In the first Doctor Who Christmas special, the Doctor regenerates into a new body and immediately suffers the effects of his entire body reforming into new cells. Incapacitated inside Rose’s house, the world is attacked by a ruthless race of aliens, and it’s up to some familiar faces to save the day.
I already miss Christopher Eccleston, since he was my first real introduction to Doctor Who, but it’s not going to be hard to like David Tennant. The changes we see in the Doctor in “The Christmas Invasion” are subtle (personality changes, catch phrases, sense of humor) to quite drastic (physical appearance and outfit, for one). I found it pretty realistic that this special spent so much time on Rose disbelieving the regeneration process, or at least feeling that this “new” Doctor wasn’t the same one as before.
For the opening “episode” for the Tenth Doctor, we return to a place of familiarity: Cardiff. [AUTHOR’S EDIT: Clearly this is fucking London. What the fuck is wrong with me.] The effects of the Doctor’s regeneration cause him to go a bit wonky and he sends the TARDIS back to Rose’s home on Christmas Eve, where he promptly passes out after greeting Mickey and Jackie. Left without any real options as to what they could possibly do while the Doctor is unconscious, Mickey and Jackie head out to do some Christmas shopping.
There’s still a large part of me that wishes that Mickey would be invited along with Rose and the Doctor aboard the TARDIS. I’m beginning to like his character a lot and it still makes me sad to see that he’s basically Rose’s back-up plan in a way. I get the sense that even though he tried to see someone else, it just didn’t feel the same way as it did with Rose. I think a lot of people (myself included) take their relationships and friendships with people for granted. What would you do if they just up and disappeared one day, only returning at random points of time to see you?
It’s a frustrating scenario and I appreciate that Russell T Davies and the other writers have spent so much time on it. This particular episode is another example of how the plot is sort of secondary to the illuminating character development Doctor Who showcases. As Mickey and Rose walk around the shops in Cardiff, he asks her to please spend just a moment with him without talking about the Doctor; clearly, he’s intimidated by the fact that it’s sort of hard to compete with a spacetime-bending Time Lord who travels in a telepathic police box. So when those creepy Santa Clauses attack Rose and Mickey, I was more excited to see how the relationship between the two would be affected than seeing why these things were stalking them.
We do learn what is causing them to be attacked after they return home and a Christmas tree comes to life and nearly chops them to pieces. Rose wakes the Doctor up before he’s finished his regeneration process and they manage to obtain some information from him before he passes out again. These strange beings are merely scouting in a way; the energy that the Doctor is releasing has attracted much larger fish in the sea, to follow through with the logic used in the episode.
I don’t know if it’s ever explained why the Sycorax are attracted to the energy that the Doctor releases, as it’s not once referenced once they begin to invade earth. (Again, correct me if I’m missing something.) It seems that the probe that was sent out into space is what attracted this brutal alien race to Earth, especially since the aliens use the blood on the probe to “control” a third of humanity.
Plot-wise, this episode is so-so. We’ve already seen earth be invaded by the Slitheen and this plot doesn’t really differ significantly until the end. It was wonderful to see Harriet Jones again, this time as the Prime Minister after her work in “World War Three.” The character twist towards the end creates a stunning new dynamic between her and the Doctor…but we’ll get there in a moment. It seems that I really don’t care as much for the plot as I do the dialogue and the characters, and I’m ok with that. This episode, to me, explores Rose’s life without the Doctor in a way that the series one finale did. Rose simply doesn’t have the same knowledge as, say, Romana, a previous companion of the Doctor, and she is left feeling helpless and listless. How does she fight an alien invasion without the Doctor? How does she live her life in the best way possible without him around?
In a larger scope, this special also explores what the Universe would be like without the Doctor’s random interventions. I suppose the thought never really crossed my mind, but this show presents the idea that there is probably not a living thing that has affected the entire universe in a more positive manner than the Doctor. Is he bigger than Jesus. Wait, has there been an episode where the Doctor meets Jesus or do the writers generally think hey we’d like to keep our viewers and not piss off the entire world. These are my thoughts. I am sharing them with you.
Back to the Sycorax! So far, they’re my favorite aliens and their costumes/spaceship are just IMMENSE. Huge props to the crew who designed both of these things, because they were entirely believable, even if the plot attached to them seemed a bit nonsensical. (Seriously, you guys chose earth? What the fuck do we have that you can use?) The fake language they used was also goddamn awesome and creepy, and the electrical whip thing? TERRIFYING FOREVER. Oh god, AND THE TEETH. The teeth. Never again, I swear.
Best moment of the episode? When the lead Sycorax suddenly starts speaking English. I didn’t get it at first, but the reveal that the TARDIS started working (BECAUSE OF A CUP OF TEA, THE MOST BRITISH PLOT TWIST OF ALL TIME), I actually screamed FUCK YEAH to my television. Out comes the Doctor, completely regenerated in a new body, and ready to deal with the Sycorax with a healthy dose of sarcasm and wit. And that’s all we really wanted, isn’t it? He calls the Sycorax’s bluff (no one could have actually committed suicide, as the blood control was more akin to hypnotism) and then challenges the leader to a duel, which he, of course, victoriously wins.
The end of this episode, though, sets an interesting tone for the series to come. Harriet Jones and her assistant had mentioned “Torchwood” a few times as some sort of organization that could be contacted regarding the alien invasion. After the Doctor warns Harriet that all the probes and radio waves we are sending out into space are making us a “noisy” planet, she gets through to Torchwood and orders them to fire, effectively murdering the Sycorax. It’s our first chance to see David Tennant play the Doctor in a fit of rage and he’s somehow even more intimidating than Christopher Eccleston. I have to say, I didn’t expect Harriet Jones to do what she did, especially after the Sycorax left Earth. It’s a horrifying political move, but the Doctor returns with just six words to dismantle her government:
“Don’t you think she looks tired?”
God bless the Doctor.
THOUGHTS
- The Sycorax ship sure had a lot of ill-placed buttons just hanging around.
- According to Wikipedia, Tennant’s accent is Estuary English. Neat! I had no idea.
- “Aww, I wanted to be ginger. I’ve never been ginger. And you, Rose Tyler, fat lot of good you were. You gave up on me. Oooh, that was rude. Is that the kind of man I am now? Am I rude? Rude and not ginger?”
- “There is more to see than can ever be seen. More to do than–no, hold on…Sorry, that’s The Lion King. But the point still stands!”
- The reoccurring joke of fruit being left in Howard’s robe = AMAZING.
- “Tea. While we’re waiting for the world to come to an end. Very British.”
- “And when you go back to the stars and tell others of this planet, when you tell them of its riches, its people, its potential, when you talk of the Earth, then make sure that you them them this: IT. IS. DEFENDED!” bamf bamf bamf
Yay! David Tennant! I've been hanging out for you to get up to this season…
Oi, don't knock Eccleston.
How is yay-ing for Tennant knocking Eccleston?
I thought Chris was a fab doctor, but I love Tennant better. Not knocking, just opinion. I happen to like both of them very much, but preferring one is not knocking the other.
Did you watch the Children In Need thingie that connected the two episodes?
Hop! Hop! Hop!
You're right. There's a very hopful dynamic to that scene.
(I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.)
"This new hand, it's a fightin' hand!"
I like the way that in the Children in Need cutaway, the (ahem) strength of his right wrist one his main complaint about his new bod. Well, he certianly fixed that didn't he? Also there are little references to watch out for indicating just how manly he thinks his right hand is now…
The interesting thing about Harriet is that he made her paranoid in the first place, telling her how vulnerable the Earth was, just before that whatever-it-was came online. If he hadn't done that, she'd probably not have fired.
Anybody else get the vibe that just as everybody else were assuring themselves and each other that he was absolutely the same man, he was feeling out some pretty significant changes in his approach?
I adore that he said it with a Southern accent.
Oh God I love how he delivers that 🙂
Is it Cardiff or London they go to? Jackie's flat is in London I reckon
Also:
“Don’t you think she looks tired?”
That is the killer. And I reckon it relates so much to how OLD and TIRED the prime minister inevitably ends up looking after a few years at number 10 compared to how bright eyed and bushy tailed they are when they go in.
It's London.
London, but filmed in Cardiff.
That's a good point, I had never seen it that way. The change in Gordon Brown after a couple of years has to be seen to be believed.
And what about old Tone there. He came out so grey and ashen and harried. It was amazing.
True, that! I saw him a couple of weeks ago in that Catherine Tate special and I could barely recognize him. Besides, I had watched "The Queen" a few days before and it took me over half the sketch to see that yes, it was Tony Blair, no, not a random actor and no, no Michael Sheen.
Note to self: don't be PM.
Oh god, I actually ALMOST felt sorry for Blair. He just looked haggard, like he'd aged several decades. What a job.
Although, Brown actually looked better than he had in ages when he left. During the campaign he was a state and then that morning he left with the wife and kids he looked like a whole new man, like he was relieved. I was all, run back to Scotland, save yourself, who the hell would want your job??
Cameron currently still baby-faced. Will watch with interest.
Actually, the scenes around Jackie's flat are shot in the powell estate in Peckham, London. Apparently it caused no end of problems with random weird people wandering through shot.
Cardiff pretending to be London, was going to mention this myself. Anyway, so pleased we're up to the Tennant era!
The line also plays very psychologically. People start to think, well is she actually tired, what's making her so tired, maybe the workload is getting too big for her, maybe she can't handle the stress, maybe she's weak, maybe she's just not up to the job.
Our Presidents end up the same exact way, the job accelerates your aging process by ten times faster. D:
Tony Blair went grey and aged about 10 years in his first six months! The old geezer who did the first Question time Special a few months after entering Downing Street was unrecognisable from the young bloke who'd entered such a short time before. Then again, I suppose any job which is effectively 24/7 is tiring. The appearing and vanishing and reappearing of David Cameron's bald spot is likely to fuel future PhD theses apenty!
Hah, London. This isn't the first time Mark has decided Rose lives in London. Mark, go listen to a Welsh person.
It must be contagious, because now you're doing it too (only kidding)! I think you mean Cardiff.
Rose lives in London, not Cardiff 🙂
OH SHIT, THIS IS TRUE. lol
lol. I've been putting off going to the library to work on my essay because "what if Mark posts another Who review and I'm not at home to comment?!". But now it appears I'm going to have to get up off my ass. Damn. Ah well, while I was waiting I typed up my comment. LOL.
The thing about this episode for me is that in typical RTD fashion, the plot doesn’t REALLY matter, but rather how the characters respond to the events and what it says about them as people. Really this episode isn’t about the Sycorax, but it’s about the Doctor rediscovering himself and Rose dealing with the Doctor being incapacitated and then accepting that this new man is still the Doctor.
I think this is a lovely little introduction to Ten. He’s trying to figure out who he is. Is he rude and not ginger? Maybe. But that speech that he gives to the Sycorax that turns into The Lion King is just so very Ten. I love it. And I love the scene with the Big Red Button. Oh Ten. ILU.
But I think the real Defining Ten Moment is the scene where he joins Rose, Jackie and Mickey for Christmas dinner. This is such a major departure from Nine who in the Slitheen two-parter, refused to stay for tea and instead tempted Rose away to abandon her family again. But Ten is different. He’s embracing Jackie and Mickey as his family too. And it is completely adorable. The Doctor has learned how to really care about other people again and even though his planet and his race is gone, he’s made a new family for himself.
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Rose’s journey in this episode is really wonderful. She starts out being completely scared when the Doctor is out of commission. She doesn’t know what to do so she plans to hide in the Tardis, but when she’s thrust into the position of leader, she does her best. Rose stands up against the Sycorax all by herself. She takes what she’s learned by traveling with the Doctor and at least tries to stop the Sycorax. And ok, it totally doesn’t work and you can hear her voice quivering a bit, but she tries to be the Doctor when he’s not there. She is starting to grow into her own, as a Hero, I think.
And of course, for Rose, this episode is also about her (and the audience) accepting Ten as the Doctor. In the shopping scene with Mickey, Rose is still clearly upset by the regeneration and doesn’t really know what this all means for her. But I think the tide starts to turn for her when she asks him to wake up and save her, which he promptly does.
