In the tenth episode of the second season of Battlestar Galactica, the fleet makes a shocking discovery and I don’t want to type anything more because SPOILERS and seriously, just read the review.
(For the sake of this all, I watched the hour-long extended edition of this particular available, so I will reference scenes from that. Additionally, if you’re not watching the show and are still reading these, there’s a lot of talk about rape here, so trigger warning for that, too!)
WHAT. WHAT. WHAT DID I WATCH.
i’m like GO GET THOSE RESISTANCE FIGHTERS but Roslin and Adama are all 241 JUMPS NO THANK YOU and Starbuck’s heart is crushed because Anders is still not around to be all badass and hot and then HOLY SHIT ANOTHER CYLON SHIP god why can’t this ship get a break. And then WHAT IT IS ANOTHER BATTLESTAR HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE. There are more colonists? THERE ARE MORE? THERE’S ANOTHER BATTLESTAR? WHERE IS THE SPIN-OFF SHOW?
And then I get all excited by this prospect and approximately a few minutes later EVERYTHING IS WRONG. THIS IS ALL WRONG. WHY DOES THIS FEEL LIKE A TRAP. Why do I feel awful about all of this? Who is Admiral Cain? Oh god, when she and her officers step off that ship….I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO PUKE FROM ANTICIPATION. And this is child’s play to the next fifty minutes of pure hell.
See, I am trying to write coherent thoughts about “Pegasus,” but it’s just not possible. It’s just not something I can do. Because ADMIRAL CAIN AND HER CREW MAKE ME SO GODDAMN ANGRY. I know I am getting ahead of myself, but there has been no episode yet that has stirred in me such horrific emotions ALL AT THE SAME TIME. The thing is…thinking back to all of those moments with Admiral Cain before the shit hits the fan, you could tell she was hiding something beneath the surface. She was paying all the right respects, stating her intentions outright, and doing what she could to placate others with the absolute minimum needed. Even when she is telling Roslin and Adama about how she and her ship came to escape the Cylons, I believed her, but only to the extent of knowing she was merely leaving something out.
So allow her XO, Colonel Fisk, to provide one of those details: SHE SHOT HER PREVIOUS XO ON THE SPOT WHEN HE DISOBEYED ONE OF HER COMMANDS. Oh, but it’s a joke. Ha ha ha ha…..ha! Totally good joke to tell. That’s always hilarious, you know, talk of murdering someone for disagreeing with you.
Oh, but that is just the start. i could never have known how bad this would get. Despite that I had a father in the military, I know SHIT about rank, so I was genuinely shocked that Cain very rapidly assumed authority over Adama, despite that it makes LOTS OF LOGICAL SENSE AND SUCH. My reaction was the same as Roslin’s: shock, and then extreme discomfort at the idea, even if Cain could easily prove to be just as good a leader as Adama. (LOL LOL LOL IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN). It was a change, and a sudden one. It would take time to get used to, but there wasn’t any choice about it. Cain was in charge, and everyone would have to do things a little differently.
Understatement of the century. What still surprises me, even in hindsight, is how remarkably fast “Pegasus” goes from exciting to utter chaos. It takes place in one scene, when Cain orders the reassignment of a huge batch of Adama’s crew, proving that she had no intentions of honoring Adama’s role. And let’s just step outside the vacuum of this episode for a second: The world has basically ended, there are just under 50,000 humans left anywhere in all universes ever, and Cain’s priority is to pull rank and exact her form of military rule over the entire fleet. I understand that there is a part of her that certainly wants to keep everyone alive, and she’s also one who is more into putting the Cylons on the offensive than those on the Galactica. I get it. But part of me can’t help but feel that this is RIDICULOUSLY UNNECESSARY. I know that it’s unfair to me, as a viewer, because I enjoy these characters so much, but Cain is more interested in getting everyone to follow her rules than to work with what is already effective. Plus, again, it’s the end of the world. The apocalypse happened. Do you really need to cling to the same military culture at this point?
So what “Pegasus” becomes for me is one endless moment of panic and terror after another. Things get worse in a way that feels like an endless spiral to disorder. In fact, it’s as if the writers thought, “Hey, what’s a worse reveal than the one we just put in there? Oh, she shot her XO when he defied a command? Let’s demote Lee. Oh, and let’s make sure Starbuck isn’t on this mission. Oh, and let’s reveal that the Pegasus is also holding a prisoner of war, and let’s also reveal that it’s Six, and let’s also reveal that she was horrifically beaten and tortured, and oh, don’t forget to have a group of soldiers brag to Tyrol and Help that they repeatedly raped her.
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The obvious parallel drawn here is how rape is used in combat as a war technique and, being an American, it wasn’t hard for me to think about stories of men of our military raping their fellow women soldiers (http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3848/) or the vicious rape, abuse, and torture of prisoners in Abu Ghraib (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html) or the rape of Iraqi women by occupation forces or…I sort of had to stop looking this stuff up to provide any context. Of course, I look at this from a western lens, and rape is not something specific to the US, or to war, or to men, or to anything, really.
I feel it’s too obvious to state it at this point, but I suppose it’s a good starting point. The scene that introduces this concept is so uncomfortable because the Pegasus crew is so casual about their rape of their version of Six AND because they’re talking about doing the same to the woman that both Tyrol and Helo love. It’s hard to talk about such an unbearable plot turn because it’s so real for so many people, and “complimenting” a rape plot sounds fucking awful, but I am satisfied that rape is not a punchline here, that it is so obviously framed as one of the most heinous acts you can perpetrate on any person, EVEN IF it is the rape of someone who has done terrible things. There is no justification of it and there is no glorification of it, and the actions of Tyrol and Helo are presented as noble acts, Cally is shown to be disgusted by the very conversation (which probably triggers her memory of “Bastille Day”) and it’s even shown how rape is both a personal and a systemic problem, since these men violate consent and the military culture that Cain has created enables them to do so and get away with it.
I guess it’s similar to how I felt during “Objects in Space” when I was watching Firefly, about how even if it’s presented as being negative, it still makes me feel awful. That being said, at least it is not making me feel terrible because the show included this casually, without any sort of internal criticism of the act, or because it was a the end result of a joke. I can say that much, and it’s sort of all that I can think of saying for a scene like this. It’s not sugarcoated, and when we see the results of Cain’s personal philosophy during the reveal of Pegasus Six, it’s not made to look ridiculous or silly.
Which brings me to the scene where Baltar finally confronts the Pegasus version of Six. I think Baltar’s the most fascinatingly complex character on this whole show, and his moment alone with Six not only proves that, but shows us just how talented Tricia Helfer and James Callis are. The subtext of confronting a version of the woman in your head is powerful enough, but it’s here that Baltar does not manipulate or lie to get what he wants. More than any character on the Galactica, he fully accepts that the humanoid Cylons are their own beings and deserve to be treated so, and he has not one hesitation or act of reluctance when he speaks so openly to Six. It’s heartbreaking while also being remarkably touching for what it is. Baltar is complicated, and his morals seem to switch to whatever suits him best, but what he vocalizes to this woman is that what was done to her was wrong, and that there are no exceptions to that. In a way, it’s almost like a love letter to Six as well, as if the sight of a copy of her has evoked all the memories of what she has done to help him. I think it’s the best monologue in the show up to this point, and perhaps the most perfectly executed scene.
And then it all goes to hell. Tyrol and Helo, intent on saving Sharon from being raped, accost the soldiers and guards attacking her. In the process, Tyrol kills Lietenant Thorne. One of the ongoing themes of “Pegasus” is the fact that Cain constantly uses Adama’s own log against him. It’s an interesting way to call back to previous episodes in a way that isn’t ham-fisted or forced, and I really enjoy that. History is important, but when it’s stripped of context, it can be used to modify reality in order to support a specific point. In this case, it’s obvious to Cain why Tyrol and Helo have committed an unspeakable crime, and it’s totally within reason that there’s not one criticism on the part of anyone on the Pegasus for the rape and attempted rape of prisoners. Of course, we know the truth, and we know why this is all a load of horse poo.
And then the other shoe drops. Tyrol and Helo have had their trial in the matter of a few hours, and it’s hinted that Cain herself just handed down the verdict herself. They will be executed. For killing a man who was about to rape someone.
OH YOU DID NOT FUCKING GO THERE, CAIN. My hatred for you has eclipsed that of the burning of a thousand dying suns. You’re going to execute these men without a trial for something that is arguably quite honorable? THEN ALLOW ME TO HEAP YOU WITH SCORN AND HATRED EVEN THOUGH I THINK YOU ARE FIERCE AND KIND OF AWESOME IF YOU WEREN’T SUCH A SHITBAG. I mean right. She is like a more vicious version of Starbuck, so I kind of like her character? I just don’t like what she does.
And honestly, I only found out after the fact that season two was split in half and that as the two ships, Pegasus and Galactica, faced off for a possible attack after Adama decides he wants to get Tyrol and Helo back, IT ENDED ON A CLIFFHANGER. Four months. Y’all had to wait four months, ALLOW ME TO WAIT A FEW HOURS.
Right now, it totally rules to be me. THERE I SAID IT.
My Thoughts on This Episode on September 23, 2005
Good sweet mother of crap, I don't even know what to say. This is one of those episodes that's hard to form an opinion about because it makes you so angry, not at the show, but at the things happening on the show. Or maybe at the show for letting these things happen on the show.
I mean, I like that they don't waste any time getting right to the Pegasus. Although the music in the teaser was very un-McCreary-like, and the music in the first scene was too chant-y (actually, the chantiness was too much throughout the episode…McCreary's usually good about underscoring things, but chanting is like a first-class ticket to overscoring with extra mojo).
