Mark Watches ‘Buffy The Vampire Slayer’: S02E17 – Passion

In the seventeenth episode of the second season of Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Jenny is forced to come up with a way to bring back Angel’s soul when he starts tormenting Buffy’s friends and family. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Buffy.

Well, I suppose it was time for Joss Whedon to show me just how much he doesn’t care about my love for a character. It was about time that he showed me what my experience watching Buffy was going to be like.

Truthfully, “Passion” is about making the threat of Angelus very real. This is not him going through an uncomfortable phase or being unfortunate and irritating. He has lost his humanity, and he has nothing to stop him from being a horrific force for evil. When we’re reminded of how awful he was as Angelus long ago early in the episode, it doesn’t seem real. It’s a distant memory, an ancient history, and it only felt like an empty threat that would never actualize itself in the narrative.

Well, Joss Whedon’s here to make it a reality.

I’ve made a good run of not bringing up Twilight in these posts, so allow me this small concession: I am ecstatic that this episode shows you just how awful, invasive, and creepy it is for a guy to break into your house and watch you fall asleep. I will seriously never get over what a horrifying thing it is to know that someone thinks that this is romantic or sweet. As someone who was a victim of this very act (TWICE!!!!), I fucking hate that it’s a thing that exists in the world and is romanticized. It’s why I enjoyed “Passion” so much in the end: the writers go out of their way to have the script constantly criticize Angelus and present his actions in a poor light. There’s no ambiguity here at all. Angelus crossed the line, and he’s an asshole for doing it.

I suppose “asshole” is a bit of an understatement. A “severely gross individual who I instantly dislike and hate and dearly wish would get staked” is probably more like it. His actions in this episode are so terrifying because he knows how to make them so terribly personal. I’m sure he did what he did specifically because he knew that it would affect everyone. I’m sure he knew that Jenny would feel guilty about her past and seek out some way to “save” him. I’m sure he knew that Buffy would reach out to Willow and Giles. I’m sure he knew that she’d seek out her mother. He knew all of this, and he used it against her.

It’s what makes so many of the small details so horrible to me. The jokes from Xander and Cordelia are, in hindsight, extremely depressing. That conversation between Jenny and Giles? Unbelievably heartbreaking, especially because it was so touching. They were so close to forgiving and believing in one another again. THEY WERE THIS CLOSE, WHEDON!!! And then we get that conversation where Buffy has to talk to her mother about Angelus, to possibly warn him that he may come around. I was actually impressed how believable her cover story was, considering this show has come up with some awful and unrealistic stories in the past. It’s still just so hard for me to see Buffy struggle with a desire to talk to her mother, but have to hide her identity. And I know I am GAY GAY GAY projecting all over the place, but as someone who was in the closet until he was nearly nineteen, and then awkwardly unsure of how my own mother truly felt about me being gay, I can relate to this narrative so much. At this point in the show, I’m ready to just say that I feel most attached to Buffy, as her issues with identity and heartbreak are close to my own experience.

Well, okay, no. I did not have sex with a vampire hundreds of years older than me, but I know what it’s like to be betrayed by someone you thought you loved, and to then be unable to go to your own mother when you really need her. The things that happen in Buffy are fantastical, sure. I don’t have a problem admitting that. But they’re grounded when you put them all through the lens of the teenage experience, and you see an accurate and terrifying metaphor for a break-up, especially one where one party isn’t ready to let go.

And all of these feelings I had for Buffy and for this story are then promptly stomped on and cast out of a window. When Willow found her envelope, I remembered that Angel had been invited into her house as well. Had he drawn her while she was sleeping, too? But this was about escalation, and Angelus was taking this up a notch. She pulls out her dead tropical fish, threaded together.


It’s creepy because it’s an intentional mind game on Angelus’s part. He’s starting small, and that means it’s only going to get worse. But how far could this show go? I wondered. Would Angelus just threaten violence, or would he follow through on his words? I was unsure until Willow spoke the worst lines possible: “Except you’re still the only thing he thinks about.”

It’s a brilliant, stunning commentary on power dynamics in a relationship, as well as a marked attempt by the show to continue to put Angelus’s actions in a negative place. This is about obsession, and how what was once a loving  relationship is now something dangerous and violent. And I’m glad that Buffy doesn’t treat this issue as a joke; this is a deeply serious and disturbing episode that traces Angelus’s descent into chaos.

It’s also one that manages to address the ongoing awkwardness between Jenny and Buffy. I found Buffy’s talk with her to be immensely mature. It’s really not an obligation that she forgive Jenny on the one hand, though I still don’t think she did anything personally to bring back Angelus. Jenny had no clue that pure happiness would eliminate Angel’s soul. Still, Buffy knows that her actions might be keeping Jenny from Giles, and that is not something she wants to be a part of anymore. She clearly cares about Giles so much, enough that she’ll put aside her own concerns just to see him happy.

My heart, y’all. MY HEART.

When the next envelope arrives, though, things get uncomfortable on a level that just pains me to think about. That image of Joyce drawn while sleeping is not just a sign that Angelus will invade the Summers’ privacy; it’s a threat, one that Angelus actualizes in a horrific way. When the camera cuts to Joyce pulling up to her house, Angelus on the lawn, my stomach turned. I know it’s weird to “praise” the guy for being the worst ever, but man, David Boreanaz sure is great at acting like a stalker. His harassment of Joyce is completely unsettling, a clear demonstration that he’s willing to blatantly and forcibly break any rules or laws in his pursuit to destroy those around Buffy. Also DON’T YOU FUCKING HURT MY JOYCE I SWEAR TO YOU I WILL END YOU. He doesn’t; instead, though, he tells Joyce that he and Buffy had sex. !!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE FUCK WHY ARE YOU RUINING ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING

It’s at this point that this episode’s endgame is set into place, and the writers of “Passion” put “Innocence” to shame. We watch Giles and Jenny having a late night conversation, Jenny hard at work to translate the Ritual of Restoration to make things up to Buffy and give Angel back his soul. It’s awful writing about it now, because that scene has a whole new meaning to me: it’s a goodbye. Giles thinks it’s a new beginning when he invites her over, but hindsight’s a funny thing. There’s no way he would have known.

It’s harder writing about Jenny Calendar because I liked her so much, and I love what she represented: a modern element to a fantasy genre. She represented a character who was stuck between the culture she was brought up in and the techno-pagan world she loved. She made Giles happy. She was funny. And just like that, Angel snaps her neck and she’s dead.


I just sat there in shock. Angelus really was destroying everyone around Buffy. He knew that telling Joyce that he’d had sex with her daughter would rile her up, but I think he misjudged just how much Joyce cares for her daughter. Joyce is upset, but having the truth about Buffy out in the air for once gives their relationship a sense of relief. And I’m sure Buffy was relieved in her own way, too. Y’all, I just love their relationship so much.

I was left wondering, once again, just how it was possible that someone could dream up an idea so heinous. During “Innocence,” I was shocked that Whedon could even imagine one person saying the things Angeus said to someone else. Here, though, we are taken to a whole new level of disturbing. Setting up Giles to believe that Jenny was waiting for him was bad enough. Using Puccini’s “La Boheme”? Are you TRYING to destroy all happiness in my life? Oh…right. You are. I can’t think of something so wholly evil to compare this to. Killing Jenny was unforgivable, sure. Rubbing that in Giles’s face? I suddenly understood why Giles gave no thought to heading to the factory to kill Angelus. It wasn’t so much that he wanted to get revenge. I’m sure he wanted that. He also did not care if he he died, and I think that risk was too tempting for him to ignore.

I’m just flabbergasted as to how this is going to be dealt with. We see Angelus standing outside the Summers’ home, just to witness the grief of Willow and Buffy, and I can’t bring myself to imagine how anyone is ever going to be able to forgive him. How do you redeem a character who has done something so categorically awful? I’m not even talking about forgiveness yet. I’m sure that will come and be addressed. I mean that it is going to take one hell of a feet of writing to convince me that I should ever feel good about Angel again. Is it impossible? No, of course not. But the writers crossed a very specific line with this episode, and that means they took a risk of alienating people or upsetting them. It’s a bold move, one I certainly understand, but I can’t help but just hate Angelus so much.

The final fight scene is so emotional and violent and I kind of love that it’s here. To see Giles so unrestrained is terrifying, and it’s a sign of what a good actor Anthony Stewart Head is. I was surprised at how many shots he got in before Angelus tried choking him to death. Angelus and Buffy’s fight is so raw and vicious, and you can see the history between the two as they fight. Yet the entire scene has such a somber attitude toward it. I know (and the characters know) that nothing they do can do will ever bring Jenny back. She’s gone.

“Passion” closes on this same note as we see how her death has affected the three people she was closest with. Giles’s apartment is as vacant as ever, and light is cleverly used to expose that. Buffy expresses regret that she hadn’t put aside her feelings for Angelus and killed him already. And Willow stands before her old class, stumbling through an introduction, knowing that she got what she wanted in the worst way imaginable. But there’s hope. The floppy disk with the Ritual of Restoration on it wasn’t destroyed. DUN DUN DUN.

I just wanted to comment on one last thing before the depressing GIF war begins: for a serious episode, I laughed so hard at Drusilla’s puppy. Please be in every episode ever from here on out.

Okay, back to sulking. Also, I need to point out that the universe just conspired to make me death with this and that thing that happens in the opening chapter of The Two Towers ON THE SAME FUCKING DAY. GODDAMN IT.

About Mark Oshiro

Perpetually unprepared since '09.
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430 Responses to Mark Watches ‘Buffy The Vampire Slayer’: S02E17 – Passion

  1. settlingforhistory says:

    I must have watched this episode about fifty times at least, it is one of my favorite. The strange thing is: even though I know it starts rather upbeat and positive with Buffy kind of forgiving Jenny, Giles and Jenny agreeing on a date, I forget all about it when we see Angelus in the room with Jenny. I tried to concentrate on the not upsetting parts, so here is what I liked:

    Willow obsessing about teaching and then how disappointed she is when Jenny is punctual
    (Oh, the foreshadowing and irony and sadness)

    Angel the really, really hellish ex-boyfriend. I guess that is a major point why I could never like Twighlight (besides its other bad life lessons): Watching someone sleep (who is not in a relationship with you) is unbelievable creepy and disgusting, there is just no romance involved.

    The pictures Angel draws, while unsettling and a reason to run far, far away, they are quite beautiful and show us that Angel may have some kind of hobby besides brooding.

    The magic shop owner making fun of new age people and selling rare artifacts as paperweights. There is just something so Fred and George about this, selling crystal balls to Muggles.

    Any scene with Spike and Angelus. We see how much these vamps know each other, Angelus can infuriate Spike with just a word and Spike doesn’t get why he can’t siply kill Buffy instead of playing with her. It also shows how different both men are: Spike likes to kill, Angelus likes to haunt you in your sleep. (V ybir gung Natryhf' gnhagvat vf va gur raq jung jvyy ghea Fcvxr ntnvafg uvz naq ba Ohssl'f fvqr. Vs ur unq gerngrq Fcvxr orggre, ur zvtug unir jba.)

    The dog Sunshine. Only Dru can name a dog after something that could kill her.
    It’s funny that no one kills that dog and Dru treats it like a pet.

    The Talk. Both Buffy and Joyce are so uncomfortable, but I think it was time that Joyce had some clue about her daughter’s life.

    The tragic Jenny/Giles theme, especially the part at the cemetery when ASH hums in the background. That thing alone can make me cry.

    The disk that falls behind the desk. Joss really knows how to make our brains melt.

    • settlingforhistory says:

      The sad stuff I liked:

      The whole game Angelus plays; killing Willow’s fish, watching them receive the news about Jenny, setting up that “date” in Giles’ house; he is complete psychopath, but a much better villain than any we have seen on Buffy before. (Naq zhpu orggre guna zbfg jr frr yngre)

      I love the shared sadness of the Scoobies. No matter their differences and the feeling of betrayal, when Jenny died, one of their own died. Willow’s reaction on the phone is the point that always brings tears to my eyes.

      I know some fans dislike Xander’s hatred for Angel, but here it is understandable.
      He is really upset about Jenny’s death and we get to see a more serious Xander who sounds quite bitter. V engure yvxrq uvz yngre frnfbaf jura punenpgre vf yrff nobhg wbxrf naq zber nobhg fbzrbar jub vf nsenvq gb snvy va yvsr naq orpbzr yvxr uvf snzvyl.

      The chase through the school. ‘Till the last moment I had thought Buffy would come and save Jenny. I doubt anyone can be prepared for that.
      Gubhtu V xabj nsgre guvf rcvfbqr V arire ntnva oryvirq gung gurer jbhyq or n ynfg zvahgr erfphr. Juvpu vf tbbq V thrff, pbafvqrevat gur arkg urneg oernx rcvfbqrf.

      Giles’ fight with Angelus and Buffy’s reaction to him almost dying in that fire.
      Never not painfully sad and heart breaking.

      • cait0716 says:

        The chase is just horrific. It's so long and you're so sure that Buffy will arrive at the last moment and save Jenny. But she doesn't

      • ChubbyPumpkin says:

        Yeah I had a lot of trouble with Xander a lot of the time, but here I was totally on his side. (But I will never LIKE him, he'll always seem like a poor man's Chandler Bing to me.)

        V nyfb nterr gung ur'f n orggre ivyynva guna nal jr znl frr ntnva. Gur guerng vf fb erny urer, fb pybfr naq gur srne fb cnycnoyr. Nsgre erjngpuvat (Pheeragyl ba frnfba 5) V whfg arire ernyyl srry nsenvq sbe Ohssl yvxr guvf ntnva (rkprcg jura fur tbrf pngngbavp, ohg vg jnfa'g ernyyl gur fnzr).

      • lurknomore says:

        I agree that Xander's outburst to Buffy is understandable, but I still don't agree with him. While there were many reasonable objections to the Buffy/Angel relationship, Xander's hate for Angel was pretty clearly tied to his jealousy; he has been hostile to EVERY guy Buffy has shown the least bit of interest in. So I don't think that he has any right to tell Buffy "I told you so."

        • PheasantPlucker says:

          I agree. Xander's 'I told you so' isn't "oh look I knew that he was an evil murderer", it's "any guy you date that isn't me is evil because I said so and if you had picked me instead Jenny would be alive."

