In the fourth episode of the third series of Doctor Who, the Doctor and Martha travel to New York City during the Great Depression. They discover a disturbing plan by the Daleks to evolve in order to stay alive. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
I like the Daleks a lot. I think they’re a fascinating Who villain, capable of being immensely creepy AND hilarious at the same time. I’m not sure I know of many villains who are the same in science fiction, as they tend to skew towards one end or the other. Every time they’ve shown up, it’s been a surprise as well, so I was a bit disappointed that the title of this episode pretty much spoils that.
Is it ok to say this whole episode is a bit understated? I didn’t hate it (“Fear Her,” YOU ARE THE WORST THING EVER), and there was a lot that was interesting. But as a whole, it didn’t grab my attention until the end.
This script feels as if it’s all over the place. It’s not particularly bad, but there are like ten different ideas all fighting for screen time. There are the homeless and poor in Hooverville and the Empire State Building and Laszlo and the theater and Tallulah and the Daleks and the Pig Slaves and Frank and the Cult of Skaro and Solomon and JESUS THIS IS SERIOUSLY A LOT TO FOCUS ON. Though, I do recognize that this is only the first part of the story and it’s entirely possible that Helen Raynor purposely made this story so complex because she plans to tie all the pieces together in the second half.
We meet the Doctor and MARTHA in New York City in November of 1930 and the Doctor takes them to the Hooverville located in Central Park. A shanty town of downtrodden and homeless citizens who lost their homes because of the depression, it’s a community of people at the ends of their means. I liked the idea of the Daleks / Mr. Diagoras using the poor and underprivileged for the Final Experiment. (Yes, I’m capitalizing that.) The thing is, while this is certainly fictional, it’s not an impossibility that people (and alien beings) in power would turn to those at the bottom of the economic and cultural food chain, to go after those the rest of society would deem as disposable. I would have liked to see more of that in this story, but so it goes. I don’t write Doctor Who. (But wouldn’t that be fun? I would seriously write a scene in which the earth opens up and eats someone. I would.)
So….who are the Pig Slaves again? Are these like those Santa Claus things from both Christmas specials? I mean, we know the Daleks are choosing those with “low intelligence” to be converted, but….why pigs? Maybe they’re explained in the second half, so don’t spoil me if that’s the case. I think that they can be creepy as hell, and that first scene in “Daleks in Manhattan” was fucked up. I can’t deal with bizarre creatures rushing out of the darkness to attack. It gets me EVERY TIME. It was even scarier when the Doctor was consoling one of the Pig Slaves in the sewer and then an ARMY OF PIG SLAVES CHASED AFTER THEM. I don’t know why this frightened me, and I’ll just say that sometimes, I scare easily. Sometimes I don’t.
I don’t care about the Tallulah / Laszlo side plot. I just don’t. Miranda Raison is beautiful. I just thought I should say that.
Let’s talk about about Andrew Garfield. As soon as he walked on screen, I had to pause Netflix and verify it was actually him, so that I wouldn’t get excited for nothing. IT IS HIM. And he didn’t have an accent! Of course, all I could think was OH MY GOD IT’S EDDIE DUNFORD FROM RED RIDING. Which…good god, WATCH RED RIDING. It is so goddamn good. (Yes, he was also in The Social Network, but I have no interest in watching that movie TYVM.)
Maybe I just like Andrew Garfield’s face, but I wanted to see more of Frank and I actually winced when he got pulled into the sewer by the Pig Slaves. I assumed the worse for his fate until it was later revealed that the Pig Slaves weren’t actually eating the people they captured.
OH DALEKS Y U SO CREEPY. I will say that what this episode does with the Daleks is FANTASTICALLY AWESOME. High five, Helen Raynor. The entire time, despite being disappointed by the spoiler of the title, I couldn’t figure out exactly what this Final Experiment was, why Mr. Diagoras was so important to it, and why they were lining up humans to become part of it. When they found that mass of alien matter in the sewer, I assumed it was a piece of whatever the Daleks were doing.
Could I have guessed what came out of the Dalekanium? Maybe the idea. A hybrid wasn’t too complicated of a plot twist. But HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING THAT JUST CAME FROM INSIDE OF A DALEK WHAT THE HOLY HELL.
This episode has its faults (and is apparently hated quite a bit by the fandom), but maybe it’s because I have no history of the Daleks. I seriously LOVED the end of this episode. I can’t even imagine what this means for the Dalek mythology or even how the Doctor is going to deal with this. These are the only four Daleks left. (Wait, how did they get to 1930? Don’t answer that yet, but I just realized that wasn’t explained.) Will Daleks in the future involve human hybrids? How will these hybrids differ from the Cult of Skaro?
This isn’t an amazing episode, but I’ve definitely seen worse. I’m actually kind of excited to see where this goes.
THOUGHTS
- Andrew Garfield HNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG
- “They always survive, while I lose everything.” Seriously unbelievably depressing/frustrating.
- If you’ve ever seen Man On Wire, then you know how UTTERLY FUCKING TERRIFYING THE SCENE ON TOP OF THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IS. Good god, I just expected them to fall off. Also, why are they sticking parts of the Dalek on the roof? I don’t get it.
- “Oh! I should have realized. He’s into musical theater, huh? What a waste.” A;SKLDSAFD;LFSDA;LKL; FD F;S AF;LKSKL;S
- Again, please don’t tell me about it, but I have NOT picked up on this series’s overarching theme/mythology. I thought it would be a single word or code, but I haven’t seen it yet! WHAT. Unless it has to do with YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
- Has someone made a macro of the Doctor as FOREVER ALONE? We should do that.
I have to admit I didn't rewatch this one, so don't remember much about it, except for some unconvincing American accents. I know there is a lot of hate for it, but I'm not old-school fan enough to really know why
Yes, the unconvincing accents is the main thing I remember too! I imagine it's even more distracting for someone who actually is American… I'm trying to think of an example of the reverse (American actor playing English person with terrible accent)- I know there must be lots but can't think of any just now!
Dick van Dyke is the usual go-to.
Oh, of course!! And I believe Kevin Costner takes some stick for Prince of Thieves too…
Kevin Costner didn't really try though, he was just American for the whole movie.
As someone who is actually American, I have to say that I don't notice unless it's really horrible (and I can think of a few). America has its regional accents, too, and a number of them derive from British regional accents. Add in the number of non-English accents we hear in the average day/week/month, and it becomes an interesting stew.
As for Americans playing English accents, James Marsters and Juliet Landau have take hits, although over time Marsters did improve. On the other hand, Alexis Denisov seems to have done pretty well. A lot of people don't like his "American accent"!
Now why do I get the feeling that you're a Buffy fan? 🙂 I always thought James Marsters had a very good accent, I remember being surprised when I realised he wasn't English! And I had no idea Alexis Denisov was American until you just said that, so apparently my theory about it being distracting is not entirely true… I think maybe I just found the accents grating in this episode because I was used to hearing at least two of those actors sounding British. Although it's never bothered me in House!
Yea, I know. Hugh Laurie is amazing at the American accent. I didn't realize he was British until at least a few years after House started (and no, I didn't watch any British TV until pretty recently, so I didn't know who Billie Piper or Catherine Tate were until Doctor Who.)
Although I did know who Stephen Fry was. I've always really liked him. I don't know, he must have been in something American when I was little.
I always found James Marsters had a sort of hybrid accent. He got a lot of words right but then he'd pronounce some things like New –> Noo, which gave it away. But I think it actually worked for his character in Buffy, gave him something unique.
Alexis Denisov was brilliant though.
I didn't have a problem with James Marsters' mish-mash accent, because the accent was put-on for the character too. Spike consciously changed his accent some time after he was turned, so it didn't bother me that his accent was kind of all over the place.
Ugh, I really hate that explanation. Yeah, he put on the ‘lower class’ accent, but he was already a Londoner (i.e. from the South) so the pronunciation of words such as laugh would not bloody change.
Sorry for the bitter Londoner rant. I love James to pieces, but I wish Tony had taken him aside and given him pronunciation lessons as his regular accent is the one James was aiming for.
Oh I'm totally one of those people. I've seen Dollhouse twice now and I *still* can not get over Alexis Denisof's regular accent. It sounds like he's doing a poor job imitating one to me. Crazy. And I always thought James Marsters was pretty good, though he did seem to have a bit of his own thing going on.
He's been on "How I Met Your Mother" a few times too, and his natural accent messes with my mind every time.
We meet the Doctor and Rose in New York City in November of 1930
*cough*
Hahah Mark has as much trouble remembering that she's gone as the Doctor does.
Mark IS the Doctor?? LOGIC
I SWEAR THAT THIS IS AUTO-CORRECTING IT OR SOMETHING. I specifically looked to make sure I wasn't doing that! ;LKSDJF;LASDHF;LKASDJKLADSFSAD
Sure sure sure …. 😉
Just as long as Mark doesn't shed any single poignant tears, I'll be OK.
LOL I laughed at that. Mark, you have got to let Rose go!Poor Martha's feeling left out as it is!
Oh my stars and garters. You've gotten here. I mean, I knew you would, but… *whimper* Yeah, I hate this two-parter. I actively try to repress my memory of its existence. I'm surprised you're enjoying it, but then, maybe that will change in part two. I don't know. I just… I… bwaaaaaah. T_T
I don’t write Doctor Who. (But wouldn’t that be fun? I would seriously write a scene in which the earth opens up and eats someone. I would.)
