it was like that. Oops.
(Comic book spoiler)
Fur jnf gnxra ol n zbo, oebhtug gb n fgebatubyq, naq gbegherq jvgu n punve gung qevirf fcvxrf vagb ure obql. Vg'f va bar bs gur vffhrf bs gur pnabavpny Gnyrf Bs Gur Inzcverf zvav-frevrf. Fcvxr erfphrf ure naq gurl tb gb Fhaalqnyr gbtrgure orpnhfr ur jnagf gb xvyy nabgure fynlre, naq ubcrf gur uryyzbhgu jvyy urny ure.
Angel's plan is so silly. If you wipe out all life then WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO EAT YOU NINCOMPOOP?
I'm not really a fan of the "Angel sees pre-Sunnydale Buffy and decides to change his life" story. Naq vfa'g vg zragvbarq fcrpvsvpnyyl gung ur snyyf va ybir jvgu Ohssl gur zbzrag ur svefg frrf ure va YN? V qba'g guvax vg'f va guvf rcvfbqr ohg fbzrjurer ryfr znlor? Gung'f whfg gbb Rqjneq Phyyra sbe zr, rfcrpvnyyl jura gnxra va pbawhapgvba jvgu uvf pelcgvp fgnyxrel orunivbe va frnfba bar.
Unq Wbff qrpvqrq gb tvir Natry uvf fcva-bss ol guvf cbvag? Ner jr gnxr Juvfgyre nf gur cerphefbe gb Qblyr / n zrffratre sebz GCGO?
Zhgnag Rarzl'f gerngzrag bs inzcver & fbhy vffhr orpbzrf fb ceboyrzngvp yngre ba… V ernyyl jvfu gurl unqa'g fperjrq guvf hc. Fcvxr'f gerngzrag va frnfbaf 5-7 xvaqn ehvaf Natry'f bja fgbelyvar qbrfa'g vg? Fbhyyrff Fcvxr vf fgvyy pncnoyr bs ybir naq rzcngul ohg fbhyyrff Natry vf whfg n zbafgre.
I will forever want Buffy's blue jacket.
And also agreed with your last rot13. Such a screwup.
I know right? Each bit taken individually would be OK, but if you put them together, they each make the other impossible!
Guvf vf jung V jnf
snajnaxvatguvaxvat gbb: JVyyvnz jnf n ebznagvp, rzbgvbany uhzna orvat jurernf Natry (jnf uvf anzr Yvnz?) frrzrq gb or … xvaq bs na nff jub qvqa'g tvir n qnza nobhg nalbar ohg uvzfrys ernyyl.Naq vfa'g vg zragvbarq fcrpvsvpnyyl gung ur snyyf va ybir jvgu Ohssl gur zbzrag ur svefg frrf ure va YN? V qba'g guvax vg'f va guvf rcvfbqr ohg fbzrjurer ryfr znlor?
V guvax vg'f "Urycyrff" sebz arkg frnfba, vg znl or nabgure bar ohg V'z cerggl fher vg'f gung rcvfbqr, jvgu gur "V fnj lbh ubyqvat lbhe urneg bhg" … "Gung'f ornhgvshy, be gnxra yvgrenyyl vaperqvoyl tebff." pbairefngvba.
V guvax vg znxrf frafr cflpubybtvpnyyl va gur pbagrkg. Ur unq abguvat naq ab bar sbe 100 lrnef, ab checbfr va yvsr, naq gura n thl pbzrf nybat, gryyf uvz gung ur'f fbzr fbeg bs uvture cbjref ercerfragngvir naq gung ur unf n fcrpvny qrfgval naq fubjf uvz guvf tvey, gryyvat uvz gung uvf arj checbfr abj vf gb uryc ure. Anghenyyl ur yngpurf bagb ure nf gur bayl checbfr ur unf va yvsr ng gung cbvag.
Cyhf, fur ybbxf n ovg yvxr Qneyn. Naq fur'f na "nagv-Qneyn" – vaabprag naq tbbq (naq ur unf n guvat sbe vaabprapr, ohg jura ur vf fbhyyrff vg'f n guvat sbe qrfgeblvat vaabprapr [Qehfvyyn]).
Ohg fbhyrq Natry qbrf cyragl bs onq guvatf, whfg abg ba Ohssl, jurer yrg'f snpr vg, ur ernyyl qbrfa'g trg n ybg bs snpr gvzr.
Jura vg pbzrf gb Ohssl'f frcnengvba bs Natry naq Natryhf, jr'er gnyxvat nobhg gur vqrnyvfz bs n grrantrq tvey. Sbe ure vg unf gb or oynpx naq juvgr orpnhfr fur'f fgvyy va gur "Gjh jhi 4rin" fgntr bs ure yvsr naq gur crefba fur ybirf pna'g cbffvoyl or pncnoyr bs rivy (rira gubhtu ur fb vf).
Angel's plan is so silly. If you wipe out all life then WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO EAT YOU NINCOMPOOP?
LOL these are my favourite sentences that I've read on this site thus far. Seriously, was he just going to live off of rats?
Oh Boreanaz! Why must you take one step forward with your acting abilities, and then leap 10,000 steps back with that "accent?" (Air-quotes because that sound was so atrocious I don't even want to call it an accent.)
I know that Xander is angry at Angel (many people are), but he was not being objective or fair in that argument about restoring Angelus' soul. Restoring the soul would actually HELP PEOPLE, in that Angel would no longer be a danger to anyone and Buffy wouldn't have to suffer the trauma of killing a loved one. I guess Xander (and Cordelia) can't see it that way at this point, but I don't want Buffy to be sad like this anymore. 🙁
Kendra! Hi Kendra! Oh.. bye Kendra. 🙁 That ending, y'all. That speech gets me every time. "Bottom line is, even if you see 'em coming, you're not ready for the big moments. No one asks for their life to change, not really. But it does. So what are we, helpless? Puppets? No. The big moments are gonna come. You can't help that. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are. You'll see what I mean." This episode is all about exploring those moments (both subtle and not-subtle) that MAKE YOU: like Angel deciding to follow a pretty girl down a dark alley, or Buffy meeting a strange man outside of her school. That moment when Buffy is called is great because it is a life-changing deal for both her and Angel, who makes his choice to protect her. (It's sweet in one way, creepy in another. He's pretty much stalking at this point: watching from afar, through windows. BACK OFF, Edward Sparkleson. At least he only watches her sleep when he turns evil.)
I much prefer the idea that Angel suffers for fighting his nature than to one where everything is perfect and ordered and neat and cute and full of mountain lion snacks.
Yes! Not only is is more believable, but the punishment and his choice to become someone means more because he's suffered, and it makes his fall even more dramatic. An endless supply of blood and furry woodland creatures are meaningless.
This is not a democracy, it's a slayocracy! Yeah, that part was uncomfortable to watch (Xander's whole you just want your boyfriend back was REALLY out of line), and in the end, it's up to Buffy. She's the Chosen One, she's the one who's sacrificed the most, and she'll be the one who has to do the deed. She still needs their help and advice, but in the end she should have control over what she does as a slayer. Relatedly, the way her entire demeanor changed from talking to her friends in a bubbly way, to her subdued, post-slay confrontation with her mother was really gut-wrenching. She had to change so fast. SMG did a great job portraying that.
And lastly, I'm upset they brought Kendra back to kill her.
Well you're turning into a slay-tator, Buffy!
I have seen Buffy and this episode more times than I can remember from when it first aired to today, and I still get chills at the end when Buffy is running down the hallway in slow motion and hearing the gun click.
Also, a question for everyone: I want to dress up as Buffy for comic-con (my first time going!) and I want an iconic outfit. What should I wear? I'm not sure if I want to do the white dress from Prophecy Girl, so I was thinking the blue coat from Becoming Part 1.
Fynlre nkr, nyy gur jnl.
I like the blue coat idea. It IS iconic, but I haven't seen lots of people do it, so it would be extra cool. Plus: pretty!
And you could carry around Mr. Pointy!
I do have a stake that I whittled myself. I was walking back from class, saw a piece of wood and thought "that would make a great stake." I just sharpened it a little. But it does't look as cool or gnarly as Mr. Pointy.
Honestly the transition from young, human Drusilla to vampire Drusilla–who has turned into everything she feared being–is one of the saddest moments in the whole show to me. I think because she's sweeping down that staircase, all smiley, fancily dressed, full of confidence and power–but you just saw that she was tortured into being that way, that it was never a choice of hers. We've gotten Drusilla's backstory before obviously but that juxtaposition is so stark and always makes me feel so sad for her.
It's a perfect cut.
Fantastic episode, really, beautifully done so it's few flaws don't stand out so much.
Xander is difficult, but I get his point. Whilst restoring Angel would save the world, I also think there's a sense of loyaly and faith here – Xander I don't think every really doubts that Buffy can succeed. he think she'll win because he believes in her utterly. Still, it is awkward, but these conflicts are what make the interactions of these characetr so brilliant and genuine.