        • settlingforhistory says:

          You are right that Xander's outburst is also tied to his jealousy, but I belive that the situation is serious enough that he wouldn't have said this if he where not so upset by Jenny's death.
          I doubt it had anything to do with choosing Angel over him, but more do to with "I was right".
          Ur arire fgbcf ungvat uvz, whfg yvxr ur jvyy arire yvxr Fcvxr.
          Ohg V ubarfgyl oryvir uvf ernfbaf sbe ungvat gurfr gjb punatr sebz furre wrnybhfl gbb ungerq sbe nalguvat qrzbal. Ur unf n irel oynpx naq juvgr ivrj, juvpu znxrf vg uneq sbe uvz gb qrny jvgu gur engure terl pubvprf gur bgure Fpbbovrf znxr.

          • @farwell3d says:

            I think people forget that a lot of Xander's hatred of Angel is rooted in his hardline stance on vampires, period. Remember the first two episodes, and one his two best friends being turned into a vampire that he winds up (somewhat accidentally) dusting.

            Not that his jealousy isn't a big part of it.

            • I think you're very right on this one. I mean, yes, jealousy is a really big part of it, which is why we have seen him react negatively to other guys, but the vampire thing is a component as well.

              V zrna, ur npgviryl yvxrf Evyrl dhvgr n ovg, lrg ungrf Fcvxr, qrfcvgr gur snpg gung obgu jrer vaibyirq jvgu Ohssl.

              • lurknomore says:

                Can we really say that Xander is more generally anti-demon than any of the others? I mean, it isn't like we've seen loads of good demons or monsters; the only two special cases I can think of right now are Angel and Oz, both of whom are also dating women in Xander's life. In fact, one of my least favorite Xander moments (naq V'z npghnyyl BX jvgu uvf yvr va Orpbzvat, ohg jr'yy trg gb gung va n pbhcyr bs jrrxf) is in "Angel," when he suggests that Buffy kill Angel because "you're the slayer, he's a vampire", or something to that effect, which even Giles seems hesitant about, under the circumstances. As in the later case, given how blindsided they are by the revelation that Angel is a vampire – and the fact that they don't know his true motives – it is an option that needs to be on the table, but that a jealous Xander would casually suggest to Buffy that she kill someone who has so far shown himself to be an ally and, perhaps more to the point, a person (if obviously not a human) really bothers me.

    • @eruvadhril says:

      "The dog Sunshine. Only Dru can name a dog after something that could kill her."

      I guess it's like people who name their dog "Killer" or "Bruiser" or similar.

    • notemily says:

      Yes obviously when Angel was "really honing his brooding skills" he was also really honing his creepy drawing skills.

      I didn't even get the irony of the puppy named "Sunshine." Ha.

  2. A Compilation of Comments That Made Our Hearts Ache

    "I Robot, You Jane"
    Mark: "The introduction of Jenny Calendar is WONDERFUL."
    enigmaticagentscully: "Annddddd…suddenly I ship Giles with Computer Science lady"

    "Prophecy Girl"
    Mark: "First of all, it’s great to have Jenny Calendar back in the action, and I hope to see her a lot more in the next season."
    enigmaticagentscully: "HEY!!! It’s Miss Calendar! I was hoping we’d see her again!"

    "When She Was Bad"
    enigmaticagentscully: "I watched the entire scene with Giles and Miss Calendar with a gigantic silly grin on my face. I mean BE MORE ADORABLE. I FUCKING DARE YOU.

    Yeah, that’s right.
    I am becoming emotionally invested in a ship.


    Jesus fuck guys, the last time this happened, someone ended up with a massive spike through their chest. HOLD ME."

    "Some Assembly Required"
    Mark: "Do I want to see [Giles] with Jenny Calendar? Who doesn’t?"
    enigmaticagentscully: "It’s so nice to see something going right for anyone in this show and I am fully counting this as a win on one of my predictions for season two! GOLD STAR FOR ME."

    "Lie to Me"
    enigmaticagentscully: "Jenny Calendar, there are not enough words in the English language, or indeed any language, to express my deep and abiding love for you."

    "The Dark Age"
    Mark-as-Joss: "Who could I kill that would have emotional resonance with Giles?"
    Mark-as-Joss: "…creating a sense of horrific dread because the viewer would then worry that at any given moment, I would kill off the only love interest Giles might ever have?"
    Mark-as-Joss: "Oh, I couldn’t kill off Jenny."
    enigmaticagentscully: "To be honest, I was pretty terrified for Jenny during this episode and it was a massive relief when they found a way to save her."

    "What's My Line, Part Two"
    Mark: "I miss Jenny Calendar."
    enigmaticagentscully: "I miss Jenny :("

    enigmaticagentscully: "Hear that? That’s the sound of my heart bursting into a million tiny jewel-winged butterflies and fluttering off into a soft, candyfloss scented breeze."

    enigmaticagentscully: "Jesus, Whedon, can’t you go five minutes without ruining the life of my favourite character?"

    "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered"
    enigmaticagentscully: "I need more Jenny Calendar in my life, tbh."

    • monkeybutter says:

      So cruel.

    • NB2000 says:

      It's mean and heartbreaking and EVERYONE NEEDS A HUG NOW RIGHT?

    • etherealclarity says:

      This. Every single comment along this lines made me go "oh god, this is going to be terrible". 🙁

    • hpfish13 says:

      These two comments yesterday had me putting my head down on my desk, because I just couldn't handle it.

      Inseriousity: Hey just wanted you to know that cos you're new to buffy too, it's good to read your first-time reactions too. Also your Giles/Jenny shipping will never become tiresome! 😀

      enigmaticagentscully: Glad to hear it! I'm having a ball watching along with Mark!

      Especially relieved about the Giles/Jenny, because I'm not stopping that any time soon. 😛

      • enigmaticagentscully says:

        Why must my life apparently be a constant stream of ironic punishments?



        What could I possibly have done to deserve this?

      • Inseriousity. says:

        Aww everyone thinks I was being really cruel saying that on the episode before her death. I SWEAR THIS WASN'T MY INTENTION, I JUST HADN'T GOT ROUND TO SAYING IT and had bad timing issues. I couldn't exactly say it after this episode, could I? It'd be like 'ye dig it in deeper why dont you'

        I'm sorry agentscully 🙁

    • enigmaticagentscully says:


      Oh super, I'm crying again.


    • Karen says:

      Everytime I'd see Mark or enigmaticagentscully talk about how much they loved Jenny, I cringed inwardly, knowing what was coming.

    • cait0716 says:

      Thanks for this compilation. You packaged all my heartbreak into one tidy comment.

    • knut_knut says:


      you forgot enigmaticagentscully's beautiful Giles/Jenny art 🙁

    • Smurphy says:

      Thank you for this… *goes and cries in the corner*

    • BethanytheMartian says:

      V xvaqn yvxr gung Wbff qvq vg gung jnl. Bxnl, V zrna, boivbhfyl V ungr gung ur xvyyrq Gnen, ohg V yvxr gung ur gerngf qrngu va fhpu n ernyvfgvp jnl. Wblpr qvrf xvaqn fhqqrayl, ohg gurer jnf n yrnq hc gb vg. Naq gung unccraf nf jryy. Ohg fbzrgvzrf crbcyr whfg qvr, naq gurer'f abguvat jr pna qb nobhg vg, ab fgbccvat vg, vg whfg pbzrf bhg bs abjurer naq ovgrf lbh va gur nff.

      Gung'f nyfb bar bs gur guvatf Ebjyvat qvq gung V pna ernyyl nccerpvngr- crbcyr whfg qvrq naq gung jnf vg, ab qrngu fprar, ab ynfg jbeqf, whfg ONZ. Tbar. Gung'f ubj vg unccraf n ybg bs gur gvzr.

      Nyfb, erzrzore jura Gnen naq Ohssl jrer gnyxvat nsgre Wblpr qvrq? Ohssl nfxrq vs vg jnf fhqqra jura ure zbgure qvrq, naq Gnen fnlf fbzrguvat yvxr "Ab. Ohg lrf. Qrngu vf nyjnlf fhqqra." V'z cnencuenfvat, ohg vg'f gehr. Naq V guvax vg jnf sberfunqbjvat Gnen'f vaperqvoyl fhqqra qrngu.

  3. VicarPants says:

    I made a .gif, and have been waiting for this review to debut it —

    <img src="; alt="" title="Hosted by" />

    May it serve us long and faithfully throughout the following seasons of BtVS.

    Naq abj V'z jngpuvat gur arire-raqvat njrfbzr gung vf Fcvxr naq Wblpr va Ybiref Jnyx gb znxr zlfrys ynhtu hagvy V crr n yvggyr.


    Also I must say the most affecting moment for me in this episode is Willow's reaction to the phone-call news of Jenny's death. I've heard those sounds in real life and Alyson Hannigan fucking NAILS it oh god chills forever.

  4. hpfish13 says:

    This is number 3 on Joss’s list of his favorite episodes he didn’t write (of course it is!) and here is why:

    “Death, La Boheme and Tony Head with a flaming baseball bat. Come ON, people.

    This site has officially invaded my subconscious, by the way. I had a dream two nights ago where I hadn’t done my homework for college (which I am no longer in), and one of the assignments was to write a paper on the meaning of the word passion, using several different definitions and references. Apparently, my brain was anxious about today’s post and took it out on me in my dreams.

    • cait0716 says:

      I love the flaming baseball bat. He just walks in swinging it and it's terrifying.

    • znachki says:

      For anyone that wonders about Ty King, there is a nice little thread over at Whedonesque (not titled Ty King). It is spoliery only in the last 2 posts and then only for 2 titles and a semi-vauge future character reference.

      Basically, he came out of retirement to pen eps for Joss, with whom he'd worked on Parenthood.

    • WhiteEyedCat says:

      Ha ha, I feel your pain, the night before Mark posted his first Buffy review I had a dream that I was reading the first Mark Watches Buffy post.

    • @Ivana2804 says:

      Which are the other episodes on the list?

      And although Joss isn't credited as a writer, it's not entirely true that he didn't work on the episode as a writer – he rewrote all of Angelus' narrations. He did a lot of uncredited rewriting in many episodes, be rira haperqvgrq jevgvat, nf va Pbairefngvbaf jvgu Qrnq Crbcyr.

      • hpfish13 says:

        The list is in the front of the episode guide that came with my collection of DVDs. I think it's episodes that he was not the main credited writer on, because, like you said, he contributed writing to many episodes.

        I was planning on listing them as they showed up, and so far they've been: The Pack, Ted, and Passion.

        If you're curious what the others are, here's a link to the list
        Search the page for the username Simon, his comment has the whole list. Gurer'f nabgure bar guvf jrrx!

  5. always amy says:

    You are not prepared

  6. buyn says:

    And so it was that: "Oh, I couldn’t kill off Jenny." was quoted in rot13 14 times in the comments for The Dark Age.

    Sometimes, you give us the best ammunition.
    Oh Mark, you are not prepared.

    • bookworm67 says:

      Hahaha, as one of the quoters myself, I realized afterwards that a ton of other people had done it too. Only makes it sadder I think 🙁

      But never fear! There are tons more things to quote ironically and heartbreakingly in rot13!
      (Yvxr Znex'f ybir sbe Wblpr. BU TBQ. Gubhtu gung'f abg sbe n juvyr lrg)

  7. SosaLola says:

    This is my favorite episode in S2. It's perfect from start to finish. Giles finding Jenny's body was just so heartbreaking. But I really loved how cruel Angelus was. I wish he hurt the other characters' the same way he did with Giles. I love the characters, but watching them in pain is so delicious.

    I really loved the different reactions to Jenny's death from the Scoobies: Buffy so shocked she let go of the phone and sat down with wide eyes. Willow crying right away – I can't help but cry here, Alyson is such a wonderful actress – I loved Joyce hugging her.

    Xander's sorrow when he realized what Angelus had done to Giles breaks my heart. Xander really loves Giles, he adores him, and that's why he snapped. All that time keeping his anger inside and being a supportive friend to Buffy, he couldn't do it anymore, not when one of them was killed, not what it hurt Giles. This time Buffy really needs to kill Angel. Xander can't take it anymore.

    • ChubbyPumpkin says:

      Oh god, nobody gets me crying like Willow does. Any scene where she starts to tear up yvxr jura fur naq Bm oernx hc be fur'f cvpxvat bhg pybgurf sbe Wblpr'f shareny, I collapse into a mushy weep-pile.

      • hamnoo says:

        Dude! This was the first time that I could decifer rot 13 without deciphering it. (Well, at least the first part). I feel proud of myself.

    • ladililn says:

      I love the characters, but watching them in pain is so delicious.

      This. Oh god, I am a terrible, terrible person, but it is a DELIGHT to watch Angel work. Schadenfreude at its best (worst?)

      The moment that hits me the hardest is after Giles finds the note from "Jenny", and he takes off his glasses and smooths back his hair. He just looks so adorable and hopeful and happy, and it is so deliciously awful to know that that's all about to be taken away from him.

    • RoseFyre says:

      Yup, this is one of the episodes that makes my top ten. The others that we've seen so far are Prophecy Girl and Haloween.

      And yes, I cried too!

    • SosaLola says:

      The way Xander looks up and loves Giles really hurts because I don't think Giles cares about him as much.

  8. Laurel says:

    This episode makes me ugly cry so. Hard. Every single time. Hell, reading the review for it made me get all choked up and weird. It certainly doesn't help that I'm sickly. Ugly crying all around.

    Jung'er lbh tbaan qb, Znex? Chapu PNAPRE?

    Also, I need to point out that the universe just conspired to make me death with this and that thing that happens in the opening chapter of The Two Towers ON THE SAME FUCKING DAY. GODDAMN IT.
    Somewhere, Boromir and Jenny Calendar are in a coffee shop, laughing at you.

    • etherealclarity says:

      "Jung'er lbh tbaan qb, Znex? Chapu PNAPRE?"

      Bu TBQ 🙁 🙁 🙁 Gung'f tbvat gb or fb zhpu jbefr, gbb.

    • enigmaticagentscully says:

      Somewhere, Boromir and Jenny Calendar are in a coffee shop, laughing at you.

      Someone should draw this. Right now. I'd do it myself but y'know, the endless tears and need to bang my head against my desk repeatedly screaming 'WHYWHYWHYWHYWHY' are kind of a distraction.

    • Karen says:

      "Jung'er lbh tbaan qb, Znex? Chapu PNAPRE?"

      "Gur Obql" vf bar bs gur zbfg fghaavat cvrprf bs gryrivfvba rire, ohg bu tbq. Vg vf fb urneg oernxvat. V nz obgu qernqvat naq ybbxvat sbejneq gb Znex frrvat vg.

    • VicarPants says:

      Chapu PNAPRE?


    • notemily says:

      Bbu, arng! Znlor vg'f n pyhr.

