Mark Watches ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’: S03E11 – Gingerbread

In the eleventh episode of the third season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy’s mother accompanies her on a patrol and discovers the bodies of two dead children. She decides to form an activist group to confront the evils of Sunnydale, and EVERYTHING IS RUINED. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Buffy.

Fuck the P.M.R.C. and fuck Tipper Gore.

I started listening to punk rock and metal when I was eight years old. I was lucky enough to have an older sibling who played fantastic music and would pass along things I should listen to. That’s how I learned about bands like Bad Religion, Metallica, Black Flag, and Iron Maiden. That soon branched off to Depeche Mode, Nine Inch Nails, and The Smiths. Then it was Run DMC and Tupac and A Tribe Called Quest. Then I couldn’t keep track of the bands that I enjoyed because it was like a complicated web of audio pleasure. The reason I latched on to music as a form of catharsis was because it understood me. Living in a strict Christian household, knowing I was gay but could never show it, knowing I lived with a mother who was openly racist, knowing that I was despised and bullied in school, I found that the people who sang the songs I loved also knew that my life was hard. They knew what it was like to be depressed. They knew what it was like to have difficult parents. They knew what it was like to experience racism from people you cared about.

But in the early 90s, the Parents Music Resource Center was impossible to ignore; even though I’d missed the main thrust of their action because I was a toddler, the use of Parental Advisory stickers was already in full force by the time I started sneaking and smuggling records into my house. Most of the time, I’d give a friend ten or twenty dollars and a list. Get me these CDs or these tapes. Used is okay. Whatever gets me more music for the money. Then they’d hand them over at school and I’d stick them inside textbooks or three-ring binders. I had a shoebox in a chest in my closet, and by the time I was fourteen, I needed a second one. Then a third. Then it got to the point where it was impossible to hide.

Those records were my only link to the outside world. I wasn’t allowed to have friends outside of school. I wasn’t allowed to leave the house. I couldn’t get phone calls from friends. No one was allowed to visit me. I couldn’t go to the movies without my parents, and even then, we weren’t allowed to pick a movie that wasn’t rated G or PG. My television use was regulated as well; cartoons or PBS only, and nothing after 7pm on a weekday. Once I got in high school, this meant that I usually finished my homework well after my television curfew, so I wouldn’t get to watch anything.*

That meant that the only way I learned about the world was through my records. A.F.I. taught me how to cope with self-hatred and depression. Bad Religion taught me political theory. Public Enemy taught me about racial oppression. Metallica’s “Dyer’s Eve” was my own personal anthem, if there ever could be a song to represent what it was like to live in my house. I just had a long Facebook conversation with my friend Kasper about how a lot of the riot grrrl and queercore bands of the 90s were the only punk/hardcore bands that talked about queer sex and how Team Dresch once made me cry because I wanted to be accepted like that.

I know I am probably preaching to the choir at this point, as I’m sure plenty of you had music, books, television, or movies that spoke to you on such an intimate level that they were yours. They helped you through difficult times. They gave you hope. They gave you strength.

I don’t remember the exact date in 1996, but that was the first time my mom threw away my record collection. She wasn’t even discerning about it. She saw a special on the news, or perhaps 20/20 or Dateline or whatever “news” show was airing back then, and she heard that children were hiding satanic and occult records in their bedrooms. She heard that it was turning children into social deviants who worshipped witchcraft, or turned to a life of crime, or became homeless. She heard that albums didn’t get Parental Advisory stickers unless they were reprehensible and socially irresponsible. So she threw all of them away. She threw away my support group. Suddenly, all those voices I had telling me it was okay to be angry, to feel sad, to be gay, to be Mexican, they were gone in an instant. And it was all because of fucking Tipper Gore and her righteous brigade of offended rich women.

“Gingerbread” upset and disturbed me on a visceral level, more so than most horror movies. The thing that will always get to me is that people like Tipper Gore will never know how her actions branched out to affect other people. She will never know that her ridiculous moral crusade was responsible for my mother believing I was satanic. SATANIC. I barely believed in God, and now I was believing in Satan? Tipper Gore will never know that her actions inspired my mother to tell me that I was wasting my life, that I wouldn’t be a successful person because I listened to “scary” music. She’ll never know that my mother made me feel worthless because of the music that I listened to.

In that sense, it’s easy to see the parallel to Joyce’s actions in this episode. Even if Tipper Gore, my mother, and Joyce all had the best intentions in mind, their careless crusades ruined things. They judged people purely on the basis of misconceptions, misinformation, and difference. There’s a powerful metaphor here for how a mob mentality approaches something or someone they don’t understand, and how that sort of behavior is inherently destructive. I have a lot more to say about this episode, but it’s honestly one of my favorites of the whole series because it shows us that these people care only about being offended. They don’t care to root out the problems that might cause people to write about killing themselves or to swear at their parents. Their delicate sensibilities are more important than actual social ills. Think about it: Joyce starts the group because she lets her feelings over the death of those kids get the best of her. Even if she really wants to protect the kids in Sunnydale, that’s not what M.O.O. ultimately comes to be about.

So yeah. Fuck you, Tipper Gore.

I HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS I NEED TO TALK ABOUT

  • OH MY GOD IT’S WILLOW’S MOTHER. Her character has been completed. It’s like we’ve been missing this piece of Willow this whole time. I can hardly believe it. WILLOW MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW. Now we know why she’s an overachiever, why she’s a perfectionist, and why she intellectualizes so many things. Her mother does this to a degree that is horrifying. Oh my god, Willow. MY HEART.
  • I seriously love Joyce’s speech at the vigil, as uncomfortable as it is. It’s totally plausible to me that the city of Sunnydale purposely refuses to engage the weirdness of their town. Despite that Joyce takes her beliefs to an irrational level, I really respect the fact that she was sick of disengaging from reality. I also sat with my mouth agape during that whole scene.
  • When we’re shown Willow performing a spell around that symbol with Michael and Amy, I may have yelped. THIS EPISODE WAS SO SHOCKING. So many plot twists!
  • Bless you, Buffy, for standing up to Michael and Amy’s bullies.
  • For real, the locker raid scene was kind of triggering to me? We had a locker search during my P.E. class in eighth grade, and I’d checked out a book about being gay, and I was terrified that the campus security would show everyone. They found whatever they were looking for before they got to my locker, but yeah. Fuck that nonsense.
  • Giles on a computer will never not be hilarious. You resist technology forever, dude.
  • HANSEL AND GRETAL ARE DEMONS. I’M SORRY, I FUCKING LOVE THIS SO MUCH.
  • Okay, I know it’s heavy-handed as hell, but the book burning/witch burning scene is just such a cool metaphor for the whole thing. It’s also SUPER DISTURBING, especially when Joyce and Mrs. Rosenburg make plans for lunch AFTER BURNING THEIR DAUGHTERS ALIVE.
  • The entire scene where Cordelia wakes up Giles is just comic perfection. I love when those two interact. WAKE UP IN A COMA.
  • Oh my god, Buffy asks Angel if Sunnydale is better since she arrived. WHY COULDN’T THESE CHARACTERS REMEMBER “THE WISH”?
  • Okay, so did something happen between Giles and Joyce in “Band Candy”? Either they did something more than hang out, or they are currently dating. I kind of like this idea?
  • Okay, I laughed when Oz and Xander showed up to rescue Willow and Buffy. Excellent timing?
  • Will Amy remain a rat forever?

*To this day, I like to tease my mother about the fact that she made exceptions to this rule for two things: The X-Files and The Silence of the Lambs. I mean, I cannot believe those were acceptable, but staying up past 8pm on weekday was highly uncalled for. She readily admits that she made little sense when raising me with these rules.

Death Count: 1. The demon! Total: 31.

About Mark Oshiro

Perpetually unprepared since '09.
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429 Responses to Mark Watches ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’: S03E11 – Gingerbread

  1. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/2SyNn.jpg"&gt;

    1. "The Witch" – Catherine pushes a table against him
    2. "Never Kill a Boy on the First Date" – Andrew, the vampire, throws him into the crematory controls
    3. "Prophecy Girl" – Buffy punches him
    4. "When She Was Bad" – Vampires
    5. "Passion" – After going after Angelus for killing Jenny, he's unconscious for a few moments.
    6. "Becoming, Part 1" – Dru's gang knocks him out
    7. "Beauty and the Beasts" – Buffy accidentally shoots him with a tranquilizer gun
    8. "Homecoming" – Candy and Lyle Gorch knock him out
    9. "Revelations" – Gwendolyn hits him over the head
    10. "Gingerbread" – MOO uses chloroform

    (Courtesy of this (spoilery) thread, removing a few iffy ones to match this (spoilery) quiz answer.)

  2. hpfish13 says:

    When I said that creepy children freaked me out yesterday, I had totally forgotten that this episode was today. Funnily enough, these children don’t creep me out as much, I’m not sure why though. Anyway….

    This episode is just plain uncomfortable to watch. I had forgotten due to being so terribly amused by “Did I get it? Did I get it?” There are so many awful things going on.

    First of all, can magical stuff stop happening that makes Joyce a mean parent? It is really uncomfortable to watch. And in this episode we have Willow’s mom behaving badly too (though it seems she is a decidedly less awesome mom than Joyce when no magic is happening).

    Secondly, having recently watched the X-Files episode Syzygy, I found myself getting even more frustrated than usual about all of the witch hunt elements of the episode. I kept yelling “STOP BEING SO AWFUL EVERYBODY!!!”

    Things I did like
    •The uncomfortable nature of Xander and Oz interacting, so awkward, but so entertaining.
    •Giles on the computer “Session interrupted? (frustrated) Who said you could interrupt, you stupid, useless fad! No, I said fad. And I'll say it again.”
    -Cordelia: Wake up! (slaps unconscious Giles)
    Giles: Cordelia?
    Cordelia: Took you long enough to wake up. My hand hurts.
    Giles: Pity. Oh… Why are you here?
    Cordelia: Things are way out of control, Giles. First the thing at school, and then my mom confiscates all of my black clothes and scented candles. I came over here to tell Buffy to stop this craziness and found you all unconscious… again. How many times have you been knocked out, anyway? I swear, one of these times, you're gonna wake up in a coma.
    Giles: Wake up in a… Oh, never mind. We need to save Buffy from Hansel and Gretel.
    Cordelia: Now, let's be clear. The brain damage happened *before* I hit you.
    -Cordelia: (picks it up) This? (sniffs it) It doesn't look like a toad.
    Giles: No reason it should. It's from inside the toad.
    Cordelia: I hate you.

    One more thing, since I knew no one was going to get burned to death, I found myself more worried about Giles books than Buffy, Willow and Amy in that last scene. Is this bad?

    And officially!

    Episode 11: Gingerbread
    Teleplay by Jane Espenson, Story by Thania St. John & Jane Espenson, Directed by James Whitmore Jr.
    Original Airdate: 01/12/99

    When two young children are found dead, the whole town rallies together and blames the death on witchcraft. When witch paraphernalia is found in Willow’s locker, no one believes it was for a special birthday present she was preparing for Buffy.

    • cait0716 says:

      This is not the first time I've attempted to rot13 the title of an X-Files episode. Was there some sort of conspiracy to create really strange episode names?

      Oh, he says "fad"? I'd always heard a different word there, and then put that together with Xander's comment about a frisky watcher chat room to create a rather interesting head canon for Giles. In context, it probably makes no sense for his character to be frequent Gay British chat rooms. Eh, I think I'll hold on to that image anyway.

    • enigmaticagentscully says:

      OMG Syzygy! I actually love that episode.

      But I never could work out how to pronounce it.

    • DreamRose311 says:

      "This episode is just plain uncomfortable to watch. I had forgotten due to being so terribly amused by “Did I get it? Did I get it?” There are so many awful things going on. "

      Heh, I kind of oppositely rejected the episode for years, forgetting all the awesomeness in it due to being so terribly uncomfortable ;op

    • notemily says:

      First of all, can magical stuff stop happening that makes Joyce a mean parent? It is really uncomfortable to watch.

      YES. Ugh.

  3. arctic_hare says:

    I should like this episode, I really should – I love fairy tales, after all, and retellings of fairy tales, and all that jazz, but this episode, I just – I can't. It's just too angry-making. It has its moments, though.

    – Ohssl'f yvar nobhg "Fbzrbar jvgu n fbhy qvq guvf?" ohtf zr rira zber va ergebfcrpg orpnhfr bs gur jubyr guvat jvgu Fcvxr va frnfba frira. Gurer unir orra rabhtu rknzcyrf bs fbhyrq crbcyr qbvat ubeevoyr guvatf ol gung cbvag gung univat n fbbbhhhhhy abbbbbbbj fubhyqa'g zrna ur'f nhgbzngvpnyyl n tbbq crefba be bss gur ubbx sbe nalguvat. Ohg nccneragyl gung fvzcyvfgvp jbeyq ivrj fgvyy syvrf jvgu Ohssl lrnef yngre. Vg'f nabgure ernfba jul Natry gur frevrf jvgu vgf znal funqrf bs terl vf zber gurzngvpnyyl fngvfslvat gb zr.

    – Xander, Buffy is absolutely right: you *are* guilty, and you are just going to have to deal with being looked upon with suspicion by Oz. You made your bed, you lie in it. Suck it up and deal. And no, we're not going to be remotely sympathic towards you having porn in your locker. Nobody's on a hunt for that in connection to murder. The witchcraft stuff in Willow and Amy's lockers, on the other hand? Very much so. You have some nerve asking for them to turn their sympathy your way when they're going to be in much worse trouble. Fuck off.

    – Joyce, STFU. Urgh, she pisses me off so much in the scene where she puts down what Buffy does. Well, she pisses me off in this entire episode, really.

    – V ybir ybir ybir jung Natry fnlf gb Ohssl nobhg jul gurl svtug. Ybir vg. Vg'f n jbaqreshy cerphefbe gb uvf qrirybczrag va uvf bja frevrf, naq rira sberfunqbjf gur jnl gung fubj raqf. Juvpu whfg znxrf gur raqvat bs Abg Snqr Njnl rira zber cresrpg.

    – I do love the lampshading of how many times Giles gets knocked out, and Cordelia helping him save everyone. "You like that? Huh? How 'bout some more!" ILU, CORDY. <3 <3 <3 Gubhtu gur "jnxr hc va n pbzn" yvar vf cnvashy sbe zr abj engure guna shaal.

    • Karen says:

      But Joyce (and all the other townspeople) are being corrupted by the demon. So idk. From the moment she sees the children onward, I don't really consider her to be acting completely under her own free will.

      • cait0716 says:

        I agree with this interpretation. And I have a whole elaborate head canon about Giles not being affected because of his special watcher training and The Mayor not being affected because he sold his soul and Snyder not caring enough about children to really be affected by the magic but going along with it anyway because of the power trip.

        • Jenny_M says:

          Yeah, my interpretation was always that it was only parents who were affected, which would rule out Giles and the Mayor. And Snyder's just a special brand of asshole who gets off on this kind of stuff.

          • Hanna_the_Glam says:

            That actually kind of makes sense to me.

          • notemily says:

            Well, we don't know for sure that the Mayor doesn't have kids. We've never seen his family. [Naq ng guvf cbvag jr qba'g xabj gung ur'f orra nyvir sbe jnl ybatre guna gur hfhny uhzna yvsrfcna.] But I like your theory about parents.

      • arctic_hare says:

        It's like, I know that, but it doesn't stop me wanting to reach through the screen and shake her or something. LOL it's weird.

      • 1979semifinalist says:

        Agreed. It's horrible to watch, and I can see it being really triggering and upsetting before you realize that she's being manipulated, but after the fact, you have to realize that it wasn't of her own free will. That's not Joyce…that's Joyce under the influence of hellmouthy goodness.

        In fact, the only thing we know of her free will, is Joyce showing up during Buffy's patrol at the beginning of the episode (with snacks) so she could learn more about what Buffy does, which is ADORABLE and if you're Buffy, HORRIFYING.

    • Shadowmarauder says:

      V guvax birenyy v npghnyyl cersre Natry gur frevrf bire Ohssl. V ernyyl yvxr gur funqrf bs terl vg tbrf vagb, orvat n qrzba qbrfa'g znxr lbh nhgbzngvpnyyl onq naq orvat n uhzna qbrfa'g znxr lbh tbbq. V yrtvgvzngryl guvax frnfba 2 bs Natry vf gur fvatyr orfg frnfba bs obgu fubjf. Gung naq v svaq Natry nf n punenpgre vf whfg fb zhpu zber qrirybcrq ba uvf bja fubj.

    • settlingforhistory says:

      Gubhtu gur "jnxr hc va n pbzn" yvar vf cnvashy sbe zr abj engure guna shaal.

      Vg'f jrveq ubj bsgra vg unccraf va gur Ohsslirefr gung n yvar va ba frnfba jvyy znxr lbh fuhqqre znal frnfbaf yngre.
      V zrna jr unir Knaqre'f rlr, gur "shaal narhevfz", gung lbh pna xvyy znal guvaxf jvgu n fgnxr naq ab "jnxr vc va n pbzn" ol gur crefba jub jvyy yngre "jnxr hc" va n pbzn.

      Znxrf zr jbaqre ubj gur jevgref cyna bhg gur rcvfbqrf. 'Lbh xabj, Ohssl gbyq Knaqre va na rneyvre frnfba "hagvy fbzrbar ybfrf na rlr". Ubj nobhg jr yrg fbzrbar cbxr uvf rlr bhg jvgu n svatre."

    • robin_comments says:

      "Gurer unir orra rabhtu rknzcyrf bs fbhyrq crbcyr qbvat ubeevoyr guvatf ol gung cbvag gung univat n fbbbhhhhhy abbbbbbbj fubhyqa'g zrna ur'f nhgbzngvpnyyl n tbbq crefba be bss gur ubbx sbe nalguvat."

      Lrnu… sbe n fubj gung'f abg biregyl Puevfgvna, OgIF vf irel jrveq nobhg ~fbhyf~. Guvf pbzzrag bs Ohssl'f pbhyq unir npghnyyl orra n terng bcravat gb gung, jurer gur punenpgref pbafvqre, "uhu, lrf crbcyr jvgu fbhyf qb gehyl njshy guvatf nyy gur gvzr (V zrna, uryyb! UHZNA FREVNY XVYYREF. PUVYQ NOHFREF. RGP.), fb znlor gurl'er abg ernyyl fbzrguvat gung fubhyq or hfrq gb qrfvtangr Crefba Jvgu Na Vagevafvp Evtug Gb Yvsr." Ohg… ab. Perngherf jvgu fbhy = raqbjrq jvgu fcrpvny evtugf & qvfcrafngvbaf. Vs lbh tvir na vasrevbe "zbafgre" n fbhy, abj gurl ner svkrq. (Vg jvyy nyjnlf oht zr ubj ab bar ernyyl gevrf gb fbpvnyvmr fbhyyrff!Fcvxr be uryc thvqr uvz va haqrefgnaqvat rzcngul naq zbenyvgl yvxr gurl qb jvgu sbezre-qrzba Naln, haqre guvf nffhzcgvba gung ur'f vapncnoyr–abg whfg vzcnverq naq haghgberq. Gnyx nobhg zvffrq bccbeghavgvrf. Naq gura vg whfg syvcf gb, bu! vafgrnq bs uneq jbex naq punenpgre tebjgu, abj jr'ir cbccrq va n fbhy! Bx, V jvyy yrnir gur erfg bs zl pbzcynvavat nobhg guvf hagvy jnl yngre. *t*)

      • Flowerry Pott says:

        I'm replying to: Lrnu… sbe n fubj gung'f abg biregyl Puevfgvna, OgIF vf irel jrveq nobhg ~fbhyf~.