And for about twenty minutes or so, things seem okay. It still seems fishy for the Pegasus to have found them (and for them to have survived at all: they just jumped away at the first sign of trouble? HOW ABOUT DEFENDING THE FUCKING HUMAN RACE, YOU ASSHOLES?!). But it's nice to have more human beings in the population, and more defenses against the Cylons, and Cain says she won't step on any toes or anything.
EXCEPT SHE'S A LYING MONSTER FROM HELL.
I was wondering, see, because one of the things I like about BSG is the strong female characters like Roslin and Starbuck, so I thought, wow, cool, they made the admiral of the fleet a woman. But she's a woman the audience is made to hate. So. I don't know.
Quick note about Baltar and Six: Six had a reflection! I guess in Baltar's head, she would, but it was still jarring. And man, Broken Six was…very broken. Almost unrecognizable, especially because I expected it to be Boomer, so I could say, "What, is the Boomer model specially designed for having babies and being captured?" I thought it was interesting that Baltar finally admitted that he loves Six, despite his "you're not my fancy" remark a few episodes ago.
I soon became annoyed with the fact that it seemed EVERYONE ON THE PEGASUS SUCKED LIKE WHOA. "Hey, it is totally fun to joke about gang rape!" "Hey, it is totally cool to shoot officers in front of people!" "Hey, it is totally sweet to fuck with Adama's son and surrogate daughter!" Usually, this show is all about moral ambiguity, but these characters were painted as eeeeeeeevil with brushstrokes as wide as the Halliburton profit margins. Everyone keeps bringing up Abu Ghraib and the fact that there are real military officials who act like this, and I…people suck.
When the big Graphic Content and Mature Subject Matter warning came up, I was all, "Yay, cool!" Little did I know. Because holy crap, because A) you're going to rape the prisoner, B) you're going to rape the pregnant prisoner, and C) you're going to rape her from behind. Thank the gods Helo and Tyrol got there in time. The question of the day is, though, is it wrong to rape a robot? We don't stop people from having sex with their toasters, mostly because they generally figure out the pitfalls all by themselves. The crew of the Pegasus doesn't see them as people, which is odd because they use all the same tactics they would use if they were people, you know? I mean, that seems to be the catch-22 in their logic: rape is an acceptable form of torture for humans, so we will use it on the robots, because it is okay to rape robots since they are not human.
FAIR TRIAL MY ASS. I hate this show for making me believe that they will, at any time, kill off characters. I feared for Helo's and Tyrol's lives, but I fear less so now. If they were going to kill either or both of them off, they would have done it now for the shock value. I mean, it would just be mean to make us wait till January and then kill them, right? BUT YOU ARE NOT KILLING TYROL OMG. Or Helo, I guess I like him more now.
Also, what the fuck is up with Billy? They give him one random, pointless appearance an episode now?
Snagged this from TWoP: And will every finale end with Starbuck sent off on an un-official solo mission? I'm just saying.
Go Adama go. Galactica vs. Pegasus. Alert fighers vs. alert fighters. Does this count as a civil war?
Just sit back and watch, Cylons. We're perfectly capable of destroying ourselves.
I actually really like the opening music 'Pegasus' exactly because it's so different to everything we've heard so far so I think it fits this strange new ship we know nothing about and adds an element of what's going on?
[youtube JculidrJIbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JculidrJIbI youtube]
I agree, I liked it because it was so different. It helped create an unsettling vibe for the episode. Besides, I got more of a weird 90s impression from it, not a chanty one, haha. Maybe it wasn't as seamless as the music (minus tin whistle) usually is, but it worked.
I haven't seen the episode since it aired, so I don't remember what the music was like, but…that was the Pegasus theme?? It's a mellow, languid tune that makes me feel like we're just chilling on a beach with our margaritas or whatever.
WAY TO FAKE US OUT, BEAR.
Ahhh I love this piece so much. It just reminds me of Apollo's line – "It's like a dream…"
I soon became annoyed with the fact that it seemed EVERYONE ON THE PEGASUS SUCKED LIKE WHOA
Yeah, I think it all goes back to what the Pegasus CAG said – "It's Admiral Cain's philosophy, which means it's your philosophy now."
I imagine she isn't the type to tolerate anyone disagreeing with her. In that kind of insular environment, her word is law, and I think the combination of respect and fear that her crew have for her goes a long way to explaining their behaviour. They've been conditioned to obey orders from a superior officer, and with no-one else to look to, they accept her word as gospel. I think if everyone around you has a certain view, it's easy to start believing it yourself, especially if voicing any doubts is likely to get you shot in front of everyone.
That being said, it by no means excuses their behaviour, but I can see why it might happen. They've simply had no-one speaking for the other side, as it were. That's why the partnership between Roslin and Adama is so effective – they argue with each other and they're forced to compromise and see things from a different perspective. They may not get things done as efficiently, but they get them done right.
Yup, this. As the TWoP recapper said (and I love his recap of this episode; I reread it from time to time), imagine the show we've been watching to this point without Roslin and the fleet and Adama and Helo and Starbuck and Chief. That's what Pegasus has been dealing with. They've been stuck in apocalypse-survivor mode for so long, with no hope except a glorious death that takes out the enemies that killed their entire civilization. That's awful, and it's truth, and I love this episode more than almost any other in the entire series.
Is it Jacob? The recapper I mean. I used to love him, and I read his recaps of BSG and Gossip Girl (shut up) religiously, but then I realized he was kind of mean and ableist a lot of the time and I stopped liking him as much. I remember being really impressed by his earlier stuff, though.
Hey, I like Gossip Girl too! At least the first 2 seasons, after that I'm not so sure …
Ableist as in "Discrimination in favor of the able-bodied"? (I'm not English)
Do you have examples (for both)? I'm interested, because I still like him, but there are like hundreds of un-touched recaps for me so I usually just check on what he wrote about a particular scene or when I'm in that mood.
Yes, that's ableism. Here's an introductory post on the subject if you'd like to read more.
(Shows about teenagers always seem to suffer when they get out of high school, don't they?)
Let's see, well, I started following Jacob's twitter, and he said some things there that rankled me. Like how "shippers" are "retarded," I think that was the tweet that made me stop following him for good. You can see it in his recaps too, though. I know a lot of people were upset that he referred to Van Gogh's "bipolar bullshit" in a Doctor Who recaplet. I haven't read his recaps in forever so I'm having trouble thinking of more examples. Anyone else?
He uses gendered language to complain about Sookie, for one, in the True Blood recaps, which is when I checked out for good. (I once got into an internet argument with him about women's representation in media, so I was already primed for the checkout, I guess.) Haven't followed his Twitter in years, and now I'm glad!
Yes, it's Jacob, and I used to love him until I didn't for the reasons you cite. (OMG WE ARE THE SAME PERSON AGAIN.) His early stuff, when he just started on BSG and on DW, were fantastic. Oh, and Farscape! Those were good recaps, too. They make me cry.
I remember liking some of the stuff in his Gossip Girl recaps about love and relationships, and how if you really love someone you just do it, you don't need to stand up on a table and yell it out to everyone, because that's just a performance and has nothing to do with your actual love for this person. I think I have some quotes written down somewhere, actually. Ah yes:
Where the fuck did we, as a people, get the idea that climbing up on the coffee cart and declaring our undying love for people was a good idea? It's the stupidest, most solipsistic thing I can think of. I mean, romantic gestures are one thing, but if you're trying to answer a complicated question like this, I can't think of anything more pointless. If you honestly don't know how somebody feels about you, take a moment to remember that actually you totally do, and proceed accordingly. There's nothing grosser to me than taking something as beautiful and private as love and turning it into performance like that. "Until just this second, my feelings for you were actually about you, but watch! Boom, now they're all about me! Look at me, everybody! I'm going to publicly shame the object of my affection! It's a sign of respect!" Anything you get out of this transaction, you could have gotten to begin with by being straightforward.
The best part of his Gossip Girl recaps is how they made the show seem way deeper and more important than a show about teenagers sleeping with each other.
TRUTH TRUTH AND MORE TRUTH.
His BSG recaps? His Gossip Girl recaps? Things of beauty. His early Doctor Who recaps, before he decided he didn't like the show and would shit on it endlessly? Gorgeous. His AI recaps where he thinks he's the Most Clever Thing Ever and that means he can insult women, fat people, and disabled people? (I've never even tried his True Blood recaps.) Not worth the paper they are printed on.
I was wondering, see, because one of the things I like about BSG is the strong female characters like Roslin and Starbuck, so I thought, wow, cool, they made the admiral of the fleet a woman. But she's a woman the audience is made to hate. So. I don't know.
Yeah, I agree with this. Especially since fur gheaf bhg gb or tnl yngre, evtug?
I soon became annoyed with the fact that it seemed EVERYONE ON THE PEGASUS SUCKED LIKE WHOA. "Hey, it is totally fun to joke about gang rape!" "Hey, it is totally cool to shoot officers in front of people!" "Hey, it is totally sweet to fuck with Adama's son and surrogate daughter!" Usually, this show is all about moral ambiguity, but these characters were painted as eeeeeeeevil with brushstrokes as wide as the Halliburton profit margins.
Heh. I agree that people on Pegasus were a little too comically evil. Well, the XO wasn't. You could kind of tell he was doing the best he could in a really awful situation. And Chief's counterpart seemed like a nice guy–it wasn't his fault he was sent to take over for Chief. But it would have been nice to see some genuine compassion from SOMEONE on Pegasus.
Another thing–the Admiral is a woman, but were there ANY other women working on that ship? I mean, there must have been, but I felt like I only saw dudes in this episode. Maybe, like, Gaeta's counterpart could have been a woman, or something.