      Nu vs bayl Qrnq Wblpr unq orra n ebobg naq abg erny… 🙁

    • Pooslie says:

      Vf vg onq gung v nz PNPXYVAT JVGU TYRR ng gur gubhtu bs Znex'f ernpgvba gb "gur Obql" naq ubj hggreyl hacercnerq ur vf (jr nyy jrer) gubhtu V nz fher jura gur gvzr pbzrf, V jvyy or fboovat evtug nybat jvgu uvz.

  10. rabbitape says:

    This episode is one knife-twisting stab to the heart after another. I started to list all the things about this episode that hurt, and I ended up practically writing a transcript. Normally I despise voiceovers on TV, but even that works. This is masterful writing — masterful, gut-wrenching writing. It's a perfect symphony of pain. No one is safe, nothing is sacred, we will never be ok again.

    Everyone knocks it out of the park, too. Giles's face when he discovers Jenny, Willow's face when she hears the news, Buffy's face as she takes it all in, Angel's face watching them, gleefully anticipating, then enjoying, the fruits of his labor.

    I'm just relieved I had cookie dough in the fridge when I re-watched this one. I really, really needed it.

  11. t09yavosaur says:

    I got spoiled for a future Buffy episode while reading a Chuck review. My nerd is getting mixed together.

    Also, this was my side advert the other day:
    <img src=""&gt;
    It has been an interesting weekend.

    -The four of them hanging out is the most adorable thing ever. Though where is Oz? Was he not invited so Buffy wouldn't be a 5th wheel?
    -Every time Angelus shows up I feel the need to growl at him.
    -Danny Strong is back again!
    -There is a poster for self defense as they are talking about protecting Joyce.
    -Aw Jenny, that is not the best way to apologize.
    -Oh snap!! Angel has access to Willow as well!!
    -Fishies!!!!! 🙁
    -Awww, Dru got Spike a puppy…to eat…
    -Now that will be a good apology Jenny. Also I like the occult shop-owner.
    -enigmaticagentscully is gonna be heartbroken.
    -That Talk was not too awkward.
    -Angelus. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    -Nice Molotov Giles. And the flame on the bat is a nice touch. Have at him, Ripper.
    -I am watching this in the same room as my family while they all watch football. It is very hard to not cry.
    -Happy note: Sunshine the Puppy is still alive.

    • enigmaticagentscully says:

      enigmaticagentscully is gonna be heartbroken.

      It doesn't even begin to cover it.

    • ladililn says:

      Oh no! Was it a bad spoiler? 🙁 (Well, obviously all spoilers are bad, I'm just saying…did it seem super significant? Maybe if you rot13 it we can all do our part to suggest a bunch of extremely ridiculous contexts and twists on it so you get completely confused by what's real and what's not and when it actually happens, you'll be totes surprised! XD)

    • notemily says:

      Last night I got an ad at the bottom that said something about treating symptoms of ADHD. I was like "HOW DOES IT KNOW"

  12. NB2000 says:

    OH GOD THIS EPISODE! I really have no other thoughts besides JENNY! WHY MUST YOU DESTROY ALL HAPPINESS JOSS?!

    We see Angelus standing outside the Summers’ home, just to witness the grief of Willow and Buffy,

    While the audience can't hear the other side of the phone call apparently that really is Anthony Stewart Head talking to SMG and Alyson Hannigan during that scene.

    I laughed so hard at Drusilla’s puppy.

    Seriously that puppy is so freaking cute, and Dru keeping it around when she visits the magic shop is even cuter.

  13. Shiyiya says:

    As someone who was a victim of this very act (TWICE!!!!), I fucking hate that it’s a thing that exists in the world and is romanticized.


    • Mary Sue says:

      Yes. Some people are wrong and bad and badwrong and wrongbad.


  14. maccyAkaMatthew says:

    I had a feeling you'd sneak this one out a bit early…

    There could be big server strain on the hour.

    This, on the first run on the BBC in the UK, where I my draw hit the floor and I realised this goofy and yet increasingly involving series could produce absolutely outstanding drama. Those of us who saw this first time out didn't even know who Joss Whedon was, much less what he was capable of. This is also the episode that makes me sad for the people I know who bailed after a single episode of season one (like my Dad who has only seen "Teacher's Pet").

    It's pure melodrama, so I can understand why it might not be to everyone's taste but as a piece it's perfectly executed – the timing of story beats has an amazing precision and the way that everything escalates in sync is remarkable. Even something simple like the dramatic irony of Giles opening the episode telling Buffy that she mustn't let Angel get to her, which would be sufficient on its own to hang a story development on is just one thread among many.

    Anyway, that's all without reading the review, which I'll do now. Before that, though, I have to spoil you, Mark, for your own good and reveal that Joss learned his lesson from this and decided he'd gone too far. After this, things get much nicer. Future episode titles include: "Buffy Saves a Puppy"; "Oh Look! Willow and Some Kittens!"; "Joyce Has a Minor Cupcake Mishap but Everything is OK"; and "This is Oz, He's Writing a Song about Ponies and Rainbows". Whedon even ended up making a movie about the ancient concept of Serenity, doesn't that sound peaceful and awesome?

    • cait0716 says:

      All the beats are perfect, even the callbacks.

      I love the end with Buffy and Giles in the graveyard mourning Jenny. It perfectly mirrors the end of "Lie to Me", except that Buffy's done with lies and is finally ready to face the truth.

      I just love this episode so much. As painful as it is, everything about it is just perfect.

    • ladililn says:

      "Joyce Has a Minor Cupcake Mishap but Everything is OK" is one of my favorite episodes EVER, right up there with "Scoobies Experience a Minor Miscommunication Issue Which Causes Some Hurt Feelings but it Turns Out Buffy Just Heard Wrong and Everyone Got it Cleared Up and They All Had a Good Laugh and Spent the Next Forty-One Minutes of the Episode Playing Scrabble and Discussing How Much They All Loved Each Other".

      Not such a fan of how wordy Joss's episode titles got, though.

    • notemily says:

      "Joyce Has a Minor Cupcake Mishap but Everything is OK" is my personal favorite episode.

    • James says:

      This is Oz, He's Writing a Song about Ponies and Rainbows
      I would genuinely listen to song that all the time.

    • EmilianaDarling says:

      "Joyce Has a Minor Cupcake Mishap but Everything is OK" is definitely my favourite episode, hands-down. The musical number in the middle really just knocks it out of the park, IMO.

    • MrsGillianO says:

      Yes, I had no need to translate that. My thought exactly.

    • SecretGirl127 says:

      Talking pony, it has to be a song about a talking pony.

  15. settlingforhistory says:

    Also, I need to point out that the universe just conspired to make me death with this and that thing that happens in the opening chapter of The Two Towers ON THE SAME FUCKING DAY. GODDAMN IT.

    Oh man, when I read that chapter yeasterday all I could think was: 'Wow, this is going to be a wondeful day tomorrow, death and tragic music on both sites. We can't have anything nice, can we?

  16. knut_knut says:

    I hate everything


    This has been one heck of a Monday at Mark Does Stuff.

  17. ladililn says:

    Qnja Guernq!

    Bxnl, fb V nz 100% pbaivaprq va zl urnq pnaba gung vg jnfa'g n cvpgher bs Wblpr Natry qerj, ohg bs Qnja. Orpnhfr jung'f gur bayl guvat fpnevre guna lbhe cflpubgvp zheqrebhf rk fraqvat lbh n perrcl cvpgher bs lbhe zbgure fyrrcvat? Lbhe c. z. r. fraqvat lbh n perrcl cvpgher bs lbhe ryrira-lrne-byq fvfgre fyrrcvat.

    (Sbe rkgen qbhoyr obahf cbvagf, znlor Qnja jnf Wblpr ba gur orq naq gurl jrer anccvat gbtrgure!)

    • cait0716 says:

      Thanks for breaking my heart even more 🙁

    • clodia_risa says:

      V guvax lbh pbhyq tb rvgure jnl jvgu Qnja be Wblpr orvat gur bar va gur cvpgher. Ubjrire, V’z 100% pbaivaprq gung Qnja jnf gurer qhevat gur Wblpr naq Natryhf pbasebagngvba fprar, jvgu Wblpr ng bar cbvag beqrevat Qnja vagb gur ubhfr naq Natryhf trggvat va gur jnl.

    • ladililn says:

      Hahahaha AWESOME.

    • NB2000 says:

      V srry V fubhyq cbvag bhg gung gur Cebcurpl Tvey naq Vaabprapr synfuonpxf ner gur bayl rcvfbqrf Snyfr Zrzbevrf npghnyyl ersreraprf. Gurer'f n srj bgure synfuonpxf yvxr gur Knaqre/Pbeql bar gung qba'g frrz gvrq gb nal fcrpvsvp rcvfbqr (gur onpxtebhaq sbe gung ybbxf yvxr gurl'er ng n pneaviny).

      • BethanytheMartian says:

        V'z abg fhecevfrq gurer ner n srj rcvfbqr fcrpvsvp synfuonpxf. V xabj gur pbzvpf fgnegrq cynlvat jvgu fbzr Qnja fgbelyvarf gung jrer abg rcvfbqr fcrpvsvp, yvxr Qnja naq gur Uhttl Orne (V guvax? Fbzrguvat yvxr gung). V whfg xvaq bs jnag gb frr zber bs ure naq Ohssl vagrenpgvat, ernyyl. V jnag gb frr gurve eryngvbafuvc punatr bire gvzr.

        V jnag gb frr Ohssl jnyxvat ure ubzr sebz fpubby naq znxvat ure fvg ba n cnex orapu juvyr fur qvfnccrnef gb xvyy n inzcver fb Qnja qbrfa'g frr (naq gura Qnja jnyxf ubzr vafgrnq bs jnvgvat naq Ohssl trgf va gebhoyr sbe yrnivat Qnja nybar). Orpnhfr jr xabj gung'f gur fbegn guvat gung jbhyq gbgnyyl unccra svefg gjb frnfbaf.

  18. Iamwinterborn says:

    My thought process when I watched this episode for the first time:

    Jenny, doing stuff, okay, Jenny has figured out how to solve the problem, this is getting boring, yup he's been there. Saw THAT coming.

    Oh great, it's a chase scene, these are always so retarded, I mean, the vampires are stronger, faster than the human main characters, so why don't they ever just catch them and kill them, sigh, this is sooo predicta-




    *Then came denial.* She's not dead right? Was that a dream? No it wasn't a dream, there were no signs it was. But then what's going on at Giles house, she's…


    …I'm suddenly having sympathy for the Romani clan all those years ago. I did NOT think that was possible.

    *cue much eating of ice cream and chocolate syrup to dull the PAIN*

    • monkeybutter says:

      Don't use the word retarded.

      • Iamwinterborn says:

        Frak. >.<

        My apologies, I need to remember to censor my past self. I tried my hardest to put down exactly what I was thinking and this was on of those moments that I remember vividly since it sorta sticks in your mind when you accidently wish death on a (fictional) person and then it happens.

        Sadly, I think I was obsessed with that word when I was a teenager. It could be used in so many ways! >.> Ah, to be young and confident that I knew everything again…

    • Hanna says:

      That's pretty much what I went through when I first saw it too.

      Oh, Jenny. 🙁
      Oh, Giles. 🙁

    • Dru says:

      I'm suddenly having sympathy for the Romani clan all those years ago. I did NOT think that was possible.

      It's much easier now that you get to see exactly what they were up against, and the cruelty and awfulness and complete horror he was capable of.

      I never, ever understood the line of thought that basically went "oooh, but poor Angel! Why should he suffer for Angelus's sins, those Romani are meeeeeeeean and what a stupid curse!" Never. He gets to be a broody do-gooder wanker precisely BECAUSE of the curse, and the suffering? IMO he deserved it.

  19. L_Storm says:

    We've been waiting for you to get here Mark.

    As we all know, there's no such thing as a happy Joss relationship. Jenny and Giles about to reconcile? She is murdered. Angel and Buffy had things figured out and happy? Angel loses his soul and is the murderer of Jenny. Not to mention the heart-wrenching moments in other of Whedon's work.

    Ohg zbfgyl, V pna'g jnvg sbe Znex gb frr jung unccraf gb Wblpr naq Ohssl ng gur raq bs guvf frnfba. Urer jr frr gur qrcgu bs Wblpr'f ybir, ure qrgrezvangvba gb onfvpnyyl or n tbbq zbgure, gb haqrefgnaq rira vs fur qbrfa'g znlor jnag gb. Naq lrg, ng gur raq bs guvf frnfba, fur'yy xvpx Ohssl bhg bs gur ubhfr sbe orvat n Fynlre. Znex, lbh ner FB abg cercnerq. Naq gung'f abg rira pbirevat jung "Gur Obql" vf tbvat gb qb gb lbh.

    The fact of the matter is, Angelus IS irredeemable. Angel always seemed to feel that way, if you look back at how he talked about what he did to Dru, he basically did what he's doing to Buffy, killed everyone around her, drove her mad, drove her into vows in fact, then finished driving her mad and made her a vampire. This episode just makes that real for the viewers. I think it also shows a really key contrast between Spike and Angel. Spike "loves a good slaughter" but Angel goes for the mind-beraking and creepy. Spike just seems to love the carnage while Angel is truly evil. Juvpu trgf n ybg zber cebzvarag yngre ba, naq rira vagb gur frevrf Natry. Inzcver Fcvxr jnf arire nf rivy nf Natryhf (pbafvqrerq bar bs ugr zbfg rivy inzcf rire) ur whfg qbrf gur xvyyvat ovg orpnhfr ur gehyl rawblf vg. Ur'f abg n tbbq thl, qbrfa'g gel gb or, qbrfa'g cergraq gb or, ohg ur vfa'g fb rivy nf gb npghnyyl jnag gb grne fbzrbar zragnyyl gb cvrprf.

    Zl dhrfgvba sbe fcbvyrq ivrjref vf qb lbh guvax gung Ohssl xvyyvat Natry, fraqvat uvz gb n ubeevsvp uryy qrzrafvba, rgp., naq uvf erghea va frnfba 3, vf rabhtu gb erqrrz uvz? Qbrf ur rire trg erqrrzrq? V'z bs gur bcvavba ur qbrfa'g, juvpu vf n xrl cneg bs uvf ragver frevrf. Bguref gubhtugf?

  20. enigmaticagentscully says:

    I think it’s time for a Mark-style list, don’t you?

    Things that have made me spontaneously burst into tears since I watched ‘Passion’:

    -The sight of my Buffy DVD box sets
    -The calendar hanging on my wall
    -A leaflet advertising Mexican food
    -Absolutely nothing at all

    Fuck you, Joss Whedon.