Kendra… ah. See, here is more off the issues with the character. There's a brilliant essay out there that looks at her as a "tragic mulatta" figure and it really has a lot of good points. Her whole journey is about being acceptable and accepted by western standards. Her culture, accent, way of thigns is mocked and seen as inferior in the face of cultural assimilation and ultimatly she can only have true acceptance through death. A shame, but Buffy does have issues here…
-Are ye Irish, Angelus?
-Well that was awkward.
– 🙂 Oz has animal crackers. And Sunny D.
-I love these five.
-So if Snyder knows about the Hellmouth how does he not know about the Slayer. And if he does know about the Slayer why is he making her life difficult.
-Poor Dru :/
-Spike flashback next?
-Chemistry never makes sense but I am always happy when Willow brings out the Mom Voice.
-Deja vu? Did that happen earlier in the ep and I just missed it?
-KENDRA! HI!
-Please no tricking Buffy into pulling out the sword.
-Heh, paperweight.
-Hi Whistler. you seem pretty cool.
-Oh Angel. You were even stalking Valley Girl Buffy?
-Hello Mr. Pointy. I have heard of you.
-Codelia got away!
-What are these hypnotic powers you have, Dru?
-Kendra!!!!!
-GILES!!!!!!
-Noooooooo! Ahhhhhh!!
I watched this early per recommendation (Thank You So Much!) so I will be left to wait 5 days for Part 2. Ironically I am doing this to save my energy for a different show's two-part finale. I don't have much to say besides personal freak outs so I will be returning to my personal torture.
How did I miss the Sunny D?! And why did I ever drink that shit?!
Because it is a delicious explosion of fake citrus in your mouth.
I love the way your reactions are listed: Kendra! Giles! No! This is a perfect summary.
The flashbacks are one of my favourite things in this series, despite accent fails. <3
Here we are… Oh God….Buffy Season 2 Finale !!!!!
Another perfect episode in 2 parts written and directed, of course, by Joss himself.
Angel is and will always feel responsible for what Angelus did. Even if you forgive him, he won't … That's the part of his burden and his life. You should understand more later when you'll watch Angel the series.
This episode is indeed settling the finale confrontation between Angel(us) and Buffy and if you remember the beginning of this season, no one would have imagined that….
So much tension in this episode. I just need the second part now.
And I send help and virtual hugs to anyone who watches it for the first time : NO ONE IS PREPARED.
"ohg V guvax V’z zber rkpvgrq gb frr vs Jvyybj npghnyyl hfrf fbzr qnex zntvp. JUNG VF FUR ORPBZRF N GRPUAB-CNTNA VA WRAAL’F CYNPR? bu zl tbq FRNFBA GUERR. Znxr guvf n ernyvgl!"
YBY YBY YBY YBY. Pbafvqrevat gur riragf bs frnfba 6, OR PNERSHY JUNG LBH JVFU SBE.
idk, I just found Fat!Lee sad, especially after knowing the reason (the main reason, anyway) why he let himself get that way.
Irish!Angel is just straight-up hilarious, I'm not even sorry for him or anything.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ddt4Q.gif">
AHHH WHY IS THIS BROKEN UP OVER THE WEEKEND?? WHY? WHY? WHYYYYYYY?
(I forget who made this gif! Identify yourself so I can give you credit! And puppies)
Oh I've missed this gif, I really have. ^^
Pretty sure it was nanceoir, though my memory could be failing me.
I believe you are correct.
IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL.
It was indeed nanceoir. (I have it saved with nanceoir attached anyway)
thank you!! I'll make a note of it so I don't forget
And thank you for making such wonderful use of it. 🙂
Seriously, I don't wanna wait the weekend!
Mark has his own Tennant gif? This makes me happy.
I chalk it up to the universe wanting us to suffer. 🙁
I can't really comment on this episode: my first time through this arc I had been spoiled for a fair amount regarding later seasons so I just wasn't caught up in the suspense like I should have been, though I didn't know the exact details.
Also, I spend a lot of time loling at how bad Angel is as a vampire. Seriously Angel, just go to the butchers! Or break into a blood bank! Options, you have them!
Anyway, I have few comments, but I do, however, have an amusing anecdote! I was complaining to my friend (a Buffy veteran) about how Sunnydale residents never seem to notice any of the weird shit going on around them, and how looking at TV Tropes, I had discovered that what is now called "Weirdness Censor" was originally called "Sunnydale Syndrome." (Also that TV Tropes apparently originated as a Buffy trope wiki! Which I did not know!) Five seconds later we unpaused the episode and the vampire ran in and burst into flames on screen. It was the most perfect timing I have ever seen. 😀
I don't know, I can kind of see Angel eating rats. He probably feels like he doesn't DESERVE good blood, you know?
Which raises the question, if you're a vampire and you don't get blood, can you die of starvation? Or do you just feel like hell forever?
Jryy, fbbb znal srryvatf ba gurz xvyyvat bs Xraqen. Orpnhfr fur jnf naablvat naq rirelguvat, ohg bayl orpnhfr gurl znqr ure naablvat.
V zrna, xvyyvat bs gur bayl aba-juvgr punenpgre? Jnl gb tb. Univat ure nf n frpbaq fynlre jnf NJRFBZR, naq gurl onfvpnyyl qrfgeblrq guvf ol xvyyvat ure bss, znxvat ure gu "oynpx fynlre (jvgu fbzr crefbanyvgl)" juvyr Snvgu jbhyq tb ba gb unir crefbanyvgl, punenpgre qrirybczrag, VZCBEGNAPR naq, lbh xabj, trggvat n uhhhhtr cneg va nyy bs guvf.
V whfg ernnyyyll ungr ubj juvgr guvf fubj vf. Rira gur frnfba 7 "vagreangvbany" fynlref ner whfg fb… juvgr.
Naq gur gjb fynlref Fcvxr xvyyrq ner whfg… jryy, abg juvgr, ohg gura ntnva, gurl ner bayl gurer sbe Fcvxr'f naq Ebova'f punenpgre nepf naq fghss, naq gung'f xvaq bs tebff, gbb.
Gurfr jbeqf qb abg ercerfrag zl srryvatf rabhtu, ohg V whfg unq gb fnl vg. 🙂
So is killing off a Slayer every finale going to be a trend? (Please don't answer that.)
Poor Kendra, but after Jenny's death, I knew she wasn't safe. I knew someone was going to die. Two Slayers against Angel just seemed too good to be true. BUT this does mean another Slayer is born, right? I mean Kendra is a Slayer because of a technicality, so an actual death means that Buffy should expect more help, probably not any time soon, though.
Too much awesome characters dying. Giles situation is not looking good. He is just too awesome to live. (Anybody guess that I have a thing for badass bookworms?) I mean, my ship is dead, but I would not put it past them to finish the job of destroying everything I hold dear. Which means that Willow and Cordelia are also in danger. Xander might be safe because he already received a debilitating injury, but you never know! Wait, what if Oz shows up for backup just to be killed off? These two-parters have so much tension. WHO IS NEXT? I will probably find out today because I have no will power to wait for the weekend. XP
Gurer'f nyfb Snvgu nyzbfg-qlvat naq raqvat hc va n pbzn va frnfba guerr, juvpu cebonoyl qbrfa'g pbhag ohg vg'f vagrerfgvat gung vg unccraf va gur crahygvzngr rcvfbqr whfg yvxr Xraqen'f.
Cyhf gur fcvevg bs gur svefg fynlre orvat onavfurq ng gur raq bs Frnfba Sbhe. Gung fbeg bs pbhagf, evtug?
Naq Ohssl syngyvarf va Frnfba Fvk. Juvpu znxrf vg rirel fvatyr frnfba, n Fynlre qvrf, nyzbfg qvrf, be gur Svefg Fynlre qvrf.
"and then how awful it is that the curse makes Angel suffer for what the demon essentially did."
Okay, but the thing is, that "Angel" can only be Angel because he suffers as a result of what Angelus did. So I dunno, as far as I see it, Angel is not Angelus but he's also not the person he was before he was made into a vampire. Is this too obvious. So I wouldn't call the guilt unfair just kind of essential to his being, Angel can't exist without being a product of Angelus. Angel suffers for what he did, I think that's the absolute minimum price you can ask for his continuing to exist. An even better compensation would be like actively working to do some good, and no just fanboying and staring at the slayer doesn't count, but we'll get to there. But basically, I don't see the two as separate entities.
What else:
<3 Julie Benz
The flashback detail about Dru having premonitions back when she was human was indeed very cool, I'd totally forgotten that was here.
Again, the hanging out in public buildings after dark thing!!! Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick people buy a vowel and get a clue my blood pressure can't handle it.
Kendra you were so pretty and all around awesome and I'll miss you.
I don't know if anyone's gonna talk about this at this point but everything the lunchtime scene with the kids and Snyder was pretty damn flawless. "Is there a chair shortage?"
They actually shine a big spotlight in all the cracks in the group and it's kind of painful but well done.
Also I actually really liked Whistlers' voiceover at the end.
Negatives: Buffy's blue coat, Buffy does Kendra's accent again, Oz disappearing for most of the episode.
Again, the hanging out in public buildings after dark thing!!! Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick people buy a vowel and get a clue my blood pressure can't handle it.
RIGHT?
<img src="http://i41.tinypic.com/4ub61z.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
OMG Stephen Fry wore a fez once and I had no idea!