        Gur pbaprcg bs n fbhy vf abg na rkpyhfviryl Puevfgvna bar. Ybgf bs eryvtvbaf unir gur vqrn bs n fbhy. Fcvevghny oryvrs gung vfa'g "eryvtvbhf" va nal jnl pna fgvyy fhofpevor gb gur abgvba bs n fbhy (nf V qb). Vg'f n fcvevghny pbaprcg, abg bar gung pna or pynvzrq ol nal eryvtvba.

        Vg vf cbffvoyr gung – va gur Ohsslirefr – frevny xvyyref naq puvyq zbyrfgref ner abg crbcyr jvgu fbhyf; gurl znl abg or crbcyr ng nyy. Nf rivqrapr, V erpnyy gur bppnfvba jura Ohssl nethrq gb bar bs ure pbyyrtr cebsrffbef gung Enfchgva znl npghnyyl unir orra n qrzba.

      • notemily says:

        V guvax gur qvfgvapgvba vf gung guvatf jvgubhg fbhyf Ohssl unf serr ervta gb xvyy. N uhzna, ab znggre ubj njshy, fubhyq tb gb wnvy vafgrnq bs orvat fynlrq. Fynva? Naljnl, V qba'g guvax vg'f gur orfg ybtvp fvapr jr'ir frra gung qrzbaf pna or Tbbq Crbcyr Gbb, ohg gung'f ubj gur ybtvp bs gur fubj tbrf, naq V guvax Ohssl vf rkgen natel nobhg guvatf jura gurer'f abguvat fur pna xvyy.

        • misterbernie says:

          Nf jvgu fynlrq/fyrj, obgu ner pbeerpg!

        • RoseFyre says:

          Lrnu, uhznaf nera'g gur Fynlre'f erfcbafvovyvgl – juvpu cbffvoyl unf tbbq ernfba, pbafvqrevat ubj zhpu nppvqragnyyl (abg rira checbfrshyyl) xvyyvat gur qrchgl znlbe shpxf Snvgu hc yngre guvf frnfba. Ohssl nyfb qvfphffrf guvf ng gur raq bs frnfba fvk, V oryvrir – gung Jneera naq Wbanguna naq Naqerj fubhyq tb gb cevfba, lrf, ohg gung gurl fubhyqa'g or fxvaarq nyvir ol Qnex Jvyybj.

          Nyfb, V guvax gurer'f fbzrguvat gb or fnvq sbe gur fbhy tvivat lbh n ybg bs gur novyvgl gb PUBBFR ubj gb orunir. Fbhyyrff orvatf ner anghenyyl vapyvarq gbjneq rivy, naq vg gnxrf n ybg gb trg bar gb zbir gb gur fvqr bs tbbq – naq rira jura gurl qb (Fcvxr, sbe rknzcyr), gurl fgvyy qba'g arprffnevyl shyyl haqrefgnaq jung tbbq naq rivy ernyyl ner va n crefbany jnl, fb zhpu nf va xabjvat gung gung'f jung uhznaf guvax vf tbbq be rivy. Bs pbhefr, orvatf jvgu fbhyf pna nofbyhgryl tb rivy nf jryy – gur Znlbe pubfr gb fryy uvf fbhy, Snvgu qrsvavgryl fgvyy unf uref, nf qbrf Jvyybj, jura obgu bs gurz fgneg tbvat rivy, Natry jnf abg rknpgyl na rkrzcynel uhzna orvat orsber ur unq uvf fbhy, Jneera vf qrsvavgryl ABG n tbbq crefba, Nzl yrnaf gbjneq gur qnex fvqr…gurer ner zlevnq rknzcyrf. Ohg gurl unir zber PUBVPR gb or tbbq, jurgure be abg gurl gnxr gung pubvpr.

          • robin_comments says:

            "Nyfb, V guvax gurer'f fbzrguvat gb or fnvq sbe gur fbhy tvivat lbh n ybg bs gur novyvgl gb PUBBFR ubj gb orunir."

            V thrff vg'f gung sebz zl bja vaqvivqhny crefcrpgvir, gung pbzcyvpngrf gur fvghngvba rira zber. Vs fbhyyrff orvatf yvxr Fcvxr (naq cbffvoyl Naln – gurer unf orra ybgf bs snajnax bire gung bar) unir zhpu yrff bs n pubvpr, gura creuncf gurl fubhyq or ivrjrq va n xvaqre snfuvba guna fbhyrq vaqvivqhnyf gung zheqre naq gbegher. Creuncf gura vs gur qrngu cranygl gehyl vf gur bayl bcgvba, vg fubhyq or rkrepvfrq "uhznaryl" naq bayl nsgre gurl'ir orra pncgherq naq na nggrzcg ng erunovyvgngvba vf znqr (gb gel naq tvir gurz gur punapr gung fbhyrq perngherf unir) — bayl qrfgeblvat guvf crefba (naq vzb zbfg inzcverf naq qrzbaf NER crbcyr) bapr lbh xabj sbe fher guvf vaqvivqhny pna'g or fbpvnyvmrq.

            Lrf, gung'f n UHTR oheqra gb cynpr ba gur Jngpure'f Pbhapvy naq Fynlre, ohg vzb vs lbh'er anzrq lbhefrys whqtr, whel, naq rkrphgvbare gura znlor gurer'f fbzr erfcbafvovyvgl naq nppbhagnovyvgl gung fubhyq tb jvgu gung. Naq vs bar nccrnef gb or vagrerfgrq va gelvat ng nyy (r.t. Fcvxr), be jungrire ernfba, gura gurl fubhyq vavgvnyyl erprvir rzcngul naq n ybg bs uryc & rapbhentrzrag — abg qrevfvba.

            Guvf vf whfg zl crefbany jnl bs ybbxvat ng guvatf, ol gur jnl. V'z abg fnlvat vg'f Gur Gehgu be gung nalbar unf gb nterr jvgu zr. Vg'f fvzcyl gur yraf guebhtu juvpu V crefbanyyl ivrj gur znggre.

            naljnl, jungrire, V unir fb znal pbzcyvpngrq naq pbagenqvpgbel srryvatf nobhg guvf vffhr naq vg'f arire tbvat gb punatr nalguvat orpnhfr gur fubj vf ybat bire. πŸ™‚

    • Seventh_Star says:

      i cringe at the "someone with a soul did this?" line as well. this is a horribly naive way of looking at life. because people aren't murderers? rapists? abusers?

      but of course, in this particular universe, the whole soul/ no soul issue is a tad complicated. not that that makes me like that line any more.

    • 00guera00 says:

      V guvax vg'f yrff nobhg ubj fbhyrq orvat ner vaureragyl tbbq, vg'f gung gurl unir gur pubvpr gb or tbbq. Gurl unir gung yvggyr ibvpr va gurve urnq gung gryyf gurz fbzrguvat vf 'jebat.' Unezbal fnlf, Lbh xabj, V gel, vg'f uneq, vg'f abg yvxr V unir n fbhy, ohg V gel ernyyl uneq.

      And I'm with you, I know logically Joyce is under the influence and whatnot, I just can't watch this episode without a lot of raging.

    • PheasantPlucker says:

      "Ohssl'f yvar nobhg "Fbzrbar jvgu n fbhy qvq guvf?" ohtf zr rira zber va ergebfcrpg orpnhfr bs gur jubyr guvat jvgu Fcvxr va frnfba frira. Gurer unir orra rabhtu rknzcyrf bs fbhyrq crbcyr qbvat ubeevoyr guvatf ol gung cbvag gung univat n fbbbhhhhhy abbbbbbbj fubhyqa'g zrna ur'f nhgbzngvpnyyl n tbbq crefba be bss gur ubbx sbe nalguvat. Ohg nccneragyl gung fvzcyvfgvp jbeyq ivrj fgvyy syvrf jvgu Ohssl lrnef yngre. Vg'f nabgure ernfba jul Natry gur frevrf jvgu vgf znal funqrf bs terl vf zber gurzngvpnyyl fngvfslvat gb zr."

      This!!!!!!! This this this this this.
      Npghnyyl, V guvax vgf npghnyyl gur ragver onfvf sbe zl qvfyvxr bs gung cybgyvar; vg pbhyq bgurejvfr unir orra oevyyvnag.

      • lurknomore says:

        V qba'g dhvgr nterr – vg vfa'g gung Ohssl guvaxf gung gubfr jvgu fbhyf ner vapncnoyr bs qbvat greevoyr guvatf, ohg gung gur snpg gung Fcvxr unf n fbhy zrnaf gung ur pna ab ybatre or nffrffrq ba gur onfvf bs guvatf ur qvq jvgubhg bar. Vs fbhyrq Fcvxr unq qrpvqrq gb pbagvahr jvyyvatyl fynhtugrevat vaabpragf, gur zrer cbffrffvba bs n fbhy jbhyqa'g or n ernfba gb ersenva sebz fynlvat uvz. Ubjrire, gur fbhy tvirf uvz gur cbffvovyvgl gb or n qrprag crefba hagvy cebira bgurejvfr.Gur cerfrapr bs n fbhy vfa'g n thnenagrr, ohg vg qbrf punatr gur rdhngvba.

        Gb hfr nabgure rknzcyr, vs Jvyybj jrer gb or genafcbegrq gb gur Jvfuirefr, vg jbhyqa'g or snve sbe gur Juvgr Ungf gb qrpvqr gung fur arrqrq gb or xvyyrq vzzrqvngryl, rira gubhtu cynva byq uhzna Jvyybj vf pncnoyr bs qbvat cerggl greevoyr guvatf va ure bja evtug.

  4. katherinemh says:

    I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this since Oz showed up, I don't think I've seen it, but I wonder if Willow's mom would have a problem with Oz's other band.

    [youtube fXSO6I5YHyY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXSO6I5YHyY youtube]

  5. settlingforhistory says:

    Even though it’s kind of a silly episode I really like how they show how easily people are influenced by fear and how fast they find a scapegoat.

    „It’s Mr. Sanders from the bank“ It’s terrible when you can’t go anywhere with your mom without her acquaintances bothering you. : )

    It seems a bit contrived that Joyce just happened to be there to find the kids, but maybe the demon drew her there magically.

    “Znlor lbh pbhyq ghea hc n ybbcubyr ba gur fynlref qba'g xvyy crbcyr ehyr”
    Qba’g znxr wbxrf nobhg guvf fb pybfr gb Onq Tveyf!

    So we learn from this episode that Willow like Xander doesn’t have the best parents. I really dislike her mom and how disinterested she is in her daughter’s life.
    So nice that the only thing she remembers about Willow’s rant is that her boyfriend is in a band. (V jbaqre ubj fur ernpgrq gb Gnen.)

    (Gur Znlbe vf whfg cynlvat nybat urer, V thrff. Ur cebonoyl xarj sebz gur fgneg jung jnf tbvat ba. Vg jbhaq or vagrerfgvat gb xabj vs qrzbaf yvxr gurfr pbhyq vasyhrapr uvz va nal jnl be vs ur vf vzzhar gb gung.)

    Joyce’s speech about the horrors of Sunnydale is so great, even if it’s influenced by the demon. It’s funny to see that people don’t even seem surprised by what she says and what they usually ignore.

    MOO! Hermione and Joyce should found a club, maybe they can come up with even worse acronyms.

    The bad google translator German on Giles’ computer is hilarious; it makes little if any grammatical sense.
    “I, a clergyman from near the Black forests, did do finding the bodies from the children of myself. On has been of the boy, the others of and girl. Upon my own researching I learned…”
    The writers haven’t learned yet that fans always use the pause button when there is text to read.
    Giles’ German is not bad though.

    I love Angel’ lines about fighting evil. “We never win. We never will. That's not why we
    fight. We do it 'cause there's things worth fighting for.” Fb zhpu bs gur svtugf va gur fcva-bss sbyybj gung cuvybfbcul, rfcrpvnyyl gur ynfg bar va gur svnayr.

    “Now I have to save Buffy from Hansel and Gretel.” This will never not be funny.

    God idea Amy, turn yourself into a rat without a way back. She really didn’t think this through. (Jurer qvq fur svaq guvf fcryy? Vg gbbx Jvyybj guerr lrnef gb haqb vg.)

    Oh god, the books! Someone has to save all the poor books!

    “One day you’re gonna wake up in a coma.”
    “I think I liked the two little ones more that the one big one.” Cordy, I’ve missed you so much.

    • Skyweir says:

      “Znlor lbh pbhyq ghea hc n ybbcubyr ba gur fynlref qba'g xvyy crbcyr ehyr”
      Qba’g znxr wbxrf nobhg guvf fb pybfr gb Onq Tveyf!

      Vg'f n fghcvq ehyr! Bu, vg znxrf zr zber natel guna nal bgure guvat va Ohssl V guvax. Naq Ohssl qb oernx vg n ybg yngre (erzrzore gung nezl bs xavtugf fur pnfhnyyl xvyyf va frnfba 5?). Ohg nccneragyl abg urer, naq abg sbe Snvgu.

      ….

      Ohg guvf vf fbzrguvat V fubhyq oevat hc ntnva va Onq Tveyf naq Pbafrdhaprf.

      • settlingforhistory says:

        V npghnyyl yvxr gung gurl oevat hc guvf ehyr fb bsgra, orpnhfr yvxr nal terng fhcreureb Ohssl unf gb oernx vg riraghnyyl. Vg'f n ybat jnl gubhtu naq fur unf gb frg urefrys fbzr yvzvgf, rira vs gurl punatr jura fur trgf zber rkcrevraprq va svtugvat rivy.

      • TrampyMcBitca says:

        "(erzrzore gung nezl bs xavtugf fur pnfhnyyl xvyyf va frnfba 5?)"
        Vfa'g "pnfhnyyl xvyyf" n yvggyr unefu? Fur jnf qrsraqvat urefrys naq ure snzvyl.

      • Iamwinterborn says:

        V qba'g erpnyy ure pnfhnyyl xvyyvat gurz.

        V'z gelvat ernyyl uneq gb erzrzore, ohg v fjrne gurer jrer fb znal gvzrf jura lbh qvq abg frr ure npghnyyl xvyy bar. Gurl nyjnlf unq gurfr vafnaryl pybfr rfpncrf. V guvax gurer zvtug unir orra n srj qhevat gur EI fprar, oh rira gura V erpnyy sne gb bsgra gurl whfg "sryy bss gur gbc bs gur fcrrqvat EI" naq uvg gur tebhaq (juvpu jbhyq cebonoyl xvyy gurz va erny yvsr, rira jvgu vzzrqvngr zrqvpny uryc, ohg guvf vf GI ynaq. Rira gur aba-ohssl punenpgref pna trg guebja vagb jnyyf naq pbzr onpx jvgu n srj zvabe fpengpurf).

        V qb guvax gurer jrer n pbhcyr fur xvyyf jvgu na nkr… be fbzrguvat (ohg V fjrne rira gura vg jnfa'g "ure" xvyyvat gurz, fur fvzcyl… nibvqrq gur bgure crefba'f guebj be fbzrguvat). Ohg gura yngre, jura gurl znxr vg gb gur tnf fgngvba, gurl ner nyy qrnq ol gur gvzr fur yrnirf fb… fur qbrfa'g ernyyl xvyy na "nezl".

        Vs lbh erzrzore gur rknpg rcvfbqrf, V jbhyq or vagrerfgrq va erjngpuvat gurz, orpnhfr V qvq svaq vg n snprg bs ure punenpgre gung fur qbrfa'g rire qverpgyl xvyy uhznaf.

    • hpfish13 says:

      "Oh god, the books! Someone has to save all the poor books!"

      This! I can't handle books on fire, it bothers me more than a lot of more serious things.

    • cait0716 says:

      V jbaqre ubj fur ernpgrq gb Gnen.

      Bu fur cebonoyl purrerq Jvyybj ba sbe ohpxvat gur cngevnepul naq pbzcyrgryl zvffrq gur cbvag znxvat rirelguvat rira zber njxjneq

      I like Angel's line coming immediately after Amends. I guess he really was listening to Buffy during their fight on the hill

      • lawrence_s says:

        Bu fur cebonoyl purrerq Jvyybj ba sbe ohpxvat gur cngevnepul naq pbzcyrgryl zvffrq gur cbvag znxvat rirelguvat rira zber njxjneq

        Qbrfa'g Jvyybj zber be yrff pbasvez guvf va frnfba frira? V guvax ng fbzr cbvag fur zragvbaf gb Xraarql ubj ure zbz gubhtug vg jnf n cebsbhaq cbyvgvpny fgngrzrag be fbzrguvat.

    • Hanna_the_Glam says:

      “I think I liked the two little ones more that the one big one.”

      The way she says that is just priceless.

    • Seventh_Star says:

      v nyfb qba'g haqrefgnaq jul jvyybj qbrfa'g hfr gur fnzr fcryy gung nzl hfrf va "orjvgpurq, obgurerq, naq orjvyqrerq" gb qr-eng ohssl. gung qbrfa'g znxr nal frafr. vg'f abg yvxr jvyybj qvqa'g unir gung vasbezngvba jvguva ure tenfc.

      • cait0716 says:

        Fur qvq hfr gur fnzr fcryy, evtug ng gur raq bs guvf rcvfbqr. Ohg rvgure fur tbg gur ureof jebat be fur'f abg dhvgr cbjreshy rabhtu be gur qrzba zntvp vagrenpgrq jvgu Nzl'f zntvp be fbzrguvat. Gur fcryy qbrfa'g jbex, ohg vg'f abg sbe ynpx bs gelvat.

        • Seventh_Star says:

          evtug. fb, gung znxrf zr fpengpu zl urnq nf gb jul jvyybj qbrfa'g xrrc gelvat gb qr-eng nzl jvgu gung fcryy naq jul fur hfrf n pbzcyrgryl qvssrerag fcryy va "fznfurq".

          • settlingforhistory says:

            V nyjnlf gubhtug Nzl zvtug unir znqr n zvfgnxr jvgu gur fcryy naq gung'f jul gur pbhagre fcryy qbrfa'g jbex. Fur hfrq gur fnzr fcryy gung fur hfrq ba Ohssl, znlor vg jnf abg zrnag gb or hfrq ba barfrys.

            • tornflames says:

              Frr, zl gubhtug jnf gung fvapr Nzl'f fcryy jnf senzrq nf nfxvat n Terrx Tbqqrff gb jbex ure (Urpngr'f, abg Nzl'f) jvyy, jurgure vg jbexf, ba jub, naq jurgure/jura gurl punatr onpx vf ragveryl hc gb Urpngr. V svtherq Jvyybj pbhyq pnfg rirel pbhagre fcryy fur pbhyq guvax bs hagvy fur'f oyhr va gur snpr, naq vg'q or ynetryl veeryrinag fvapr vg'f n znggre bs n tbq univat qrpvqrq Nzl'f tbaan or n eng sbe nf ybat nf fur unccraf gb srry yvxr vg, l'xabj?