That has to have been deliberate, no? To say something about Cain, her ship, and/or her situation. I can't imagine the showrunner, writer, director, casting director, et al. not noticing.
Maybe? The wiki speculates that it was to emphasize the hardcore military "boys' club" culture that led to rape being an okay thing not just to do but to joke about, but on the other hand, va "Enmbe," juvpu vf nobhg Crtnfhf, gurer vf n zber onynaprq engvb bs zra naq jbzra ba gur fuvc.
There was a girl pilot in the scene where where Starbuck was making fun of them, I think? Besides the engineer, CAG and the XO I think there's only the dudes that brag about raping people-am I forgetting anybody?
"Also, what the fuck is up with Billy? They give him one random, pointless appearance an episode now? "
This is because the npgbe jnf va gnyxf jvgu gur Xavtug Evqre erznxr crbcyr naq jnf gelvat gb trg bhg bs qbvat OFT. Frr ubj jryy gung jbexrq bhg sbe uvz?
One little moment I loved in this episode was Roslin telling Adama that Cain won't even take her calls. Not only is it a nice conversation between the two of them, it's also VERY revealing about Cain. Even if she hadn't allowed the torture and rape of a prisoner, or shot her XO, or any of that really high-profile, attention grabbing awful stuff, she STILL wouldn't have made a good leader for the fleet. She clearly has no respect for Roslin, and no time for civilians in general.
I suppose the best thing about this episode is that it's a kind of window into what would have happened without Roslin. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think Adama would have done any of the terrible crap that Cain did, but the lack of a civilian fleet/government has clearly affected the Pegasus greatly. They have no-one to answer to, no-one to compromise with or take orders from. Cain has gotten too used to being the God of her own little world, and it really shows.
Good point. There's no checks and balances at ALL.
Oh, this episode. I haven't seen the long form version, but just bringing to mind the image of a brutalized Six on the floor of that cell brings tears to my eyes. I don't think I could even begin to organize my thoughts on it, so kudos to you for doing so masterfully, Mark.
I’m writing this from m phone on a plane I just boarded. So I don’t have much time. But this was the first episode of BSG I ever saw and it colored my perception of the show, especially Baltar . For what be does in this episode I love him forever.
God, this fucking episode. Such thoroughly, THOROUGHLY disturbing things happen, and they're the kinds of utterly terrible things that stick with viewers. At least we got some Adama badassery. "I'M GETTING MY MEN." Goddamned right you are, Bill!
One of the differences between the Extended and Aired cuts of this episode is that in the aired version, it's a lot more ambiguous if actual penetrative rape of Sharon occurred, whereas it's pretty obvious in the extended cut that it did.
No, oh no. Please say that's not true. I've only ever seen the aired version, and I thought they got there before that. Not "in time" of course, because she was violated either way. But oh God, I thought before she suffered that too. God, let them have gotten there before that. Sharon, oh no, Sharon. My heart.
Just read on the wiki — the extended rape scene version is an ALTERNATE version, not extended. It's not intended to be ambiguous in the aired version, i.e. the penetration was averted in canon. See the below:
Moore also stated in the podcast that an alternate version of the attempted rape scene with Sharon was also filmed in which the rape was actually underway when Tyrol and Helo intervened. Ultimately, the decision was made to use the version seen where Thorne is stopped just in time, before he is able to rape Sharon. This is an alternate scene and wasn't just deleted for time: it wasn't in the script, but after discussing it director Michael Rymer, Grace Park and the rest of the cast decided to create it. The production team and writers liked the originally scripted, averted-at-the-last-minute-rape scene better anyway, so the alternate version was not used in the aired episode.
An interesting point that a friend of mine said- Cain and Pegasus are what Galactica could have become without the humanizing influence of Roslin. Without Roslin to say "The war is over, we lost" and "WE HAVE TO RUN AND SAVE WHAT IS LEFT OF OUR SKINS" it is very easy to see how the military could have taken over the civilian aspects, rahter than working an a sometimes uneasy balance.
But this episode, man. THIS EPISODE. This showed how incredible Tricia Helfer really is. That heartbreaking scene where she and Blatar find the other Six- that was incredible on all their parts. Her face. His quiet "I need you to leave right now. I can help her, but you need to let me do that." HER FACE.
It's always amazing to me that Galactica was Tricia Helfer's first big acting role – I think she was the victim in one episode of CSI, then she did Galactica, and beginning right with the miniseries she was doing AMAZING work.
I never would've guessed that. Tricia Helfer for all the awards!
Best part is, she used to be a fashion model! She did editorial, runway and print campaigns for pretty much all the major fashion brands of the 90s before quitting to take up acting – Versace, Dior, Givenchy, Victoria's Secret, you name it – and apparently the network executives were worried about her casting because she had so little acting experience, but she's SO GOOD here.
Your friend and I are clearly of ~one mind~ because I thought exactly the same thing, as I mentioned above. 😛
Wait, I'm not your friend am I? I do HAVE a red-headed friend…
A great subtle sign about the kind of person that Cain is occurs right at the start, when she tells the Galactica crew "Welcome back to the fleet," even though she's one ship joining many. To Cain, she is the fleet and anyone else is subordinate to that.
Bear McCreary earns his paycheck again with that furious violin piece in the last couple minutes. It's up there with The Shape of Things to Come among the show's best music ever.
holy shit, i did not even notice she said that.
And yes, I have not commented on it, but the music continues to get MORE AMAZING with each episode.
When you get to season three, you need to start reading McCreary's blog – he did a post-per-episode thing as they were airing from the start of season three through the finale, with notes on all the little recurring themes and stuff. So awesome.
Linkage for the first one: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=43
BE WARNED: Bear assumes you've seen the episode before reading, so don't go there until you get to the season three opening episode be zber cebcreyl rcvfbqrf cyheny, vg'f n gjb cnegre gvgyrq Bpphcngvba naq Cerpvcvpr
It's called "Prelude to War" and it's my absolute favorite piece of music from the first two seasons of the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs – Version from the soundtrack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEhlAA85_tY – Bear McCreary playing it solo on piano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxUk-37hRnw – Live version with electric guitars playing the violin part.
Wow. I don't usually pay that much attention to soundtracks while they're playing on the show, because I get lost in what's happening onscreen. But hearing this out of context really makes me appreciate it.
All the BSG music is pretty much frakking epic, and that is not an exaggeration. But if you haven't seen the show, don't search for music on the internet – just – don't. Spoilers are in the titles, and some are more popular than others, so on YouTube you'll definitely get spoiled.
(This is a good warning and I'm spreading it happily)
Yeah, I really hope Mark remains unspoiled for gung bar nobhg gur gbjref naq gur jngpuvat.
This song is the reason that the BSG soundtrack hasn't not been on my [gah, what do I call an mp3 player when I don't use horrible lossy mp3-format files?] player since the day I got it.
Prelude to War is a truly epic piece of music.
Prelude to War
It's weird because I only bought the soundtracks recently, and now I'm re-watching the show, I keep recognising pieces and being all 'Oh! That's so-and-so. I love this track!' My parents get so mad at me when I do that and we're watching something together. 😛
Easily one of my favorite tracks of the series.
[youtube SlcUwUwjLrs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs youtube]
It's really interesting to go through and pick out how many times Cain has lines and actions like that, establishing her superiority as much as possible.
I was IMing at my friend who has seen the entire show while I was watching this (and I'm sure she was laughing at me in my naive state) and re-reading the chat logs, its kind of hilarious how quickly I went from, "There's another ship! There are more survivors! And there's an awesome woman Admiral!" to, "OMG FUCK EVERYTHING GO HELO AND TYROL KILL THE BASTARD WHAT WHY WHAT ARE YOU DOING OH MY GOD." By the end, I was all capsing at her: "WHERE IS SAM MERLOTTE WHEN YOU NEED HIM TO KILL A MAENAD?!" /random other fandom sidebar
Oh hi Ro Laren frankly I liked you better as a Bajoran.
It's hard to un-see once you've realised, isn't it?
Riker and Cain, sittin' in a tree….
Her name is Cain. That never bodes well in fiction.
And now I’m going to speak less-than-charitably on how I feel BSG deals with its depiction of rape. Feel free to skip.
Okay, so Cally was almost raped in S1, and we never got anything on that later. This would have been a prime opportunity – she’s the one that shot Boomer, but here she’s basically on Sharon’s and Six’s side when those dudes are joking about rape. It could have been a really interesting moment for Cally where she could have a personal struggle with hating the Cylons but not wanting to see any of them tortured and raped. And further, we could have also got to see some enumerated emotional impact from the attempted rape in S1. But instead we have to read between the lines.
I said before one of the reasons I don’t like how rape is used in sci-fi stories is that rarely there’s focus on how these women (and it’s always women being raped in sci-fi, isn’t it?) cope with it later. And that’s true with Cally. Also, we haven’t really gone back to the ramifications on Starbuck with the whole attempted stealing of her ovaries and forced impregnation shit. Apparently, it’s more important to work on building a love triangle between her, Sam, and Lee than to show Starbuck getting over what happened to her in The Farm and her conviction at the end of that episode to destroy every single farm on Caprica. Nope, her desire to go back to Caprica is about Sam and not all the women she was ready to fight for earlier.
To me, this episode’s rape issues look to be about making the Pegasus crew all evil and villainous and shit while valorizing Helo, Tyrol, and Baltar (with additional focus on how Six’s rape/trauma affects Baltar. Goody.). It’s rape as plot device and a means of terrorizing characters, over and over and over again in this genre, and to some extent on this very show. I will say that the demonstration of rape as something evil and unglamorous is executed fairly well here, but ffs I’m just so damn tired of it.