And then after the Doctor wakes up for good and confronts the Sycorax, I think you can start to see Rose falling for him and believing that he’s really HER Doctor. It’s finally confirmed after he fights the Sycorax. “No arguments from me!” That final scene between the two of them really seals the deal.
Rose: And what about you? What are you gonna do next?
Doctor: Well, back to the Tardis. Same old life.
Rose: On your own?
Doctor: Why? Don’t you want to come?
Rose: Well, yeah.
Doctor: Do you though?
Rose: Yeah!
Doctor: I just thought… cause I changed.
Rose: Yeah, I thought cause you changed… you might not want me anymore
Doctor [grinning]: Oh, I’d love you to come!
Mickey: You’re never going to stay are you?
Rose: There’s just so much out there. So much to see. I’ve just got to.
Mickey: Yeah.
I just love how they try to play it off all casually like Rose isn’t scared that the Doctor won’t want her anymore and that the Doctor isn’t afraid that Rose won’t want to travel with him now that he’s changed.
These next lines really sum up how epic Rose and Ten are and why I love them so much. There is just such a passion for life and adventure about them.
Jackie Tyler: Well, I reckon you're mad, the pair of you. It's like you go looking for trouble.
The Doctor: Trouble's just the bits in-between! It's all waiting out there, Jackie. And it's brand new to me – all those planets and creatures and horizons! I haven't seen them yet, not with these eyes. And it is gonna be… fantastic!
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/GuyCrazy1017/Doctor%20Who%20screencaps/2x00roseanddoctorhands.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/GuyCrazy1017/Doctor%20Who%20screencaps/2x00holdinghands.jpg">
And then he grabs Rose’s hand and they grin stupidly at each other while they chat about where they’re going to go first. I love these two.
I wish I could upvote this comment MOAR. Also, how did you fit it all?? I swear if my comment is longer than a paragraph, I have to split it up lol
Really??? Does it give you a message saying not to? I've definitely seen lots of long comments.
It'll just tell me my comment is too long and so I usually just reply to myself with the rest of it. WEIRD.
My comment box is a Tardis. It's bigger on the inside.
lol. seriously though. Idk. I just type a lot and it lets me post it?
lol, THAT MUST BE IT!
And then he grabs Rose’s hand and they grin stupidly at each other while they chat about where they’re going to go first
That's my favourite part, it even had hand-holding!
I will say in Nine's defense that he was starting to reconcile himself to Rose's home life by the end of his season – first by asking Mickey aboard the TARDIS and taking a much more conciliatory attitude towards the Rose/Mickey relationship, and then by sending Rose back to Jackie as a sort of "I'm sorry"/"see, I'm keeping her safe" during "The Parting of the Ways". Ten just completes the process here. 🙂
As soon as he started quoting The Lion King, I knew I love Ten. I enjoyed Nine and everything, but I loved Ten and I didn't really know that I loved the show until this episode.
I firmly believe that it is impossible not to love David Tennant.
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Tennant I like, his Doctor…. Well, spoilers I guess but my posts may be a bit grumpier for the next three and a bit series. All I'll say is few of my complaints are directed at the actor.
Sorry if this double posts, it seems to have gone missing when posted from the iPad. Anyway….
Tennant I like a lot. He's a promoted fanboy, he brings a lot to the role and is capable of being very dark on occasion. His Doctor, on the other hand… well, spoilers I guess. Let's just say my replies here may be a tad more grumpy for the next three series + specials.
Yeah, same.
I could see people not loving Ten, but David Tennant who's been planning on being the Doctor since he was three and keeps a video diary for all of us to squee over and is just so HAPPY to be the Doctor it makes me happy? No, it's impossible not to love him.
He is the only *actor* I've ever really crushed on. Every interview I've read and every appearance I've seen him in just makes me love him more. He just seems so *decent*, and not in the usual actor PR way. Okay, now I'm done getting my fangirl squee on.
I've seen some people who don't and they're deviants as far as I'm concerned. JUST LOOK AT HIM.
I can't see him and not think of a weasel or an otter, but as a person he does seem perfectly nice. 🙂
"Rude and not ginger" is my absolute favorite line in the ENTIRE SERIES! As hard as it was for me to stop missing Eccleston and like Tennant, I still loved this episode. I am a huge Tennant fangirl now, so he won me over!!
I'm with you there 100%. Eccleston is still my Doctor, but Tennant is too close to a tie with him by now.
And speaking of how hard it is to adapt to a new Doctor, I haven't been able to adapt well to Matt Smith yet. I miss something in him altogether. Oh, well, perhaps this year it'll be easier.
I actually had an easier time going from Tennant to Smith than I did from Eccleston to Tennant, but I have not been able to get my daughter to watch even one Matt Smith episode, because she can't get over the fact that he's not Tennant, lol. When I buy series 5 I'm going to MAKE her watch them with me, because regardless of if you like Smith or not, there's some great episodes there.
I’m definitely having a harder time adjusting to Smith than I did adjusting to Tennant. I’ve been back to watch 9 after a ton of 10 and I enjoy it. But 11 is falling flat for me. It’s still creative and good, but it’s not… right.
Might just be the creative changes between s1-s4 and s5. Though considering I saw Ten first, I think it took me about equal amounts of time (~half a season) to adjust to watching both Nine and Eleven.
I like the last 4 episodes of s5, and the rest are pretty 'eh'. Christmas Special was Pretty Good. But the last 4 episodes of s5 are the only ones that compare to some of the episodes in this season. Those 'some of the episodes' that made me a 10 Tennant fangirl.
I liked s5 in a different way than I liked s1-s4, is all. I LOVED s1-s4, whereas I only enjoy s5, and in a more passive way. I'm less attached to the characters/etc. I do think some episodes were great, but over-all for me it's not quite ~the same.
I do think Matt Smith is the best thing about new New Who, though, he's great.
I feel the same way.
Ten is "my Doctor" and I'm not sure I"ll ever give him up. Matt Smith doesn't do it for me.
I don't think I've seen this again since the Christmas Day it premiered. But I can still so clearly remember sitting there, tears rolling down my face at the Lion King moment.
Yeah, the Lion King moment could be my favorite of the entire episode.
Oh and I know that a lot of people don't like what Ten did to Harriet Joes, but I’m Team Doctor. I think Harriet Jones was in the wrong. I mean, I understand why Harriet did what she did. But I still think she had no right to kill the Sycorax based on what they MIGHT do and what MIGHT happen. Although by the same token, I think Harriet was a good PM and the Doctor probably shouldn’t have taken her out of power like he did.
I was disappointed in both of them, but I thought the Doctor's revenge (can't think of a better word) was a bit childish. I get why he did it, but it left a bad taste in my mouth
It was a bit childish, for sure. But Ten is a bit childish at times and I love him for it. Honestly though, I think I side with the Doctor more because personally I'm a pacifist and I just really can't get down with Harriet Jone's murdering of all those Sycorax who were in retreat.
I also think it goes back to his statement on the Sycorax ship that he was the type of man to not give second chances. Harriet Jones made her mistake and he wasn't going to give her a chance to make another one. I think one of the reasons they had that was a compliment to his actions when he killed the Sycorax leader. It was more to show that he was a decisive Doctor and neither human nor other alien would be above his, for lack of a better term, law. I think both of his actions of vengeance were supposed to make you uncomfortable. He is not a Doctor who accepts excuses. He believes in exacting his own corporal punishment.
I have a much larger statement to make, but spoilers, so I guess I'll talk about that later.
Yeah. The Harriet Jones thing was pretty impulsive, but that kind of impulsiveness has the Doctor written all over it
Yeah. IA. Just like Ten said, with the whole Big Red Button speech… he does tend to be impulsive. So yeah. I don't hate him for it. I get why he did it even if he didn't handle things in the most mature manner.
Problem is it's the Doctors own words that push her over the edge and force her to make the only decision she can. More to the point, he just destroyed the architect of Britain's golden age without a thought and the last of the fricken' time lords – the man who not two days ago in his own timeline saw the entire earth enslaved for a hundred years because of his cowboy attitude to this sort of thing – should bloody well know better.
No. It was not the only decision that should be could have made. It was a choice. And she made it. It 's one that I find personally distasteful. She killed thousands of beings that were in retreat. I know that it's my own personal stance as a pacifist that makes me react so strongly to Harriet Jones's actions, even though I understand why she felt ti was necessary for her to do what she did. But still. Come on. It was not her only decision.
And of course the Doctor didn't react in the most mature way possible. The Doctor (Ten especially) has a bit of an impulsive streak, and he's especially a bit erratic right after regeneration. He didn't make the best decision either, but Harriet Jones isn't an innocent party here.
In that situation, after having had to stand by and watch helpless as the country was invaded, a third of the population (or something like that anyway) held hostage by tech that must have seemed like magic, with the occupants of the giant alien ship so far beyond your experience telling you there is an ARMADA of the damn things and with the Doctor only saving the day by a total fluke and with responsibility for the entire country on her back…. yes, it's a horrible thing to say but sometimes you HAVE to take that decision. That's just the reality of the situation. More to the point… who the HELL is the Doctor to make the decision to remove her from power? She held the country together throughout the crisis and he himself has said how important she is to Britain. The Doctor has the blood of millions on his hands, largely under similar circumstances to those Harriet faces, and is hardly known for saying 'live and let live' so it's horribly hypocritical of him.
I totally agree. I understand that it's all very complicated given both Harriet's and the Doctor's actions but if she's important enough that the Doctor actually knew who she was it seems like it should be a bigger deal that he got rid of her before she even finished her first term, never mind the three she was supposed to be elected for.
That's a lot of history changed right there. Not to mention the longer term knock on effects. History isn't a series of single events, they all interact, influence and lead into each other and I just wonder what the long term effects could end up being. Admittedly there might not be any, someone else could step into her role but it makes me wonder what if no one did? I mean, a Golden Age sounds like a big deal.
*raises hand*
I love Ten but it was not his place to demote a PM. I thought she was right: the Doctor is not there a lot of times, we can't depend on a time-traveler to defend us! Pre-emptive measures are disgusting but ends and means. Not every alien invasion will be defeated through a sword-fight.
Team Harriet Jones forever!
Pre-emptive measures are disgusting but ends and means
Maybe I'm too soft for the real world – too much of an idealist (lol. I totally am. It's why I'm in academia), but I HATE the idea that the ends justify the means. Ugh. Deal with what MIGHT happen with the Sycorax if it does happen. I still can't get behind murdering thousands of beings who were retreating in order to prevent a possible future event.
I've always thought that the more relevant argument is less the chance of them returning, or telling other aliens about Earth, but that they're unrepentant slavers and murderers who are very probably going off to invade someone else.
Yeah, but that wasn't exactly Harriet Jones's motivation was it? She wasn't doing it for the ~good of the universe~. She was just killing them before they could maybe kill her in the future. I understand the thinking behind her decision. I just really dislike it.
No, sorry, don't buy that. At NO point in the episode (or in the Aliens of London / WW3 two parter) do we see Harriet ever once think of herself. She's thinking of the millions of people she represents, the people who look to her, and her government, to protect them from military agression. If there's one characteristic we never see in her it's that she's a coward.
The Doctor says it himself, he doesn't punish her for her actions against the Sycorax, he punishes her for challenging HIM! Very different thing…
I wasn't clear before. I didn't mean "her" as in her own person, but rather "her/the Earth" which you know… wasn't really in danger from the Sycorax anymore (at least from the Doctor's POV). It wasn't about getting rid of bad guys for the sake of the rest of the universe is what I meant.
I really don't think the Doctor mean "if you challenge me on anything, I will take you down". But she went against his moral code, killing a ship full of aliens who were not a threat to you at that point. And sure, you can hate him for imposing his morals on everyone. More power to you. But I still don't see this as some sort of megalomaniac type action.
Problem is he's not punishing Harriet Jones, he's punishing the entire country for a decision made by one individual (and that he directly causes to be made with his 'you're so noisy' speech). His decision is just as morally wrong as the one Harriet made yet the Doctor is never even so much as questioned on it, certainly removing the architect of Britain's Golden Age has the potential to do FAR more damage to far more people who are far more innocent in all this than destroying the Sycorax ship which, let us not forget, was quite willing to come back with an armada and taking the world by force.
he directly causes to be made with his 'you're so noisy' speech
I don't think that's fair though. Harriet's decision is her decision. She needs to own it. She made a choice. She wasn't forced into it.