I'm pretty sure it was one of the Christmas episodes of Q.I. if that helps. 😛
I'm not sure, but is this from the episode with Daniel Radcliffe. That's the only episode of Q.I. I've seen, and I just figured that he always wore a fez. I think he's talking to someone who keeps saying that ceiling is and example of breaking the rule "I before E except after C."
I found it!!!
[youtube 3vOi5M6GP_Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vOi5M6GP_Q youtube]
Thanks. Amazingly even though I see gifs for this show all over the place I had no idea what is was.
If you like random facts and humour you should give it a go. It's always entertaining.
Oh I so will add it to the list of like 50% of everything Britain has ever produced that I will be watching.
IT IS THE BEST NON-FICTION SHOW EVER. All my love for QI, which has introduced me to so many wonderful things. &heartsssss;
I would pay good money to hear Stephen Fry say "Fezes are cool."
omg I love that coat, it's really pretty and the colour is my favourite colour 😀
Agreed on "Angel" can only be Angel because he suffers as a result of what Angelus did. Even though he regains his soul Angel is a completely different person to who he was before he became Angelus. I mean stumbling drunk out of a bar and talking about stealing his dad's silver doesn't quite match up with the Angel we know after he was cursed and had to deal with the consequences of Angelus' actions. Although I do sort of see them as separate individuals, I don't see them as independent entities.
Yeah, in the same way as I'm "not the same person" that I was in high school, I still feel totally responsible for whatever I did then. I draw distinctions between that Angelus->ensouled Angel and the transformation that Angel went through from human->vampire, I think there's more of a disconnect between his mortal life and his immortal one than his souled vs soulless vampire. I don't know if I'm making sense at all but that's how I always read it.
I am not even joking––this comment blew my mind for an entire weekend. O_O
I hope that's cause it's interesting and not just incredibly confusing, but I'll take what I can get!
I love your thoughts on Angelus/Angel. Clearly, neither of them are that lout back in Ireland.
But! Do not diss the blue coat! So pretty. Buffy likes to be pretty when she slays. She dressed for a showdown, bless her.
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, BUFFY'S BLUE COAT IS GORGEOUS. I coveted it when I was 15, I still covet it now (not helped by gur snpg gung vg'f va gur PERQVGF guebhtu nyy bs F3, 4 naq vvep 5)
Okay damn I take back what I said about the coat. I mean I would never wear it, but I'm not even wearing pants right now so don't listen to me if you don't want to.
Becoming Part 1
-Oh wow flashbacks. Waayy back. I think I'm going to love this and that it's going to hurt.
-Hey…That's Darla. I didn't know she was involved with Angel….or really I guess i did, but I didn't realize they went so far back.
-So maybe this was silly of me, but I really didn't think that we'd deal with the disk this soon.
-Xander, a world where you are the voice of reason is not a world i want to live in. She wants to forget about Ms. Calendar to get her boyfriend back. Um…what's wrong with this? If we believe that Angel and Angelus are different entities that share memories isn't…isn't that ok?
-Kendra!!!! I am so happy to see Kendra again.
-Ok this demon guy Whistler is interesting and the other Watcher too. I have to say that I was kind of terrified that they were going to set up Angel to have like been behind Buffy's success as Slayer. Like I was afraid (maybe I still am afraid, because I'm sure there's more to the Angel stalks Buffy, but for good, thing than we've been shown so far.) that it would really undermine the way I think about Buffy and her badassery.
-I haven't said this before, but I really love how the demons/vampires are so…the only word that fits there is…religious… but they're kind of the opposite of religious because of their goals? Or maybe ritualistic is a better word. The incantations and rituals that they specifically use do seem pretty evocative of religion, (they read Catholic to me, but that is my background so I'm predisposed to thinking that)
-Self-immolating vampire? I…don't know how to deal with this.
-How adorable is Mr. Pointy?!
-He's right she does always fall for that!
-Willoooow!
-Oh. Oh no. I knew I shouldn't be so happy about Kendra…
-OH FUCK! The real world is colliding with the Slayer world in a terrible terrible way. And I'm watching Part 2 tomorrow (meaning tonight) because there's no way I can stand sitting on this cliffhanger until Sunday!
After reading the review I realized that I totally missed the vampires kidnapping Giles! Things are much worse than I thought!
"-Hey…That's Darla. I didn't know she was involved with Angel….or really I guess i did, but I didn't realize they went so far back. "
In "Angel" she said she was the one who made him a vampire and that they were together for a long time.
"Um…what's wrong with this? If we believe that Angel and Angelus are different entities that share memories isn't…isn't that ok? "
But none of the characters seem to believe that. If they did, wouldn't Buffy or Willow say "Well Angel is not responsible because it's not him"? But they don't.
I can't wait for Monday and the finale where Angel hands out ice cream cones to everyone that magically produce puppy dogs and rainbows. And then Spike and Drusilla and little sprinkly toppings on the ice cream cones. Not the most dramatic finale, ever, but everyone felt so relieved for having watched it. Although I think Giles saving a burning orphanage was a bit on the cheesy side.
It really is the best season finale ever.
Oh man! You gave it away!
Oh, but the orphanage is such an important plot point for the spin off, where Angel makes the bad people pay for trying to burn it down. And then all the orphans will have a happy family.
My favorite part is when they reveal that all the pain and torment we've been seeing so far was actually Principle Snyder's dream.
Gah! I'm so so so happy you've made it to this episode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is my favorite two-parter in the series run.
Of course, now I have to wait a whole weekend to read what you think of part two, so that's kind of sad, but oh well.
Oh, Buffy pre-Slayer days. You can understand why her mother was so concerned about her in the first season. She pretty much made a complete 180 from her original self.
Drusilla kills Kendra! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I liked Kendra she was cool and pretty much the only person of color in this show!
Here’s my theory as far as demons inhabiting people a la the way they do in vampires here. By becoming a vampire, you are dead. Your soul, the thing that makes you human, is gone. So a demon takes your place, inhabits your body, digs through your mind and uses every gross thing you could have ever imagined. Any nasty thing that you thought about but never did because it’s wrong, the vampire demon does, because the demon doesn’t care. The demon has almost free reign on Earth to do whatever the fuck it wants. So it possesses your personality because it’s fun. And it changes as it goes along because everything changes the older it gets. Imagine poor Drusilla just before she was turned. She was driven insane so the demon that occupies her gets kind of a shattered form of her power and mind. The vehicle affects the driver a bit, but the driver can still be in control. So with Angel regaining his soul due to the gypsy curse, all those things he imagined doing, all those things he wanted to do to prove that he was a man and strong were done. By him. He doesn’t see it as the demon that still inhabits him doing that, it was his body and therefore him. Hence his years of penance through suffering on Earth. And then he sees Buffy and wants to help. It’s very nice.
"Gypsy" is a slur – per the site rules and slurs on this site: "You are allowed to use them to talk ABOUT them, but are not allowed to USE them to talk."
Therefore please do not simply describe the curse as a "gypsy curse" unless you are making a point about the use of the word "gypsy."
"Gypsy" is a slur – per the site rules re slurs on this site: "You are allowed to use them to talk ABOUT them, but are not allowed to USE them to talk."
Therefore please do not simply describe the curse as a "gypsy curse" unless you are making a point about the use of the word "gypsy."
I know that gypsy is a slur. They refer to it in the show as "the gypsy curse" every once in a while and it gets stuck in your head. It's not intentional and if you find it too offensive, edit it and replace it with Romani.
I was simply trying to address the site rules to make sure you were aware of them, as I wasn't sure you were, and to ask you not use it in the future on this site. Also, I missed it the first time, but please also don't use "insane" on this site.
But Angel drove Drusilla insane. He says that. He followed her and tortured her and broke her mind and turned her into a vampire because he thought it was amusing. Why is that a slur when it's referring to a character who is mentally unstable?
Because "insane" isn't a medical or psychiatric diagnosis and it carries a lot of baggage where it has widely been used to discredit and hurt people.
Please do not try to argue this. I am telling you as a moderator this is not allowed.
God someone help I can't stop having new thoughts on this episode
Anyway Xander in that confrontational group scene is a shining example of what I really, really hate about his character. I have problem enough with the fact that he's coldly telling Buffy to kill Angel when there's a chance they can restore his soul, but there's something just really monumentally creepy about him there. The way he says "Is that right…" when she says she cares about Angel getting his soul back (like that's such a wild viewpoint to have, wtf???) puts my hair on end. IT'S SO FUCKING CREEPY. He sounds almost predatorial, and combined with the way he's treated literally every love interest and relationship of Buffy's, taking that tone of voice about discussing killing her boyfriend and being so nonchalant toward the trauma she would incur is just…god it's just really off-putting. I'm glad that Willow and Giles seem disgusted by it (especially Giles for Xander using Jenny's death against him, jfc).
Today's Badly Translated episode name:
Original text:
"Becoming: Part 1"
…35 translations later Bing gives us:
"Ward office can be found here:"
I give up on trying to do rewatches. I remember the season 3 episodes a lot better though, so I'll be able to comment on those ones without re-watching. 😀
"It's a big rock. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big." <3
Spike's snark is so fantastic. =)
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Not really a fan of Buffy's sudden deja vu (woulda been neater if the pencil dropping to the ground had been placed in one of her dreams/previous episodes, like maybe a certain french monkey knocking it off the table or something!) and finding the floppy disk!
