In the first episode of the Torchwood: Children of Earth mini-series, the Torchwood team begins to track a mysterious phenomenon: something is controlling all of the earth’s children and getting them to speak the same message at the same time, warning that, “We are coming.†Intrigued? Then it’s (finally) time for Mark to watch Torchwood.
Surprised you, didn’t I? I know that Battlestar: Galactica is going to take me a while, so I wanted to do a brief trip through another show before starting that, and the Children of Earth “season†fits perfectly into a single week. Since I finished watching Doctor Who for this site, I did manage to watch the first two seasons of Torchwood on my own. I’ve liked it so far. Perhaps not nearly as much as Doctor Who, but it’s been a fun (and fairly queer) ride so far, even if it’s not the most consistent show ever.
To make sure we’re all on the same page, anything that has aired before this series is not considered a spoiler, so feel free to discuss anything and everything pertaining to series one and two. However, anything that takes place beyond this episode will be considered a spoiler, so please be as careful as possible, ok? Thanks!
DAY ONE
More so than probably anything I’ve watched for this site, the first “day†of the Children of Earth mini-series felt like I was watching a British version of The X-Files. It’s not a secret anymore that The X-Files is my favorite television show of all time, so when another show faithfully reminds me of it, you can accept that as a compliment. At the same time, I must admit that Children of Earth seems a tad jarring in comparison with the past two series. The show has conquered wide-scale attacks, creepy imagery, and alien invasion many times before, but the quality of the writing, cinematography, and character interactions just feels…different? It’s been hard to quantify exactly what feels so different this time around. Is the writing inherently taking itself more seriously? I get a sense of that, but that seems a bit unfair to Russell T Davies. I don’t think Torchwood is a joke by any means, but it is kind of campy at times, certainly more so than Doctor Who. (Well…ok, maybe not all the time, as both Davies and Moffat have done some over-the-top entertainment quite well.)
And if you’re going to use the trope of “Children Doing Creepy Things,†there’s got to be something done to make sure it’s extra creepy. So why not have every single child on the planet suddenly stop whatever they’re doing, stare into the middle distance, and then repeat the words, “We are coming,†over and over again? That’s a good start, I think!
On top of that, “Day One†continues in more interesting character developments that also keep my attention, particularly when it comes to Ianto and Jack’s relationship. I found myself mostly enjoying Gwen Cooper over the others in terms of a favorite character, but I personally identify more with what Ianto has gone through. (Again: sort of. Obviously my life is nothing like the Torchwood team, though I would not complain if it was.) I’m not going to lie: I was pleased to see Ianto and Jack acknowledged as an actual couple for the first time, and I just wanted to curl up in a blankie and dream of puppy dogs frolicking in a field of cotton balls. Of course, things are not that easy, as Jack himself doesn’t have the same desire as Ianto to rigidly define their relationship. (When I was younger, I fell far more into Ianto’s camp on this one, for what it’s worth.)
“Day One†also introduces one of the most attractive dudes to ever grace my screen: Dr. Rupesh Pantanjali. Not apologizing for that one. Since Torchwood was down to three at this point, Rupesh’s infectious excitement seemed to make him a fairly good candidate for the next member to join Torchwood, and after Gwen met with him (and they both witnessed yet another bizarre incident with the children), it seemed pretty obvious that he would be next.
Oh, red herrings!
I don’t want this to seem like any sort of criticism of the writing, but I found myself far more intrigued by the subplot involving Lois Habiba, UNIT, and the Home Office. I have no qualms about liking this specific trope, but I’m a fan of stories that hint at a larger conspiracy by giving us tiny, seemingly unimportant clues that then get larger and more out of control. Hey, I’m a simple dude sometimes! Of course Lois was going to use her superior’s login to “spy†on what was going on the office, but what does it all mean??? In a way, the Torchwood team were actually behind on everything throughout all of “Day One.†They acted mostly as the audience up until the UNIT plot began to reveal a lot more of the story to us. Because of this and my insatiable desire to know these stories since I watch things in such an unnatural manner, I found myself aching to return to Lois and John Frobisher’s stories.
Well, until the team found out about Timothy White. I am a bit tired of the idea of using someone in a mental institution to solve crimes. Not only has it appeared in science fiction and drama a quarter of a billion times, it just seems silly that people who are mentally ill can only appear in shows like this if they exist solely to aid people in an investigation, only to be forgotten or then murdered later on. To be fair, though, I did find the character of Timothy White to be played believably and with a dash of charm to him. I was also completely fascinated by the revelation that he was one of the boys on the bus in the cold open of the show. If all those children were taken, how did he get away? I wondered. I think White’s / MacDonald’s story line could have been completely forgettable, but I adored that Gwen treated him with respect and trust, as I imagine that Clem / Timothy had not received that sort of attention in a long while. I think that was part of the reason Clem was comfortable enough to tell Gwen that she was pregnant. Which…WHAT THE HELL. That came out of nowhere!
But how was all of this connected? We learn that a group of aliens named “The 456,†after the frequency they had previously sent information on back in 1965, appear to be the ones behind these messages and child control. But what are they doing this for? Why use children? Since Clem escaped, is he susceptible to the messages as well? Whatever the answer is, the show does an incredibly job showing us just how serious this situation is. Even though I felt as if they were speaking in code, the conversation between Frobisher and Mr. Dekker was electrifying. Bless Peter Capaldi, who played Frobisher, for having such an expressive face when acting. I didn’t know what a blank page was, but in the moment Frobisher realized he’d have to ultimately be responsible for it, he looked as if he was about to throw up. What was he being told to do???
I now feel that Lois is going to have a much bigger part in the coming episodes. When she discovers that the blank page is an order for assassination, we never see her actually contact Jack to warn him of the coming danger. Instead, I get all sad to discover that Rupesh was actually a spy the whole time, purposely sent to infiltrate Torchwood. (Was he working for the Home Office? Or another organization? I don’t know quite yet, unless I was just awful at paying attention.) I also found myself still shocked every time that Jack Harkness is murdered, even though I know he can’t die. Is this silly? Yes. 100% absurd. I flinched both times that he was shot, which is a ludicrous concept. IT DOESN’T MATTER, MARK, JUST CALM DOWN. why does my brain work this way
Then Rupesh is shot (THIS SCENE COMPLETELY GUTTED ME. He is so sad to realize he is disposable!!!), and some woman named Johnson orders her men to put something inside of Jack. A homing device? Something to infiltrate Torchwood with?
