In the ninth episode of the third season of Battlestar Galactica, in order to help relieve tensions of the crew, Admiral Adama reinstates an old tradition of having various crew members beat the shit out of each other. And shit gets real. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Battlestar Galactica.
I think it’s a sign of how strong the writing is on this show when something that interests me as little as boxing can still provide a riveting, emotional episode like “Unfinished Business” just did. I think my aversion to boxing comes from being forced to watch it as a child. The same goes for football and baseball. (But not professional wrestling??? Maybe I just loved looking at half-naked buff dudes. lol can you tell i am gay.) I did try to be interested by sports, but I’m sure it was more to impress my father. It seemed like the only way for me to be close to him, but I knew that I didn’t actually like it.
So it’s not an intellectual dislike of these things. I think I associate them too much with my problems with masculinity when I was growing up, and I’m at a point now where I’ve just…gotten interested in other things? Like I am not going to sit here and even attempt to say I’m opposed to sports or anything. It’s a disinterest: it happens, and I’m just too busy watching Doctor Who serials to care about it.
Yet HOLY SHIT THIS EPISODE IS SO AWESOME. The highly detailed camera work that dances around the boxers, putting us in the middle of these emotionally-charged fights helps create a sense of urgency. Even if we don’t know why there’s a fight when the episode opens, it’s clear that it’s not just for sport. Helo and Lee are fighting a bit too personally, it seems, but why?
What I loved about the format of “Unfinished Business” is how this is structured as a flashback episode, but the flashbacks are designed to imitate the thoughts of the people in the story. Obviously, it’s designed in a poetic fashion to slowly reveal the story to us, but I appreciate the way that we got these brief flashes that filled in what happened when the humans first settled on New Caprica. I didn’t think we’d ever return to those moments, but now, in hindsight, I’m glad we did get another look on the colonization efforts and how that has affected the human population.
“Unfinished Business” also works because it spends time on a variety of characters instead of focusing on the main conflict between Starbuck and Lee. Though, let’s not kid ourselves: they are the main attraction. (The whole thing really does work as a giant boxing metaphor, doesn’t it?) As Lee and Helo fight, Lee is distracted by memories of New Caprica. I will admit that I initially thought these were visions or daydreams, not a recollection of a memory. It wasn’t until Roslin’s and Adama’s memories started flashing on the screen that I realized everything we were being shown was real, that it had actually happened. Honestly, I can’t explain why I thought this. My brain does strange things sometimes, so at that point, I just FORGOT about the image of Lee waking up without a shirt on. It’s like my mind just wants me to be constantly surprised.
Okay, I’m sidetracking myself. I think that if I was to ascribe a single theme to “Unfinished Business,” I’d say this episode shows us that if you think things are awkward, you are wrong. The writers will make the very next moment more awkward than the last. At least things start off kind of pleasant, and the Roslin/Adama shipper in me gets a veritable FEAST of material for me to gush over in this episode. And look, there has not been enough of these two being cute as hell in this season, so “Unfinished Business” gives us:
Adama complimenting the color of Roslin’s dress, and Roslin acting all shy
The whole sticking-toes-in-the-sand-but-it’s-not-really-sand thing.
“It’s good to see you.” Oh, no, Roslin, it’s good to see YOU. oh my god.
The arm squeeze. THIS IS WHAT I’VE TURNED INTO. An arm squeeze calls me to fall off the couch. I love this show.
ROSLIN AND ADAMA GETTING HIGH. YES. BEST SHOW OR BEST SHOW.
The entire sequence where they snuggle under starlight and talk about how good life is at that very moment. This is what I want from life. I will judge all future relationships against this scene and no other. If my future boyfriend doesn’t do this with me, WE ARE THROUGH. The bar is set high, y’all.
And just when I am full of the most giddy, sappy joy of all time, we are treated to a procession of painful, horrifying awkwardness. From here on out, it’s TERRIFYING how this episode takes what is suppose to be mere catharsis for the ship’s crew and gives us an emotional disaster. The more I think about it, I think that this is a massive chunk of the show’s mythology hidden in what might seem like a disposable one-off. I would argue that “Unfinished Business” is integral to the entire series because it not only gives more of the timeline on New Caprica, but it gives us a very specific context for what is to come. I would no be surprised if multiple events from this episode are referenced in the near future, especially what happens between Lee and Starbuck.
Yet if this episode were a line graph, the final portion would violently jut off-screen. The thermometer would explode. And I would sit on my couch, clutching my head in my hands, wondering if Todd Solondz had decided to visit the BSG writers’ office and giving them tips on how to best make me feel like I shouldn’t be watching what’s going on in this episode. I mean, seriously:
- Oh, cool. Starbuck thinks it’s awesome to insult Lee in front of his wife. That’s a good idea.
- Oh, a flashback to Adama denying Cally and Tyrol the permission to raise their child on New Caprica. Well, this is getting awkward.
- Oh, now Adama is challenging Tyrol to a fight. Well, this can’t be too bad, can it?
- Oh, it starts off with a sucker punch when Tyrol’s back is turned. Adama. Adama what are you doing? Oh god, this fight has gotten so uncomfortable in a matter of seconds. Oh my god ADAMA WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO TYROL HE JUST WANTED TO RAISE HIS KID ON THE GROUND
- Lee, you are really drunk in this flashback. Why are you talking to Starbuck? This cannot end well.
- TYROL IS KICKING ADAMA’S ASS. Holy shit LOOK AT THE CROWD, WHY IS THIS HAPPENING. my insides feel terrible i feel like I am sinning just by watching this.
- Adama’s face looks like hell. This is like watching a visual representation of what it would sound like when my parents fought. MOM AND DAD ARE FIGHTING
- Oh, no, Lee. Starbuck. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TWO DOING. YOU ARE MAKING OUT. I mean, it’s kind of hot? WAIT NO. I KNOW YOU ARE BOTH KIND OF MEANT FOR ONE ANOTHER. oh god this is so wrong. i can’t look at this oh my god what the fuck
- Oh, you’re yelling about how much you love one another and you’re naked and you clearly did not end up together so this is just setting this all up for disaster. This cannot get worse. This is so awkward.
- Why did I think that? It got even more awkward. Starbuck LEFT LEE OUT IN THAT FIELD BY HIMSELF. What if like…a wildebeest came out of nowhere and ate him or something?? Have you not seen The Lion King? Those fuckers come out of nothing to fuck you up.
- Oh. It got worse. Oh. Oh. Everything just got a new context. oh my god Starbuck married Anders the day after hooking up with Lee. This is the very worst thing of all possible things. I just….I cannot handle how this makes me feel. They both cheated on their significant others and then ran back to them? That seems like a shaky foundation for a relationship.
- Oh, we’re back to the boxing match? You know what’s a good way to ruin a boxing match? You stand up after having your face bloodied by an officer of a lower rank and you give a speech that makes everyone feel guilt for not only enjoying the boxing match, but for the events that led to them being taken advantage of by the Cylons.
- No, seriously, I yelled, “ADAMA YOU BUZZKILL” during this scene. And just when I think this couldn’t not get any more uncomfortable….