The fan club for Mr Pointy starts today!
Mr. Pointy love!!!
My family has a Siamese cat named Spike (after the vampire). When he is in a feline bad mood and brings out the claws, we joke that his evil alter-ego is named Mr. Pointy.
As a long-time Buffy idolizer, I had several articles of clothing that I bought specifically because Buffy had worn something similar at some point in time. The blue trench coat from the last scene was the my first inspiration. Most of my Buffy outfits have worn out from my constant wearing of them, but I actually still have the blue trench coat and wear it occasionally.
I got a garden stake with a tag saying "Hello, my name is MR. POINTY" for my 20th birthday from a friend.
I'm 32 now.
My biggest question about this season of Buffy (spoilers up to S5 below) is:
jung qbrf Qnja erzrzore bs guvf gvzr? Qvq fur xabj Ohssl jnf gur Fynlre, be jnf fur xrcg va gur qnex yvxr Wblpr naq unq ab pyhr nobhg ure fvfgre'f oblsevraq gheavat vagb na rivy fgnyxre?
Jung qbrf fur erzrzore nobhg Natryhf pbzvat bire gb gur ubhfr, naq nobhg Snvgu-va-Ohssl'f-obql, be rira nobhg Fcvxr pbzvat bire gb trg fbzr Ntbal Nhag gvzr jvgu Wblpr va Frnfba 3? FB IREL PHEVBHF URER (and kind of itching to write the fanfic).
According to the Dark Horse comics:
Qnja sbhaq Ohssl'f qvnel jurer fur gnyxrq nobhg inzcverf, naq fubjrq vg gb gurve cneragf. Gurl gubhtug Ohssl jnf qryhfvbany naq frag ure gb n zragny vafgvghgvba. (Gur snpg gung fur whfg ohearq qbja gur fpubby tlz nyfb urycrq gurz ernpu gung pbapyhfvba…)
Cerfhznoyl gur qbpgbef gurer sbhaq gung Ohssl jnf dhvgr fnar, naq frag ure ubzr ntnva nsgre n pbhcyr bs jrrxf bs bofreingvba. Nsgre gung, Wblpr frrzf gb unir whfg nffhzrq gung 15-lrne byq Ohssl'f gnyx nobhg inzcverf jnf whfg n jrveq snagnfl cunfr fur jrag guebhtu, naq qvfzvffrq vg sebz ure zvaq. Qnja, ba gur bgure unaq, qbrf frrz gb unir oryvrirq gur gehgu.
V ernq zl byqre fvfgre'f qvnel jura V jnf n xvq, gbb. Fnqyl fur qvqa'g gnyx nobhg inzcver fynlvat. Whfg oblf.
hahahaha as a human Angel got tossed out of bars, stumbled around drunk, robbed his dad for money, hung out in disreputable alleys, and might been a bit of a womanizer from how we see him approach Darla. I love how he actually reminds me more of soulless!Angel that the traumatized, broody Buffy-boyfriend version.
This was the episode that sealed my eternal love for the Spike character. He is just so delightfully sarcastic and disdainful.
Xander, though? siiiiigh. I really loved him earlier in the episode, but the scene where he's tearing into Buffy is just upsetting to me.
On one hand, I think he's not really making much sense. If he'd said, "it's too dangerous to re-soul Angel because it would make Willow a target" then I would absolutely get that rationale. But instead his logic just comes off to me like tons of bitterness are affecting his ability to reason properly, except he accuses everyone else of being ruled by their emotions and stands around all prideful and nasty.
Because, wait, you don't want to use the 1 massive weapon that you have in your possession, because. um, basically because it's not FAIR? You don't want to do something that would keep Buffy from risking her life in fighting to the death someone who you know she's had problems defeating in the past? When, if people really decide Angel MUST DIE, they could still kill him afterward? You know, when he's not a loose canon killing machine? When it could be done by someone else other than poor Buffy? Nope, because you never liked Angel and your personal interpretation of justice takes precedence over other people's lives and Buffy's emotional and physical safety. Niiice.
And it's not really that he's wrong, it's the whole tone of the argument and how he treats the other people. It's really the self-righteous nature of it that's so off-putting to me. I just really DO NOT WANT him assigning himself the moral "reasonable" highground and then being all, shame on you Buffy for your irrational emotions! (especially since his reaction is totally emotional, hello hypocrisy). And the way he co-opts and uses Jenny's death, in the face of Giles' real, much more personal connection to her? Makes me feel icky.
The traumatized, broody Angel was a result of lots of guilt over the terrible crimes he committed over the previous 150 years. Experience shapes people's personalities.
oh yeah, I completely agree. And not just the guilt about all that he had been capable of & enjoyed with his conscience removed, but I theorize that a lot of it also had to do with extended isolation from both humans and vampire kind, the alienation from any group that would have him — always knowing that, truly, there was NO group in the world that would completely accept and understand him. LOL OMG SOULED!ANGEL IS BASICALLY AN IMMORTAL TEENAGER.
Jura pbzcnevat Fcvxr naq Natry, vg'f jrveq gung gur guerr qvssrerag snprgf bs gurve punenpgref (uhzna, hafbhyrq inzcverq, naq fbhyrq inzcver) eryngr gb rnpu bgure qvssreragyl. Yvxr uhzna Yvnz vf pybfrfg gb hafbhyrq inzcver Natry naq fbhyrq Natry vf n irel qvssrerag xvaq bs orvat; jurernf sbe Fcvxr uhzna Jvyyvnz vf irel qvssrerag sebz hafbhyrq Fcvxrq, ohg hafbhyrq naq fbhyrq Fcvxr ner engure fvzvyne.
But instead his logic just comes off to me like tons of bitterness are affecting his ability to reason properly, except he accuses everyone else of being ruled by their emotions and stands around all prideful and nasty.
YES THIS
Yeah, it's one of the reasons that I disliked Xander.
Another one was:
"V'z fbeel gung lbhe ubarl jnf n qrzba, ohg zbfg tveyf qba'g ubc n Terlubhaq bire obl gebhoyrf"
V'yy fnir zl pbzzragf nobhg gung yvar sbe gur rcvfbqr, vg'f abg gbb sne bss, vf vg? Wbl! (fnepnfz)
UGH.
I know that maybe two of you might see this, but the opening of this review is key to understanding why the desire to correct my opinions is sort of not a good idea? Like, so many people jumped on me for saying Angel "deserved" what he got in "Innocence" and wanted me to make sure that I understood every detail of Angel's soul thingy, when I could have just waited for this episode.
SO. I KNOW YOU WILL WANT TO CORRECT ME. just let me be blissfully ignorant and wrong so that i can apologize and take my foot out of my mouth later, okay?
THANK YOU.
I have an explanation that is based entirely on episodes you have seen already, though. Would that be okay?
Generally, no. Half the fun of this is trying to figure this out on my own, and being corrected takes away some of that.
Plus, you have to realize that even if you think the info is only from those episodes I've seen already, you have the luxury of eight seasons' worth of material AND context that would allow you to perfect and refine those opinions. Some of the worst spoiling comes from that sort of stuff because you don't realize that the smallest detail might have been tainted by future knowledge.
As it is in this review, I think it's a good demonstration of me being able to go HOLY SHIT I WAS SO WRONG, and that's much more satisfying for me to write about than saying, "Well, someone told me I was wrong," you know?
I hope that makes sense!
I can't wait until you get even further down the line, and have enough ammunition to debate your favorite meta points of contention (I mean DISCUSS. DISCUSS LIKE POLITE ADULTS). 😀
For all first-time viewers, besides the blissfully ignorant Mark: please don't be intimidated by the rest of us knowing more canon than you do at this point! That often doesn't actually mean we Know The Answers. A lot of the time, we're just sharing our opinions too and sounding really confident about it. LOL. If I've ever done this to people, I sincerely apologize. I always want to know people's different theories!
I think you should just make your own opinions as you go along. Listening to other people will only confuse you, since the fandom is split when it comes to some issues, including that of Angel's soul/responsibility.
I dearly love this pair of episodes, and think everyone who worked on them did an amazing job. The acting is top notch but the one thing that randomly bugs me is David's diction.
Who is this Cathla he's talking about? Is he related to the big block guy called Acathla that everyone else is worried about?
"Here in the first part of “Becoming,” I realize just how much I really didn’t understand about Angel and Angelus, and how those are two separate entities in a way. "
Uh, I'm confused – what made you think so? Is it just the fact that some people in the comments are insisting that they are two separate entities? It seems so, since nobody on the show is even using the name "Angelus" at this point – only Jenny did in once in Innocence – and none of the characters seem to think they are two separate entities.
If you are only thinking that they are two separate entities because other people here are saying that – believe me, it's not a good enough reason, since it's just the opinion of some of the fans. Many, if not most fans, believe that Angel and "Angelus" are one and the same entity.
I certainly don't see anything in this episode that would make you think that they are different entities, or that "Angel" isn't responsible for what "Angelus" did. Quite the opposite.
