Mark Watches ‘Battlestar Galactica’: S04E15 – No Exit

In the fifteenth episode of the fourth season of Battlestar Galactica, we learn where the final Cylon has been, and Anders suddenly receives visions of the whole of Cylon history. Saying that shit gets real is instantly an understatement. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Battlestar Galactica.

Look, okayโ€ฆ.I have a lot to work through. I have a lot of questions. I have a lot of thoughts. Never has such a massive info-dump been given to me by writers who refuse to make such a thing easy to decipher. So, here is what I am going to do:

THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS

1) Did Edward James Olmos’s eyebrows win an award or anything? I think I would be perfectly content if, for the remainder of season four, he never spoke a single word. Instead, all his dialogue has been converted to facial expressions. I guarantee that not only will it work beautifully, it will improve the quality of every episode.

2) As far as I’m concerned, Adama accepting Tyrol back as his Chief satisfies (at least partially) my desire to see the people on this show just get along. It’s a scene of puppy dogs and hugs and unicorns and rainbows, and I’ll be damned if you take that away from me.

3) There’s further evidence of that in the scene where Tigh and Caprica Six bond over their child. Oh, and when Roslin and Lee are on board Colonial One and she insists that he’s the right person to pick the new Quorum based on ships in the fleet, not delegates from the destroyed colonies. These are hugs. These are puppy dogs. I will fight for them, gods damn it.

4) Hi, I’m Michael Trucco and I just acted the fuck out of this story, pulling off something that by all rights could have been a disaster if handled by anyone else.

5) Hi, I’m Dean Stockwell, and I just proved that I can mop the floor with other people who think they can “act,” because I just made John/Cavil both utterly horrifying and entirely sympathetic. At the same time. Can you deliver a monologue like I can? No, fuck you, you can’t.

6) Hi, I’m Kate Vernon and I act circles around both Michael Trucco and Dean Stockwell by giving a performance that provides a world-shattering transformation to the character of Ellen Tigh and I just improved the quality of this show my 464% in just a single episode.

7) No, I am not sorry, Kate Vernon for president or something, y’all. I am still in awe of what I’ve seen.

8) I will get to it in great detail, but this episode has just given me the most perfectly executed bout of exposition I’ve yet to experience. It was natural. It was woven so beautifully into the dialogue. There was a reason for it to exist. This goddamn show, I swear.

9) Hi, I’m Ryan Mottesheard, and I wrote this episode and I’m basically perfect because I found yet another way to “humanize” the Cylons, dump tons of information on you, and blow your goddamn mind. In forty-five minutes.

10) Okay, the John Hodgman thing is fucking weird as hell, but if you can attempt to remove your idea of who he is in your head (AND THAT’S REALLY HARD, I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT), he’s actually kind of perfect as the fascinated-by-this-all-to-the-point-of-being-almost-offensive surgeon.

11) Hi, I’m Grace Park, and I can play multiple versions of the same character and make it clear who that is I’m playing, and Fringe needs to hire me soon, thanks.

12) Hell is other people.

 

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS

So, I debated posting the forty million questions this episode spawned, but I worried that would be increasingly annoying as I tempted all of you to answer them when you know you couldn’t. That’s just me being cruel. Plus, it’s almost an act of absurdity; I don’t even know that I could actually do it, mostly because the “answers” we are provided do more than just give us additional questions. They fundamentally change our entire understanding of the Cylons, re-contextualizing nearly every single moment of every episode before this one. That is one damn ambitious thing for a show to do, and I gotta say: Battlestar Galactica executed it extremely well.

Instead, here’s what I am going to attempt: I have watched this episode twice. The first time it was for merely experiencing it. The second time was to attempt to piece together some sort of timeline for Cylon existence, and this is what I’ve come up with.

I know it may seem silly saying this, since it’s just expected around here, but PLEASE DO NOT CORRECT THIS IN ANY WAY. Obviously I do not have all the answers, and obviously my scope of knowledge is extremely poor. Think of this as me purposely making a fool of myself for your amusement and nothing else. Also, do you remember those logic puzzles you had to figure out? They were always like AMANDA IS TALLER THAN THREE PEOPLE BUT HAS FOUR EYES AND ONE PERSON CAN ONLY EAT TWO OTHERS AND HOW MANY ARE BORN IN JUNE. Those one? That’s what this is like. Trying to put together this information is FUCKING DIFFICULT.

Mark’s Attempt At Reconstructing The Cylon Timeline

– The Thirteenth Tribe/those of Kobol go to Earth and create Cylons.

– Somewhere along the way, the humans are exterminated?

– The Cylons on Earth did not use resurrection after it fell out of use once they were able to reproduce biologically.

– The Final Five, primarily Tyrol and Ellen, reinvented resurrection, which was a concept taken from the technology developed by the Thirteenth Tribe on Kobol. (So Centurions could always resurrect? OH GOD I PROMISED NOT TO ASK QUESTIONS.)

– Earth is nuked and destroyed 2,000 years in the past, and the Final Five were downloaded to a research ship; they were possibly warned?

– After Earth was destroyed, the Final Five headed back to the Twelve Tribes to warn them not to repeat the exact same history–creating Cylons and mistreating them so that they would revolt–but arrive too late due to relativistic time travel

– There, they meet the Centurions we are familiar with, and in an attempt to end the war, they agree to help the Centurions develop “organic” Cylons if they stop attacking humans.

– In exchange for peace, the Earth Cylons help develop eight original models.

– These humanoid models were programmed with the belief in a singular God in Ellen’s hope that it would end the “cycle of violence” the Cylons seemed to repeat over and over again.

– Ellen Tigh and the other four Cylons that comprise the “Final Five” create John/Cavil.

– The Final Five create the other seven models of humanoid Cylons.

– The model known as Seven/Daniel is destroyed/boxed/sacrificed for some unknown reason.

– Cavil becomes increasingly upset at his human body, the idea of god, and the limitations his “creators” gave him by constructing him in the way they did.

– Cavil boxes the Final Five after murdering them and erases their memories of Earth, choosing to later “awaken” them and insert false memories into them to force them to “experience” humanity in the hopes that they would agree with One/Cavil/John that humanity will always be inherently flawed, and humanoid bodies are an awful idea.

THINGS THAT DON’T FIT OR SEEM TO MAKE ANY SENSE

– So, the Temple of the Five: Ellen or any of the Final Five did not purposely rig the place to reveal the identities of the Final Five. Soโ€ฆhow does that fit in?

– So were there humans on Kobol who created Cylons? Tory makes a reference to that AND I UNDERSTAND NOTHING. I think I might just be confused about terms. FYI please don’t actuallyย answer that.