The end scene of “Day One†(before the chaos) is touching, as Gwen confirms her pregnancy and both Ianto and Jack are ecstatic to hear the news. The best part, though, is the fact that Jack doesn’t think twice about telling her that she doesn’t have to worry about her position in Torchwood. That is pretty awesome, if you ask me.
BUT OH WAIT THERE IS A BOMB IN JACK’S STOMACH AND…ok, I’m not fooling myself this time. He can’t die! Right? Right? But has he been blown up before? Is this an exception??? How does he put himself together after that? Oh, christ, maybe he can’t survive. Either way, HOLY HELL, WHAT A KISS. Right? I mean, imagine some guy you just started dating kisses you like that before he…um…blows up? Ok, I can’t imagine that. STILL. Why blow up Torchwood? Is the Home Office or the MI5 interested in allowing this alien invasion to take place? I AM CONFUSED.
Seriously, though, what a cliffhanger. I’m guessing all these episodes will have them, won’t they? “We are coming….back.†OH GOD THEY WHERE HERE BEFORE WHAT IS GOING ON.
THOUGHTS
- Wow, the scene between Ianto and his sister Rhiannon was both really adorable and painfully awkward. I totally get that Rhiannon was well meaning and cared for her brother, but I have personally been through that exact scenario when someone pressures you into outing yourself in a way that seems so entitled. As if that person deserves to know your business. I’m glad the scene didn’t ignore that, but UNCOMFORTABLE CITY, right?
- Are we going to meet the other three characters who were on the blank page?
- JACK HAS A DAUGHTER AND A GRANDSON. wtf.
- omg if martha jones is in this i will die I LOVE HER SO MUCH.
- I think it’s kind of neat that in the Torchwood universe, the world actually believes in aliens. Well….half of it, that is.
- “Is now a good time to tell you I lost the car?†I’m guessing YES.
ATTENTION AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER FANS ATTENDING COMIC-CON
Who wants to meet up during/after the Legend of Korra panel? It would be fun to see who we've been posting with for the last three months. Will anyone be dressed up so we can just say, "Meet by the Suki doing the Mark Watches dance"? (You would have to come up with a Mark Watches dance.)
CAN WE DO THIS.
Also I will be at the Avatar fan panel a couple hours before this, too.
Maybe the best thing to do is to gather by that coffee cart in the lobby by the Sails Pavilion? There are always people hanging out there. I guess everyone knows what you look like so that should be enough? Work your Twitter magic and get back to me!
Unfortunately I was not able to get a ticket for Comic-Con, but I do live in San Diego and I will be downtown this weekend doing other nerdy things (LIKE ATTENDING THE LIVE NERDIST PODCAST WITH MATT SMITH AND KAREN GILLIAN OH JEEZY CREEZY IM EXCITED).
So let me know if you guys go out to eat or anything because I would love to meet up
Aaaaah that sounds like it will be awesome! Probably more awesome than the panel, which I hope will also be awesome.
I haven't firmed up all my evening plans, so I have no idea what will happen.
!!!
WANT
I WILL BE THERE, YOU WILL KNOW ME BY MY RED SCOOTER
Hi!! We've missed you over the last month!
You will be there? With a red scooter? Like Haruko?
Do the Doctor's "drunken giraffe" dance, that should be a good recognisable sign… 😀
I won't be coming (being in Europe and all), but I'll think of you guys and eagerly await news about LOK on the Avatar Wiki. 🙂
Ugh, I wish I could, but I can't, due to be no where near you guys.
HAVE FUN THOUGH. I want a full report.
When Children of Earth aired in the US for the first time, it aired each episode one night apart, so if you had avoided UK spoilers, you got to watch it all in a week, It was fun.
If I remember correctly it aired that way in the UK too. An awesome week for telly, that was! And it made it much more accessible for mainstream viewers, so EVERYONE was talking about it 🙂
Yeah Children of Earth was a major television event and got fantastic ratings in the UK. Which is a major achievement considering it started on BBC3 moved to BBC2 and only made the jump to BBC 1 on that series and the ratings just tripled.
TORCHWOOD!
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THE PRETTY!
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I haven't watched CoE in a really long time so I'll just be gif spamming.
Torchwood gifs you say …
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What where is that top one from I need to know BAMF!Ianto should happen more often
It's from 'Meat' in series 2.
That episode. THAT EPISODE. I was more disturbed by Meat than almost any other episode. (The other episode? 'Countrycide'. GOOD LORD.)
Mark will you be watching the BSG miniseries first?
Also I just have to share this.
Harry Potter in pirated foreign subtitles
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Yep, the mini-series will be first! I've been instructed that is the best way to experience the series.
It's the only way without being hopelessly confused.
I totally watched the first half of season one before I saw the miniseries and yes, I was hopelessly confused. I still remember enjoying it though, I just had no idea who the frack anyone was. 😛
I have to say, I have a LOT of awesome BSG gifs I now have to hold back for fear of spoilers! I have such first world problems.
Can't stop loling at this gif.
"Melon" is my new go-to insult.
Also, apparently Dobby's verbal tic is no longer speaking in the third person, but instead speaking in Twitter-isms.
Stoned melons omg that is the best thing ever
Also, "Fody killed my parents…. nothing serious."
ROFL this is my new favourite gif
HAYHUFF PAFF
Loooooooooooooooove
Baaah, that's nothing. 😛
Really badly translated English subtitles to some Asian version of The Two Towers (obviously spoilers if you haven't seen the film! *looks at Mark*) Warning: May cause serious abdominal pain due to uncontrollable fits of laughter… 😉
Is the miniseries also the first episode/movie of the new BSG series? I've already watched that (plus one other episode). I really liked it, but am I bit annoyed by my dad, who i watched it with. He's like "Oh, its just 45 minutes, you'll be able to get to work in no time…" three and a half hour episode. That was a movie.