The Gypsies plan would make no sense if (they at least don’t believe that) souled and soulless Angel aren’t the same person. They cursed the killer of their favorite daughter to suffer remembering his crimes. Why would they curse some poor guy to suffer for another one’s crimes, if “Angelus” (though nobody is calling him that in this episode, either) is the one responsible but isn’t even suffering?
(quotes from Whedon's original script for the episode)
GYPSY MAN
It hurts, yes? Good. It will hurt more.
ANGEL
Where am I?
GYPSY MAN
You don't remember. Everything
you've done. For a hundred years.
In a moment you will. The face of
everyone you have killed – our
daughter's face — they will haunt
you and you will know what true
suffering is.
ANGEL
Killed? I don't. . .
And then it hits him.
ANGEL
Oh. . . no. . . no. . .
We see the two of them from a distance, the old man standing over the kneeling Angel, as Angel begins to scream.
And so he does remember, just not immediately. Fbzrguvat gb xrrc va zvaq nf jr cercner gb jngpu cneg 2.
Xander also believes that Angel is the same person either way, and Buffy, Willow and Giles must believe that, too, or else they would have countered his argument with “But Angel isn’t responsible since this evil guy is someone else!”
Bs pbhefr, bapr lbh npghnyyl frr NgF, gur jubyr "Natry naq Natryhf ner gjb qvssrerag ragvgvrf" gurbel fgbcf znxvat frafr nf vg jbhyq ehva gur ragver cerzvfr bs gur fubj, gung bs Natry ybbxvat sbe erqrzcgvba, abg gb zragvba gung uvf vagrenpgvbaf jvgu Qneyn, Craa, Wnzrf, Ubygm, Fcvxr naq Ynjfba jbhyq znxr ab frafr jungfbrire. Naq abg gb zragvba ubj Fcvxr, Qneyn naq Unezbal nyy irel fgebatyl qvfcebir gur "gjb ragvgvrf" gurbel.
Please don't use "gypsy" on this site unless you are talking about the word itself. For reference, I am referring to "The Gypsies plan" in your comment and not the script part, as I am aware that is a quote and quoting things with slurs in them is not itself against the site rules.
Ba gur bgure unaq, va NgF jr gnxr gur gevc jvgu Snvgu (naq qehtf) guebhtu Natry'f zvaq naq frr ubj zhpu Natryhf vf gbegherq ol Natry'f uhznavgl… naq gurl ner frcrengr rabhtu gung gurl yvgrenyyl svtug rnpu bgure.
Nyfb, Fcvxr'f er-rafbhyzrag jnf ibyhagnel, naq xarj jung jnf pbzvat, naq gubhtu ur fcrag n srj jrrxf (be ng zbfg, n srj zbaguf) tbvat znq sebz vg, ur erpbirerq snveyl dhvpxyl… vg gbbx Natry zber yvxr avargl LRNEF gb pbcr. Yvnz jnfa'g gur zbfg hcfgnaqvat thl, fher, ohg ur jnf onfvpnyyl n qehaxra ybfre. Ur zrrgf n ubg ynql, jub ur cebonoyl thrffrf vf n ovg zber guna fur nccrnef pbafvqrevat fur frrzf pbzsbegnoyl ng ubzr va na nyyrl jvgu "n erchgngvba yvxr [gung] bar…" Gb fhqqrayl onfvpnyyl tb sebz gung thl, gb univat enpxrq hc lrnef bs gbegher, xvyyvat, naq bgure greevoyr qrrqf… vg'f ab jbaqre gung ur pbhyqa'g unaqyr vg.
V jbhyq rira iragher gb fnl gung Fcvxr jbhyqa'g ybfr uvf fbhy sebz unccvarff, orpnhfr ur vfa'g phefrq.
Bs pbhefr Fcvxr jbhyqa'g ybfr uvf fbhy sebz cresrpg unccvarff, gung pynhfr vf cneg bs gur Ebznav phefr.
LET US BEGIN THIS ROLLER COASTER OF EMOTIONS
-Lol, nice. Just let your friend pass out in the street, Angel.
-Yay! So nice to see Darla again. She looks gorgeous in that outfit too. Cool story: my sister imitated that dress for a Darla Halloween costume, complete with fangs. Now I'm trying to one her up and do a vamp costume with the forehead prosthetic and yellow eyes. Sadly, it's expensive 🙁
-Angel, I am an American who often can't tell the difference between certain accents and even I can tell your Irish accent is terrible.
-This is the first time we see the process of someone being turned into a vampire, unless I'm mistaken. I've always wondered though, what if the other person knew what was going on and refused to suck the vamp's blood? Couldn't they spit it out? Although, I guess the blood loss from the bite could in theory make them woozy enough they can't fight it.
-”Oh yeah, finals! Why didn't you let me die?”
-I want to find someplace with obscure relics. History stuff!
-Giles, you shouldn't have told them it could be opened.
-Okay, I love the cheesestick fight complete with toothpick stake.
-Oz is back! Where ya been, man?
-Aaawww, Cordy and Xander have gotten so cute! “Don't touch me, you have fish hands!” I love it.
-Ooooh, Dru flashback! I love Angel's “Oh shit” moment when he realizes someone is trying to confess to the priest he just ate.
-Juliet Landau is doing a good job showing us the human Drusilla. I feel so bad for her, thinking her psychic powers make her evil. 🙁
-A mysterious obelisk makes front page news?
-Floppy disk!! And convenient deja vu! And now they know why she died.
-Giles, I love when you get all concerned-daddy with the Scoobies.
-Xander, shut up about “crazy” people. Also, stop it with the “who cares” BS. You HAVE no perspective! If Angel gets his soul back, people get to stop dying. Also, do not sass Giles over Jenny! HOW DARE YOU! Why do you always do this when I start liking you again?
-Thank you Willow for giving him that judgey look. Actually, I love that they all give him the side-eye.
-”Willow! Where did you learn that word!” I want to know what word she used to describe Xander! Possibly douchebag, or something similar?
-Oh no, Buffy/Angel theme. Insta-sad. (I DON'T EVEN SHIP IT WHY DOES THIS UPSET ME)
-KENDRA!!! 8D
-I'm not loving the hell part either, Willow.
-How very convenient, Giles. I do like the callback to the shopkeeper saying he had to sell the orbs as paper weights though.
-Oh, Angel, that's just sad. You needed this guy to tip you off to the fact there are butchers with blood?
-Also, good demons. More moral ambiguity about slaying!
-Oh, I have been waiting for a chance to use this gif!
<img src="http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/Mad_icons/creeperalert.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
I also choose to believe that he fell in "empathy" with her, because I want to avoid creepiness.
-Cordelia!Buffy with lolipop is cute.
-Noooo, not the parents yelling in the background and the crying. :'( This is too familiar a scene for my tastes.
-”Someone wasn't wooorthyyy~” Haha, ILU, Spike.
-Well, THAT was dramatic and silly. And of course, they fall for it and no one in the class freaks out the way they should.
-Mr. Pointy is awesome.
-Nooo, didn't you guys learn from the last time this happened in the first episode of the season!?
-WILLOW!
Nooo, Dru is coming. Nonono, I don't like this part!
-Nooooooooo, KENDRA! I DON'T LIKE YOU ANYMORE, DRU! FUCK YOU!
-This narration at the end. 🙁
-Buffyyyy
-OH FUCK, THE POLICE
-”You'll see what I mean” don't taunt us
WHY DOES EVERYONE I LOVE DIE OR GET TERRIBLY INJURED OR EMOTIONALLY DESTROYED!??
Joss, why do you hate our feelings? :'(
IA with your gif. SUCH a creeper.
Haha, well, I didn't make it. It's pretty common in the Buffy fan community on tumblr. I wish I knew who made it.
that is one flawless gif.
"-Oh no, Buffy/Angel theme. Insta-sad. (I DON'T EVEN SHIP IT WHY DOES THIS UPSET ME) "
Because it makes Buffy so sad and she's so sad all the time anyway and it just makes her sadder.
Yes, this. I don't like seeing Buffy upset. 🙁
All of the upvotes for that gif! LOOK HOW CREEPY HE'S BEING!
WHY DOES EVERYONE I LOVE DIE OR GET TERRIBLY INJURED OR EMOTIONALLY DESTROYED!??
Joss, why do you hate our feelings? :'(
Pretty sure it's not only the characters you love. Joss is an equal-opportunity tormenter.
Wow, I don't think I've ever watched this episode without watching part 2 immediately before… I like that it gave me more time to think, but at the same time… I WANT TO KEEP WATCHING!!! Okay, moving on to my 7000000 thoughts:
-OMG that accent on top of that hair? Come on Angel.
-OZ AND WILLOW BEING ADORABLE YAY! Since this episode, it has been the tragedy of my life that no one has ever told me I would sweat cute blood 🙂
-Snyder why do you hate happiness????? Willow should never NOT be sitting on Oz's lap what are you thinking???