You're completely right about how the women have not been the focus of these various rape scenarios. I feel bad for liking the scene in which Baltar talks to prisonerSix because you're right, the focus is on him and his feelings rather than her. And it didn't even occur to me that we've gotten no follow-up on Starbuck's experience with the farm. That does bother me and I'm glad you brought it up.
I do think this show handled rape much better than a lot of other shows/movies. A lot of the time rape scenes are shot in a sexualizing way, as if they're supposed to be titillating rather than violent and traumatic.
I guess this comment is just to say that I agree with your comment.
I sincerely don't mean to make anyone feel badly about their own opinion. And I do agree that the way Baltar reacts in that scene does a lot to humanize him (and Six), and it's one of the few times I've been sympathetic and even interested in him and his struggles. I just find it problematic that so much of that scene becomes about him.
I also agree that the way these scenes are filmed in BSG is a lot better than many other rape scenes in media. I absolutely do appreciate that this show isn't sexualizing those moments for titillation. But I've seen so many positive reactions to this aspect of the show elsewhere, to the extent that I've heard people say that BSG handles rape well and use the show as a case example of Doing It Right. And so far, at least, I disagree. The depiction of the rape itself is pretty damn good, but the full execution of rape as something with lasting effects I find lacking.
I'm glad you brought up these issues because I was very close to being one of those thinking BSG is doing it right. It's good to keep in mind that rape scenarios can still be handled much better than we're seeing here.
I guess I will just have to have a nuanced opinion of that scene. DAMN IT. I HATE NUANCE.
I think what this episode does is force us to confront the "Cylons, people or not?" dilemma head on. The Pegasus crew consider their Six to be a thing, and things do not have the right to consent, or to withhold consent. People have that right, not things. And now the people on Galactica have to consider that question (Helo is firmly on the side of People, Tyrol less firmly but still there, Adama, who just the episode before called Sharon a thing is clearly struggling) while they go to an attack posture. Yes, it's for Helo and Tyrol, but really, what are they fighting for?
I am not sure what the idea of "rape as a weapon of war" when the victim is a human woman would be to the Fleet- because women are in combat positions, I suspect it would be at the very least repugnant, if not an anathema.
I wonder if they would have raped a male Cylon prisoner.
Well they do rape male human prisoners irl-with foreign objects often. If you mean if they would show that on tv, then yeah that's an excellent question
edit: I forgot to put the word "male" in that sentence. How did I forget that?
1) I acknowledge that the women are pushed a bit to the background
2) SLIGHT SPOILER FOR 2×11:
V guvax gur yvar "Lbh pna'g encr n znpuvar" vf vzcbegnag – it draws the question of WHAT RAPE IS into the foreground while at the same time depicting the humans' (mostly mens') reactions. Yes, the women are used as plot devices in that way, but they're also plot devices to show that rape is bad, as simply stupid as that sounds.
3) I don't know about y'all, but during the Six/Gaius scenes I (almost?) couldn't concentrate on what Baltar was saying because I was so focused on Six. When I watched Baltar it wasn't about him but about his reaction to her for me, as if he was a mirror of my thoughts in feeling, not in words. Of course, I have no idea how much of that depends on the individual viewer.
LOL I'm so used to rot-13ing everything that I did it to your point #3 and then wondered why I couldn't read it 😀
I endorse this comment. I hate it when rape is used as a plot device to further the character development of the (usually male) characters around the woman rather than actually being about the woman and her experiences. Blegh. This is a big plot point in one of my favorite TV shows of all time and uuuugh. I cannot stand it.
Which show?
Re: your last bit, I think the rape and torture isn't only being used to show how bad and villanous the folks over at Pegasus are, but also really underscore what they've all been wrestling with for awhile: are the Cylons persons? Can they consent? If Laura can throw one out the airlock like she would with a discovered landmine, can a Pegasus officer rape one of them? Where is the line drawn and why?
That being said, though, I'm down with your criticism. This is an exhausting trope even when it's done well, as I feel it's done here. And I hope the trauma and coping of these characters is explored moving forward and not just dropped once everyone's made their point, ugh.
I personally think that the scene with Cally is there exactly to remind you of the lasting effects of her season one near rape and she does not have to explictly state "well I was almost raped and now I'm really angry with all of you for allowing this and hurt in my soul for all time". The American television audience in general often complains about how shows force feed their themes and ideas down our throats. Serialized shows like BSG and LOST expect you to view every episode and remember these type of incidents exactly so they don't have to force feed you these themes.
They do the exact same thing with Adama after he is shot. You see him having to hold on to others while he is walking, or maybe questioning his decisions a little more than he would before his shooting. Again, it is subtle and there for the audience to pick up on, not forced on you. I don't think I need a whole monologue from Cally to understand she still has lasting effects from her near-rape. Plus, this is already a jam packed 90 minute episode of television. We get what we need from the Cally scene without slowing the pace of the show.
I also disagree with your assessment that Starbuck shows no lasting impact from her time on Caprica. I've rewatched this show about 50 times now, and I can really see the subtle change in Starbuck's personality since the events of the farm. I don't think that is forgotten on the show at all.
Gur enzvsvpngvbaf bs gur snez rcvfbqr naq gursg bs ure binel ner sryg guebhtubhg frnfba 3, sbe vafgnapr.
Apparently, it's more important to work on building a love triangle between her, Sam, and Lee than to show Starbuck getting over what happened to her in The Farm and her conviction at the end of that episode to destroy every single farm on Caprica. Nope, her desire to go back to Caprica is about Sam and not all the women she was ready to fight for earlier.
So this reminds me that I wasn't around to post on the Farm episode either, but when we got to the scene where the girl was telling Starbuck to cut the power and go, I was most definitely thinking that no way in hell, if it had been her white boyfriend strapped into a machine like that, would they have him say "there's no time to get me out, kill me and save yourself!"
But hell yess, there are other kinds of drama besides love triangles, I just wish it was the case more often on this show.
I didn't like the rape being all about the dudes' heroics but personally I didn't mind Cally's moment being what it was-in that particular situation anyways. Overall I totally agree that it's weirdly not being addressed in relation to her other character developments and I really really don't like that.
V guvax vg’f n ovg hasnve gb fnl gung OFT qbrf abg sbphf ba gur srznyr punenpgref’ rkcrevraprf jvgu frkhny nffnhyg naq encr naq gurve nsgrezngu ng guvf cbvag (vs guvf vf lbhe svefg jngpu), ohg vg’f uneq gb qvfphff jvgubhg orvat fcbvyrel.
V guvax lbh’er evtug gung Pnyyl’f nffnhyg vf qrnyg jvgu va n ernq-orgjrra-gur-yvarf fbeg bs jnl nsgre gur raq bs gung cnegvphyne rcvfbqr. Ohg V qba’g guvax nal bs gur jbzra jub jrer abg noyr gb svtug bss gurve nggnpxref trg bss fb yvtugyl.
Fgneohpx’f rkcrevraprf ba Pncevpn naq gur gursg bs ure binel pbzr onpx bire naq bire ntnva va fb znal jnlf. Fur vf qrnqyl frevbhf nobhg plybaf — fur arire wbxrf nobhg gurz gur jnl bgure cvybgf qb. Fur znxrf n fhvpvqr cnpg jura gur cebfcrpg bs ergheavat gb n Snez vf envfrq va Ynl Qbja Lbhe Oheqraf. Gur binel guvat vf n ovt, ovt vffhr va frnfba 3, va fhpu n perrcl jnl gung V’z xvaq bs qernqvat gur erjngpu.
Tvan arire trgf bire ure encr naq gbegher. Fur xvyyf Pnva, ure sbezre ybire. Gur fprar jurer fur haqerffrf sbe Onygne va gur frnfba svanyr vf fb fxvapenjyvatyl njshy gung V srry fvpx whfg guvaxvat nobhg vg. Naq fur pbzzvgf fhvpvqr va n jnl gung nyybjf gur plybaf gb svaq gur uhzna syrrg.
Nf cerivbhf cbfgref fnvq, Funeba’f nsgrezngu vf nyfb cerggl urnil, gubhtu n ybg bs gur yngre rssrpgf trg zvkrq hc va gur jubyr onol guvat.
I had to change your first paragraph to rot13 because when it was in plain text, it was pretty clear you were saying x does/doesn't happen on the show later.
V jbhyqa'g unir ercyvrq gb lbhe pbzzrag rkprcg vg jnf fcbvyrel naq V unq gb nqqerff gung. Fb juvyr V'z urer, V fhccbfr V fubhyq npghnyyl erfcbaq gb lbhe pbzzrag. V unir jngpurq gur fubj, ohg gung qbrfa'g punatr gur snpg gung ng guvf cbvag, naq gung vf ubj erivrjf ner unaqyrq ba guvf oybt, encr vf hfrq naq gur sbphf/cbvag vfa'g ernyyl gur jbzra. Abar bs jung lbh cbfgrq punatrf gur bgure fghss V fnvq nobhg ubj encr vf hfrq gb znxr crbcyr rivy, be gb inybevmr gur "tbbq thlf", be ubj Tvan'f encr vf nobhg Onygne (juvpu vf jung vg'f nobhg va gur shgher, gbb).
Sorry about the intro — I thought it was general, but will be more cautious in the future.
Confining myself strictly to this episode, I don't entirely agree that Sharon's rape was exclusively about the depravity of the Pegasus crew. I think that it is used to interrogate the central conceit of Sharon's identity: that she is a real person with all the dignity and emotional strength/vulnerability of a genuine human. In this episode, when we see her fear and trauma — that blanket scene, ugh — we are presented with compelling evidence that she is correct in her self-assessment and that anyone who thinks of her as a machine is missing something important. I don't think the show is terrorizing the character for a base purpose, but rather to support her claim to humanity.