    You know what? I liked Jenny Calendar. She was smart. She was cute. I liked her since the first episode she was in, the one with the silly internet demon where I was convinced she’d be killed off before the end because I liked her too much. But that wasn’t enough for Joss Whedon, render of souls and destroyer of dreams.
    No, he had to bring her in as a recurring character. For two fucking seasons. And every episode she was in, every time she smiled, or raised an eyebrow, or wrapped Giles around her little finger, he made me like her more. He gave her an intriguing backstory. He set up Jenny/Giles as the most adorable couple in the history of everything. He let me ship them, happily oblivious to what was to come. He made me care about what happened to them, about what happened to her. My brilliant, beautiful, techno-pagan with a secret past who thought Giles was kind of a sexy fuddy-duddy and once took him on a date to see Monster Trucks. Who called him a snob and accidentally shot him in the back with a crossbow, but fell in love with him anyway. Who banished demons and cast bones. Who worked day and night to find a cure for the man who murdered her uncle and slaughtered her people. Just a couple of episodes ago I named her in passing as my favourite character.

    He made me fall in love with her.

    He made me fall in love with her and then ripped her away in the most brutal, horrific, tragic way possible.

    I have been veering between incandescent rage and uncontrollable grief for the past half a day since I watched this episode. It has been a long time since a TV show affected me like this. I am about five seconds away from hopping on the nearest trans-Atlantic flight, going to find Joss Whedon and asking him to personally apologise.
    Or maybe just punch him in the face.
    Or stand outside his window at night screaming ‘WHYYYYYY??????????’

    Fucking hell this hurt a LOT. Look, I get very attached to fictional characters and when something like this happens out of the blue, it’s awful. I’ve obviously seen a lot of beloved characters die on my favourite TV shows, but this one just…destroyed me. It was so sudden and cruel and heartbreaking. It wasn’t like other character deaths I’ve seen. Angel chases Jenny, who is sobbing and terrified, through the school, and we’ve seen this kind of scene a dozen times before so I’m just waiting for Buffy to show up and save the day and then…Angel catches up with her and casually snaps her neck.
    It wasn’t calm, or drawn out. It wasn’t some heroic last stand, it wasn’t giving up after a long illness, being brought down in battle, or someone sacrificing themselves for a friend.
    It was visceral, violent and quite horrible. More than that, it was so shocking. A character who I loved, a person we’ve seen through two seasons, who has had a huge impact on the show, died. Alone and terrified. Just like that, she’s gone forever.

    The second after I finished watching this episode I ran downstairs, threw my arms around my father who was sitting on the sofa minding his own business, and spent the next 10 minutes sobbing my heart out. I really scared him actually, because at this point I think my family and friends are all convinced that I’m an inhuman robot. Look, I didn’t cry at Titanic. I didn’t cry at my Grandmother’s funeral. I can’t even begin to explain why this had such a devastating effect on me, but I feel like someone has just torn open my chest, thrown my still beating heart to the floor and stomped all over it. My Tumblr blog has not been a fun place to be around for the past day. Tell me I’m over-reacting, I don’t care guys, I was not emotionally prepared for this.

    I think I need to go scream into my pillow or something.

    For the next few weeks.

    I will never ever get over this.

    • beckaboomer says:

      🙁 *hug*

      I have not been looking forward to seeing you react to this episode, because I knew it would be horrible. Your comments are always so full of awesome and Giles/Jenny love. I felt this way the first time I saw "Passion," too. I cried for absolutely no reason (seeing my cat! my stuffed animals! my dad!), for a few days after. I'm sorry this episode upset you so much. We all feel that way about certain characters/shows/etc., so I don't think you're overreacting.

    • monkeybutter says:

      I am about five seconds away from hopping on the nearest trans-Atlantic flight, going to find Joss Whedon and asking him to personally apologise.
      Or maybe just punch him in the face.
      Or stand outside his window at night screaming ‘WHYYYYYY??????????’

      I vote all three.

      We've all been dreading you and Mark getting to this episode. You're not over-reacting a bit. Jenny's death is terrifying and violent and sudden. I was shocked by it even though I knew what was coming. There's no way to be prepared for it, and I'm sorry that it hurt you so badly. Internet hugs?

      <img src=""&gt;

    • etherealclarity says:

      🙁 *all the hugs*

    • knut_knut says:

      As soon as Angel killed Jenny, all I could think about was you 🙁


    • amyalices says:


      We all felt horrible for you guys who didn't know this was coming. It is still one of the most brutal episode I have ever seen. Jenny.

    • rabbitape says:

      A billion transatlantic hugs for you. You're right that it's not like any other character death. And it really, really hurts. You are not overreacting.

    • Oh, dear. I will give you ALL THE HUGS.

      (Also, you bought the DVDs? Aw.)

      • enigmaticagentscully says:

        Yep, when I heard Mark was going to be watching Buffy, I bought the box-set! I'd always been meaning to watch the show so…I took a chance.

        And I have done a commendable job of not throwing them out of the window today, I might add.

        • theDMG says:

          Probably not the thing you want to hear right now, but in the future you'll need to be careful with spoilage from the DVD's packaging because the people who put them together aren't the smartest. If you got the full all-season's box set (which it sounds like you did) then things are a bit minimized versus the individual seasons (where they would put big spoilery characters on the covers of the season's box sets….grrr.) Taking a quick look through my Chosen collection, the only thing that I see for concern is that you'll want someone put the first disc of Season 6 into the DVD player for you and take it out for you and don't ever look at the artwork on it until the end of the season. It's that bad and sent me into a fiery rage at how a DVD manufacturing company could do that. When my brother showed his fiancee the show, he had to hide that from her (as well as the earlier mentioned seasonal cases because he doesn't have the big box set.). So be prepared for that time and don't ever start randomly looking through packaging. K?

          • enigmaticagentscully says:

            I'll be as careful as possible. 🙂

            I'm already making a concerted effort to not read the blurbs, for a start. But I don't think there's any spoilery art on my DVDs? I don't know what country you're from, but I'm in England, so I have the region 2 box-set. It…seems ok?

            • notemily says:

              Well in the US at least, there is a photo on each actual disc.

            • MrsGillianO says:

              I had a quick look at my S6. If your version is like my R2 individual season set you needn't worry about that at least. Even so, be careful to avoid looking too closely at stuff. There is much to come for which you are completely unprepared.

              • theDMG says:

                Yay, that's good. I don't know what they were thinking on so much of the Region One artwork.

                • RoseFyre says:

                  And the voiceovers. THE VOICEOVERS. Way to spoil two major Season 1 plotpoints, show. (So glad they got rid of those. So glad.)

            • lawrence_s says:

              Even sometimes the DVD and episode menu screens can be spoilery, though.

              It wasn't bad in season 2, where it's very hard to see the images behind the menus, but from 3 on, the overall packaging and disc quality improved (finally in S3, it automatically advances to the next episode when you return to the main menu!) so the menu screens became a lot more decorated, and unfortunately, more obvious and spoilery, too.

              V'z rfcrpvnyyl guvaxvat bs Ybiref Jnyx, Arj Zbba Evfvat, naq Nf Lbh Jrer, sbe juvpu gur zrahf nyy fubj gur punenpgre jub unq yrsg gur fubj ergheavat, juvpu xvaq bs ehvaf gur fhecevfr jura gurl npghnyyl ghea hc va gur rcvfbqr.

              Of course, this could be entirely different in Region 2. I'm not sure what they changed besides the packaging, the aspect ratio, and adding the "Previously on Buffy…." segments that aren't present in the Region 1 release (but are on Netflix somehow), so maybe your menus are entirely different, too.

              Still, if you can find a way to navigate the menus and start the episodes without looking at the screen (and confirm, maybe using the track number, that you've started the right episode), I highly recommend it. 🙂

            • Am I alone in completely and totally hating the Season 2 DVD menus with a firey passion? They are honestly some of the most annoying menus ever. With the moving around a dumb CGI graveyard that seems to take longer the more you want to watch the episode you selected. Ugh.

          • notemily says:

            I think it's [Qnex Jvyybj.]

          • Noybusiness says:

            Well technically, if you don't know what the picture of Qnex Jvyybj means, you may not notice it as significant because it won't mean anything to you.

            • lawrence_s says:

              I think that's what's meant by 'expectation spoilers', though. It's still something, even if the meaning is unknown.

              If a person who hadn't seen the entire series saw a particular image (or heard a quote) from a future episode, they might start wondering what the context was and when in the show it would appear. And when it finally did, their reaction would be something more along the lines of "Oh, so that's what that was!" rather than whatever the expected reaction of the average, unspoiled viewer would have originally been.

              Gung fnvq, vg vf n funzr jr jba'g or noyr gb chyy bhg "Oberq abj" ba Guhefqnl. 🙂

    • Riel says:

      I'm so sorry. It was really heartbreaking reading your comments, seeing how much you liked Jenny, and knowing what was going to happen and HOW it happened 🙁

    • mophead50 says:

      I love your posts as much as Mark's….I have seen this episode numerous times and it still gets me how brutal the attack on Jenny was. Angelus does not even bother to feed which shows his contempt for Jenny and sends a message to the scoobie gang they are less than food. Throughout the episode I remember Giles telling Buffy not to act rash because of the actions of Angelus…then he turns around and almost gets himself killed by acting rash and letting Angelus get to him. I adore the scene where after saving Giles, Buffy holds him…telling Giles she needs him. Who does not love bad ass Ripper fighting vampires.

    • arctic_hare says:

      A million billion hugs. *hugs* I'm so sorry. I've been dreading this more with each episode she's been in, and seeing your love of them made me want to cry because I knew this was coming. 🙁

    • hassibah says:

      Oh man, I will be on that plane with you. Just FYI this ending is the only reason that I listed Giles and Jenny as my second favourite relationship of the show cause HDU.

      I'm sorry :/

    • notemily says:

      We were all pre-emptively hugging you over on the spoiler blog, jsyk.

    • cait0716 says:

      I have been veering between incandescent rage and uncontrollable grief for the past half a day

      …the clarity of hatred…the ecstasy of grief…

      This is what Whedon does to all of us. And he knows it, too. *hugs*

    • Ginsue says:

      Everything. You. Said.

      Damn you, Joss Whedon!

      Where are the torches and pitchforks when you need them? Metaphorical torches and pitchforks of course.

    • UnstrungZero says:

      Add me to the list of people that have been DREADING this moment for you. 🙁

      It might be weird to say, since we don't know each other, and your comments here are all I know of you, but I seriously have been wishing I could change Jenny's death just for your (and Mark's) sake. 🙁

      *ALL THE HUGS* There is nothing wrong with feelings. You're feeling horrible enough, don't add to it by telling yourself you're overreacting or shouldn't feel like this over a fictional character. *pets*

      Welcome to the pain of Joss-ness. >.<

    • RachelFatale says:

      Like everyone else, I was feeling so bad for you as soon as I saw how attached to Jenny you had become. And I know just how you feel, because I went through the same thing when I first watched Buffy. Jenny was my favorite character, I absolutely adored her, and then this happened. Seven years later, I'm still heartbroken.


    • DavidZAarons says:

      I've been one of the people who was genuinely worried about this episode for you and Mark as I've been reading along. 🙁

      So here are a hundred hugs from the Doctor.

      [youtube ZrBYaB2l_cs youtube]

    • Nos says:

      I've been dreading this episode simply because of you: I AM SO SORRY. Reading your growing love of Jenny was totally heartbreaking knowing what was to come. *hugs*

    • @Ivana2804 says:

      Don't feel bad for not crying at Titanic; my only emotion for that movie was infinite boredom and annoyance with all the cliches.

      This episode, however? One of the most heartbreaking pieces of onscreen drama, ever.

    • Hotaru_hime says:

      Standing outside Joss Whedon's window screaming, "WHYYYYYYYYYY" will probably have no effect. There are probably hordes of people every day shouting it for multiple reasons.
      I believe he is some sort of demi-demon that gains strength when we mourn characters we love.

      • MaggieCat says:

        Yeah, when I first read that comment above my first thought was of his neighbors looking out their windows.

        "There's someone screaming on the Whedons' lawn again. Must have just watched "Passion". Be "Gur Obql". Be "Frrvat Erq". Be "Ureb". Be "Fyrrc Gvtug"/"Sbetvivat". Be "N Ubyr va gur Jbeyq". Be …."

        I hope he throws a good party or something every year, because that's going to earn you some understandably irritated looks when you go out to get the paper. 🙂

      • eulaliavox says:

        I believe your theory is accurate.

    • RoseFyre says:

      You are so not overreacting. Even having seen it twice before, even knowing what was coming…I still cried last night when I rewatched this. I just…couldn't not.

      And that's what I love about Buffy. I care about these characters. I love them. And a show that can make me cry when they die…that's the show I want to watch.

    • eulaliavox says:

      OHGOD. I just want to hug you and Mark and everybody. Because I KNOW.

  21. Seventh_Star says:

    i'm brain-dead tired today which is unfortunate because this is one spectacular episode in which we look into angelus's psyche. the dark stylized feel of it, with the narration and moody score, is beautifully done and very appealing to me.

    the way that angelus prefers to torture his victims is through psychological warfare- he kills willow's pets, he sneaks into buffy's house (edward cullen style) and DRAWS HER (establishing that he possesses this talent), he continues to emasculate spike every chance he gets, he tells joyce about being physically intimate with buffy, he hunts jenny down only to insult her death by breaking her neck instead of feeding on her, and giles…poor giles…he gets the full set up complete with roses, operatic music, and the dead body of the woman he loves in his bed.

    that's what this fucker does for kicks. as with any good villain, i love him and hate him for it simultaneously.

    buffy: "i can't believe it's the same person. he's completely different from the guy that i knew."
    willow: "well, sort of. except…"
    buffy: "except what?"
    willow: "you're still the only thing he thinks about."

    almost every vile thing angelus does in this episode is done, ultimately, to get to buffy.

    few things:

    fabbcl qnapr!

    buffy really wouldn't have noticed angelus just standing there outside the bronze, feeding on someone? where are those famous slayer senses when you need 'em? or, y'know, just eye sight.

    luckily, angelus doesn't understand computers so much…

    • ladililn says:

      A++ for your thoughts on Angelus, which happened to capture mine completely. The insult of him not even feeding on Jenny hadn't even occurred to me, and just makes me (love to) hate him so much more.

    • cait0716 says:

      I as watching the computer, and when he threw it off the desk, he did break both the computer and the monitor. Then the monitor caught fire, so he burned the printed out pages. I think he knew what he was doing.