GODS HELP ME I AM SO IN LOVE WITH THIS AND SO CONFUSED AT THE SAME TIME

jfc this show

About Mark Oshiro

Perpetually unprepared since '09.
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135 Responses to Mark Watches ‘Battlestar Galactica’: S04E15 – No Exit

  1. Noybusiness says:

    Mark, the comment you made for "A Disquiet Follows My Soul" about there being no Head Six makes it clear that Netflix doesn't have the Extended Editions of the Season 4 episodes. You'll have to download the Extended 4.18 and the Extended Finale if you want to see them. Remember, the Extended Finale is all in one part, not three (4.19/20/21).

    Please reply here to let me know whether or not you are going to do this, and also if you want help finding the downloads if you are. Just to be certain of clarity: only 3 episodes have Extended Editions, namely "Disquiet", 4.18 and the Finale. (You could also buy the Season 4.5 set, but I assume – perhaps wrongly – that you don't want to spend money)

    • xpanasonicyouthx says:

      Do you happen to know if the copy of the finale on iTunes is the extended one? It's much longer than what's on Netflix, at least by 15-20 minutes. I'm okay ponying up the money to buy it!

      • Noybusiness says:

        I don't think so, because the only version I see advertised on iTunes of the finale is in three parts, and the extended one is all one on the DVD (with the normal one being split in two – 1 and 2&3). If Netflix has it in three and iTunes has it in three, but iTunes has it longer, it looks like Netflix actually cut the normal version down.

        • NB2000 says:

          The UK iTunes store also has it in three parts as well. Also, the Region 2 DVD of 4.5 has the finale in two parts (1 and 2&3) so it's not the extended version.

          • Noybusiness says:

            Yeah, the UK DVD doesn't have the features of the US.

            • NB2000 says:

              They did give us the extended version of A Disquiet Follows My Soul, and even put it on a seperate disc from the aired version, but none of the other episodes.

              • psycicflower says:

                I've got the complete series boxset and just did a quick check to see which versions it has and it seems to be the same as the 4.5 DVD. (part 1 normal length, part 2+3 just over an hour and a half together.) My less than legal ones are the same.

                • Noybusiness says:

                  I take it you have the UK complete series, then. The US has the Extended Finale. You have to go to the next page on the disc.

                  • psycicflower says:

                    Yeah, I've got Region 2. You'd think they'd try to keep the DVDs the same across regions, especially when it comes to the actual episodes, but I guess not.

        • xpanasonicyouthx says:

          Well, it's also important to know this sort of stuff because when I schedule the liveblog later today, I'd like to break it up in three parts so that I can give us two breaks/intermissions so people can pee, get food, walk their dog, high five an elf, whatever they need to do. Ideally, I'd like to split it up so that people who don't have extended versions available can still watch and sync up after each part.

          So HERE IS WHAT I AM ASKING LOL. How long is the extended version? Three hours? I saw one place where it was listed as 150 minutes total. Perhaps it might work if we do it like this:

          9am: Daybreak, Part I
          10am: 15 minute break. (This is assuming the non-extended version is 45 minutes, and the extended scenes add up to an hour.)
          10:15am: Daybreak, Parts II & III WITH NO BREAK.

          Would that be doable?

          • Noybusiness says:

            Yes, the nonextended part I is 43:46 according to iTunes, and there are 12-15 more minutes to the total Daybreak in the extended version (and a few other touches). Those extra scenes are peppered in both of the "parts", if the extended was split in two parts.

            • xpanasonicyouthx says:

              Perfect. Then I think I'll schedule it with one break. People will get a bit out of sync, but it's the unfortunate reality of it. Thanks for the help!!!

              • Noybusiness says:

                So are you seeing the extended or the normal version yourself?

                • xpanasonicyouthx says:

                  Extended for sure. I'm in Los Angeles, and they have the Blu-Ray copy of season four for like…$15. sorry that is the easiest purchase I WILL EVER MAKE.

                  • Noybusiness says:

                    Wow. And at B&N you have to pay $36.74 for the DVD. Enjoy the extended 4.18 and extended finale, and the extended 4.12 too!

                  • Noybusiness says:

                    Remember, you have to "turn the page" on Discs 1, 3 and 4, respectively, to get to the extended episodes.

                  • Shaylani says:

                    If you get a chance, go back and watch the extended version of 4.12. It really helps to explain why Baltar seems to have no respect for his followers anymore.

  2. Nicknames I Used for Ellen When Playing My Most Recent Online BSG Game

    Lady MacTigh
    Tigh Her Up, Tigh Her Down
    Tigh, Fight 'Er
    Ellen of Troy
    Ellen of Tory
    Ellen, a Handbasket
    Muhammad Elli

  3. Jenny_M says:

    John Hodgman was not a thing when this episode aired, so imagine my surprise upon rewatching and seeing him. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET A PC DO YOUR BRAIN SURGERY, Y'ALL.

    *posted from my iPad

    (J/K, J/K)

  4. Jenny_M says:

    Also, without giving anything away, I will say that the answers to some of your questions were in the episode. A rewatch may be in order!

    (Sbe rknzcyr, gur snpg gung gur 13gu gevor jrer nyy Plybaf. Ab uhznaf. Ng yrnfg nf sne nf V haqrefgnaq vg. Fb gur uhznaf qrirybcrq Plybaf ba Xboby, naq gung jnf gur 13gu gevor gung jrag gb Rnegu. Evtug?)

  5. Noybusiness says:

    Mark, I think I should answer your last question because the answer is actually stated explicitly in this episode. It’s not a spoiler, it’s like if you thought someone’s shirt was blue and I point out that it’s red.

  6. stellaaaaakris says:

    Wow, way to kill every happy feeling ever, Ishay. I was feeling good after a relatively upbeat episode, ominously named "No Exit." And then you came along and were all, "He's not there." I'm choosing to believe you unplugged the monitoring machines because you're angry at the Cylons (we've seen bits of that towards Hera and Tyrol) and Sam's actually just resting and fine. Because if there's one thing this show has taught me, it's that things usually work out in the end. Oh, wait….

    The new opening sequence was gorgeous and absolutely fascinating; I couldn't take my eyes of it. But I really wished they had shown the Cylons numerically by model. That seriously did bother me a bit. The things I choose to focus on.

    OMG so much new information! Cavil is really John and he knew who the Final Five were. My brain cannot handle this. I'm now experiencing serious ick at the memory of all interactions between Ellen and him. ๐Ÿ™ Who's Daniel? Why is Cavil such an ass?