I didn't mean to say or imply that Sharon's rape is exclusively done to make the Pegasus crew evil. So that is something I could have been clearer about, sorry. But the point is that there are other ways to explore Sharon's humanity and depict that others don't regard her as a person in her own right.
"I don't think the show is terrorizing the character for a base purpose, but rather to support her claim to humanity."
I think I would agree with this, actually. But there are many ways of terrorizing people, and the show chose rape, which is something that the genre as a whole tends to be bad at handling, imo. What if the Pegasus crew just used physical violence to torture cylons because they enjoy it? They could have, but I suspect the writers figured rape was more barbaric and gruesome. And that's essentially the point I'm making with regards to this episode specifically – the use of rape in this episode basically turns the Pegasus crew into comically evil puppy-kicking depraved humans who are wrong wrong wrong. Put it this way – we've seen Galactica use physical torture before. But we haven't seen them rape. What has happened so far concerning those who rape on this show is that they are always the bad guys doing it and never our heroes. On this show so far, the good side doesn't rape. And that's not true to life – rapists are on all sides. Rape is something our heroes never do, meaning those who are raping people on this show are obviously the bad guys and not the ones to root for. Whereas Starbuck can torture Leoben, but she's still a hero. It's rape that sets Galactica and Pegasus apart.
I think that your last point is a good one.
Thanks. I have to say I was dreading having this conversation a bit (as was the point I was trying to make in the beginning of that rot13 reply to you, which rereading I failed to actually explain the basis of) since it's a tough subject, but all is well!
Thanks for an interesting conversation. I think we've both made important points.
This episode is straight-up horror. It scared me more than any stupid scary movie. But I think the writers handled this shit masterfully and I say that as a person who wants to start strangling writers just about every time rape comes up in media, especially television.
I've been sort of dreading Mark Watches Pegasus since you started BSG, tbh. It's so good but it is so, so, so bad, and every time I watch it my stomach turns over and inside out and eslkjfelgsekfnsiugndrig i just can't.
Admiral Cain is played by the ammmmmazing Michelle Forbes who also played Ensign Ro Laren on Star Trek: The Next Generation.
Needless to say I LOVE every scene with Admiral Cain – I love @redheadedgirl's observation that Pegasus is sort of the mirror-universe Galactica, without the influence of Roslin. Really they are sort of polar opposites.
SO MANY awesome female characters of all alignments on this show. UGH.
Baltar is the character I love to watch the most. Starbuck is the character I identify with the most.
Cain is my favorite character.
"all the awards" just reminds me of how HORRIBLY Galactica got snubbed at the Emmys. Four Emmys won, all in technical categories, a couple of writing/directing nominations one year…
AND NOT A SINGLE NOMINATION IN ANY OF THE SEASONS FOR THE ACTING. NO ACTING NOMINATIONS AT ALL.
ALSO, NO MUSIC NOMINATIONS OR AWARDS.
NO, THAT IS A TRAVESTY. WTF, EMMY-CHOOSING STODGY PEOPLE?
The show did get a Peabody Award though, which is pretty prestigious.
It's episodes like these that just proves to me that BSG was one of the best shows on TV ever.
"I'm getting my men." Adama I love you. The music is amazing in that scene.
So…back when Mark was reading the Hunger Games I had just watched these episodes. As a result of their names and personalities being so similar, I ended up picturing President Coin as looking like an older Admiral Cain.
So…back when Mark was reading the Hunger Games I had just watched these episodes. As a result of their names and personalities being so similar, I ended up picturing President Coin as looking like an older Admiral Cain.
WHAT.
THAT ISN'T EVEN A CRIME, THAT IS A GODDAMN TRAGEDY.
Bear McCreary is a like a jedi master of music.
IT IS A CRIMINAL TRAGEDY TO THE N-TH DEGREE.
And then there's the whole 'let's have a special UN summit about the show'. I mean, it's not an Emmy, but you take what you can get, right?
I'd never watched the extended version before last night, which made the whole thing feel a little strange. Though I also don't really rewatch this one very often, unless I'm doing a whole series rewatch, so it may also be just that it's been a while since I've last seen it.
– Michelle Forbes is a favorite actress of mine, and even if her character is… well, her character, I thought she (the actress!) did a great job.
– This was obviously somewhat controversial, but I agree that I don't think they handled the issue of rape and abuse of military prisoners lightly, or even in the "rape as drama" trope way. I never felt like this was something they put in for the sake of it – honestly, I think it would have been disingenuous if they'd never done something like it. It is something that makes me skeptical of the claim that BSG-verse is a gender-equal society (I'm not saying rape would never happen in such a society – and I am leaving out discussion of Cain's role in this for a reason – but women are clearly thought of and sexualized in a way men are not in this, from the way the Pegasus soldiers talk to even Baltar's vision of Head Six), and I'm sure there could be more discussion about how it was done, but I think it would have been more problematic to not deal with this reality of warfare at all.
– I will say the main reason I previously avoided watching the extended version was due to the talk of the rape scene being extended, and this was nothing more than me just not feeling I really needed that. I've read that it was originally scripted more along the lines of the shortened version, but the cast and crew decided while filming to also do a longer sequence. Now having watched it, and trying to say this right – I can't say I felt a significant difference. I understand the differentiation, but I don't think it means anything when it comes to what's "mature content" or "appropriate to broadcast" or the like. I guess what I'm saying is that while I see the point that one is worse, the other really isn't better.
– In any case, Grace Park pulling the blanket over herself (which I believe she improvised) is one of my favorite acting moments in this show.
Yes, the blanket. I keep coming back to that, in my thoughts even. That episode has a tendency to just creep up on me and hit me in the stomach with unhappy raw thoughts.
I doubt it- you'd know who I am if you were.
Does the word "melm" mean anything to you?
THIS EPISODE! We watched it last night and OMG. I had to post on Mark's facebook because I just couldn't contain myself. I was SO excite when they found the Pegasus and then it all just went from bad to worse. I don't think an episode of TV has ever so flagrantly laughed at my hopeful glee before dashing it to pieces.
Mark mentioned this yesterday, but one thing I have noticed about this show (I'm new to it, watching along with Mark for the first time) is how *intense* it is. I don't think I have ever watched a show (with the except of Torchwood: Children of Earth HOLY SHIT) that was just so nonstop TENSE. Even when things aren't AWFUL they are still moving at a fast pace that keeps me on the edge of my seat. When we first saw Six, I forgot to breathe.
Speaking of Six … does she have a name besides Six?
Not so far!
Just making sure I didn't miss anything lol!
Hey, me too!
Weird how the mind makes those kind of connections, huh?
Shit, yeah, good point, forgot about that.
Pulling the blanket over herself was genius acting.
Yeah, that's when I had to pause the show (when I watched it live, not last night, heh) to cry and cry and cry. Then take a deep breath and get back to it.
Nope, 'fraid not. I guess not then! 😛
It's always my hope I'll randomly meet someone I know IRL on here.
Hey another Battlestar survived, and it's full of AWFUL HORRIBLE ASSHOLES (well okay Laird seemed okay but everyone else is horrible).
The opening scenes where the Pegasus arrives are so well done. The build up as they establish that it's a Colonial ship, the crews meeting on the deck. After the previous episodes emphasised the crew shortage on Galactica and the general despair at the fleet being all that's left the joy at the addition of the Pegasus makes a lot of sense and gives us a very brief moment of happiness. Although like I said, most of them turn out to be such deeply unpleasant (to put it far too mildly) people.
Particularly Admiral Cain. Mark has pretty much said everything I could think of about how utterly awful she is about everything. Michelle Forbes does a brilliant job of making her infuriating. The "You look like I just shot your dog." to Laura is a moment that really gets to me. It just feels wrong to see Bill deferring to someone besides Laura and the show seems aware of that.
It feels wrong to be talking about this sort of rather superficial point in this episode, but the composition of the scene in the hallway between Cain and Gaius with Six off to the side always strikes me. There's something about the lighting, or the splash of colour from Six's dress that make her seem…added kind of? The rest of the frame is so grey that she stands out and seems so ethereal.
but shows us just how talented Tricia Helfer and James Callis are.
I cannot tell you how much I agree with this. Especially Tricia and especially in the introduction to the Pegasus Six. She has to portray the affects of the abuse the character has suffered AND play another character reacting to said abuse and she does both parts of that scene incredibly well. It's clear just how deeply outraged Head!Six is at seeing what's happened to the other Six.
A lot of praise has to go to Grace Park as well. Sharon…it's hard to watch what happens to her in this episode, talking about it that much harder and a lot of that has to do with how Grace Park delivers the scene. Even if she wasn't my favourite character watching Sharon curl up and pull the blanket around herself would have me in tears every time.
ugh, with the blanket. i cried the first time i watched that. all the awards.
This is a difficult episode to watch, but it is excellently written and acted and WOW I JUST DESCRIBED ALL OF BSG. Heh.
On the surface, Cain makes some excellent points about Adama re: his objectivity concerning senior officers like Lee or Helo. Her good points, however, are far outweighed by her bad ones. Like shooting an officer for refusing to obey an order. And… jeez I can't even talk about Cain anymore because I will break into spoilers.