  22. spikesjojo says:

    That's the genius of Whedon. When I first watched this I expected Angelus to go about scaring everyone and threatening – but to see one of his threats get real, to see his chase of Jenny Calendar, knowing it was for fun, predator chasing prey, and then to see him kill her!! Then the set-up for Giles finding her is so excruciatingly painful that you start to get an idea of why Angelus was known as for torturing his victims psychologically.

    Love the dog – love the way, when Dru hands Spike the dog he just sits there and pets him. A shout out for James Marsters – he's so furious, so hurt, and the only one of the three who sees that these actions are gonna bring "an incredibly brassed off slayer" looking for them. Angel really enjoys playing the same psychological games with his vampire 'family' as he does with his humans – flaunting his sexual possession of Dru, rubbing Spike's helplessness in his face. It's a microcosm of all the evil he's doing in Sunnydale. Because the humans are equally powerless, as Angel taunts with pictures and words, then makes his move.

    One favorite scene – Giles at the Summers house saying perhaps he should go upstairs and talk to Joyce about Buffy having had sex with Angel. Willow smiles that incredibly bright smile and asks "Okay. What are you going to say?" Love those few minutes watching various emotions flit over his face as he thinks and discards possible topics.

    So now we are catching on. Another show might make Angel a bit bad and then snap him out of it. This show began by informing viewers that Angel was one of the most evil vampires in history. He even told Buffy how he went about making Drucilla 'insane'. In this episode it's clear he is trying to use the same tactics to make Buffy insane – killing those she loves, forcing home the fact that whatever she does won't be enough.

    Whedon doesn't take the easy answer an just paper over with 'Oh, Angel is just fine now, was only a phase.' Now, they have an evil sadistic mass murderer on their hands. You are completely correct. The evil is no longer in the distant past. Once again – you aren't prepared….but you are getting there!

  23. Katarina says:

    Yeah, I winced in sympathy when I realized that these upsetting eps of BtVS would coincide with these upsetting chapters of LotR.

    As much as I love Jenny, though, and I do, I think hers is one of the best deaths Joss has ever written. Sometimes it feels like he goes "Ooh, I haven't killed anyone in a while, who shall it be? *roll of dice*" but this fits the storyline very well and is set up in an absolutely awful and narratively gorgeous way.

    • Ginsue says:

      That is arguably one of the better things about Jenny's death. It doesn't feel phoned in. After all this build up of Angel's true character, and her involvement with it, it is effective. For a second I fooled myself to believe that she survived a neck-snapping, though.

      I wish she could have died saving Giles from a fatal attack. Okay, it may have not been better thematically, but I want a dramatic moving last scene of reconciliation where she dies peacefully in his arms, all is forgiven, and the last thing she sees is Giles bitter-sweet smile…. What? I can dream!

  24. Noybusiness says:

    Creepy music for a creepy guy.

    [youtube IS6G9Y95Lpg youtube]

  25. etherealclarity says:

    This was, oddly, the first episode of Buffy I ever watched (or at least, the first one I watched KNOWING that it was Buffy). I think it convinced me that I liked the show enough to watch it regularly, though the Angel voiceovers lent a very strange air to the whole thing. And of course it didn't have the same emotional weight it would have if I had been watching from the beginning, but it was still good enough to convince me.

    This may also explain part of why I never cared much about Jenny or about Buffy/Angel – because when I started watching, I already knew that both were gone.

    I love Joyce's sex talk with Buffy. I think she pinpoints some of why I felt that Buffy wasn't ready for sex in Surprise, and although she's fumbling her way through it a bit, I think she manages to do it in a way that didn't seem particularly slut-shamey. Just good old maternal concern for her daughter's emotional and physical safety.

    Gubhtu V jbaqre ubj zhpu Znex jvyy pbagvahr gb yvxr Wblpr ng gur raq bs guvf frnfba naq vagb gur arkg, pbafvqrevat ubj zhpu ur vf eryngvat gb Ohssl jvgu gur tnl + pbzvat bhg zrgncube.

    • Karen says:

      IA about Joyce's talk with Buffy. I think Joyce was just really concerned about Buffy's well-being because like Joyce had just met Angel and from what she saw of him, HE IS TERRIFYING.

      Oh and IDK. V guvax gung Wblpr gryyvat Ohssl abg gb pbzr ubzr jnf gur xvaq bs guvat lbh fnl va gur zvqqyr bs na nethzrag gung lbh qba'g ernyyl zrna naq vg pnzr sebz n cynpr bs jnagvat gb cebgrpg Ohssl V guvax. Cyhf, fur fcraqf gur fhzzre frnepuvat sbe Ohssl naq vqx. Vg'f boivbhf gb zr gung Wblpr ernyyl ybirf ure qnhtugre naq vf nyjnlf whfg jnagvat gb xrrc ure fnsr.

  26. Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

    This episode is intense, and easily one of my favorite episodes of the season. I like the more extreme episodes because when the show can make you feel so much for fictional characters you know it’s amazing, and reminds me why Buffy is my favorite. Here we finally get to see what Angel is all about. There have been allusions in earlier episodes but he really turns the evil up here. The writers really want us to hate someone we used to love. I’ve never read Twilight but I saw the first movie and when I was watching the episode I also found it funny how a person watching another person sleep could be portrayed as romantic in one story and then so disturbing in another. Of course I find the Buffy treatment of the subject more accurate.

    Random Thoughts While I was watching:
    -I wonder why it wasn’t their first instinct to have Angel banished from the Summer’s house… Since they obviously knew he would try and come after her at some point.
    -Lol, crazy that the library is actually being used as a library
    -I think one of the creepiest parts of this whole episode, is the encounter between Joyce and Angel. I mean I know he’s evil, but that’s so uncomfortable.
    -Then perhaps the most badass line is “Sorry Angel, changed the locks”
    -I have to wonder why Jenny didn’t wait until after she actually translated the text before buying the orb… I mean imagine if the translation didn’t work out… the orb would’ve been a complete waste of money and maybe Dru wouldn’t have had a vision until after she had a chance to TELL people about the spell.
    -Willow is so cute… “Being a librarian and all…”
    -Joyce kind of reminds me of my own Mom… I think that’s the sign a TV Mom is successful.
    -Then of course Giles… Poor Giles. This is just so disturbing. It’s even worse thinking that Giles and Jenny never really truly got that closure.
    -I love the narration by Angel, I think it adds to the disturbing tone of this episode.

    • cemeterybaby says:

      "Sorry Angel, changed the locks" is way up there on my list of favorite lines in the show. Although I do wonder how it is that Joyce had JUST COME IN THE DOOR and not only is nowhere to be seen but apparently is completely nonplussed about her daughter's best friend hanging out on the stairs, waving around some herbs and chanting in Latin. I mean that's not a little concerning???

      • Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

        I never thought about that… Maybe she was just really super freaked out about what he said that she couldn't stay there. Or maybe it was just an artistic choice.

      • hoodd1 says:

        She sort of addresses it in a quick comment to Joyce later in the episode. Something about how he's superstitious.

      • msnaddie says:

        I was wondering about that as well! That, and the fact that, hello Buffy couldn't you have spared your mother the heart attack and, I dunno, open the doors or something?! LOL our priorities.

    • monkeybutter says:

      Please don't use the word crazy on this site.

  27. cemeterybaby says:

    Jung'f vagrerfgvat vf gung jura Natryhf xvyyf Wraal, ur vf checbfrshyyl va inzc-snpr orpnhfr Wbff qvqa'g jnag crbcyr gb nffbpvngr Natry'f snpr jvgu Wraal'f zheqre. (Ebg13-vat guvf orpnhfr V nyzbfg srry yvxr vg'f n fcbvyre gung Wbff jbhyq jnag gb cebgrpg gur snaf' ivrj bs Natry nsgre Natryhf? VQX, orggre fnsr guna fbeel.)

    I have to say in the midst of this episode I still found time for a good "SHUT UP XANDER" moment. When Buffy comes into the library clearly freaked out about having been stalked in her sleep–and Cordelia is freaking out too although for admittedly less immediately pressing reasons–instead of doing anything like, I don't know, comforting them, he takes the opportunity to lecture them about inviting strange men into their houses! Of course he does! What would we do without his patronizing victim-blaming input here? Clearly Buffy should have foreseen Angel eventually turning into an evil murderer a year ago when she brought him into her house while they were being chased by vampires trying to kill them.

    Gur raqvat znxrf zr fbo sbe nyy fbegf bs ernfbaf, ohg zbfgyl orpnhfr bs gur gentrql bs Ohssl fnlvat fur'f ernql gb xvyy Natry abj. Rirelguvat nobhg guvf jubyr nep vf cnvashy gb ybbx onpx ba va gur yvtug bs Orpbzvat naq ure xvyyvat Natry, abg Natryhf. Fur gevrf fb uneq gb or cercnerq sbe jung fur unf gb qb naq Natryhf znxrf vg rnfvre…naq lrg. 🙁

    • Karen says:

      UGH. ITA ABOUT XANDER. skdfj;lskdjf;lsdj I didn't mention it in my comment because I was trying to streamline my thoughts, but klasjdlfk UGH STOP IT, XANDER.

    • Tina says:

      Well as he said later in the episode, he never liked Angel, and his feelings are pretty much "validated" now.
      Not that it's excuse him, but it explains why he didn't shut up about it. It demands a lot of tact to not say "I told you so" to a friend you "warned" about how you didn't "feel" his/her boy/girlfriend. And Xander is not known for hist tact.

      • Pseudonymph says:

        His feelings are absolutely not validated.

        He hated Angel before because he was envious of him.

        Now he and everyone else hate Angel because he's a murderer.

        • Tina says:

          Let's agree to disagree then 🙂 Because I really think that Xander wouldn't hate him that much if Angel wasn't a vampire. (he doesn't hate that much all the other guys who made a move toward Buffy)

    • Pseudonymph says:

      My "shut up Xander" moment was when he told them he hated Angel long before they jumped on the bandwagon.

      Uh, yeah, about that. You hated Angel because Buffy wanted to be with him and not you, not because he was a murderer stalker, evil villain guy.

      So yeah. Shut up, Xander.

  28. fantasylover120 says:

    Yeah, remind me to thank Whedon for ruining the music of La Boheme for me for life. I literally cannot listen to that music without thinking of Giles/Jenny and getting choked up.
    Daily Buffy Quoteable (not many this time because of ALL THE SAD):
    Giles: This is the school library, Xander. Xander: Since when?
    "For the first time, I'm glad my parents didn't let me have a puppy."-Willow
    "Been there, done that. Deja vu just isn't what it used to be."-Angelus

  29. Noybusiness says:

    Vocals by Anthony Stewart Head:

    [youtube NxgPpOtnx0Q youtube]

    • enigmaticagentscully says:


      Why would you do this.

    • beckaboomer says:


      Christophe Beck really did some nice work for this show. Anthony doing the vocals just makes this even more haunting and heart-breaking.

    • settlingforhistory says:

      And I'm crying again, this gets me every time.
      This is my favourit score, ASH sounds wonderful and it makes this so personal as if we hear Giles crying.

      V pna'g jnvg gb urne Tvyrf fvat ba Ohssl, rira orsber gur zhfvpny V jnf va ybir jvgu NFU'f ibvpr.

    • UnstrungZero says:

      Remembering Jenny is such a gorgeously sad song. And I love the choice to have ASH's vocals on it. Just… perfect. *sighs*

  30. plaidpants says:

    I had a gut feeling when Jenny was working at night and Angel came in that she wasn't going to survive. She wasn't part of the Scoobies (and I feel like any of their deaths would be kept for a major season finale or something) but she was a developed enough character that her death would mean something. And there just didn't seem to be anyway Buffy would somehow come in and save her at the very end. I like that she didn't make it simple though – she kept on fighting til the very end.

    But I expected her to be found at school, what I did not expect was for Angel to absolutely DESTROY Giles. Gah – the look of happiness of his face when he saw the rose and the note, and he was just expecting fun sexy times ahead and then BOOM – death. Gah that was wonderfully done. (I was highly amused picturing Angel setting everything up though, where'd he get all the props?) This makes me wonder, if Angel is ever turned good again, how in the world could Giles forgive him? I mean, I know that it's not really the same person, but gosh I really can't see how he could get past that….

    (but of course, the end scene of the 3×5 disk hitting the floor I lol'ed, I must admit – goodness how technology has changed!)

  31. tigerpetals says:

    You posted early! And I'm watching it really late. Now I'm going to write this in the comment box as I watch.

    I like that there are previouslies. I forgot to take note of when we stopped getting the voiceover. Last week, with Bad Eggs?

    She doesn’t wake up but in the What’s My Lines she did. Hey, I wonder if he signed it, I forgot to pay attention to that.

    You’d think they’d have looked for such a spell earlier.

    That’s a nice offer, Cordelia. Of course Giles will be the one nearly getting killed out of passion.

    Please heal; this ship really hurts. It’s not even the worst thing you thought she did, come on! At least it’s made clear that Giles is keeping his distance for Buffy’s sake.

    Did we ever see Willow’s fish before? I should have been watching for that.

    I’m already sad with Sunshine showing up.

    It’s always been weird to me how antagonistic Spike and Angel are here. Is it really the wheelchair? Spike was happy to have him back and called him his Yoda earlier. Vf vg ernyyl fhccbfrq gb or n arj guvat gung gurl svtug bire Qehfvyyn? V qvqa’g guvax fb sebz yngre xabjyrqtr, fb znlor gur jurrypunve guvat vf n gevttre. Nf gurl trg hfrq gb orvat gbtrgure ntnva.

    So, did Uncle Enyos live in the US somewhere , or is the store a franchise?

    Glare disapprovingly, Willow. At something.

    Thank you Buffy for being reasonable.

    I assume Cordelia thinks no one would target her grandmother.

    Why should she believe him anyway, if he’s acting like a creep.

    I feel crass saying anything right now. What can I say, I know how this ends.

    At least the dog is alive? For now? Well I wouldn’t put it past Drusilla to carry its corpse around.

    It’s a school, vampires come here all the time.

    I’m really upset now. She tried so hard to make it up and now she knows she’ll die and she just talks as if she’s talking to souled Angel even though she knows it’s not. She should have been running while he was vandalizing her classroom.

    Not up the stairs; this is like a horror movie.

    I don’t remember when Angel was at Giles’ apartment.

    And she believed him! It was true, but she didn't need to believe the creep. Though all in all it wasn't that bad a talk.


    • tigerpetals says:

      Part 2

      It's kind of sweet how Drusilla wheels Spike out instead of going to help Angel.

      Throw him onto the fire, Buffy!

      Callback to Prophecy Girl only more sad since Buffy came back in the same episode.

      Is it allowed for them all to cross into the crime scene?

      Willow is in too much pain to make her own lesson plans anymore.