Yes, that's the miniseries. The first episode of the BSG TV series is called "33" and if you've seen it, then you know why.
Lmao, "Happy hours go fast" That it does, that it does.
I can't stop thinking of Lucius as the Count now.
"Seven Horcruxes! Ah ah ah!"
omg that gif has killed me, I am laughing so hard I'm crying.
Oh gods and godlings, I am having reactions to every single word that you are saying but I can’t say anything because spoilers are evil and, Oh, Mark. YOU ARE NOT PREPARED.
I’m very glad that you’re making this quick divergence.
What a pleasant surprise! To my mind, COE comprise the best episodes I have ever seen on television. Better even than the best episodes of Firefly, Dollhouse, Doctor Who and Warehouse 13. That's my stance and I'm sticking to it.
Oh, that last scene! <3 <3
Weeee! I haven't watched this in ages so it's lovely to have an excuse to do so again! I didn't care that much for Torchwood (I never really got attached to the characters somehow? It just didn't click for me) but I thought this miniseries thingy was a cut above. I know there's another Torchwood thing airing now but I haven't gotten round to seeing that yet either. I am such a bad nerd.
But hey, look what came in the post today! GPOY.
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I do like your habit of breaking up long shows with a review of something a little shorter. It gives a nice break.
I'm still really looking forward to Mark Watches Battlestar Galactica though! You have NO IDEA how excited I am. It's like a big shiny unwrapped gift in my immediate future. 😀
Awesome shirt! Really, really cool.
(You should try checking out the new Torchwood. Not sure if it'll be more in the vein of season 1 & 2 or CoE, but I think the latter, though its hard to tell so early in the game.)
But… it's not a phone box. It's a police box… I don't get it.
Yeah, but he does say 'phonebox' in the episode. 😛
Too true. Owen is my favourite as well. All his storylines are just magnificent, before and after the "accident".
Even though CoE is the best Torchwood series, the one thing that didn't make it so for me was just that lack of Owen goodness in it. I Iike it, but I'd like it even better with some Owen. There's still Ianto at least.
WHOA I TOTALLY JUST GOT THAT SHIRT IN THE MAIL YESTERDAY TOO. Weird.
No wait, except mine is blue. Same design though 😀
Can I first take a moment to sob over the events of the last several episodes of season 2? Because that was heartwrenchingly sad. Also, Owen is by far the most interesting character in Torchwood, especially after his… accident.
Also OMG I'M SO EXCITED YOU'RE WATCHING THIS! I've been rewatching Torchwood with my wife to get her caught up, so we can watch Miracle Day together. Ugh this series is so good.
I watched CoE ages ago but have just recently watched S1 and S2. I agreeeee Owen's story was so fascinating to me.
I love how in the DW/Torchwood episode, being made immortal is just an 'accident'.
There was a wonderful line in the Wikipedia entry for Martha Jones stating "Martha briefly joins the Cardiff-based Torchwood Three as its medical officer following the death of Owen Harper (Burn Gorman), but later leaves the organisation in the episode "A Day in the Death" once she is satisfied that Owen is fit to return to duty"
Only in Torchwood!
Word. Seriously, I love Owen and every storyline of his. The guy playing him is amazing.
Yes! I'm so excited for you to cover this… if only because I'm not actually that interested in BSG, so this is another week of reviews before I likely peace out for awhile. But also because this is a fantastic little miniseries and you are SO NOT PREPARED.
Anyway, you're right in that this series feels very different from the previous two; they disposed of a lot of the camp and went straight for the srs bzns here, probably because they only have five episodes. No time for silly! I think they were also trying to distinguish the show as its own thing, rather than a pale imitation of Doctor Who, which the first two seasons did often feel like. I didn't watch any of Torchwood until a few months ago because I'd caught one episode on TV– (2-3, I think, the one with the WWI soldier) and… it was just kind of boring. I didn't know anything about the characters besides Jack, and the plot didn't grab me. Watching the series all the way through helped me to know and care about the characters, and I was frequently surprised when they took a silly premise and treated it reasonably seriously… but Torchwood just cannot pull off the stuff Doctor Who does, because Jack, unlike the Doctor, is not a walking plot device armed with plot devices.
I think Children of Earth was a big attempt to change that feel and see if they could do something much bigger than they had previously tackled. I think they succeeded. Of course, this season apparently imploded the fandom, but it also was the first one to get some critical attention. So… your mileage may vary, I guess.
(They do seem to be continuing this direction of a more serious theme/miniseries vs. monster-of-the-week with Miracle Day.)
I suppose now is as good a time as any to rec Torchwood fanfic.
Trying to Communicate by sam_storyteller/copperbadge is some wonderful crackfic. It's pretty short, and is a good intro to fanfic if you're scared of the general idea of fanfiction.
(Contains spoilers through 2×07.)
And I have no comments on the actual show right now, except to say I will always miss Tosh.
I love that story. It's such a long time since I read any Torchwood fic.
Tosh
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Her death just broke me.
Copperbadge's fic was pretty much the only reason I retained any engagement with Torchwood pre-CoE. And "Trying to Commnunicate" is such a classic that Gareth David-Lloyd apparently read it. 😛
THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE CONTAINS UNHEALTHY AMOUNTS OF NERDY NITPICKING
Mark, I noticed on your Twitter feed that you added a colon to Battlestar Galactica, and I recall seeing this happen before. It's no big deal, but I thought I'd just tell you that there's no colon in the title, although I can't blame you after you just spent months reviewing the colon-licious (Upon reread, this word is rife with disgusting and hilarious misunderstanding potential) Avatar: The Last Airbender. Anyway, so excited for BSG.
More on topic, I've never watched Torchwood, having heard nothing but bad reviews for the first two seasons. But I've also heard people praise Children of Earth, so now I'm conflicted. Anybody who's watched all of this series: Should I just read a summary of the first two seasons and jump right into CoE, or should I just suck it up and watch it all?