-Seeing human Dru makes me sad. She wanted so badly to be good, and Angel took that possibility away from her forever 🙁
-"No you ninny, she read it in the morning paper." ILU SPIKE
-Xander, you may have a point about Angel, although that's definitely a messy moral area. What's not a gray area? Throwing "yeah, well, Jenny's dead" in Giles' face. HE KNOWS THAT and you saying it like that was unnecessary and cruel and definitely NOT being Perspective Guy.
-Imprinting on a 15 year old is not cool Angel (I apologize for the Twilight reference, but…. it was right there). However, pre-Slayer Buffy will never not be hilarious and awesome to me.
-"It's a big rock. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big" Shortly followed by "Someone wasn't worthy." Spike, you are perfect.
-I don't think I ever caught until this time through the parallels to the first episode in this one, with Angel obviously baiting her so he can get to her friends.
-Jvyybj, onpx njnl sebz gur Vagrearg. Ab oynpx negf sbe lbh! Yvfgra gb Tvyrf! Gurer'f na 'neqbhe' be jungrire gung'f uneq gb erfvfg! WHFG FGBC.
-Giles Knock Out Count goes up to 9.5. Will we hit double digits by the end of season 2??? Tune in Monday lol
Ohg vs fur qvqa'g trg vagb zntvp fur jbhyqa'g unir zrg Gnen, naq gura zl OgIF BGC jbhyqa'g or!
Gubhtu V nterr fur fubhyq tb rnfl ba vg. Qnex Jvyybj sevtugraf zr. Q8
How did you end up with a .5 in the knockout count?
Bbu lbh znxr na rkpryyrag cbvag. V fhccbfr Jvyybj naq Gnen ner jbegu vg qrfcvgr ubj vg raqf *favss*
The .5 came from Out of Mind, Out of Sight when Giles was thisclose to being unconscious from the gas when Angel came in and saved them. I asked what people thought I should do, and the .5 was what they decided 🙂
V unir ab vqrn jung lbh'er gnyxvat nobhg. Jvyybj naq Gnen ner unccvyl zneevrq naq envfvat ornhgvshy onovrf naq gurer vf ab bgure ernyvgl V jvyy npprcg.
(Bu tbq frnfba fvk vf tbvat gb or uneq)
Oh, yeah I suppose that does make sense.
Yby lrnu V whfg zrnag nyy gung jrveq qenzn jvgu gur pnxr naq gur oevqrfznvqf qerffrf (Ohssl pna or fb cvpxl!). Jung ryfr jbhyq V or gnyxvat nobhg?
F6 vf… abg cerggl. V qba'g ungr vg gur jnl fbzr crbcyr frrz gb, ohg vg vf qrsvavgryl gur zbfg qrcerffvat naq V pna haqrefgnaq jul vg'f ungrq. V nyfb qba'g ungr Xraarql, ohg V jbhyq genqr ure sbe Gnen va nccebkvzngryl .0087 frpbaqf abg tbaan yvr 🙂
Gur zbfg qrcerffvat cneg vf gung guvf jnf NYZBFG tbvat gb or svkrq va frnfba frira . Wbff fnvq gung bevtvanyyl ur jnagrq gb qb na rcvfbqr arne gur raq bs gur frnfba jurer Ohssl jbhyq or tvira gur punapr gb znxr bar fvatyr yvsr-nygrevat jvfu. Fur jnf tbvat gb serg gur jubyr gvzr bire jung gb qb, fur jbhyq rira pbagrzcyngr znxvat Natry uhzna. Ohg ng gur raq, fur jnf tbvat gb gryy Jvyybj fur jvfurq sbe fbzrguvat fvyyl yvxr fubrf, naq fgrc nfvqr gb erirny Gnen. Gurl jrera'g noyr gb qb guvf gubhtu orpnhfr Nzore Orafba jnf haninvynoyr sbe svyzvat.
Abeznyyl V trg naablrq jura GI fubjf oevat crbcyr onpx sebz gur qrnq gbb bsgra, ohg va gur pnfr bs Gnen? ABCR, QBA'G PNER. V JNAG GUVF GB OR N GUVAT GUNG UNCCRAF.
Lrnu, V urneq nobhg gung va fbzr bs gur frnfba 7 pbzzragnel, nygubhtu abg gur jubyr qrfpevcgvba bs gur fprar, whfg gung ur jnagrq gb oevat Gnen onpx. V jbhyq unir orra fb unccl… Gung vf tbvat gb znxr vg rira jbefr jura V'z erjngpuvat gubfr rcvfbqrf abj 🙁
Im kinda new to this site, so I have a question: how do you decipher the spoiler gibberish? 🙂
Go here, this is what people use to cipher spoilers: http://www.rot13.com/index.php
Thanks! 🙂
Welcome! You can go to rot13.com to decipher it. And for future reference, there's a newly created FAQ page linked at the top of the page that newcomers should make sure to read. I say this cause you'd find your answer there.
My bad. Sorry. Thanks 🙂
Or study the ancient texts of Cthulhu.
Destiny vs Free, that's the big theme of the episode. As the title says, it is all about transformation, about becoming someone/something else. Flashbacks show people becoming something new due to fate, to circumstances they couldn’t control, to something that someone else did to them, or to an intervention of higher powers, while the present day plot is about what is done to our heroes, the situation they’ve been put in. Cneg 2, ba gur bgure unaq, vf nobhg crbcyr znxvat gurve bja pubvprf, pubbfvat ubj gb qrny jvgu gur fvghngvba gurl’ir orra chg va. .
The last scenes are really memorable and dramatic. Buffy fell for the same trap as in When She Was Bad, as Angel points out. Drusilla has never been as creepy as in this episode, when she first shows her hypnotic powers. (That makes her only the second vampire we've seen exhibit hypnotic powers – the other one was the Master. Kendra's death was really sad. She devoted her life to slaying, and died young, just as most Slayers are sadly expected to. With her slaying partner dead, Willow with a life-threatening injury, and Giles kidnapped, things look incredibly bleak for Buffy, and then on top of it the police arrive and are about to arrest her for murder.
“Bottom line is, even if you see them coming, you're not ready for the big moments. No one asks for their life to change, not really. But it does.
So what are we, helpless? Puppets? No. The big moments are gonna come. You can't help that. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are. You'll see what I mean.”
Great setup for the finale.
I love the flashbacks in this episode, despite DB's terrible accent,and despite the serious inconsistency: Angel’s year of birth and vamping is different from what we learned in Halloween. Willow said that Giles’ Watcher books said that Angel was 18 in 1775, which would make his human birth date 1757. It's great to have Darla back and to see Angel's, Drusilla's and Buffy's pasts, and how they *became* who they are.
1) Angel becoming a vampire. Darla is here in her full glory as an 18th century femme fatale; the schoolgirl uniform didn't do her justice. I think it's the first time we see the full process of siring. The image is both erotic and reminiscent of a child sucking on his mother’s breast, which is fittings since Darla is both Angel’s lover and his “mother”. Our first glimpse of human Angel shows that he wasn't a brooding, cultured guy, but a cocky, reckless womanizing drunkard wasting his hours away at a tavern. Jr’yy yrnea gur shyy fgbel nobhg Natry’f eryngvbafuvc jvgu uvf sngure naq nobhg uvf inzcvat va NgF frnfba 1 Gur Cebqvtny, that his family is well off but not that cultured, that he really dislikes his father, that he despises “an honest day’s work” and that he’s eager to get away from his town and see the world. He was ripe for the picking for Darla, to offer him to take him away and show him the world, with its exciting and frightening things.
2) Dru about to become insane and a vampire. This is out first look at the innocent, deeply religious girl that Dru (or whatever her human name was) was as a human. Va Qrne Obl jr’yy yrnea gung Natry naq Qneyn unq abgvprq ure naq cvpxrq ure hc juvyr ure snzvyl jnf jnyxvat va gur fgerrg, juvpu jbhyq zrna gung Natry unq xvyyrq gur cevrfg jvgu gur vagragvba bs zrffvat jvgu Qeh’f zvaq, engure gung ur whfg unccrarq gb or gurer ol nppvqrag jura Qeh pnzr sbe pbasrffvba. It is darkly ironic to see Dru call Angel “Father” thinking that he’s the priest, and Angel feeding Dru’s fears and that she’s a “devil child” and should just give in and be evil and that God’s “plan” for her is to be evil. Quite telling are his words that God will smite her down because he’s cruel “like that” (Natry’f ernpgvbaf gb uvf bja Pngubyvp hcoevatvat) and and even more telling his words that “we all want to, at first (to be good), but the world doesn’t work that way”. Pynffvp Natry sngnyvfz.
3) Angel becoming a souled vampire. He either knew what was going on, or the process was already underway and he was feeling it, as we see him running in fear towards the Romani camp to try to stop it. Finally we get to see the process of ensoulment: excruciating pain, glowing eyes and a temporary memory loss. The Kalderash elder isn’t surprised by Angel not knowing where he is and what is going on, and tells him it’s just temporary and that it will all soon start coming back to him, and that he’ll be tormented by memories of all the people he killed and all the terrible things he did. It seems that he already is starting to remember, as he starts crying out in despair. (Now, I’d say the Romani took a risk there – there are quite a few humans who have no conscience despite having a soul…)
4) Angel prompted by Whistler to “become a person, someone to be counted on”. Whisler seems to be a representative of some sort of a higher power, telling Angel that he can “go two ways”: by this, he doesn’t mean “good or evil” but “even more useless than you are now – or you can become a person”, which for Whistler means someone who matters.