I hate/love that little moment where Sharon covers herself with the blanket after being so horribly violated. It's very real, and twisted and sad. I hate the moment because I am disgusted by what happened to her, but still… shivers.
seeing that poor Six all curled up and terrified was heartbreaking!!! but i have to say, i am so glad that they showed it and didn't "pretty" it up for the camera. i was cheering out loud when tyrol and helo ran to save boomer from the same (the guy pulling down her pants and undoing his is still a haunting scene to me). this show goes there, and we love it because it does
Oh man, this episode. I'm glad that "The Flight of the Phoenix" was happy feel good funtimes, because "Pegasus" makes me hate everything. Don't get me wrong, it's a good episode, I was just seething with rage the whole time. I don't share your almost-affection for Cain. Her entire being just set me on edge; even her name is evocative of bad things (murder! mutiny!). It's ridiculous, but I resent the crew of the Pegasus for being usurpers. Their characters are plainly unlikable, not even in a nuanced way, but it worked on me. I really sympathized with Roslin when she found out that Admiral Cain was the ranking officer, and that the relationship and understanding she had forged with Adama was now useless, with little time left to her to boot.
As for the "joke," I was siding with Tigh's interpretation. Like, he realized "oops, said too much, better cover my ass." That was only reinforced after seeing the scared little bunny civilian aeronautics guy, the way Cain runs her ship, and the looks on the faces in the CIC after she gave the order to send out the alert fighters. They don't seem to want to do it, but they're afraid to disobey. I was just getting District 13 vibes from Pegasus; Cain runs a tight ship, and will do and allow anything to maintain order. I suppose it was good to see that humans aren't all flawed but essentially decent people, but does it really count if they're not our side?
And then there's the rape. Thanks for posting those links, because even though I was extremely uncomfortable with the story, it's a realistic depiction of what happens in war. Still, I'm tired of watching Boomer and Sharon suffer. It's constant. I know they don't have an easy storyline, but I hate watching it. It doesn't seem inserted solely to make Sharon vulnerable and in need of rescue, but that element is still there. I don't know how I really feel about this — uneasy? — and I'll wait to see what the repercussions are in the story before passing judgment. Oh, and I should say I'm glad Baltar is around, since he's about the only character who sees the Cylons as more than toasters AND is in a position to do something about it. I never thought I'd consider him the most moral human character, but there you go.
(thanks for eating my comment right before I hit submit, ID!)
Yeah, the civilian aeronautics guy really made me suspicious. What did he say, that he was a civilian on a ship and then "things happened"? SHADY. WHAT DID YOU DO TO HIS SHIP, CAIN.
Yes, thank you. It's obvious that the writers really want us to like Sharon but I don't get why their main way of making this happen is by showing her in pain a lot. Okay, at first they needed us to understand that cylons really do have feelings, I get that, but at this stage it seems like they can't think of something else to do with her. I hope it's building towards something because it's really getting to be a lot.
Rereading my comment, it seems like it came off in a mean-spirited snarky way, when I intended it to be more playful. Even if it didn't bother you, it bothers me now, so I wanted to apologize for that. So I will: I sorry.
I HAVE!! It was very amusing.
"The "You look like I just shot your dog." to Laura is a moment that really gets to me. It just feels wrong to see Bill deferring to someone besides Laura and the show seems aware of that. "
That line always struck me as very patronising as well. It's only natural that Laura should feel uncomfortable suddenly having to deal with a completely new person, and Cain just shrugs off her concern by essentially making fun of her.
Also, tacitly referring to Adama as Roslin's dog while he's standing right there. I mean, I know it's only a figure of speech, but jeez, you couldn't think of a better way of putting it?
By the way, Mark, this episode is actually one of the few times they brought something forward from the original series; "Pegasus" and the two following episodes are very loosely based on the two-parter "The Living Legend", with Lloyd Bridges playing Commander Cain.
If you ever decide to watch any of the original show (which, I fear, would be quite a disappointment compared to the modern one), those two episodes (in addition to the original movie) would be a good touchstone to compare the two series.
I totally didn't see it snarkily, just as a slightly playful reminder, so I'll accept your apology even though I think it wasn't necessary. 🙂
Me too, I'd love to have an IRL friend to talk about this community with.
Four months? Fuck that. I watched BSG in real time. Don't even get me started on the wait for season 4.5, as it added lines to my face & grey to my hair. (Worth it all at the end, though.) And Mark, bless you. You've only just watched Pegasus. There's unprepared and then there's UNPREPARED!!!!!!!!
Daily do I say that it rules to be Mark. Probably also rules to be Michelle Forbes and she probably should have won an Emmy for her portrayal of Cain. Just as OImos, McConnell, Callis, Sackhoff, et. al, should have been recognized with ALL THE AWARDS at some point during BSG's run. They earned it.
As did (does!) Jamie Bamber, for being British. The end.
I've been watching Jamie Bamber on Law and Order UK. Which also has Freema Agyeman. It's pretty adorable. And I like hearing his real accent…
I think chanty refers to Lords of Kobol which also features somewhere near the start of this episode, I think during the two crews meeting scene.
I think chanty refers to Lords of Kobol which also features somewhere near the start of this episode, I think during the two crews meeting scene.
Haha, whoops, that would make sense then!
I find Baltar fascinating in this episode. The way he acts towards Six with compassion and respect…and yet, when you think of everything he's done…
To me, he seems almost like an Ebenezer Scrooge-type character – he's fine with people suffering and dying until he's personally confronted by it. Though he always puts himself first, he's never intentionally cruel to others without reason. He has the power to help the Six, and he won't be put in danger by doing so, so he does.
But I still think that if there came a time when he had to choose between her safety and his own, he would always come first. That's just the kind of person he is.
I thought of President Coin while watching! I think that just made me heap on more hate!
One of the best things about this episode is how it furthers the characterization of both Baltar and Six. Before this episode it didn't occur to me that Baltar loved Six. His feelings toward her seemed more like obsession and lust. In the scene with him and the tortured copy of Six we get to see how deeply he still cares for her. It humanizes him quite a bit. Nether Baltar nor Headsix have been portrayed in ways that invite a lot of sympathy. Here we get to see them both feeling very raw and vulnerable.
Although I can see why Echinodermata interpreted the scene with Baltar talking to the tortured Six as being all about him, I still thought it was gorgeously done and one of the more touching scenes in the entire series so far. I guess it's because it's the first time we see Baltar feeling vulnerable over something that is not about him because he's normally so self-centered. This is the first time we've seen Baltar get this upset about something that isn't his own life. I do hope we'll get follow up scenes with Sharon and at least one of the Sixes to see how they're coping with the way they've been treated.
Finally, I want to point out the obvious: everyone's acting was superb in this episode. That said, I don't think I can watch this episode again. Just thinking about it makes my stomach ache.
I think seeing Pegasus-Six broken and catatonic was very jolting for Baltar, because visually, she's almost exactly like his Six, so it was like seeing his Six in that state. I think that made him realize his true feelings for her.
I honestly don't know how to feel about this episode. While I was watching it (on my TV!!! I just programmed my Wii for Netflix and it is pretty much the most exciting thing ever), I had a lot of emotions. Mostly I was like "YAY!!!" when the Gallactica came across the Pegasus, and then it was basically a sharp downward spiral into horror.
Reflecting on this episode, I just don't know how to feel. I've never been raped or sexually assaulted, but I still felt really upset watching the scene with Sharon play out. I don't know how to explain it, but that scene was just really hard for me to watch, and I have to wonder if it was necessary. If the show wasn't going to really explore the ramifications and implications of rape, especially in this situation, it feels a bit like it's been trivialized and just being used for extra drama. Which I really don't like especially when that scene with Sharon made me feel uncomfortable and just sick. Ugh. If I ever rewatch this episode, I'm skipping that scene because I don't think I can handle seeing it again. Too upsetting.
A scene with Sharon afterwards would've been nice. As it is, it comes across (for me) as focusing on what her assault meant for the men in her life. :/
Definitely. For me when I was watching the episode my focus was on Sharon who was sobbing on the ground. I wanted to know how SHE was doing, but instead it seemed like it was all about what the implications were for Tyrol and Helo.
IAWTC
Wow, that's so true. For the rest of the episode all of the tension seems to come from the fact that Tyrol and Helo are on trial (and going to be executed, which, to be fair, is about as tense as situations get) but it's as if the show just forgot about Sharon. Maybe we'll see more of her aftermath in the next episode. I've actually seen the whole show but it was a long time ago and I've forgotten almost everything.
I was with Sharon too, but on a thematic level, I can understand why the show went with Helo and Chief mostly after that, since their actions just about escalated everything and all went downhill for sure. Though, at least a small cut-back should have been possible.
I love watching Netflix on TV! When we got our PS3 set up it was awesome! Although with the PS3 you have to deal with the playstation network being down every five minutes.
Um. That seems like an inane comment in light of everything.
I can handle watching the rape scene. I don't know why? I mean, I have not been raped, so it doesn't trigger any memories for me. It's still very upsetting, but in a way that I feel like I need to watch, because this same thing happens all the time in the real world. I feel a need to… bear witness to it or something. It's weird.
I actually feel the same way. A lot of the time, with scenes I find really hard to watch, I'll just look away (like the gross scene last ep. with Sharon putting the cable into her arm *shudder*)
But I feel somehow like not watching this scene would be like…I don't know, as if I'm ignoring the problem or something? Maybe because rape is sometimes seen as a kind of shameful subject that shouldn't be discussed, I feel as if I'm doing the character a disservice if I'm shying away from it? I mean, she can't just look away and pretend it isn't happening, so neither should I.
IDK, I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself very well, but I think I know what you mean, is what I'm trying to say.
Well, despite the fact that plot-wise it became about the male characters as other people have already mentioned and criticized, a large part of the reason why it's there WAS to address the issue that rape is necessarily about the dehumanization of the recipient of the violence. So in context I can appreciate that it's not JUST about teh drama or the writers not being able to think of something more exciting to happen this week-which tbqh seemed more like the case with Cally on "Bastille Day."