THEY SHOULD TOTALLY HIRE YOU. <3
Why is this episode so well-hated? I believe the most hated New Series episodes are this, Love and Monsters and Fear Her.
Where to start? There's so much to hate about it. [/Daria] I don't speak for everyone, but this sums up my dislike for it (at least, what I can say about it *now*).
– First off, the use of the Daleks. Even if this didn't contribute to their being overused, it'd still be terrible. The hybrization plan still doesn't make sense to me and doesn't jive with what I'd learned of the Daleks up to this point, and I just can't take Mr. Penishead there seriously. Not at all threatening, to my way of thinking.
– I didn't like any of the minor characters, particularly the ones with awful fake accents. I'm American and so this was distracting and annoying to me.
– Martha's continuing subplot of fail. Why? Why would you do this, writers? Why would you take a strong, cool black companion and give her so much potential awesome in the series opener only to squander it all by reducing her to this? She's been reduced to pining over a white man who will never love her because he's still hung up on a white woman – ye gads, the unfortunate implications, even a dumb cracker like me can spot them a mile off. XP Not that I want Ten to immediately get over Rose, or that I ship him with Martha (hell no, she deserves better), but I really feel it's poor writing to saddle Martha with this, and to have Ten's grief manifest in treating her badly, it just makes both of them come off badly and really makes Ten unlikable for me. They didn't need to give her this horrible arc.
– Stuff I can't talk about till tomorrow's review (and I'll likely be in late).
Love and Monsters I wouldn't say is most hated (since there's about half the fandom that loves it), but I agree on this and Fear Her.
I don't like these episodes that much…but I don't hate them. At most I find myself thing "Ugh. Bloody daleks". I just really dislike the daleks, and don't find them scary here.
Wait there are fans who love Love and Monsters?
Where do you guys hide!? Two reviewers on That Guy With The Glasses have said they hate it, the Tvtropes article is negative and Gallifrey Base despises it.
I wouldn't say I love it, but I like "Love and Monsters" well enough. I definitely don't hate it, and I think it is way better than "Fear Her" and this two parter. The only thing I really despise about it is stone Ursula and the lovelife line.
We're hiding in the TARDIS. Come and join us!
I think its a case of 'love it or hate it' (although I'm probably one of the few more in the middle), and as always, the haters are more vocal. The last time I read the TvTropes it actually was fairly balanced, with lots of YMMV. And yeah, I saw Nash's review of Love and Monster's and had to politely disagree.
Love and Monsters is brilliant. Fear Her failed. No comparison.
I like Love and Monsters because it reminded me of a cross between Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (obviously, I mean, the guy even LOOKS like NPH, and they have a laundry room scene!) and Buffy (campy horror and friends being the most important thing). I don't like the end with the tile, but most of it I think is great.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Haha, we need to start using that instead of IAWTC. Macro, pronto?
When I saw the preview for this at the end of Gridlock, I groaned. Then when I went to pull up the episode last night, I knew that I didn't like it and didn't particularly want to watch it, AND that it was a two-parter with Martha, but for the life of me I could NOT remember what episode it was! I think my brain was trying to protect me.
Awww, you keep saying Rose instead of Martha!
WTF IS WRONG WITH ME
You're worse than the Doctor! Poor Martha – it's always Rose this and Rose that. You…you…
…You Swine!
(I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.)
Well Mark. Remember one thing.
ROSE LOVED DRUGS!!!!!! D:
Yeah this episode is kind of meh for me. It's not terrible but it just feels a bit long and drawn out. I don't think these episodes rank highly with many people.
"We meet the Doctor and Rose in New York City in November of 1930 and the Doctor takes them to the Hooverville located in Central Park."
Mark you did it again, Martha not Rose.
Yeah this episode is just…I don't HAAAATE it like some people do but it's just sort of there. There's a lot of little bits that are fun but it's just kind of, meh.
Now that Andrew Garfield has been cast I spend most of the episode going "HEY it's Spider-man!" because I'm strange like that.
My roommate is obsessed with Andrew Garfield. The other night, we went and saw "Never Let Me Go", which starred him and a certain woman who also appears in this season of Doctor Who. It was very good, but sort of horrifically depressing at the same time.
I haven't seen Never Let Me Go yet so I had to look it up to work out who you meant. Oh my god, love her.
Yeah not a big fan of this episode. It's okay, I like the use of Hoovervilles and there are some really neat ideas about using the people who are at the lowest rung because it's a limitless supply which nobody will ever notice etc, but generally it was just a bit 'meh' to me. Also Miranda's accent will never not be horrendous to me, and I say that as somebody who has never even been to New York. :/ I do quite like the music in this episode though. 🙂
As for the Dalek stuff…a lot of it is cool but I think the Dalek creature thing is just…awful looking. Perhaps it's the totally non-threatening suit, or the fact that when it first came out my brother who was watching it said 'Has that thing got wobbly penises for hair?' IDK, but it just didn't convey any sense of horror or fear in me when it first popped out. (Also that voice? Oh god, so annoying and melodramatic. "I…am…a…human…Dalek". Whispery ~intense~ villains don't do it for me.)
oh my god the accent… I'm English and I know it was terrible!
Indeed! Bless her, she's obviously did her best but oh god it was horrific. XD
Oh, I thought her accent was deliberately grating! Like, a parody of dumb blondes in Old Hollywood movies. Oh well!
ETA: it was bad, but it was funny, so I'm okay with it!
I felt like it was a bit of both.
I feel like that stereotype of a New York accent is always used, even by American actors in American TV shows…and um, I've been to New York, it's not that far from where I live. My mother was from New York. Most of the people in New York do not have accents that severe.
So while her accent wasn't good, I think it was meant to be overplayed and campy.
This two-parter is a shining example of How Not to Use The Daleks, IMO. They're already overused as it is, yes, but there's a good way and a bad way to make use of them. This… ugh. I personally prefer usage like in "Dalek", which showed how scary just one can be.
Yeah. I don't really understand people's RAGE! over this two-parter, because taken on its own, it's not terrible. It's just not quite awesome.
I think there's also a bit of resistance to the Daleks being changed from their original form.
My dislike has a lot more to do with the execution of the change rather than the change itself. I don't think the premise is necessarily bad, I just don't think it was done well.
I don't feel rage at this two-parter. I get that facepalm feeling that happens when Doctor Who's natural awesome is completely swamped by stupid. So much stupid. Oh ye gods.
I disagree. For me this is episode is exactly how the *should* be used. Daleks as mass killing machines gets old. Huge armies of flying Daleks is an impressive spectacle. But Daleks being sneaky and creepy and doing wierd sciencey stuff that makes me wonder, `What are they up to this time?` That, for me, is when the Daleks are at their best. Real, physical Daleks trundling along sewers and through a building with decor that somehow wierdly match their bronze hides…much better than CGI Daleks swooping about. They always seem more threatening in the flesh. (Well, in the metal, but you know what I mean.)
Now, I'm not saying this is my favourite Dalek story of all time, but I think all the right elements are in place. In fact, rewatching this tonight made me realise how much I enjoy it. Then, somehow, I forget. Maybe I get too caught up in `accepted fan opinion` these days. I'm a Sylvester McCoy fan – I should know better!
So yes, lots to like about this episode. As for the conclusion, well, we'll talk about that tomorrow, won't we?
The thing with these particular Daleks is that they’re not the usual killing machine Dalek anyway. Skaro Daleks are meant to be the imaginative ones … so it plays out that they’d be doing things differently.
I suspect I kind of suck as a fan though, ’cause a lot of the episodes others seem to loath I’m alright with.
I had the same reaction: ANDREW GARFIELD!! Wait, is that Andrew Garfield? YES! Wait, maybe. YES I'M GOING WITH YES ANDREW GARFIELD. Also Mark, if you enjoy looking at his face you should check out the movie Never Let Me Go, it's very haunting and lovely and sad.
I wasn't the biggest fan of this episode either, but it was okay. I was REALLY excited when it started with the Hooverville and the Andrew Garfield but I don't think it was executed all that well. Like you said, too much going on and I was just thrown by the Tallulah / Laszlo stuff, it really just didn't fit with the rest of the episode. Maybe if they had done more with the difference in class or something?
Oh and I didn't really pick up on an overarching theme either at this point. Then again you kept mentioning Bad Wolf and it took me a while to notice, and by then it was like HEY LOOK THIS IS IMPORTANT YOU DOLT.
I saw Never Let Me Go last month. Talk about depressing! But lovely. I was also hugely distracted by the fact that a number of scenes are filmed in the area where I went to University. The exterior shot of the hospital toward the end is actually one of the residence halls from my university.
Woo Andrew Garfield! <3 I love him, he's so pretty. Can't wait for 'Never Let Me Go' either – it's only just coming out in the UK now and as it's one of my favourite books I am excite! I'm sure he will be awesome, although I've not doubt I will CRY MY EYES OUT.
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First things first, Lazlo was pretty hot before he turned into a man-pig, y/n/Karen, you are very weird wtf is wrong with you?
I don’t hate this episode as much as most people. I mean, it’s not great and there is a lot of ridiculousness, but… Idk. I still can’t hate it.The plot of this episode is kind of… eh. Whatever. The Daleks have some wacky scheme to bring back their race and destroy the world or something to that effect I'm guessing. What else is new? Except this time their plan involves turning people into pigs? And the Empire State Building? And using men with really awful New York accents? Ok. Shine on you crazy diamonds.