    Loved Tyrol's look when Sam revealed that he and Tory were in love. Bwahahaha maybe she was cheerier on Earth.

    And Boomer's sass is back! Yes!!!! I've been holding out hope for you, Boomer, and I'm so glad my faith has been rewarded. You were way too much of a badass back on Galactica (poor ship) to be content being Cavil's "pet." (Seriously, John, why must you gross me out so much?) Sassy Boomer, spunky Boomer. ๐Ÿ˜€

    Lee is being awesome but why is being a politician so bad for his hair?

    Everybody on this show is too amazing. I can't believe this is almost done. Ohhhh, my head really cannot keep up with this show.

    • monkeybutter says:

      I hope you're right about Ishay lying because she hates them, and that Anders doesn't remain in her care for long, because that could end badly.

      • chikzdigmohawkz says:

        Mildly unrelated fun fact (which hasn't come up yet, surprisingly): Ishay is played by Jamie Bamber's wife.

    • Megg says:

      Oh man, Lee's hair. I actually rather enjoyed it, because it was so ridiculous. Like, I would be watching the episode and everything would be all dark and depressing and terrible and then it would be like "OMG LEE'S HAIR HAHAHHAHA". It was a nice way to break the tension.

      • Noybusiness says:

        Naq gura frrvat uvz jvgu gung unve va znevar havsbez va gur Svanyr!

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        Yes, in every episode full of despair and tragedy, I can at least be distracted by the mess that is Lee's hair and count on at least a giggle. It's what saved me from crying during the execution scene last episode.

    • chikzdigmohawkz says:

      According to Ellen, Daniel was the 'artist' of the family (so to speak – I mean, Ellen does consider them all to be her children), and she played favorites just a tad. So Cavil was envious of the attention Daniel was getting and basically killed him (I think Ellen said he made the DNA unusable, or some such). Which…I kind of understand and sympathize with. Which is not to say that I agree with the extremity of his reaction, but I get it. I love my younger brother, but I have seen the 'favored younger child' thing play out in my own family, and resentment happens.

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        Ahhh, yes, I forgot about that bit. Excellent point. The ass comment was more of a general dislike of Cavil than a question about Daniel in particular. I feel icky thinking about him and Ellen, calling Boomer his pet, boxing the Threes, trying to kill all the Cylon models who disagree with him, taunting Tyrol since he clearly knew he actually was a Cylon during that confession, etc.

        I cannot keep my thoughts organized any more. Basically whatever crosses my mind will wind up in one of these comments in an order that makes no sense.

    • Noybusiness says:

      They did show the Cylons in an order, though. The order they showed up in the series.

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        Didn't realize that; that's interesting. I'm at work so I can't check, but didn't they show Leoben before Sharon in the explanation set up thingy? In any case, my preferences would have liked them to be in numerical order rather than chronological by appearance. Just my preference. It would also have helped me clear up which number is Leoben and which is Doral, because I keep mixing them up.

    • knut_knut says:

      I wonder if the producers and the heads of every department got together and were like
      "hmm, Lee is too nice for a politician; it's unnatural. What kind of flaws can we give him?"
      10 minutes of silence
      "…how about terrible hair?"
      "PERFECT!"

    • notemily says:

      The Wiki confirms that they showed the Cylons in the order that they were revealed to be Cylons to the audience.

  7. monkeybutter says:

    I love having Ellen back, her every interaction with Cavil and Boomer, and how she's changed now that she knows what's going on, with Kate Vernon stealing every scene. And yet, the best part of the episode was watching Starbuck restrain herself from throttling John Hodgman. He should totally do guest appearances on the Starbuck and the Fighting Agathons spinoff.

  8. Noybusiness says:

    Why do you say the reason Seven was destroyed (not boxed, according to Ellen) is unknown? Ellen said that Cavil sabotaged the developing line and made the formula unusable.

  9. shoroko says:

    So my response to this episode was to try to organize the massive info-dump as much as possible, which I think might be helpful here! Keep in mind, this was my reaction when it aired, so I might have Gotten Things Wrong/Misunderstood Things, but… I'm not going to tell you if I did. Warning for massive tl;dr.

    Okay, I feel like the first thing you have to do is sort out what the frak they said. So:

    There was Kobol, and there were the humans on Kobol. The humans built the Cylons on Kobol, who eventually became the Thirteenth Tribe. It's not clear what kind of relationship they had with the humans, though the fact that they split in very different directions and that the Cylons left 2000 years before the humans suggests it probably wasn't great. They stopped to build the Temple of Five where God showed them the way to Earth (also notably, they appeared to be monotheistic while the humans would have been polytheistic, maybe? I wasn't so sure about God coming from the Colonial Centurions, so much as the Colonial Centurions and the Earth!Cylons agreeing on it). It sounds like they had Resurrection technology, but once they had established their colony on Earth and gained the ability to procreate, they no longer used it and lost it entirely.

    Some thousands of years later, the Five are warned of the impending apocalypse through visions only they could see. I'm still not sure what caused it – TWoP seems to suggest from Tyrol saying "We already saw the cycle" that their own Centurions wiped them out, but maybe it was Kobol, I don't know. Anyway, they redevelop Resurrection technology. They downloaded upon Earth's destruction, and decided to go to the human Colonies (maybe they weren't on such bad terms) to warn them not to fuck with AI. They don't have light jumps and so travel at sublight speed, meaning that time slows down for them, and it's two thousand years later by the time they find the Colonies. The Colonies are already in the midst of a war with the Centurions they built, and the Final Five ended the First Cylon War by promising to help the Centurions develop human form, which they had already been trying to do, but only getting so far as Hybrids (which Athena had previously described as an "evolutionary dead end"). They agreed to do this at all it seems because the Colonial Centurions were already monotheistic, which showed they had a capacity for love. The Five built eight models, for whatever reason giving them Resurrection rather than procreation, though I guess they could procreate with the Five, as Six and Saul show us. They were presumably built in the order of their numbers.

    The Ones, being built first (and in the image of Ellen's father, John), helped build the subsequent models. Since Saul showed up shortly after the First Cylon War, all thirteen models presumably didn't live in harmony for very long. The Ones permanently killed off the Sevens (named "Daniel") then killed and boxed the Five, and over some period of time released them with false memories into humanity. He must have also reprogrammed the other Significant Seven to forget the Five and their origins. All of this was in a lead up to the genocide against the Colonies, with the Five purposefully surviving it in order to experience how much it sucked to be human.

    The end.

    Basically, that's a lot of information to get in forty minutes.