I went into my problems with this part already, besides that a big part of why I could handle this scene is that nothing ended up happening. A lot of rape scenes I just have to look away till it's over. Also I'm a french major and as such I watch a lot of movies for language practice and I swear like half the movies to come out of France in the last decade are either some kind of torture pron or have a rape scene that's at least 5 minutes long, so I dunno I have a slightly higher threshhold than I used to (regardless: wtf, France, explain yourselves!)
I don't have a wii or ps3 but I have a box that does that and yes it is the best!
As I have said in previous reviews, this show is meant to be a commentary on our post 9/11 world and the way we as a society wage war. Like the way it is used in the show or not, I think it would be disingenuous for the show to demostrate other ways our military is fraked up and not show the rape scenes, especially after the much publicized Abu Ghraib disaster.
Also, I don't think it is very fair to the show to say that they are not going to explore the ramifications and impications of rape. They may not have done it in this particular episode with everything else going on, but how do you know they won't have a scene in the very next episode with Sharon talking about her feelings as a result of this. Maybe if they don't show any type of implications after the rest of the season, then make this comment.
Ah, I use Netflix so much more since I finally got around to setting it up on my Wii. I'm pretty sure Comcast hates me for that and throttles the hell outta my connection, but whatever.
I agree, I wish the focus had been more on Sharon, but I was also holding onto the hope that her side would get more attention in the next episode. If the focus stays on Tyrol and Helo, and Sharon's side isn't addressed, I'll be annoyed. I'm hoping that they'll explore the dehumanization of the enemy, but I don't know. I should probably start watching the next ep to find out.
I liked this episode, but I don't know if I'll rewatch it. It'll probably be a while.
I've seen this episode a couple of times, and it's still intense. I keep forgetting that all this shit happens in just ONE EPISODE. Between the first and second time I saw it, my memory had convinced myself that this stuff took place over the 2.5 season, and I was shocked (again) that, nope. One episode. You go from "oh yay more people!" to "admiral? fuuuuuck." to "maybe it will work out" to "HOLY FUCK NO NO NO NO NO!!!" in a span of 45 minutes. This show has balls, and pacing like a fucking freight train. One. Episode.
the Emmys hate science fiction, just like the Oscars.
The Emmys hate good outstanding TV in general, but SciFi doesn't even exist on their radar … except when it's in fashion.
It's all about fashion with these award shows.
So yeah, I downloaded the extended version because Netflix only has the cut version. I'm not exactly sure what the differences are because it's been forever since I saw this episode. I know about the rape scene difference, but that's all I could pinpoint.
Thoughts:
Dude, I thought the entire point of a faster than light jump was that it's FAST. Why would it take them over 200 jumps to get back to Caprica? They know where it is, right? Or does the FTL have a maximum range?
omg it's another battlestar! I hope this one isn't full of ASSHOLES! Oh wait.
With a name like "Admiral Cain," she's got to be a kind and generous person, right? Oh wait.
If Laura and Adama are Space Mommy and Daddy, I think Tigh is Space Old Man Next Door Who Yells Get Off My Lawn You Darn Kids.
The whole "at ease" thing cracks me up because of Mitch Hedberg: "I never joined the army because at ease was never that easy to me. Seemed rather uptight still. I don't relax by parting my legs slightly and putting my hands behind my back. That does not equal ease. At ease was not being in the military. I am at ease, bro, because I am not in the military."
I do like the bit where everyone hugs everyone else. There are people seeing people they thought they'd never see again! Yay!! NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!
"No one gets to insult your ship except you." "You're godsdamn right!" Hee, reminds me of Kaylee and Serenity.
LOL FUNNY JOKE, FISK. Except not funny and not a joke at all. Those are my least favorite kinds of jokes.
"See you don't keep track of your kills. You should start." DON'T TELL LEE WHAT TO DO, RANDOM GUY. *is protective of everyone on BSG*
"Got any porn in there?" LOLOL I LOVE YOU GAETA.
Pegasus-Six 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
Frr, guvf vf jul V qba'g trg Fvk nf na "natry bs Tbq." Fur'f boivbhfyl abg bzavfpvrag, nf fur qbrfa'g frrz gb xabj jub gur Plyba jvyy or hagvy fur frrf ure. Ohg fur bsgra xabjf guvatf Tnvhf qbrfa'g. Naq urer, fur npgf yvxr… n crefba. Fur'f fubpxrq, ubeevsvrq, ol jung unf orra qbar gb Tvan, naq fur cyrnqf jvgu Tnvhf gb fgbc gerngvat ure yvxr na bowrpg bs fpvragvsvp vagrerfg. Vf guvf gur svefg gvzr jr unira'g frra ure npgvat fhcrevbe gb Tnvhf?
Admiral Cain is like "we haven't been able to get anything out of our Cylon prisoner." MAYBE THAT'S BECAUSE TORTURE AND RAPE ARE NOT EFFECTIVE MEANS OF COMMUNICATION.
Admiral Cain collects weapons. Adama builds model ships. Enough said.
Sharon 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
This is just… the worst scene ever. I can't.
Seriously, I can't even imagine people talking about rape that way. "Please Disturb"? The worst part is, though, that there ARE people who act and think that way, in our world 🙁 Again I have to compare it to colonialism and slavery. Assimilation of a colonized culture is/was often done partly through rape, and slaves were/are seen as things, as property, for the "man of the house" to do what he liked with.
And as slimy as Baltar is, at least he treats Pegasus-Six like a person, and he knows that what's been done to her is awful. He presents it like an alternate strategy for getting her to talk (the "carrot"), because he is, as always, trying to survive and suck up to the people in charge. But he's also genuinely trying to help her. I wonder if he would have done the same if she hadn't been a Six, but I think you're right, Mark, that his monologue was one of the most well-done scenes in the show.
NOOO NO EXECUTING CHIEF AND HELO THEY ARE MY FAVORITES
I like Cally's look of satisfaction in the background when Adama says he's going to fight.
To be continued 🙁
What Cain says about Gaius making excuses for the Six killing a bunch of her men… it reminds me, weirdly enough, of Chris Rock's comment on the Tonight Show when the whole Roman Polanski thing was going down. He did say a couple of things that were kind of awful, but then he said something like "you know, when we capture Bin Laden, we're going to murder him. We're not going to rape him! That would be barbaric!"
No amount of killing justifies rape. None.
There's no speed limit as such, but their ability to make accurate calculations is limited. That's why Cylon Raiders can do it in less, ala Kobol's Last Gleaming.
I was thinking about this–how the hell does D'Anna get back to Caprica so fast to show the other Cylons the footage from Galactica at the end of "Final Cut"?
She didn't. That was another D'Anna. The footage was transmitted by Reporter D'Anna to the Cylon Fleet via the Raiders before they were destroyed. Like Caprica D'Anna said.
OH! I totally didn't get that. That makes much more sense!
Apart from how they were able to see the finished version, especially the clip of Adama punching the air in the ending montage, which he did when the second Raider was destroyed. But no writer is perfect. Personally I never think of that issue while actually watching.
This was the first time that I noticed that the population in the opening credits changes and the little tag at the very end of the credits. When the Pegasus first appeared, I was happy for about 30 seconds. I mean, more people has to be a good thing right? Then I was filled with an overwhelming sense of dread, it made me happy. This couldn't be a good sign.
Adama's outranked and not in charge anymore, I didn't realize how much I respect him until I saw how Cain ran her ship. They are very different people and have different motivations. Adama was ready to retire when the Cylons attacked, and he has Roslin's influence and authority. Cain was an ambitious officer with a long career ahead of her and she's been in charge of her own little society since the apocalypse. The Galactica gave up on the war pretty much right after the attack and have the hope of finding a new home, while the Pegasus crew are still fighting the war with no other long term plans.
Most of my comments have been about various Sharons. I can't help it, I like her. I know that in the BSG universe, she is not a human, I do. But it's really hard for me to divorce that from all the times throughout human history when that argument, "they're not really people," is and was used to justify treating groups of disenfranchised people as less than human. I'm am not a part of this fake society, duh, so to me Sharon is just as real as Starbuck, Lee, or anyone else on the show. I was having issues with how the BSG crew treated her, holy shit I was unprepared. Poor Pegasus Six.
Ok, the rape plot. I watched this episode about a week or two ago, and I had to take a break from the show because it affected me. The way that popular entertainment and art handles rape usually sucks. I wouldn't say that I've ever seen it done well, but BSG treated it better than most. Despite this, I think that it is an important subject and part of human life that art should explore.
But it's really hard for me to divorce that from all the times throughout human history when that argument, "they're not really people," is and was used to justify treating groups of disenfranchised people as less than human.
Yeah, this is a big thing I get out of the show, too. Like, even if a person (looks different or speaks a different language or has an entirely different culture or) is made out of synthetic cells, if they cry when you hurt them, you should probably stop hurting them, right?
Also, great points about the difference between Adama's and Cain's situations and how it affects their leadership styles.
Now I'm feeling a little bit guilty for just killing a fly.
This show brings up so many moral questions. Is it every justifiable to hate an entire species? I don't resent the way that humans feel about the Cylons, If space robots killed my entire family and everyone that I knew, I'd probably hate them too. Hating someone isn't unforgivable, it's what you do with your hatred. If humans want to think that they're better than the Cylons, they better start acting like it.
I get the impression that you've seen the whole show, qbrf n ebobg qbt rire fubj hc? Gur ebobg qbt jnf gur bayl guvat gung V xabj nobhg gur bevtvany frevrf, naq V ernyyl jnag gb frr gung er vzntvarq.
Unun, ab, V guvax gur pybfrfg guvat jr trg gb n Plyba qbt vf gerngvat gur Envqre yvxr n crg. Gurer vf na NPGHNY qbt, gubhtu. Jnvg! Jung vs gung qbt vf frpergyl n Plyba qbt? Gurl pna ybbx yvxr uhznaf, JUL ABG QBTF.