I really don't think his decision is "just as morally wrong". You can't compare the two scenarios. One is the killing a ship full of Sycorax. The other is taking down a PM who could have done some good for her country (that maybe another person can do too). They're both bad decisions, but I think Harriet's is worse. But whatever. I'm just a pacifist who also is against the death penalty. I just can't get behind Harriet decision to kill all the Sycorax. It just goes too far against my belief systems.
Argh, I know exactly what I want to say but can't for spoiler reasons! Umm, can we conclude this conversation when the spoilers go away?
I suspect the points you want to make but can't due to spoilers are related to the points I want to make but can't because of spoilers. How frustrating. I shall have to remember the points I want to make when they cease to be spoilers.
To that end HURRY UP, MARK (kidding, kidding…)
I suspect the points you want to make in relation to the points Steve M wants to make but can't due to spoilers are related to the points I want to make but can't because of spoilers.
Uh oh. Is this a recursive occlusion?!
*scared*
Oh god, we're stuck.
Help, Dr, Help us!
I love this whole comment thread, and I think the points nyssa wants to make in relation to the points kytten wants to make in relation to the points Steve M wants to make are also related to the points I want to make but can't because of spoilers. That is all.
*VWORPVWORPVWORP*
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
These are my points too.
I was always somewhat bothered by what he did, but I understand why the writers did this. They definitely could have made the Doctor’s rational for removing her from power less out of character for him and for that I blame the writers! I still love 10.
Yes, they were reatreating, but as Danel says, they were slavers and I'm sure they'd murdered 1/3 of Earth's population if their technology had allowed it. It's not as if they were "collateral damage" of civilians, they were soldiers who nearly enslaved the planet.
It's not as if I'm cheering her on when she approves, it's an terrible decision but I think it had to be done. And I definitely think it's not the Doctor's place to interfere in human politics. Where are those 3 terms now? No Golden Age anymore? Because she dared to disagree with the Doctor?!
But I really don't think he took her down because she dared to agree with him. The Doctor just really has a huge distaste for murder like that. If she disagree with him in a way that didn't result in mass murder, I'm sure things would have been fine. I have other examples of the Doctor doing everything possible to avoid having to kill a bad guy instead of just killing them, but you know… spoilers. So I am going to leave it there.
And, in a really useless bit of trivia, is a (heavy handed) reference to real life events in The Falklands War with the sinking of the ARA General Belgrano.
I dont know if anyone outside of the UK (or Argentina) would get the Falklands reference. I thought it was a brilliant writers ploy though…. the power of the pen and of simple insinuation and focus on appearance rather than substance. Note that Harriet Jones, Prime Minister only LOOKED tired, not was tired… how the general population truly has no substance to look beyond the superficial
I can accept that the Doctor was impulsive and foolish, but the problem is that – as Mark picked up on – he's started to be portrayed as a sort of saviour/god figure, and it's implied that all the other characters – and the writers themselves – agreed with his action.
Yeah, the Doctor isn't there a lot of the time, and now he's just left them in a potentially worse mess as he goes gallivanting off again.
Exactly.
This Doctor right from the start seems to like to think of himself as just the sort of saviour / god figure who can make these decisions. Curiously brittle, even in the Christmas episode, where there will never be much plot as the writers know that their audience will be mainly drunk when they see it for the first time!
Yeah. That the Doctor himself thinks this way, not just the writers and the people around him, is something I hadn't picked up before, but I'll have to pay attention to in this rewatch.
If we all think like that, then the means will become the end. You just need a little push to make something like "for the better good" become totalitarian. Just think what will happen if we make "exceptions" in every law, then the "exceptions" become bigger than the law until the law is dissolved. That's how laws have been revoked in the past. Now, take that to political views about massive slaughter "for the greater good" and see how it ends up.
The Doctor knows how violence will only create more violence so he takes actions against it. It might end right or wrong, but that's what you chance when you act "for the greater good."
So yes, I understand Harriet Jones views and see her point perfectly well, but I also understand the Doctor's point of view. Meaning, I understand how he can see the future of the human race led by violence against others as their first means of communication by the present example and wants to stop that from happening. You let them kill once, then let them kill again, and sooner than you think you have a whole planet with a Dalek minded population of destruction of anything alien to them.
On the other hand, good way to unite the entire human race against another enemy outside themselves! World peace may even happen if they're busy fighting planetary outsiders.
That's true and it's a huge risk. I wouldn't have liked to be in Harriet Jones' shoes, her two options were bad ones. Still, the greatest problem I have with this episode is how the Doctor takes her upon himself to kick her out of office, despite the great popular support she has and how excellent she is.
I understand her pov and while I get his I just can't get behind his short-temper.
You're right about world peace: I guess that's why it's very common in sci-fy to have a common government for a whole planet.
I think the Doctor taking out Harriet Jones was a very Doctor thing to do and if he hadn't done it, he wouldn't be the Doctor. I don't like her taken down either, but that's the Doctor for you with all his forced pacifism.
TY. I think you expressed my thought better than I did. lol. I'm not like "YEAH DOCTOR! YOU TAKE DOWN THOSE PRIME MINISTERS LIKE A BOSS!", but the Doctor is big on pacifism if at all possible. And as far as he was concerned he'd gotten rid of the Sycorax and they weren't coming back. He's solved the issue in his eyes. THAT is why he reacts so strongly to what Harriet did. He didn't see them as a threat any longer, so for her to kill them all like that… yeah. No bueno.
I will try and word this so there is no spoiling.
We have seen, in previous series, how the Doctors high-handedness and tendency to just make decisions for people has bitten him before. Yes, the Dr is being portrayed as a bit of a Saviour figure, but I see no implication that he's always right- in fact, I think it's shown that he often messes everything up. Ten is, a different man to Nine, and in his reactions here we see one of the darker sides of that difference.
He is not directly punished or talked back to about his behaviour here- I expect everyone was in shock from a ship full of sentient (admittedly dickish) creatures destroyed.
Oh yeah. I totally agree. The Doctor is totally high handed, imposing his values and morals on other people. He does it all the time and this is one of those times. I don't think the moment is suposed to be some crowning moment of glory for him either. The way that DT plays it reads, to me, like it's supposed to be showing his dark side.
Yeah, I have never felt like the show thinks the Doctor is right in all his actions all the time. Even in the second episode of New Who you have Nine letting Cassandra explode, which is pretty dark and disturbing and unnerves Rose.
Yeah IA. I think it is a pretty morally ambiguous (at best) action on his part, but 100% in character, like it or not. The Doctor is not right in his actions 100% of the time.
Hey, totally off-topic from this, but I got a comment from you but I can't find it here, it was about "Song for Ten" and you said you had the second version.
I have the first one here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O77O3ROE and I thank you, but I don't like the second one, the beat is not the kind of thing I usually listen to.
Thanks anyway!
LOL I was wondering what had happened to that comment tbh. No problem, I think you'd said that you used to have it so I figured I would offer.
I agree; its a very Doctor thing to do, and a very Ten thing to do.
That doesn't mean I fully agree with it, or even fully with Harriet Jones. I'm imaging any politician; the entire world is at threat by alien invaders. They threatened to kill 1/3 of the population and enslave the rest. They've retreated, but only on the word of another alien, and as far as you know, they could easily get reinforcements or do the same thing to another planet. You have the means to stop them. Killing them doesn't seem out of place.
It doesn't seem right, either, I know. It was death. But I think the Doctor didn't have a leg to stand on; he's made his number of rash decisions and killed or given fates worst than death. I agree it was within his character; after all, he sees himself as The Oncoming Storm, the Lonely God. He has a bit of an ego, our Doctor. And he lets it run away with him.
This is a great way to put it. They both have very good reasons for what they did, but they were both sort of in the wrong. I think this was meant to be a very divisive scene.
Personally I think they were just both flat out in the wrong. I'm not on either of their teams WRT these actions!
I love that this is actually controversial.
Aww, this was my first Doctor Who episode ever! ~memories~
The TARDIS translation reveal and "Did you miss me?" may be my favorite "FUCK YEAH!" moment since Inigo Montoya said "I want my father back, you son of a bitch"
OH GOD I love this episode forever, I could watch it every day and not get tired of it. It was the first ep of Doctor Who I ever watched, then I went back and caught up with the first series. Fun fact: I can literally quote almost the entire episode word for word. I also wrote to David Tennant after it aired saying how it had single handedly converted me to loving Doctor Who, and I got a response, which is now framed in my bedroom *fangirl squee*
Rose stepping up and making a speech to the Sycorax = BAMF forever, and bless her heart she managed to say Raxacoricofallapatorious under pressure <3 Also 'But if you're speaking English, that means it's working, which means….*David opens TARDIS doors*…Did you miss me?' is possibly my favourite thing ever. And the twist at the end, with the 'Dont you think she looks tired?', oh god what a magnificent bit of writing <i>because it's so true in politics a rumour that simple can bring someone down.
Yeah if you cant tell I will sing the praises of this Christmas special until the end of time. So excited for you to start the next series proper Mark <3
I skipped this episode the first time I watched Doctor Who. I mean it's a Christmas special who cares. WRONG.
I did the same thing! I went back and watched it after I caught myself up on the new series, and man did it explain some things.
LOL ME TOO. I SKIPPED ALL THE CHRISTMAS SPECIALS WHILE MARATHONING S1-S4. That made for some confusing times.
Oh, yeah, same for me. Then I started getting farther along and I was like "whaaa? I don't remember that. Who's this? Sooooo confused!"
BTW, thirty2flavors, I keep meaning to ask….there's an author on 'Teaspoon and an Open Mind' with the same user name as you. You wouldn't happen to be one and the same?
LOL YEAH. I think what happened (it's a fuzzy memory) was that I saw the Children in Need clip, and thought that was "the Christmas special", so I figured, since the site I was using didn't have the Christmas specials, "oh well, I don't need the five minute little clips". And then… yeah. TURNS OUT sometimes they are crucial to the plot. (And sometimes they aren't, but. You know.)
lol that is indeed me!
And its not just that they're crucial to the plot; the Christmas Specials are fun, if maybe not the best episodes. And the short little Children in Need bits are some of my favourite moments in the series.
And love your writing, btw. I don't have an account on Teaspoon to say it there, but seriously, its good stuff!
British television with their ~Christmas Specials~ actually being important to the series plot arc.
Mark, I think you need to start thinking about watching Torchwood. I’m sure someone can come up with a workable timeline for you against Doctor Who, but, yeah, if you’re going to, should be soon;)
Torchwood series 1 takes place after the end of series 2 of Doctor Who, so if he's going to watch it, it should be then.
NOOO! he can't watch torchwood until he's finished series 2, or he will be faced with some major major spoilers!!!
Mark needs to finish season two of Doctor Who before starting Torchwood. Generally, broadcast order is the way to go, and that's where it falls.
Yes, this! Definitely watch Torchwood, it's fabulous. The correct viewing order would be:
Doctor Who S1
Doctor Who Christmas Special 2005
Doctor Who S2
Doctor Who Christmas Special 2006
Torchwood S1
Doctor Who S3
“Time Crash” – a mini-episode (only a few minutes) from a children’s fund raiser (BBC’s Children In Need) starring David Tennant and Peter Davidson The Doctor
Doctor Who Christmas Special 2007
Torchwood S2
Doctor Who S4
Doctor Who Christmas Special 2008
Doctor Who Easter Special 2009
Torchwood Radio Plays (July 2009)
Torchwood Season 3
Doctor Who November Special 2009
Doctor Who December 2-part Special 2009
Doctor Who S5
Doctor Who Christmas Special 2010
And then there's the new series of both coming out this year, but because of the change in production details there probably won't be much cross-over.
To make it more interesting you'd have to watch the episodes alternately so that the series end of Torchwood S1 coincides with the Doctor Who S3. I can't remember if the Torchwood eps were broadcast before DW, or the other way round though…
Torchwood series 1 was broadcast in its entirety before Doctor Who series three started, which still makes it the easiest way to watch. Some events are happening at the same time in both series, though, although it's pretty vague as to exactly what might be happening when, especially as the parent show involves time travel.