          • MrsGillianO says:

            Fur qbrf hfr nabgure fcryy (Fbzrguvat Oyhr?) juvpu jbexf, ohg arire rira abgvprf, gura gheaf Nzl onpx vagb n eng. Vaperqvoyl fubeg, anxrq pnzrb!

    • TrampyMcBitca says:

      "The writers haven’t learned yet that fans always use the pause button when there is text to read. "

      Like the textbook at the end of "Out of Mind, Out of Sight" consisted of the lyrics to the Beatles "Happiness is a Warm Gun"

  6. Karen says:

    Today is a super busy day for me, so I don’t have time to write out a lot of thoughts. This is a pretty decent self contained episode. I do enjoy episodes that deal with mob mentality (like “Midnight” from Doctor Who), but I think the fact that this is magically created mob mentality doesn’t quite sit right with me. Idk. I think it’s just a lot more interesting to explore the kind of real mob mentality that actually exists in the real world instead of just being like “oh it was magic!”.

    Anyway, I LOVE that Joyce brought snacks for Buffy while she was slaying. Oh Joyce, you’re such a mom. She wants to be involved in this part of her daughter’s life! THE WAY SHE’S CHEERING BUFFY ON IS THE BEST. Oh Joyce, you’re not being as helpful as you think you are, but it’s still cute.

    You can also see the difference between Bu ffy and Willow’s home lives. Joyce wants to be involved in Buffy’s life. Willow’s mom is very different. She doesn’t seem to be very interested in Willow’s life and is very distant. She’s an academic and views Willow as a subject to study and not a person.

    UGH AT XANDER COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE AREN’T THRILLED WITH HIM AFTER HE CHEATED ON CORDY.

    I think that there is a good discussion about how Buffy is only able to react to evil and isn’t able to preemptively stop it. And maybe they’ll never will completely, but they have to keep fighting.

    I do think it’s pretty clever how it turns out that this is like the real Hansel and Gretel. I am a sucker for stories where myths turn out to have some root in reality. It’s all turning into a literal witch hunt and culminates in burning at the stake. And Amy turns herself into a rat, much like she did to Buffy in “Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered”. Unfortunately, Willow and Buffy aren’t able to turn her back at the end oops. Oh and I love the way Buffy uses the stake she’s been tied to to kill the monster.

    CAN I SAY THAT I LOVE COREDLIA SLAPPING GILES AWAKE? LOL. I LOVE YOU, CORDELIA CHASE. NEVER LEAVE ME. And lolllll at her making the potion in the car. YOU ARE MY FAVORITE, CORDY.

    • cait0716 says:

      Gur pbairefngvba nobhg Ohssl abg orvat cebnpgvir vf nyfb vagrerfgvat va yvtug bs shgher riragf guvf frnfba. Orvat cebnpgvir graqf gb abg jbex bhg sbe ure. Yngre va guvf frnfba, fur gevrf gb cerirag gur nfprafvba ohg unf gb guebj gung bhg gur jvaqbj jura Jvyybj trgf xvqanccrq.

      I suppose it was a stake through the neck in this case, but I like the little callback to her line in The Wish "You'd be surprised how many things that will kill"

    • 1979semifinalist says:

      The bit where Joyce is all "go get 'em honey" is the most adorable thing EVER.

    • Seventh_Star says:

      i really dislike this episode, but i love "midnight". like A LOT. huh…

      • Karen says:

        "Midnight" is in my top 5 episodes of all of Doctor Who. IT'S SO GOOD. But like that feels organic and real. This episode is too over the top for me to love. The demon makes the townspeople act exponentially worse than they would under normal circumstances so it feels less real. It's more of an echo of reality. "Midnight" on the other hands feels VERY real because when people feel trapped and like their lives are in danger, things can become really ugly very fast.

        • arctic_hare says:

          This is a great summation of why I love Midnight and don't care so much for this one.

        • Seventh_Star says:

          YES. it's so unnerving to watch as these "normal" people slowly unravel. it was such an out-of-the-box episode for dw, and it paid off in spades. rtd and tennant at their best, i think.

    • Noybusiness says:

      The demon wouldn't be able to do its thing if the potential for mob violence wasn't there, so.

  7. To this day, I like to tease my mother about the fact that she made exceptions to this rule for two things: The X-Files and The Silence of the Lambs. I mean, I cannot believe those were acceptable, but staying up past 8pm on weekday was highly uncalled for. She readily admits that she made little sense when raising me with these rules.
    I don't understand parental restrictions sometimes. We had these neighbors, and they had kids about my age and my brother's (13 and 8, let's say), and we went to their house after school sometimes.

    And I will never forget the time their mom informed us, "I don't allow my children to watch Doug."

    DOUG. Something was horrible and terrible and damaging about DOUG.

    Meanwhile, they watched The Simpsons together as a family. The Simpsons has cursing! And nudity! WHAT THE HELL WAS WRONG WITH DOUG?!

    To this day, I am mystified.

    • Jenny_M says:

      Probably the Killer Tofu. Probably.

    • cait0716 says:

      My mom always used to flip-flop on South Park. Most of the time we weren't allowed to watch it. But then she'd read about a particularly funny or subversive episode and would actually make my brother and me watch it with her. Then we'd watch it for a few weeks before she decided it was too raunchy or whatever and ban us from it again

      To her credit, she tended to be pretty well researched and had very clear rules about what was too violent. Nothing was ever really too sexy. So R-rated movies tended to be negotiable. She just got a bit stuck on South Park

      • Jenny_M says:

        My dad took me to the South Park movie after I begged and begged. I was like…13 or 14. Maybe younger. Needless to say, Stan's great search for the Clitoris was one of the more mortifying moments of my life.

      • Mauve_Avenger says:

        My parents (more my mom, I think?) were absolutely dead set against any of us watching South Park when I was little, so my older siblings would wait until they were at the other end of the house and then watch it with the volume turned way down.

        I remember they didn't seem to have a problem with any of us watching Beavis and Butthead, though.

      • Patrick721 says:

        I still remember my dad having a problem with me watching South Park in 9th grade, but then not long after his objection to the show, we sat down and watched Pulp Fiction.

        Although I think his objection was more because of the utterly crude nature of South Park, while Pulp Fiction is a cinematic masterpiece. At least, that's the most logical reason I've been able to come up with. Yeah, SP is frequently brilliant satire, but it's still pretty immature a lot of the time. Which is why I like it.

        Other than that, I don't think my parents ever really tried to stop me reading/watching/listening to stuff. Well, my mom did have some problems with the cartoons I used to watch, which she thought were too violent. This was when I mostly watched Pokemon. I have very vague memories of this, but I remember it being a pretty stupid reason.

    • At my father's house, we were not allowed to watch The Simpsons or Animaniacs. I vaguely remember their reasoning against Animaniacs being that the main characters were too deviant… or something to that effect.

      We were also not allowed to watch Ferngully because…. fairies, I guess.

      All of which was a moot point because my mum let us watch whatever we wanted. Seriously, I used to watch FX shows with my mum when I was in middle school. Rescue Me. Nip/Tuck.

      Talk about your two extremes right there.

      • notemily says:

        Ferngully is blatant environmentalist propaganda, would that be it? I mean, I like that movie a lot and I'm all for saving the environment, but it's really just one huge anvil in animated movie form. (CAN'T YOU FEEL THE TREE'S PAIN.) I can see a more conservative family not wanting their kids to get sucked in by the liberal movie agenda.

        • No, it was the fairies. Fairies=bad at my dad's house.

          Which is why my dad and stepmom tried to stop my mom from telling us kids about the tooth fairy.

          Also, no gifts from Santa.

    • DreamRose311 says:

      I think my most interesting one is that I could watch all the horror movies I wanted, I know I saw some of the Puppet Master series before I was even in elementary school, and I know my mom took me to see one of the Nightmare on Elm St series in the theater when I was 7. But I couldn't own the Mortal Kombat video games or watch MTv. The Puppet Master series had plenty of violence and sex… It was strange, but I got to play MK games when I was at an arcade and snuck in some MTv at my grandparents house (mostly to try and catch the Thriller video). My parents don't really remember either of those rules and I totally make fun of them for it.

    • mzh says:

      My parents took me to see Terminator 2 in the theater. I would have been 9 or 10. Pretty Woman, on the other hand? No go. So: incredibly graphic violence, including crushed skulls, perforated bodies, and multiple impalings: A-OK. Some talk of sex? No can do!

      • notemily says:

        Just once I'd like to hear about a family that holds the opposite view.

        • Well I wouldn't say that my mom was the opposite, but she definitely didn't mind her kids watching movies with some sexual content. Her reasoning was that it was better that we go to her with any questions we might have.

          But we also watched a LOT of violent movies because that's what my stepfather liked to watch.

          I turned out alright… for the most part.

        • My dad would never forbid me from watching anything, though he'd try once or twice to talk me out of watching certain overly violent horror movies, but he's never even once mentioned sexual content/references to sex as a reason not so see a movie.

        • RoseFyre says:

          As far as I can recall, we never had any movies we weren't allowed to see.

          Of course, I also really didn't like movies (and still don't much like them, though I am actually strongly considering going to The Hunger Games when it comes out, which would be…probably the only movie I'd see all year), so for me it was kind of a moot point.

          My mom was actually pretty permissive – she was very much of the "I'd rather they come to me with questions than just go off and do stupid things" mentality. So both my sister and I were on birth control BEFORE we had sex, and when we needed rides home after drinking, she'd always be fine with it.

          I have the best mom ever, by the way. Just so you know. πŸ˜›

        • MaggieCat says:

          Ooh, ooh! My mom! I wasn't allowed to watch anything more violent than a cartoon (we're talking, like, She-Ra level here) until I was about 13 and even then it still had to be pretty moderate. Meanwhile, my Shakespeare phase started at age 8 after seeing the Zeffirelli version of Romeo and Juliet and I saw The Rocky Horror Picture Show at 9. (Reasoning: there is some violence, but it's so over the top it wasn't as bad as seeing someone take a realistic beating… and my mom loves it and didn't want to send me out of the room. Most of it went over my head anyway. Bonus: you do not have to explain to a very stereotypically "girly" 9 year old old girl why someone thinks high-heels and makeup are awesome, even if it's a guy.) It boggled the mind of my high school friends that I saw TRHPS at least 4-5 years before I was allowed to see Die Hard. But that wasn't really to my taste at the time anyway, it mostly affected me due to constant negotiation over whether I could watch Law & Order.

          On the other hand, my mother is fascinated by serial killers and while I wasn't allowed to watch any news shows or read books about them (not that I really wanted to) I picked up a lot by osmosis and asking questions so I ended up in the weird position of being a kid who wasn't allowed to watch violent movies, but knowing the names and MOs of Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy. Heh, maybe it was on purpose — I certainly maintained a solid suspicion of adults until proven otherwise long before my classmates gave up on 'grown-ups know best, do what you're told'.

          As to the Animaniacs ban someone else mentioned upthread — my dad, who never liked cartoons (he FELL ASLEEP during The Lion King in the theater*) loved it and watched it with me. Gargoyles too.

          These are the same people who made me a genre geek: ST:TNG was appointment viewing from the pilot onwards. My dad introduced me to Ray Bradbury quite young, my mom passed on Stephen King when I was older. The local librarians knew I had, and encouraged, full permission to hit the adult section of the library by the time I was in the 3rd grade (Okay, one thoughtful librarian did steer me away from Valley of the Dolls. "It isn't what you think it is.") X-Files when I was old enough, and Sliders (about which I have many conflicting thoughts but will maintain that it was good until shortly before John Rhys-Davies left). Mom and Dad loved Babylon 5 (I didn't) and Mom and I watched Farscape. My parents are/were awesome.

          *We actually did, literally, make fun of him for this for the rest of his life. Ha!

        • GeorgiaRemora says:

          My parents' restrictions were mostly like that. No horror or graphically violent movies for me when I was under thirteen, but we watched "The Life of Brian" together when I was 7. To be fair, they had forgotten most of the more explicit nudity scenes, but still… my brother was only 5. Actually, we went to a Marc Chagall exhibit in San Francisco not long after. My brother takes one look at this painting

          <img src="http://pda.88000.org/wallpapers/36/White_Crucifixion%2C_Marc_Chagall.jpg"/&gt;

          and says, "Look, Dad, it's Life of Brian!" I think he made a bystander's day, 'cause he just about died laughing.

        • Waffles says:

          Well, we weren't quite opposite but we were certainly somewhere near the other end of the spectrum.

          We'd go see movies with lots of explosions and the like when I was a kid, but not any close up personal violence and gore. On the other hand, my parents made sure to educate me about what sex was by the time I was 8 or so, and they were a-ok with me seeing a movie if they thought it was fairly realistic in it's treatment of relationships and didn't have anything too graphic for my age. IMO, they did a pretty good job of deciding what was appropriate.

    • Jordan says:

      I'm kind of surprised at the shows my parents let me and my brother watch when we were little, I remember watching the Simpsons, Ren and Stimpy, and Bevis and Butthead with my dad starting around age 5 or 6. I think that we were allowed to watch them because my dad wanted to watch them and could tell my mom that the reason he was watching cartoons was because of me and my brother, not because he had (and still has ) a very immature sense of humor. My brother even got in trouble once in kindergarten for his extensive use of innapropriate Simpson's quotes, which my dad thought was hillarious.

    • icy says:

      We didn't have a TV in my house growing up. And we had to leave ET early because my dad didn't like the way the teenagers were disrespecting their Mom early on. And he also believed that teenagers didn't curse, and if they did they were just copying what they saw in the movies and not actually cursing.

      So what I remember from childhood is never being able to participate in conversations about TV or movies ever, because I hadn't seen them (and this was in the late 70s/80s, when everyone on the planet watched the season finale of Dallas and had something to say).

      My dad made my sister return Huey Lewis and the News because of "I want a new drug." And then I taught her the record sleeve trick (because yea, I'm old enough to be buying actual lps); buying classical music used at garage sales, and then switching out the insides. Good times; good times.

      • notemily says:

        lololol "I want a new drug" seriously?? I love that your dad considered Huey Lewis TOO EDGY.

        My family had a TV, but not cable, so I mostly watched after-school cartoons and PBS. Ghostwriter was my favorite show for a while.

    • t09yavosaur says:

      In my house we weren't allowed to watch the Simpsons. Even when I was over 13 because my youngest sibling was still 8. Instead we watched Friends and Will and Grace.

      • _Bailey_ says:

        We weren't allowed to watch the Simpsons either, though I never really felt the loss. I've never cared to watch/read something that other people do simply because it's popular. I actually resisted reading Harry Potter for years because of this. Other shows that might have been inappropriate weren't really on my radar and so never came up.

        Other than that, I was not allowed to watch Scooby Doo because it gave my sister nightmares. Ten years later, her favourite movie is Sweeny Todd.

    • Delta1212 says:

      One

    • Smurphy says:

      My youth minister is super conservative. He and his wife monitor everything they watch. But what show do they watch together as a family? Family Guy. I don't get it.

      They also watch SpongeBob which is the worst show ever. My children will not be allowed to watch Spongebob. Ever.

    • WhiteEyedCat says:

      I went to a horse riding camp with a really religious instructor who was bragging to us about how her 22 year old daughter (who was there with us) never watched any movies above PG because she was so offended by them. This was somewhat dampened by the fact that we had been watching her True Blood DVDs with her the night before.

    • quenstalof says:

      Maybe it's because no one can decide what color Skeeter was?

    • brandy says:

      My mom wouldn't let me watch You Can't Do That on Television because all the adult characters were portrayed as idiots. Or Peewee's Playhouse just because she thought it was stupid.

  8. cait0716 says:

    "We need to save Buffy from Hansel and Gretel"

    If there's one thing I love more than vampires, it's fairy tales. I like that Buffy tackles a classic fairy tale and twists it around so that the "innocent children" are the bad guys and the witches are clearly being unfairly prosecuted. And we get to see how paranoia can tear a community apart.

    Also, this episode is a great showcase of Buffy's ability to be hilarious while still touching on more serious topics. I especially love Willow's whole scene with her mom. "I'm not an age group. I'm me. Willow group." "Do you see any goats around here? No! Because I sacrificed them!"

    I’m sure plenty of you had music, books, television, or movies that spoke to you on such an intimate level that they were yours. They helped you through difficult times. They gave you hope. They gave you strength.

    Basically, this is Buffy for me.

    Oh my god, Buffy asks Angel if Sunnydale is better since she arrived. WHY COULDN’T THESE CHARACTERS REMEMBER “THE WISH”?

    Yeah, this breaks my heart a bit, too. Buffy has no idea what a huge effect she has just by maintaining some sort of balance for this town.

  9. haguenite says:

    Can we just talk about the portrayal of Willow's mother for a second? Because, wow, I hate it. Though it's been alluded to before, in this episode it becomes plenty clear that Willow's mother is an intellectual academic type of person. She's a woman with a lot of education and a career of her own and… it causes her to be completely disconnected from her daughter. She's never around because she has conferences and appointments and books to write and when she is there, like in this episode, she pretty much overintellectualizes and overanalysis her daughter to literal death. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

    Though Joyce is also a smart woman, I hate that this obviously academic woman is painted with the "career mothers are bad and uncaring parents" brush. It makes me want to punch things.

    Anyway, I love the episode to bits, don't get me wrong. It's one of my absolute favorites and there's so much great and funny stuff in it. But yeah, see the above.

    • arctic_hare says:

      I share your hate.

    • Karen says:

      I always felt that the portrayal of Willow's mom was saying more about academics than about career women in genreral because Joyce works and (I think) owns her own business. Like, I THINK Willow's mom is a psychologist, right? Something like that. I always understood it to say that sometimes academics are so steeped in their books and their theory that they fail at applying it to the real world.

      • xpanasonicyouthx says:

        That's what I saw it as, too.

      • hpfish13 says:

        I think of her as being a slightly toned down version of Leonard's mom from The Big Bang Theory.

      • myeck says:

        I knew a girl in high school whose mother was, oddly enough, a child psychiatrist. She could have walked on set and played Willow’s mother without a script.

        I really don’t think she represents any sort of comment on career women. She doesn’t neglect Willow because of her career, she neglects her because that’s the sort of person she is. If she didn’t have a career she’d find some other way to not be there.

      • haguenite says:

        Yes, I agree, it's academic career women that are being portrayed here. I just don't think it's true, or rather, it's a stereotype that academics can't see beyond their books and theories. But I'll fully admit to taking this completely personally, too, as an academic woman myself.

        It obviously becomes hugely problematic to cast such a portrayal as as harmful as stereotypical portrayals of other, oppressed groups, but I do think academic women (even with all their educational privilege) get a bit of a rough deal, and I would like to see a more even-handed and realistic portrayal of them in media.

        • ZeynepD says:

          But I'll fully admit to taking this completely personally, too, as an academic woman myself.

          Seconded. I really dislike that stereotype; over-specialization does exist, but on the other hand it teaches you to think about a subject from every angle. The basic premise of the stereotype is somewhat invalid.

      • While the portrayal of Willow's mom doesn't really bother me, as I agree they are mostly showing what that kind of parent is like and not necessarily bashing academics or academic women, I do get annoyed at the idea that academics are like that.