I think you can jump right in with CoE. I watched it before I saw the first two seasons of Torchwood or a single episode of Doctor Who and still enjoyed the hell out of it. The story works pretty well on its own. You don't need to know the backstory of the other shows.
That being said… Yay! Mark, I'm so excited you are watching this! Question: Are you planning on reviewing Miracle Day when this is finished?
S1 and 2 are campy. I personally find appeal to that, since campy sci-fi is kinda its own genre, and something I'm familiar with. In contrast, CoE loses a lot of the camp.
Most of the bad reviews of the first two seasons are probably about the camp, and the fact that it's sort of unfocused. I personally think there's similarity between these two seasons of TW and S2 of New Who.
So if you're the sort of person who likes their scifi more srs bznz (ala BSG) and doesn't want to watch the more campy scifi, I say go ahead and skip watching the first two seasons.
But if you can abide the camp, I honestly think you might as well watch the whole thing. I suppose I might call S1 and 2 bad, but it's bad in a sort of charming way, if that makes sense. I like those seasons, is what I'm saying.
Hm, if that's the case, I think I'll go ahead and watch the whole series. I'd only heard vague insults of S1 and 2, so I wasn't sure what exactly made it so unlikable to so many people.
ROT13'd for Buffy Expectation Spoilers:
V'z bar bs gubfr jrveqbrf jub npghnyyl qbrfa'g svaq Frnfba Bar bs Ohssl nyy gung onq, fb gur pnzc snpgbe fubhyqa'g or n ceboyrz sbe zr.
Well part of the problem is the campiness but the biggest problem in those first two years especially the first is that they confused sex and violence with being adult television. An alien who kills people through sexual intercourse definitely isn't mature television.
But the extra sex and violence is a bonus for viewer entertainment!
With s1 especially there's not a lot of consistency of tone – and they've admitted they made it too fast. They took a bit longer over s2, so it's tonally more together. So don't expect to get a sense of the series from just a few episodes – a common reaction seems to be to hate some episodes and really like others. Although, predictably, there's no real agreement about which ones are the bad ones. Oh and they had all sorts of problems with the HD cameras on the early episodes of the (already low budget) series one – so the look does improve in later episodes and in series two (when they moved channels and got a bit more money).
Also, although the storytelling is sometimes a bit slapdash, I think a lot of it comes down to expectations (especially from Doctor Who fans), personal taste and how much people liked the characters – so you can't suppose that you'll agree with other people's views on it. Also, people are generally more vocal when feeling negative than when they feel positive – so that can give the impression of more people disliking something than actually do.
For what it's worth, I've always enjoyed it – although I don't think it's perfect TV. And both series come to 26 episodes – so its not like there's an enormous amount to catch up on.
Children of Earth was the first time that RTD could really focus on the writing and one of his decisions was to change the format quite a lot. He felt that they'd done "monster of the week" sufficiently in the first two series. For that reason it's quite a different type of drama in its third series.
Pretty much this. It could certainly be a bit odd, and tonally over the place. I think the main criticisms come from;
1) Camp. It has it sometimes.
2) A bit of mood whipplash, both in comparison with DW and episode by episode basis.
3) Some very odd premises….the sex alien comes to mind. That was a weird episode.
4) Personal taste.
Personally, I enjoyed it, but it was hardly a fave series, and Season 3 certainly took it up a notch.
I find the problems with S1 and S2 go waaay beyond campiness. (And please, since when do Doctor Who watchers have problems with camp?) I don't want to start arguments here about the merits of pre-CoE Torchwood, but…seriously, I found the show bad to the point of being morally troubling, and I really don't say that often.
Save yourself the pain and just watch CoE. There are a few isolated earlier episodes that aren't terrible, but honestly, you don't need them to understand or appreciate CoE at all.
I think its worth saying for anyone who wants to do the whole thing from the beginning, you can bail at any point and skip ahead without really missing anything much. Children of Earth is something of a spoiler for series two (but without any detail) but no more than The Stolen Earth and Journey's End are. The premise is pretty simple and recapped in Children of Earth and in s3 & 4 of Doctor Who.The slightly more detailed version is in the opening episode (Everything Changes), which you'll probably end up watching anyway.
So, for anyone who hasn't watched, I'd say give s1 a go and if you don't like it, skip ahead to s2 and if you still don't like it, skip to Children of Earth. Honestly, I don't think there's any of knowing for sure what your reaction will be without watching at least some episodes. For a slightly more gradualist approach, you could skip to the mid-point of s1 (episode 7 or 8) to see if it has picked up. S2 has more running (and interlinked) stories, but you could skip ahead to episode 6, where a big arc kicks off.
Having said all of that, you don't really lose out by watching Children of Earth first and then going back to the first two series, especially if you've already watched Doctor Who.
Yeah, considering your ROT13 comment, I think you'll be fine. I'm another fan who liked all seasons of Torchwood, although they are different. You might too.
Well Season 2 has Captain John Hart, and esp. his intro, which was awesome. And s1 had the Real Jack Harkness which has some of the most heart breaking moments ever.
Though in general, I'd say that s2 is better than s1, even Ianto is slightly less boring in s2 than he was in s1.
You can jump straight in. It's a stand alone mini-series although there's a couple references and stuff but nothing that will ruin you experience or hamper your understanding of it.
i watched CoE after being exposed to Doctor Who, then went back to watch S1&2. If you wanna follow Mark Watches you can totally just dive right in.
I think it's worth watching once. There are a few good stories, but it really is more mindless entertainment (albeit with a darker tone) than Doctor Who. The whole show can pretty much be summed up by this icon:
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Oooooh Mark. You are so not even close to prepared for this. I loved CoE, but I haven't been able to rewatch it.
I am SO SO SO psyched for you to start Battlestar Galactica. I am such a ridiculous fan of that show that I can't even. Some of my FAVORITE CHARACTERS EVER GAAAAAAAAAH.
I wasn't planning on going to the Avatar panel at Comic-Con, but if that's where we're meeting up I guess I'll have to work it into my schedule 😛
Ah Children of Earth: I love you and hate you at the same time. Still think it's the best think RTD had ever written, with the possible exception of Queer as Folk.