It's all hypothetical at this stage, but you could watch them like this, to get a sense of the interconnectedness and that idea that time passes sometimes between stories (it's a problem that the production team says there is with Torchwood series one, that they didn't make that clear enough):
TW 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4
DW Christmas Special
TW 1.5
DW 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.4/3.5, 3.6
TW 1.6
DW 3.7
TW 1.7, 1.8, 1.9
DW 3.8/3.9
TW 1.10, 1.11
DW 3.10
TW 1.12/1.13
DW. 3.11, 3.12/3.13
That'd be quite a good way to watch, I think.
The decision is whether to watch Torchwood series one after this series or to go straight to series three of Doctor Who. It's a reasonable easy choice and he's got a couple of weeks to make it.
Watching Torchwood would add another 31 episodes, or a month's worth.
Watching the Sarah Jane Adventures, if you do both parts in a day (they're only 25 minutes each) would add another would add another 18 days (series four won't be available until this time next year).
So:
DW: 74 days
DW+TW: 105 days
DW+TW+SJA: 123 days
(plus extra days for the classic series)
I'd say do it all, but it's not my time that I'd have to manage.
I think he could get away with doing just the SJA/Torchwood episodes that are relevant to Doctor Who, but as you say, it's not my time that I'd have to manage.
Why doesn’t Mark just watch Torchwood but not do it as part of Mark Watches?
Mark, when it comes time for Torchwood, I think you should watch at least episode one and see if you like it, then you can either not watch it, watch it without reviewing it or watch it and review it.
The sooner you get to season 5, the better, Mark. That, and the sooner you finish Doctor Who, the sooner you get to Avatar. =D
Though honestly, I don't think Torchwood and the SJC are important enough to justify injecting them into the main schedule. Finish the main series first, worry about the spinoffs when there's not more important stuff to do. There will still be new seasons of Who to look forward to every year, so it's not like Mark's going to forget about the series (not that he's going to forget about anything he's covered thus far, but you know what I mean). Let them cover a lull if there's an opening.
IA. But that could also be because I am not very interested in the spinoffs and don't want two weeks of Doctor Who review-less days in order to cover Torchwood, lol.
I don't think much of Torchwood's intrigue is lost if you watch it after Doctor Who, anyway.
Say hello to Ten
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I haven't had a chance to rewatch the ep (I hate you essays with post Christmas due dates) so I don't really remember the smaller details. The evil santas and Christmas trees were a great idea to make the evil a bit festive. They handle the change in Doctor very well. Rose's weariness mirrored a lot of fans who didn't know if they could accept another Doctor but we're shown that he may be a little different but he's still largely the Doctor we know, love and trust.
You can never not love the fact that Jackie saved the day with a thermos of tea.
See I’m very conflicted about the end of the episode. I understand why the Doctor did what he did, it was a bloody move to make on Harriet’s part, and I love how he can take her down with just six words because that is pure BAMF, but Harriet Jones according to the Doctor himself is the “future Prime Minister. Elected for three successive terms – the architect of Britain's Golden Age.” and you take her down because you don’t deem her a fit leader over a single action, despite being elected and apparently playing a huge part in this great future. It’s all complicated and conflicting but it’s very hard to take the Doctor’s meddling seriously after where his meddling lead in The Long Game/Bad Wolf. I just don't know what to make of it. Side eyeing you right now Doctor, kicking ass Arthur Dent style or not.
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OMG love this gif!!
I love you so much for posting the Nan gif!
NAN'S CHRISTMAS SPECIAL FTW
Ten taking down Harriet really confused me too after what he had said in WWIII, but you know, I just let it go.
I'm partial to the Lucille GIF.
I do love Lucille gifs. She has some great reactions.
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THAT .GIF. THE DANCING ONE. WHAT EPISODE. PLEASE.
I've been trying to remember for the last like, ten minutes, and it's driving me crazy. Thanks in advance for putting me out of my misery!
It's from the Christmas special of The Catherine Tate show 'Nan's Christmas Carol' which aired 2009, I think. There should be clips of it up on youtube. David Tennant is amazing in it.
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Dangit, while I was typing all those other replies beat me to the punch. Totally not complaining, though, because now I know which Catherine Tate one it was. W00t.
The Lion King moment is my second favourite Dr Who moment EVER. I'm afraid I cannot tell you my favourite just yet. I love this episode so much, maybe just because of David Tennant and Adam Garcia. And the Sycorax are freaking awesome in my eyes, that whip thingy is what Indiana Jones wishes he had.
Yay for finally reaching David Tennant. Enjoy him.
Yeah, I feel like the Lion King moment is RTD giving everyone a reason to love the new Doctor. Because, seriously, if you can't love him after that? Well, I don't know if that's possible, really.
Oh, yeah. I absolutely adore the Lion King moment. Actually, all of Ten's dialogue when he first leaves the TARDIS.
"Very Arthur Dent. Now there was a nice man." IS THE HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE REAL IN THIS UNIVERSE? Must know.
If you read fic you may enjoy this one: http://www.whofic.com/viewstory.php?sid=28570
(Spoilers for Torchwood s1 and Doctor Who s3.)
Finally! I was beginning to think no one picked up on that. I totally shrieked at that.
My favorite line "No second chances, I'm that kind of man."
Huh? When was that? Crap now I have to watch it again.
What do I mean, crap? YAY I HAVE TO WATCH IT AGAIN.
I'd completely forgotten about the Arthur Dent line!! Another favourite of mine!
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The Lion King moment is my second favourite Dr Who moment EVER. I'm afraid I cannot tell you my favourite just yet. I love this episode so much, maybe just because of David Tennant and Adam Garcia. And the Sycorax are freaking awesome in my eyes, that whip thingy is what Indiana Jones wishes he had.
Also, it's soooo hard not to accidently put spoilers in here. Gaaaah.
Mark, you have reignited my love for Doctor Who and released my inner geek, and for that I thank you.
Yeah – my brain realised I was recognising The Lion King just like they realised they were hearing English from the Sycorax… I have never been so happy!
He saved the world in his jimjams. He's very Arthur Dent.
A couple of clarification points.
Rose lives in London, not Cardiff, although it's usually been filmed in Cardiff, pretending to be London. The only episodes so far set in Cardiff are "The Unquiet Dead" (filmed in Swansea, not Cardiff – it doesn't look Victorian enough) and Boom Town (both set and filmed there).
The Pilot Fish thing is a fairly typical bit of RTD exposition. The script doesn't really explain it, you're left to work it out for yourself. He's quite keen on that sort of thing, which some people find frustrating. Usually, I like it. This is how I see it: the Sycorax aren't interested in the Doctor's energy, they head towards Earth because they intercept the Mars probe. The Pilot Fish just go where the Sycorax are headed, never getting too far away – it's them who are interested in the Doctor's energy. The Pilot Fish don't work for the Sycorax, they just tag along, scavenging.
If you want to see the Doctor as Jesus, sort of, you need to check out "The Second Coming" written by Russell T Davies and starring Christopher Eccleston. Davies is an atheist so his take on things is quite interesting. It's only in two parts. It got a DVD release in the US, so Netflix may have. I just looked on Amazon to see if it had been released and I see that people are selling it for a couple of dollars:
http://www.amazon.com/Second-Coming-Annabelle-Aps…
It might be worth a pop at that price…
(Or alternatively, last I checked the whole thing is on YouTube for free 😉 *is clearly shameless when it comes to catching up on awesome tv*)
Ooh thanks, I hadn't check. *is shameless too*
Of course it took me so long to type all that that I'm the millionth person to tell you it's London,sorry!
I hope it's not too annoying…
I think that "RTD exposition" is really just a plot hole, to be honest. RTD relies on things being so exciting and character-driven that you ignore the plots – this is why a lot of people really, really hate his writing. (I personally love it, but enjoy it on a different level than most television.)
I always find it interesting that many modern books/TV series that are accused of being "too religious" in one way or another are created by atheists. I think the "Doctor = Jesus" that you see with Ten is in some ways a valid complaint (and it's usually presented as a complaint) takes on a different light when you remember that RTD is an atheist.
I disagree, it's only a plot hole if you're given all the information and it doesn't make sense. RTDs storytelling is more often an imperfect view of an odd universe, which I find refreshingly different to the over-explained "world building" science fiction mode.
Often when people cry "plot holes" they've either not paid attention or they've constructed a scenario that doesn't make sense from the scant information that's there rather than constructing one that does make sense.
Anyway, this probably isn't a productive place to talk about this as specifics will only be spoilers. I keep meaning blog an attempt at a technical analysis of the storytelling in Doctor Who, maybe one day I will.
It's possible to come up with all sorts of theories to explain plot discrepancies that can fit the information we're given (and fans do), but that's just sort of patching the plot hole. You made up a bit of information for your explanation; in the bit where Mickey looks up pilot fish, it was implied that the Sycorax were following the Santas, not the other way around.
And there are more problems; if the Doctor's regeneration energy attracts hostile aliens like this, why has it never happened before when he regenerated on Earth? What I mean about RTD's plot holes is that the information you're given often doesn't fit the situation if you think about it too hard. But again – it doesn't bother me very much. As you said, it's a different kind of storytelling. I wouldn't be much bothered about a lack of character development in an adventure movie, say, either.
"in the bit where Mickey looks up pilot fish, it was implied that the Sycorax were following the Santas, not the other way around. "
It's not implied, you inferred it. Pilot fish follow the big fish not the other way around.
"And there are more problems; if the Doctor's regeneration energy attracts hostile aliens like this, why has it never happened before when he regenerated on Earth? "
Who cares? That's not a plot hole – it's a unhealthy attachment to the apparent continuity of a programme that's been making it up as it goes along for almost fifty years. You may as well ask why a watcher doesn't turn up every time the Doctor regenerates.
Easy answer – the Doctor hasn't swallowed the vortex before and the regeneration hasn't gone wrong in the same way before. And anyway it wasn't the Doctor's energy that attracts the Sycorax to Earth, the Pilot Fish just pick up on it once they're close enough.
How was that even a plot hole? Everything was explained. The Sycorax heard Earth being "noisy" (as the Doctor tells Harriet Jones later), showed up, found the blood, and were opportunistic about it. The "pilot fish" are space vermin, like how wherever humans go, we bring a menagerie of rats and fleas and lice and whatnot. Makes sense that they'd be trailing around after the Sycorax, and makes sense that they'd try to scavenge whatever they could, the Doctor's energy included. This isn't the first time the Doctor's unique energy has been a target–look at The Savages and The Tenth Planet, both First Doctor serials…I think from 1966-ish?
Thanks, you put it better than I do.
Thankyou. That is brilliant! I have never seen that before.
Although it does contain lots of clips from future episodes, they're so fast and completely random moments, so they're not really spoilerish.
I don't know if it counts as spoilers, because they don't have any dialogue or anything really important, but there are a few clips from future episodes.
I really can't side with Ten on his decision to oust Harriet Jones. She had a point, after all. I don't agree with her decision, but I can see where she was coming from and know it must have been a tough decision to make. And she was meant to be Prime Minster for three successive terms, remember? Architect of Britain's Golden Age? But, fuck it- SHE DISAGREED WITH TEN AND MUST GO DOWN IN FLAMES. And notice how not one person calls Ten out on this?
This kind of thing… well, spoilers. But Ten is really not one of my favourite Doctors.
Yeah. She dared to go against him, to think she knew better, and she immediately got shot down. My eyebrows shot right up when I saw what the Doctor did.
Yeah it is a bit hypocritical but I liked the manipulative way he did it. He just made an innocent comment that happened to destroy an entire political career. Human politics must seem very simple to Time Lord politics, imagine an election campaign with two time travelling politicians.
It was hardly an innocent comment. It was calculated to cause Harriet's fall from power, and it apparently worked, as people were talking about a vote of no confidence before the end of the freakin' day. He knew exactly what he was doing.
It's worth noting that the destruction of the Sycoraxic Ship and the "Doesn't she look tired" riff are both references to Margaret Thatcher's period in office. The Sinking Of The Belgrano/Her Decline respectivly.
Not to mention that he's slightly telepathic. How difficult would it have been to subtly influence people into thinking "Oh, wow, she does look tired!"