    I've seen the phrase "Deus Ex Machina" thrown around, though I'm not sure I'd call it that since it's not… some single thing that suddenly changes everything, so much as a massive infodump of massiveness that. Which. Yeah, ow. The component that may be the most akin to that is that now, Cavil really really is our villain. It now appears that he even manipulated the other Significant Seven into destroying the Twelve Colonies, as much as anyone can be manipulated into doing that. It arguably takes too much responsibility from the Cylons, which is what the series has been pushing for ages, though I'd say considering Tigh's comments about how their construction of the Eight Seven implicates them, that they built Cavil even if the humans did through them or in part because Cavil's ancestry traces both from the Five and from the Colonial Centurions… well, they've made sure this all spreads onto absolutely everyone possible. When it comes down to it, rather than being the mechanical creations of humanity, the Cylons are now being described as part of an organic pattern of existence whether anyone likes it or not. A line of thinking that suggests this could have all been prevented if the humans just hadn't built the Cylons becomes like imagining what the world would have been like had that foramen magnum never aligned to allow upright posture.

    Anyway.

    (And now splitting my comment because it's too long.)

    • shoroko says:

      And as much as Cavil describes himself as a machine, we saw him at his most human in this episode, in his jealousy and pride and wrath. His rants about the limitations of humanity hardly seem very machine-like – how can a machine yearn to learn more? How can it hate its own limitations of perception? How can it care?

      And though I will make fun of it for this – come on. It's not like Battlestar Galactica has ever made any attempts to hide how it plays on religion, especially Greek mythology. And there's one thing you're going to get out of that – a lot of incest. Sleeping with your mother who is also your daughter, blinding your father, generally torturing your parents and stealing away their power in order to rule over your siblings? Sounds like the stuff of Greek tragedies to me. Not to even go into what the Cylons are now – it's interesting, when you think about it, that apparently the Thirteenth Tribe chose procreation over Resurrection. As Caprica-Six is already describing it, this is the Cylons' means of survival now. But it's not just that – it's their means of immortality. It's the only thing they have to keep living. Greek Mythology made Woman a symbol of Man's mortality because she could give birth. In ending Resurrection, the Thirteenth Tribe made the conscious decision to sacrifice the ability to live indefinitely, choosing instead to live on in future generations. It also suggests that if they were to procreate, they had to die.

      Is that what you'd choose? Would you give up a means of immortality in order to be able to create new life?

      Maybe it's why the Five gave the Eight Resurrection instead of procreation. They loved their children so much that they could not bear the thought of any eventual death. Ironically, the actions of Cavil, who so desperately clings to his mechanical ancestry, are what set into motion the events that will finally give the Colonial Cylon their mortality.

      (And their humanity.)

      It's 4 AM and I'm thinking about this a lot.

      But if you want a creepy scene in that episode, I'd also go with Ellen offering an apple to Boomer.

      And in another bout of Cylon-Human lovemaking, Galactica will need to become part-Cylon in order to live. How fun.

      Everything else is going into sidenotes:

      – John Hodgman was hilarious, but a little distracting. He was so comical that it seemed out of place among the DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA of the other actors. Plus it almost came off as stunt casting. But whatever, it was still funny.

      – Lee Adama is the President. I think they could have just left it that way after Laura's Vacation With the Cylons and saved everyone a mutiny.

      I cut out a couple things that were, right or wrong, speculation, but yeah. I have to admit, I didn't pay that much attention when rewatching "Blood on the Scales" because it was so upsetting the first time (I don't mean it was bad in some way, but it was certainly pretty hard to take), that I just didn't feel like doing that again. So I kind of welcomed the massive info dump/return of Kate Vernon yay!

      • evocativecomma says:

        Did you not read the part above where Mark said

        “I know it may seem silly saying this, since itโ€™s just expected around here, but PLEASE DO NOT CORRECT THIS IN ANY WAY.”

        ?

        • chikzdigmohawkz says:

          This isn't a correction, it's the summary/recap/whatever that the OP wrote right after the episode aired.

        • shoroko says:

          As has already been pointed out, this comment does not supply any "corrections." What Mark meant was not to answer any questions with information many of us have from having watched the entire series – not to give him spoilers despite that it might come off like he's asking for them. As I specifically noted, I wrote this when the episode aired – when I had the same frame of reference that he does now. (I even note that I may have gotten things wrong at that point, but that I wasn't going to comment further on it to avoid even approaching spoilers.) There's nothing in this comment that wasn't in the episode, and none of it is influenced by any future information given that I, of course, didn't have it.

    • Noybusiness says:

      An interview with Jane Espenson clarified that the Thirteenth Tribe were polytheist, including the Final Five until they met the Centurions. Makes sense, given that they had a Temple of Aurora on Earth. Ellen says "God showed them the way to Earth", but that's probably her perspective as a monotheist.

    • robin says:

      //"The component that may be the most akin to that is that now, Cavil really really is our villain. It now appears that he even manipulated the other Significant Seven into destroying the Twelve Colonies, as much as anyone can be manipulated into doing that. "//

      This was my biggest revelation in the episode. This is the point that re-contextualizes the series for me the most. I don't personally know if it was needed… I still want the cycle to end, regardless — for me they didn't need to take some of the responsibility for the genocide off the other Cylon's backs. The Cylons have punished themselves at this point by taking away their own immortality and in the end what's important it so stop the violence and move forward into peace. But I can also see how obviously it would make things easier. And it was quite a clever idea that definitely morally complicates matters. And BSG is all about moral ambiguities and complications so why not?.

    • Peter says:

      Your thoughts express mine ๐Ÿ™‚

      Great point about Greek myths and tragedies. I know some people didn't like what was done to Cavil here, seeing it as a reduction or simplification of his character, but I don't think that's true at all. If anything, it's just making him a classical character. Mommy/Daddy/Sibling Issues may not be original territory, but one of the reasons they're so often visited in literature is because they provide a lot of ground to cover, and it is true that they are MAJOR motivators of human psychology (and at this point, I think we can all agree, Cylons and humans are basically the same). And as for Boomer, she's a great tragic figure – all of this horrible stuff has happened to her (being activated + associated psychological stresses, Cally shooting her, D'Anna being an evil and manipulative bully on Caprica, Cally getting Chief and rejecting her on New Caprica, being rejected by Hera, then to have her inadequacy to Athena forever confirmed, and then to be killed by Caprica), which of course leads her to make the horrible but seemingly inevitable choice to give up belief in love, to attempt to become a heartless machine, broken and manipulated by Cavil, his "pet." There's no way that won't be a miserable existence. But unlike the classical tragedies, where redemption usually comes only through death, Boomer gets to rediscover humanity and love! Yay!