Indeed! This was where I went "omg, Russel T Davies, you actually CAN write well! … but apparently only when you have no budget." Further proven by "Midnight."
Oh, is THAT why Miracle Day is so terrible?
I'm not giving up on Miracle Day just yet. We've only seen two episodes, and if the first two episodes were rather slow, well, I understand they have to introduce the plot and a bunch of new characters all at once. If I'm not on the edge of my seat yet, well… it's only been two episodes.
I don't even care enough to watch the second one. That is an utter failure on the part of the first episode. Which was crap. And written by RTD. I do not love Jack Harkness quite enough to watch something unpleasant solely because he'll be onscreen some of the time.
*shrug* I thought it was enjoyable. Honestly, I'm at least equally interested in the characters of Esther, Dr. Juarez, and Gwen as well as Jack. Also, one of my favorite actresses from Dollhouse showed up in episode 2, which was a pleasant surprise. Like I said, I've seen a number of complaints, but I wasn't that bothered.
I'm with you on this. I don't enjoy Esther (clearly she's in love with that CIA guy and it's really grating), but I kind of love Dr. Juarez for being a badass doctor/scientist and Dichen Lachmann <33333333 Plus, I find the exploration of the consequences of immortality pretty fascinating.
I feel as if we're treading into spoiler territory, but I'm not sure if he intends to watch MD.
Yeah, fourthing this!
Yay Children of Earth. In some ways I think Torchwood and the Sarah Jane Adventures (at least watch the two stories with Tennant and Matt Smith) are superior to Doctor Who. They're far from perfect but Doctor Who because it can do anything often feels uneven and somewhat disconnected. Whereas the spin-offs are both grounded which at least makes them feel more consistent.
Shit gets real very quickly in Children of Earth which is a good thing considering it's a five episode mini-series. The bait and switch with Patanjali is particularly clever. Always subvert your audiences expectations. Especially as by now we should know that anyone can and will die in this show.
Peter Capaldi as Frobisher (easily the best thing about Children of Earth) and Paul Copley as Clem are great additions to the cast with Cush Jumbo as Lois Habiba being instantly likeable as the newbie out of her element at the home office.
And finally [spoken trough a billion prepubescents]:
WE ARE COMING BACK TO MAKE SURE MARK IS NEVER PREPARED.
Yea! Children of Earth! This is some of the best science fiction on film, ever. A lot of that is due to the decision to go with a five-episode miniseries rather than a traditional "season," but full credit to Russell Davies for pulling out all the stops. It is simply amazing how high they…. OK, better not say that.
Mark, you are so, so, so, so, SO UPREPARED.
Oh, I should also say…. I watched Children of Earth knowing ALL the spoilers ahead of time, because I spend way too much time on TV Tropes and I had heard a lot of fan chatter when COE aired originally (at the time, not watching the show, I blissfully read the spoilers to see what the fuss was over). Despite knowing how everything was going to happen, the show still succeeded in punching me in the emotional face. Several times. So I'm especially excited to see the reaction when you walk into this with no idea what's going on.
I knew everything that was going to happen, too. (Because of the exact reason, tropers unite!) So I can second your story.
Thirding! I spend too many hours on TV Tropes … but then, who doesn't?
I knew all about the show, but I still sat down with it over the course of a day and had a great time. It really was more about the journey than the destination.
I had a similar experience. I heard a spoiler that I didn't believe, because I didn't know that COE existed! So I found it and watched it. Needless to say the spoiler ruined the end for me, but that is the nature of spoilers 🙁
I dunno, spoilers usually don't bother me. If the story is good enough, it shouldn't matter that you know what's going to happen, because it's all about the how and the when. See: Shakespeare. You know the story, but if it's a good performance it'll be enjoyable anyway, and there's a lot of ways to reinterpret the material.
In Children of Earth, I knew what was going to happen but I was still on the edge of my seat like "… they'll do something else, right? Right? I know they won't but I really really want them to do something else ohgod why D:" Like I said, punch in the emotional face.
Great to see you finally watch this. I was expecting it since you mentioned in the suggestions comments (which not a lot of people seem to have noticed) and I am very excited to see you discover it.
Johnson mentioned the reason for blowing up the Hub after shooting Jack: they believe that his immortality is linked to it.
WTF is this totally unexpected and wonderful surprise??? 😀
Mark, you're in for a FANTASTIC ride with "The Children of Earth". The first two series of Torchwood were (IMHO) a mix of a couple of good episodes, some outright terrible episodes, and mostly just harmless "meh" ones, but COE had me screaming at my laptop: "FUCK YOU, RTD, WHY CAN'T YOU WRITE THIS WELL FOR DOCTOR WHO???"
Seriously, YOU ARE NOT PREPARED. It's brilliant. And awful. And genius.
FUNNY STORY! I have watched all of Torchwood except CoE. Because… of no real reason, really, except that I was spoiled about it and I often have trouble watching things after I'm spoiled for them. But, since I actually have time this week, maybe I will watch along with MW and get over myself!
(Bawww I didn't get caught up with you guys in time for the Avatar finale bawww ;_; I'm still working my way through reading the season 3 reviews/comments)
But yes, the best thing about Torchwood (that I have seen) is when Martha shows up and is the most amazing person ever.
I squeed so much when Marth showed up in Season 2. That was mostly the reason I started watching in the first place.
Trufax: Torchwood would be 100% more effective with Martha on their team full-time.
Children of Earth! Oh, man, what a series.
Waaay back after S1 of Doctor Who, when it was announced that there would be a spinoff for Captain Jack, I was so thrilled, I can't even. Without going into details, Torchwood ended up being a massive disappointment to me on almost every level, and by the end of its second season I'd pretty much dismissed it as the idiot child of the Whoniverse and vowed not to be conned into watching another episode.
Except then Children of Earth started airing, and everyone thought it was awesome. Not just "good for Torchwood", a standard I'd invented just so I could get through the first two seasons, but actually, properly good television. And I watched, and…it really was, for reasons I'm not going to go into until you finish watching because I don't remember which episode had which events at this point.