5) Buffy becoming a Slayer. The first time I watched the episode, this was the biggest shock of all flashbacks: even though I knew all the time that pre-Slayer Buffy used to be a shallow valley girl like Cordy or Harmony, it was a still a shock to actually see the Hemery High Buffy, gossiping with her airheaded friends, before her first Watcher, Merrick, approached her to tell her she was a Slayer. These flashbacks were taken directly from Whedon’s original script for the movie, and pretty much the same scenes can be found in the canon comic book adaptation of his script, The Origin, except that in this case we see that Angel was secretly watching her. Buffy is sucking on a lollypop in that first scene, adds a creepy vibe to Angel’s instant infatuation with her. It’s only when we see Buffy’s other side – as she first fights with vampires in the graveyard, and then comes home and silently cries in front of the mirror while her parents are fighting in the other room – that she starts to look like the girl we know. It’s not hard to see why Angel fell in love with her: he had nothing and no one, and then Whistler told him that this girl was his purpose in life; she kinda looked like Darla, and the moment he saw her in tears in her room, he probably saw in her a kindred spirit, tortured and ‘different’ like he was. And Whistler sure pushed all Angel’s buttons when he told him that the Slayer will have a hard time and needs his help (“she is just a kid” – weren’t they all?), orpnhfr Natry ybirf gb fnir qnzfryf.
These flashbacks are juxtaposed with present day scenes of the same people: flashback #1 followed by evil soulless vampire Angel stalking Buffy in the graveyard, flashback 2 followed by soulless vampire Dru, evil and happy to be evil. All those moments were either forced or initiated by someone else, with the people in question having little choice in the matter. Darla made Angel a vampire while he didn’t even know what was happening to him; Angel drove Dru insane and made her a vampire; the Romani forced a soul on Angel; Whistler naq gur CGO chose Angel (although he did have choice to follow or not); Buffy was chosen, like every other Slayer. Angel did choose to “become someone”, though it was a choice to follow the destiny that someone else had chosen for him – juvpu vf gur ortvaavat bs gur uvfgbel bs Natry sbyybjvat gur qverpgvirf sebz gur CGO be fgehttyvat jvgu znavchyngvba ol uvture cbjref. In the present, evil Angel also wants to “become someone” , to be important, only in this case, he wants to become more demonic and to suck the world into hell. “Watch me as I ascend; as I become”. “Everything that I am, everything that I have done, has lead me here”..This is what has been driving Angel his entire life: trying to be important and make a difference, whether for good or for evil, depending on whether he is souled or soulless, good or evil at the moment. Va Gur Cebqvtny, jr’yy frr jurer guvf hetr pbzrf sebz, naq gung ur jnf unccl gb gryy uvf sngure gung ur unq svanyyl “znqr fbzrguvat bs zlfrys” jura ur orpnzr na rivy inzcver.
On the Xander/Buffy argument. There are no clear good and bad guys there: Xander ‘s stance is understandable, and he probably speaks for many fans who felt the same about Angel after the horrible things he did in season 2. But Xander is prone to black and white thinking and is ignoring the soul-no soul issue (as Buffy says, it is more complicated than that) and he’s also as biased as Buffy here, since he always hated Angel. He is very harsh and insensitive, not just to Buffy but also when he brings up Jenny’s murder in front of Giles, who is trying to maintain perspective as well as honor Jenny’s wish to restore Angel’s soul (and who gets rightfully angry when Xander mocks him for his attempts at impartiality). Vg’f vagrerfgvat pbzcner guvqf fprar gb Frysyrff va frnfba 7, jura Knaqre jvyy or ba gur bgure fvqr bs gur qrongr. Ohssl va Orpbzvat znxrf gur cbvag gb Knaqre gung Natry qvqa’g pubbfr jung unccrarq gb uvz (juvpu vf gehr obgu sbs Natry orpbzvat n inzcver naq sbe ybfvat uvf fbhy va frnfba 2), naq gung va Frysyrff fur znxrf gur fnzr nethzrag nobhg Fcvxr, pbagenfgvat vg jvgu Naln jub qvq pubbfr gb orpbzr n iratrnapr qrzba, gjvpr.
But while Xander’s argument that Angel is still responsible for his actions and unforgivable does have merit (as does Buffy’s argument), one thing that doesn’t make sense to me in this scene is that everyone is forgetting to point out the pragmatic value of restoring Angel’s soul. There’s no guarantee that Buffy can beat him, so how would it not be a good thing to restore his soul if it stops him from killing people and trying to end the world?
Loving your thinky thoughts 🙂
Nf lbh fnvq – Juvfgyre vf nobhg onynapr. Rivy tbg gbb fgebat, fb ur'f urycvat gur tbbq… Fb jura gur tbbq vf fgebat, qbrf gung zrna ur urycf rivy? Sbbq sbe gubhtug. Nsgre nyy, ur arire npghnyyl pynvzrq gb or ba gur fvqr bs gur "tbbq". Ur gryyf Natry ur unf n pubvpr gb orpbzr rira zber hfryrff, be orpbzr fbzrobql. Ur qbrfa'g zragvba n pubvpr orgjrra tbbq naq rivy.
Ohg n pbairefngvba nobhg gur CGO jvyy ernyyl or zber va cynpr nsgre jr trg gb Natry gur frevrf.
"So what are we, helpless? Puppets? No. The big moments are gonna come. You can't help that. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are. You'll see what I mean.”
Great setup for the finale. "
Uhu. Terng frghc sbe gur erfg bs gur frevrf, vs lbh nfx zr.
Naq nyzbfg zberfb sbe NgF guna Ohssl.
Destiny vs Free, that's the big theme of the episode. As the title says, it is all about transformation, about becoming someone/something else. Flashbacks show people becoming something new due to fate, to circumstances they couldn’t control, to something that someone else did to them, or to an intervention of higher powers, while the present day plot is about what is done to our heroes, the situation they’ve been put in. Cneg 2, ba gur bgure unaq, vf nobhg crbcyr znxvat gurve bja pubvprf, pubbfvat ubj gb qrny jvgu gur fvghngvba gurl’ir orra chg va. .
THIS. Thank you SO MUCH for managing to say in so few words why I love this two parter so very very much.
EEEE IT'S FINALE TIME
– Flashbaaaaaaack! I LOVE FLASHBACKS
– Oh Whistler, why are you so random.
– Oh Angel's Irish accent, why are you so HORRIBLE.
– So this is the part where we remember that when Angel said in "Halloween" that he was uninterested in the vapid ladies of his time and wanted to find someone more interesting, HE DID. AND SHE TURNED HIM INTO A VAMPIRE. Way to learn that lesson, Angel.
– "Close your eyes." (Guvf vf nccneragyl gur gvgyr bs gur Ohssl/Natry gurzr orpnhfr gurl jnagrq gb tvir vg nf urnegoernxvat n gvgyr nf cbffvoyr.)
– Guest starring BIANCA LAWSON HELL YEAH
– I love Xander re-enacting Buffy's slayage with fish sticks.
– Aw, Xander and Cordelia flirting and being silly. "I will teach… ZE LANGUAGE OF LOFF!" Oh you kids.
– DRUSILLA FLASHBACK! I LOVE FLASHBACKS
– Juliet Landau really looks so… INNOCENT here. It's amazing how her acting is so different than when she's Vampire Drusilla.
– I love how Angel just HAPPENED to be in the confessional eating the priest. He's like "Well, this is awkward."
– "Yes, you're a spawn of Satan!" Hee, I love hammy villains.
– "A tomb, with a surprise inside!" Is it a delicious chocolatey center?
– Willow is THE BEST TEACHER
– OH NOES PENCIL
– FLOPPY DISK
– That is a much nicer computer than Ms Calendar's.
– SOUL-RESTORING FLASHBACK
– The yellow eyes of soul-restoration!
– Angel's hair omg SO BAD
– I really hate Xander for his whole "you don't care about Ms. Calendar" speech. Like, he has a point (Angel sucks and it might not be worth the effort to try and get his soul back), but he's being an ASSHOLE.
– Claddagh ring! Return of Buffy/Angel theme!
– KENDRAAAAAAAAA
– "It's a big rock! Can't wait to tell my friends! They don't have a rock this big."
– See, now, Kendra is making the same point as Xander WITHOUT being an asshole.
– Shiny sword!
– Callback to the "new-age paperweight" thing about the Orb of Thessala!
– Angel eats rats! Yum?
– A good demon! And the morality of this show gets a little greyer.
– Driving a car with blacked-out windows? Yeah, that sounds safe.
– Aaaaand this scene is kind of creepy. Whistler is like "Look Angel, here's the next slayer! Isn't she cute? With her lollipop and being FIFTEEN YEARS OLD and all?" And I'm like "you are both creepy GO AWAY"
– Sad scenes of family drama!
– NO BUFFY IT'S A TRAP
– YOUR BLUE COAT IS SO CUTE
– MISTER POINTY
– the sword of Al Franken?
– "And you fall for it EVERY SINGLE TIME!"