        It's a very strange stereotype. I'm a science major and know a lot of academics and plan to be one myself. And we are not all strange, cold, uncaring people. In fact, some of the most caring, thoughtful people I know are academics. What is so wrong about wanting to LEARN?

      • brandy says:

        And as an academic (psychology related field, even) and mother, I still hate it.

        Because its not just a media stereotype – it's an actual attitude that many (male or childless women) academics DO have, that anyone who wants a good career/life balance isn't serious enough and should GTFO. Media portrayals like this just don't help at all.

    • settlingforhistory says:

      I think it's not simply intellectual woman who are portrait here, but more like the crappy parental lessons you learn from books. We don't know Sheila's profession, but she sounds like she has experience with problematic kids and she uses that terminology to analyse Willow. Like a psychiatrist treating family members, that is just a really bad idea.

    • TheFormerAstronomer says:

      Yes, this very much.

    • pica_scribit says:

      I just took it as Willow's mom being a representation of a certain type of parent. The type who raises their kid based on psychology and the latest parenting theory, rather than a true relationship between two actual unique people. Or maybe the type of person who wasn't cut out to be a parent, but we all know there's pressure in our culture for women to become mothers whether they're into it or not.

  10. Jenny_M says:

    Well hi there Blake from Rilo Kiley.

    He and Jenny Lewis managed to pop up in EVERYTHING I watched in the 90s, from Boy Meets World to Buffy.

    Also, I have always really liked this episode. Especially, "did I get it?"

  11. sirintegra42 says:

    I am yet again being plagued with downloads which take absolutely years to work so once again no endless list of thoughts for this episode, grrr.

    Anyway, I could comment on this review and how glad I am that I have a mum who at least tolerates my brother listening to Slipknot at full volume through most of his teenage years. Then you said that you were a fan of NIN and my brain exploded with questions to ask you about favourite albums and songs instead :). So yeah, if you happen to see this then what is your favourite album? I can never choose personally but I'm loving The Fragile at the moment, and particularly this song. I just can't stop listening to it:
    [youtube KotFMEt-a8Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KotFMEt-a8Y youtube]

    • Oh my Gooood, that song was so amazing live during the Lights in the Sky tour.

      [youtube xCWb3iCPMaw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCWb3iCPMaw youtube]

      I love…pretty much all the albums. Obvs, The Downward Spiral, as I listened to it over and over when I was a teenager, and I also really loved The Fragile, and most recently, I think The Slip was great.

      • sirintegra42 says:

        I think my brother saw them on that tour. The Great Destroyer looked pretty intense live, I'm not sure if I would've survived that! I will forever be jealous of anyone who actually got to see them though as I'll probably never get the chance now, grrr. Anyway, Trent seems pretty busy with other stuff so I can't be too angry at him.

        The Slip is pretty underrated I think. Discipline alone makes it great.

        • "Demon Seed" hasn't left my Shuffle.

          Lights in the Sky was my first time EVER seeing them live, and it was fucking awesome. I'm so glad I got to see Trent do his thing before he became an Oscar-winning composer.

          To top it all off, THERE WAS AN EARTHQUAKE DURING THE CONCERT.

          • sirintegra42 says:

            I AM DYING OF JEALOUSY.

            I keep going on the forums on the website and depressing myself because there are these people with their massive shirt and lithograph collections from gigs I couldn't go to because I was about 12 when they happened. I don't believe in all the 'true fan' crap but there is some really gorgeous merchandise out there that I'd love to get my hands on.

  12. Seventh_Star says:

    so, i said in a comment this one time that there wasn't one episode of buffy that i didn't like. i lied. i never re-watch "gingerbread" because it fills me with such gut-boiling anger that i can barely think straight. i know that joyce is under some kind of demon thrall, BUT STOP IT. PLEASE STOP THAT. YOU ARE HURTING ME IN WAYS YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND.

    • Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

      I think that's why I dislike this episode too… It just makes me rage so much! Then I realize that because I get so mad the episode must be really powerful and well crafted, which makes me appreciate it. Conflicting feelings!!

    • Katie says:

      yeah, gingerbread's on my no-watch list as well. When you can spend 45 minutes re-watching Band Candy, why would you re-watch Gingerbread?

    • ZeynepD says:

      Yes. This and "Ted" are the two episodes I will not rewatch, because "uncomfortable" isn't even in it.

      • Seventh_Star says:

        i don't dislike "ted" as much as this one, but they are the only two episodes that make me physically uncomfortable. i think that must say a lot about me. ha.

      • UnstrungZero says:

        Oh I am SO SO GLAD I am not the only one who cannot watch Ted ever again.

        • RoseFyre says:

          Definitely not the only one. I "rewatched" Ted with Mark Watches…which meant I rewatched all the non-Ted bits and fastforwarded any time Ted was actually on screen. Because the other stuff is cute!

          • UnstrungZero says:

            I didn't start rewatching with Mark til 3×01, I'm not that big a fan of the first few seasons. So luckily I missed that one. Although I still made myself watch Dead Man's Party, which also squicks my anxiety, but not as downright panic-inducing as Ted.

            • RoseFyre says:

              I'm rewatching every episode. Ted is pretty much my exception – I just couldn't. There's definitely ones that hit me, though, but Ted is the worst.

              • UnstrungZero says:

                Yeah, I’m going to rewatch every episode now (whfg jngpurq Urycyrff juvyr pevatvat guebhtu zbfg bs vg), but too many of the early episodes just bug me, or I find myself waiting for them to grow up more. I don’t really like school/teen stuff. So I waited for S3. Well, I watched the last two of S2, as well. lol

    • Karen says:

      When it comes to Buffy I have two different levels of episodes that I don't rewatch. One level is the "meh I just don't care to see that episode again" which is what this falls under. My other category is "I MUST BE DRUNK TO WATCH THIS EPISODE" and there are a couple that fall into that category.

      • Seventh_Star says:

        you know, i don't think i've ever watched buffy while drunk. i feel like i've missed a great opportunity, here!

  13. Kari says:

    Ahh I really dislike reading these before I’ve re-watched them myself but if I’m late I always feel like I missed a lot of the party lol. Besides it’s this or pay attention to my lecture and I know which one will be more fun πŸ™‚

    Plus thanks to cordelias AWESOME line I knew that the Giles knockout count went up today without seeing it again lol. It’s now at 14.5 (he’s really on a roll this season)

  14. knut_knut says:

    Things I Liked:
    – I feel like Giles is getting snarkier <3 I really love when Cordelia gets to work with him.
    – We meet Willow’s mom!! She’s pretty awful, but I got my wish?
    – Oz and Xander work together to “save” the girls! RAT AMY!!

    Things I Didn’t Like:
    It’s not that I actively dislike this episode, but it really hits you over the head with THIS IS A WITCH HUNT. I feel like there was a subtler way to do it. And why were they burning the girls INSIDE the building? Isn’t burning at the stake an outside activity? Why doesn’t City Hall have a sprinkler system? I also LOVE Joyce, but she was so terrible in this episode and I wish the parents could remember what they did. It would be terrible, but I don’t really like how this episode ended with “lol creepy magic children! We’re not responsible for our actions!” and left it at that.

    • Ginsue says:

      "- We meet Willow’s mom!! She’s pretty awful, but I got my wish? "

      This had happened to me to! I had been wishing for a long time that Spike would make an reappearance. He does, zooms right through town, sets the ball rolling on a lot of heartache, and leaves happy while everyone else is torn. I got my wish?

      This also happened with Joyce finding out about the slaying.

  15. Hanna_the_Glam says:

    While I appreciate the INTENT of this episode, the execution of it really frustrated me. So Joyce is acting horrible. But it's because of an enchantment? Except kind of not? And the enchantment is widespread, so that it induces a mob mentality, except the Scoobies aren't affected by it? And in the end, we get no resolution of how Joyce feels about having ALMOST BURNED HER DAUGHTER at the stake? Aaaagh! I give up.

    So here are some random thoughts:

    – Joyce is rather hot at the start of this one. That hair really works for her.

    – Willow and her mom. I needed this. Their relationship explains so much. One thing I love about this show is how evil can be so melodramatic on the one hand, and so -banal- on the other.

    – Giles and Cordelia are WAY TOO MUCH FUN. They need to be guests on the Spike and Joyce morning show.

    -I've already discussed the deep and abiding love I have for Giles/Ethan. I also dearly love Giles/Jenny (except for the pain, OHGOD!). Well, this is a good opportunity to discuss another
    important Giles ship I have been secretly harboring: Giles/his Citroen. Seriously, they are the cutest pair ever! It reminds me of an ex-boyfriend I had, who was 6'2" and owned
    a '68 Beetle. He used to drive with his knees all scrunched up. V'yy arire sbetvir uvz sbe ercynpvat ure jvgu n lbhatre, fcbegvre OZJ. Jvgu na nhgbzngvp genafzvffvba. V NZ FB
    QVFNCCBVAGRQ VA LBH, TVYRF.

    – NZL GUR ENG! πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

    • Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

      Yeah, it always bothered me that they don't address Joyce's feelings at the end of this episode, since it was so Joyce-centric

      • Hanna_the_Glam says:

        Exactly! I was thinking we'd have some quality Joyceness here, but it left me hanging. In fact, it reminds me of how "The Pack" let the potential fallout of Xander's behavior just. . . slide on by, I guess.

    • Patrick721 says:

      "Spike and Joyce morning show."

      This needs to happen. And there can be a ratings war with Troy and Abed in the Morning.
      Oh god best fanfic idea ever someone write this.

    • _Bailey_ says:

      "Giles and Cordelia are WAY TOO MUCH FUN. They need to be guests on the Spike and Joyce morning show. "

      It is probably a good thing this never happened, because I seriously would have DIED FROM AN OVERLOAD OF HAPPINESS.

  16. Kickpuncher says:

    As I watched this episode, I realized that I don’t really remember much of what Cordelia does between “The Wish” and “Onq Tveyf” borpnhfr fur’f va guvf jrveq yvzob jurer fur’f abg ernyyl va gur tebhc orpnhfr bs gur jubyr Knaqre guvat, ohg fur unf gb or chg va gur rcvfbqr fbzrubj orpnhfr fur’f fgvyy va gur perqvgf. She was majorly glossed over in “Amends” where she just had a scene of “I’m going skiing, catch you jabronis later,” but she actually played a pretty major role in this episode despite not really being in the Scooby Group at this point in time. P.S., CORDELIA CAN YOU TEAM UP WITH GILES AND SOLVE CRIMES IN EVERY EPISODE? THIS IS A SEVERELY UNDER-USED COMIC DUO. (Vg’f fvzvyne gb Naln/Tvyrf, juvpu vf na rdhnyyl shaal pbzob)

    The Xander/Oz team-up seemed to exist just to eat up time, although I liked the punchline of them falling through the ceiling. I wish there had been some sort of hashing out of differences between Xander and Oz. Oz still feels like “Willow’s boyfriend” more than a fully-rounded character in his own right, and I can’t recall him having an actual conversation (as opposed to trading of witty barbs) with anyone other than Willow.

    • Karen says:

      Yeah, I don't like this weird limbo state Cordy is in. Like, I get that Buffy and Willow's loyalty is to Xander first because they are closer to himi and were friends with him first, but at the same time, Buffy and Willow seemed to be developing a real friendship with Cordy. And now that's all out the window and she's kind of an outsider again. She's lonely and surrounded by people just like she was in season 1.

      ALSO, I WOULD TOTALLY WATCH A SHOW WITH CORDY AND GILES IN AN ODD COUPLE TYPE CRIME SOLVING SHOW.

    • cait0716 says:

      Pbeqryvn jbexvat jvgu Tvyrf unf zr ernyyl ybbxvat sbejneq gb ure eryngvbafuvc jvgu Jrfyrl. Gurl unir n terng qlanzvp naq qrirybczrag

      Ok, so Glee comparison (because I'm still hopelessly addicted to that show). Quinn right now is reminding me a lot of Cordy this season. Their arcs have stagnated a bit because both of them have grown beyond high school before actually graduating. So they're still stuck here for a few more months, hanging out on the sidelines, waiting for life to catch up to them. Since Cordelia found out Xander was cheating on her and that the Cordettes were no longer willing to be friends with her, I think she's just done with everything in high school.

      • Kickpuncher says:

        Just watched Urycyrff, fb V xvaqn ungr Jngpuref, ohg V jvyy nyjnlf ybir Jrfyrl. Rfcrpvnyyl jvgu Pbeqryvn.

    • echinodermata says:

      Ebg13'q n cbegvba orpnhfr gur jnl lbh cuenfrq vg vafvahngrq n ovg gbb zhpu gung Pbeqryvn'f fgngr bs yvzob jvyy or erfbyirq fbba.

  17. Katie says:

    PMRC. I think Mark should watch Gilmore Girls. Lane Kim, is all I'm saying…

    • redheadedgirl says:

      I just did a rewatch of the seasons I have (1-5), and…. I honestly think his head would explode. There's so much casual slutshaming, fatshaming and homophobia that I just didn't notice when I was watching before (and they are never more apparent than in the episodes Daniel Palladino wrote. He has some fucked up ideas about how people should treat eachother).

      That said, Lane and Mama Kim is one of the dynamics that I loved watching the most.

    • Smurphy says:

      lol. YES!

  18. LadyViridis says:

    Oh my god, Buffy asks Angel if Sunnydale is better since she arrived. WHY COULDN’T THESE CHARACTERS REMEMBER “THE WISH”?

    I don't know, I don't think it would actually help most of the characters to remember the events of that other universe. Buffy has a lot on her plate already to worry about. Would it really be better if she remembered being that other, hardened person? Would it help Willow to see herself be that cruel and sadistic? For Xander to see himself as kind of a hapless lackey of evil?

    I suspect how much it would help them would depend on how they would remember it. It might help to know that's how things could have turned out, in an "omg this could have been so much worse" way. But if they actually remembered being those people? I don't think it would be helpful at all; it would be pretty terrifying. And then they'd have to ask themselves "…could I still become that?" It would probably be more painful than helpful if that was the case. And I feel like the characters have enough pain to deal with already, with more likely on the way, because Joss Whedon can't allow any of his characters to be happy. ):

    Anyway, yeah, Gingerbread. I thought it was an interesting subversion that Hansel and Gretel were the evil demons, and the witch was the target of the attack. And, of course, it's a useful lesson on mob mentality and "moral guardians" ruining everything, though I've seen that story before. I don't have too many strong feelings either way, though. It's a good episode, but not one I'd really rewatch often. I will say this, though: turning yourself into a rat is clearly not a helpful solution. Hopefully Amy can get turned back!

  19. enigmaticagentscully says:

    Witch-hunt episode! Literally this time.

    Joyce? Joyce honey, what are you doing? I have to admit I was pretty happy that it turned out those creepy demon kids were influencing her the whole time. Because god, how much worse would it have been if she had just done it all under her own steam? This sort of thing always freaks me out because you can SO easily see it happening. It was almost a relief when Joyce knocked out Buffy because that was the point when I knew…she’s not just under her own control by this point. And they confiscated Giles’ books! HOW VERY DARE YOU.

    FUCK that scene where they’re tied to the stakes though. I’ve had a serious fear of being burnt alive ever since I read my history textbook back at school years ago when we were studying the Tudors…it had a very graphic description of a guy being burnt at the stake and the fat in his body melting and his arms falling off and stuff. And there was a printing of a woodcut of the scene and everything. Just when you’re thinking how unbelievably horrific it is you realise that this was an actual real-life thing that happened to this poor guy. I think he was burnt for being a Catholic. Or a Protestant. Whichever one was wrong at the time, the Tudors did like to switch things up. If only I could remember his name…

    Anyway, let’s see, other things that jumped out at me…oh yeah, Giles and Joyce continue to be really awkward around each other because of the whole Band Candy thing and it’s kind of adorable? Look, I don’t exactly ship them, but I love Giles and I love Joyce and both of them love Buffy so…eh, if anything happens, I can deal. Right now it’s just being played for laughs though, and it’s sort of fabulous. Actually, I kinda platonically ship them? Like, it would be nice for Giles and Joyce to just hang out and stuff.

    “I found you unconscious. Again. How many times have you been knocked out anyway?”
    THANK YOU CORDY.

    But Jesus Christ on a bike, is Amy stuck as a rat now? Because…that ‘aint funny. Not at all.

    • darkwater says:

      heh.. Rat Amy

      I have to wonder how long Cordy had actually been slapping Giles before the camera went there. It seems like she had been going at it for at least a bit by then.

    • What, they'll get her one of those wheel thingies, she'll be fine.

    • Neet says:

      I don't know who he was (as you say, lots of switches in religion meant lots of people being the "wrong" religion) but if it was burning I would guess he was a Protestant and Mary I was monarch. She had a particular fondness for burning. They call her Bloody Mary for a reason.

      • enigmaticagentscully says:

        Darn, I wish i hadn't sold my old textbook now, it really annoys me that I don't remember who it was. :/

        • monkeybutter says:

          Could it have been Thomas Cranmer? Neet's right that there are so many choices, but he was the Archbishop of Canterbury, so it'd make sense if he was singled out. I've never heard a graphic description of his death, but the melting fat and whatnot isn't exactly atypical, and I know there are woodcuts of it.

          • enigmaticagentscully says:

            The name does ring a bell, but I think that's just because he was an important guy anyway. But hey, if anyone here is currently doing History A level and has this textbook, let me know! I think it was this one…

            <img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/6swbwg.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

            • Ryan Lohner says:

              Cranmer wasn't burned, he was crushed under rock. Complete with a totally badass moment where he was told he would be spared if he just confessed his guilt, and knowing this would result in his family becoming destitute, he just replied "More weight."

              • Kickpuncher says:

                That's actually Giles (!) Corey, who was executed that way during the Salem Witch Trials. RUPERT GILES' PREINCARNATION, Y/N?

              • MrsGillianO says:

                Cranmer was burned – he held the hand that had signed the recantation in the flames so it was consumed first, because it had offended God. Latimer and Ridley were burned, too – there's a big memorial in Oxford.

            • hamnoo says:

              I have been fascinated with witch trials and prosecutions since ever. It was worse in Europe, mostly because Americans still needed about a century to get properly settled before they started calling witch in Salem, and that was when the "movement" was already slowly receding in Europe. But Germany was horrifying, that I know for sure. I have book that is very well researched but at the same time very dense to read at home.

              • threerings13 says:

                Have you ever read the actual transcripts from the Salem Witch Trials? That is some messed up stuff.

        • John Small Berries says:

          This page has a number of burning-at-the-stake woodcuts; perhaps it's amongst them?

      • Meltha says:

        Elizabeth I did her fair share of burnings of Catholics as well.

    • Jenny_M says:

      Burning at the stake always got me, too. I remember reading about it happening to Joan of Arc and just not being able to comprehend what that would be like.

    • MzyraJ says:

      "FUCK that scene where they’re tied to the stakes though. … Just when you’re thinking how unbelievably horrific it is you realise that this was an actual real-life thing that happened to this poor guy."