Idk. I wouldn't want a leader of my country who just preemptively goes in and kills people (no ty, George W Bush) without waiting to see if diplomacy would work. The Doctor made the deal with the Sycorax. There's no reason to believe that it wouldn't work, really.
No reason? The Sycorax leader went back on his promise to the Doctor almost right away. Clearly he wasn't honorable. Who knows about the rest of them.
It was a tough call, for sure. I don't know that it was right, but I don't know that it was wrong either.
Yeah, Ten is my least favorite of the three New Who Doctors, easily, and this special has always been a factor in why.
It's kinda interesting following along with Mark as it's giving me a chance to work out where my dislike of Ten (not the actor, Tennant is great) comes from and I think you're right, this is definately part of it. Not the fact he acts like a self-righteous git (says he trying to use words suitable for a family show) but that there's never any discussion of it… Rose was after all there when 9 babbled on about Harriet and the Golden Age, surely even she should have realised there may be an issue with taking her down like this and at least mentioned it?
Guh, how many weeks until we get to 11?
Too many. 🙁 At least there are some episodes coming up I do really like a lot despite Ten's presence in them (not naming names, obviously). And yeah, I have nothing against Tennant, he is fantastic and seems like a genuinely cool guy, I just can't stand his character. Which is sad, after all the good I'd heard, I wanted to like him. But. 🙁
"Guh, how many weeks until we get to 11?"
Far, far too many.
TYSFM
This is one of the biggest reasons why I can't really enjoy Ten or his character.
Yay, it's not just me who never liked that! I also thought it was not cool. Arguments could be made for both sides, and it would be fine for him to not like what she did, but to do what he then does, ESPECIALLY after he went on and on about how she was such a great PM in the history of Earth, etc. Like, what the hell man? You helped get her to where she is and now that you disagree with one decision she makes to protect her nation and Earth as a whole, you get to decide it's time for her to get knocked down? Really? It was a jerkface moment for Ten.
(but, not without its repercussions for him, so I was glad that it didn't just happen and that was that)
I see it more as a reaction of extreme disappointment on Ten's part. He remembers the Slitheen adventure, and what he knows from history and her presiding over the Golden Age of Britain when he realizes where he knew the name. So then when she goes and destroys the Sycorax, she's gone and fucked that all up royally and he's so very disappointed in her.
TEN! I am so excite! I am glad you loved it. Yes, Ten for all of his manic lightheartedness, can be much more scary than CE IMO.
What did you think of the "Song for Ten" that was played when he was choosing his wardrobe? I love that song. Listen to the lyrics, they really fit "Have a good life, do it for me."
Also, YES, WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE
I used to have that song and then I lost it. I had the episode version and then a different version with another singer but you could hear all the lyrics in that one. I'm so sad, it's such a great song.
I can send you the soundtrack version/"full" version if you give me your email! (Does this site have PMs…? I have no idea.)
I think it's precisely *because* of his lighter touch that when he flashes with anger, it's a real jolt. It comes out of nowhere. One second it's "stupid old satsuma" and the next second it's *BAM* "No second chances."
Love "Song for Ten"! But don't listen to the soundtrack version, because they added a verse that's spoilery for the end of series 2.
You're right, I meant he should just listen to the song played in this episode.
The timeline for watching Torchwood and Dr Who at the same time would be to watch one episode of Torchwood and then 3 or 4 episodes of Dr Who to wash the brain taste out of your memory. Just IMO obviously. In all seriousness it's just so tonally different from Dr Who that you would get mood whiplash and it doesn't really "tie in" at all since Season 2 of Dr Who is set before Torchwood and Season 3 after all of Torchwood (I think, bloody time travel makes it hard to be sure).
Hahaha, agreed. I only watched s1 of Torchwood and I only like a couple of episodes. I've heard great things about Children of Earth but yeah. I'm not trying it yet.
The only thing with Children of Earth is you have to have seen all of Series Two of Torchwood, otherwise you'll be a bit confused about some things. But CoE is absolutely worth watching, IMO.
I've watched Torchwood 1 and 2, but I've been putting off Children of Earth. I know its supposedly amazing, and I know how it ends- but geez, I'm not good with excessive angst.
You really have to watch Torchwood season 1 after DW season 2 and TW season 2 after DW season 3, or Torchwood severely spoils for its parent show.
"God bless the Doctor."
Really? You don't think she had a point? Not that I'm pro-murdering aliens or anything, but she made a very good point about why she did what she did: The Doctor isn't always around to save the earth, so someone has to step up and do the dirty work while he's gone. That's Harriet Jones, Prime MInister.
Apparently my comment is too long, so…splitting it.
And the Sycorax would've gone back out to the stars, told the other aliens about earth, but do you really think they'd have told them it was defended? Especially when it isn't for large chunks of time while the Doctor's off gallavanting with his chavvy squeeze? I'm not saying what Harriet did was 100% morally right. Not by a long shot. But she was in a difficult position and made a difficult choice on behalf of the people who elected her, democratically. The Doctor is not now, nor has he ever been elected by the people of Earth. He shows up sometimes, and he meddles. She did what she felt like she had to do in order to ensure the continuing safety of her people in his absense. I imagine she probably regretted having to do it and it can't have been an easy choice, but was it necessary? Probably. "God bless the Doctor," indeed.
I disagree because I think it's awful to do such a damning thing based on might. It leads to a lot of slippery slopes. If they have the technology to defend themselves now, use it when you need to. Shooting the Sycorax like that was like shooting a man in the back.
I definitely agree it's a slippery slope. And, as I said in another post, the Doctor's actions only annoy me a little.
But I just can't blame Harriet for what she did. They had murdered people and threatened to murder millions more and enslave the whole world. They didn't because…one man in pajamas won a sword fight. And she's supposed to assume that's going to be enough to keep these specific aliens, who are now humiliated and probably very grouchy, from coming back and finishing what they already started?
It's like…I didn't support the war in Iraq because it was based on what ifs. But the Sycarax had already shown murderous intent. If Al Qaeda was all in one place, somewhere on the move like in a plane or on a boat or something, and there was no way to apprehend them, should we shoot a missile and take them down or hope that they don't keep trying to inflict violence on us?
The thing is, Earth doesn't have technology to defend itself. That blaster beam (which took hours to set up and looks like it probably consumes massive amounts of energy which means it probably can't be used continuously for very long or very often) is offensive. There's nothing to stop the Sycarax or anyone else from firing off their own beams or bombs. Earth has no shields. If they came back, we could shoot at them from London, and everywhere else on the entire Earth is a shooting gallery for the aliens.
I don't want it to sound like I was cheering her on, because I wasn't. It was a horrible thing to do. But I absolutely understand why she did it and I don't blame her.
Goddamn you're intelligent (@Paragraph 4 especially). I probably should have read this first before typing out my giant textwall of a comment.
They didn't, not really. And you'll find out more about that technology if you ever watch Torchwood.
But here's what bothers me the most about what the Doctor did: Harriet Jones was elected by her constituents in a democratic election. The Doctor is an outsider who has no right to make decisions for Earth because he's neither from Earth or an elected representative of Earth. So not only does he come off all high and mighty against her when he has no idea what the people who elected her would say, BUT, then he goes and meddles to get her forced out of office like he has that right. She was a democratically elected official and he went dictator on her ass.
I know I sound like I hate the Doctor, and I promise you, I don't. One of my favorite things about Ten is 1) How much of a hypocrite he is, and 2) How high and mighty and morally better he thinks he is from everyone around him. When really, he has very little right to make those kinds of decisions.
Regardless of whether or not you think Harriet should've shot those Sycorax out of the sky, the repercussions of her decision should've been enacted against her by the people who voted her into office, not a Time Lord with a Jesus complex.
And I think it's awful for a powerful space alien to overturn a democratically elected human government because oooh, they dared to defy him. I'm not saying Harriet was right. But hoo boy does the Doctor's high-handedness piss me off here.
Mark, this is why ILY. I thought the same thing.
Yes. When I first watched the episode, my thought was that the Doctor was far too hard on Harriet Jones (…Prime Minister. Formerly of Flydell North *flashes ID*), but I may have changed my mind.
I actually think the reason the Doctor found such fault in her actions is not so much based on the "might" factor (because goodness knows he has seen what certain violent races are capable of), but the fact that she, as one other commenter said, basically shot them in the back when they were retreating. I don't remember if you see this in the ninth doctor, as it's been about a year since I've seen series 1, but there's a huuuuge honor streak in Ten, not to mention a severe dislike of violence and firepower. And I think that's what got him. She used missiles that are kind of huge and explodey and could probably be better used for more pressing dangers than retreating aliens (such as…er…aliens that are -invading-) but in themselves are horrible devices (YMMV), against a species that was no longer a threat to humans at that time. Not to mention, being a veteran of the Time War, he knows firsthand the effect that sort of destruction can have. And he doesn't think a person who would take those sorts of measures should be in charge; and all-in-all, I think he could have done far worse to her than set up a chain of events that leads to her losing her job as Prime Minister. I don't believe she even loses it in disgrace, either (but, like I said, it's been a while since I've seen these earlier episodes), and if a simple suggestion that she's tired can cause her credibility to crumble like that…well, I don't think she had very strong political foundations and sure, die-hard support to begin with, then.
There is, of course, the question of whether or not he had the right to interfere at all, regardless of his beliefs. But really, he just risked his ass and got his arm chopped off trying to save the citizens of Earth and resolve the situation with as little bloodshed as possible, and that's what he did. And Earth went and blew them out of the sky anyway. (QUESTION: why didn't they do that -to begin with- if they had the capability?) In a way, it's sort of a slap in the face: all that work was for nothing, because a good few hundred people (Sycorax people, but people) died anyway. Even so, does all that give him the right to punish Harriet Jones? I'm not sure.
btdubs, gaiz, if I'm factually wrong anywhere, call me out on it. It's been a while.
Ugh, disregard my question about the blaster beam. I need to learn to read, fo realz.
DON'T WATCH THIS MARK!
Seriously, come on folks, Mark isn't even watching the next time trailers, don't post videos that cover stuff from the next three series!
This is a music video. There is nothing to identify episodes or people. I don't think it qualifies as a spoiler.
THE DOCTOR HAS APPARENTLY MET ARTHUR DENT. Best part of the episode to me. Does this mean that the Hitchhiker universe and the Whoniverse are one and the same? Because that is both amazing and sort of makes sense.
I must say though, I don't agree with the Doctor basically getting rid of Harriet Jones. It's not like she destroyed the Planet of Cute and Defenseless Puppies. She blew up a spaceship full of highly aggressive aliens who had just tried to enslave all the inhabitants of Earth. They might have been leaving, but in all likelihood, they were off to find a a planet not defended by a manic guy in pyjamas wielding a broadsword. Not the Doctor's way, sure, but she's right. He's not always around. I'm on Harriet's side on this one.
I kind of got the impression that the Sycorax didn't target Earth specifically, but got contacted by the probe, realized it had come from a pretty unadvanced planet, and figured, "Hey! Free slaves, great!" Could be wrong though.
Oh, and the tea part. Definitely the most British plot twist ever. Also Jackie announcing that she was going to make tea when they were hiding in the TARDIS totally reminds me of my mother. She makes tea during every crisis ever, and she's not even British. She just thinks it's the answer to everything. I'm certain that when the apocalypse comes, she'll look out the window at the mushroom cloud/giant flood/advancing zombie horde, and go put on the kettle.
Hey. Tea heals everything. The Doctor says so. 😉
As I am right at this very moment drinking a cup of tea, I will not argue :-).
Obviously Who and Hitchhiker's Guide are the same universe because Douglas Adams wrote for Doctor Who!
It's very, very fun to see how many other continuities you can fit into the Whoniverse. The answer? Pretty much all of them, giving the flexibility of the Whoniverse rules. (There are canon vampires, witches, and fairies, just for a start.) Also, Ten and Rose cameo in a Buffy the Vampire Slayer comic, and there's an entity called the Federation in old Who that commands galaxy-class starships…
Ha, I knew about the TARDIS cameo in the Season Eight comics, but not the Federation bit. The possibilities inherent in the Whoniverse give me hope that, someday, the TARDIS will land on Serenity and there will be the most epic crossover of all time.