I will say that Peter Capaldi is a treasure, and I think I liked his performance best of all the very fine work being done in the series. Random trivia: Did you know that Capaldi used to be in a punk rock band with Craig Ferguson?
With someone as…well, comfortable as Jack, it would be a little weird if he didn't have kids, don't you think? XD
Good surprise, Mark! I really do think that you'll like this series. The first two seasons of Torchwood can certainly be a bit odd, and I know what you mean. Children of Earth seems so much larger. Fresher. Crisper. I can't say why. Maybe its because the stakes seem higher, there's less camp, and you're able to keep everything on one path and take it slower by focusing on a single plot. Not sure, but it definitely makes for a better viewing experience.
I especially love seeing interactions in this world where aliens are acknolwedged to be real. Earth has been invaded hundreds of times by this point; and sure UNIT or Torchwood or the Doctor have kept most of those underwraps, but some have gotten out. So something Torchwood could ask is what does this reveal do on society? Does it effect religion? Personal belief? Government protocol? Of course it is, and I love that there's a medium that can address the ramification of the Doctor's and others' actions.
Wonderful, Mark! I'm really glad you're doing this one. In many ways it suits the Mark Watches format really well – since it was designed to be seen on consecutive days. They made a point of saying that they did things with the story telling based on the idea that the previous episodes would be fresh in the minds of the viewers in a way they wouldn't be if they'd been a week apart.
Also, although Torchwood s1 & s2 are fun and all, I think there's more to get your teeth into as a reviewer here. So this seems like a good compromise between staying in the Whoniverse forever, with all that other great TV waiting for you, and not writing about it at all.
What really strikes me with this episode is how much RTD likes unresolved awkwardness – its full of people being slightly or very much at cross purposes with each other. There's something quite interesting he said once (and I'm paraphrasing) is that a rookie mistake with dialogue is assume that when people talk they listen to and understand what the other person is saying and then reply to it. In reality, people are often much more interested in what they have to say than in what other people are saying.
Anyway, not much else to say at this point for fear of spoilers,but it's going to be a proper ride.
Oh, one last, greedy thing: is there any chance of some more Classic Who reviews, even if only occasionally? I'd love to see more of your take on Who in all its forms – but also on a style of TV that doesn't exist any more.
Yeah agreed I'd love to see some more classic who up here!
Gwen's my favourite character, too, though I love Rhys and Ianto lots.
I was also bummed about Rupesh. I think this is when I got the idea that brown people are like the redshirts of the Whoniverse, they always seem to last an episode (w the exception of that character on SJA who is awesome.)
Yeah I know I'm kind of a broken record but that's all I can comment on now. I just watched the BSG miniseries though and I'm stoked for next week.
Lois, Martha, Mickey….
Sorry I was referring more specifically to south asian characters. There are a lot of really well developed black characters in the whoniverse with interesting story arcs, I just wish I could see more south asian characters with the same treatment, though it seems to be getting better lately.
I always found that really, really weird – I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't South Asians the largest racial minority group in Britain? I know I'm biased because I lived on the East End quite close to Banglatown when I was in London, but still.
I think that's about right. It's even worse on other british shows I've seen yet for some reason there seems to be a lot better in British film. Or maybe it's just the movies I watch.
In Canada there seems to be more south asians in media and politics, but a lack of east asians who are a much older community so that's kind of weird. But it's kind of a crappy comparison since Canadian pop culture barely exists.
I am extremely fond of pretty much everyone on SJA, and it's always made me happy that there were awesome, important characters of color on that show. I'm going to miss it so much.
There's still the episodes completed before Elizabeth's death which will be shown later this year.
I kind of didn't want to answer this for fear of things escalating in a bad direction (not because of you hassibah but because these debates seem to trigger overly defensive responses with the defenders unaware of when they cross a line into being inconsiderate about experiences they haven't taken the time to understand). Still, I'm interested in identity and creativity, so here's a response.
I'm assuming by "brown people" you mean people of South Asian descent (usually the Indian subcontinent), which excludes the African counter-examples. It's tricky because once you start to see a pattern it's hard to un-see it. Subsidiary characters tend to die a lot in the Whoniverse so the maths suggests that when you combine that with some diversity in casting a pattern is reasonably likely. Nasreen, from The Hungry Earth is the other example I can think of.
I'm not sure if you find it just generally annoying or your making a connection between a character dying and what the show is saying about their worth (and by extension, the worth of their ethnicity). Personally, I find it hard to read Whoniverse shows as attaching an eternal morality to death, in the sense that anyone could be said to deserve to die in the show. On the other hand, though, killing off a character may suggest that they're disposable (although the the death could also be important). In Doctor Who in particular, though, even characters who survive and episode probably won't be seen again – and there are an awful lot of deaths. That's less relevant in a five part story where the Asian character doesn't make it past the first episode, though.
To me, rather than worrying to much about deaths, I think they should look at the focus of the whoniverse so far – there's a pretty big sample now. You can't necessarily go for a load of diversity in any given episode but you can look at the cumulative effect and adjust accordingly. Without doing a detailed analysis, I'd say that Asians in general could do with some more representation in major roles and that in Doctor Who particularly we could do with some no Euro-centric stories. Both of those ought to be spurs to creativity rather than limits on it.
Still it wouldn't hurt to consider re-writes or recastings to avoid an Asian character dying, at least a few times. I'm not sure that it represents a choice (either conscious or unconscious) on the part of the programme makers that Asian characters have tended to die, although obviously they haven't actively avoided that outcome. So I don't see it as something that's bound to happen in the future.
That was a bit waffley – I hope it makes some sense. Hopefully this won't get into one of those difficult discussions (read the rules people!) – although I'm glad we don't have negative voting any more. I am just thinking aloud on this – so feel free to shoot me down. And anyone who does get involved – be aware of where the privilege and power lies in all of this – and of the potential for upset.
Yeah by brown I meant south asian descent.
But it's not just the fact that they die but that they're also short lived and often one dimensional bad dudes, or boring okay dudes we don't think much about, wheras for example there are a lot of black characters on the show that are 3 dimensional people with actual story arcs that people are invested in and care about. Which is wonderful, I'd just like to see more of the same with the british asians.