– NOOO Drusilla uses her hypno-powers on Kendra!
– KENDRAAAAAAAAAA
– GIIIIIILES
– God, the slow-motion run… the B/A theme… THESE EPISODES, I CAN'T EVEN.
– FREEZE! TO BE CONTINUED! OH NOES
I obviously had a lot of extremely eloquent thoughts about this ep. 😛 Look, I will have more things to say on Monday, OKAY? Until then all I can do is yell and keysmash.
"I really hate Xander for his whole "you don't care about Ms. Calendar" speech. Like, he has a point (Angel sucks and it might not be worth the effort to try and get his soul back), but he's being an ASSHOLE. "
He might have convinced people that he had a point if he didn't throw the whole "so you can have your boyfriend" part in. WTF man so uncalled for! But it was actually recognized as a point of conflict in the show which is nice for a change.
Though if I'm being practical, if the spell actually worked it probably is the easiest way to take care of Angelus. Provided you don't do it in a public building where vampires know you hang out ALL THE TIME.
" Driving a car with blacked-out windows? Yeah, that sounds safe. "
Oh holy crap how did I forget to comment on this? It amuses the hell out of me how easily vamps get around in the daylight of Sunnydale.
Provided you don't do it in a public building where vampires know you hang out ALL THE TIME.
Right? They need a new after-dark headquarters.
Pretty sure the Irish accent I *accidentally* slipped into while attempting a *Jamaican* accent while performing in a play was STILL better than Boreanaz's. Also, it seems like he just gave the fuck up for the last several lines of that scene, and I thanked him for it.
Xander’s French accent is better than Angel’s Irish accent.
Yeah that was a bad accent wasn't it? I seriously do love all the flashback scenes in this though when one ignores the accent.
Daily Buffy Quotable:
"You'll find that with the exception of a honest day's work, there's no challenge I'm not willing to take."-Angel
"Oh yeah, finals. Why didn't you let me die?"-Xander
"Ten our Fathers and an act of contrition. Does that sound good to you?"-Angel
"Big no to danger."-Willow
"Polite people call before jumping out of bushes."-Buffy
"I don't want to be the only hope. I crumble under pressure. Can we find another hope?"-Willow
"Nobody understands me. That's my curse."-Whistler
"I want to learn from you. But I don't want to dress like you."-Angel
"Someone wasn't worthy."-Spike
"This is a beautiful moment we're having. Can we please fight?"-Buffy
One of my favourites, re: revising for tests,
Buffy: "I'll wing it. Of course, if we go to Hell by then, I won't have to take 'em. (thinking) Or maybe I'll be taking them forever."
SMG's delivery is just excellent.
Oh, Mark. You are never prepared.
I am also watching Buffy for the first time but I have already powered through to season six (I plan on watching all of Angel after I finish Buffy) and I got to "Frrvat Erq" last night. Arrqyrff gb fnl V nz abj n oebxra furyy bs n uhzna orvat naq ynhtuvat ovggreyl jura ravtzngvpntragfphyyl fnlf gurer vf abguvat guvf fubj pna qb gb rzbgvbanyyl oernx hf shegure. Gurer vf ab cercnengvba sbe nalbar jura vg pbzrf gb Jurqba.
Because you need this: NYY GUR UHTF!!!!!
You are not wrong.
Don't worry everyone! Giles already spoiled the finale ages ago!
Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after.
Since I was days late to the Lie To Me post I will repost my addition here. Here is a VERY VERY VERY SPOILERY LJ ICON (for ALL seasons of Buffy, I think. At least up through Season 6) that I made of Giles' big lie at the end. (The bit you just quoted.)
DO NOT LOOK IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ALL OF BUFFY.
I'm better at making icons now. *facepalm* This one isn't that great, but I am proud of the picture choices.
So, did they get the same dialect coach for Angel's Irish accent as they did for Kendra? Does anyone know? Cause if so, I think this guy just heard of dialects one time and studied accents from cartoon characters.
David's Irish accent = most commented-upon topic in the history of Mark Watches BTVS, y/y?
Why do I have a feeling that there's stuff coming up that will be MORE commented upon? OH GOD
Because things happen.
UNPREPAREDNESS, etc
it's still not the part of him that's culpable that's suffering.
It is, though. The demon is still there inside Angel even when he's souled; it's just not in control. Remember 'The Dark Age'? Or what Angelus told Spike and Dru in 'Innocence': "She made me feel like a human being. That's not the kind of thing you just forgive." He can remember what it was like to have a soul after it's gone, and he hated it.
Every good deed that souled-Angel does is a knife in the heart of demon-Angel watching helplessly from behind his eyes.
Naq vg rira jbexf sbe yvggyre guvatf gbb: va "Becurhf" Natryhf fgnegf uvf "V jvyy ABG yvir guebhtu guvf ntnva! V pna'g!" juvavat bire fbhyrq Natry… fnivat n chccl gung jnaqrerq vagb gur fgerrg.
Svefg gvzr guebhtu, V unir gb nqzvg gb orvat n yvggyr fxrcgvpny nobhg gur gubhtug cebprff oruvaq vg. Ohg gur zber V guvax nobhg vg, juvyr gur rkrphgvba naq rfpncr pynhfr yrnir n ybg gb or qrfverq, gur npghny vqrn oruvaq gur phefr-nf-chavfuzrag (jvgu obahf zbafgre arhgenyvmngvba) vf njshyyl pyrire. Rirel gvzr Natry qbrf nalguvat qrprag, be rira fvzcyl snvyf gb qb rivy: fhssrevat. Xhqbf gb Pyna Xnyqrenfu sbe guvaxvat bhgfvqr gur genqvgvbany gbepurf naq cvgpusbexf obk.
TO HELL WITH THIS I AM WATCHING THE NEXT EPISODE
I've seen all these episodes many, many times, but I decided that this time, I would watch one episode a day and keep pace with Mark. I failed for the first time last night!
Syhberfprag benatr vfa'g ernyyl zl pbybe, yby. But as for the other suggestions, I will definitely take into consideration. V'z n ovt Fcvxr/Ohssl sna, fb gung bhgsvg vqrn vf svggvat. Naq gur fplgur vf whfg pbby.
Cercner gur xvggraf naq uht tvsf naq vzntrf sbe Zbaqnl, sbyxf! V frafr jr'yy nyy arrq rz.
I found Angel stalking a 16 year old pretty creepy. I'm not sure why they did that.
They made a huge misstep having Angel be–what, 28?–when he was sired. It means he’s a creeper as a human as well as a vampire. I wish they had cast an actor the same age and said he was 17 or something when he was sired.
Edited this comment because jr qba'g lrg xabj Natry'f uhzna anzr.
…Yvne.
I like Cordy!Buffy, she's so adorably clueless (like the movie, yes). I only wish that gur syvcfvqr bs gung jnfa'g gung gurl gevrq gb znxr Pbeql zber Ohssl-yvxr, oybaqr unve naq nyy. Nsgre n srj frnfbaf bs Natry, Pbeql unq pbafvqrenoyl yrff fnff guna Ohssl, naq gung'f fb fnq pbafvqrevat ubj fur fgnegrq bhg.
Jenny's dead but what about all the other people he killed after losing his soul again? Sure they weren't really characterised but it seems parochial to only focus on one of his crimes.
That aside I really love this episode:
ANGRY FIGHT!
FIRE!
A BIG ROCK!
MR POINTY!
DEATH…. WAAAAAAA!!!
It's a big rock, can't wait to tell all my friends.
They don't have a rock this big.
I WANT A BIG ROCK!!!
Late to the party I post images from my favourite Buffy-tumblr.
<img src="http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxana3dOu91qkbybho1_500.jpg" >
MARK. Every single time. How do you manage to put season finale's over weekends EVERY SINGLE TIME. I'm watching Dr. Who and its just like EVERY SINGLE TIME. It's not statistically possible for it to happen that often!
I know you already read it but still… EVERY SINGLE TIME.
You are not prepared… Oh God. I don't want to watch it. I know what happens and I don't want to watch it. You can't make me. … I probably will but I don't want to.
V jvyy or jbegul gb serr Npnguyn. Orne jvgarff… nf V nfpraq… nf V orpbzr. Rirelguvat gung V nz, rirelguvat gung V unir qbar, unf yrq zr urer.
Nalobql ryfr erzvaqrq bs Tenqhngvba Qnl?
OMG I love "Becoming" so much! Both were excellently acted and so full of angst! Joss Whedon, why do you love to make us hurt so muuuuuch?! I have a theory that Joss, Moore and Braga all hate happiness. That's why Buffy, Dollhouse, Star Trek (TNG and VGR) and BSG are so full of pain!!!!!!! 🙁 And why do I love all the sad shows??
I love reading the perspective of someone who honestly has no idea what's coming. I wish I could erase Buffy from my head and watch it all over again.
You're disappointing me in one aspect, however… You are not completely falling in love with Spike. How f-ing awesome is Spike?!
Everything Spike says in season 2 is gold. 🙂
Rfcrpvnyyl uvf gnyx jvgu Ohssl ng gur pbc pne va cneg 2
Unccl Zrnyf jvgu yrtf!