- STARBUCK CHALLENGES LEE TO A FIGHT AND HE PUNCHES HER IN THE FACE.
- i just can’t. I was curled into a ball of awkwardness at this point.
- Okay, Starbuck could probably murder me. That’s not really awkward. Just admitting the truth.
- So it’s bad enough having to watch these two BLUDGEON each other when it’s clear they are both still in love with another. Right? Because it’s fucking awful.
- Then it’s made worse when it’s clear that Lee is just taking out his fury on being stood up on Starbuck and then I just want them to hug and make up.
- Which is fucking ironic, right? Because both Dualla and Anders watch this shit with looks of disgust and confusion because THEY DO HUG. And I get what I want and it is then suddenly something I WANT NONE OF.
- No, seriously, when the crowd starts leaving, I realize there has never been a more uncomfortable moment in this show’s entire run.
- This is like a combination between watching a parent ruthlessly punishing her child in public and a gratuitous display of affection between a couple. It’s somewhere right in the middle of that, and I want to be shot out into space on a rocket, as far away from this moment as possible.
There might be an element of romantic brilliance in that final scene, as the two hug each other, covered in blood, and they both tell each other that they’ve missed the other. Of course, I’ve been secretly wishing they would get back together, but this is a fucking nightmare. I can’t help but think how this is going to hurt Anders and destroy Dualla. Oh god, Dualla. How does Lee go back to her after this?
It’s fascinating to look at the urgent, joyful moments of the opening of “Unfinished Business” and then think about the final image given to us. This episode is certainly fascinating, but it is hardly a happy ending. Can I say this is a hot mess? Because that’s what it feels like. These characters have made a mess of their love life, and now I worry about how this will affect the future.
I mean, this shit is good writing. Don’t get me wrong. It’s hard to take your characters to such a dark place, and I commend the show for being honest about Lee and Starbuck. But…good god, THIS IS SO AWKWARD. My soul felt dirty after watching this.
Christ. So what the hell happens next?
Unpopular Opinion from the Past Time
After the Avatar S2 finale, BSG cannot compare, especially when it's this boring. So I heard this rumor that Lee and Kara sorta like each other? Did you know?
Mostly, my feelings about this episode can be summed up by the question "WHERE THE HELL DID THEY GET A BOXING RING?" This story was much better on Oz, when there was more cursing and people died.
Obviously the boxing ring came from the fleet's arts and crafts night. They needed something to do after they ran out of space ship models to make.
Yeah, Gaeta made the ropes out of his back hair.
Crocheted eye-patches for Tigh.
Calligraphy divorce papers for Dee and Lee.
Project Podium, during which they designed new clothes for Roslin (who is looking lovely this season.)
Quickie shoerack for the Officer's cabin.
Unpopular opinions of my present! I don't mind the sexual tension as part of the overall story-arc, as a story in and of itself I wasn't into it.
The cinematography looked awesome though.
The flashback scenes were all filmed at the start of the season, and were intended to be woven throughout the whole thing. Then for whatever reason, they decided that wouldn't work and just dumped them all here. The end result feels uncomfortably like the show is trying to be Lost, and while it manages more emotional resonance than Lost usually could, it's still extremely awkward to watch, and definitely toward the bottom for me.
My thoughts while watching this episode:
Roslin: "Did you throw your tags in there?"
Adama: "I wish, all the frustrations that I have…"
Me: "Are in your pants! Kiss her already!!"
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ADMIRAL BUZZKILL. That's totally what I thought too. Though he does have a point.
i don't even care though because the scenes with adama and roslin on new caprica are just so frakkin' cute i can watch them over and over again omg omg omg
I expect a LOT of gifs/images for this episode you guys. A LOT.
This is in my top 10 episodes from the entire series. I could watch it over and over. So perfect. So beautiful. I felt so terrible for Lee. I just loved this episode so much. I cried and cried. I really did.
You did watch the extended version, right? Starbuck and Tigh laugh while Anders and Ellen are asleep? Lee proposes to Dualla?
As far as I'm aware Mark plans to watch the extended versions of any episodes that have them.
Yeah he did plan to, but he didn't mention specifically that this episode was extended in his recap, or scenes exclusive to that version, so I wonder if he forgot this time.
I didn't forget, so much as…well, the extended version wasn't available. Netflix just decided to include only the standard one in the stream. Which is weird??? Considering all the past extended episodes were part of the stream, so I don't know why this one wasn't.
I saw the scenes after I wrote the review.
Good, 'cause practically every scene in the episode was different in some way and otherwise your BSG experience would never be complete.
I hope you don't have problems watching the extended 4.12, 4.18, and 4.19/4.20 (it's a single episode as the extended version). If you do, there are other places than netflix to look for them on the web.
Filestube, for example.
Warning, my shipping hat is firmly in place for the first part of this comment.
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Here’s the thing about Roslin/Adama for me, aside from the fact they’re possibly one of my absolute favourite ships. Most of my ships are clearly canon (or obviously going to be canon/end game) or are never going to be canon and Roslin and Adama just does not fit into either of those categories. From the get go I can’t tell if they’re actually going to get together or not, or whether they’ll just keep teasing us, so I get very asdfghjkl; about them because I just want them to get together but every time it looks like they could be getting close, something happens. This episode is like a shippers dream in terms of Roslin/Adama, space parents getting high! Roslin wants to build a cabin! Watching the stars together! Unsubtle we should live for the now! and then Adama makes his speech and even though Roslin is helping Adama out of the ring they go all formal and address each other ‘Madam President.’ ‘Admiral.’ and all I can think is why are you doing this to me!
Random stuff because I ran out of time:
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-Can I just lol a how Chief was clearly expecting an easy fight until Adama punched him. I need to lol thought because later in the fight feels like Adama is punishing himself by letting himself get beaten so badly and it’s terrible to watch.
–The Dance and Adama Falls Still love you Bear McCreary.
-Oh look, one of my favourite spin offs has expanded into The Fighting Agathons and Starbuck as BFFs. (ngl, I was delighted when Helo beat Lee.)
–‘You know I’ve always wanted to date a ball player. Such great arms.’ So say we all Ellen. So say we all.
-I don’t really like the quadrangle of doom and therefore don’t have much of an interest in it. It’s sad because all these people love each other in some way but Starbuck and Lee are just hurting themselves and the people they care about and it cannot end well for anyone involved.
-This episode just hurts in so many ways because watching the New Caprica scenes you know it doesn’t end well, it just turns out we didn’t realise how messed up it was from practically the start.
I really love "the fighting Agathons" as you call them in this episode. Everyone else is all angsty and they're just hanging out in the background being adorable and happy and stable.
It's my favourite part as well 🙂 I love them together so much. Not to say I didn't enjoy the rest of episode as well.
There's a facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Fighting-Agatho…
but I can't find a gif when she's helping him prepare for the fight, my favourite bit.
Great page. I adore it when Sharon says about Lee 'with a cooler head he might have half a chance' against Helo.
Also, lets have a gif party…
The Fighting Agathons!
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<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/vwz85f.gif" alt="Helo and Lee fight">
Victory!
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Hotdog?
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Wonder how this is gonna go…
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Adama wants some of that luck…
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(ngl, I was delighted when Helo beat Lee.)