    • robin_comments says:

      It’s always been weird to me how antagonistic Spike and Angel are here. Is it really the wheelchair? Spike was happy to have him back and called him his Yoda earlier.

      I've always assumed that it was nostalgia, personally. Reminds me of how I started really re-writing how happy me and an ex-girlfriend were (I glossed over her passive aggressive nature so much) and by the time we ran into each other 5 years later I had been really regretting that we broke up… and then wow it didn't take long for me to remember exactly why that happened.

      Perhaps after several decades Spike forgot how difficult it could be. But I think certainly the wheelchair amplifies this because it keeps Spike from being able to fight back and makes Angel's comments hit harder.

      • notemily says:

        You need that thing they have on How I Met Your Mother, where you break up with someone and then write a list of all the things you hate about them so you're not tempted to go back. 🙂

        • robin_comments says:

          I don't watch the show so I've never heard of this before, but it sounds like A REALLY GREAT IDEA. I definitely have issues with such things. Spike and I should join a support group.

    • TrampyMcBitca says:

      "It’s a school, vampires come here all the time. "

      Yeah, that part always takes me out of the scene just a little bit. Jenny? It's a public place. Not only have you seen Angel in the school before, you've seen OTHER vampires in the school before (Prophecy Girl/School Hard/Lie to Me)

    • notemily says:

      I don’t remember when Angel was at Giles’ apartment.

      Me neither! How could he have gotten in? Now that's going to bug me.

      • RoseFyre says:

        I don't think we actually see this, oddly enough. Because I can't remember either, and between all of us we SHOULD be able to if it happened…

        • notemily says:

          I'm just going to assume that Angel came over for tea and a chat about ancient books of prophecy at one point or another.

          • RoseFyre says:

            Yeah, my assumption is something along those lines, or to help with something we don't see in the series – maybe there was something over the summer that they needed to discuss? But I don't think it happened in canon, and by the time they thought about it, it was too late to shove in a scene without making it look very forced – or it was after Angel went evil.

    • @Ivana2804 says:

      I think Angel's using the opportunity that Spike's in the wheelchair to get one over him and humiliate him. But rewatching Innocence, it suddenly seemed that it might be partly because he was so pissed off by Spike's comments about him being the Slayer's lapdog (there was a lot of rage in that moment when he seemed like he was going to punch him or something and then he kissed him) and Spike's questioning of his judgment and ability to kill. Made him want to get one over Spike all the more and hit him where it hurts him the most.

  32. enigmaticagentscully says:

    File Under: Things That Have Made Me Cry Today

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

  33. misterbernie says:

    – I… I can’t get down with Boreanaz’ (Boreanaz’s? Boreanazesesses? HOW U WERK ENGLISH) narration.
    – Creepy Edwangel.
    – Meta commentary on the library, okay, that one’s funny.
    – Foreshadowing ironic counsel from Giles!
    – Jenny 😀 ! JENNY D: ! And Willow being adorbs! Also Giles and Jenny… sense of whimsy, that’s one way to put it. Also, all my heartbreaks.
    – Qba'g chg Jvyybj va n cbfvgvba bs nhgubevgl vg jba'g raq jryy.
    – "You can tell me anything!" let’s wait for 20 minutes more into the ep
    – No not Willow’s fish 🙁 also don’t mention puppies, Willow
    – V guvax jr trg n fubg bs fbzr pybirf bs tneyvp va na rneyvre rc jura Ohssl bcraf ure "fynlre qenjlre", naq gurer'f bar va frnfba… fvk, V guvax?
    – I have a weird appreciation of the shopkeeper, because his character is an interesting play on the ethnic stereotype, and another glimpse into "civilians" dealing with the supernatural world.
    – And now for a complaint: why is this ritual in Romanian? Now, I am the first to admit that I don’t know how high the rate of bilingualism for Romani and Romanian was in Kalderash clans at the time when Angel was ensouled, but it strikes me as highly weird that their ancient magics would’ve been in Romanian. It strikes me the kind of weird that says to me "sloppy research", with the writers probably confusing Romani and Romanian.
    Resources on Romani are scarce, and I assume were even harder to find in the 90s, but Romanian, while not the most prominent Romance language, shouldn’t have been too hard to translate.
    – Aaaanyways, it’s nice to see Buffy trying to be nice to Jenny for Giles before… well…
    – It’s /reˈskisːus/, Willow. We can be glad that apparently magic doesn’t care much for pronunciation, eh? (fun fact: rescissus is from rescindo, which is of course the source of rescind). Also, *verbes doesn’t exist. It’s verbis (I’m not unrusty enough to remember if an ablative/dative works like this, but whatever).
    – The timing on this episode is off if you think about it. Or Drusilla and Angel are superfast
    Formatia trans sicere educatorum is… is… that is bad. Also, lol Angel this is not how computers work . And then. Well. We all know what happens
    – And cut to Willow and Giles being weirdly adorable. Mood whiplash.
    – And now this episode just goes for the hurt. But thank you Boreanaz for making this scene more bearable by distracting me with your reading aloud voice.
    – Don’t get killed, angry badass Giles 🙁 also maybe you should’ve aimed at the vampires instead of … their table. Also hee, Spike, you are adorbs in this scene.
    – Buffy and Giles 🙁 <3
    – Willow 🙁 <3 !
    – FLOPPY DISK 🙁 <3 !

    German title: Das Jenseits lässt grüßen – The Hereafter says hi.
    Yes, that is TOTALLY AN APPROPRIATE TITLE, German dubbing team.

  34. bookling says:

    It's so UNSETTLING the way Angel stalks and harasses Buffy and her friends, and like you I am really glad that the show intentionally portrays it that way. I also love that when he approaches Joyce on the front lawn she is having NONE. OF. IT. He tries to be all charming and I-just-want-to-talk-to-her and Joyce basically tells him to fuck off. She is such a good mom.

  35. hassibah says:

    So fun fact: I got spoiled for this by an ad for a Buffy comic in the back of another comic. I'd just started season 2 at the time and I was not happy &gt;: (

    Also people keep telling me that Buffy hates Jenny because they're misinformed and for all they know she made Angel evil herself: Buffy's still telling her she should feel bad even after she told them all that she didn't know what would happen and offering to help, so I don't see this.
    I didn't really expect Jenny and Giles to be making out by this point or for Jenny to be a full fledged scooby right now. What I did expect is that maybe it would dawn on them before now that oh shit here is a person that is also invested in Angel having a soul and maybe we can put our differences aside for that goal, and also that someone who's experienced with magic might be of some use to us right now.

    And besides that it's not like they'd have a reason to think that she'd be targeted by Angelus, it's not as if the first person that Angel went out looking to murder was her blood relative. And it's not like Buffy didn't at least try to protect Ethan from Giles'demon for the greater good even though she did really hate his guts.
    I really dislike how the show has made Jenny's fam out to be baddies when Buffy wouldn't even have had her boring ensouled boyfriend if not for them, at the least there's a moral grey area here. I do think it's kind of bad taste that you choose a people that's chronically stereotyped as sketchy and untrustworthy and then as soon as everyone discovers that a character is Roma nobody trusts them and we're supposed to believe that they're right to. In a world where people are working under secret identities and have demon related deaths to their name as a relatively regular thing and people seem to otherwise get forgiven for those things much quicker.

    That out of the way: it really bothers me that people on this show keep doing all their really important vampire related work in a public building. It never really occurred to me that Jenny hadn't thought of this by now. Esp after parent-teachers night, but whatever the horrible plot has to advance.

    Also: Giles should have known something was up when Jenny put on opera. Why would Jenny ever listen to opera?

    Love the shopkeep though! Too bad we couldn't have him around for another episode.

    Also love Spike trolling Angel about how much he sucks at killing things-even though yeah telling Buffy's mom that they slept together is just good psychological tactics. If I was Buffy I would so have lied and said that Angel was just full of shit and trying to get back at her through her mum, but ugh whatever I love Joyce here.

    Also sorry guys but when Xander calls for killing Angel I like him, context be damned. In general but today especially.

    Overall this is a good episode, but I really hate Angel's voiceover. It's cheesy and unnecessary and it just takes me out of every scene where they use it. It's no like dude standing there staring isn't creepy enough on it's own.

  36. Karen says:

    I’m sure a lot of people are going to be talking about Jenny and Giles/Jenny in their comments today, and I will too. But first I want to discuss the Buffy/Giles relationship because I think this episode is really key for them. I think this episode makes it pretty clear that Giles was not so much angry with Jenny as he was backing up Buffy when she needed him because Giles tells Jenny that he’s not the one she has to make it up to. And then even though Buffy is still clearly hurt about what Jenny did, she cares more about Giles happiness and doesn’t want him to be lonely so she tells Jenny that Giles misses her. Then at the end Buffy saves Giles from his attempt at getting revenge. “you can’ leave me. I can’t do this alone” she cries as she clings to Giles. Buffy needs her Watcher, but more than that, she needs GILES. It’s fitting that it’s just Buffy and Giles at Jenny’s grave at the end. Now Giles is the one who needs Buffy.

    Angel watching Buffy sleep is so Edward/Bella to me, BUT AT LEAST THIS SHOW IS LIKE “YES THIS IS CREEPY AND BAD”. And the way he leaves sketches of Buffy and Joyce and Jenny? SO SKEEVY IN A REALLY CREATIVE WAY. Angel is trying really hard to provoke a reaction from Buffy and by the end of the episode Angel getting to Buffy has worked. But not like he wanted. Buffy is ready to kill Angel now. If she didn’t have to rescue Giles from the fire, she would have killed Angel in that warehouse, I think.

    And Jenny, poor Jenny. The show needed to establish just how bad Angel is and the show had to do that by killing someone that the audience cared about and Jenny was the logical choice. The main three and Giles were off limits and Coredelia might not incur the sympathy in universe or out of universe that the show wanted. So Jenny it is.

    Anyway, this episode gives you hope with the reconciliation between Giles and Jenny. Jenny gets to explain herself and Giles listens and seems willing to forgive. Then later in the episode they makes plans to meet up at Giles’s house. OH BUT THEN. BUT THEN. THEN ANGEL SHOWS UP AND YOU JUST KNOW NOTHING IS GOING TO BE HAPPY EVER AGAIN. The way that Angel sets up Jenny’s body for Giles to find is just cruel. Angel really does have a knack for messing with people. Oh and the way that Angel creeps outside of Buffy’s house so he can see the effect that Jenny’s death is having. AND THE WAY HE SMILES.

    Joyce and Buffy’s sex talk isn’t perfect but it does show how much Joyce loves her daughter. I think Joyce is really scared for her daughter. From what she knows Angel is a older guy who is really unbalanced and aggressive. She just had a pretty scary run in with Angel, so I think it makes sense that Joyce is really scared for her daughter her. Joyce loves Buffy and wants to keep her safe.


    • Mez says:

      …possibly the same universe where teachers take one look at the job ads, see "Sunnydale", and forget about applying in case they get eaten? 🙂

    • Carrie Ann says:

      Love your points about Giles and Buffy. If it's possible to ship people in a non-romantic way, then I ship Buffy and Giles. By that I mean: their relationship is the most believable and important one on the show, to me, and I would sacrifice their relationships with anyone else in order to be sure they're OK with each other. That's why I love how Giles and Buffy both handle their conversations with Jenny here – they each put the other's feelings ahead of their own. I just love where they are with each other right now.

    • cait0716 says:

      In my senior year of high school, my principal and our AP physics teacher had a bit of a falling out and she fired him (for completely unfounded reasons and basically on a whim). Since none of our other teachers knew calculus well enough to teach physics, I got nominated to teach the class. I did it to the best of my ability, but we still all failed the AP exam. This is what happens when schools have tiny budgets.

      • etherealclarity says:

        Wow. I had no idea that this had any base in reality whatsoever.

        Apparently I overestimated the public school system. I didn't think that was possible.

        • cait0716 says:

          Well if it helps the principal got fired the next year.

          But yeah, I can totally see this happening in a school like Sunnydale. It must be nearly impossible to find a replacement teacher and if the principal thinks a student is smart enough, well, then you get to pay them in extra credit.

    • Kari18212 says:

      Love all your thoughts on the Buffy/Giles relationship, which I love. Another moment I thought was cool (after many rewatchings, since the first few times I was pretty focused on how sad I was about Jenny) was when Angelus says 'Are you just gonna let your old man burn?' since generally that's a term for your father. And at this point, since he's so much more involved with her daily life, Giles is pretty much her dad. And I love that idea, because I love the whole idea of 'found family.' Anyway, just wanted to throw out another good moment about their relationship.

    • queenie says:

      I don't know. I always cry at jenny's death, but I would have been way more upset if it had been Cordelia.

      and it's not a perfect example, but one of the teachers at the studio I dance at was injured in a car accident, and since I'm the oldest, most advanced student I got chosen to teach two of her classes.

  37. sixth_queen says:

    I rarely say things to the TV, but Buffy's "Angel is gone and there's no bringing him back" voiced over the sight of that brave little yellow floppy disk falling behind the desk had me screaming the house down.

  38. beckaboomer says:

    This episode makes me have all the sads. 🙁

    Honestly, seeing Angelus just snap Jenny's neck like that, having it be so callous and cruel.. I don't really have the words. It's horrible.

    Kudos to the performers and writers of "Passion," especially ASH (OH GILES, WITH YOUR BASEBALL BAT, I LOVE YOU SO) and SMG. You can tell by every expression on her face that Buffy feels so guilty about Jenny's death. She hesitated in killing Angelus, and this is what happened. I don't blame Buffy for this situation, and I always hate that part where Xander says, "I told you so." Not because he is entirely wrong, exactly, but because all of them are so angry and sad and hurting already. It's difficult to watch characters I care about suffer like that.

    ..I should have more to say, but honestly this episode makes me so sad I think I'll leave it at that for today. I'm gonna go hug my cats now.

    • t09yavosaur says:

      I love that one of Giles' "good weapons" was the baseball bat, but it scares me a bit as well. A bat, flaming or not, is not a killing (quickly) weapon and it hints at the brutal part of Giles.

  39. arctic_hare says:

    I can't.

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    You now understand what kind of terrible sadness and foreknowledge I held inside whenever all you Buffy newbies posted about your love for Jenny, about shipping her and Giles, etc. I'd always remember that this episode was coming and want to cry. Because I knew it'd break so many hearts. 🙁 Just as it does mine.

    Other stuff:

    – Okay, I hate to bring up Twilight again, but I really can't help but think that Meyer saw this scene of Angelus in Buffy's room while she sleeps and took completely the wrong message away from it.