I'm really happy about Nasreen and Rani but they are more recent additions to their shows, though Nasreen was a one-off and we really have no idea if we'll ever see her again or not. Don't get me wrong though it's definitely an improvement and definitely welcome. Also, that said, the Whoniverse seems to do a lot better wrt this and POC in general than most british tv I've seen.
Anyways it's something I've been thinking about a lot more as I've been watching a lot of british tv shows lately and most shows seem to have no asians at all. I find it kind of weird since I've seen a lot of british movies and I know there are asian actors in the UK; that I can name more south asian characters and actors on american tv shows than I can on british tv is really weird to me considering they are a way bigger part of the population there.
To me fair RTD basically turned Torchwood over to other people for the first two season, then took up the reins for CoE and gave us seriously AWESOME TELEVISION And it shows. Aside from the production values (probably partly owed to having only five eps here and the year of the specials over on DW) these have RTD written all over them in my opinion (and not just because they're AWESOME).
As excited as I was for you to watch BSG I'll gladly hold off on that for a week to see your thoughts on this. Also this is basically the way everyone watched it at first, as a week long event.
So much wtfery and chaos. I love Children of Earth.
Omg Children if the Earth bsjqvah;jskka YOU ARE NOT PREPARED, MARK, OMG.
By any chance will you be watching Season 4 of Torchwood which just started? I hope you do but if you don't I understand (time and all), but seriously, I need someplace to chat about it and my tumblr's not cutting it so I'll be very a happy if you decide to do weekly liveblogs of if. If not, still got BSG to look forward too.
If you have a livejournal, you should join us over at tw_gleeclub! We have a liveblog and reaction post after each episode airs in the US, and the same for the UK airing. There's always some great discussion, and the atmosphere is really friendly and welcoming to new people.
Awesome. I've also been looking for somewhere to discuss it but they don't have much on the LJ Doctor Who community, and the majority of those discussions have been pretty negative.
Er, it would help if the URL I pasted in to my last comment actually showed up correctly. : That should have been http://tw-gleeclub.livejournal.com/
This is really wonderful, Mark. I'm a fan who really liked Torchwood, even the campy first two seasons, and I am looking forward to your reactions to CoE.
gwen is your favorite character? she used to be my favorite, but then she cheated on her boyfriend. i started to forgive her when she told him…only for it to turn out that she had given him that amnesia drug and was only telling him to make herself feel better! i havnt seen this third season yet, but itll take a LOT to get her back to “favorite character” status
I've been trying to overcome how hard I judge Gwen for her earlier treatment of Rhys. I feel like I'm being unfair to her, but I find it hard to get past.
Cheating on your boyfriend is hardly the worst thing you can do in the whole world. If it was, a substantial percentage of the female population would be horrible people, and I have warmer feelings for humanity than that.
I have to say I forgave Gwen for it pretty easily. She was going through a lot, joining Torchwood, and had no one to talk to about it except the actual Torchwood team itself. The team is this sort of dramatic, hardworking, insular group and it's almost inevitable everyone will sleep with each other. And… everybody does.
Though it made her feel guilty, It was easy to keep the secret from Rhys because she was already keeping a bigger secret from him… Torchwood itself. The secrets she was keeping from him were creating distance in the relationship, and I can see how it was a huge relief to be able to tell him about Torchwood.
I've been with the same guy for 8 years, and I've kept exactly one secret from him. I kept it for 4 months, and it felt like it was killing something inside me that whole time. This was after I watched Torchwood, but I think I would have lots of sympathy for Gwen now.
Roofieing your husband KINDA is though. I'd rather she just not have told him at all.
And why does something have to be the worst thing you can do to warrant being disliked?
Torchwood! I haven't seen Children of Earth since it first aired, but I know what I'll be putting into my comment for the finale. And I just want to say that I liked series 2 of Torchwood much more than series 1, I love John Hart and the back stories and Rhys and everything.
And I am actually really sad that the Hub got blown up. I went to Cardiff in June and went to the bay where Torchwood was filmed and it was so cool being there, and going round to where they were, I wish they were still filming there.
I LOVE EVERYTHING THAT CHILDREN OF EARTH CHOOSES TO BE.
It is a wonderful bit of television, and I think it's one of the most brilliant pieces of science fiction television I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. I watched the first two series of Torchwood and was firmly meh about it. But then RTD came back and took full control of Torchwood and wrote CoE after not being super involved in s1 and 2 of Torchwood, AND I LOVE IT. From this very first episode, it just sucked me in.
IT WAS EVERYTHING I NEVER KNEW I WANTED FROM TORCHWOOD.
From the opening sequence, it was all just so deliciously unsettling. Kids being taken on a bus out into the country and then… consumed by a bright light? And then in the present the kids are freezing and staring blankly ahead. SO CREEPY and the perfect mood setter. And then later on when the children start screaming and then talking in unison? SO SO SO CREEPY. I love it.
I've always been very fond of Gwen, and this episode just further cemented that. Her phonecall with Rhys was so adorable (especially the bit about going into England). She was so kind in her interactions with Timothy too. Being a bit excited and also scared about having a baby. Idk. I just loved her in this episode.
Seeing Jack with his daughter was kind of heart breaking. Broken family relationships make me sad.
I loved the scene with Ianto and his sister and her family. I never really connected with Ianto in the first two series, but seeing him around his family made him seem like more of a real person. I think it showed off RTD's skill at writing for characters. He really can bring characters to life through dialogue.
I was convinced that Rupesh was being set up as a new member of Torchwood. And I was all excited because, like you, I thought he was really good looking. But then LOL NO. Apparently I am very easily taken in by writing.
Lois is lovely. And I love the whole dodgy government overtone that her storyline provides, along with the potential for government espionage. I mean, the whole blank page thing is so corny, BUT WHATEVER I LOVE IT. It is corny in a delicious way.
Also, I love the name Frobisher. And I think the actor is portraying that character brilliantly as the slightly stodgy civil servant/government official who is being forced to deal with this extraordinary situation.