      "hayvxr gur pynffvpny gentrqvrf, jurer erqrzcgvba hfhnyyl pbzrf bayl guebhtu qrngu, Obbzre trgf gb erqvfpbire uhznavgl naq ybir"

      YBY WX gbgnyyl ylvat nobhg gung

      As for everyone watching the show for the first time, you can always pick up more by watching this one again!

  10. omire says:

    So what I made of all the exposition was: (no spoilers for anyting after this episode but rot13ing just in case?)

    Gur svefg uhzna-glcr Plybaf jrer perngrq ba Xboby. Gurl ribyirq, gurl eroryyrq, Xboby jnf eraqrerq havaunovgnoyr. Gur uhznaf yrsg va bar qverpgvba naq sbhaqrq gur Gjryir Pbybavrf, gur Plybaf yrsg va gur bgure qverpgvba naq sbhaqrq Rnegu.

    Gur Plybaf perngrq gurve bja Praghevba-glcr ebobg freinagf. Gurl ribyirq, gurl eroryyrq, rirelobql qvrq rkprcg gur Svany Svir jub erohvyg Erfheerpgvba grpuabybtl nsgre orvat jnearq ol Urnq!crbcyr.

    Gur Svany Svir frg bss gb svaq gur uhznaf naq jnea gurz gb cynl avpr jvgu gurve perngvbaf. Gurl neevir gbb yngr, svaq gur uhznaf naq Praghevbaf ng jne, pbaivapr gur Praghevbaf gb fgbc va rkpunatr sbe Erfheerpgvba naq rvtug arj uhzna-glcr Plyba zbqryf.

    Gurl qb n cbbe wbo perngvat Ahzore Bar, ur pbzrf bhg nyy gjvfgrq naq rivy. Qrfgeblf Ahzore Frira, trgf gur Praghevbaf naq gur bgure fvk zbqryf ba uvf fvqr, naq oenvajnfurf gur Svany Svir vagb guvaxvat gurl'er uhzna.

    N srj qrpnqrf yngre, ur nggnpxf naq gur frevrf unccraf.

    About right?

  11. knut_knut says:

    – I LOVED the image of the Centurion helping Ellen out of her resurrection tank <3 It was very sweet
    – WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE CYLONS AND THEIR SLIGHTLY INCESTUOUS AFFAIRS? Ellen models Cavil, her “son”, after her father, and unknowingly has sex with him. Cavil is Boomer’s Brother-Father and has a relationship of sorts with her. It doesn’t seem like this is a big deal to them, but it’s still pretty weird to me.
    – rot 13-ing even though it’s not a spoiler: Sebz zl haqrefgnaqvat gur 13gu gevor vf nyy plyba, ab uhzna, juvyr gur bgure 12 gevorf bs Xboby ner uhzna (jvgu znlor fbzr Praghevbaf V’z abg fher), juvpu znxrf Znex’f gvzryvar jebat, urapr gur ebg13. V’z thrffvat sebz jung Fnz fnvq gung vg jnf gur Praghevba’f gung eribygrq naq pnhfrq gur ahpyrne nggnpx ba Rnegu, ohg jrer gubfr Praghevbaf perngrq ol gur crbcyr ba Xboby be gur Guvegrragu Gevor? V pna’g gryy vs gur Guvegrragu Gevor jnf znqr bs bayl uhznabvq plybaf be vs vg jnf n zvk bs uhznabvq naq Praghevba. I need a very detailed timeline of who made what and went where.

  12. Jerssica says:

    JOHN HODGEMAN IS MY FAVORITE CAMEO!! Seriously, even though I was super upset about Anders (Michael Trucco, YOU'RE AMAZING) I was so delighted by John Hodgeman. Favorite cameo! (Well, Hodgeman and Mark Shepard of course)

  13. guest_age says:

    I was reacting to this episode on AIM with a friend who has seen the whole series and when Hodgman showed up, she was like "…what? I do not remember that at all." Maybe he wasn't…you know, known when this aired and so it didn't stick in her mind?

    I also have a…theory about Daniel but it's one of those things where it's probably wrong and I am not quite as brave as you, Mark, so I'll keep it to myself. How are we only days away from finishing this series. It seems incomprehensible. There's still so many questions!

    Edited to add: This does explain something, though! I always wondered why there was a model named "eight" if there were 7 known models–wouldn't the known ones be 1-7 and the "final five" be 8-12 or something like that? Makes sense now that we know there was a Daniel, because that makes 1-8 instead of 1-7. I think. UNLESS I AM WRONG OH GOD MORE QUESTIONS.

    • Peter says:

      "This does explain something, though! I always wondered why there was a model named "eight" if there were 7 known models–wouldn't the known ones be 1-7 and the "final five" be 8-12 or something like that? Makes sense now that we know there was a Daniel, because that makes 1-8 instead of 1-7."

      It almost seems as though Number 7 was thought up as… a retcon!

      • chikzdigmohawkz says:

        A retcon, you say? Inconceivable!

      • guest_age says:

        If they never explain Daniel, then sure, I'll agree to that. However, with episodes still to go, if they explain Daniel, I'm not counting it as a retcon. For me to consider something a retcon, it has to make no sense. This, though it raises questions, so far does. (Standard disclaimers that my opinion may change after I finish the series, etc etc.)

  14. bearshorty says:

    When I sat down to rewatch this episode I was surprised at the Anders scenes because I only remember that this episode was about Ellen. She definitely made an impression here. I love the moment when we see Ellen remember who she is – Kate Vernon's acting is outstanding.

    There were many bits of information in this episode that it appears you missed, Mark, due to the large amount of info dump. There are things I want to mention that were in this episode but you didn't appear to catch. So I'll rot13 them.

    V yvxr gur guebjnjnl yvarf ol Naqref, evtug orsber ur urnqf vagb fhetrel gung gurl jrer jnearq ol crbcyr ab bar ryfr pbhyq frr naq gung Gleby gubhtug ur unq n puvc va uvf urnq. Vg vf n terng pnyy onpx naq pyhr gb "qrfgval" naq n sbepr gung vf znavchyngvat nyy bs guvf.

  15. NB2000 says:

    It's been…what, a little over two years (three? I suck at this sort of thing) since the series aired and it wasn't until fairly recently that I was finally able to start to make sense of the Cylon timeline, hell I'm probably still missing bits of it. V guvax gur nqqvgvba bs vasbezngvba sebz Pncevpn vf jung guerj zr bss gur zbfg gubhtu. I think what you've got there is more or less right though Mark.

    "I named you after my father." "And you made me in his image." AND HE KNEW THAT ON NEW CAPRICA! SO WRONG ON SO MANY FRAKKING LEVELS!