      Oh god. When I was about seven, my family went to Madame Tussaud's waxwork museum thing and they had like a bad history section where there was a statue of Joan of Arc being burnt at the stake with red lighting and a soundtrack of crackling flames and screaming. Needless to say, I ran away and would not stop crying – and everyone was like "It's not real!" and I was like "I KNOW it's not real NOW, but they ACTUALLY DID THAT TO HER. ;.;" God, history makes humanity look TERRIBLE -.-'
      And the possible (metaphorical) accuracy of this episode makes it too hard for me to watch πŸ™

      • aliciaspinnet says:

        Oh dear, the Chamber of Horrors! I went there as an eleven year old kid, and didn't even make it past the first room.

        • MzyraJ says:

          Yeah, that was what it was called! I'm pretty sure that room was the one Joan was in, because I know I had to run through a number of other rooms (staring at the floor rather than looking at anything else) before I could escape the ~trauma~.
          I kind of get that that stuff is supposed to be educational, but children don't need to have certain aspects of history made THAT real for them. We know people killed people for ridiculous reasons (and still do -.-') and it was terrible, but, unless somebody's advocating returning to those methods, I don't think we need that level of realistic representation X|

      • RoseFyre says:

        *hugs* I hate that section of those sorts of museums. Horror is just not okay.

    • canyonoflight says:

      Ever since I read about Joan of Arc and the Salem Witch Trials, being burned at the stake has been on my top 3 lists of ways of dying that would be absolutely horrendous. Not sure if quartering is before or after.

      • enigmaticagentscully says:

        Heck, I burnt my finger for half a second on some curling tongs a few weeks back, and spent the rest of the day with my hand in a glass of icy water.

        I can't even begin to imagine how horrific it is to burn to death.

      • Delta1212 says:

        If it makes you feel better, burning was really a European thing. The Salem witches were just hanged.

      • threerings13 says:

        I read a LOT about the Salem Witch Trials for a paper in middle school, and I will never forget that one guy was executed by being CRUSHED TO DEATH BY STONES. Like he is trapped under a piece of wood and they keep adding rocks until he is crushed, slowing killing him. That always horrified me worse than being burnt because at least you usually pass out from smoke before you actually catch on fire.

        • CRB says:

          Oh, me too. Because that's just…horrifying. At least being burnt to death you had the hope of passing out from the heat/smoke, but being slowly crushed to death… that will never not horrify me.

          Well, that and the time I learned exactly how it is that crucifixion killed. Which, now that I think about it, was also drawn-out, painful suffocation, so I guess there's a pattern here…

        • anobium says:

          Being crushed with stones wasn't usually an execution method, it was for interrogation: "Heavy enough for you? All you have to do is confess, and this all goes away…" The whole point was that it was such a horrible way to go that the person under the stones was supposed to give up (I almost wrote "cave in") long before their actual life was in danger.

          Giles Corey was the guy who famously died that way during the Salem Witch Trials, and he stuck it out to the end because as long as he kept his mouth shut they wouldn't be able to do anything to his family after he was gone.

  20. spikesjojo says:

    Bxnl, fb qvq fbzrguvat unccra orgjrra Tvyrf naq Wblpr va β€œOnaq Pnaql”?

    Ur jnf yvxr n fgrirqber va orq….be ba gur cbyvpr pne…gjvpr…

    • echinodermata says:

      Rot13d first line.

      • spikesjojo says:

        It was a direct quote from what Mark wrote today – how can that be a spoiler?

        • misterbernie says:

          Because following the quote with a rot13 bit implies that there will be more on that subject in the future.

        • echinodermata says:

          What misterbernie said.

          Erfcbaqvat gb fbzrguvat Znex fnlf jvgu ebg13 trarenyyl vzcyvrf 'guvf pbzrf hc yngre.' Tvira gung Znex vf nfxvat n dhrfgvba, dhbgvat Znex va cynvagrkg naq gura gnyxvat va ebg13 pna or rnfvyl vagrecergrq gb zrna gur dhrfgvba trgf na nafjre yngre.

          V zvtug unir yrsg vg jrer gung vagrecergngvba bs 'dhrfgvba+ebg13=dhrfgvba trgf n shgher nafjre' vapbeerpg, ohg vg'f abg, fb.

  21. Nattlinnen says:

    I really like this episode.

    The magic-music-alternative style analogy works great!
    Willows teen age riot is beautiful! "Do you see any goats around?"
    It's nice to see Amy and I'm in love with Micheal.

    cyhf gur nzl vf n eng guvat. gubhtu ure ab ybatre n eng guvat va frnfba 6 vf fuvggl, naq fuvggl ntnva.

  22. Laneswitch says:

    * Joyce is just like my mom, always bonding at the wrong times
    * Gilligan cut. Love em to bits
    * does anyone else close their eyes at the akward bits and just wish them away? I can’t help but cringe like I’m the one who said something stupid
    * Joss, can anyone have nice parents? Why must Joyce be the only person diserving of kids?
    * YES JOYCE SHE IS EMBARASSED. Or maybe I’m just projecting
    * look it up, Buffy means Bunny. Or Elizabeth
    * Joyce, there’s a saying, “villans act, heroes react,” think hard before you tell someone like the slayer to start acting
    * did anyone else laugh when Buffy asked if her being in Sunnydale changed anything? I hope that was on purpose.
    * Joss, your existentialism is showing. I guess Angel really does read Satre
    * THEY’RE BURNING BOOKS!!!!!!! I’m glad Giles isn’t there to see it, i couldn’t stand anymore heart break from him

    Also, NO FAITH. COME ON WRITERS/PEOPLE WHO CREATED ELIZA’S CONTRACT. 

    Over all, this is one of those episodes I’ll forget by tommorrow. The only thing I’ll remember is Nzl naq ure engarff, orpnhfr vg'f erbppheevat naq whfg cynva 

    • enigmaticagentscully says:

      I love how the fact that they're burning books is more awful to you than burning people. πŸ˜›

      • Hanna_the_Glam says:

        Well, the people have defenses of some sort. But the books are completely helpless!

      • RoseFyre says:

        Well, when you rewatch, you know that all the people survive, but those poor books! Some of them actually get burned, and then they all get covered in water! And that can seriously ruin books. [/librarian]

    • Tornflames says:

      "Joss, can anyone have nice parents? Why must Joyce be the only person diserving of kids? "

      My headcanon is that all the good parents at some point noticed Junior's playgroup had a 41% survival rate and decided Sunnydale ain't no place for children, so to speak.

      Joyce is an exception because she learns about Buffy's slayer-ness relatively quickly after they move there.

  23. Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

    Man I always try and write down what I’m thinking while I’m watching the episode, but I tend to get distracted about halfway through. Though I really made more of an effort this time. I don’t like this episode… I don’t hate it, but it’s generally one I skip. There are some pros. I enjoy seeing Joyce make an effort to be more of a part of Buffy’s life… Even though it’s not really helping, it’s coming from a loving place (I’m referencing when she goes out to visit Buffy while slaying, not her going overboard with M.O.O. I also enjoyed the scene after Joyce finds the children and Buffy needs to console her. It’s like she’s the parent, and I think furthers that discovery when you’re growing up and realizing that your parents are humans and they need comfort and reassurance too. I think it’s interesting to see the way the people of Sunnydale react to possibly acknowledging that demons and whatnot exist… As the audience, at least for me, it can get annoying that the regular people living in Sunnydale are completely ignorant of the things going on around them… but then when you get to this episode you realize that maybe it is better if they are. Oh I also like that little discussion where Buffy is questioning if Sunnydale is any better… Considering this episode is so close after “The Wish” I think we the audience can say a confident, “YES”. Funniest episode moment would have to be Giles + Computer.

    There are obviously other powerful and interesting things that are going on in this episode but I think that Mark addresses them really well, better than I ever could.

    Okay so maybe I don’t really dislike this episode; there’s just something about that I can’t explain…

    (V arire ernyvmrq ubj vashevngvat Knaqre jnf hagvy V fgnegrq er-jngpuvat gur fubj va beqre… V guvax gung ur ernyyl zngherf guebhtubhg gur frevrf; fb frrvat uvz va gurfr rcvfbqrf pbzcnerq gb yngre barf znxrf zr qvfyvxr uvz fb zhpu! Abg gung ur jnf cresrpg yngre… *Fuviref ng gur gubhtug bs “Uryyf Oryyf”)*

    • Danny_SAP says:

      I find it pretty "meh" as well. And there's nothing particularly… bad about it. It's a little heavy, but Buffy's not thematically subtle as a rule, so it's not like that's unusual. If I wasn't doing my recapping thing I probably would have skipped it like I often do on rewatches. I wonder what it is that makes it such an easily missed episode?

  24. Karen says:

    OH AND ALSO, ON THE SUBJECT OF CONTROLLING PARENTS: I too was raised in a Christian home and my mom didn't let me watch anything above G or PG until I was like 12 or 13 and then it was like she stopped caring and it was all "anything goes!" for some reason and suddenly it was ok for me to watch "Gladiator" and "The Patriot". LOL OK MOM. WHATEVER YOU SAY.

    She also didn't let me buy music with a parental advisory sticker on it, but that didn't bother me because I was into pop music and folk type music which never got slapped with those stickers.

    • darkwater says:

      My mom had issues with us watching The Simpsons and Friends. We watched anyway, cause.. screw that noise.

      Got to watch X-Files of course.

      • Karen says:

        I snuck over to a friends house to watch The Simpsons and Friends. But my mom wasn't quite as strict about TV as she was about movies. Mostly my lack of TV growing up was because a) my family didn't [and still doesn't] have cable and b) we only had one TV in the house and my mom wouldn't let us watch anything she didn't want to watch. LOL.

      • fantasylover120 says:

        Friends? I kind of understand the Simpsons but Friends? What the heck is wrong with Friends? That's like the most PG show in the universe. And honestly even the Simpsons isn't exactly hardcore. Sigh, I really don't get the logic behind censorship sometimes. Especially as like everyone here is pointing out: you can just watch it over at your friends house.

        • darkwater says:

          It was really more of disapproval rather than active prevention. I don't really remember anything more than "I don't want you watching that" type things but as a kid it was super annoying.

          For Friends I'm pretty sure the only reason had to do with Ross' ex.. you know the one that turned out to be a lesbian? Yup, that's all. Friends did start in '94 though so I think that was still a fairly new (slightly risky) thing to put on network television.

      • lyvanna says:

        Heh, those were the two shows I wasn't allowed to watch (along with others I'm sure but those were the ones all my friends watched/talked about). I still remember when I finally saw an episode of each of them (at different times), it felt so forbidden… exciting and a bit scary. Which is strange when you consider both are pretty tame shows.

        (I have younger siblings and when my parents finally relented and let us watch those shows I was always a little peeved because we were all allowed to watch them at the same time when I was about 15/16 and my younger siblings were 9 and 12…. like… how can…I don't understand….)

    • robin_comments says:

      I wasn't allowed to watch anything R rated until I was 17, any TV that included sexually active characters (so 90210 and Melrose Place were EXPRESSING forbidden for these reasons), or any music featuring anything resembling cussing. Plus, X-Files was too violent.

      Which, you know, accomplished absolutely nothing. because I just snuck around their backs to read books that were a 1,000 times "worse" and saw movies at my friends' houses.

    • LucyGoosey says:

      I always felt so alone that I wasn't allowed to watch what my classmates were. Which meant PG-13 and R rated movies when I was like 7. I must have internalized the rules, because the response to wanting to rent an R movie when I was 14 was "sure whatever"

    • banagaray says:

      My parents were not controlling with tv or movies or music.

      my siblings and i were weaned on horror movies and disney. we watched that shit as a family.

  25. Heeeeey, everybody, let's talk about MUSIC.

    By which I mean, be my friend on Last.fm, where Nine Inch Nails is my Top Artist.

    • Nattlinnen says:

      I have never been so incompatible with a person with such a good taste in music! For the record: http://www.last.fm/user/Pfhaota I only use it to track music, nothing more.

    • Jenny_M says:

      Here is mine but it looks like I haven't scrobbled anything since 2010 when I got a new computer and never downloaded the plugin. WHOOPS.

        • Jenny_M says:

          Huh, I replied to this and now it's gone. I have no idea why. Spam filter, maybe? Who knows. Anyway, I was just saying that I have a severe love for Regina. When I lived in New York, I used to go to her shows when she was playing little venues around the city, and a bunch of us would wait around afterwards. I've met her a lot and there are a couple pictures of us together and now she plays big, important places and I go and see her and am ridiculously proud of her, but I do miss the ability to tell her like…hey, you are awesomesauce.

          • Aw, that's cool! I remember seeing Tegan and Sara at Cafe du Nord, never having listened to them at all, and meeting them afterward to buy CDs and get things signed and take pictures and stuff, and now, of course, they play big, important places. It's nice when deserving musicians make it big.

    • sirintegra42 says:

      Music compatability is SUPER, unsurprisingly :D. They're (he's? I never know which pronoun to use) my second at the moment but there isn't much in it.

      • Ooh, I've never heard of Seth Lakeman.

        And Biffy Clyro! I saw them last year and liked them, but I don't know what any of the songs I liked were and haven't listened to them since.

        • sirintegra42 says:

          He's a folk singer from my part of the world so I doubt many people outside of the UK have really, or many people outside of folk music fans in the UK :).

          I saw Biffy about four years ago now. It was my first gig so I wasn't quite used to having my face melted off as I am now. It was still a great night though, even if I came out of it practically soaked in beer.

    • enigmaticagentscully says:

      Are we still allowed to talk about music if our iPod is filled with Dolly Parton, J-Pop, six years of Eurovision and the soundtrack to Doctor Who?

      Just…hypothetically?

    • Fuchsia says:

      Erm… my last.fm is actually currently spoilery for Buffy? OOPS. But, anyway. http://www.last.fm/user/dorkyvegan

      • Nattlinnen says:

        As you listen to Patrick Wolf I must recommend Final Fantasy/Owen Pallet. It's like a reflex.

        • notemily says:

          Oh man, I remember when I first discovered Final Fantasy. I was OBSESSED. I drove to another STATE to see him play and he did the Mariah Carey cover and I was over the moon.

          • Nattlinnen says:

            Me too! I was about 14 years old. It was a freezing rainy autumn day 2006 and we had some kind of event at my school, walking between different sites of "literary significance" in Stockholm (Sweden). For some odd reason I came to talk about the use of violin in pop music and The Clash with an indiecool girl. Anyway, she recommended Final Fantasy and wham, was my mind blown!

            And hey, I travelled from Stockholm to London to see him!

            I'll just drop this here for adorableness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_nw7bODiQ4

      • sirintegra42 says:

        Yayy for Patrick Wolf. I got to see him last year in London and it was completely fantastic. Tristan is particularly brilliant live.

        • Fuchsia says:

          Patrick Wolf is one of my all-time favourite musicians/people. I pretty much want to be him. That's my goal in life. Except not musically because my singing voice sounds like a goose being strangled. But everything else. His Lycanthropy album really helped me come to terms with horrible things in my past and whenever I feel down, I put on Lupercalia and it's impossible to not dance around and feel great while listening to that.

          I've never seen him live because he doesn't come to the US that often [once, he went to Chicago but I didn't know it at the time, I found out the next month when we were at the same venue to see Propagandhi and there was still a tour poster up]. Some day, though. Even if I have to travel to England to see him. And then my list of bands I Absolutely Must See Live will be nearly complete [just have to cross off Rise Against and Dropkick Murphys as well…].

          • sirintegra42 says:

            It's pretty much impossible to feel unhappy while listening to The City, it's got that cheesy saxaphone solo and the video looks like something dredged up from Duran Duran's back catalogue <3. He really is a wonderful person. Every time I've heard him talk or read interviews he's seemed lovely. Did you know he's got a Tumblr? It's at http://patrickwolfpalisade.tumblr.com/

            I'm sure he'll come back to the US sometime but otherwise it would definitely be worth flying out here to see him. His voice is completely astonishing. I actually almost cried when he started singing.

    • nanceoir says:

      Okay, you've inspired me to visit my Last.fm page, which I haven't done for ages.

      I look at it and think, "Wait, what are all these things on here that I don't have and don't recognize and are from more than a year ago? What's going on here?" And then I remember: I set up Last.fm on my Xbox and used their streaming thing a few times.

      Oops.

      I'm also thinking I should maybe think about scrobbling things again, for those times when I do play music.

    • lawrence_s says:

      Oh man, now I'm kind of embarrassed now by the narrowness of my music collection, at least as represented on last.fm. I think it's because I'm kind of particular about what I actually include in my library? I don't download individual tracks ever, so unless I have a whole album by an artist, I don't have any of their songs at all.

      (Plus, I reset my library not long ago when I decided to go with some representation of my real name everywhere online instead of using an alias.)

      Either way, my tiny, not yet statistically significant collection is here.

    • http://www.last.fm/user/poppetawoppet

      if you don't mind terrible obsession with American Idol and awesome movie soundtracks πŸ˜€

    • misterbernie says:

      I last fm, too, currently with an extreme focus on Norwegian rock/punk rock.

    • notemily says:

      Our compatibility is VERY HIGH!

  26. guest_age says:

    What bothers me so much about this is that the demon doesn't really do anything–it just creates a situation and lets parental nature take its course, unless I've been grossly misunderstanding this for quite awhile now.

    And even if I were? SERIOUSLY, this is not helping me get over the hatred "Ted" inspired me to want to fling at Joyce. My rage with her has reached truly ridiculous levels to the point that I feel like it's almost at the point of parody.

    I do enjoy the awkward Oz and Xander interactions and how neither of them quite knows what to do with the other just yet.

    • Karen says:

      I think there is definitely something mystical that influences the parents. Joyce would NEVER burn Buffy at the stake if she were behaving like herself. The demon seems to prey on and incite feelings. Joyce isn't really acting under her own power here. She's not 100% acting under her own power in "Ted" either because he was drugging her. But this situation is pretty clearly demonic influence and control. I mean, she starts the episode bringing Buffy snacks while she slays and wanting to share in that part of her life, so if Joyce were really herself, it doesn't make sense that she'd go from that to "burn her!" by the end of the episode.

      • ghostofdurruti says:

        Agreed, but…she isn't entirely not herself, either. Na nanybtbhf pnfr jbhyq or gung bs gur cnenabvn qrzba sebz Ner Lbh Abj be Unir Lbh Rire Orra. Gur qrzba vasyhraprq crbcyr gb ghea ba rnpu bgure, ohg vg qvq fb ol cerlvat ba srnef naq vafrphevgvrf nyernql cerfrag va vgf ivpgvzf. V guvax gung Unafry naq Tergry jbex va n fvzvyne znaare.

  27. hpfish13 says:

    Oh! Me neither! I wasn't allowed to watch Captain Planet (or the Animaniacs or Pinky and the Brain), but we didn't get those channels anyway, so I grew up watching PBS and a tape of cartoons from the 40's through the 60's.

  28. enigmaticagentscully says:

    Also:

    “We never win. We never will. That's not why we
    fight. We do it 'cause there's things worth fighting for."

    (Lord of the Rings spoilers)
    Qbrfa'g gung yvar gbgnyyl erzvaq lbh bs Fnz'f fcrrpu gb Sebqb va Gur Gjb Gbjref zbivr??

    • katherinemh says:

      GURER'F FBZR TBBQ VA GUVF JBEYQ, ZE. SEBQB, NAQ VG'F JBEGU SVTUGVAT SBE.