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And then the episode ends with a Dalek and human merging to form a Dalek-human in a suit with phallic looking tentacles all over his face? LOL WAT.
What saves this episode are two things. 1) I love the supporting cast. Tallulah (three l’s and an h!), Frank and Solomon are all awesome and 2) THE MUSICAL NUMBER. Idec what you think, that moment was AWESOME.
Tallulah is too adorable in her 1930s dancer ways. She’s so bubbly and cute. I love her! She’s all bright and sparkly, but there’s more to her than meets the eye. She not some sort of superficial ditz, she really does love Lazlo and can be feisty when things concern him. When Tallulah sees Lazlo she doesn’t recoil in horror and reject him. In conclusion, Tallulah is awesome. Haters to the left.
And I do really like Solomon, even though when he was splitting the bread between the two Hooverville men, I was like “LOL. SOLOMON. CLEVER, WRITERS. I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE”. My love for Frank is only partially motivated by the fact that I think that Andrew Garfield is cute (look at him here before he got all famous!). He’s totally adorable and sweet and generally awesome.
Throughout these two episodes the Doctor has some interesting character exploration… and Martha… does not.
Tallulah: Hey, you're lucky, though. You got yourself a forward-thinking guy, with that hot potato in the sharp suit.
Martha Jones: Oh, he's not – We're not – together.
Tallulah: Oh sure you are! I've seen the way you look at him, it's obvious.
Martha Jones: Not to him.
Tallulah: Oh! I should have realized. He's into musical theatre, huh? What a waste.
Noooooo! Self-pitying!Martha, go away! Bring back the awesome Martha from the end of the last episode. UUUUUGH. I hate it when they go this direction with Martha’s character. Like I understand why it is necessary for her overall character arc, but that doesn’t mean I have to enjoy watching it.
Fortunately we do get the start of some neat Doctor characterization. He’s lost a lot recently. And it shows.
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The Doctor: No… no, no, no… They survive, they always survive, while I lose everything.
Ok, I know that this isn’t specifically a Rose!angst moment, but it could be. I mean, the Doctor has been emo about Gallifrey recently, so I’m sure that’s on his mind. But the last time he saw Daleks was when he lost Rose. Not only that, he lost Rose for the sake of destroying Daleks forever, but obviously that didn’t happen. So he lost Rose and didn’t defeat the Daleks after all. Poor Doctor. Anyway, the point of this line is to show how much the Doctor has lost.
"First things first, Lazlo was pretty hot before he turned into a man-pig, y/n/Karen, you are very weird wtf is wrong with you?"
You are not weird, he was rather lovely before the Daleks got him.
Ugh self-pitying!Martha is not my favorite. That little conversation happened and I was like, no, Martha is awesome and doesn't deserve this writers. I know why they did it, but I just don't think it fits with her other kickass!Martha side.
Oh and that dalek-human hybrid thing was laughable. Seriously, they've brought the daleks in a bit too much already and then they make them even less scary by creating THAT with them? Silly, silly. Phallic looking tentacles are really never the way to go.
Well I actually can really appreciate this facet of Martha as part of a larger picture because I think it does contribute to a good character arc, but to say more right now would be spoilers. So I don't resent the writers for it because I think it pays off really well, but it's just not pleasant for me to watch.
This is why I don't particularly like this episode. I can't take the Dalek hybrid seriously as a villain, especially with that weird voice.
Also, I find lovesick Martha very annoying in this episode.
Honestly? I like angsty-Doctor. I mean, not that I like seeing him angst, but it feels much more realistic to me. As much as the guy has lost, you'd be worried if he *wasn't* liable to get emotional a little too often. As annoying as seeing an emo Doctor is, I'd hate it more if he bounced back from everything — Gallifrey, Rose, etc — as if it didn't really mean all that much to him in the first place.
LOL. ME TOO. I wasn't complaining.
Angsty!Doctor is pretty much my favorite Doctor. Ten feels emotions very intensely and it totally makes sense that he'd be so affected by losing Rose and Gallifrey and seeing the Daleks survive it all, meaning that all those things he lost in the name of fighting them were lost for nothing.
I completely agree with this. This is definitely one of the reasons I like Ten so much.
Climbing on the Angsty!Doctor Love Express!
Laszlo's pretty face was taken away from us by make-up effects too soon.
God, I nearly want to laugh just looking at that picture of Dalek Sec. I actually did laugh at the 'dramatic' reveal on rewatch.
Oh shit, I didn't think we got to see cockface untill part 2 for some reason so I wasn't going to comment on him till then. Definately the most unfortunate looking bad guy on the show.
I agree with pretty much all of this.
Laszlo was totally cute. Andrew Garfield is totally cute.
I like Solomon's character, he's such a leader, but not perfect. But yes, writers, me and Karen both saw what you did there.
Martha. I get that you fell hard for the Doctor. Who am I kidding SO DID I. But you are a badass in your own right too, and you should remember it.
And yes, loss has really been eating away at the Doctor, and I like that this episode highlighted how that has affected him. And I hope he takes all the sad and angst and anger and turns it into some BADASSERY.
Who said she wasn't hot after he was turned into a man-pig?
Grr, I wish I had internet at home. The hospital I'm borrowing internet from won't allow streaming media (haven't watched the episode in years).
All I have to say is ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING DALEKS.
Other than that, so/so episode, from what I remember.
Yeah, I'm sort of feeling the Daleks are a bit overused in the new series, too.
Yeahhhhh.
That chick's voice + Dalek in spats = I just can't. You could say I was not prepared to deal with that.
I believe you have just summarized my feelings about this episode. I remember seeing the promos and thinking, "Daleks in Manhattan?! HOW CAN THIS BE BAD?!" …but then it was.
S3 is kind of hit-or-miss for me.
Remember the last time we saw Sec in Doomsday he vanished with the words "Emergency Temperal Shift!"
I think this story is very under-rated, not the ebst ever, but there's a lot of fun to be had and I enjoy seeing the Cult of Skaro schemeing. Also felt very sorry for the Pig Slaves.
I will limit my comments to say that I actually quite like this two-parter and I don't fully understand all the hate. I will have more to say tomorrow.
*cough, cough* Martha-not-Rose *cough, cough*
Oh the moderation queue ate my comment – is this the point at which I realise I have to get myself a Word Press account?
Ate it as in it never appeared?
No, it did pop up a few minutes later (I assume you let it through – thank you!), but as it hadn't happened before and I didn't have any links in it I was just surprised. I might get an account anyway, I think it will make it much easier to have conversations as I won't have to keep checking back to see if people have replied to me! Email notifications ftw!
Email notifications rock, but the comments may still not appear. But at least, you can read the notification and reply elsewhere if it's something important.
Um, yes I would watch this again merely to get my fill of Andrew Garfield….. yes yes please…..
But as for the new human dalek thing???? I just can't take it seriously, I think it looks pretty silly with the twitching tentacles and stuff… kind of a step down as far as creepiness goes
Fun facts!
Poor Helen Raynor. She got quite a (frequently gross, sexist) drubbing from fandom for these episodes. Apparently, RTD was deathly ill (I want to say chicken pox?) right around the time when he would have been rewriting these scripts. It's been talked about before, but RTD heavily rewrote most of the scripts written by other writers during his tenure as showrunner. There was a general policy that if a writer had already been a head-writer of their own series, their contract for Doctor Who said they would not be rewritten, but everyone else was fair game. He talks about it in his book (and supplies a couple examples of before-and-after scripts), and how at the beginning, he didn't ask for co-writing credit on those scripts, even though he could have. And after the first series, it would have looked weird to suddenly give him cowriter credit all over the place, so they kept not doing it. ANYWAY. That's just a background for how important it is that he did not get a chance to work on these scripts in the same way. Helen Raynor had previously been a script editor and this was her first DW script. She was sort of left to go it alone in a way that even much more experienced writers usually weren't.
These are not, shall we say, my favourite episodes, but there are a few nice moments that I sometimes forget in my extreme meh-ness otherwise.
Oh god yes, I remember the fan hate over this when it aired. Actually this was what stopped me going to the Outpost Gal forums. I've got vague ambitions of being an author myself and seeing that level of vitriol was horrific, even for the web!
Those comments were terrible. Poor Helen Raynor was distraught, by all accounts. Those so-called `fans` could have seriously destroyed a new writer's confidence in her own ability. I was ashamed. Frankly – and I say this as someone who loves all Doctor who – just about any time in the original 26 year run, fans would have *killed* for a script this good! RTD improved things so much and we're spoiled, we really are.
I just recently read that part of The Writer's Tale and– that was this episode? I don't remember them mentioning which episode it was. But that's so incredibly terrible, and after reading that I decided I didn't want to visit the Outpost Gallifrey forums either. I mean, really.
That's these episodes. (I just reread that bit as well, cos, uh, The Writer's Tale is my loo literature.) The only other ones she wrote were in series 4 and I think redeemed her quite a lot in the eyes of many. That's also the bit where he talks about how Murray Gold and Noel Clarke were similarly slated. I mean, really. MURRAY GOLD. The man's a genius! But on the internet, even a small group of haters can seem HUGE if they get noisy enough.
People… dislike… Murray Gold?
But.
But.
How? Why?
What?