    I think I like Cylon!Ellen more than when she thought she was human. She's still the same basic character but there's a different edge to her now. Now that she has the knowledge of her past and what she is she seems less selfish in a way. The way she talks about Cavil and Daniel you can see her caring for people besides herself and Saul. The change in her wardrobe, from the pinks that she used to wear to now being in almost exclusively black sort of reflect this. It makes her look a bit more serious. (Oh and I crave the dress and jacket she's wearing at the end of the episode). The bit with the apple, it's no dry ice drink but it's yet another perfectly appropriate prop for her.

    • chikzdigmohawkz says:

      That dress – I wants it.

      As for the apple – well, I took it as being the fruit of the tree of knowledge (from Genesis). Ellen is 'teaching' Boomer about the origin of the humanoid Cylon models, thereby offering her knowledge. Actually, now I've got a whole long essay in my head comparing this episode to Genesis. Damn you, Mark Does Stuff, why do you make me think?

    • NB2000 says:

      Fvapr vg qbrfa'g ybbx yvxr nalbar ryfr unf pbzzragrq ba guvf:

      Fbzrjurer nybat gur jnl, gur uhznaf ner rkgrezvangrq?

      V'z thrffvat ur zrnaf ulcbgurgvpny uhznaf ba gur rnegu gur guvegrragu gevor frggyrq ba orpnhfr ur qbrfa'g xabj nobhg gur frpbaq rnegu lrg. hayrff V'ir pbzcyrgryl zvfhaqrefgbbq jung ur zrnag ol gung.

  16. Karen says:

    This was the episode that turned me into a full fledged Kara/Anders shipper. I can't really articulate it, but for some reason this was the first episode that made me think they could work in a real relationship long term.

  17. Noybusiness says:

    The only thing that vexes me about the Cylon mythology is that it's established here there's only one of each of the Final Five (not counting spare bodies), so there's only one Anders. One Anders and untold Dorals. Fairness is dead.

    Speaking of the spare bodies, imagine all the creepy things that Cavil could be doing with them.

  18. robin says:

    Starbuck broke my heart in this episode. Still hiding her identity crisis from others and desperate to know who/what she is and her purpose, allowing Sam to push onward because she too wants to know… I think at this point she would have been relieved to find out she was the 7th model, just to have an answer.

    I love how Ellen is the woman we know as Ellen, but also there's now this level of wisdom layered over the rest. And the way that she speaks to the Centurian with such respect — for me it's another small sign of how much Cavil has debased the Cylons in the 5's absence.

    It's darkly humorous that Cavil's indignation and self-righteous anger revolves around the constraints of knowledge that he feels were build into/forced upon him… and yet his own revolution was all about taking knowledge and free will from others (stripping it from the Centurians & Raiders*, stripping it from The Five, stripping it from his brother & sister Cylon models)… all so he could bend them to his way of thinking.

    I think it's fascinating how he rejects the "humanity" built into the humanoid models and so sets about de-humanizing the others by making them surrounded only by programmed machines & not only removing their parents [a very human concept] but also all *memory* of their parents. I think the Twos, Eights, and Sixes are the models most in touch with feelings/faith/fear/love because they're the ones who still managed to hold onto a lingering connection to the hazy, blocked idea of their parents.

    * since we know they had free will prior to the Five's arrival, it was given back to them by the Rebels, and the Five would never had authorized taking it away, my interpretation of the info-dump in this episode is that this was one of the steps taken by Cavil when he assumed man-behind-the-curtain power upon deposing The Five

    • Noybusiness says:

      Hmm, it's never clear about those inhibitors. In the Final Five comic, the Five design the new Centurions with inhibitors to prevent them from evolving so that the moral quandary won't come up. But that's a non-canon comic. But remember the new Centurions, the ones with inhibitors, aren't the same model that fought in the war.

      • robin says:

        Hmmm… I don't know. I really dislike that idea, so I'll personally stay with canon in this case. But re: the new Centurions… good point. I will have to rewatch these final episodes again sometime to see if I can pick up anything more decisive in that area.

        One abandoned storyline that I'm really sad about is that the writers originally planned that we'd get to see the Rebel Centurians become more and more "humanized"/given personality as S4 progressed. But then there wasn't enough time and they had to cut out that subplot. STILL GIVES ME THE SADS.

        • Noybusiness says:

          Right. Right now the Centurions still aren't as smart or self-aware as their predecessors. And still can't talk, poor things.

  19. chikzdigmohawkz says:

    Also, do you remember those logic puzzles you had to figure out? They were always like AMANDA IS TALLER THAN THREE PEOPLE BUT HAS FOUR EYES AND ONE PERSON CAN ONLY EAT TWO OTHERS AND HOW MANY ARE BORN IN JUNE.

    42 of them were born in June.

    I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays. I want to hear x-rays and I want to– I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly, because I have to– I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language. But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws… and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. ~John Cavil

    That monologue is just so beautiful and heartbreaking and beautiful and now I kind of want to experience the world in that way.

    And now, time for squick (look, if I have to think about this, then I'm not suffering alone): Cavil is Ellen's 'son'. Cavil was based off of Ellen's father. Ellen had sexy times with Cavil in order to get Tigh out of prison on New Caprica. ::shudder::

    Tyrol's awkward laughter after finding out about his relationship with Tory in the past – both endearing and, um…kind of insulting to Tory. She's not my favorite character, but she deserves to be more than a 'thing' (and an unwanted 'thing', at that).

    'I love you John, because I made you.'

    That's…that's…no, Ellen, that is NOT an explanation for why you love your 'children'. Writers, you have failed. This completely disregards all of the parents out there who do not, in fact, love their biological children – even though they 'made them'. And what about the adoptive and foster parents and people who raised their relatives' children who love them – they didn't 'make' their children, but they love them anyway. No, just…no.

    • Noybusiness says:

      "Writers, you have failed. This completely disregards all of the parents out there who do not, in fact, love their biological children – even though they 'made them'."

      It's a normal thing for someone who is a biological parent and loves and raised their biological children to say. The writers weren't thinking or talking about foster parentage.

      • chikzdigmohawkz says:

        That doesn't excuse the fact that it's there in the script. Along with many other things that have been pointed out in the past as being problematic.

        • Noybusiness says:

          I don't think it's problematic. People are *supposed* to love their children "because they made them" (among other reasons). The fact that some biological parents don't do what they're supposed to just makes them bad parents, and it says nothing about adoptive parents either way.