      <img src="http://i.imgur.com/JQ7aP.gif&quot; alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" />

    • sirintegra42 says:

      That came into my mind too, the wording is so similar.

    • darkwater says:

      “Jr arire jva. Jr arire jvyy. Gung'f abg jul jr svtug. Jr qb vg 'pnhfr gurer'f guvatf jbegu svtugvat sbe."

      V jnag gb cbvag guvf bhg, ohg qbvat vg jvgu ebg whfg fb V qba'g nppvqragnyyl fcbvy nalbar. Ohg guvf dhbgr ol Natry orpbzrf irel cbvtanag va uvf bja frevrf, rfcrpvnyyl gbjneq frnfba 5. Ab qbhog gung jnf cneg bs gur ohvyq gbjneq Natry tbvat bss ba uvf bja.

    • Patrick721 says:

      That line made me think of this line from Castle (rot13'd just in case):

      "Ur'f evtug. V fcrag zbfg bs zl yvsr jnyxvat oruvaq guvf onqtr, naq V pna gryy lbh guvf sbe n snpg, gurer ner ab ivpgbevrf. Gurer'f bayl gur onggyr. Naq gur orfg gung lbh pbhyq ubcr sbe vf gung lbh svaq fbzrcynpr jurer lbh pbhyq znxr lbhe fgnaq. Vs guvf vf lbhe fcbg, V jvyy fgnaq jvgu lbh."

  29. Inseriousity. says:

    I love this episode!! It's such a nice little murder mystery for the first half then second half it's actually oops it's not a murder after all.

    "One of these days you're going to wake up in a coma" LOL best line ever.

  30. monkeybutter says:

    Fuck the P.M.R.C. and fuck Tipper Gore.

    You brought a little tear to my eye. And made me incredibly thankful that I was raised by people who feel the same way.

    (PS, my kingdom for an appropriate Helen Lovejoy gif)

  31. darkwater says:

    So.. half way through and we're at 31.

    I really don't know how many people/things/demons/others get killed on screen but I suspect we'll fall short of Mark's prediction of 112.

    • LadyViridis says:

      V qba'g xabj, gur qrngu pbhag va Tenqhngvba Qnl vf cerggl uvtu.

      • darkwater says:

        Gehr.

        Gur Znlbe, Falqre, Unezbal (juvpu jr svaq bhg yngre), Yneel.. frireny inzcverf.

        Jr pna nffhzr gurer ner zber qrnq fghqragf ohg jr ner gnyxvat ba fperra qrnguf urer.

        Jr nyfb trg gur Qrchgl Znlbe, Gevpx, naq gung nepunrbybtvfg rneyvre. Gurer ner gur gjb Jngpuref va "Urycyrff" cyhf gur inzcver uvzfrys.

        Fb whfg bss gur gbc bs zl urnq jr'ir tbg ng yrnfg nabgure gra pregnvayl, boivbhfyl zber fvapr V qvqa'g pbhag gur inevrgl bs inzcverf xvyyrq orsber gur svanyr.

        V org jr'yy oernx svsgl ng yrnfg ol gur raq.

  32. stephanie says:

    Jvyy Nzl erznva n eng sberire?

    zhununununun!!!!!! whfg fnlva πŸ™‚

  33. Ginsue says:

    Slightly confused. Did the demon children have a supernatural hold on the community, or are people in Sunnydale not only ignorant of the supernatural, have laser-guided amnesia, but easily influenced? I like to think they had a bit of supernatural influence. As much as I am aware of how good people are capable of horrible actions, I do not like to think that Joyce can be so blase about her daughter burning alive! It is very OOC.

    I am slightly glad I didn't have a lot of restrictions as a child. I grew up in a single parent home, and in most single parent homes the adult and the child provide a mutual support, and single parent children are more likely to collaborate and help make decisions with their parents. I was genuinely baffled by some restrictions that my friends had in their home. I knew someone who couldn't watch Matilda because her father thought she would get ideas. I was affected by these parental scares, as I was the bad influence, the "Bunny Summers" of the friend, only because I did not know some things were 'restricted.'

    Upside: As much as Cordelia tries to resist the group, she is always drawn back in. =3

    • robin_comments says:

      Upside: As much as Cordelia tries to resist the group, she is always drawn back in.
      yes! It's one of the things I love about her, that as much as she tries to be "normal" and shallow, it seems like in the end she's always going to join the fight — despite all her protests & excuses, Cordelia steps up when things get real.

      • Ginsue says:

        "despite all her protests & excuses, Cordelia steps up when things get real. "

        And things always get real. Cordelia just cannot fight it.

  34. Abygail says:

    I never really did like this episode too much. Maybe it's because I didn't grew up in a environment that believed you were evil for listening to "satanic music", or maybe just because I had a very relaxed family.

    I do always get a little sad when I see people obsess or protest or whatever over matters that don't actually affect them. In this case they might have been a bit affected (because of all the unnatural deaths in Sunnydale), but I can't see why people would want to harm Buffy or Willow because they're different.

    It's like a movie I saw a while ago, "A Girl Like Me", about a 17 year old transsexual girl who gets killed because some boys find out she still has a penis. And then when the funeral is there, there are actually people protesting and holding up signs… I mean wtf are they doing? Why would you harass someone just because you don't agree on their way of life.

    Oh well… let's just say, it's episodes like this, and movies like that that make me very glad I live here in the Netherlands, and not in the USA – especially since I am a bit of a weird case as well, being a lesbian transsexual woman. I doubt I would've been so comfortable with that in the USA πŸ˜‰

  35. BornIn1142 says:

    I am REALLY happy that Joyce's stupid and exaggerated behavior in this episode was the result of mind-altering ghost magic. I hoped and prayed it would be something like this; she and the rest of the crusaders really pissed me off as I was watching.

  36. To this day, I like to tease my mother about the fact that she made exceptions to this rule for two things: The X-Files and The Silence of the Lambs. I mean, I cannot believe those were acceptable, but staying up past 8pm on weekday was highly uncalled for. She readily admits that she made little sense when raising me with these rules.

    My mum was like… the total opposite of your mother. My parents were nurses and worked opposite shifts so that someone would always be around to look after me. So when my Dad was working night shifts, I would sleep in my parents' bed with my mum to keep her company.

    Now, my mum gets insomnia sometimes. She starts thinking about something and WHAMMO. She cannot sleep (I never have trouble sleeping because I am completely lacking in reflective thought – can't say I envy anyone who's particularly reflective).

    So OBVIOUSLY the solution is to watch the scariest horror movies EVER so that she can scare herself silly and thus go to sleep without any of whatever was bothering her running around in her brain.

    And I was probably around 4 or 5 at the time. In the bed. Watching stuff like Hellraiser with her.

    I'm pretty much burned out for scary movies.

  37. enigmaticagentscully says:

    "I know I am probably preaching to the choir at this point, as I’m sure plenty of you had music, books, television, or movies that spoke to you on such an intimate level that they were yours. They helped you through difficult times. They gave you hope. They gave you strength."

    The X Files. SO MUCH for me. I literally have no freaking idea who I'd be today without that show. This is kinda on topic for what you said in your review, so I'll hope you'll excuse a quick Buffy-less diversion as I quote something I wrote on my Tumblr a while back…

    The X Files was the first TV show I ever really got into and I will not hear A WORD AGAINST IT. Ok, so I’m exaggerating a little. It wasn’t ALL perfect. But trust me, I could go on for hours about this show, and frequently do.
    First of all The X Files is just straight up an awesome show. It’s got great actors, great writing, great plots…stand alone episodes that keep you interested and a loooong overarching storyline that’s slowly revealed as the show progresses. But more than that, The X Files always felt like someone had designed a show specifically for me. It’s pretty much ideally what I needed. When I was younger I used to watch TV, sure, but I never really cared. Nothing made much of an impact on me, and, frankly, life was pretty dull. I ate, I slept, I went to school.
    Then my best friend told me to watch The X Files.

    And it was like someone had peeled back the grey corners of the sky, and beyond them there was this great big world – terrifying and brilliant and beautiful; full of strange conspiracies and whispers behind closed doors. Dripping, oppressive forests with monsters and death, and dark secrets behind glossy suburbia. It was more than just a TV show to me. Suddenly life was vast and complicated and dangerous. What happened in The X Files mattered to me, and I would wait by the door for my DVDs to come and sit in my room on the edge of my seat, devouring season after season. It showed me what TV could be, what TV SHOULD be. Characters that felt real. Writing that drew you in, but was never patronising or obvious. An atmosphere that stayed with you long after you’d finished the episode.

    At a time in my life when pretty much everything sucked, this one show about aliens and conspiracies put everything in perspective. It also introduced me to science fiction, and the big wide wonderful world of fandom. I owe it (and my best friend for introducing me to it) EVERYTHING.

    …hence my username. πŸ˜›

  38. 1979semifinalist says:

    V guvax vg’f cerggl zhpu npprcgrq ng guvf cbvag va gur frevrf gung Tvyrf naq Wblpr cebonoyl frk (ng yrnfg bapr) haqre gur Onaq Pnaql vasyhrapr.

    Bs pbhefr, sbe gubfr bs hf jub unir frra zber…jr xabj gurl QRSVAVGRYL unq frk.

    O_O

  39. jne says:

    Okay, so did something happen between Giles and Joyce in “Band Candy”? Either they did something more than hang out, or they are currently dating. I kind of like this idea?

    My interpretation. Remember when Buffy burst in on Mom and Giles. Giles is going through the albums… They try to throw her off, hide the wine, give her a mini-lecture and send her off with the car keys? As soon as she's gone, Giles lights Ye Olde Symbolically Post-coital Cigarette…..

  40. red ira says:

    If I remember correctly, there was a similar witchhunt with dungeons and dragons.

  41. BGF says:

    One thing I love about this episode: Hansel and Gretel are just "two children" two the public. All the outrage is about "two children", to the extent where nobody even notices that they don't have names or parents – nobody cares about who they were, just what they represent. It's a small detail, but it's a great representation of how moral panic tends to be self-propelled, running away with people without anyone stopping to question the details and asking what actually happened. Which is repeated in Buffy's argument with Joyce, and Willow's argument with Sheila. By the time someone starts asking questions, everyone else has already locked themselves into a solution and anyone questioning it is clearly on the side of the monsters.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on."

    • enigmaticagentscully says:

      Yeah, well the truth has got it's boots on. And it's about to start kicking.

      • BGF says:

        Which is one of the best things about this show. πŸ™‚

        Also, I meant to add (but was in Willowy overanalysing mode and forgot) HELL TO THE YES on Mark's comments about music getting me through high school. Thanks, man.

  42. nanceoir says:

    I think my favorite thing about this episode is Giles first yelling at the computer and then, when he has Oz move over, squinting at the computer as he tries to read what's on the screen.

    <img src="http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/396/squintygiles.jpg&quot; alt="Squinty Giles is squinty">

    Be more perfect, Giles; come on, I dare you.

  43. @sesinkhorn says:

    OMG Mark, how do you SPEAK TO MY HEART SO WELL. My father was really overbearing growing up because he's just naturally a controlling person, and my parents were getting divorced and he wasn't in control of the situation and he reacted by being strict to the point of ridiculousness and etc etc etc. Um. Anyway.

    I can completely relate to having my music taken away from me because of those damn stupid parental warnings. Music that helped my little introverted self understand the anger/betrayal/sadness I was feeling because of the things I was going through. AND MY DAD TOOK THEM AWAY BECAUSE OH NO "BAD LANGUAGE." This is also what drives me FUCKING INSANE about all these folks coming out of the woodwork now that YA is getting super popular and talking about how it's SO AWFUL that children are being exposed to all this horrible, dark, deviant literature. SURELY the only teens who could relate to such material are the ones living horrible, dark, deviant lives.

    Nah, man. This little white-bread goodie-girl found a whole HELL of a lot of comfort in that literature and that music. Go away.

    • arctic_hare says:

      Don't use the word "insane" on this site.

    • fantasylover120 says:

      That complaint about YA annoys me too. Especially as I've found ten times darker stuff in the classics that teenagers are required to read for school. I mean hello, Lord of the Flies? Romeo and Juliet is also not exactly happy go lucky story and that's pretty much required for Freshman.

  44. kte says:

    Joyce's jacket/blazer thing she had on at school was very Scully-esque

  45. red ira says:

    I once read a book about the actual background of Hansel and Gretel. They even were able to figure out the name of the actual "witch" and excavetad remnants of her house. So it turned out that the "witch" was a baker famous for her gingerbread and Hansel and Gretel were adults and killed her for her recipe.

    • caia says:

      D:

      You know, everything I read about "witches" shows that they were usually the wronged party. Midwife who can't save every mother/child? WITCH! Woman with respect and authority outside the Catholic Church? WITCH!

  46. MichelleZB says:

    Seriously, WTF was up with your mom, Mark? Like, I know you've forgiven her and all, but what she did was incredibly ignorant, stupid, and cruel. You were a CHILD for chrissake. It makes me a little bit sick.

    I am okay with it if you delete this post.

  47. Plactus says:

    Didn't really keep good bullet point thoughts on this episode, so here's a loose collection of thoughts:

    • Amy was always one of my favorite minor characters, so I'm surprised I never tracked this episode down. (Ubjrire, xabjvat gur ebyr fur cynlf va frnfba fvk vf bar bs gur ernfbaf V'ir cerggl zhpu qrpvqrq gb yrg zl jngpuvat bs gung frnfba fgnaq ng gur zhfvpny, juvpu V'ir frra, naq znlor "Gnohyn Enfn," juvpu V unira'g) I'm a little disappointed how little she was in this episode (Abg nf qvfnccbvagrq nf V jnf va ubj yvggyr fur jnf va "Fbzrguvat Oyhr" nsgre frrvat ure anzr va gur perqvgf, ohg gung jnf n wbxr, naq shaal bapr vg jnf qbar.); as far as I can tell the only reason she was in this episode was so people wouldn't ask "If they're rounding up witches, where's Amy?"
    • Xander… stop trying to convince everyone that the thing with Willow's in the past and… let it be in the past. Then maybe they'll believe you.
    • "I know it's important to keep fighting and I learned that from you…. We never win…. We never will. That's not why we fight. We do it 'cause there's things worth fighting for." This is one of my favorite themes, and I never get tired of hearing it. Thanks, Angel. Ur pbhyq ernyyl hfr fbzrbar gb gryy uvz fbzrguvat fvzvyne va n pbhcyr lrnef; zvtug trg uvz gb uvf rcvcunal fbbare.
    • Incidentally, I wish there was someone who remembered the Wishverse. Buffy could use that person telling her that even if her actions haven't made Sunnydale a better place, her actions have saved Sunnydale from becoming an even worse place. [I had the same thought as Mark!]
    • "Do you see any goats around? No, because I sacrificed them!" Something about the idea of sacrificing goats amuses me. I don't know why. (Frr nyfb, "Ercevfr.")
    • Cordelia: As much head trauma as Giles has had, slapping him to try to wake him may not be the best idea.

  48. fantasylover120 says:

    God, I remember all that stuff in the nineties (I was in high-school/middle-school) and thankfully my parents both thought that stuff was crap and didn't restrict anything I watched/restricted/read which is probably good because that was the time I was diving neck deep into Harry Potter and getting into this show. After talking to friends I've realised how lucky I was with that. I honestly have no real feelings about this ep beyond "I hate censorship."
    Daily Buffy Quotable
    "Good honey, kill him!"-Joyce
    "This is a burrito."-Oz
    "I doubt your doubt."-Cordelia
    "It's more a verbal non verbal."-Xander
    "I love the smell of desperate librarian in the morning."-Snyder
    "Did that sentance just make a sense that I'm not in on?"-Buffy
    "You stupid useless fad! That's right, I said fad!"-Giles
    "Yeah it's all falling into place. Of course that place is no where near here."-Buffy
    "How many times have you been knocked out anyway? I swear one of these days you're going to wake up in a coma."-Cordelia

  49. Kickpuncher says:

    You know with that locker search, it's almost like ZNTVP VF QEHTF YBY.

    • VYY-PBAPRVIRQ ZRGNCUBE FCBVYRE.

    • sirintegra42 says:

      ZNTVP=QEHTF OHG NYFB YRFOVNAVFZ. Uzzzzz, fvqr rlrvat gur jevgref evtug abj.

    • Patrick721 says:

      Nabgure frevrf V'ir ernq pbzcnerf qnex zntvp gb na nqqvpgvir fhofgnapr, ohg unf n jnl orggre nanybtl.
      "Gung jnf oynpx zntvp. Vg jnf rnfl naq sha gb hfr. Yvxr Yrtbf."

      Bs pbhefr, gurl tb vagb n ybg zber qrgnvy orpnhfr Zntvp vf vagevafvpnyyl yvaxrq gb oryvrs; lbh pna'g qb fbzrguvat jvgu zntvp vs lbh qba'g oryvrir va vg 100%. Urapr gur onq bs hfvat vg gb xvyy/znvz/ernq fbzrbar'f zvaq be zvaq pbageby gurz; Vg'f gnxvat n shaqnzragny sbepr bs yvsr naq perngvba naq gjvfgvat vg. "Yvxr orngvat fbzrbar gb qrngu jvgu n Obggvpryyv."

  50. John says:

    None of the past few reviews have been showing up on the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" link. That's the link I keep bookmarked, so since Monday, I thought Mark was either taking an extended vacation or was in the hospital or something. Glad to see they're still going strong. =3

  51. Ryan Lohner says:

    This will always be one of the greatest comments on this kind of thing.

    [youtube DMiMc3HrY4Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMiMc3HrY4Q youtube]

  52. Meltha says:

    Granted, I actually did know a few kids in high school who were satanists, in the extremely scary way, but the weird thing is the ones who actually were into that kind of stuff didn't listen to that kind of music to begin with. They gravitated a heck of a lot towards Nazi symbols, though.

  53. Elisa says:

    I just want to chime in to agree that i hate censorship of all kinds. I think any type of censorship just dumbs society down. So you're not comfortable with a song, movie, book? Fine. Don't read it. Or maybe think about why it makes you so damn uncomfortable, it's probably something you need to deal with. When I was a freshman in college, a group in Alamogordo, NM (about forty minutes from where I live) decided to burn Harry Potter books because of the "witchcraft" and messages of evil in it. I remember being livid, I remember hating that these ignorant people were going to burn a book they had never even read. UGH.

    My hatred for censorship and bigotry burns with the passion of a thousand suns.

  54. Danielle says:

    I have to admit, I never went through something like this in high school. I was a bit of a good kid and even if I weren't my parents were the encouraging types–when my sister wanted to explore Wicca they bought her a book and gave her space.

    Fast forward to collage, when I find myself exploring Wicca and Paganism. I wasn't worried about my parents, but I was concerned about my born-again fiance. That's when this episode came out for me. It really didn't do much to comfort me. Even today, I still worry that maybe other parents don't want my children socializing with them or that I may not get hired because people are misinformed on what I believe.

    I mean look at some of the things parent groups have gotten worked up about in the past: Harry Potter, Pokemon, Teletubbies.

    • _Bailey_ says:

      My dad always hated Teletubbies, because he thought it worked against more educational kids' shows like Sesame Street. We were never banned from watching it, though.