I've also seen the (joking) argument that wizards in the Harry Potter universe are really displaced Time Lords. It largely hinged on Hermione's beaded bag and the tents wizards take camping. They're both bigger on the inside.
HP could totally fit into the Doctor Who mythology easily. This is why I love this show, all crossovers are possible.
I believe I have read that a Trek/Who crossover was a possibility at one point, but unfortunately, they were unable to do after Enterprise was canceled.
Yes, Russell did have an idea for the TARDIS to land on board the Enterprise, which could have been fun. Instead, all we got was a sly dig in The End of the World.
THE DOCTOR: There you go, step outside those doors, it's the twenty-second century. That's a bit boring though, do you want to go further?
I hope they can do this if Star Trek ever comes back to TV. I think it would cause a giant nerd-splosion throughout time and space.
Also, have Whedon write an episode of Who, Please!
The Federation is mentioned in both of the Peladon serials, and the Eighth Doctor novel The Blue Angel contains a rather heavy-handed Star Trek parody that's so similar to the original that it makes you wonder.
Also, wizards live longer than normal humans – just like Time Lords. And might a Metamorphmagus' skills be some remnant from regeneration? A few Time Lords in the show regenerated just for cosmetic purposes…
I think that wizards have just a strain of Time Lord in them. Which would make them the dreaded half human/half time lord, hehe.
Oh man. Seven went back in time and sired a line of human/Time Lord hybrids that became wizards – and one of the earliest ones was Eight, who through a freak of Time Lord biology inherited Seven's memories and hallucinated the whole TV movie! It all makes sense now!
Hah! Perfect. There is also another possibility I am thinking of that involves huge spoilers.
I do believe I know what you're talking about, and I'd wholly support it. 😉
I've heard that at one point they considered (I doubt this means any more deeply than saying "WOULDN'T IT BE AWESOME IF___") a Christmas special with J K Rowling, similar to The Unquiet Dead. I know JKR would never do this but my soul weeps anyway for what might have been.
Dumbledore isn't dead… he just regenerated!
<img src=http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad311/Chritter710/buffydoctor.jpg>
Well, the Whoniverse is certainly compatible with the Dirk Gently books, since one of them has a Timelord and a TARDIS in it (though they are not ever referred to by those names).
I have to admit, I don't blame Harriet Jones, and I was always kind of annoyed at the Doctor overthrowing her. Not, like, a lot, but still.
Yeah, they were leaving. And their leader had literally just demonstrated that they're willing to go back on their word. So Harriet can make the hard decision to shoot down a ship with aliens who may or may not have been planning to actually stay gone, or she can let them go and just rely on hope that they don't come back with a lot more men to kill everyone.
I'm not saying I don't get why the Doctor was mad. Because it was a horribly pragmatic choice. But, as he'd already told us, Harriet Jones was supposed to lead Britain's Golden Age, and he kicks her out because he didn't like that she was defending the Earth not just against the immediate threat but against all the threats that might show up while the Doctor wasn't there to save the day.
Plus…well, I can't say more at this time because SPOILERS, but…
Still, there's a lot to love this episode. The relationship between Jackie and the Doctor never ever fails to put a grin on my face.
The Doctor can't abide murder of any kind, let alone when one party had decided to turn tail and got shot from behind.
"Rude and not ginger." Not much else to say, other than how awesome is the name Lloyd Llewellyn?
Happy Ten and Rose chibi for you: http://go-devil-daisuke.deviantart.com/gallery/23…
Ahh, Ten Ten Ten. <3 I'm so excited for you to see the rest of Tennant's tenure (so many ten puns, so little time). He really is fantastic.
Being an ignorant American, I have no idea what an Estuary English accent is. But I have heard Tennant's real Scottish accent and I find it to be very sexy. 😀
Mark, did you know before watching this that Tennant is the guy who played Barty Crouch Jr. in the fourth Harry Potter movie? He's such a good actor, both Dr. Ten and BC Jr. seem so different.
Yet they both do weird tongue things.
I agree about Tennant's natural Scottish accent, very easy on the ears. Wouldn't mind hearing him read the phone book or the dictionary.
About half of the appeal of watching DW Confidential was listening to Tennant talk in his own voice. I get pretty upset when I think about how Davies told him NOT to use it and to speak in Estuary English, but to each his own, I suppose.
What's fun is listening to some of the DW audio books he's done. He has to put on a voice for his own character. (And if I recall, his Rose voice is brilliant XD)
His Jackie voice is the funniest thing in the world.
His Mickey is appalling, I gotta say.
Dead Air was EXCELLENT.
"Estuary English" is what English sounds like when you don't have an accent 😉
Or, less controversially, it's the accent people from around the Thames Estuary have (London, Essex, Kent…)
Oooh I would not include Essex under the 'Estuary English' regional umbrella. Or at least, not all of Essex. As a county it has one or two very distinct regional accents which sound nothing like Estuary English. *has terrible flashbacks of 'The Only Way Is Essex'*
I have actually gone out of my way to NOT watch "The Only Way Is Essex" 🙂
I know what you mean though, but there are areas of London which have radically different accents too, i.e. any character from Eastenders compared with anyone in Notting Hill. I think of the Notting Hill accent as true "Estuary English"…
Oh, that's interesting. 🙂 Thanks for the education!
After seeing Tennant as Ten, you will never be able to see him as anyone else. This leads to speculation about how he became an insane Death Eater, a possibly-insane Danish prince (taking orders from the ghost of Captain Picard), and a quintessential sleazy ladies' man.
That version of Hamlet is all kinds of awesome. I have some major issues with some aspects of the production (YOU DON'T END THE PLAY BEFORE FORTINBRAS GETS THERE, GODDAMMIT), but the acting is great. I love listening to Patrick Stewart do Shakespeare, they don't train actors like that anymore. His delivery of Claudius' monologue after the play-within-a-play is absolutely mesmerizing.
But if you watch it in the properly geeky frame of mind, it's pretty funny. "LOL Doctor, why are you killing Captain Picard?"
I was lucky enough to see that production of Hamlet live when it was in London and omg. FABULOUS. And I think that when they filmed it for the BBC, even though they changed some things, they managed to translate a lot of what they were trying to do from stage to film. David Tennant and Patrick Stewart were both completely fabulous.
Oh my god, I'm so very jealous. I'd love to know what things they changed for the filmed version. Well, some of it takes place outside and other places not a stage, so there's that, but it would be interesting to know what else changed.
I saw the RSC do Hamlet about 10 years ago (different production obviously) and it wasn't very good. Missed the really good one! Though I did see another production of Hamlet in the States this summer which was probably the best I've ever seen. They also played up the humorous aspects, which I really like. Hamlet's got some absolutely hysterical parts, given the right actor and director. These two productions really made good use of those parts to make the dark, violent aspects of the play hit you even harder when they happen.
Anyway, /detrailment/. I can go on about Shakespeare for even longer than I can go on about Doctor Who.
lol. I adore Shakespeare too. I double majored in undergrad and English was one of my majors and I miss it so much. I took 3 different Shakespeare classes and then another one on Renaissance theater in general. I am cool.
I looked through my lj really hard to try and find if I posted a reaction post to when I watched the BBCs taping of Hamlet, but I couldn't find it. 🙁 I DID, however, find my reaction post to when I went to see the play. Copy and Pasting here for you:
"I just got back from Hamlet and WOW. I am in love with the set design. I thought it was brilliant. I adored the way they used only flashlights and the reflective surfaces to light the faces of the actors in the opening scene. I was also a huge fan of the Polonius. I thought he was great. David Tennant was brilliant, of course. I think he did a really great job of bringing out Shakespeare's wit and plays on words.
I'm not sure how I feel about where they put the intermission. I think that this production didn't really emphasize Hamlet's doubt or wavering enough to justify sticking the intermission in the middle of the Claudius Praying scene. If they had decided to play up the doubt factor, then it would have made sense to cut the play in half on Hamlet's decision whether to kill the king then and there. But Tennant's Hamlet always seemed so sure of himself and his course of action to me. So I think perhaps the intermission would have been better after "the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king". This production's narrative drive seemed to be more about a power struggle between Hamlet and Claudius, if that makes sense. Like it's more about the plotting and maneuvering than Hamlet's inner struggle.
The Gertrude was eh. Patrick Stewart made a good Claudius. The Ophelia was decent, but nothing to write home about. I did however really like the grave digger. I thought he was hilarious. Laertes was good. And I liked what the production did with Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. I thought that scene where they're first introduced and they had Claudius mix up their names was funny and kind of meta-theatrically pointing out how they're often interchangeable.
I was a little sad that they decided to cut the Fortinbras stuff, but most productions do. I just kind of really like the undercurrent of political instability that that adds to the play. That subplot brings it out of a personal tragedy and makes it a national tragedy in the sense that the death of Hamlet's father and having a bad (and illegitimate) king on the throne has led to political strife which is again seen with the whole crowd supporting Laertes thing.
All in all, I enjoyed it a lot. And I really love love love seeing different productions of Hamlet and seeing how they interpret all the ambiguities. Like does Gertrude know the cup is poisoned? Is Hamlet being overheard during the "to be or not to be" speech? And if he is, is he aware of it (thus making that famous speech just part of his antic disposition)?"
Anyway, one of the things I remember loving about the BBC's taping of it was the way that they used security cameras which mimicked the perspective that a theater go-er would have. And I liked the way that they managed to incorporate the broken mirror into the later scenes. In the play, it was actually a part of the set that was cracked, but they managed to bring it into the filmed version pretty well, I though. And I liked the way that they had David Tennant film himself when he was giving a soliloquy towards the end in order to give it that more personal feeling that a soliloquy has in a theater setting that would be missing in most filmed versions. Oh and the way that sometimes it felt like David Tennant was addressing the audience/camera. I just thought it was very clever about toeing the line between theater and television.
Thanks for posting that! What did you think of Horatio? I thought he was well done, they ensured that he and Hamlet had a good rapport going. A lot of productions don't bother, which I think is sort of sad. What got me about this Claudius was that he was almost likable. Almost.
I could go on for hours about the last production I saw, which did some amazing things with Hamlet and Gertrude (but not in Mel Gibson's Hamlet way, God forbid) and featured possibly the best Ophelia in the history of Shakespeare. But I will refrain :-).
OMG, so jealous!
I had to sit outside in below and near freezing weather for 4-5 hours for the tickets. BUT TOTALLY WORTH IT.
Oh, I love Tennant as Hamlet– I'm really glad you guys mentioned it! Hamlet isn't my favorite Shakespeare play by a long shot, but I loved the movie version of this production (which I referred to as simply 'Sci Fi Hamlet' when I geeked out after finding out about it on Netflix). I'd seen a few of the different versions before– Ken Branaugh, Mel Gibson, Ethan Hawke– and this BBC version is may absolute favorite, no contest.
Oh crap. Now I want them to meet. And the T.S. Relativity can come help out the Timelord.
Who wants to write my fanfiction? 😉
Estuary English is, roughly, somewhere between Received Pronunciation (posh English) and the more common, stereotypical London accent. (I'm deliberately not saying Cockney because the version of Cockney that tends to be exported to the States is a travesty and nobody actually speaks like that. True Cockney is different.)
Estuary is mainly found around the South and West of London and is noticeable mainly by dropped letters (like missing 't' off the end or middle of words like hit and litter). It's seen as slightly common but is becoming mainstream as a 'not-too-posh-but-not-too-regional' accent.
Estuary is my accent and I love it, but Davies should have let Ten be Scottish. The whole not wanting the Doctor to 'tour the regions' is just a polite way of saying the Doctor should stay English.
I can't edit: I should've said the areas around the South and West of London, not just in the city itself.
It took me about three episodes to settle in with David Tennant as the Doctor. It probably didn't help that he slept through half of this episode, and he's still trying to figure out who he is. Who he is, though, is a fantastic Doctor!
I love the scene with the Doctor trying to tell Jackie what he needs, and Jackie keeps interrupting to ask what he needs. Tennant is outstanding with verbal fireworks, and Camille Coduri is right with him, syllable for syllable.
Also loved the Arthur Dent callout, for the Doctor in pajamas and bathrobe.
"Rude and ginger." Anyone know the origin of that line? (Lots of noise in Bing when I search on it.) I know that Dylan Thomas used it in Under Milkwood, but there no guarantee that it was original there. (And being a good Welsh production, they do quote Dylan Thomas from time to time.)