Haha this is like the thing I think of when I start losing all hope in fandom: There was this brief period a couple years ago where hating on Murray Gold was really common. People were misattirbuting the blame for the music being too high in the mix (which I have a sneaking suspicion is partially exacerbated by downloading compressed files, if that's how you watch), which of course has nothing to do with the composer. And just in general there's a segment of fandom who idealise the classic series, which did not have orchestral scoring (and sometimes had the most laughable synthesizer key-mashing) so any such addition to the new series was BAD AND EVIL. However, I noticed that a massive amount of that ill will really started to dry up again as series 5 went into production and now it seems that everyone loves Murray Gold. So, there is proof that fandom is not entirely crazy! That keeps me warm at night 🙂
This fandom sometimes, I swear… I've not even been in it a year, but I got cynical about it in, I think, record time. Which is saying something, as I've a long sad history of side-eying fandoms I'm a part of…
Eeek. I absolutely hate most of the syntthesizer mustic from the old-series; while some of it is nice, a lot of it is grating. Nothing at all like Murray Gold's beautiful orchestral tracks. He's done one of the more beautiful and notable TV sound-tracks I've ever seen, along with The Track Team's work on Avatar; The Last Airbender.
But then again- in this fandom, if it exists, someone's bound to hate it. XD
>…that ill will really started to dry up again as series 5 went into production and now it seems that everyone loves Murray Gold.
Except the new theme arrangement, in some quarters. But I guess we'll talk about that when Mark gets there.
Yeah, most of the hate was directed at the mix and misdirected to Murray. To be fair some of the broadcast mixes were WAY OTT (in fact the recent Sarah Jane Smith / Matt Smith episode suffered from that, says he skirting spoilerville) and fandumb did the rest.
Most of the hate I see aimed at Murray Gold ISN'T EVEN HIS FAULT. People get ticked when the music is too loud over the dialogue, and blame him, when I'm fairly sure that the composer isn't also the mixer. Murray Gold is amazing and wonderful and I totally want to marry him.
"What? What?!? WHAT!"
I.. what? Hate for Murray God? Are you shitting me?
Typo or accuracy?
Was it really that horrible? I'm new to the fandom- but the thought of these episodes getting such a bashing seems so strange! They're not the most amazing episodes, but they and the writer don't deserve such hatred.
…the internet can be a strange place.
Yes, but don't forget, they were written by A FEMALE (*insert horror-movie music*). You'll note very few female writers on this list of Doctor Who writers of the old and new series (Helen Raynor remains the only female writer for the new series): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_w…
These episodes were taken by some as proof that GIRLS don't belong writing Doctor Who OMG. *eyeroll* and yeah, it was ugly.
Wow? Seriously, I could have sworn there was another female writer. I must have gotten it mixed up with someone else on the production team.
But it makes perfect sense. One girl writes a 'meh' episode, so ALL girls will. Perfect logic. *rolls eyes*
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oh god, this. 🙁
I always laugh at Kenneth's line in 30 Rock:
"whenever I eat strawberry, my throat shuts up faster than a girl in math class!"
Oh the sexism that remains, unchallenged, in our culture.
yeah I thought that too… I think there is another female script editor (possibly hired around the same time as Helen?) who hasn't written an episode herself which might be what I'm thinking of.
Part of the problem is you've got some of the most.. uh… comitted fans in sci-fi supporting a show that's 50 years old and has seen more splinter groups spring up that Metallica. Add the awesome power of the Interwebs to convince everyone that they're right and the rest of the world is wrong with a side helping of jerk and you end up with a mess.
Sadly it continues to this day (and probably will until Who finally runs it course in several centuries time) with current targets usually being the main cast.
Oh god that sounds absolutely awful! I like to think everyone here is a bit more sensible than that! Even when I have my hatey moments, I try to remember that there's stuff that I like about even the parts of the series that I uh, don't like. If that makes sense. Constructive criticism!
(I'm not a writer, but I am an academic, which is basically the long route to being a non-fiction writer… so I do sympathize!)
I didn't know who wrote this when I first watched and thought it was godawful. Afterwards I just felt bad that these were the first New Who episode written by a woman. Ugh, what dreck.
Though I guess that a true sign of gender egalitarianism is when women are allowed to be pretty awful and still keep their jobs, just like all the mediocre-to-terrible men out there, rather than being held to higher standards.
I actually liked this episode a LOT more on the re-watch. I think I was able to look past the pig slaves and the wobbly accents this time and get more from the story. There's some good secondary characters in Solomon and Frank, and I think the little bit of conflict between the Daleks themselves about remaining pure / trying to imagine themselves differently is really interesting.
And for some reason I just like seeing the Doctor strolling through a park. WHY I do not know. It's just nice!
Also, the spoilery title — I think 'Dalek' is in the title of every episode to feature them except one, or something (a classic series fan will set me right on that) so it's a bit of a tradition perhaps.
It's about 50/50 I think… something like 13 episodes without Dalek in the title, 17 with. Rule of thumb is if they're the main villains and it's not a big event story like a season finale they get name checked.
Interesting, thanks!
Nicking one of my comments from Rise of the Cybermen:
Random Fact: It is unusual for a cybermen story to contain the word `Cybermen` in the title. (It happened 3 out of 10 appearances in the original run.) Contrast with the Daleks, where it is rare for the name to *not* be in the title. (3 out 16 stories in the original run do not contain the word Dalek.)
In terms of the new series, it's 50/50. So the new series is trying to keep Daleks a secret more than the old show. (At least in terms of titles. Trailers are a different thing entirely.)
Overall, then, 15 out of 20 Dalek stories to this point contain the word Dalek.
I think the little bit of conflict between the Daleks themselves about remaining pure / trying to imagine themselves differently is really interesting.
Me too, I hope they continue to explore that in part two.
‘Yeah well, you can kiss me later. You too Frank, if you want.’ Hello Andrew Garfield. How did I not know he was in this episode. Then again it's not exactly high on my rewatch list. This isn't what I'd call one of the more well loved episode of Doctor Who.
Rule number one for scary situations: never think you’re safe just because something harmless makes you jump. That’s when you get attacked by the actual thing in the dark.
I feel bad for Martha being stuck in the same outfit for so long. Come on Doctor, can't you let her borrow something out of the wardrobe. It's certainly big enough for her to find something. Tallulah thinks Martha and the Doctor are a couple which just makes me facepalm. I know people have various reasons for liking and disliking the whole crush situation, I just wish it wasn't brought up in every episode.
‘I’m sorry. I’m so sorry.’ Sorry Laszlo but that’s the Doctor’s line.
The reveal of Dalek Sec human at the end of the episode was actually spoiled by the fact he was on the cover of the Radio Times that week. Not the easiest thing in the world to avoid.
Most of what I want to talk about comes from the next episode and the two parter as a whole so that's all I really have to say for now.
>I feel bad for Martha being stuck in the same outfit for so long. Come on Doctor, can't you let her borrow something out of the wardrobe.
You say that, but it really hasn't been that long. I think this is something that often gets forgotten, but the night the Doctor and Martha arrive at the Globe Theatre is effectively the *same night* as when Martha was out at her brother's 21st. Let's call that `Night 1`.
Love's Labours Won is performed on Night 2. The final scene with Elizabeth I takes place in the morning of Day 3, and they go straight to New Earth. The main events there take place more-or-less in real time, with the epilogue shortly after – the Doctor not being one to stick around long. That means their trip to New York is still Day 3 and the gamma strike (which hasn't happened yet) is `tonight`. That will be Night 3.
So up to this point, by my reckonning, it's ben a whirlwind day and a half or so. Undies could probably do with a change (especially after being grabbed by those pig slaves!) but compared to the likely standard of personal hygene in Hooverville, she probably smells of Roses. (Oops, sorry, bad choice of words!)
I suppose watching the episodes it does feel like it should be a bit longer than it actually has been especially with everything that's happened going to the past, the future and back to the past again.
Tallulah thinks Martha and the Doctor are a couple which just makes me facepalm. I know people have various reasons for liking and disliking the whole crush situation, I just wish it wasn't brought up in every episode.
THIS. I keep saying this, and I'm serious, guys- meet me in the comments section for the series finale and we will get down and dirty about Martha and character development. It's like, if Martha doesn't mope on her own, the writers conjure up a reason to rub the situation in her face so she can. It all feels a bit forced. I think her character arc is… strange, to say the least, but like I said- things we will get into at a later date.
Yeah seriously, what sense-making reason does Martha have to mope? None, is the answer! I'm totally down with you for the end-of-series character dev discussion…
She's not moping. She's got an unrequited crush which she so far hasn't got over in a day and a half. I would consider it very strange if she *had* got over it in that time. People maintain unrequited crushes for weeks, months, even years in extreme cases. I see nothing strange in Martha's behaviour at all.
I'll be there with bells on! 😀
We meet the Doctor and Rose in New York City in November of 1930
Mark, are you doing this on purpose? 😀 😀 😀
APPARENTLY.
Still love you, though. 😉
Holy shit how did I not know that Andrew Garfield was in this. Now I have to do a rewatch. Not one of my favorite episodes but it still holds a special place in my heart because it made me ace my final English exams in high school. One of the questions asked was to write a few pages about the importance of the Empire State Building for New York in relation to an excerpt from Jonathan Safran Foer's "Extremely loud and incredibly close" and while we had done stuff about New York in class the Empire State Building never came up, so I had to rely on my background reading for this episode for most of it.
"We meet the Doctor and Rose" Again. Mark, you DO miss Rose a lot, don't you? Still, it's MARTHA now, honey.
Can I tell you how disappointed I am that this episode isn't titled "The Daleks Take Manhattan?" They missed an amazing cameo opportunity:
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Other than that, I don't really get why the fandom hates this episode. It isn't fantastic, but it isn't that awful, is it?