  55. misterbernie says:

    Again I miss out on ~thoughts~ because my sleep rhythm is fucked upper than usual (also, Crusader Kings 2 has come out and that takes precedence over rewatching Buffy), but eh, one thing I need to comment on: I finally read the German part in the script and compared it to what's on screen and it's actually not bad. I've certainly heard worse pronunciation, but the intonation/stress is somewhat off, but, eh, I'll take what I can get.
    When I first saw/heard it, I did assume it was wronger than it is because the offness of stress/intonation makes it sound worse.

    German title: Hänsel und Gretel… I'll assume I won't need to provide a retranslation.

    • arctic_hare says:

      I've been waiting for your comment because I was really curious about that!

      Also, you know, your general awesomeness. But that goes without saying. <3

      • misterbernie says:

        The snarkiest I can think of is that "Hecate ruft euch an" sounds more like "Hecate is giving you a phone call" than "Hecate calls upon you", but that's kinda an unavoidable modern-connotation-thing.

        Aw <3 yeah, apparently my body thinks it's a real good idea to go to sleep at 2pm and wake up at 11pm.

        Can't really say much more about the ep; it's mostly silly filler for me, but then again, I had the luck of not having to fear my mother discovering stuff – not because I was a goody two shoes, but because there was little I needed to hide.
        Hell, even Xander's ~relatable teenage boy fear~ wasn't really mine, because my ersatz porn for a long time was Bravo (youth magazine that had a double page of interviews with a guy and a girl in every issue, complete with full nude shot to teach teens to accept their body), and my mom bought that for me each week (also, dude, why do you take your porn to school).

        • hamnoo says:

          Giles speaking German is one of the funniest moments of the show to me, mainly because I have to remind myself that he is speaking German because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HIM.

          • misterbernie says:

            Haha, YES. That's why I stressed that I looked the text up in the script. Once I know what it's supposed to be, it's easier to hear it in what's said, but the first time I gave ASH my what is this face.

        • t09yavosaur says:

          Yay! He was saying Hecate. I thought it might be a German word I just couldn't recognize, and vocab is one of my favorite things so it upset me a little.

          • misterbernie says:

            My first hearing was "Ihr Götter", in which case it would've been "You gods, call yourselves" , which is why I lolled for years.

            Now, as for why I would mishear "Hecate" as "Ihr Götter", you could make some phonology observations (namely, how ruthlessly r-vocalising German can be and that my dialect's lenis velar plosive is barely voiced if at all; and also that I don't expect Anglophones to do the rounded front mid vowel; and probably also that /h/ really does not have much phonetic distinctiveness), but alas, no vocabulary insights.

  56. caia says:

    There's a (at least one) song called "We Love You Tipper Gore" by Furnaceface, in which they thank her for marking all the good music for them.

    This comment isn't really spoilery, but because it hints at a character's future arc, I hereby rot13.

    Naq vg fbeg bs nafjref nyy (l)bhe dhrfgvbaf nobhg jurgure Wblpr pna orpbzr n cneg bs gur Fpbbovr tebhc: Abcr. Nf zhpu nf gurl jrer nssrpgrq ol gur qrzbaf, V pna'g frr Ohssl abg univat erfvqhny Zbz + Fynlvat = OHEA GUR JVGPU! genhzn.

    Juvpu vf fnq va n jnl, orpnhfr V srry yvxr Wblpr zvtug unir unq gur pncnpvgl gb wbva gur tebhc naq uryc. Ohssl zvtug unir orarsvgrq ol univat Wblpr va ure pbeare va gur shgher.

    Ba gur bgure unaq, creuncf Ohssl arrqrq n snzvyl yvsr frcnengr sebz fynlvat, naq npghnyyl cersreerq ure zbz boyvivbhf. Ps., "Lbh qvrq?"

  57. t09yavosaur says:

    -I kinda want Joyce to be on the sidelines commentating for all future slayings.
    – πŸ™ I feel like I have seen that symbol before.
    -I love how the camera had to focus on Amy to say, “hey, this is her.”
    -The Mayor is getting involved? Now I am concerned.
    -Is Willow's mom a Professor of something?
    -Ohhhh Joyce, I don't think that's a good idea. It can be dangerous to destroy the bliss that is ignorance.
    -Hmmm, what are y'all up to. I thought Willow would be smarter than to perform her witchly rituals right after Joyce set off a witch-hunt.
    -Buffy, I love your ability to make “tough” guys back off with just your presence.
    -I get the impression that this is Cordelia's way of expressing her concern these days.
    -Heh, a kid had garlic in his locker.
    -So…who's protection spell failed?
    -Not the Library!!! There are weapons there!!
    -Cause that wasn't patronizing Mrs. Willow's Mom.
    -That's ok Willow, we don't know anyone named Bunny Summers.
    -Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. They probably took Harry Potter as well.
    -Oh Joy, Undead, Non-Vampire, disembodied children.
    -“No fruit for Buffy” makes me laugh and I don't really know why. It is more depressing than funny.
    -This would be a perfect moment for someone who got to remember I Wish to come tell Buffy that she matters.
    -Ah, the beauty of adults who don't understand computers. (I mean Willow's mom here, not Giles.)
    -Hans and Greta are on a witch crusade. Those kids can really hold a grudge.
    -And they carry chloroform around. Ok?
    -I am a bad person. Since I know Buffy and them were probably going to be okay my first thought was for the books getting burned.
    -Cordy to the rescue!!!!
    -Oh, rats. Does Amy not know the elements spell? Get some water?
    -My German is very rusty but was Giles' spell invoking Hecate?
    -All those beautiful old books :'(
    -Poor Amy, are they sure they have the right rat?

    That demon really had a lot of influence power. It even had Buffy under its sway in the beginning. If it weren't for her job requiring secrecy and the demon requiring a mob, we might have had a slayer rampage against Willow, Amy and Michael.
    Also, what happens after the "witches" are burned. Does the town move on thinking they did the right thing? Or do they realize that they just murdered there children and give the demon a little more chaos and pain to feed off of.

    • notemily says:

      -Poor Amy, are they sure they have the right rat?

      That was my thought too! What if they just grabbed a random rat that happened to be around? Heh.

  58. hamnoo says:

    Incidentally, what you say your music meant for you growing up, Buffy meant for me. I was bullied around the age of 11/12, and I had two horrible years during which I had no friends at all. No one. And Buffy helped me through that.

    And my mother also prohibited me around 14 (when it wasn't that bad anymore, but still not really good) to watch any new episodes and at first also tried to forbid me watching any Buffy/Angel ever again, though for different reasons. My mother is a good person, but she didn't … she saw me watching Angel, and she caught a 10 second part that was pretty heavy.
    ('Ovyyl', va juvpu Thaa lryyf ng Serq gb onfu uvf urnq va)
    She didn't listen to me explain the context or ever understood the positive aspects of the shows, for a young girl especially, especially Buffy. I also simply could not explain to her why it was so important to me, personally. But luckily, after a few days she relented and we compromised on that I couldn't watch Angel until I was 16, and no new Buffy episodes until I turned 16. I got to keep the episodes I already had on video, which were of season 5, 6, 2, and half of 3.

    • Noybusiness says:

      Well-meaning, but really, parents: watching violence isn't going to make a person who is above the age of 10 and has no pre-existing violent inclinations get violent.

      • hamnoo says:

        I'm still not sure what exactly made her decide not to let me watch anymore. I think it was too scary/violent for my age, stat. And like I said, she didn't listen to me explain what that particular episode was about or what the shows were about, or that I *understood* the use of violence in that particular scene and was well equipped to cope with it.
        I think it is important for parents to moderately supervise what kinds of culture their children are consuming, but also, to make sure that their children deal with it in the right way. Therefore I also think that violence in general should not be excused per se, and it would have been the wrong arguement of mini-me to say "oh, it's only violence, what's the big?" Because I understood that it was very wrong. But I also comprehended its place in the episode.
        And really, my ability to second-guess pop culture mostly came from Buffy. But my mother doesn't look at culture in a … deepened sort of way.
        Once I explained to my aunt why I liked Buffy, and my mother piped in "It's a show about a girl in a mini-skirt killing vampires", implying: That's it, there's nothing more to the story. But she didn't even understand the importance of the first level, exactly that it was about a girly girl who fought and defeated monsters.


        On another note, bs pbhefr V arire gbyq ure gung Fcvxr nyzbfg encrf Ohssl va frnfba 6.

      • notemily says:

        I read an interesting article recently about whether video-game violence makes kids violent, and it came to the conclusion that it doesn't, but what DOES is being exposed to real-life actual violence.

        • Noybusiness says:

          Well yeah, witnessing or experiencing that could mess you up at any age, whereas most kids can tell fiction from reality.

          • notemily says:

            Yeah. It just frustrates me when people are like "FICTION ABOUT VIOLENCE IS BAD" and I'm like "look we have kids who are actually being abused, can we get upset about that instead?"

  59. Seventh_Star says:

    just because i haven't seen it yet, and it makes me smile:

    "a doodle. i do doodle. you, too. you do doodle, too."

  60. Bill says:

    This review here pretty much sums up all those things and I find is quite therapeutic when people like that end up being too much trouble. A few things considered slurs on this site aside (such as the C-word, no the other one) its a great video dealing with ignorant people who hate more modern music. The reviewer is Brad Jones AKA The Cinema Snob (though its just Brad in this review).
    http://thecinemasnob.com/2011/06/06/dvd-r-hell-ro

    • misterbernie says:

      Oh, that vid <3 I may nurse a little internet crush for Brad Jones, tbqh. He and Oancitizen are among the few TGWTG reviewers I still watch (Linkara I would watch more, but me and comics are unmixy things).

  61. Noybusiness says:

    I took an Anthropology class "Magic, Witchcraft and Sorcery" in undergraduate college; it was about superstitions, people's bodies shutting down when they believe they're cursed, persecution of suspected witches, overlapping with anti-Semitism and blood libel, etc. I loaned my professor this episode. It reminded me of the modern (as in late 20th century) witch hunts we had talked about in class; I remember one in particular where fears of Satanic activity led to several people's lives being ruined – I'm not clear on the details anymore, but I think it involved prison time and betrayals by friends and relatives.

  62. MsPrufrock says:

    <img src="http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h362/MsPrufrock/Gifs/GothBlakeSennett.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Photobucket">

    Why, hello there, Blake Swendson AKA Blake Sennett, formerly of the amazing amazing indie rock band Rilo Kiley. Don't think I didn't see you there, being all goth and witch-y. (Fun Fact: Blake Sennett also had acting roles on Salute Your Shorts and Boy Meets World.)

  63. pica_scribit says:

    Mark, my experience wasn't as extreme as yours, but this episode really struck a chord with me, too.

    My parents confiscated some of my music when I was in high school. There were albums I had to buy more than once, and there were albums that I knew they must never find, so I kept them in my locker at school. Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Beck, Bush, Smashing Pumpkins (anything with swearing, sex, or violence).

    I was a good kid, by most parents' definition. I was a good student (most of the time). I wasn't doing drugs or drinking or smoking or having sex. But if you listen to my mother tell it, it was a very narrow thing that I didn't wind of dead in a ditch from a botched abortion or STD or something.

    When I was 16, I was grounded for two weeks after my parents saw me kissing my boyfriend, and made me read a book on teen abstinence (my parents thought I should stop one step before what the book advocated). Their rationale was, "If that's what you do in public, what must you be doing in private?" For context, this was a long distance relationship. I saw this guy maybe once every two months, and *never* were we unsupervised. There was no "private".

    I quickly realised that I could never safely confide anything to my parents. Everything I did would result in judgement and cracking down on whatever small freedoms remained to me. I had to sneak everything I wanted, and I got good at it.

    My refuge, and the place I felt loved and accepted during this time was actually my (Episcopal) church camp, which met three weekends a year and a week in the summer. I looked forward to them like someone dying of thirst in the desert. That was where my friends were. That was where I was wholly accepted and not judged. But my parents were even suspicious of them and what went on there. They would hold my attendance over my head until the last possible minute, and make it conditional on all kinds of things. It got to the point where I couldn't even completely enjoy the camps that I loved because I started suffering horrible anxiety attacks over them. And whenever I got sick, of course the first question my parents asked was whether I was pregnant.

    My mother still credits me with her becoming a born-again Christian when I was 17, because of how afraid for me she was. That will never stop making me angry, so I mostly try not to think about it. I'm 33 now, and my relationship with my parents is still very rocky. I still don't tell them personal things, because it has never felt "safe" to do so. Both I and they have made efforts from time to time to reach out and try to repair things, but it's hard when the foundation of trust is just not there.

    • notemily says:

      UGH, that's so awful. Reading this makes me so angry, especially the born-again Christian thing. Way to blame your own issues on your kids and not take responsibility for your own choices.

      I sympathize so hard with the part about not being able to tell your parents things. It really does just make you better at hiding. I also have long-lasting issues with my parents, though probably not as bad as yours, and mostly for different reasons. But like, they take me to family therapy and ask why I never confide in them about my life, and I'm like BECAUSE YOU NEVER LET ME FEEL SAFE DOING SO. My parents also contributed greatly to my anxiety attacks. *hugs*

      • pica_scribit says:

        Cheers. Yeah, it's frustrating, isn't it? I get so jealous of my friends who have good relationships with their parents. Fortunately I rarely have anxiety attacks anymore. I think it's about 1.5 years since my last one.

  64. GamgeeFest says:

    Reading about your childhood really makes me appreciate mine. I gave my mom grief for being so strict, but she pales in comparison to yours. Oh Mark, my heart breaks for you. If I could go back in time and give you a happier childhood, I would.

    Back to Gingerbread – mob mentality. It can be found anywhere and is always destructive in the end, no matter how good the intentions were to begin with. This show demonstrates that perfectly.

    Favorite quotes:
    "I doodle. You doodle. You do doodle too."
    "I like the two little ones instead of the one big one."
    "Oh, and MOO? Nice acronym, Mom."
    "Did I get it? Did I get it?"
    "Wake up in a coma" – oh, Cordy. πŸ™‚

  65. hpfish13 says:

    I actually just watched Syzygy, so about halfway through season 3. As far as favorite episode goes, hmmmmmmm…….I really liked Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose, I also remember liking the one with the frozen parasites (Ice is its name I think?)

    I got really frustrated at the episodes where Scully was gone. I really missed her presence. Also, it's been fun seeing lots of guest stars who are now bigger names or whom I recognize from other things (Seth Green, Jack Black, Jewel Staite–Oubliette was intense, Mark Sheppard, etc.)

    It's amazing how quickly I came to hate the cigarette smoking guy, I have the urge to put my fist through my computer screen when ever he appears!

    • "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose" is a classic, and "Ice" is a great season one episode. And, right, the guest stars! I do remember Jewel Staite and Jack Black and Mark Sheppard. And then there's Bryan Cranston, who was in an episode called "Drive," which ended up in his getting Breaking Bad, which ended up in his being in Drive.

      Ha, I love CSM so much! He's great. I mean, awful, but great.

    • enigmaticagentscully says:

      So I was all like 'Hey, when was Seth Green in the X Files?' so I dutifully looked him up and…

      OH MY GOD OZ IS THE STONED KID FROM 'DEEP THROAT'????

      WHAT.

      WHAT.

      YOU HAVE OFFICIALLY BLOWN MY MIND.

      THIS IS THE BEST THING I HAVE HEARD ALL YEAR.

      • knut_knut says:

        YES!! YES HE IS! I just started watching the X Files in order, from the beginning, and it was SO EXCITING TO SEE HIM!!

    • myeck says:

      I love the four episodes Darin Morgan wrote; “Humbug”, “Clyde Bruckman’s Final Repose”, “Jose Chung’s From Outer Space” and “War of the Coprophages”. He moved over to the show “Milennium”, where he wrote two episodes; “Jose Chung’s ‘Doomsday Defense'” and “Somehow Satan Got Behind Me”, which hook up very nicely with Clyde Bruckman and the first Jose Chung Episodes to make a perfect storm of meta.

  66. VoldieBeth says:

    I still call my parents out on stupid parenting they did when I was young. The best was my form of punishment! I was extremely introverted when I was younger and was perfectly happy reading and not socially interacting with my peers. So to punish me they would ground me, but I didn't care because I never left the house anyways. Then I was grounded to my room, again laughed and didn't care, I just read the whole time. So they took away my books. 2 teachers punished their daughter by taking away books she was reading for fun, LOL! I still make fun of my mom for that one!

    • @aagblog says:

      Are you my sibling? Because I was "grounded" from books as well.

      Never really worked. It's pretty easy to hide books. πŸ™‚

    • GamgeeFest says:

      My mom was a big fan of line writing. "I will not call my brother stupid" 50 times, that sort of thing. It didn't really work.

    • robin_comments says:

      LOL I was grounded from books too! My mom would gather them all up and put them on top of the fridge. Reading all the time wasn't NORMAL.

  67. canyonoflight says:

    I watched horror movies with my dad when I was 5, so yeah. I was banned from The Real World the first season, but I found a way to watch it anyway.

    I went to see Money Train with my parents. It was the most horrifying two hours of my life.

  68. 00guera00 says:

    One of the things I remember being 'off limits' while growing up was the show 'Married With Children.' I only remember because it used to come on right after something I watched a lot and I'd always rush to change the channel before my mom heard the theme song.

    I could read whatever I wanted though. I remember when I was 14 or so my mom gave me a book based on a famous murder (I think it was called Blood and Money or something, s'been awhile) and when I devoured that, she gave me this book about a group of girls who kidnapped this other girl and beat her up (among other things, graphic other things) and then set her on fire all because the other girl slept with the lead girl's girlfriend. I went through a sort of 'real crime' phase and was pissed most of the books where in the over 18 sections in the bookstore.

    My mom wasn't perfect, not by a long shot as much as I love her, but she never thought I was evil just because of things I watched or read.

  69. Binx says:

    Ha. I can so relate to that last part about the hypocrisy of what's acceptable and what's not in strict households. I remember getting into a fight with my dad because, at 13, it was absolutely OUT OF THE QUESTION for me to watch ANY rated R film, end of discussion… except that he had me watching Braveheart, all the Lethal Weapon films, and various other ultra-violent Rs with him since I was FIVE. But those were his favorite movies, so it was different. Yet I still remember being traumatized as a small child sitting there watching these hardcore sex scenes and people being tortured and having their throat slit. His response was, "well good. Now that you've brought that to my attention, you won't be watching those either." Like he seriously *just* noticed the content of his most-quoted and rewatched faves.

    I also totally relate on the "Satanic" front. I was the black sheep of the family for reading Harry Potter, having a Nightmare Before Christmas blanket, watching Lord of the Rings, and whatever else. Literally shamed in a "take your 'The Brothers Grimm' PG-13 DVD and back away from your innocent cousins who will not be influenced by you" sort of way.

    So yeah…

    • GamgeeFest says:

      Haha. My parents never let us watch anything with sex or foul language, especially the f-word, but we could watch all the violence we wanted. We could watch scary movies when we were as young as 5 and 7 – alone. But a perfectly wholesome movie with one sex scene in it – nope, couldn't watch that. I still don't understand that one.