          • chikzdigmohawkz says:

            Well, the problem that I have with it is that there wasn't anything following that statement. It was just 'I love you because I made you.' Not, 'I love you because I made you and also x, y, and z'. Even though Ellen was saying that giving the Cylons human traits was a good thing, she still reduced them to objects with that statement.

    • robin says:

      Just a different POV — I personally read the "i love you because i made you" line a little different, because he's both her son and her CREATION. Like authors often say they love the book they wrote "like a child", and how people feel about their inventions that take on a life of its own. Ellen "made" John in a way that human parents don't make their children. She wrote his code, she designed his personality, she assembled his parts, she put him together — which I guess is almost like the equivalent of humans raising their children. She gave 'birth' to an adult, not a child, because the 'making' was shaping him into the person he would be through the choices she made. Just, they were more direct & literal than the shaping human parents get to do, via raising their children into adults. So I felt here like "made you" was not equivalent to 'I had sex with someone and biologically produced you from my body."

      But of course your mileage/interpretation will vary. I'm not saying I'm more right. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Noybusiness says:

        This. And she did so with the intention of making a child to love, as opposed to, say, Dr. Frankenstein.

      • chikzdigmohawkz says:

        Hmmm, I understand what you're saying. Personally, though, even a parent viewing an adult child (would offspring work better? mneh) in such a way is unfortunate, to say the least. It's still reducing a person to an object. 'I love you because you are something I created (biologically or otherwise)' as opposed to 'I love you because you are a person and yes, I did have a hand in shaping your personality, but you've made your own choices and I respect who you've become'. (To add a little context, my father is very 'follow in my footsteps or else you are not worth much'. So that colors my interpretation just a bit.)

        • Noybusiness says:

          Perhaps it does. I think it was in the sense of "Believe me when I say I love you because we have this irrevocable connection."

        • robin says:

          I agree, I do think there is something unfortunate in how Ellen views things. But in my opinion, that's an intentional character screwed-up-ness, not the writers dropping the ball (in this instance). And yes, I think the conflict is that that Cavil does feel like Ellen in a way has made him her object. For me, Ellen during the episode is caught between "it pains me that you aren't following in the footsteps I felt you should" and "i made you this way and so ultimately i have to love you despite all the bad things you do". And Cavil rejects & resents BOTH of these sentiments.

          Which I think is something that also helps the audience empathize with him a bit. (Even while being aware of all of his ickiness with Boomer and killing his "brother" Daniel and stripping people of their memories and hating humanity and such.) We can truly feel for Cavil and the position he was put into, while also rejecting how his "solution" meant taking away identity, free will, and life from others.

    • bookyworm says:

      I think Cavil's monologue here is a huge part of the essence of his character. He's frustrated with what he is, which isn't even his choice. His creators, whom he knows weren't that special or gods or anything, dictated him to this body and this existence just because of what they thought was best. They made him in the image of humanity (i.e. Earth's humanoid Cylons) and from his point of view, why would you deliberately imitate something flawed?

      Add this to the history of his particular centurions and humans, and why would he not want to distance himself from anything that reminds him of either humans or the final five?

    • Nobody says:

      Ellen is not all of the parents out there who do not, in fact, love their biological children. She isn't speaking for them. She does not represent them. She doesn't even have to be anything like them. The writers don't have to pay regard to those parents or to anyone else in the real world. They simply have to make a character who is consistent and believable within the world of Battlestar Galactica. You might not agree with something that character says or feels, but that doesn't mean the writers failed. It means they succeeded in creating a character with whom you disagree.

  20. cjeffery7 says:

    wow i've seen these final episodes probably like 4 times and haven't taken away as much as you have from watching this particular episode twice. "i gravel at your feet." Lion King reference, anyone??

  21. akacj18 says:

    well ok, i accept that memories were put inside their head of their lives as regular humans. but that still doesnt account for, in particular, tigh and adama's memories of growing up together. adama's memories would have had to be "uploaded." oh wait, did cavil introduce the final five over time? and does this then answer the question of can cylon's age? tigh MUST have considering his relationship with adama. and thus ellen too. in which case do the cylons on the baseships resurrect themselves when they feel they are getting old? cause there has got to be ONE humanoid cylon that has not been killed throughout its "life span." or maybe its just not significant to the story. i guess. questions, questions, questions!

    • Noybusiness says:

      Adama and Tigh do not have memories of growing up together. They met years after the First Cylon War, on a freighter. We saw it in "Valley of Darkness".

    • robin says:

      Adama and Tigh actually met & became friends at least a decade after the Cylon War (Tigh believing he was also veteran of the war and Adama eventually bringing him back into the service when he got an appointment again himself), so though they did "grow old together".. they were already older men when they did that. Since the Five showed up after they Cylons had already gone to war with the Colonies and got the Cylons to say they'd have peace if they could be shown how to make human models.. that the timing works. Adama has true memories of Tigh and visa versa, but Tigh has false memories of his years fighting the Cylons and everything prior to that. His true memories start sometime in the gap between starting to work on ships as a Cylon-War veteran and meeting Adama.

      On Cylon aging: I assume that the Five do because they were a type of Cylon that had evolved to procreate and not resurrect. However, they didn't age during the space journey/time travel shenanigans.

      • chikzdigmohawkz says:

        Well, traveling at sublight means that very little time passed for them, while many, many years passed for everyone else. So there's that.

  22. hamnoo says:

    Who is Ellen's father?
    I forgot. I don't even know whether it's explained. Feel free to rot13.

  23. Ryan Lohner says:

    I definitely thought after this episode (and note that I am making NO COMMENT on how true it turned out to be, thought I'm still rot13ing to be safe, so there's technically no spoilers but I get that people might want to develop their own theories) that Fgneohpx jnf gur bar erznvavat Qnavry, jvgu gur pbeehcgrq QAN erzbivat uvf L puebzbfbzr (gung jubyr guvat nobhg ubj nyy uhznaf ner srznyr jura pbaprvirq naq orpbzr znyr vs vagebqhprq gb L). Rfcrpvnyyl fvapr vg jbhyq or n terng zrgn ersrerapr gb ubj Fgneohpx jnf n zna va gur bevtvany fubj.

  24. karate0kat says:

    HERE HAVE SOMETHING SLIGHTLY LESS SOUL CRUSHING AND BRAIN 'SPLODING

    <img src="http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls0ucvdPP71qapp5ko1_500.jpg"/&gt;
    <img src="http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqhu2g0VP91qfh0avo1_500.jpg"/&gt;

  25. feminerdist says:

    I absolutely LOVE Dean Stockwell's beautiful monologue in this episode. I was thinking the same thing as Mark during my rewatch.