Miss Piggy would totally be able to take down all the Daleks. She's that badass.
I can't find a gif of Miss Piggy karate chopping someone. This is life's greatest tragedy.
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HBIC
Why can't I upvote this more than once? Woe.
Beautiful. You have made my day!
I LOVE MUPPETS TAKE MANHATTAN. I watched that movie way too often when I was a kid.
And yeah, I don't think that these episodes are as bad as the reputation they have. There are at least two more episodes form series three that I like less than these two.
MISS PIGGY!!!!!! <3
This is how I always read the title and only just realized it was wrong but I don't care it makes me happy.
MUPPETS! I really thought that "take Manhattan" was the episode title, but oh well. Maybe the appearance of pigs that can be terrifying is a sort of shout out? Maybe? Yeah, probably not.
I was one of those haters, but in rewatching I kind of liked it. Reduced expectations might have had something to do with it, but it's pretty fun.
OH MY GOD.
THIS COMMENT.
And now I have this idea in my head that Miss Piggy is the offspring of Tallulah and Laslo. WHY BRAIN, WHY?!
I SUPPORT THIS IDEA
One of your lines just made me squeel in anticipatory glee. Just thought you should know. But I obviously will not tell which one because SPOILERS.
I also cannot yet tell my full opinion of this episode because SPOILERS but suffice to say that my suspension of disbelief was challenged.
I absolutely loved that the Final Experiment was carried out on the poorest of the poor, it just adds this bit of uncomfortable realism to the show. I remember getting slightly annoyed with Martha's love for the Doctor because it just had to come up again and again and ugh I get it let it go already. Though that might have been more annoying to me than it would be to someone not watching episode after episode after episode in rapid succession.
And I totally agree with picascribit, the Daleks shouldn't be used all that often. I mean, I am terrified of them – the show made sure of that. But it just seems like… whenever something bad happens to earth, Daleks turn up and make everything worse. You can almost count on it at this point. And while Daleks (and Cybermen, for that matter) are scary as hell, I would like to see a few more aliens. Not necessarily in Monster of the week-fashion, but in a "There are more bad things than Daleks in this world"-way.
And for some reason that made me think of Torchwood and I will now check if you have already agreed to watch it. And if you haven't: WATCH TORCHWOOD NEXT PLEASE? 🙂
"I remember getting slightly annoyed with Martha's love for the Doctor because it just had to come up again and again and ugh I get it let it go already. "
This!
I think it annoys me more because it felt like she just immediately fell in love with him from the start. I can't stand plots where somebody "falls in love" immediately, with no buildup, and no explanation, and then we're expected to treat it like it's serious. (*coughtwilightcough*)
I know, right? She barely knows him, and yeah, he is obviously amazing and mysterious and all that, but… could she at least be a bit subtle about it? I just don't understand why it has to be such a major plot point so early on. If I wanted romantic comedy, I'd watch one of the bazillion other shows in existence which offer just that. From Doctor Who, I demand witty dialogue and more or less subtle social commentary.
YES THANK YOU. I don't care if he's David Tennant AND he has a time machine. The crush plot makes no sense. Especially with reference to the person upthread who commented on how in real time, it has been THREE DAYS. At best.
To be fair- we are talking about The Doctor. The same day that she met him, her hospital was transported to the moon and talking space Rhinos showed up. Then the Doctor saved her life and he took her in a space box (that's bigger on the inside) back in time to see Shakespeare at the Globe Theater. And he kissed her. How do you go on another first date after that? How do you not fall in love with the guy who saved your life on the moon and then took you to see the first performance of Love's Labour's Lost?
In a general sense I hate the love at first sight trope, but this isn't like Donna and Lance where she was begging him to marry her. Martha has a crush on a guy who is very much the definition of spectacular. I can't fault her for that.
Sure, I can't blame her — god knows I've got a mad-on crush for the man without even having met him — but I absolutely must give the writers a wearied glare because it's entirely too superficial after spending two whole seasons building up the last friendship/relationship he had.
The line that made you squee? my noise was more of a high pitched giggly noise 🙂
I just started laughing. 😛
I just smiled knowingly, and wondered at how in-tune Mark is with the writers.
I love how everyone just KNOWS what line OP is talking about. I absolutely smiled at that line ^.^
If it's the line I think it is then I rofled (and I HATE the episode that may or may not be in question).
Wrote down a note about your review. Hopefully will make a comment one day about my note when it isn't a spoiler! I should keep a notebook of everything I want to say to you so that I can come back to it one day.
Anyway, I don't HATE this episode. But it's not great… (imo, obviously! I just didn't like it!) but I have to say that this most recent rewatch wasn't as bad as I remember. Now time to drag myself to watch part 2 I guess.
Pigs are scary. They just are. An army of devilpigs is DEFINITELY a scary thing.
They are the ultimate omnivores. You can chop up a human and they will… get ridd of it for you.
Not that I know that from experience, or anything.
UPSETTING!! :[ :[
And now I'm thinking of the finale of series 4 of Criminal Minds. Who knew pigs could be used for such a dramatic effect,
One of the webcomics I read had that as a plot point! (Lackadaisy Cats, it happens fairy early on)
Hey, I read lackadaisy cats! Tis teh awesome.
Pigs are scary…except the one in Aliens of London…
…and Babe.
Here's the thing, I honestly believe that this is a really good episode but for one thing…. the Daleks. I'll expand on this tomorrow when Mark's done the whole story but take them out and replace with a new alien. You end up with a VERY different dynamic which I think works far, far better without the Dalek's… dare I say baggage along for the ride? Anyway, more on that tomorrow.
Getting back to Reality… yeah, middle of the road ep edging towards bad. There's a few too many holes, another great instance of Dalek stupidity (seriously, why leave the failed experiments out in the open? They must have been moved there from the lab, why not just chuck 'em in a furnace or something?) and one massive, horrible special effects fail with the Human Dalek. It just looks a) ridiculous and b) not enough like the Dalek creature itself. Oh, and Sek joining with the human host is similarly silly. Yes yes, it's an experiment, but he must, what, tripple his body mass to do it? *sigh*
Andrew Garfield appreciation post.
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OH LOOK I FOUND MORE.
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I just really really like him, ok?
I support your endeavours. Unf.
I'm not very fond of this episode. There's just too much going on. The Hooverville bits are great, and so is the theme of the Daleks and Mr. Diagoras exploiting the workers. But I wasn't moved at all by the Tallulah/Laszlo subplot (not to mention that her TERRIBLE fake American accent was incredibly annoying), and the pig slaves simply didn't make any sense at all.
But the worst thing was the Dalek-human hybrid. I mean, what? The Daleks have always seen themselves as the superior race in the Universe and their purpose was to destroy all other forms of life that weren't Dalek. Why on Earth would they want to merge with humans? Ugh. AND they're overused, IMHO.
(just in case you don’t notice)
“We meet the Doctor and Rose in New York City in November of 1930 and the Doctor takes them to the Hooverville located in Central Park.”
Oops.
Oh, several people brought it up while the comment system was buckling. Never mind then.
Andrew Garfield was in this episode?
Yeah, I remember liking this episode at the beginning and then liking less as it went on… I think I liked the second part better.
I love seeing people in things before they're famous. Also, because Andrew Garfield is going to be Spiderman, and the humanoid pigs in the episode, I have had the spider pig song from the Simpsons in my head since last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq6siFEMnZw&fe…
I… really don’t have a lot to say about this episode that can be said at this point.
I liked Tallulah once I got past the accent – for some reason, that accent just grates on my nerves, and I don’t blame the actress or anything, it just hurts. I can’t say I really *cared* about her story with Laszlo, but I really liked the way she was written.
Daleks = awesome. Looking forward to watching one of the old ones with Daleks to see a story where it’s NOT “this time it’s personal, they destroyed my homeworld/entire race/girlfriend/me”!
I watched their first story, with One, the other day. They are SO DIFFERENT…. but they still look like pepperpots with whisks and plungers.
Oh god, all I can remember from this two-parter is PENIS FACE and PIG FACE. Aaaaaand that's why I've never gone back to them. Hurk.
I started the episode earlier, and I noticed that the music at the beginning, when the Doctor and Martha are in front of the Statue of Liberty, the music is very Gershwinesque. Like, it's very nearly Gershwin. Go, Murray Gold and Ben Foster!
Excellent capitalisation, my man!
And writing for Doctor Who is basically my Ultimate Dream (…I too can capitalise). Whenever I have a moment of 'why the fuck am I doing an English degree, what is my lifeplan?', I turn to my DVD boxset and declare, 'DALEKS', and it gets me through my crises. It's gonna happen. I'll write in a character called Mark.
At first I loved the Daleks and got so stoked when they'd show up, now when they're in an episode every 1/2 season or so it's really hard for me to care. Also I don't get how the Doctor is so sure he's the only one of his kind left, cause Daleks seem a lot dumber than Timelords and at least a handful of them survived, why can't some of his kind do the same(this is actually something I was wondering back in season 1)?
I agree on Tallulah!
Seriously, it's like LET THEM GO. GET SOME NEW, MORE INTERESTING MONSTERS.
Daleks are a bit like cockroaches. They may not be the cleverest, but they are really damn hard to get rid of, and will probably survive Armageddon.
That's a pretty good assessment, I concur!
Fair point.