Me too! The episode started so abruptly and I had no idea what was going on but I sat there yelling "Yeah, Helo, kick his ass!" and feeling kind of guilty. But then Helo won and Athena was there and Starbuck hugged him and I was like "Fuck Yeah!" I support the Fighting Agathons+Starbuck spin-off!
<3<3Bill/Laura gifs<3<3
Rofl at Chief's face after getting knocked down, it's a bit like his "Wait…did I shoot those Centurions?" moment back in "Fragged". Hasn't quite processed what just happened.
The Fighting Agathons and Starbuck as BFFs
Why is this show not real?!
If there are Bill/Laura scenes be assured I will gif them like my life depends on it. (I'm only sad I haven't had the time to figure out how to change colouring/lighting, otherwise there would be so many daytime New Caprica gifs of them.)
ALL HAIL THE RETURN OF THE ADAMASTACHE.
Adama/Roslin FOREVER AND EVER.
Also, has Ellen seen the men on Galactica? Are there better arms out there? No wonder she was hitting on Lee…
DIE PORNSTACHE, DIE!
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You have to love the Galactica crew and all the wonderful arm porn they supply.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm, BAMCEPS.
I was pretty excited about the return of the mustache
Another vote for The Fighting Agathons + Starbuck BFFs show. With the coaching and the hugging…awwww
Seriously the best thing about this episode which otherwise gives me major second-hand embarrassment and makes me want to smack Lee and Starbuck upside the head (then run and hide for eternity because they could easily both kick my ass) – hey guys, Sam and Dee are right. there.
Beautiful gifs <3
Bill/Laura is my favorite ship after the Fighting Agathons. This episode is all of my dreams come true.
It was painful watching Adama get beat up. He was doing it to prove a point and do penance, and yeah, it sucks seeing him punish himself.
I was all happy and shippy when Roslin was in his corner and giving him boxing advice until she asked if he wanted to win and he said he wasn't going to. From there on out I just kept thinking, someone please make it stop.
me too! I love how she was his coach for 2 seconds, giving incorrect medical advice <3
Oh no…is it weird that I now kind of want to watch an alternate-universe version of this show, where Adama is a boxer and Roslin is his coach?
Someone find me this fic! (or any fic really, I have no idea where to find the good stuff for this fandom since I came along late)
The holy land of AR fic: http://mujaji.net/adamaroslin/
Also, adama_roslin on lj is still quite active, considering how long the show has been over: http://adama-roslin.livejournal.com/
They both contain spoilers for the show's entire run.
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Next free weekend I have I am all over those sites!
I know, I wish Tigh could have called the fight like he did for Lee, but there was nothing to be done until Adama was. 🙁
Tyrol's in a shit sitch.
A) You don't want to be beaten up by a guy that's well over twice your age.
B) You don't want to be seen beating the living shit out of your boss who is well over twice your age in front of a bunch of people that all think he's the shit.
C) He has a pretty good repore with Adama and prolly didn't want to anyways, so yeah.
Yeah, most of my excitement for getting to this episode may really be about the fact that we can now safely call them The Fightin' Agathons.
"What if like…a wildebeest came out of nowhere and ate him or something?? Have you not seen The Lion King? Those fuckers come out of nothing to fuck you up." – This is EXACTLY what disney wanted us to take away from that movie. Not respecting the balance of nature, not learning to accept responsibility, but to BEWARE OF THE GODDAMN WILDERBEEST
I HATE THIS EPISODE.
SO MUCH.
UGH.
IT IS THE WORST. Well, that's not true. It's not the WORST, but I still hate it. I hate it when marriages or whatever current relationships are presented as an ~obstacle~ to the show's OTP and that feels like this is where the show is headed. No me gusta. I hate cheating and I hate it when shows are trying to get the audience on board with cheating because Lee and Kara ~love each other~. UGH. DNW.
But this episode did have adorable Bill/Laura moments, so it wasn't a total waste, I guess.
I still hate what this episode did with Lee/Kara though.
lol, I agree with you about Lee and Kara being the show's OTP and it sucks how Dee and Anders are treated, but I think Lee/Kara has always been fucked up. This wasn't even the first time that Lee hit Starbuck. This episode is just part of their natural, screwed up progression. And I don't think it portrayed their cheating in good light. They're shown as really flawed people who are hurting others because they refuse to deal with their issues openly. Lee kissing Dee right after he found out about Starbuck and Anders reeked of spite. I don't think you're supposed to think "oh, they're adorable together <3 <3 <3" so much as "holy shit, I wouldn't wish them on anyone else."
"holy shit, I wouldn't wish them on anyone else."
RIGHT.
Me too.
And can I add that the first time I watched it when it first aired I was completely baffled that we were supposed to believe that Lee and Kara loved each other? Like I got that there was something between them, but this big undying love they're trying to sell here? Just did not buy it.
I 100% agree with you here, and it's a *huge* reason of why I hate Lee. Kara never promised to be monogamous.. even when she married Anders. He's aware of that and wants to be with her anyway. Lee presents himself as this super noble guy, etc.. and he cheats on his wife!
He's using Dualla basically to get revenge on Starbuck who has always been a loose canon.
I have the same problem with Lee. He presents as noble and good and we're supposed to believe him the better person.
But he's just a huge jerk so much of the time. And it goes back to the pilot where he's an ass to Tyrol because he's mad at his dad.
Ugh. At this point I wonder why anyone would want to be with him.
I hate more what they did in making Dualla a doormat in the proposal scene.
"hay I'll say yes cause we have no time left"
Uh if I wanted to spend my few days left happy I most def wouldn't be choosing to spend them committed to someone who I didn't even think cared about me at all? I mean what?
See, I don't really read it that way. I think Lee and Kara getting together while they were both involved with other people was a terrible idea. But it was what people DO, because sometimes people cheat on other people and get involved with people they shouldn't, and it seemed in-character to me. And I think the very end of the episode is about them repairing their friendship, not a romantic relationship–but their spouses don't really see it that way, so I could be wrong.
Dear Playback UK: No it's okay, I totally didn't want to watch an extended version of this episode. You really honestly did me a favour by not including it. And the commentaries? Pfff who needs those am I right? Basically, FRAK YOU AND THE RAIDER YOU FLEW IN ON! from, NB2000
It may seem weird considering how much I squee over them but I'm pretty sure this was the moment during the original run when I finally started shipping Bill/Laura, like, properly (In my defence I'd only started watching at the end of season 2 and didn't see the earlier stuff until later). Because this episode? OMG they're so damn cute and snuggly and <3<3<3 Totally have to agree with Bill, that red ensemble is gorgeous on Laura. Them bonding over their interest in boxing, okay it's not the literary squee we got back in 33 but it's still cute.
Bill telling Lee about Kara getting married, it might hurt even more because Bill just sounds so happy for her. As far as he knows his adopted daughter just got married. He doesn't seem to realise just how crushed his son is at the news.
New Craprica actually doesn't look as crappy in these flashbacks, hell it even looks kind of nicewhen it's all sunny like this. The celebrations for the groundbreaking, specifically the dancing are a nice touch. It looks like it's clearly a set type of dancing that everyone seems to know. Yay building Colonial culture. I will say that the Lee's-POV shots of Kara during the opening montage gave me Titanic flashbacks though.