The new hand is a bit creepy, too.
I love the Doctor fighting the Sycorax leader in his pyjamas and defeating him. I love Mickey and Rose and Jackie. Your confusion is understandable: the series is filmed in Cardiff but SET in London. Yeah. Apart from a few location shots, nobody was fooled. I don't like what the Doctor did with Harriet Jones, though. Not at all. It's arrogant and it rubbed me the wrong way. Not a good start.
"THE MOST BRITISH PLOT TWIST OF ALL TIME"
FUCK YEAAAAHHHHHH
Awesome special, probably my favourite. Though I don't really like the Christmas specials, so… doesn't say much. 😛
(Just a note- the Tylers & Smiths live in London, not Cardiff. Cardiff is just where the Rift is. No one really know why.)
EDIT: oh, okay, pretty much everyone has brought this up already. NEVER MIIIIND 🙂
heh. Cardiff is where the Rift is because Doctor Who is filmed there. I think that's pretty much the only reason.
Yeah, pretty much XD That, and it's a pretty cool area anyway, regardless of it being the filming location 🙂
Part of the problem with the situation at the end is that the whole situation of a female PM ordering an enemy ship to be shot as it moves away is such an obvious Belgrano ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano ) reference as to be crass, especially since the only real similarity between Thatcher and Harriet Jones is that they're both women.
I do believe it's London, not Cardiff.
Lion King quote = best. thing. ever.
Just so you know Mark, if you look closely during the TARDIS wardrobe scene, you can see something from another Doctor that you might recognize from "City of Death"
I believe there's also a Hogwarts uniform in there. With a Gryffindor scarf, amusingly enough.
REALLY?!? Well, I never knew that, awesome. David Tennant's Casanova costume is also in there.
On the DVD Commentary, RTD mentions with mock-disgust how the crew seemed to spend more time setting up the wardrobe than practically any other scene in the show! Everybody wanted various items in the shot to the point where even RTD was going "come on guys". Then Phil Collinson piped up as to how pleased he was that David Tennant was wearing the scarf that he (Phil) had contributed, which she'd knotted for him as a kid. Nice touch that the Doctor has an ironing board in the wardrobe room!
Oh, and at one point Ten picks up and looks at a Casanova jacket…
I paused that scene and looked at as much as I could but I just couldn't make much out. But I am looking for Hogwarts now! I don't know what a Casanova jacket looks like…
The Casanova jacket it's the red one with gold strips towards the middle, he takes from the hanger, holds it to his chest and looks at it as if considering.
… now I have to watch it again to look for that.
I have read that every previous Doctor's costume was in that wardrobe room, but I don't know if they all appeared on screen. And I love the look at more the new TARDIS. I always wish they showed more of the inside of the TARDIS in New Who.
>For the opening “episode” for the Tenth Doctor, we return to a place of familiarity: Cardiff.
Apart from it being London, that's a good point. In fact, it's the same `zoom in to earth` opening shot as Rose, which, apart from getting maximum value for money on the FX shots, worked well thematically, saying, `New Doctor, New story but same man and same show`.
Mark, I have been waiting for you to get onto series 2 forever, because Ten is my absolute favourite of all time ever.
Forgot to add in my earlier comment…
Lastly, I love that Ten uses Nine's favorite descriptor at the end of the episode. "And it's going to be…fantastic." Kind of like a last little farewell to the Ninth Doctor.
Have you seen that deleted scene where he talks about how "fantastic" doesn't fit right with the new teeth? For some reason when I watched this episode the first time, this bit was in there, and when I brought it up in discussion later people would be like "what are you talking about, that never happened". And to this day it is not, apparently, on youtube, so I figured I had just hallucinated the entire thing until someone confirmed that it is in fact on the s2 DVDs.
I know it was definitely on YouTube at one point because I can remember watching it. 😛 but investigating now hasn't found it for me, all I can track down are the outtakes. (Which I had forgotten how hilarious they are!) It was an awesome little scene though, fabulous transition from the Ninth Doctor to the Tenth.
I'll have to pop in my DVDs and watch it again, I'm curious now about what words he cycles through and if any crop up later. I have a suspicion one of them might but am not sure off the top of my head.
Christopher Eccleston picked up "Fantastic!" from RTD, who uses it all the time.
I was just re-watching Coupling the other night, and I noted the usage of Eleven's catchword in episode 2 of season 1 in a hilarious context. I laughed and laughed. Oh, Steven Moffat! You are so brilliant!
I'm looking forward to seeing your thoughts on Ten, Mark. I remember during my first viewing of these four seasons, I absolutely ate it all up. Every episode was absolutely captivating. I will say this: my opinions have definitely changed over time. However, that's just what happens when you've seen it all already. Sometimes we forget how magical it is to see it the first time. But you can see it. And when you can see it, Mark, I (and all your other readers) can see it.
And that is the allure of the Mark Does blogs. =)
Rewatching with someone else is an interesting experience, especially if it's after multiple rewatches. You've lost the initial squee and the I love this episode rewatch and sometimes start to see things differently, whether it's influence of later episodes or noticing something for the first time. It's great fun and I for one am loving it.
yes! just caught a rerun on BBC America of an episode Ive watched at least 4 or more times before, but today I totally caught something that had not been remarked on before but after watching 11's season three times now, I finall caught it and went HOLY SHIT! THEY ARE FRAKKING BRILLIANT IN HOW THEY RUN THIS SHOW!!!!
hopefully someone will remind me of this so we can fully discusss a the end of 11's first season (is that S6?)
It's series 5. The 4 episodes between series 4 and 5 don't count as an actual series, they tend to just be referred to as The Specials.
11's first season is Season 5. Season 6('s first half) will begin in a few months. And yeah, S5 is great for repeated watching. Way better than any previous season, most definitely.
If no one's posted it yet, you should really watch this clip for another take on the Doctor at Christmas. It's very funny and not spoiler-y at all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35uYgSYXtfA
(Their Ten isn't great, but Nine and Four are awesome!)
Now that's bang out of order! You know all of his villains were made out of tinfoil!
Honestly, I kind of hate Ten and loathe this special, but I'm glad you're enjoying things so far. XD
If anyone is familiar with Tim Minchin…
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/jff38y.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
LOL. TIM MINCHIN.
TY FOR THIS. MADE MY AFTERNOON.
Love Tim Minchin, he is so fucking rock! 😉
I only just saw him the first time when Neil Gaiman posted a Christmas song he did a few days ago. But yay, now I can say I know who that is!
As a Christmas special, this episode works really well. It remains my favorite of Tennant's Christmas episodes purely because of his ass-kicking swordfight, all his dialogue toward the Sycorax leader and saving the world WITH A STINKING SATSUMA!!!! It doesn't get any more BAMF than that!
YAY you're onto Ten! Totally agree about Ten being more intimidating then Nine, he can be very scary and go off like a switch.
I really don't like Ten yet. I mean, I'm sure I'll warm up to him and all that, and I did like parts (Lion King speech was epic), but overall… Meh. Still a Nine girl here.
I did like seeing how he and Nine are different. The whole thing with Harriet Jones? I don't think Nine would have done it like that. He might have found a way to bring down her administration, but it wouldn't have been with six words. That would've been too subtle for Nine.
Know you feel there, that was my reaction to Ten when I first saw this too.
So glad I'm not alone! 😀
Far from! =D
You are not alone.
"I suppose the thought never really crossed my mind, but this show presents the idea that there is probably not a living thing that has affected the entire universe in a more positive manner than the Doctor."
mark, keep in mind that "positive" is a subjective term. The Sycorax and Slitheen would disagree, and as you've pointed out in your reviews, death does seem to follow the Doctor. For sure he has been a huge influence, and in the nature of the series, the Doctor is portrayed as the protagonist, so we the audience root for him over those that go up against him. I'll even grant he has the best intentions in most cases.
This is very true. We've already seen in series 1 that the Doctor sometimes harms more than he helps. This is explored in much greater depth in the expanded universe. It could be argued that Eight especially causes a lot more damage than he fixes.
"Harriet Jones, Prime Minister." "Yes, I/we know who you are."
"So they might not be actual Martians." "Of course not. Martians look completely different."
Lion King!
Ginger!
So many lovely quotes here 🙂
Completely random comment but I have to say I'm very happy that one of the first serious discussions over differences in opinion has been about the Doctor, Harriet Jones and the morality of their decisions. I was expecting it to be about shipping or views on main characters or something similar (I'm already seeing some interesting use of the thumbs up and down buttons which should become some fun) but I like the fact that today's discussion shows that the people who comment here are able to discuss all this without descending into wank. It's nice to know how varied and accpeting opinions are here.
Yay for Tenth Doctor episodes!
Much like Four, he puts on this air of being unable to control his mouth and of being a little bit special, only to unleash the epic badassery out of nowhere. Well, that, and they're both made of eyes and teeth and loud.
…Ten is prettier though. Sorry. I had to have a teeny fangirl moment. This is David Tennant we're talking about.
"…they're both made of eyes and teeth and loud."
What a fantastic way of describing them. I love it!
(And, yes, Ten is prettier.)
Also, when he changes tack in the middle of a sentence, he does exactly what Four did, kind of tilts his head and goes "Welll…". Since Tennant is a Doctor Who fanboy from way back, I'm sure he must have taken that one off Tom Baker.
YES. I saw that when I saw that classic ep that Mark just watched. I saw the 'Weeeeell' and I went "David Tennant!" Haha, glad I wasn't just making it up.
You're not hallucinating :-). Both of them do it a lot.
"…they're both made of eyes and teeth and loud."
THIS. When Ten is sad, I am sad, because it's all in those eyes, and then he opens up his mouth and I'm usually not sad anymore heh.
Ooh, something I noticed while rewatching the episode today is that when you get some wide shots of London, you see Big Ben, and it's got scaffolding on the top of it, around the clock itself, because it's being fixed after the spaceship drove through it in "Aliens of London." Such a tiny detail, really, but I love that they put that in.
Ha, I didn't see that. That's brilliant!
Interesting fact though; Big Ben is actually the name of the bell, not the tower.
"Rude, not Ginger" = line so awesome my oldest has a t-shirt that says so.
I used to call my children on rudeness by giving them the 'Mom' look and saying "rude". That stopped (the word "rude", not calling them out on bad behavior) when they'd answer with, "Not Ginger." Everyone laughing and doing Doctor Who quotes kinda screws up the whole discipline vibe. 😀
gah, TEN. i was so upset when he came aboard…but then he sort of charms you into submission.
I just gifted a friend of mine with season 2 of Doctor Who for Christmas. Three days later, she was done with it. 😛 SHE LOVED IT. And what made me so much happier is that SHE LOVED IT for the same reasons I LOVED IT. It sort of makes me squee a little inside that I gave her her first Doctor, and her first Doctor was Tennant.
And yes, I know I should probably have started her on season 1, but I didn't actually think she would watch it all in one go. She's pretty busy and I just wanted her to own some of my favorite episodes ever. Apparently I was wrong. They have Netflix so I hope she goes back to watch the rest.
The problem with him bringing down the Prime Minister is not that what she did was right, but that bringing down a Prime Minister like that is just wrong. It seemed like a very entitled thing to do: I am the Doctor and I don't like the decision your leader made so I'm going to use the media etc to bring her down rather than, you know, letting the actual PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE decide what to do about her.
I suppose the argument should be: does the Doctor earn the right to interfere with domestic issues because of all the help he's given with end-of-the-world-doom-apocalypse issues? Is that his perogative as frequent saviour of the world or is it super paternalistic to always assume he knows best in peacetime?
More importantly, could I possibly be a bigger geek about this?
The thing is… the people did decide what to do with her. The Doctor never took her down directly.
Here's the wardrobe room:
<img src="http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5624/453071016super.jpg">
Lots of references to old costumes there, as well as Tennant's Casanova costume and a Harry Potter scarf. I think the ironing board is a reference to "Look Back in Anger" which he starred in before starting on Doctor Who.