Rewatching this ep I realize I'd forgotten how funny the deep voiced dalek was. Me=simple.
Daleks in New Who are clearly subject to the Law of Conservation of Ninjutsu.
YES. I agree with this so much.
this episode is neither my favorite or the one that i hate. it's just ok.
I would just like to share this LJ icon made by a friend of mine, based on this Dinosaur Comic:
<img src=http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/61319773/112758>
Welp. This episode.. I just… it's an episode?
It rates a fairly well with the fear forecast, netting a 4. Erm, is it weird to say that Doctor Who is the only thing I've seen the next Spiderman in? Seeing as Frank is going to be Spiderman.
Anyway. This episode is a 'neh' episode in my book. I'll watch it if it's on, but I'm not going to pop the dvd in just to watch it.
"Erm, is it weird to say that Doctor Who is the only thing I've seen the next Spiderman in?"
If it is then we're both weird, this is the only thing I know him from too (unless he's in something else I've seen but haven't realised yet)
It's just weird that it took a British thing to introduce me to an American actor.
ANDREW GARFIELD'S NOT AMERICAN. (Okay, wait, I just googled him and apparently he was born in LA and grew up in England, so he's British American. Did not know that.)
But he totally has a British accent.
I think.
He can do either one flawlessly. IT IS IMPRESSIVE.
Yeah, he can do both very well, but outside of a role he always speaks with a British accent.
I'm the same. I know he's a bit of a rising star at the moment and he's in some recent movies but I haven't seen him in anything else myself.
lol I read this after you corrected it but when I saw Martha's name in all caps I thought: he called her Rose again, didn't he? XD XD
Not my favourite story but Andrew Garfield!!!
Fav qoute:
Martha: Oh I'm so glad to see you!
Doctor: Yeah, well, you can kiss me later. You to Frank, if you want.
Oh, god I hate this two parter even more than I hated the Slitheen one.
DW sure does love its fake New Yorks. I do love "Putting on the Ritz," though, so I'll forgive this one, if only for appropriate song choice.
When the elevator door opens, and it's a dalek with…pig…guards, it's just ARGH that looks stupid. Why the pig people? Why would the Dalek ride in an elevator when it can fly? Did it push the elevator buttons or did it have to get one of the pig people to do it? The whole DUN-DUN-DUN setup to this episode is just too ridiculous to me. Also, random, but the fake green marble in that room looks pretty cheap to me.
Hi Andrew Garfield you're making this ep more interesting on rewatch than it would have been otherwise. And yet, not enough to redeem this episode (you're still super adorable, though!).
The Angel/Devil musical bit was, I think, not a good thing to have in this episode. It's just I think this episode is already so cheesy and camp, that an outright musical number warrants major eyerolling from me.
But no, really, why the pig people? I think it looks silly, and they maybe could have not had them and maybe used more money/time to improve the look of the experimental dalek, cause it looks really, really stupid and, ya know, slimy and phallic tends not to be a good combo. For god's sake, at least give him a clean suit, cause it's just so pathetic to look at.
I hear Andrew Garfield is slated to be the new Spider-man
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Enjoy.
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I mean, hi there Andrew Garfield. Don't you make a fine Spiderman.
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A+ gif work.
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You are going to kill me with these gifs.
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I've got two more left, but this is my last laughing/blushing gif of him, so the other two might not fit as well in this thread.
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This is a good gif thread. He is just too cute with that bashful smile.
"He is just too cute with that bashful smile. "
His bitch-face is pretty awesome too.
<img src="http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2848/andrewgarfield.gif">
That is an amazing bitch-face, look of oh really.
I feel like I need to find some gifs to contribute.
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/2q0u61g.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
Ugh, gorgeous.
<img src="http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/858/tumblrlfyc0ojjw41qa5ui1.gif">
He is truly an attractive man.
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/126eowo.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
hellloooooooooooooo!
*drool*
A lot of people – by which I specifically mean adult viewers of Doctor Who also wondered why we have to see Daleks all the time, iconic enemies of the Doctor though they are. And it's a fair question. i absolutely love Daleks but yes, if they pop up every time we turn the TV on, they do lose their impact.
But…
The constant reappearance of the Daleks is, I think, a sign that RTD knows the makeup of his audience. It's a family show, with a hell of a lot of kids watching. The same kids that think farting Slitheen are funny, most likely. Now kids usually love Daleks but they have a wildly different perception of time from adults – perception of time is largely linked to what proportion of your life it represents. If you're in your 20s or 30s or, like me, your 40s, then a year's gap between seasons is no time and you find yourself saying 'what, Daleks again?' If you're seven years old, then a year is absolutely forever…
As it is non-spoilery, I can tell you that the Cult of Skaro had an emergency time transport at the end of "Rise of the Cybermen." And the only reason why I know this is because I just watched it last week.
I'm guessing you mean "Doomsday?" I remember one of them saying something like "emergency temporal shift," and wondering why no one brought it up, but I assumed at the time that it was just used to reverse the lever and keep the remaining Daleks from being sucked into the void. Now that I think of it, though, the one that said it disappeared immediately afterward.
Good to know.
The only two parter I skip in rewatches. It really just doesn't appeal to me, and I can't articulate why. I think it's that I feel that the daleks are being overused at this point in the NewWho. I get the fandom love for the Daleks, I get the horror of them I get all of that but I don't like how much they keep turning up.
Meh. There are definitely some good side-characters. I love Solomon and Frank, and Tallulah would be awesome if it wasn't for her terrible accent.
However, it all comes down do the villains. The pig-slaves were kind of creepy, but I couldn't see the point. Why did the Daleks always use pigs? I would think that if they were experimenting with making hybrids they'd do several different types and not just pigs.
Also, the Daleks. I like the Daleks, but it they are a bit over-used in the New Series. I usually like the Cult of Skaro, but I don't care if they're super-speshul Daleks that think for themselves, it's stretching it a bit that they would make a Dalek-human hybrid. The whole point of the Daleks is that they are the ultimate xenophobes; basically, they're Nazis. In Nazi Germany, if you had a single grandparent that had Jewish blood, you were a Jew. A German would not "sully" their bloodline by having half-Jewish kids and a Dalek wouldn't purposefully create a hybrid of itself with any other species, let alone a human. (BTW, the Daleks on the Game Station clearly were ashamed of their human components. Dalek Sec treated it as evolution.) Sorry, I'm just not buying it.
Spoilers, dammit!
I personally like the Daleks… they've been around since the second story way back in 1963 and in a way how they are shown in this episode as doing away with a lot of the whole racial purity/exterminate everything else theme that they have lived with since their origins. The Cult of Skaro was designed to in a way literally think outside the box. Hence the merging is a desperate attempt to continue the Dalek race in some level of survivalist instinct. They know they have been pushed to the brink of extinction and are grasping at straws to return in any form. However, this is not the first time the blending of human and Dalek has been brought up. Consider what was happening to the game contestants on Satellite 5 at the end of Season 1… the Daleks then were using human DNA to rebuild (stated by the Dalek Emperor). So in a way, this is another attempt to rebuild the Dalek race, but in a radically different way. But yes… the story continues… with interesting twists (as should be expected :P).
Favourite part of this episode: the musical number. No, seriously. I know Murray Gold gets a lot of stick in fandom for being overdramatic and loud, I think those criticisms have some merit, but this song is fantastic. It's also shot very well, with the camera swooping in on Tallulah.
Come on, Mark's specifically asked for no spoilers, doesn't even watch the next time trails let, and you post this? A little restraint seems fair surely…
It was meant to be imagining an episode description in the guise of a cheesy B-Movie trailer, you weren't supposed to actually confirm it's an episode name.
I will say that that's what I assumed you were going for, I even automatically read it in that B-movie dramatic voice in my head so I think it's understandable that you didn't think anything of it but also that others assumed spoiler due to name since everyone tries to be as cautious as possible.
Being one of the fans who disliked this episode, I have only a very hazy memory of it. Mostly what I remember was immediately wanting Tallulah to be the Doctor's next companion. 😆
Beyond that, I remember thinking that at this point in the show the Daleks felt . . . overused? I didn't have any history with Doctor Who or the Daleks before the new series started. I thought that they were delightfully terrifying in 'Dalek'; I was glued to the screen when they turned up at the end of Series 1; when the Void ship opened at the end of Series 2 I got literal chills. After that, though, it just didn't seem surprising when they showed up again. Or scary. :erm: And when your main villains stop being scary, it's time to retire them (at least for a while).
Why why why does that Salem hybrid have wiggling things coming out of his face that look like a certain part of the male reproductive system? Just why?
That is supposed to say dalek. Stupid autocorrect!
I don’t write Doctor Who. (But wouldn’t that be fun? I would seriously write a scene in which the earth opens up and eats someone. I would.)
Doctor Who makes me want to be a screenwriter. Completely serious here. I watch it and I go, 'Wouldn't that be so much fun?! Going crazy with your imagination like that? And being completely free to write that?' I'm so glad I was made aware of The Writer's Tale, because it really makes me a happy person to read just how that stuff happens. And then I read a biography of Jane Espenson and I want to switch careers.
Doesn't Martha live in London?
MORE QUESTIONS FOR BRITS: Is it really possible that Martha has not seen a play? How has she not when she lives in that splendid city?