    – omg Willow's fish 🙁 🙁 🙁

    – Ew, Xander. That comment would be inappropriate enough even without the context of your two friends being terrified for their lives. As it is, it just adds an extra layer of fail.

    – Oh, Buffy. 🙁 You are so going to regret that conversation being your last one with her.

    – Um, Angelus, the monitor is not the computer…

    – Refer to sad gifs above. Also, hearing Willow crying is an added knife in the gut. Nothing is beautiful and everything hurts. It's a fantastic episode, but I don't tend to rewatch often because PAIN AND SADNESS.

    – Guess what, Xander?

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    Not only is it not helpful in the slightest to say "I told you so", but your hatred of Angel was at least partly based on your jealousy that Buffy chose him to date instead of you. Not to mention shaming Buffy for not being emotionally ready to do something that will be traumatic for her, not cool.

    – Buffy and Giles' last scenes together in the episode break me. 🙁

    – Rot13 just in case: "Qngn Erpbirel" ba gur punyxobneq whfg orsber gur qvfx snyyf vagb gur fcnpr orgjrra gur qrfx naq gur furys. Avpr gbhpu.

    • beckaboomer says:

      That first gif! Okay, now I'm listening to "When She Loved Me" and crying again. ;_;

    • etherealclarity says:

      "Um, Angelus, the monitor is not the computer… "

      I don't recall… did she have a Mac? Was it identifiable? I used to have a Mac back in the day (about when this aired, actually) and the monitor and computer were all one piece.

      • Mauve_Avenger says:

        I'm pretty sure Jenny had the computer on the desk directly underneath the monitor, because I definitely remember two separate pieces of equipment hitting the floor in that scene. I'm thinking that only the monitor actually caught on fire, though.
        <img src=""&gt;
        <img src=""&gt;

      • NB2000 says:

        There's definitely a hard drive under the monitor, it looks like Angel knocks that on to the floor as well but it lands a few inches away from the monitor and isn't the bit that's on fire.

      • maccyAkaMatthew says:

        Just watched again and, even though she seems to have a Mac desktop, there's a separate monitor and computer (they did exist around then, the all-in-ones were a few years earlier, in the main, I think). However, the monitor is on top of the computer and Angel pulls both off the desk, before they catch fire, conveniently.

    • Karen says:



    • rabbitape says:

      Much love for all your gifs, but especially Willy Wonka. I wanted to punch my TV at "I told you so."

    • notemily says:

      Not only is it not helpful in the slightest to say "I told you so", but your hatred of Angel was at least partly based on your jealousy that Buffy chose him to date instead of you. Not to mention shaming Buffy for not being emotionally ready to do something that will be traumatic for her, not cool.

      RIGHT. I want to punch Xander for saying this.

    • misterbernie says:

      Also, hearing Willow crying is an added knife in the gut.
      AH has the best sad face ever.

      Rira vs Jvyybj vf nofbyhgryl va gur jebat vg trgf gb zr nyy gur gvzr.

  40. ivorychopsticks says:

    And now we really see why Spike, for all his charisma, is a minion. Angelus isn't in it for the murder and mayhem, he's in it for the pain. He's a masterclass in evil. And we get to see what Angel meant when he said he "offered ugly death to everyone [he] met, and [he] did it with a song in [his] heart." And it's so terrifying. So so terrifying and horrific.

    Not so easy to forgive, in retrospect.

    • spikesjojo says:

      I wouldn't call him a minion – that's more like all the nameless vamps who hang out doing whatever they are ordered to do. What Spike is – IMHO – is a very pissed off vampire confined to a wheel chair and unable to attack Angel with any chance of winning. The show has already stated that Angel took pleasure in psychological torture (Dru being his worst, according to Angel). Spike says 'he's not much for the pre-show'. He seems to enjoy the fighting, the power, and the kill. I don't think he's shown the patience for torture.

      OGJ – gur snaba anzrf sbe gurve eryngvbafuvc jbhyq or Fver (gur bar jub perngrf n inzcver) naq puvyqr. Pnyyvat Fcvxr "zl obl" fubjf gung Natry vf uvf fver (be tenaqfver). Wbff yngre unf fbzr fubjf gung vaqvpngr Qeh jnf Fcvxr'f fver. Rvgure jnl, ur vf abg n zvavba. Zvavbaf ner onfvpnyyl qvfcbfnoyr.

      • Dru says:

        I agree, not a minion at all, and capable of some VERY dangerous lashing-out if Angelus continues to test his patience.

        • spikesjojo says:

          Yeah – slowly watching pain turn to anger. These to know how to push each others buttons. And, as Spike said, he won't be in the wheelchair forever.

    • Beth says:

      Spike is not a minion. He is a Master Vampire in his own right, he's killed 2 slayers. Something Angel has never done.

    • @Ivana2804 says:

      He's not a minion, as noticed below, and besides, it is not clear at all if Angelus would have been the leader if Spike hadn't been in the wheelchair. They keep clashing over what should be done and over leadership styles, but Spike currently isn't in position to do anything about it. It's not like Angel's way of doing things is "more vampirey" or anything. Most vampires just seem to want to feed and kill, not conduct complicated psychological torment schemes.

  41. cait0716 says:

    The thing about Buffy is that every now and then an episode is perfect.

    This is when it tends to hurt the most.

  42. Scottish Eddie says:

    I really love this episode soooooo much. Surprise and Innocence were fantastic but this is just better story telling in my opinion. Arrggh! I was broken when I saw this back in the day.

  43. Hanna says:

    Man, every time I watch this, the part with Giles going to his apartment and discovering Jenny's body kills me. Other parts of the episode may lose their shock value, but that part just . . . god.

  44. stellaaaaakris says:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. NONONONONONONONONONONONONO. I knew something bad would happen because whenever somebody who watched the show and talked about how much they liked Jenny, rot13 would be following after. Also, Joss Whedon. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    I've been kinda missing from the last few reviews because I haven't had time to watch. I chose to marathon the episodes this weekend. I know Angel is a show which obvious stars Angel. It never occurred to me that his character's arc, however long it is – I don't know when Angel crosses paths with BtVS – could be about regaining his soul or becoming less of a villain. I just figured we'd always see him as that brooding puppy dog trailing after Buffy. This presents very interesting possibilities – not that I know what the plan is, I'm very much in the dark. All I know about the spinoff is what the photo on Netflix tells me, which is not much. So I figured that's what was going to happen. But then Jenny was trying to fix her mistakes and was being all cute with Giles again and she actually figured out how to get Angel's soul back! And then my reaction above happened. 🙁 All the creys in all the world.

    But until that very last moment in the episode, I kept thinking, "Floppy disc. The instructions are there. Willow, FIND IT." And then…boom. Onto the floor. There goes my hope and her death was for nothing. Jenny. :'(

    • notemily says:

      Wow, the Netflix photo is kind of a big spoiler for at least one thing.

      • UnstrungZero says:

        I got spoiled for Dexter by a promo photo with a download. >.< PEOPLE NEED TO CHOOSE MORE CAREFULLY.

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        Netflix spoils me for everything. The picture for BSG told me so much. After watching the miniseries, I just stared at the art for a while, wondering why does a non-Chief guy have his arm around Boomer? Who's that guy Starbuck is leaning against? Who's the guy in the suit – is that Lee or Billy? Who's that blonde girl all the way on the left? (I was still wondering that after the fourth season was over, but it was explained to me here.)

        Now I actively try not to look at the Netflix pictures, but I can't always help it – and that one of Angel is kinda hard to overlook.

    • I knew something bad would happen because whenever somebody who watched the show and talked about how much they liked Jenny, rot13 would be following after.
      Ha, I always wondered how obvious we were all being. I mean, in fairness, there are many possible things that we could have been talking about, like, perhaps how great Jenny is in future episodes!

      But until that very last moment in the episode, I kept thinking, "Floppy disc. The instructions are there. Willow, FIND IT." And then…boom. Onto the floor. There goes my hope and her death was for nothing. Jenny. :'(
      I knoooooooow. Gah. It is such a fantastic set of circumstances, so beautifully constructed to be as awful as possible, yet totally plausible. So many little bits have been leading up to all that happens in this episode.

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        Yes, you definitely could have. For all I knew, you could have been talking about the clunky shoes she was wearing at her wedding to Giles. But this is Joss Whedon we're talking about. I learned my lesson from Firefly since I was sobbing for about 20 minutes during Serenity. Even if this were BSG again, I might have had a ray of hope. But it's the Whedon universe, and I feel physically anxious and worried for my favorite characters.

  45. haguenite says:

    Passion, how do I love and loathe* you, let me count the ways!

    – Angel: the original Watches You While You Sleep vampire. SMeyer, eat your heart out. This episode shows just how very disturbing this trope (can we call it a trope yet?) is. I KNEW you'd love that.

    – I love that some students actually come in to use the library AS A LIBRARY. Because, you know, it is. I also love Xander’s overreaction, because obviously they’re not used to random people coming in there.

    – JENNY/GILES! Finally starting to reconcile and Jenny working so hard to get back in Giles and Buffy’s good books. And Giles telling Jenny he’s not the one he has to make it up to. HE UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING SO WELL AND IS SO LOVELY IN EVERY WAY.

    – OH GOD WILLOW’S FISH. In an episode of creepy things, this one is scoring quite high on the list, actually. You see the scene and you go, “hey Willow, why are you putting fish in an empty tank?” and then you see her with the envelope and you’re all “NO FRAKKING WAY” and then everything is just so terrible because poor Willow, right? But yes, good thing she never got that puppy.

    – Damn Joyce, you need to be there for your daughter right now. I mean, yes, I love that The Talk ends on a positive, I love you more than anything note, but the whole poor judgment thing? Even without knowing that he’s a vampire, it’s pretty clear that Angel has done a real number on Buffy’s head and now is not to the time to scold her for her decisions. But, you know, even Joyce is human and I guess it would be a bit of a slap in the face to have this all dropped on you. She gets herself under control soon enough.

    – AND THEN THAT SCENE THAT CRUSHED THE SOULS OF EVERY BUFFY WATCHER EVER OH SWEET JESUS JOSS HOW DO YOU THINK OF SUCH EVIL THINGS? I mean, there have been so many “I was not prepared for this” moments already, but they never went beyond the impact of “Angel snaps Jenny’s neck.” Which is terrible, obviously, but I feel like by now you’re sort of getting used that these things happen on Buffy? So they’re terrible and sad and you’re weeping into your cat’s fur, but they’re also par for the course. And then this happens, this elaborate romantic scene in which Giles finds the woman he’s in love with DEAD IN HIS BED when he expected to find her very much alive and looking forward to reconciliation and HE’S BEEN SO LONELY AND BUFFY DOESN’T WANT HIM TO BE LONELY AND EVERYTHING WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BEAUTIFUL, JOSS. HOW DARE YOU? It’s really no wonder that Giles decides to go after Angel, but it is bloody effing stupid. Because he may be lonely but he’s not ALONE and Buffy NEEDS HIM, DAMMIT.

    I have so many capslocky feelings about this episode. It’s one of my favorites, perhaps THE favorite from the earlier seasons at least. So much happens yet it never feels rushed. In fact, with the amount of tension in this episode, it often feels painfully slow. Oh, my feelings!

    *Because it breaks my heart in so many ways, not because it’s a bad episode.

  46. Sophi says:

    I put "Passion" into Bad Translator

    and the end result was Murder


  47. 00guera00 says:

    The first time I saw this episode I couldn't believe they actually killed Jenny off. I was sure there was going to be some kind of last minute save or something, but nope 🙁

    Gurer'f ernyyl n cnggrea jvgu Wbff naq eryngvbafuvcf. N pbhcyr trgf gbtrgure, gurl oernx hc, trg gbtrgure, naq gura bar bs gurz qvrf 🙁 Naln naq Knaqre, Jvyybj naq Gnen, uryy rira Fcvxr naq Ohssl gb na rkgrag. Naq lrg, jr snyy sbe vg rirel gvzr!

  48. LucyGoosey says:

    Gur svefg Jurqba qrngu gb npghnyyl uvg lbh nyjnlf fhpxf. V jnf fcbvyrq sbe Wraal, naq Wblpr, naq Gnen, naq Naln. Gur fnzr sbe Qblyr, Serq, naq Jnfu. Craal jbhyq unir orra zl svefg, ohg V ernq fcbvyref jura Npg 3 jrag hc. Fb V jngpurq Qbyyubhfr svefg eha, naq tbg uvg ol sbhe va n ebj.

    And it sucks royally, because Jenny was a wonderful character, one of several useful adults in a type of show that so often lives by the Adults are Useless mantra.

    And I know its probably petty, but a good old fashioned laugh at Twilight's expense is always welcome from me, even if its in retrospect. Smeyer, what were you thinking.

  49. maccyAkaMatthew says:

    From what I can gather from an internet search* Ty King, who wrote this and "Some Assembly Required" was also known as David Tyron King and worked on lots of TV series before retiring in 1994. Joss Whedon had worked with him on "Parenthood" in 1992 and lured him out of retirement to write for season two of Buffy.

    Effectively, then, this is his swansong. For all the Joss will have come up with a lot of the storyline and probably done a final draft of the script, I can't help but think that the construction of this shows a lifetime of TV writing craft.

    *link: – relevant comments start at around four down, and are spoilery for future episode titles.

  50. arctic_hare says:

    Okay, I think we all need this.

    The Hug Gif Thread

    Pretty self-explanatory. I'll start us off.

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

  51. brandy says:

    As much as I liked Jenny, I think the moment her neck snapped was the moment I got truly hooked on the show. In general, mid-s2 was really gelling nicely for me with a string of great episodes, but suddenly this became one of THOSE shows. One of those shows where no one is safe and the writers won't protect the audience from the logical consequences of the plot lines. I hadn't really been expecting it to be that kind of show, tbh.