They're not in the episode as much but "The Fighting Agathons" <3<3 They need to be called that more often okay.
I really like this episode. But I'm such a sucker for flashbacks filling in emotional story. Speaking of, Mark, go back and look at your predictions for this season, specifically the first one, and then award yourself all the bonus points (minus 1 for Baltar not really being in this episode)
I love that Roslin and Adama spend the majority of this episode being high and adorable.
I just want to smack Starbuck. She's so tragically broken and so determined to fuck her life up more. I want her off this self-destructive spiral. It's seriously affecting the people around her at this point.
When Dualla accepts Lee's proposal and promises to love him "until Kara comes back" my heart absolutely shatters. She really does love him and just wants him to be happy and it's going to hurt her so much.
So, you know that "just kiss" image? I need one the opposite of that for the hug between Lee and Kara. They were so close and I was so sure they were going to kiss right there in front of their spouses and I was yelling "don't do it! don't kiss!"
When Dualla accepts Lee's proposal and promises to love him "until Kara comes back" my heart absolutely shatters. She really does love him and just wants him to be happy and it's going to hurt her so much.
Wait, how did I miss that? Was that only in the extended version? I thought I was paying pretty close attention, but I might have been distracted by the baseball game on TV, even if I did mute it. If it is on the extended version, how can I get my hands on a copy? Netflix instant only has the regular version….
I guess it must just be in the extended edition. I bought the DVDs. I'm not sure where else you can watch it
*cough*3×09*cough*
She's so tragically broken and so determined to fuck her life up more. I want her off this self-destructive spiral.
Maybe it's because I simply can't imagine any kind of lasting or peaceful relationship between Kara and Lee, I sort of see her marrying Sam as her trying to get out of that spiral. Rfcrpvnyyl jura jr svaq bhg jung unccrarq orgjrra ure naq Yrr jura fur jnf fgvyy qngvat Mnpx.
Yeah, I don't think think that they would actually work in a long term relationship. They spend too much time fighting. Also Kara is basically screwing up ANY chance lee/dualla had, which is sad as I think they (lee/dualla) would actually work really well married if he wasn't cheating.
My only complaint was that Starbuck initiated the fight when she was the one who was in the wrong, i mean it was in character for her to be confrontational about it but it kind of annoyed me.
This episode did give me all the joys though because i was so irritated that bsg had shown us many Lee and Kara moments and then just dropped them all of a sudden for Anders and Duala, and when Lee had been all pissy at the beginning of season three i thought he was overreacting to that comment Starbuck made about him fracking Duala and now i am happy for good explanations and because i am total Lee-Kara shipper and that scene of them proclaiming their love for each other fills me with joy.
Hahaha I was reading this and thinking "That is just what my daughter said while we were watching…"
OH HAI
Srsly, this show did not handle Anders and Dee well at all. I'm not opposed to Lee and Kara having relationships with other people, far from it really, but neither do I believe that marriage should never be messed with or shown as flawed in a story – they're both deeply flawed individuals and they did some awful things to each other and to other people, but still, I can't help but feel so horrible for them. I know Sam/Kara and Lee/Dualla shippers don't like it, but the fact is, Apollo and Starbuck are important to each other and they're both just fucking miserable during the Year of Not Talking – we NEED to see how it happened.
This episode both fills my heart with joy and then RIPS IT RIGHT OUT OF MY CHEST USING A JAGGED KNIFE FOR MAXIMUM PAIN at the same time. Not least because of Lee and Kara, them hugging, oh my heart.
I agree with all of your comments. You know my pain KINDRED SPIRIT
Look, I've never wanted to smoke pot before, but if I had the chance to do it with Adama and Roslin? HELLS TO THE YES. GUYS, LET'S GET HIGH WITH SPACE MOMMY AND DADDY.
Yeah, I think I like the structure of the aired version better than the extended version. I mean, I love the extra Lee/Kara bits, but I think the flashback were woven in better in the aired version.
Oh Kara. You are so damaged and messed up and I love you and want to smack you at the same time. Lee LOVES you. And you love him and then you just leave him? I know you have issues but gah. NAKED JAMIE BAMBER SRSLY.
Yep, aired version > extended version for me too. The former is weirdly close to being poetic with the way it's shot and presented, like a love song to Lee and Kara.
And oh, Kara. Never have I wanted SO BADLY to just pluck someone out of a screen and tuck her into bed and feed her soup and tell her that she doesn't have to be afraid of love and I know there's a war on but please don't be terrified of losing him? Which is what drove her to doing THE UTTERLY AWFUL THING she did to Lee – I should be mad at her but oh my gods her face the next morning, you can see she hurt herself almost as much as she hurt him. My poor pilots…
I think the short version is presented largely through Lee's point of view. The flashbacks are framed as his. We don't see Kara in the flashbacks acting outside of him. Outside of the first scene with Anders, we really don't see her acting apart from him in the boxing story either.
It borders on objectifying her in a way.
I much prefer the long version because we get at least some of her thinking in it.
It's partly his pov on her, especially during the dance, but I never really thought that seeing the woman he loves through his eyes = objectification.
The post-party events seemed a little like shared pov in the field, though that was brief. Ditto with their argument immediately before the boxing when they're putting their tags in the box. And the aired version does give us Kara waking up the next morning and her reaction to seeing Lee walk away after he learns of her marriage, it's not really all Lee, all the time.
Objectifying isn't quite the right word, but I'm not really talking about Lee anyway. (Although I do often think that he's more in love with his idea of Kara then he is with the reality, but that's another argument.) I'm talking about the show and how it frames her actions through his POV. It makes her decision All About Lee and His Pain not about her and why she made the choice she did.
It's funny, but I never really thought that her decision was All About Lee – the impression I got from the aired version was that Kara cut and ran and finally married Sam because of her own fears, which is hinted at since she wakes up before Lee does, looking really apprehensive, and finally in the street when Lee congratulates the two of them and walks away.
That's not the impression that Lee gets, it's the one we do (as far as he's concerned, she's just done something heinous -massive understatement there – with no warning). You're right that the extended version explains her side of things a bit more, but it's not like the original version lacks her side of things completely. At least that's how I feel about it.
I totally agree with this–it was about her fears. And I think that comes across in Katee's acting (I almost wrote Kara's acting) in the aired version. (I haven't seen the extended one; I don't know where to find it.) She wakes up and panics and can't deal with what she's done, so she runs back to Anders, who is the safer option, because they don't have the same history and she wasn't responsible for his brother's death and all, and also because I don't think she can take the intensity of Lee's love for her. After all this time she still doesn't think she's worthy of it.
I don't know if it's because we usually see them in ship lighting or if it's because they're usually not so relaxed but both Roslin and Ellen Tigh were looking positively radiant in this episode.
The difference is remarkable.
[youtube uOkhG8Mpd-Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOkhG8Mpd-Y youtube]
Love love LOVE this one. Psycicflower mentioned it above so I just had to post it.