  70. kelseyofcake says:

    For me, the things that helped me feel better about everything and gave me a place to vent my anger were books, TV shows, and music. As far as music goes, there wasn't really a whole lot because I was so musically sheltered that most of the stuff I listened to was instrumental, or it was bands like "Nightwish" and other power metal. But really I got the most help from Harry Potter and the Buffyverse. Harry Potter was a great good vs. evil story that was actually more morally gray than other "children's" series and it had characters I could identify with. Luna in particular reminded me of the years of bullying I had faced and the habit of people who knew me to write me off as "crazy" (their words, not mine). Harry's life with the Dursleys also made me feel a little better about my home life, and I could empathize with his situation. The universe of Buffy was similar, but tackled many more issues that I could identify with and derive comfort from. I can't say much else because of spoilers, but the scene in this episode with Angel explaining to Buffy about why they fight is a good example of something I found comforting and positive in this universe.

    So, my list for today:
    -Joyce you perfect human being, wanting to bond with Buffy over her slaying and bringing her snacks.
    -”Oh my god, it's Mr. Sanderson from the bank!”
    -Nooo, Joyce, you shouldn't have been the one to find that. Look, I do not like seeing her cry, okay? It upsets me.
    -That line about finding a loophole in the “slayers don't kill people” rule: I've had days like that too, Buffy. I sometimes wish I could have you in the real world to beat the snot out of certain disgusting people.
    -Xander, you're trying too hard and you should just chill, okay?
    -I'm pretty sure she didn't mean you, Willow.
    -Oh boy, Joyce, you really don't get the whole secrecy thing, do you?
    -”Rumor, about us???” This is making me ship them more and more.
    -Ah yes, all those studies from the 90's blaming everything on teenagers being interested in evil satanic things like books and music and games. And this episode aired before it was cool for parents to say that Harry Potter was satanic and burn the books. The first thing I thought of when I saw this episode was all the Harry Potter bonfires that churches liked to do, and the special sermon they did at my church warning parents about the evils of Harry Potter.
    -And then Joyce Summers made the Hellmouth public knowledge. (or not, but we came close.)
    -Amy, why do you have a skull with burning stuff in it? And why is Willow here?
    -Everyone knows goth kids are into witchcraft! EVERYONE!
    -Does anyone have a transcript of Willow's “do doodle” thing? Also, notebook pages used to come in pink?
    -In a school like Sunnydale, they're going to be taking a lot of kids I imagine.
    -No, not the books! We have now jumped to the parallel of parents wanting to have books taken out of schools.
    -Snyder, you KNOW about the Hellmouth! You know why Giles has these books! Do you want the school to be overrun by demons and supernatural shit because Giles couldn't access his books?
    -Willow's mom is really condescending and irritating. I don't like her.
    -”And I can summon the four elements!” Willow's the Avatar!
    -What happened to you, Joyce? You used to be so awesome, please be awesome again.
    -Eugh, creepy kids.
    -I love Giles yelling at the computer and calling it a “Stupid, useless fad”. It's a beautiful moment.
    -Aha, so Willow's mom isn't smart enough to take away the computer. Convenient, but I'm not all that surprised.
    -Hansel and Grettel! I love fairytale connections. They are another huge thing for me that I like to geek-out about.
    -Uummm, hello creepy! I will forever find it strange that Mrs. Rosenberg smiles and tells Willow to get a coat because of the weather right after basically spelling out “we are going to murder you.”
    -The whole thing about parents coming after their children thing still creeps me out because it seems I can never go very long without hearing a story about it actually happening.
    -”How many times have you been knocked out anyway? I swear, one of these times you're gonna wake up in a coma.”
    -Oz, I do love it when you get sassy.
    -Is it wrong that my first thought when they lit the fire was “NOT THE BOOKS!”? A lot of those are really old and probably really rare! How dare they!
    -”We're here to save you” I love you Oz.
    -Couldn't they take Amy to the magic shop and ask if anyone there can change her back, or if they know anyone who could? Surely there's someone in Sunnydale with more advanced magical abilities than Willow.

  71. Gorimek says:

    "Heavy-handed" is right. The moral of this story is one big "censorship is bad, mkay". Which I agree with, but I was hoping for an exciting story, not a preachy morality lecture.

    Also, a witch burning INDOORS??? The smoke alone would kill everyone, except possibly any witches.

    Some fun and interesting side scenes, but overall the worst ep of the season in my book.

  72. MrsGillianO says:

    I was a parent while Buffy was on. We sat down as a family to watch it on the BBC (it was cut a bit for violence as it was just before 7pm) and a friend of one of my daughters usually came round to watch it with us.

    When it started, my girls were 8 and 11, so by this episode they would have been nearly 10 and 14, I think. We used to talk a lot about the issues raised – after this episode we discussed why a friend of one of my girls was not allowed to read Harry Potter, even though he watched horror films with his friends, and how parents can get very worked up about stuff they don't understand but which scares them.

    We used to do that a lot with this show. We bought the DVDs as soon as they came out, too, which was actually earlier here than in the US. So many opportunities to talk about "stuff" with my lovely kids; it's possibly a reason I still love the show so much.

    Natry jnf qvssrerag – nabgure punaary obhtug vg naq chg vg ba ng fhpu na rneyl ubhe gurl unq gb pubc vg gb cvrprf. 5cz, jbhyq lbh oryvrir? Fghcvq, fghcvq P4.

    Anyway, I can really sympathise with so many of you who were banned from stuff; for me, though, it was all about how fallible parents are and how they can do the stupidest things out of a sense of love. Something I really wanted my kids to understand.

  73. Katherine says:

    "To this day, I like to tease my mother about the fact that she made exceptions to this rule for two things: The X-Files and The Silence of the Lambs. "
    One of my friends has recently informed me that her mother does not allow her to watch It's A Wonderful Life, because apparently it's inappropriate. Another friend looked at her in shock and started to explain how she watches R-rated movies with full-frontal nudity with her mother.
    Parents can definitely have weird ideas of what's appropriate. Luckily, I dont usually have this problem with mine.

  74. Andie says:

    Stuff like this is the reason I'm glad my mom never gave a shit what music I listened to or what I watched on TV. She gave zero fucks.

  75. notemily says:

    Gingerbread: I've never liked this one, honestly. It's way too anvilicious and literal. (IT'S A WITCH HUNT! FOR WITCHES! GET IT??)

    I like what you bring to it, Mark–the stuff about "satanic" music–but since I never had that experience, it doesn't mean as much to me. I was all about getting outraged about censorship, but my parents personally never limited what I could watch, read, or listen to. Sometimes they frowned on it, but they never tried to stop me. I think they knew that would just make me rebel. (Ani DiFranco and Tori Amos were the ones who totally ~knew my pain~ when I was a young teen.) I can't even imagine my parents throwing away ALL OF MY MUSIC. I would have flown into a rage.

    The one thing that really gets to me in this episode is Buffy's comment: "Maybe next time the world is getting sucked into Hell, I won't be able to stop it because the Anti-Hell-Sucking Book isn't on the approved reading list!" I work in a library so I've had my share of brushes with the kind of people who think books about sex, abuse, rape, suicide, self-injury, being gay, being trans, etc. don't belong in the library–especially not in the Young Adult or (gasp) Children's sections. And this is exactly why I can never, ever agree with them: because censoring those things doesn't make them go away. Children and teenagers still have to deal with these things, and getting rid of the books about them is just going to make them feel more isolated and alone.

    Other than that, though, this episode is a low point for me in season 3. I hate when Joyce is mean to Buffy. I hate seeing that Willow's mom barely even realizes she has a daughter. (Although her rant to her mom about "Prince of Night, I summon you! Come fill me with your black, naughty evil!" was kind of hilarious.) And I hate Buffy thinking she doesn't make a difference in Sunnydale, when we saw just a couple of episodes ago that this isn't true.

    The most fun part of this ep for me is Cordelia. I like that even though she's not a full-fledged member of the Scooby Gang anymore, she still gets to help out in this episode, and without having to deal with Xander. Also, Cordy and Giles need to have more scenes together.

    Snyder: "I love the smell of desperate librarian in the morning." [Guvf vf jnl shaavre gb zr orpnhfr bs Erfgyrff]

    • RoseFyre says:

      "The one thing that really gets to me in this episode is Buffy's comment: "Maybe next time the world is getting sucked into Hell, I won't be able to stop it because the Anti-Hell-Sucking Book isn't on the approved reading list!" I work in a library so I've had my share of brushes with the kind of people who think books about sex, abuse, rape, suicide, self-injury, being gay, being trans, etc. don't belong in the library–especially not in the Young Adult or (gasp) Children's sections. And this is exactly why I can never, ever agree with them: because censoring those things doesn't make them go away. Children and teenagers still have to deal with these things, and getting rid of the books about them is just going to make them feel more isolated and alone."

      YES. THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

      Librarian solidarity. πŸ˜€

  76. Danny_SAP says:

    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgs4xY92g1qz5stv.png&quot; />

    GILES There you are. I almost didn't find you in this crush. Oh, uh, Mrs., uh… uh, Joyce. Quite a turnout you have here. JOYCE Oh, well, it's, it's not just me, but thank you. Well, it's, uh, it's been a while. GILES Right. Not since, um… Not since… Not for a while. SHEILA There's a rumor going around, Mr. Giles. GILES R-rumor, about us?

    Poker is definitely not Giles' game.
    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgs6bL9dN1qz5stv.png&quot; />

    BUFFY Those her books? XANDER Yeah. She's in the bathroom. But the fact that I know that doesn't change that I have a genuine complaint here. Look. I'm getting sick of the judgment, the innuendoes. Is a man not innocent until proven guilty? BUFFY You are guilty. You got illicit smoochies, gonna have to pay the price.

    Daily dose of Xander being wrong. Also I really like Buffy's hairstyle in this episode.
    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgs6svWM81qz5stv.png&quot; />

    GILES Session interrupted? Who said you could interrupt, you stupid, useless fad! No, I said fad. And I'll say it again.

    Giles is probably somebody who would complain about not being able to smell an e-reader.
    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgshoKP8e1qz5stv.png&quot; />

    CORDELIA Took you long enough to wake up. My hand hurts. GILES Pity. Oh… Why are you here? CORDELIA Things are way out of control, Giles. First the thing at school, and then my mom confiscates all of my black clothes and scented candles. I came over here to tell Buffy to stop this craziness and found you all unconscious… again. How many times have you been knocked out, anyway? I swear, one of these times, you're gonna wake up in a coma. GILES Wake up in a… Oh, never mind. We need to save Buffy from Hansel and Gretel. CORDELIA Now, let's be clear. The brain damage happened before I hit you.

    Oh Cordelia, never change.
    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgs7pjyM91qz5stv.png&quot; />

    CORDELIA God, you really were the little youthful offender, weren't you? You must just look back on that and cringe.

    I would watch a miniseries about Giles and Cordelia.
    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgs89SYX01qz5stv.png&quot; />

    BUFFY Did I get it? Did I get it?

    SMG nails the delivery here.
    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgs8n6BL41qz5stv.png&quot; />

    OZ We're here to save you.

    So does Seth Green.
    <img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgs91hljI1qz5stv.png&quot; />
    SO CUTE.

    Again I'm late to the party as Wednesday is Test Day for me.
    I find this episode to be extremely boring for some unknown reason. At least we get to meet Willow's mom, finally. And the Goth bullying was pretty topical around this time, Columbine having happened earlier that year.
    Transcripts via BvA

  77. threerings13 says:

    This is one of, if not THE, scariest episodes of Buffy to me. Because I find the idea of all your loved ones turning irrationally against you to be terrifying. Also probably because I was studying Wicca from the age of 12, so this was totally a legitimate fear for me for a long time. (The messed up thing is that it didn't stop being a legitimate fear until I became an atheist and stopped practicing a few years ago. Even as an adult, I had to be in the closet about my religion due to the nature of my job and the fear of being discriminated against.)

    So, yeah, that's pretty much it. This episode is terrifying.

  78. quenstalof says:

    What? That symbol! Willow and Amy what is going on?
    Oh shit all of Giles' books! Joyce, you really should have thought this through a little more.
    If this is how WIllow's parents are, and if Xander truly sleeps outside on Christmas eve to escape drunken fights, it's no wonder they became so close throughout their childhoods.

    All those booooks! Noooooo! I wish they would've given me a "No books were harmed in the making of this episode" or something, but I doubt that's true. D-:

    Yay Cordy to the rescue! I'm so glad she's still around to help stage rescues.
    Xander and Oz's rescue is so well timed.
    Amy got stuck as a rat! Lol.

    I can't really relate because my parents were not really going to keep me from reading, which was my refuge from the world. There were some shows I wasn't allowed to watch, but I always thought it was more because I had a younger brother and sister who would be watching with me. However, my HS boyfriend grew up in a really strict Catholic household. I got him a CD with a Parental Advisory sticker for his 18th birthday, and I'm sure he would have had to return it if he showed it to his parents. Even to this day, 8 years later, he has to be careful what he watches when he's at home. (No Robot Chicken f'rex)

  79. man I love my parents. They never censored my books, I grew up listening to all their music, and they told me all their drug stories. (Resulting in me never wanting to touch drugs. So A+ there, parents)

    But I can still understand the whole TV/movie/book/internet trope of finding that one special thing/place where everyone understands you

  80. WhiteEyedCat says:

    – Ugh, when Joyce makes that speech and says that they need to take Sunnydale back from "The monsters and the slayers" just…ugh, I hate that she lumps Buffy in with the things that she's fighting. I know that she's under a spell, but Joyce's actions really upset me in this episode.
    – People seem to be taking Xander's "Playboys! Can we turn the sympathy this way?" comment really seriously, I took it as him making a joke (albeit an inappropriate one), and trying to take Willow's mind off something that she couldn't do anything about.
    – Cordelia and Giles should be in a buddy-cop movie where they fight evil and go shopping.
    – This episode really stands out in my mind when I think of Buffy, since it's one of the first Buffy books that I read before watching the series. I think that it's a pretty good introduction to the world that BtVS takes place in.
    – I remember Faith being in season 3 a lot more, I guess her character really stands out and it just seems like she's always there.
    – I know that she's barely a background character, but I really like Amy. She's very morally grey with her cheating on homework and leaving Buffy and Willow behind, which I find really interesting in a show where most of the characters are absolutely good or evil.

    • _Bailey_ says:

      "Cordelia and Giles should be in a buddy-cop movie where they fight evil and go shopping."

      This would be the best thing EVER.

  81. John says:

    "One of these times, you're going to wake up in a coma," said Cordelia to Giles.

    Xvaq bs njrfbzr sberfunqbjvat, fvapr gung'f rknpgyl jung unccraf gb Pbeqryvn va frnfba svir bs Natry.

  82. Tell me about it. Thankfully, I didn't stop believing in the tooth fairy until she left a note under my brother's pillow that said she owed him 50 cents.

    The note was in my mum's handwriting -_-

    • notemily says:

      Hee, I discovered my Christmas wish list sticking out of my grandfather's bag when I was a kid. I pretty much already knew Santa was a myth, but for a second I was like "OMG MY GRANDPA IS SANTA."

  83. g_aurelia says:

    I love Alyson Hannigan speaking Jane Espenson's words.

    "What is that?"
    "A doodle. I do doodle. You do doodle too!"

  84. RoseFyre says:

    Random quick comment: Mr. Sanderson from the bank also died, so that adds one more to the death count.

  85. RoseFyre says:

    Qnvyl Qnja Guernq!

    Fb, jurer jnf Qnja qhevat nyy bs guvf? Gur jnl V frr vg, gurer ner sbhe bcgvbaf.

    1. Fur jnf pnhtug hc va gur jvgpuuhag naq wbvarq ure zbgure va oheavat Ohssl ng gur fgnxr. (Hayvxryl, nf jr frr ab bgure puvyqera qhevat nal bs gubfr fprarf – vg frrzf gb or bayl nssrpgvat gur nqhygf.)
    2. Fur jnf bar bs gur "jvgpurf" naq jnf ohearq ng gur fgnxr jvgu Ohssl, Jvyybj, naq Nzl.
    3. Fur jnf abg pnhtug hc va gur jvgpuuhag, ohg abg ohearq ng gur fgnxr – cbffvoyl rvgure urycvat Tvyrf naq Pbeqryvn be Knaqre naq Bm. Znlor fur jnf nyfb xabpxrq bhg? Znlor fur jnf gelvat gb jnxr Tvyrf hc jura Pbeqryvn pnzr va? Be znlor fur raqrq hc urycvat bhg ng gur yvoenel naq sbyybjvat Bm naq Knaqre gb tb svaq Jvyybj?
    4. Fur jnfa'g vaibyirq ng nyy.

    V guvax 3 vf gur zbfg yvxryl, gubhtu ernyyl vg'f n znggre bs bcvavba. Nalbar ryfr unir bcvavbaf? Be bgure bcgvbaf?

    (Ab znggre jung ryfr unccrarq, Wblpr nofbyhgryl ersreraprq Qnja jura gnyxvat nobhg ubj ubeevoyr vg jnf gung xvqf pybfr gb ure ntr unq orra zheqrerq. Qnja fubg onpx n fnepnfgvp pbzzrag nobhg gurz orvat, yvxr, jnl lbhatre guna ure, orpnhfr fur jnf nyernql 12 naq gurl jrer pyrneyl whfg yvggyr xvqf jub jrer haqre 10.)

    • V'z cerggl fher gung vg vf gur guveq bcgvba, nygubhtu V nz abg fher jrgure fur jbhyq unir tbggra vaibyirq va urycvat. V guvax fur jbhyq unir orra greevsvrq jvgu jung jnf tbvat ba. V zrna, ure zbgure gevrq gb xvyy ure fvfgre, jub arire qvq nalguvat onq gb gur crbcyr bs gur gbja ohg evfxrq ure yvsr sbe gurz bire naq bire ntnva.
      V guvax fur jbhyq unir orra ba Ohsslf fvqr naq jbhyq unir gevrq gb uryc ure, ohg Wblpr jbhyq unir znlor ybpxrq ure va ure ebbz be fbzrguvat gb xrrc ure sebz ohsslf 'onq' vasyhrapr. Ohg fur vf gbb lbhat gb or fhowrpg bs gur jvgpuuhag urefrys.

      V guvax vg jbhyq gnxr n ybat gvzr rkcynvavat gb ure jung unccrarq naq gb erfgber ure gehfg. V zrna, n zbgure vf fhccbfrq gb gnxr pner bs n qnhtugre abg fgneg n jvgpuuhag ntnvafg ure.

      Ol gur jnl – V ybir gur Qnja guernq! Fur vf fhpu na vagrerfgvat punenpgre naq V qvqa'g yvxrq vg gbb zhpu jura nyy bs gur grrantref va gur fubj jurer bayl puvyqera (gungf znlor orpnhfr V yvxr zl fvoyvatf n terng qrny..) vg whfg nqqrq fb zhpu zber qrcgu gb gur eryngvbaf va gur fubj…

  86. Scottish Eddie says:

    This is an episode I normally avoid watching becasue it is so rage inducing. But it really does raise some good points about censorship that I don't think I've seen elsewhere.

    Good times.

  87. Maribeth says:

    Oh I loved Amy the rat….

  88. Fiana says:

    Yeah, so that thing (music/t.v./whatever) that I felt was "mine" and had the kind of connection you did with your music? Yeah, it was totally Buffy for me.

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