It's definitely Steven Taylor's jumper from "The Celestial Toymaker" hanging up:
<img src="http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9098/steven.jpg">
and here's Tennant in his Casanova costume:
<img src="http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7347/tennant.jpg">
The Tom Baker style scarf that he has draped around his neck is one that producer Phil Collinson had knitted for him when he was a child.
Thank you so much for this.
Is that the Gryffindor scarf towards the left?
Yep. It's a Barty Crouch Jr. in joke (I don't know enough to know if they picked the right house or not, though).
"Look Back in Anger" ! You're right, I never thought of that.
OMG Casanova so hot.
I had another look around and here's a complete set of wardrobe scene screencaps, from this brilliant site:
http://drwhotht10.freehostingcloud.com/8o-c/index…
<img src="http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/565/d108oc326.jpg">
<img src="http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/7757/d108oc327.jpg">
<img src="http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4585/d108oc329.jpg">
<img src="http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3685/d108oc330.jpg">
<img src="http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8061/d108oc331.jpg">
<img src="http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7118/d108oc332.jpg">
<img src="http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/522/d108oc333.jpg">
<img src="http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1126/d108oc335.jpg">
<img src="http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3193/d108oc336.jpg">
You can see the Casanova costume and the Collinson scarf in those.
Welcome to the land of Tennant, Mark. You thought season one was wild? Just wait.
I only have one thing to say about this episode:
"I'M GONNA GET KILLED BY A CHRISTMAS TREE!"
I'm glad you like ten Mark! I like this episode, it's very silly, daft and Christmassy. David Tennant yay! http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=25asugi&s=3&a…
Here's a list of awesomeness from The Christmas Invasion:
– David Tennant wearing jim jams.
– David Tennant wearing a dressing gown.
– David Tennant wearing his smexy suit.
– David Tennant wearing his smexy hero coat.
– David Tennant wearing Converse trainers. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=34imqva&s=3&a…
– David Tennant's smile when he walks through the door. *fangasm*
– Billie's smile when the Doctor walks through the door. She has a smile that could light up the universe!
Can you totes tell that i'm a David Tennant fan girl? 😀
The boy with a thorn in his siiiideee
Sorry, I was spying your gifs. Blackpool is fantastic.
*happy sigh*
I have been waiting for Ten… I only went back and watched Nine to feel I deserved the Ten…
When he reralised he was quoting The Lion King I nearly wet myself.
I still cannot stand Rose, but I can ignore her when there is Ten to flail over.
Yes! I'm so glad you're enjoying this, Mark. 11 is my personal favorite doctor, but Tennant's Doctor is a very close second.
Also, in celebration of you starting season 2 of Doctor Who, here's a little treat I found on Tumblr:
<img src="http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/iconmania/hedwigdoctor.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
LOL FOREVER.
Well this is just the best of all the things.
I find your views interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Here, you have won an internet.
Excellent 21st birthday gift right here!
Ten is definitely my Doctor (though Matt Smith is actually managing to compete for my affections, which I didn't think would be possible), and it was really exciting to watch his first episode again. I'd forgotten about the Lion King moment, which I loved. But basically I am so happy that I am going to be watching David Tennant daily for a while to keep up with your reviews, as it's been a while since I've seen him. 😀
Something about Ten's fight with the Sycorax leader atop the space ship feels very old school Doctor Who to me, and I'm not sure why I should think that because I haven't seen very much of the old series. I loved it, though. And I love Ten and the Arthur Dent reference.
I also love that the reason we still have Doctor Who is that way back in 1966, William Hartnell was too ill to continue, but the show was too successful to cancel, so they invented the concept of Regeneration, which resulted in a programme that can theoretically run forever, even with all the actors changing out every few years. Brilliant concept.
There's some top notch sword fighting in "The Sea Devils" and "The Androids of Tara" and "The Curse of Peladon" has a fairly nifty trial by combat.
Apparently Earth is just like alien catnip or something.
There's been a lot of talk about Harriet Jones in the comments (and a lot by me, I seem to have found an issue I won't shut up about) but no one has mentioned her fantastic suit!
I love the jacket. Love love love. Almost as much as Ten. And I think it's a beautiful colour.
Is it just me? Is it because I want to be Harriet Jones when I grow up and that's why I want her wardrobe?
Okay, the "help me" into the Doctor's ear, and then he wakes up thing is totally cheesy.
But Jackie and Harriet Jones FTW.
So the Sycorax whip effect has the skeleton thing similar to the Dalek's beam – the answer is probably that it's a cool effect or they just altered the Dalek effect for time/cost reasons, but wouldn't it be interesting if the technologies were related?
And tea saves the day – that is so British it's kind of overwhelming.
So, TEN'S A SCARY MOFO, Y/Y? The "no second chances" and the "don't you think she looks tired" – but of course it's then followed by a brilliant closet, and a charming Christmas scene and all is forgiven.
Ooh, I am in severe disagreement with you on a couple of things, Mark.
1. I never found Tennant remotely intimidating. So when he grits his teeth and yells and gurns and tries his very hardest to look like a badass it…just doesn't work for me. It's totally a matter of personal preferences though, I know. He'll just always be a cheerful otter to me. 🙂 Ten has a quick trigger finger, and that's scary compared to hesitant Nine, but I find Eccleston scarier as an actor.
2. I found Ten's actions against Harriet Jones to be high-handed, patronizing, and stupid as hell. Remember how she was supposed to be the PM who presided over Britain's Golden Age? Well, goodbye to all that history, all because Ten had a fit of pique. Where Nine hesitated to act, Ten goes far beyond non-hesitation and into recklessness here. He's screwing with history and subverting a democratically elected leader who was trying to keep her people safe.
The thing is, Harriet had a very valid point: Who's going to defend the earth on those days when the Doctor is busy? What would have happened that Christmas if he hadn't recovered from his regeneration just in time? Ten is asking her to keep the Earth in a state of dependence on him instead of letting the planet learn to fend for itself, and I don't really blame her for saying "Fuck that." Shooting the Sycorax in the back may have been an asshole move, but that's not entirely the Doctor's call to make.
Oh, and I thought the swordfight was pretty badly done. BUT. But but but. Even if this is my least favorite season, it's still Doctor Who, so I can always find things to like. Like tea saving the world! And Mickey and Jackie being awesome as usual, and Rose overcoming her pants-wetting fear to try her best to BS a solution to the Sycorax problem. I just really, really got turned off by the resolution of this episode. While I was charmed by Tennant's "new teeth" at the end of the first season, Ten's treatment of Harriet – the utter fucking quasi-colonialist condescension of it – really made me wary of his Doctor, unfortunately.
If I could upvote this more than once, I would. I agree THAT MUCH about everything.
Your least favorite and my favorite. We have much to disagree on!
One of the reasons the season is my favorite is because of one excellent episode that, in my opinion, nearly overshadows all the other episodes of Doctor Who completely. All but maybe one or two.
This Christmas Special is not the best, though. I agree with that.
And since I'm in fencing, all swordfights are equally bad to me.
I can only think of one episode – maybe two – that have a fair probability of being a fan's all-time favorite and aired in the second season, whereas S1 has (I think) at least four that show up a lot in people's favorites. Not that I would presume to know your individual tastes, but…I guess this is my roundabout way of trying to explain why I'm not into S2 without spoiling anything. I just found every other season more memorable – I recall the season arcs better, I can name more individual episodes. It's not that I think S2 represents the worst of television or anything. It's just my least favorite.
Hee hee heee, oh, watching TV swordfights must be so annoying for you. Kind of like watching lawyer shows is for me. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. 😛
But speaking as someone who grades said swordfights purely on the "is it cool-looking" scale, the one in this episode was pretty dull stuff. Someone built like Tennant shouldn't be waving a big ol' broadsword around, aesthetically speaking. Give him a shorter, slimmer blade so he doesn't look like he's spending most of his energy just heaving the thing around.
I think he wasn't so much against them HAVING the weapons, as against using them on a retreating enemy without so much as a warning…
I love this comment so freaking much.
I promise I will try really hard not to begin all of my comments with HI TEN I LOVE YOU YAYYYYY but I may not do a very good job. Ten is MY Doctor, and he always will be <3
Compared to Nine, Ten is much more… well, his emotional pendulum swings a lot more drastically. He's bouncier, he get angrier, and his other emotions are just as bigger.
Anyways, the episode! I think the other commenters hit it on the nose when they say that the plot isn't the important part of this episode, but the characters and their ~feelings~ are. We're getting to see a new Doctor in action, and so is everyone else. Like the Doctor says, he's a new man, and no one knows what he's like yet, and that's kind of exciting.
The characters are all great in this episode. Even Rose is pretty great and manages not to call Micky and Jackie worthless! Go Rose! I'm still amazed that Mickey is still holding out for her after her shenanigans, but I'm also proud of him for not nagging her about things. Jackie is… well, she's Jackie and she's wonderful.
This episode is also very, very British. Tea saves the day, the Doctor compares himself to Arthur Dent, they mention the royal family, and then at the end they all sit down with those cracker things that I only know about because of Harry Potter. I kind of love the extreme Britishness of the episode.
"No second chances. I'm that sort of a man." BEST LINE OF THE SERIES!
Well, I'm glad I refreshed the tab that I opened this morning … before complaining that it was London and not Cardiff. Because I wouldn't want to be the 600th person to say the same thing 😉 … BUT YOU didn't catch THIS LINE: As Mickey and Rose walk around the shops in Cardiff …
Anyways – I think I mentioned back when we first meet Mickey that I'm a huge fan of him – he does tend to grow on your as the episodes progress. I had originally figured he'd be a pretty flat character, being Rose's back home boyfriend, but he is quite well rounded, wholly 'normal' and likable, and so very very human. I can identify with him so much at times.
Not one of my favourite episdoes at all. I found it a bit annoying that it had so little Doctor in it, and I really don't like the aliens of this one. I find them boring and fake. And I was very upset with Ms. Jones and her little ploy with the blowing up of the spaceship. *shakes fist*
Ten is crazy fun, but… yeah, don't EVER EVER piss him off. It will not go well. Eleven is thus far my favorite Doctor as a character, though Tennant might be my favorite actor. (His actual accent is Scottish, so it's really funny to watch him talk if you see any of the behind-the-scenes stuff later.)
As for the Jesus question… well, uh, can we answer that since you asked? I don't think Jesus ever shows up, but they do run into ANOTHER major religious figure at one point… which is surprising because I don't think American TV would have allowed it. They manage to be inoffensively vague about it though.
But there is a Scene at One Point that is very Jesus. Should point that out here. Remember that scene?
That is also true. Weird special effects, there. Probably why I don't watch that episode very much.
I wish I didn't.
MARK.
If the music ever takes you by surprise, I want you to comment on it.
Something I have not seen is much mention of the music. It is actually a big reason why I like the show so much. Yes, yes, it has amazing writing, but when the music adds so much that it gives me goosebumps it adds SO MUCH.
I just downloaded a bit of soundtrack from the series and it's very much worth the money.
They did a music thing at a big hall in the UK called Doctor Who at the Proms which is excellent, but not for you until you finish season 4. But it goes to show you just how good the music is in this series. The hall was full. Kids and adults alike. It was so good. If I was 7 and gone it would have been one of the highlights of my childhood, I think.
I love Murray Gold and his music, and it only gets better in later seasons.
I love the soundtracks. While my tv soundtrack soul belongs to Bear McCreary for BSG I'll always love Murray Gold for getting me to take note of tv soundtracks more. I'll definitiely be mentioning it every now and again when favourite songs and themes start popping up more.
lol.
David Tennant turns up, and BAM.
400 comments 😀
Hey, there were 330 for The Empty Child. Credit, there.
I've been steadily commenting since Firefly. But I also admit that Tennant is my favorite doctor!
To be fair it's probably more because it's his first episode so there is a lot to talk about…
David Tennant is a pretty fine actor when you take into account how English he sounds considering hes Scottish – And I've seen clips of him acting when he was younger, and the Scottish accent is quite strong!
David Tennant love forever, trust me Mark, you'll feel the same way too 🙂
It's funny that so many consider Ten to be the Doctor to be afraid of, because I don't find him remotely scary. Nine is far scarier to me. Ten is actually the Doctor I take the least seriously.
But I liked the moments with Rose, Jackie, and Mickey.
And Harriet Jones is a BAMF, no matter what the Doctor thinks.
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