Also, you know it totally has a double meaning because Adama literally falls in the boxing ring and he's also totally falling in love with Roslin don't deny it.
There's a reason this is so close to 'Roslin and Adama', that's all I'm sayin'.
yes, he is. <3
Just reading this review has revived the OMG awkward I felt from watching the episode, so I will say something unrelated to get away from that feeling.
I remember RDM talking on the podcast commentary about how nervous and so-not-cool-with-it the network kinda was about showing Starbuck enjoying her some sex. You can't show a woman climaxing on TV! They might start to get ideas and, and, agency and stuff! (That was me speaking, not Moore. He was just bemused and incredulous.) It was one of the first times I really looked at the media I consumed and thought about how messed-up the portrayal of sex really is. Then I saw This Film Is Not Yet Rated and about blew a gasket and marched to Hollywood to burn it down myself. So, I'm glad BSG was different.
This Film Is Not Yet Rated is really good and really, really frustrating. Wanting to burn shit down is the perfect response.
My god, the first time I saw that movie I wanted to light my hair on fire out of frustration.
You've seen it more than once? How did you survive?!
Ha, a couple of weeks ago I watched "The Good Wife" with my mom and there was a scene with Danny from Sports Night and Julianna Margulies (look I don't watch the show I don't know their names) having sex up against a wall and she has an orgasm and it's TOTALLY HOTT, and I was like "…this is on CBS?!" I don't know if times have changed or if they just managed to slip that one past the radar, but I'm glad more women are enjoying sex on TV.
SO MANY EMOTIONS! The Roslin/Adama shipper in me died and went to heaven, AND THEN WAS MURDERED BY THE LOVE TRIANGLE (parallelogram?) THAT IS STARBUCK/LEE/ANDERS/DEE EVEN THOUGH I WAS ALREADY DEAD. Are we twelve? WHY WOULD REVENGE MARRIAGE SEEM LIKE A GOOD IDEA? This is definitely one of the few times in my life I’ve gotten excited over a love triangle/shape/thing. I had to talk myself out of marathoning the rest of season 3 because I just want to know what happens to everyone’s marriages! AKSDJ;FAKJF;AJA;DFKJA
Can we just take a moment, though, to appreciate Hotdog? Bless you for trying to take on Starbuck and getting knocked the fuck out <3
Haha, forgot that Hotdog bit… bless him.
Oh god, Hotdog. What was he even thinking? I love him.
Also, I forgot to add that I loved Lee punching Kara in the face. She was so awful to him. I thought it was an amazingly honest portrayal of their relationship. And very brave to show it. I do not believe that men should hit women in a general sense, but between these two characters it was perfect.
Man I love this show so so so much.
I think the show handled the "man hits woman" aspect of this really well by showing all sorts of fights in the ring up to that point. We get Helo/Lee, Chief/Adama, Starbuck/Hot Dog, and Kat/someone. They do a good job of showing that the women can hold their own (or opt out, like Dee) and keep it from turning into a gender issue.
Yes exactly. So well done. I didn't find it offensive in the least. Given the history of Lee and Kara anything less would have been disingenuous. YMMV 🙂
Same here. It helps that Katee Sackhoff as Kara looks like she could go toe-to-toe with a guy and actually win. And yeah, I don't like violence against women but in this universe, between these two characters, it's really just about them.
Ack, sorry for the multiple posts. But I keep thinking of things. I remember thinking that the final hug between Lee and Kara was just a metaphorical fuck between them. And it was beautiful and heartbreaking and lovely.
Mark, BEST.SHOW. The.End.
and you are so not close to being frakkin prepared. Like NOT AT ALL.
Seriously, he should just stockpile a room full of boxes of tissue because he will need them – either to cry into or to shred from sheer nailbiting suspense, depending on which is applicable.
And he still won't be prepared. EVER.
I'm not entirely sure how I want to phrase what I'm about to say, but I'm going to try, and I ask forgiveness if it comes out wrong.
Perhaps because I grew up in a broken home, and saw the same in all of my aunts' relationships, but watching men and women physically fight each other tends to make me extremely uncomfortable. There have been a few notable exceptions to this, including on A:tLA where it's so obvious that everyone is on an equal ground; ex: Zuko and Azula can both fire bend, and to an extent, she is even more powerful than he is. I don't feel uncomfortable watching them fight because I know that whatever he dishes out, she could return, with interest.
Whether or not I can handle watching it has always depended on how a show depicts its female characters. I need to see that the woman is strong and just as eager for the fight as the man is–i.e. that it's not a man beating up a woman who is not physically able to fight back like my aunts. So all the props to BSG for avoiding hitting that particular button of mine. I never once thought, "This is a man and a woman fighting," during this episode. I just thought, "Oh, God, this fight is brutal, they are both hurting each other, can everyone just hug and get along?" And then, like you said, they did hug and suddenly I wanted nothing less. So awkward.
omg Helo beating up Lee, it's like the writers knew what would give me complete and utter joy. And then the episode got better from there! Ah!
I know it was a lot slower and more about the characters than furthering the plot, but I loved it anyway. The show kind of acknowledges that when Adama tells them that he let himself get to close and that he can't be lax anymore. The fight against the Cylons and for humanity's survival is more important than their relationships, but I like that BSG spends so much time on those relationships, messed up as they are. It shows what they're fighting for, and how they can screw up so badly.
Yeah, holy awkward. Lee and Starbuck deserve each other. I feel weird saying that because this isn't the first time that their anger and frustration with each other has led them to physical blows, which is wrong and unhealthy, but I pity anyone else who gets caught up in their mess. Poor Dee, especially. And the bit at the end where they say they missed each other is really sweet and fucked up at the same time. I don't know why I like them together, but I do.
I'm typing this and I don't think I'm making sense, but whatever. I loved this one. It made me shout "sucker punch!" at the screen. I was completely absorbed by "Unfinished Business," and it's the episode I most want to watch again.
I think my aversion to boxing comes from being forced to watch it as a child. The same goes for football and baseball. (But not professional wrestling??? Maybe I just loved looking at half-naked buff dudes. lol can you tell i am gay.)
lol, it's okay Mark, baseball and football are so damn boring to watch, and I never really got the appeal of boxing either, though it does have half-naked dudes. They're just not grappling as much. Plus, pro wrestling has costumes and storylines and absurd characters and all of that fun pageantry and ridiculousness.
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/2rr1box.gif">
How can you not love that?
Holy shit that gif. I like some sports but baseball and football are the worst to watch, I do not get how any game where play stops like every 30 seconds can be so popular.
One of the only sports I really like watching is tennis, and I think that's because it's fast paced. None of this play for two seconds and then they have to take a break so five minute commercial crap.
Yeah. I mean I played softball when I was a kid and that was fun, but watching these sports? No…
I think my big problem with boxing is that I can't stomach watching two people actually beat each other up. It's so senseless that I just feel nauseated instead of entertained. I felt that way in school too, whenever a fight broke out. Ugh and everyone else would rush out to watch it – could never understand that.