Not trying to be a nitpicker. I'm just a huge theater-goer (and theater-lover) and my mouth went like 'WHAT' when I learned she hasn't been to a play. Besides Shakespeare, but that's just funny. 🙂
Also, I can't begin to tell you how happy it makes me to be sitting in my room in New York and suddenly Dr. Who is in 1930s New York. My face=:DDD
Plays in London are very expensive. Also, a lot people who live in London don't go to the theatre cause of a) the price and b) it's seen as a touristy thing to do.
Wow…That's so sad to me =/ In New York, it's expensive too but even residents go out to see a Broadway show once in awhile. I guess you don't have all the deals websites and stuff offer?
Yes, we have all the special discount websites, same as the rest of the world. What you'll not tend to find amongst the theatre district is locals as there is very little housing in the centre of London and what there is tends to be extortionately expensive.
But Martha is also a student! Some theaters have awesome rush tickets for students. I got fantastic seats to see Wicked once for twenty quid. But yeah, it is generally expensive and seen as a touristy thing to do. BUT WHATEVER WHATEVER I DO WHAT I WANT. (Although I haven't gone to see a play in aaages. Lol. Cheapskate!Karen.)
I'm pretty sure I remember that plays at the reconstructed Globe theatre are only five quid or so, though I didn't have time to go when I was there last June.
To be fair, she probably has been to see plays, but only Shakespeare plays! I've seen two Shakespeare plays with school and one by choice and I'm going to another Shakespeare by choice in the summer. So yeah, I have no idea about seeing things in theatre that AREN'T shakespeare… Oh except panto, I've been to panto almost every year! But I'm pretty sure that doesn't count!
For some reason I got the impression that Tallulah asked if she had been on stage, not necessarily to a show. Idk.
Yes. that's correct.
TALLULAH: "You ever been on stage before?"
MARTHA: "Oh, little bit. You know. Shakespeare."
TALLULAH: "How dull is that? Come and see a real show."
Well that would be the reason then! Thanks! 😀
I totally missed that the kid was Andrew Garfield ;feels dumb;. I knew he looked familiar somehow but I figured I had seen him on some other BBC show/movie he guest starred in. But now the mystery is solved at least. He was just as adorable back in the day.
I have never seen this episode
it was deleted off my TiVo before i got to see it, and i've never seen it on repeat
Your TiVo was protecting you.
This episode is the first one I haven't watched along with you (not that I need an excuse to watch Doctor Who, but you know …) as I can not stand it. I can not stand Tallulah – can't stand her. Dislike her immensely. I think it is her voice and her personality, but UGH. Couldn't stand the thought of watching her more. Also hate the pig slaves with a passion. There is just something about them that rubs me the wrong way.
And I'm going to stop there, because just based on what you've posted, I can't remember exactly where this episode leaves off and the next one starts, and I don't want to be a big party pooper and spoil you with my complaints. Needless to say, as much as I love Dalek based episodes, there are aspects to the Dalek plot that I have problems with, too.
A few thoughts on the episode:
"They survive, they always survive…when i lose everything."
Oh my god, I love this. I'm SOOO glad they included this line. I remember there has been discussions here in the past, that a major defining feature of the Doctor's past that shapes his person is that he had to lose everything to defeat the Daleks. And the fact that they were supposedly all gone but keep popping up kind of either a) undermined that sacrifice or b) just made it all seem so futile and even more sad and horrifying or c) made no sense at all in the context of the show's premise. I don't buy c, I think each plot has made sense and made for good stories, and I keep being surprised when the Daleks show up. And I kind of favor b over a, I don't think it undermines the sacrifices of the past, I think it makes him all the more tragic and shapes his character even more. But I liked that the Doctor acknowledged the sense of futility this can't help but make him feel. I feel really bad for him. My cure all is hugs and tea, which I would love to bring him if he weren't fictional and I were lucky enough to meet him.
I do have to say, when the Dalek's did the intelligence scan by putting their plunger over the people's mouths? I laughed.
"I'm so glad to see you"
"Yeeeahhhhh, well you can kiss me later. You too, Frank, if you want."
Oh Doctor 🙂 Kisses for everyone!
There's some crazy epic music while Dalek Sek is evolving and the captives look on.
Some thoughts about the review:
Like you, Mark, I'm kind of "why pigs?" Okay, they're pig slaves, whatever. I do like that the Daleks take advantage of the "disposable" people (well, not like, but appreciate as a story element). But yes, why pigs? My brain promptly wrote it off as one of the elements of this show that is more Kid's-Show-y than most of it. Technically this is a family show, right? As I watch, I do notice that it often works on several levels, which is great. More than not, what strikes me as most "kidsy" is often the design of the alien costumes–they seem to be tailored to what children might imagine, or to the fears children tend to have. Which is fine and lovely and doesn't detract from the aliens and creatures in the least. But basically that's how my brain worked in the pig slaves.
I liked Andrew Garfield's face, and also his character. I hope he survives and has a big role in part two. The character is so sweet and genuine, I just want him to have a chance.
Laszlo and Tallulah…I care a little? Mostly I'm just intrigued by Laszlo. I feel like if his conversion didn't complete, the Daleks would have just exterminated him. How did he survive and escape?
I love the concept of the Dalek's realizing they need to evolve. And the squid-y Dalek in the business suit? Hilarious and creepy-excellent job, Dr. Who.
Someone's probably already said this by now, but just in case: the Daleks end up there after the Battle of Canary Wharf in Doomsday. You see them teleport at one point just as everything's getting pulled back into the void; one of them says 'emergency temporal shift' or something like that. Apparently it took them to New York in the 30s.
Also, unf, Andrew Garfield. I do not blame the Doctor for angling for a kiss off him, too.
Also, unf, Andrew Garfield. I do not blame the Doctor for angling for a kiss off him, too.
Me neither.
I initially thought the temporal shift was used to move the lever back, but that does make a lot of sense.
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/mcalvm.jpg">
Out-of-context gif is out of context, but who cares?
Well Trivia time here!
A. The scene where Solomon settles an argument by dividing a loaf of bread is probably a Biblical reference to King Solomon who settled an argument between two women who claimed the same child was theirs by suggesting the child be divided in two.
B.The working title for the episode was originally "Daleks in New York" but was changed due to the fact that it would be easier to say Manhattan.
C.Miranda Raison's performance of "My Angel Put the Devil in Me" marked the first time an original song had actually been performed on screen in Doctor Who.
D. The amount of viewers who saw this the first time was 6.69 million and the BBC3 repeat was 1.13 million.
Also I have a story of what happened when this writer met the (in)famous Doctor Who forum Planet Gallifrey. Should I tell it today or tomorrow?
I vote tomorrow.. but my interest is peaked!
Tomorrow it is then! This story made me almost not go to Planet Gallifrey.
I mean Gallifrey Base!
Wow I've been failing.
I think it was called Outpost Gallifrey at the time, but it's the same forum, just a different name.
It was never called Planet Gallifrey which is what I called it. THAT'S why I failed. I admit that RTD made me laugh with a quote about it.
Oh man the "Solomon" thing… I was just like DID A DUDE NAMED SOLOMON JUST SPLIT THE LOAF OF BREAD. REALLY. @.@
Hello Andrew Garfield and your ridiculous accent!
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/2coqy5s.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I remember hating this episode when it first aired. In all of my rewatches of Doctor Who, this is the first time I've rewatched it, and… I actually didn't mind it! It was a lot more fun than I remembered. I watched ahead, so I have no idea what was in which episode, but I actually liked a lot of the character beats in this two-parter. Tallulah and Laslo were adorable and awesome. MUSICAL NUMBERS! 😀 The pig-people bother me both as kind of a weird/inexplicable idea and for sheer freakishness.
I'm always a bit meh on the Daleks as villains, but even they were kind of interesting here. At least it's taking them in a different direction.
Is it me or is the music singing 'this is a human dalek'?
I love Murray Gold (personally I like OTT Bombastic music) but isn't singing about it that obviously a little… much?
I think the fact the music sounds like it singing 'look it's a human dalek! This is a human dalek! Oh no a human dalek!' is the onoly thing I enjoy about this episode and then only because it's so mindbogglingly campyawesome.
Edit- I just had a moment of brilliance as refers to the 'why used pigs' thing. Because pigs are the most similar to humans in terms of the makeup of their flesh. It's true. Perhaps the daleks experimented with human/pig crossbreeds because of that similarity?
Murray Gold uses aramaic lyrics for his various Dalek themes, but you're right, I can't unhear the "this is a human Dalek" in the soundtrack of this episode, even though it's probably not what it's saying.
Again, please don’t tell me about it, but I have NOT picked up on this series’s overarching theme/mythology.
I always refer to it as "This season's 'Bad Wolf'"
Ex:
Oh, Torchwood must be the Bad Wolf.
Have they even mentioned this seasons bad wolf?
Yep. Well, no one has spoken the words, but they have appeared. *buttons lips*
Hmm…I thought that one person has said it already, but since I'm relatively new to Doctor Who I could just be thinking that ___ is the "arc word" without that really being case, I guess?
I think you could be right, and one person already said it.
Yes, it's been mentioned at some point already, I promise you.
3 times. It's appeared in one form or another 3 times.
4 times, spoken twice, seen twice (though one was actually during the previous season).
Oh yes. I'd completely missed the first one. Good catch.
A great cast with interesting characters, completely wasted by the script thus far. Here's to hoping for a strong finish.
I absolutely love the Daleks, they are always my all-time favourite Doctor Who villains and I am always happy to see them. Even while part of my brain is saying 'Er, a bit too soon to see them again though, isn't it?' my inner seven-year old is suffering some sort of Dalekophile meltdown behind a metaphorical sofa.