Anyway, I love this episode. I think it is a brilliant set up for this miniseries. It establishes a mood, introduces quite a few different mysteries and plot threads, and lets you know that you can't expect anything to go like you think it will. And this is some of RTD's strongest writing. The plotting is tight. The characters are well drawn. LOVE IT.
Frobisher is also the name of a shapeshifting penguin who accompanied the Sixth Doctor in the Doctor Who comics.
JUST SO YOU KNOW.
OH MY GOD. I was thinking the other day "Mark MUST WATCH CoE" and now you are! <3!
You have NO IDEA. This series will break your brain. You have never been this not prepared.
Darn it! I was looking forward to BSG… I heartily despise CoE, but it looks like I'm in the minority. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. Peace out until next week! I'll just ponder Amber Spyglass for now.
OMG YES!!! CoE!!!
But really, you are seriously not prepared. Words don't even describe the level of unpreparedness.
Damn I love this miniseries.
Oh this is a nice surprise. I'm too busy at this point in my year to start a new TV show, but I have watched and not-unenjoyed CoE. This week shall be… hum, "fun" doesn't seem quite the right word, does it?
All that said, I think it should be watched in the order broadcast. Even stuff that is chronologically before episodes can have spoiler-type things for the following episodes because they were done with the knowledge of the previous produced episodes. Watching it in the order broadcast recreates the original intent of RDM and the experience of those of us who suffered through. Without the months and months of waiting in between cliffhangers.
It's one reason that I think the publication order of the Chronicles of Narnia are vastly superior to the heretical renumbering- CS Lewis's intent be damned.
Hmm. I can see the case for The Plan, but even then it only spoilers things up to the episode "No Exit" and could be easily watched between "No Exit" and "Deadlock". In fact, watching it before the final episodes would be preferrable. Razor, on the other hand, fits nicely into its chronological space circa Season Two despite airing right before Season Four.
Children of Earth!!!…so glad your watching this, be fun to get your reactions…I'm quite new here, but I believe the saying goes …You are not prepared Mark!
I've been lurking for a long time, but this is just too good to pass up…I was sad that I do not have fancy-Starz-included cable, so I cannot watch the new Torchwood season unless I pirate. So instead, last week I re-watched Children of Earth. So now it is all fresh in my brain (or what is left of my brain after this series, Harry Potter, and Dances with Dragons), and I had to say: YOU ARE SOOOOOO NOT PREPARED!!!
What is with me and apparently opposite opinions from most of the fanbase on Whoniverse things? Everybody loves Children Of Earth? I *hated* CoE, the twist was nearly as inane as the one in the Red Dwarf Easter special that iirc came out the same year. (Which was also terrible, and the scutters were CGI, and there wasn't even any Holly. Hmph.)
I wouldn’t say I hated CoE but I’m its biggest fan exactly for reasons I can’t say at the moment.
But you aren’t alone. =)
I'm intrigued and I look forward to talking about this!
You're in the minority so far as I can tell, but you're not the first person I've seen who disliked CoE, not remotely. I liked it myself, but you're not alone. 🙂
Oh, SO MUCH love for Ianto Jones! He may be my favourite thing about Torchwood (okay, except for John Barrowman and James Marsters making out in Season 2, but that was designed to be a fangirl wet dream). Every time I see Ianto, I just want to give him SUCH A HUG!
And John Frobisher! Much as I love Ianto, every time Peter Capaldi appears in something, I do a little dance. I've loved him ever since he played Danny in "Local Hero" (showing my age there). It's so nice to see him back in the Whoniverse after he guest starred as Caecilius in "The Fires of Pompeii".
Oh fantastic! I've not watched Children of Earth since it was on. I caught a late-night repeat of… er, one of the episodes – on Watch, last year, on one of my wonderful insomniac nights where I'd curl up alone on the couch in my massive student house, watching silly TV programmes with the duvet wrapped tightly around me (I hated them at the time, but I really miss them now), and I found it a little heavier than I remembered. Well, okay, a lot heavier. I changed channels.
I think it's now time to pick up a DVD and get involved once more. Can't wait.
Incidentally, wondered around the time you finished if you'd be interested in doing a summary of what you reckoned to Doctor Who? Think I did ask (before I got an account, so prob under a different name!), but was just interested in if such a thing could still be in the pipeline? No worries if not – it's more work. But it'd be nice to hear how it all stacked up in the end, now you've got everything in context. There were a lot of "this character MIGHT become my favourite companion"s and "this could be my favourite episode"s and "I don't know if anyone could possibly beat David Tennant"s that would be quite cool to hear contextualised. DID they become your favourite companion, etc? I dunno! Just an idea.
Now, if only all the children of Earth were to suddenly stop and point and say in unison:
'You are not prepared"
That would, I think, be appropriate.
OMG SOMEONE MAKE A GIF OF THIS PLEASE
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You are record levels of unprepared, Mark.
Also, everyone thinks this is totally lame but one of my favourite parts of CoE is when it's mentioned that some of the children have been injured in car accidents and such. It's such a tiny detail but it's like "oh well DUH" when you think about it.
Also "BIG, SCI-FI SUPERBASE." ilu gwen NEVER CHANGE PLZ
The only episode of Torchwood I've seen is the first episode of Season 2. And I freely admit that I only watched it because of James Marsters. I just really like watching the man act, okay. And hearing him. (Cannot recommend The Dresden Files audiobooks, which he reads, enough. Seriously they are amazing.)
This is kinda spoilery. Deleting.
…In what way? I ask in all seriousness.
Mark prefers to be unaware of episode titles, as well as what episode are two-parters.
He may prefer it, but it's not in the site Spoiler Policy, and it's hard to give the proper order without referring to the titles of the web minisodes and the telemovies. Saying "the 2nd movie" or "the 3rd web series" doesn't work. Referring to regular episodes by number would be doable.
To clarify, the above comment (not the one you replied to) is meant as an implied question.
An implied question about whether I can repost with only the episode numbers referred to (but web series and movies named).
OMG CHILDREN OF THE EARTH SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!! Cannot wait to see your reactions to each day, oh man so excited!!
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Peter Capaldi is brilliant. That is all 😀
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