I like shows with fights in them, but it's totally different for me. For one, it's either choreographed or animated, so no one is really getting hurt. And I guess – in the shows that I watch anyway – there's usually a reason behind the fights, instead of just dumping two people into a ring for the sole purpose of having them beat the shit out of each other. Ugh, really can't get into that. I can watch WWE though, since it's more showy smoke and mirrors and guys in funny outfits trash talking – and serious injuries are accidents, not the goal.
Lol now I'm reminded of once when I was talking to a boy who was around five or six about WWE wrestling and he insisted that the fighting on it was ABSOLUTELY 100% REAL. I couldn't convince him otherwise, and I felt kind of bad about trying to shatter that dream anyway, so I just gave up.
Yeah, I think that's about it: the senselessness of it. I respect boxers for their strength and discipline, but I get no joy from watching it.
Wrestlers = Santa Claus. It's best that you let him believe, hehe.
It was just so funny to me, because really real wrestling is so different from the WWE stuff. From what I've seen, the majority of a real wrestling match is one person keeping their opponent pinned while the opponent squirms for a while and tries to get up. Not really as cool to watch as people getting beaned with folding chairs, I suppose.
Well, it is if you get a laugh from people with their heads shoved in awkward places, hehe.
I totally feel the same way about boxing. I like a good fight scene in a film or on TV but two people actually punching each other in the face, bleeding and passing out? No thanks.
My very important thoughts that have very little depth:
-You mentioned The Lion King. You know what's awesome? I'm at work reading your review (not very surprising, I do that everyday) but today is a day full of very boring data input so I'm playing movies in the background to keep myself entertained. Can you guess what movie I was listening to when reading this? Yes, that's right, The Lion King. Good movie.
-This was a great episode for letting me continue on with my fascination at how in shape all these actors are.
-Adama's porn-stache made a reappearance. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
-I'm glad they filled in the blanks of that missing year. That was bothering me a bit
-When did Starbuck get all those other tattoos?
-Roslin and Adama are high while talking to Gaeta and just talk about wanting to keep doing this. They are perfect.
The Lion King. Good movie.
Perfect movie to play while working. Actually, scratch that, just perfect movie all around. I went to see it at the cinema yesterday and it was so cool to be surrounded by 20+ year olds all singing along to Hakuna Matata. And I'm currently listening to the soundtrack right now!
When did Starbuck get all those other tattoos?
The text on her right arm, technically it's been there the whole time as it's one of Katee Sackhoff's. Intitially they tried to hide it but clearly gave up somewhere along the way. The pyramid thing on her shoulder was added somewhere after The Farm (there's a bandage in that spot during that episode). It's covering up Katee's tattoo of a crucifix, which doesn't make sense in the context of the show hence the cover-ups.
Yes this is a random burst of trivia.
I would recommend going to televisionwithoutpity.com and reading Jacob’s old review of this episode. It’s beautiful. He really gets these characters and why they act so incredibly stupidly all the time.
Oh, Jacob. His recaps were like minor works of art, really.
I still go back and reread the "Flight of the Phoenix" and "Pegasus" ones now and then. So good.
I was particularly fond of how he nicknamed pilots "the Twins".
NOT so fond of his hate-on for Cally, though. It's like if the girl dared to show her face during a scene, forget about speak, he'd rip on her. Gb gur cbvag jurer ur'f rira ubeevoyr nobhg ure qrngu! Naq evcf ba ure NSGRE ure qrngu orpnhfr ure uhfonaq qnerq gb trg znq nobhg vg naq xvyyrq ure zheqrere!
[youtube FYwpt092O7U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYwpt092O7U youtube]
My absolute favourite piece of music from BSG. It's beautiful.
I managed to completely forget Violence and Variations was in this episode. It's a gorgeous piece.
I can't pick. It's like picking your favorite child or niece or nephew. I can't do it.
Well it was a tough choice between this and Gur Urneg bs gur Fha. Gur raqvat vf unve envfvat fghss.
God, it really is, isn't it? Every time I think I have it narrowed down, another song comes up and I'm all "NO THAT'S IT!"
So far, it's between this and "Prelude To War."
This one was my hands-down favorite of the episode, but really all of the music was amazing. It's a huge part of why I enjoyed this one so much.Thanks for posting it.
I still can't handle listening to it all the way through, it makes me SAD and ALL THE TEARS.
My poor heart after this episode, it was bashed up even worse than Lee and Kara's faces at the end.
Off topic but not really because it's mentioned in your review—But The Lion King is still in the top three at the box office—and it beat a few new opening weekends for other movies and this one is seventeen years old, which goes to show how amazing a movie it is.
Now off to actually catch up with season three (only on Exodus)—haha glad I like spoiling myself.
I'm so torn because I would love to go see the Lion King in the theaters (I never got to as a kid) but I really don't want to see it in 3-D!
Oh my god some of those scenes though would be fantastic in 3D, particularly the wildebeest scene. The Lion King is the first movie I remember seeing as a kid in theaters when I was four, and I definitely want to go see it but it's a matter of finding the time for me.
Get the handy 2d glasses for 3d movies!
http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-pick/2d-glasses…
Isn't it showing in 2d, too? It was at my nearest theater.
Nope, I just checked this after reading NB2000's comment below. Unfortunately 3D gives everyone I go to see movies with besides me a headache. I didn't really want to go alone, because part of the fun of going to the theater is the group experience.
Yeah, especially when you want to belt out the songs. I'm sorry. 🙁
oh god I AM SEEING IT THIS WEEKEND because WHY NOT
Totally going to try and find a free afternoon to see it next week! I wasn't going to bother until I checked and saw my cinema is doing a 2D screening as well.
"Why did I think that? It got even more awkward. Starbuck LEFT LEE OUT IN THAT FIELD BY HIMSELF. What if like…a wildebeest came out of nowhere and ate him or something?? Have you not seen The Lion King? Those fuckers come out of nothing to fuck you up."
UNUNUNUNUN, guvf vf fb vebavp va yvtug bs gur frevrf svanyr. V'z abj pbaivaprq gung gur ernfba gur pbybavfgf unq ab rssrpg ba uhznavgl naq nyy qvrq bss vf orpnhfr jvyqrornfgf xvyy gurz nyy. Arire zvaq gur fnoer-gbbgurq gvtref, vg jnf qrsvavgryl n fgnzcrqr bs natel jvyqrornfgf.
Okay, "ununununun" looks really, really strange.
What's really strange is how much rot13 I'm able to read without putting it through the translator first! ununununun
ADAMA AND ROSLIN GOT HIGH TOGETHER. AND ARE CURLED UP TALKING ABOUT HOW NICE THEIR LIVES ARE. EVERYTHING IS BEAUTIFUL AND NOTHING HURTS.
In my own personal head canon they also slept together that night. Complete and maybe improbable speculation, but it is such a nice thought.
I love this episode. I love this episode so hard.
I hear what all of you are saying about unending awkwardness, but I just don't feel it. Kara and Lee in this episode are not so much about romantic love as about connection. They don't end with "I love you;" they end with "I missed you." THAT'S what we've been missing lately. Not them kissing, but them on the same side, fighting together, connected. I don't care who they're each frakking as long as they're cool with each other, watching each other's backs. Do we have to call it OTL, and crap on it? Aren't there a million kinds of love?