That said, this is not a favourite episode. Not by a long way.
I don't hate it. But I'm not exacty wowed by it either. I like the idea that the Daleks are so desperate that they're willing to try this – and the only reason they can even consider it is because the Cult of Skaro was created to 'thinka sthe enemy do' in the first place and thus breach the usual Dalek dogmatism. I like the fact that it's not set in London (although Liberty Island appears to have moved a bit closer to the rest of New York). I actually like Tallulah, although the accent was always doomed to fail – firstly because accents are surprisingly hard to do without it sounding like a travesty, and secondly because she seems to be aiming for a Depression-era accent found in media of the time, which has since changed in sound even if it was ever representative. So, in effect, even if she gets it right it'll still sound wrong. Funny thing is they could have just not bothered and handwaved any accents as an artefact of the TARDIS (does it still try to translate English into English? Who knows?). Oh well.
I was somewhat indifferent to Dalek Sec's new hybrid form, although any surprise was eliminated when it aired here (the UK) because the BBC's listing magazine Radio Times spoiled the whole country by putting him on the cover before it aired. Thanks, Radio Times.
Two small things I absolutely loved though: Martha recognising the word 'Dalek' when she'd only heard it in last episode's tell-me-the-truth moment. And the look on the Doctor's face/tone in his voice when he's analysing the blob during the musical number and says: 'planet of origin… Skaro!' The quiet shock, recognition and anguish are amazing.
And speaking of the blob:
'Oh and you just have to pick it up.'
Yes, Martha. Yes, he does.
And speaking of the blob:
'Oh and you just have to pick it up.'
Yes, Martha. Yes, he does.
She should just be thankful he didn't lick it!
I haven't read the book or watched the film, but oh, god, the trailer!
I adore historical episodes so I am more forgiving of plot holes. The 4 Daleks are terrifying but they need to stop using them all the time!
IT IS FUCKING BRILLIANT.
Never Let Me Go is one of my favourite books of all time, so I was kind of scared to see the movie. They changed a few things about the story, but kept the feeling of the book very, very well. And the actors playing the three main roles absolutely nailed the characters. It was like they'd stepped out of the book. One of the very, very few movies I ever cried at.
I love watching episode a while after they air, because when I first saw this episode, I had never heard of Andrew before, and I didn't realize it was him until a few months ago. When I mentioned it to a Doctor Who fan friend, the first thing she said was about his bad accent. I didn't even realize until super recently that he had an English accent.
I won't say I love this episode, it's kind of just alright to me, but it did get me some not so expensive action figures from it to get the Doctor. And I do like my action figures.
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I am so very less than thrilled with this episode.
More Andrew Garfield love! I honestly find him to be the second most attractive man on this show – after DT, obviously. Tall and scrawny = totes my type 😀
Also, regarding Man on Wire:
<img src="http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/movie-poster-mash-up/doctor-who/37.jpg" width="600">
I would watch that. I really would.
I don't know how to post images but macro from tumblr: http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7umld1Hm01qbt9…
It was only when I saw a screencap on Tumblr the other day the I remembered Andrew Garfield was in this episode. That would be because I'd only watched it once and didn't have any plans to repeat. It might actually be a decent two-parter, y'know, but I was so sick and tired of Daleks as villains that I think I'd already resolved to hate it when I saw the preview the week before (presuming they WERE in the preview…probably, considering they didn't try to hide it at all with the episode title).
I'll see what you think about the second parter and then decide whether I should ever re-visit it.
As a new viewer, everything I saw about the Daleks in the episode was a mind-blowing revelation. They AREN'T machines like I thought!? They have NAMES!? And they can travel through freakin' time like The Doctor!?
So much more than just trash cans. SO MUCH MORE.
They don't normally have names, I think the Doctor mentioned that in "Doomsday". He was surprised when they introduced themselves using names, since Daleks normally don't have any. Only the Cult of Skaro do.
You also see they aren't robots in "Dalek" in series 1.
It's a great episode!
Um.. I didn't like this episode's ending. ^_^; I agree with that one Dalek. The Daleks should remain pure. I dunno. I just like em better that way. Haven't watched the second part yet. Can't wait to see what happens.
I don't want to spoil anything right now, so I will leave you with one word to describe Dalek Sek. And that word is:
Cocktopus.
Congratulations, you have won the internet.
I wish I could take credit for that term, but it isn't mine. It does, however, make me giggle like a fool because my sense of humor clearly stopped maturing at age twelve.
Yeah, this was a "meh" episode for me, despite being a dalek fan. After the revelation of the last episode I was just biding time for more asdkfas;dlkn moments. And there weren't any IMO.
YOU ARE NOT PREPARED.
Uhhg. Daleks in Manhattan. It wasn't as awful as I remember it being, but maybe the second part will change that. Still, there was plenty here not to like, unfortunately. I'm not going to reiterate what everyone else is saying, but I do want to point out one scene that bothered me: the singing number.
It wasn't that I minded the song more than anything else in the episode- but it just ends up being a big mess of WTF? when Martha decides the best action upon seeing something strange is to run ON stage, mid-performance, just to make Tallulah aware that there's something creepy watching her?! I'm not saying anything against Martha, but the writers stuck her with the idiot ball on that one. What could have been a properly suspenseful scene of Martha sneaking around backstage to get closer to Laszlo the Pig with the song running in the background, was reduced to chaos and reduced Martha's role to gaping and pointing "Look!" Very helpful?
But that was funny! Tallulah had just asked Martha if she'd ever been on stage, and there she was *literally* on stage. I love that scene.
Yes, he was also in The Social Network, but I have no interest in watching that movie TYVM.
This is a good idea. It's overrated. Never Let Me Go is much better (only other Andrew Garfield movie I think I've seen).
But if you like staring at Andrew Garfield, The Social Network certainly gives you a lot of opportunities.
i imagine your episode of doctor who involving a hole in the world opening up and eating CATO from the hunger games. or, at least SOMEBODY from the hunger games. somebody bad.
Or Umbridge.
Rewatching this, deep-voiced dalek's expression of admiration of the dude they mutated with is like 10000x as creepy.
I like this episode overall, but the American accents are distressingly bad.
I think Spike was all over Europe for awhile, actually, though he spent time in New York during the seventies. At the very least, he was in Prague just prior to his introduction. He got around, that's for sure.
Markkkkk, I made you something.
I wanted to use another image or a million but there are of things yet to come.
<img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/elvyralani/doctorforeveralone.png">
I know this is one many online fans seem to hate, but I also enjoyed it. I agree with you– not the greatest but still had many good parts. Sometimes online fans get a little… extreme. I suspect most viewers- those who have not poured over Who for years and years– probably enjoyed it too.
IA that it had too many subplots, but I will always take a few Daleks over skies full of them… a few Daleks with a plot are freaking scary.
While Doctor Who has millions of regular viewers, its online fans rarely seem to be very representative. DW fan forums frequently seem seem to attract the sort of 'fans' for who you're not a true fan if you hate it any less than they do. It's often almost as if their posts are all trying to score highly on some sort of 'scale of hatred' in which how well you dismiss it all as the worst thing ever is all that counts.
The Mark Watches comments are a notable exception and I love that the general reaction to this episode has been a reasonable 'meh, not that great' rather than 'the production team must die for this heinous crime!'. Even the more heated discussions some episodes ago were quite genteel. I like this place.
I know, I've started spending more time reading comments here than Gallifreybase. Partly because I find it impossible to resist spoilers once I'm there, and I'm trying to cold turkey for the new season, but partly because noone actually seems to like anything that isn't about one of about 5 Tom Baker episodes!
Love the appreciation here!
Oh, here's a random fact, I almost forgot: The usual monster-suit actor, Paul Casey is credited in this episode as…HERO PIG!
*dies laughing*
they should make that into a tv series 😀
Exactly what I thought! 😀
OMG, completely forgot Andrew Garfield was in this. Have you seen 'Boy A' Mark? He's amazing in it (the drama itself is very upsetting and triggery).
"I don’t write Doctor Who. (But wouldn’t that be fun? I would seriously write a scene in which the earth opens up and eats someone. I would.)"
I… um. Moving on.
I wish I could enjoy the Daleks like you, I really do. Because whenever they show up I just roll my eyes and groan and I feel like I'm missing something fundamental about being a Who fan because I'm not all OMG IT'S THE DALEKS!!!
Let’s talk about about Andrew Garfield. As soon as he walked on screen, I had to pause Netflix and verify it was actually him, so that I wouldn’t get excited for nothing. IT IS HIM. And he didn’t have an accent! Of course, all I could think was OH MY GOD IT’S EDDIE DUNFORD FROM RED RIDING. Which…good god, WATCH RED RIDING. It is so goddamn good. (Yes, he was also in The Social Network, but I have no interest in watching that movie TYVM.)
I love you Mark. First of all, ME NEITHER, so WHATEVER to the 2349898743798 people who are telling me to watch The Social Network. I WILL BE OVER IN THIS CORNER WITH MARK. Secondly, "he didn't have an accent" BWAHHAHAHAH if by didn't you mean THE WORST ACCENT EVER. "Tennessee" my ass.
ANYWAY /drive-by comment
ALSO, the Daleks were in the 1930s because of their "emergency temporal shift" at the end of The Parting of the Ways. I don't know if the Cult of Skaro are the only ones who could do that, or if they're the only ones who thought fast enough to do it before getting sucked into the Void.
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