Humans want to think that they're better than the Cylons, they better start acting like it.
Exactly.
I think the best thing I can say about this episode is that I can't watch it. It is so real, and the actors just go for it. Total punch in the gut. Or, no, like a relentless pummeling.
I need to go eat an ice cream to get my mind on something else…
Y’all had to wait four months, ALLOW ME TO WAIT A FEW HOURS.
Right now, it totally rules to be me. THERE I SAID IT.
Oh, that did it. Now I'm full of jealous rage. NOT FAIR!
Mark, would you consider it a spoiler to give Pegasus Six's name? It's not said onscreen in these episodes but was used by the production staff.
I was wondering about that. I couldn't remember whether they ever used it on the show because we all know her name now.
I don't remember hearing it on the show–I think I learned it from Jacob's recaps. Nccneragyl vg vf fnvq ba Enmbe (juvpu V'ir arire frra), gubhtu. Fb znlor ubyq bss ba zragvbavat vg?
For those of you curious about the differences between the original and extended versions of "Pegasus," the wiki has a page detailing them here. Minor spoilers may exist at that page, and of course major spoilers at the rest of the wiki.
It's fun to listen to the commentary (recorded well after the airing) and listen to RDM and Eick try to remember what the changes were. "Was this in the original?" "I think so." "Are you sure?" "Part of it, I think?" And so on. (But I'm on record as a huge RDM-podcast fangirl, so y'know.)
Also from the wiki:
Leah Cairns discusses a humorous incident while shooting the episode:
Leah Cairns: One of the funniest things shooting a specific scene happened when we were shooting a scene where Pegasus meets Galactica. A scene with Michelle Forbes in it when Forbes and Adama see each other in the hangar deck. Eddie [James Olmos] wandered off set in the middle of shooting. He thought we were on a little break, and he wandered off, and Michael Rymer, the director didn't notice and called action! It was a close up on Michelle Forbes and Rymer had no idea that Eddie wasn't there. And Michelle Forbes being the professional that she is…. when the camera is rolling you do your business….. so she started the scene! But there was no one to respond to her! So James Callis nonchalantly comes over and steps into Eddie's place and puts on the best Adama voice you'd ever heard! Better than Eddie can do! (laughs) And they did the entire scene with Michelle and James Callis as Adama, and Michelle almost pulled it off, except Mary [McDonnell] got the giggles and started laughing and then all the background started laughing and Michael Rymer, who STILL doesn't know that Eddie left, comes out and starts yelling at everybody because we were all laughing during the take! And then he looks around and says ….where the hell is Eddie and realizes that the whole scene was bogus!
I lol'd. I need to spend more time on the wiki!
Oh my God, that is amazing. SOMEONE FIND THIS ON YOUTUBE.
I don't think I've mentioned how much I love this cast recently, I do and it's because of stuff like this.
As I approached this episode the season, it was with a vague feeling of dread. Not because I have a particularly bad reaction to any of the content or anything, just…because it's so painful, all of it. But I didn't realize how strongly my emotions would be when I actually watched it.
From the first moment Cain was on the screen I was just filled with HATE. I don't hate anyone else in this entire show, no matter how annoying or wrong or evil they might be at times, but Cain? I fucking HATE her. I hate her in a way that feels personal, as if she had done something to me personally, or someone I love.
I'm not even sure why my reaction is that strong. It's totally out of character for me. I think possibly because the ways she is wrong and evil are so subtle and believable. She's a character whose like exists in the real world. In some ways, she reminds me of a boss I once had, whose attitude and insanity contaminated a whole workplace until finally everyone quit.
And, Mark, I'm with you that she's not even that unlikeable. She's a strong woman who is doing what she thinks she has to in a tough situation. I love the performance. But I just HATE her.
I feel that way about Umbridge from HP.
Yeah, her too. Those are pretty much the two characters I feel that way about.
So I haven't read the other comments yet, just the post (which is all so great by the way but I don't have anything to add other than my agreement.)
A few thoughts:
1. Cain is (finally!) an amazing villain. Finally someone that is truly fucked up at Umbridge proportions. Also it took me forever to realize that she was the nice white lady ™ on True Blood. I knew I'd seen her somewhere before. Damn she does an amazing job here.
2. I had been thinking about this way before I got to this episode but: the writers seem to try to get the audience to feel for Sharon by showing her suffering a lot of the time, and that makes me pretty uneasy. I was pretty glad that yesterday's episode ended on a pretty positive note and that we'd seen her do some badass things for the last couple of episodes, thought I wasn't around to comment on those. Now we're back to the suffering and man, I really don't know what to think.
on a related note:
3. The point about women in the military being raped by fellow soldiers (very often) is apt.
I don't like how all the abusers we've met so far are either on team Zarek or from the evil other new ship: ie it's not anyone that the audience has gotten to know as a 3d human being-they're either hella evil in every possible way or they're victims with no grey area and that isn't really the best representation of how it works in real life. Rapists are people that are among on our side, not just the evil other(though yes the Pegasus dudes and ladies and variations therupon are technically "on our side" but they were made to be our enemies in under an hour so for narrative purposes I am not counting them as such ).
That makes it seem like I hate this episode or something but overall I really don't, I thought the plot was amazing as was most of the characterization. But I'm just saying.
rot13 in case Mark will watch Ronald D. Moore's 2009 Virtuality pilot (which never made it to series):
Gurer'f n punenpgre va vg jub vf n fbyqvre naq unq orra encrq, naq gur pevzvanyf jrer zrzoref bs ure bja havg.
Also: as much as I hate the Pegasus people, I have to admit that "daddy's boy" was a pretty good comeback :/
but then Lee left the door wide open there.
Popping in for a random thought: the extended cuts of the episodes on the DVDs are fun, but you should always watch the TV cuts first. In my opinion, they’re nearly always better episodes.
Especially when you get to 3.09.
Um – huge spoiler. Perhaps delete or ROT13? Thanks.
I have to give the opposite quality assessment, especially for Season 4. And watching both could be boring.
And for the extended 3.09: Fyrrcvat Ryyra naq Fnz juvyr Fnhy naq Xnen gnyx vf rffragvny ivrjvat.
(I forgot not to use the title, delete the one where I use the title)
Episode titles are considered spoilers; I edited the title out of your post.
My only coherent thoughts after watching this episode the first time:
1. This show is fucking amazing.
2. Helena Cain needs to die. As soon as possible. I never could quite relate to Mark’s desire to see the earth open up and swallow a character… until now. And the asshole rapists can get swallowed up with her. Hey, at least that terrible awful Thorne died- not by getting swallowed up, but hey, not really any earth around, so I’ll take what I can get.
3. Why hasn’t every member of this cast won every acting award there is ever.
4. I still don’t love Baltar, but I can’t hate him anymore. That scene the Six on Pegasus…
5. Cliffhanger whhhyyyyyyy.
6. Seriously, BSG, WHERE HAVE YOU BENN MY WHOLE LIFE?
Several days later… and I still don’t have any coherent thoughts beyond that. This might very well be my favorite episode of the series so far.
JESUS CHRIST CAIN. She is SO CREEPY in a very well-done way.
And I've voiced my thoughts on rape-in-media before and how I usually avoid it as much as possible, but I agree with you that this is a well-done handling of rape. It isn't cheap, I think, and it's very realistic to what happens to war-prisoners in a military culture, especially when they're from a minority that is seen as lesser. But still. UGH.
He didn't say it in this episode.
Sorry! I wasn't 100% sure and I guess I should have been.
Cheez-its Christ, people, I've just reported five spoilery comments. READ THE SPOILER POLICY BEFORE YOU POST.
Ha, I was at work when I read all the spoilery comments (I was on a break!) so I couldn't report but I was seriously worried that Mark was going to see things. So thank you.
even though we so far hate admiral cain and some folks on pegasus have done some pretty shitty stuff,
CAN WE JUST LOOK AT FUCKING PEGASUS! ITS MASSIVE! IT'S MASSIVER THAN MASSIVE! ITS A BATTLESTAR ON FUCKING STEROIDS COMPARED TO GALACTIC!
i thought galactica looked bad ass and awesome up against other ships in the fleet when the series started but pegasus eclipses galactica by a long shot! im not saying i want rid of galactica, i actually like it, it's like the Little Engine That Could, but pegasus is a BAD. ASS. BEAST.
If it's sci-fi, it's for basement-dwelling human pustules who have no social skills! And if it's a show called "Battlestar Galactica" and set in space, then of course it must be rubbish! Unless it has massive ratings on a mainstream channel, because then we have to appease the nerds!
Frankly, I think the Emmy snub shows up the awards voters in a bad light, not the show itself and certainly not any of the superlative performances by its cast. BSG actually did have bits that I felt were not so well-written, but never, not ONCE in a miniseries, four seasons, two TV movies and three sets of webisodes, did a single cast member EVER fail to step up to the plate. And I'm not just talking about Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonnell and Katee, but literally everyone – Jamie Bamber, James Callis, Tricia Helfer, Aaron Douglas, Grace Park, Tahmoh Penikett, Alessandro Juliani, Michael Hogan, hell even Nicki Clyne and all the others I can't mention here – the writing might occasionally have slipped in its standards but this is one of the best ensemble casts I've ever seen in TV or film. Awards or no, that is a fact.
Pfffft, Emmys. People get those every year, but a UN summit is about 100 times cooler – and how often does anyone think those happen? I mean, how many shows are brilliant enough for the frakking United Nations to acknowledge it?
Not to mention the fact that some of my Gods of cinema and storytelling – Joss Whedon, Quentin Tarantino, Steven Spielberg and George (God only if you think of the original Star Wars) Lucas – are fans.