Oh, and uh [blush], I ship Adama/Roslin so hard that I squealed through most of this episode, and had to rewind it to actually hear the dialogue. So yah, I loves this one.
I love this episode too, and I don't feel the awkwardness either.
Pain, a million times yes, heartbreak like you wouldn't believe, but awkwardness? No. And the simple truth of Lee and Kara is exactly what they said – they miss each other. The romantic feelings haven't gone away, far from it, but I thought what BSG showed us from the beginning with those two is that they love each other in so many ways – as friends, as almost-siblings (since they're both PapAdama's de facto children), as colleagues, as everything. When Kara left Lee to marry Sam, she didn't just lose him as a possible lover – she lost everything else they were to each other.
I don't care who they're each frakking as long as they're cool with each other, watching each other's backs.
Same here. *sigh*
And it's a minority opinion around these parts, but I think what this ep showed us was that she's so terrified of loving and possibly losing him that she'd rather throw away everything they were to each other deliberately than risk her heart. In a twisted way, it's like she keeps at least that much control over what happens, even if it's engineered for her own misery and she hurts herself as much as she hurts him.
And oh my heart, ADAMA AND ROSLIN GETTING STONED. ALL THE SQUEEEEEE IN THE WORLD CANNOT EXPRESS HOW AWESOME THIS IS.
I think what this ep showed us was that she's so terrified of loving and possibly losing him that she'd rather throw away everything they were to each other deliberately than risk her heart. In a twisted way, it's like she keeps at least that much control over what happens, even if it's engineered for her own misery and she hurts herself as much as she hurts him.
That's exactly how I read it, and thank you for wording it so succinctly and perfectly! Kara is afraid of intimacy and vulnerability. How do you protect yourself if you're like that? Control, control, control, until you're walled behind your fears, but at least you are controlling it, so it's okay, and you don't mind because the control keeps you safe. Not that I'm speaking from experience.
I actually was speaking from personal experience – I cut and ran from someone I really liked a lot – basically, I sabotaged things because I was afraid he'd get close enough to figure out that I wasn't good enough for him. It was years ago, and we don't really talk anymore.
Granted, I did it in the grip of what I now realize was depression, he wasn't – thank goodness – my best friend or the love of my life, and I didn't run off and marry anyone else, but I think I understand some part of what went through Kara's mind that morning. I wouldn't advocate this particular way of getting inside her head, though.
I'm speaking from experience, too. I get Kara Thrace, and I wish I didn't.
I'm sorry you went through that rough time, and I hope you're doing better these days. 🙂
^ which is why it hurts my soul when I see people calling her names. She is a badass, but there's so much pain behind the facade of Starbuck, how can anyone not see it?
Thank you for your concern :).
No one seems to have mentioned it yet, but oh gods the expression on Lee's face when he hears about Kara's marriage.
<img src="http://www.frak-that.com/309/images/309_cap751.jpg" width="400" height="225">
It's too painful for me to watch again – I never, ever want to see anyone look that devastated and I'm not sure my heart is done breaking yet. (and Jamie Bamber, how I love you for making me hurt this much).
OMG. I was so thinking of that when I made my first comment. I was heartbroken for Lee. And Jamie Bamber was just brilliant here.
No one seems to have mentioned it yet, but oh gods the expression on Lee’s face when he hears about Kara’s marriage.
Yes, they did something that was morally wrong last night, but if the aftermath is this kind of pain, it’s an awful, awful price to pay. (and Jamie Bamber, how I love you for making me hurt this much).
It’s too painful for me to watch again – I never, ever want to see anyone look that devastated and I’m not sure my heart is done breaking yet.
I love this ep. I love how it jerks my heart around. Watching the Colonials party like they haven't partied since before the war, with so much joy and hope and excitement, makes me grin and then I remember how it all ended up for them and I want to cry. Watching Adama and Roslin is such a huge treat. Those mofos have chemistry like nobody else in the universe OMG ADORABLE SPACE PARENTS BAKED OUT OF THEIR MINDS excuse me I am good for nothing while I squeal here.
I think this ep does a pretty good job of making us feel like cheating, or wanting to cheat, isn't just glamorous sexytimes ~secret passion~ but actively hurts the other people in the relationship(s). It doesn't allow us to get wrapped up in Lee and Kara's ~true love~ but keeps reminding us that it involves really stupid bad decisions being made that are going to have larger repercussions.
I love Dualla, and I get the feeling that she's a fiercely loyal lion of a spouse who would fight to the death for Lee and for their relationship as long as he's true to her, but she won't take being run around on. I've known people like that — if you have them, you have ALL of them, but they're not doormats, they're aware of what they bring to the table, and they won't stick around and pour out their strength for someone who's not also putting their all on the line. Messing up a relationship with that kind of person is just a hideous thing to watch Lee do.
That sex scene is all kinds of hotness and I definitely took notice of how it specifically showed Kara enjoying sex. When I think of it, it might be the most explicit instance, but other sex scenes so far have also kind of quietly made it equally about the ladies participating.
I remember Mark, or somebody, saying around the time of the one-year jump at the end of S2, "Everybody got married??" and I like that this ep shows how it happened. It wasn't just that everyone ~naturally~ got married because that's what you do when your narrative skips forward a year, but the couples representing about half of the newlyweds got married for reasons that were not only interconnected but, you know, fucked up.
I think this ep does a pretty good job of making us feel like cheating, or wanting to cheat, isn't just glamorous sexytimes ~secret passion~ but actively hurts the other people in the relationship(s). It doesn't allow us to get wrapped up in Lee and Kara's ~true love~ but keeps reminding us that it involves really stupid bad decisions being made that are going to have larger repercussions.
I agree. And that's why i don't think this episode is all "Lee/Kara OTP" like some people are saying it is, because throughout the WHOLE show, they obviously make awful decisions about romance and about each other, and this is just more of that.
Drug induced Roslin/Adama is now my OTP. Is that bad?
This episode is basically just Adama/Roslin and poor, sweet Dee for me. Definitely up there in my favourites but I find it so hard to watch the Lee/Kara stuff and often just skip it.
CAN I JUST. WITH THE ROSLIN AND THE ADAMA AND HER GIVING HIM TIPS WITH HIS BOXING AND FKLDSJHKLFGHKJSDFLD. TWO FLAWED PEOPLE SOMEHOW MAKE A FLAWLESS SHIP. I REFUSE TO HAVE ANYONE TELL ME TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT, EVER AGAIN.
This is probably the most divisive episode of the series, people either find it boring and soapy or they love the hell out of it. I love the hell out of it. Possibly my favourite stand-alone episode of them all.
Mine too. So much pain and misery, but so, so amazing.
Hmm… yep, this episode definitely exists and stuff.
Since no one posted this ….BEAR MCCREARY YOU ARE GENIUS AND RULE THEM ALL. FOREVER.
[youtube KOAHva8TF_M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOAHva8TF_M youtube]
In the interests of completion, and because it's awesome…
[youtube oozfytWWbyA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oozfytWWbyA&feature=related youtube]
What is it with the music in this episode?? It's just all fantastic!
You will answer my question, right Mark?