  26. breesquared says:

    I love you for your #12 comment IS THIS MY DREAM PLAY I THINK IT IS, FUCK YEAH TITLE REFERENCES. #theatrestudentdreams

    They were always like AMANDA IS TALLER THAN THREE PEOPLE BUT HAS FOUR EYES AND ONE PERSON CAN ONLY EAT TWO OTHERS AND HOW MANY ARE BORN IN JUNE. Those one? That’s what this is like.
    This paragraph sounds just as loopy as I am right now, but maybe I'm biased. Anyway — this is one of the few BSG episodes I keep watching, quite strongly for the reasons you say; great acting, great exposition, sooo much information in an interesting way.

  27. ChronicReader91 says:

    O_O

    Holy shit.

    Now that’s how you do an info dump.

    The one thing I don’t understand about the cylon history is how the five travelled to the colonies, which should have taken them only a few years at most, but somehow almost two thousand years passed between the destruction of Earth and their arrival?

    Oh hey, guess what was in my comment for Crossroads: Tyrol’s dreams in the last season finale. And freaking Cavil telling him he was AFRAID HE WAS A CYLON ASGASHJDJHGSJ HE FREAKING KNEW. EXCEPT HE DIDN’T BECAUSE HE DOESN’T KNOW WHO THE FINAL FIVE ARE OR DOES HE. And this from my season four predictions: 6. At least one of the “main seven” knows more than the others about the Final Five. I’m saying this because it seems just way too convenient for four of the five to be in important places in the fleet just by coincidence.

    See? I totally knew it. Those were completely 100% accurate predictions,/i> and not lucky guesses and I was absolutely prepared.

    • @LizatLAX says:

      The Five were traveling at speeds that cause relativistic time dilation; so time essentially slowed for them. I figured out their journey took approx 12 years subjective time (a.k.a. how long they experienced on the ship, including time to accelerate), but externally it still took over 2000 years for light and their ship to travel that distance.

  28. notemily says:

    OK first of all, I love the opening to this show. It takes us right back to the beginning. And then… ELLEN!

    Major props to Kate Vernon for the portrayal of Ellen's resurrection, waking up, realizing–REMEMBERING–she's a Cylon, and then calming down and asking a Centurion if he could help her up, please. Amazing acting there.

    Anders! FINALLY someone getting BRAIN SURGERY on television has their head properly shaved. I hate when that doesn't happen.

    I love how Ellen's entire character changes. Cylon-Ellen is a very different Ellen from the person who thought she was human. I love her.

    Cavil still sucks in just about every way imaginable. He says he's trying to be a perfect machine, but then doesn't realize that he's acting so goddamn human. Ellen says she knew him as a "little boy," which is interesting, because I thought all the numbered Cylons were "born" as fully grown adults. I'd like to see the creation process here.

    "He's teaching me to be a better machine." You still suck too, Boomer. I'll let you know when you're off my Suck List.

    "What about the swirl?" I love Ellen for conveying the fact of just how CREEPY Cavil is, as is the fact that he was sleeping with his creator "mother" down on New Caprica, in that one line.

    Cheese and fruit! I want some cheese and fruit. Nom nom nom.

    Ellen holds out the Metaphorical Apple of Knowledge to Boomer. I see what you did there.

    "You two lived together." Chief and Tory? They… they did? o_O That pairing is just weird. Especially considering SHE KILLED HIS WIFE. I want him to find out about that SO BAD.

    So the 13th Tribe Cylons had resurrection in the beginning, but figured out how to procreate. They had to work really hard to get resurrection back. And then they gave resurrection to the numbered Cylons, and those Cylons worked really hard to figure out how to procreate again. Heh. All of this has happened before, etc.

    "You're frakkin telling me they cut corners?" WELL WHAT DID YOU EXPECT THEY DID IT TO ALL THE PAPER LOLOLOLOLOLOLLLLL okay I'm done

    WOOO relativity! I love when this show puts actual science in the science fiction.

    lol surprise there was a thirteenth cylon. (what did you expect, there was also a thirteenth colony!)

    Cavil is right about one thing: Eyes are pretty ridiculous.

    Seriously, though, why hasn't he just put his consciousness into a Centurion body or whatever? Built himself the perfect mechanical body and then gone to live there? I don't understand why he keeps being human if he hates it so much. Or can their consciousnesses not be transferred in that way?

    OMG I COMPLETELY FORGOT THAT JOHN HODGMAN WAS THE BRAIN GUY. WHAT ๐Ÿ˜€

    I love that Starbuck just looks at him like "I WILL END YOU."

    Cylon bedrooms are so weird. They're… the opposite of cozy. A huge bed in the middle of a furniture-less room? No thanks.

    "You see how she forces me?" Yeah that's just straight-up abuser language right there. "It's YOUR fault I suck so much!"

    It does seem kind of unwise to have to have all five of them in order to make resurrection happen, though. I mean, come on, it's not like this is the Coke formula or anything.

    I love that the CENTURIONS were the ones who had the One True God. I don't see how this would Change Everything, though. One God followers can be just as much assholes as Many God followers.

    Now we find out just how much of an asshole Cavil was. He SUFFOCATED THEM and made them live as humans with no idea of their true nature.

    What was Anders talking about at the end there? How they saw visions of people no one else could see? As "warning signs"? For the impending apocalypse? Hmm.

    Poor Starbuck, your name is not Daniel. You still don't know how the fuck you came back from the dead.

    "We should get, like, a crib…" do they have an IKEA ship?

    Saul Tigh, Proud Daddy is still really cute.

    Poor Adama. His ship is dying ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™ ๐Ÿ™ Adama and Galactica have never NOT been two parts of a whole, on this show. It's hard to imagine either without the other.

    I had to look up "tumbrel."

    Aaaand Boomer is off my Suck List! But she's still On Notice.

    A Cylon musical would be AWESOME amirite.

    Kara talking to Sam is so cute. Ishay, why you gotta ruin it. Cylon hater.

    Yes, Michael Trucco definitely deserves acting props for this as well.

    I loved those logic puzzles! Ima get me a book of logic puzzles.

    I don't know if the Centurions could always resurrect, but it makes sense from a computing standpoint. You just take the backup data from one computer and insert it into another computer. Not so easy with people-brains.

    • chikzdigmohawkz says:

      It does seem kind of unwise to have to have all five of them in order to make resurrection happen, though. I mean, come on, it's not like this is the Coke formula or anything.

      I think it's more a situation of each having their own area of expertise, so Tyrol knows what he worked on, but maybe only the basics of what Ellen's part of the process was, and so on.

      "We should get, like, a crib…"

      Tigh's new project for Arts and Crafts night.

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