My thoughts on this episode:
– I’m on team flashback. The editing was incredibly well done, especially the transitions from present to past.
– Wow, there was a time when things were happy on New Caprica? Who knew? I loved the celebrations, especially the dancing. I'm a sucker for rustic/rural dancing because I think it really shows that there is a culture there, that all the people of the colonies share… and hell, dancing is just FUN.
– Embarrassing confession: on my first watch, I didn’t realize what it was the Adama and Roslin were smoking, so I was terribly confused by their behavior. As adorable and ship-y as it was, it seemed out of character to be that open with each other. It was only watching the extended version that I figured out- duh! They’re stoned!
– I don’t have much to say on the Kara and Lee front, I think everybody said it already. I feel terrible for Anders and Dee, and knowing there’s no way to resolve this without somebody getting hurt. 🙁 I have to say, though, that the scene with them yelling to the sky about how much they love each other could have been done SO BADLY. Like, in any other context, I would have been rolling my eyes at the cheesiness of it. But for some reason, because of the writing or the acting or the way it was shot or some combination of those things, I loved it.
– I’m thinking this episode came about in part so RDM could see how much fake blood the audience could stomach. Yeesh. I’m not a boxing fan by any means, but from what I’ve seen it, it doesn’t usually end with blood streaming down the participants cheeks and out of their mouths.
My heart at the end of this episode, only with a lot more bruises:
I don't see any picture.
I think Apollo/Starbuck shippers are thin on the ground here, but if there are any of you who have finished watching the series and find yourselves bereft, come on over here – http://no-takebacks.livejournal.com .
It's a nice friendly shipper comm with lots of discussion and creative stuff (fanfic! videos!) for anyone who feels a bit bruised. Though it started out as a BSG rewatch comm, so it does have spoilers all the way to the end.
Before I even read the review, I just want to say, the extended cut of this is my favorite episode of BSG, and in my top 8 favorite episodes of television ever, only behind some Buffy, Firefly, Angel, and Veronica Mars eps.
Which is odd, because, on a whole, I think seasons 1 and 2 are a lot stronger than 3 and 4… But my favorite episode is in season 3, and my favorite stretch of episodes, with no spoiler, comes early in season 4.5
Read your review now. You did not love it ENOUGH. And some of the comments here didn't love it at all. You are all wrong. BESTEST EPISODE.
I LOVE IT TOO!! Even though it leaves my heart so beaten.
And yeah, it did not get enough love here.
It's my favourite episode 🙂
Adding to the pile of love for this episode.
Also shallow detail, but I LOVE Kara's hair here – both in the present-day and in the flashbacks.
Especially in the flashbacks, it's just long enough to be really pretty and short enough to still have some swing and sass. (great job, Katee's hair and makeup people! She's so radiant, it's hard not to wonder why everyone in the known universe is not in love with her.)
I have a weird relationship to this episode. I love it, mostly because I love the hell out of Starbuck. But I don't really like all the Kara/Lee stuff, because I love Anders. (Although I think the first time through, I shipped Lee/Kara mildly. This show is so confusing.)
But the reason I love this episode is because the first visuals I ever saw of BSG were from a Kara-centric fanvid that focused on this episode. So my image of Starbuck is always based in these amazing visuals of her boxing, looking hot and tough and laughing and being wounded, and…I simply adore her, and pretty much have since I saw that vid.
Spoiler warning: The vid is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1bRQ8SRyZo&no… but it contains spoilers for future episodes, possibly the rest of the series. (I have a horrible memory and can't remember when anything happens.)
Wow, I did NOT expect this episode to hit me so hard. I was on the verge of tears from the moment they kissed in the flashback, and by the end I just lost it. I just love them so muhuhuhuhuch
"Glad to be of service." Aw, poor Anders. God, I ship them so hard. When we first meet Anders it's like, okay here's this hott sports star guy slash resistance leader, but is he worthy of our Starbuck? And then he turns out to be super awesome. And I just want Starbuck to be able to open up and love SOMEBODY at ALL and not have the show keep killing her chances at happiness with TRAGEDY and AWFUL THINGS. But this is Battlestar Galactica and they LOVE TO CRUSH OUR DREAMS.
Hee hee, the fighting Agathons. I'd bet on Helo and Sharon any day.
Does Starbuck keep her wedding ring on her dog-tag chain? That is both convenient and DEEPLY SYMBOLIC, both because of her giving her dog-tags to Anders as a promise (aw) and her taking it off now to fight Lee (aw…kward).
I don't really know how to feel about these two anymore. I just want Starbuck to be happy, dammit. I want her to feel like she is worthy of love, and able to love in return.
Flashbacks: OMG Gaeta before Baltar broke his heart! Tigh with two eyes! Ellen!! Laura and Bill getting high!! (When they're like "I didn't think he'd ever leave," was anyone reminded of Tvyrf naq Wblpr va "Onaq Pnaql"?) Starbuck being cute and happy and smiley and making sarcastic remarks! WHY DID IT ALL HAVE TO BE TERRIBLE.
Damn, now I really want to go contra dancing.
Man, Adama just can't resist the opportunity for a speech, even when he's bleeding from his mouth hole.
Yrr naq Xnen trggvat gbtrgure jura gurl'er obgu jvgu bgure crbcyr erzvaqf zr bs nabgure cnvevat V ernyyl yvxrq bapr, Jvyybj naq Knaqre. V fdhrnyrq bhg ybhq jura gurl xvffrq, ohg gura bs pbhefr gurl jrer obgu nggnpurq naq vg nyy jrag gb fuvg naq gung jnf gur raq bs gung cnvevat. Juvpu vf xvaq bs ubj vg unccraf va erny yvsr. Orpnhfr lbh pna'g onfr n eryngvbafuvc ba orgenlny naq gura rkcrpg rirelguvat gb tb jryy.
"We accept it." Oh, Lee. You should know better. Him shouting her name to the skies just breaks my heart. Lee breaks my heart in general. He's so idealistic and naive and Starbuck is so scared and she can't give herself fully to someone the way Lee can and it's so sad. I've been Lee, and I've been Starbuck, and I just can't. Oh my heart.
And at the end I don't even think it's about just their romantic relationship anymore, it's just about them being friends, and family, and loving each other, and hating that things have come between them for so long. "I missed you." "I missed you too." BAWLING over here.
Now my roommate just came home and was like "are you okay?" and I was like SHUT UP I AM NOT CRYING OVER BATTLESTAR GALACTICA
Oh, poor bb (I am terrified to watch UB again because it will leave me devastated for the next several DAYS).
If it’s any consolation, I think the ring on the dog tag wasn’t Kara’s wedding ring, it’s the ring she wore on her thumb in the first two seasons – Zak’s ring. She and Anders got wedding tattoos, so I guess the need for a ring goes out the window.
I’ve been Lee, and I’ve been Starbuck, and I just can’t.
I’ve been Kara, which is part of why watching this HURTS so badly and why I can’t hate our girl despite the awful thing she did. To be Lee, though…..I just can’t. There’s too much hate on him, and too little sympathy here.
grandiosa sitismos mi ciria te damorejo calpafacu pronstaz. antra te constra ssimpos nos ideliar o capomiv entem colac bien.