  52. notemily says:


    – I'm not sure why Angel is narrating this episode, but okay.
    – Buffy goes to bed with a ton of makeup and really awful hair
    – My roommate at this point said "See? This is what a vampire sneaking into your room to watch you sleep SHOULD be like!" As in, CREEPY AS FUCK, not romantic.
    – Angel's an artist? Well, I guess he's had 200 years to hone his sketching skills.
    – [Wbanguna!]
    – Willow gets to teach computer class!
    – Jenny loves yooooou Giles
    – I like this conversation with Buffy and her mom because it continues the metaphor from "Innocence." "He's changed. He's not the same guy you fell for." Yeah, pretty much.
    – Surprise, Willow, your fish are dead! YOU INVITED ANGEL IN TOO NOEWS
    – Oh god Buffy your hair is so awful
    – Now I'm cracking up imagining Angel going to the office supply store to get all those envelopes and drawing-paper.
    – Oh no, an actual puppy! Please don't eat the puppy guys
    – Dru "changes" Spike like a child? Do vampires… poop?
    – Maybe they pee blood. Oh god, do they pee blood?
    – "Oh, you're in the trade!" Hee hee, I like the magic shop owner's immediate change of demeanor. And then he's all nice, making us like him so we will be sad when he's dead later. "I don't like computers. They give me the willies."
    – Poor Willow DOESN'T get to teach computer class, hee
    – [Knaqre'f Fabbcl qnapr!]
    – "Sorry Angel. Changed the locks." SNAP
    – Noooo Jenny will never get to stop by Giles's house 🙁 🙁 🙁
    – Jenny, your program better be more advanced than Babelfish, because…
    – What can I even say. Angel killed Jenny. 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
    – Joyce has to deal with Buffy having the sex. Personally I don't think her sex life is Joyce's business… but that's just me. I think you send your kids out into the world with all the knowledge about consent and safer sex you can give them, and then it's up to them, unless they come to you for help in which case you are completely right in giving them advice.
    – I do love the "Well, I guess that was the talk." "So how'd it go?" "I don't know, it was my first" exchange though. I love seeing Joyce struggle with parenting Buffy and NOT HIDING IT. She doesn't present a perfect facade of ~parenting certainty~ to Buffy, and I love her for that.
    – And now we have the saddest scene in the history of television. Because Joss hasn't destroyed us enough yet this season.
    – Xander, shut up. Seriously, you hated Angel before it was cool? That's your best defense?
    – PUNCH! Buffy loves Giles so much 🙁 🙁 CRYING
    – OK so her tombstone says Jennifer Calendar. WHY. Also I hate when people die on shows and the only people at their funerals are people we know from the show. I mean, this wasn't a funeral, just a tombstone shot, but still, you'd think she would have gone back to her family to be buried (or cremated or whatever).
    – Willow teaches the saddest computer class 🙁

    • Seventh_Star says:

      your musings on vampire waste products are making me laugh so much that my sides hurt.

      • TrampyMcBitca says:

        I remember a Stephen King short story (Night Flier?) that has a guy see a vampire peeing blood in an airport bathroom. He actually doesn't see the vampire because he's looking in the mirror, he just see the stream of blood hitting the urinal.

    • Raenef_the_5th says:

      – Xander, shut up. Seriously, you hated Angel before it was cool? That's your best defense?

      It's all clear to me now, Xander is a HIPSTER.

    • UnstrungZero says:

      I love seeing Joyce struggle with parenting Buffy and NOT HIDING IT. She doesn't present a perfect facade of ~parenting certainty~ to Buffy, and I love her for that.

      That's one thing I've always loved about Joyce. I haven't been rewatching with Mark, (though I plan to start with S3, 3×01 is the only ep I've only ever seen once), but if I remember correctly, she even talks to Buffy about what the parenting books say in the first season. She has total transparency with Buffy in regards to parenting, like her "I can't understand you because I'm not 16" thing in S1. Not enough parents TELL their kids why they do and say the things they do. Joyce is a fantastic Mom. &hearts;

    • Danny_SAP says:

      I love that the computer program is called Translator Pro… complete with awful 90s GUI. (BUTTONS THAT YOU CAN'T TAB TO!)

    • RoseFyre says:

      Wbanguna! Win! 😀

      And Buffy's sex life isn't Joyce's business…but I can't blame Joyce for feeling out of touch that Buffy was having sex with someone Joyce didn't even know she was dating. Yes, it's Buffy's right, but, if you're hiding a relationship from a parent…that doesn't speak to a healthy relationship, and I think Joyce is seeing that they're lacking that, and that's part of her problem.

      And the tombstone! Seriously, didn't her family, like, want her body back? Because, I mean, I would. And unless she legally changed her name, her tombstone should say Janna Kalderash…or however it's properly spelled, I could be wrong.

  53. I can't even comment….. :'(
    This episode is when you realize that you're really going to live through hell now that you're immersed in the Buffyverse…

    Just two words : Joss Whedon.

    Angelus: "It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank… Without passion, we'd be truly dead."

  54. @sesinkhorn says:

    Man, I know, Dru and Sunshine are the ABSOLUTE BEST. And I have to give a nod to the callback to the early episodes when Dru and Spike's relationship roles were reversed — "You need to eat something to keep your strength up." Here she is, mollycoddling Spike the way he did to her, but it feels a lot more… mocking and less endearing coming from her. I think it's the way she pretty much disregards Spike's feelings when Angel's being a COMPLETE ASSFACE to him.

    God, this episode. This was my first television experience as a teen where I saw this and realized that no, sometimes NOTHING IS OKAY. Sometimes characters suffer and there's nothing for it. No happy ending. I honestly think realizing this — realizing that a writer could take such big, emotional risks — really influenced my own writing. JENNY AND GILES WHY OH GOD CRUSHED FOREVER. The look on his FACE. :((((((

    The fight scene with Buddy/Angel in this episode was well done, I thought. They did that one long shot that was pretty amazing. I wonder how many takes that took.

    And Giles, you ABSOLUTE, CERTIFIED BADASS. Strolls in like it ain't no thang, lights a bat on fire, and commences wailing. YOU ARE AMAZING, SIR.

    Buffy/Giles hug where she tells him she can't do this without him… ALL OF MY TEARS.

    I felt like Joyce's "talk" with her daughter was well balanced between upset/concerned parent and establishing that she's not ANGRY at Buffy. She LOVES her and wants her to remain safe and her heart to remain unbroken.

    Watching Buffy and Willow break down when they hear about Jenny while Angel watches and smirks kills me. So horrible.


    • @sesinkhorn says:

      LOL BUDDY of course I meant Buffy.

    • @Ivana2804 says:

      "Man, I know, Dru and Sunshine are the ABSOLUTE BEST. And I have to give a nod to the callback to the early episodes when Dru and Spike's relationship roles were reversed — "You need to eat something to keep your strength up." Here she is, mollycoddling Spike the way he did to her, but it feels a lot more… mocking and less endearing coming from her. I think it's the way she pretty much disregards Spike's feelings when Angel's being a COMPLETE ASSFACE to him. "

      Yeah… after we've seen how devoted Spike was to Drusilla, we see Drusilla isn't nearly as devoted to… well, anyone, really. She's a bit like a self-centered child. Notice also how she makes a feeble gesture to go and help Angelus against Giles, but changes her mind immediately when Spike says “No fair going to the ring unless he tags you first” and then when Buffy, the Slayer comes in… Dru takes no time and quickly leaves the scene, wheeling Spike away.

      It's what I always remember when I see some fans claiming that the problem with the Spike/Dru relationship was that she loved Angelus more so that's why she couldn't be faithful and devoted to Spike. Nope – it's got nothing to do with who she loves more (which I'm not sure of and I don't think she ever bothered herself with such questions) – she is just like that.

  55. Fiona says:

    I can still remember watching this for the first time. I must have been about nine (why the hell did my mum let me watch it?? Although I will always be grateful for that) at the time. Jenny's death was the first TV character's death that really affected me and I still can't watch it without starting to sob. Saying that, this is still one of my favourite episodes. The way that everything comes together and how the earlier moments become incredibly tragic when you watch it again (so much foreshadowing) always stick in my mind. Plus it really does cement Buffy and Giles' relationship as she's the only person he's got close to him now.

    Anyone read the latest comics too? There's a whole new layer of evil if you have. WHEDON!!! *shakes fist*

  56. enigmaticagentscully says:

    Willow teaching the class at the end just broke me.

    Sorry, sorry, I just keep remembering parts of the episode…

  57. Tat says:

    Is it wrong that since you expressed relief in Dark Age about Jenny surviving I've been giggling and wringing my hands in anticipation of this review? It is. I'm a horrible person. I'll be hanging out with the villains in the factory from now on.

  58. guest_age says:

    This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire series and indeed of anything ever. Every single person involved in the production was on their game and you can see it in the smallest of details. (As a side note, I can now finally say un-Rot13'd that I never appreciate David's acting more than when he's playing Angelus: he just takes giddy evil to a whole new level.)

    The scene where Giles finds Jenny's body is legit one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen on television, and watching Willow break down never fails to hurt me. Alyson Hannigan crying is like instant waterworks for me.

    Also, I just really love that opening and closing monologue.

    (I also love that he snaps Jenny's neck: he doesn't even drink her blood. He's a VAMPIRE and he's so contemptuous of her that he doesn't even bother to drain her. She's literally not even worth being his lunch. *shudder*)

    • Jae says:

      I never appreciate David's acting more than when he's playing Angelus

      Well, that and fvatvat xnenbxr. Orfg cneg bs gur fcvabss sbe fher. 😉

  59. cemeterybaby says:

    For anyone who needs a pick me up after this episode, go back and watch the scene with Angelus and Joyce again, and watch David Boreanaz attempt to pick up oranges and lob one right out of the frame!

    • arctic_hare says:

      LOL that is always super distracting to me in that scene, it's so inappropriately hilarious.

    • Inseriousity. says:

      LOL ikr! and joyce is like -looks back- 'hey i was gonna eat those'

    • sixth_queen says:

      From watching Passion, I'm guessing that David Boreznaz must have played baseball in high school. Watch Angelus hurl that Orb of Thessula at the chalkboard. He looks like a major league shortstop. It's not a fluke — David also expertly throws stuff in Ybiref Jnyx, frnfba guerr, and fjvatf n onfronyy ong naq xabpxf bhg Snvgu in a later episode too.

  60. Zoli says:

    My first episode of Buffy was from Season 5, and as I couldn't remember seeing Jenny around I knew as soon as she appeared that she was probably going to die horribly (see also: Joss Whedon Rule #1: No One Is Allowed to be Happy). So I didn't let myself get too attached, but I still really did love Jenny Calendar.

    Even so, I was taken aback by just how abruptly she was killed off. She doesn't get to fight, she's just killed. Just like that. D: Not cool.

    However, I do get kind of irritated when I think about this episode knowing what happens, mostly for how completely UN-genre savvy everyone is. Guys! Your Friendly Neighborhood Vampire just went evil! You know he was a vicious, sadistic bastard before he got his soul! Find a spell to bar him from your house again immediately! Surely one must exist! Failing that, why isn't everyone carrying stakes and weapons at all times?

    (This annoys me at other times, but especially here when they know Angelus is on the loose and looking to hurt them.)

    But of course, they don't. And everything is awful because of it. ):

    Unrelated to plot, I must also lol at Angel committing a classic TV/movie error: when "destroying" the computer, all he does is smash the monitor. Of course I don't expect the show to acknowledge this (ie, that Jenny's ritual program should be totally accessible on the tower, not just the fallen floppy) because by TV standards the computer IS "destroyed" but it did make me laugh.

  61. robin_comments says:

    Opens with Angel's POV and then gives us a follow up POV in their weakest moment, putting him in control, emphasizing his dominance in this episode. This is the episode where the bad guy wins.

    Another interesting thing about the opening is how content everyone looks – we see Xander and Buffy dancing happily with each other as relaxed friends, while Cordelia and Willow can be glimpsed in the background actually sitting down and having a friendly conversation together. And then everyone leaves for home all comfy and cheerful. And completely oblivious to the evil that is lurking in the dark right beside them. (Kind of like they've still retained a bit of their innocence and are completely unprepared for Angel's actions in the episode.)

    Angel now coming into Buffy's bedroom at night has turned EVEN CREEPIER THAN EDWARD CULLEN. AAAAAAAAAAAH. I cannot even imagine waking up to that. asdflandtew;we;ro

    Ok, Xander choosing THAT MOMENT for his "valuable lesson about inviting strange men into your bedrooms?" Super tacky and gross. However, this exchange is seriously a laugh out loud moment for me:
    "oh god, I invited him in my car once. That means he can come into my car whenever he wants."
    "yep, you're doomed to be having to give him and his vamp pals a lift whenever they feel like it. And those guys never chip in for gas."

    And "This is a school library, Xander" "Since when?" Ah, meta humor. Sometimes, just sometimes, it is THE BEST.

    I like how they turn around Giles' speech about how Buffy can't let Angel control her actions by emotion, no matter how provocative he becomes, by having HIM be the one who completely loses control in the episode end.

    LOL at the Cyber Space banner in Jenny's classroom.

    Nice foreshadowing by having Jenny ask Willow to take over the class if she doesn't show.

    "I know you feel betrayed."
    "Well, that's one of the unpleasant side affects of betrayal."

    And then we go from genius one-liner to me just wanting to cryyyyyyyyy "I just want so badly to be right to you. It's just so SAD you guys, because then she dies and stuff. Before they ever truly get to make up properly and she can know for sure that she was forgiven. ;_;


    • robin_comments says:

      The way that Buffy and Willow can be convinced that Angel's actions are simply because he's trying to "get you to do something stupid" is a display of their lingering innocence for me. Angel is doing these things because he enjoys psychological torture, because he wants to start the games by making Buffy feel paranoid, hunted, constantly watched and violated – probably how he started with Drusilla. He wants to break Buffy completely, not simply affect her ability as a Slayer. I think Giles well understands Angel's actions, but he doesn't want to disquiet Buffy even more than she already is. Downplaying it was the right approach, because taking away the fear from Angel's actions also takes away their power.

      Tensions are up at Casa Vampire! Spike is not enjoying the confined, dependent life, Angel does not play well with others, and Spike has no appreciation for his methods.

      One of the effective things about this episode is how it sets up the viewer's expectations. Any unspoiled viewer is going to expect that Jenny is going to successfully re-soul Angel after that magic shop scene, and of course that's not at all how things go down. Especially with Buffy's triumphant moment about "changing the locks".


      We can also see with this episode how Drusilla's psychic powers truly do make her a dangerous foe. She's the only reason why Jenny didn't end up winning the day.

      It was an interesting choice not to kill Jenny like a typical BtVS vampire would – breaks her neck instead of drinking her blood. Makes it feel even more like a murder. And letting her run for it makes the viewer feel for sure like she's going to escape or be rescued.

      I can't even talk about Angel's set up in Giles' house. Other than to say that it's an absolutely brilliant scene.
      And yet I remember that it wasn't until the phone call to Buffy and Willow that I was really hit by the death and moved.

      Buffy embracing Giles after the attack on Angel is the next most affecting scene for me in the episode. I'm just really invested in their relationship and it was very well done.

    • RoseFyre says:

      "And "This is a school library, Xander" "Since when?" Ah, meta humor. Sometimes, just sometimes, it is THE BEST."

      Fifth time in the series that anyone has actually *gasp* come into the library looking for a book. Of course, every single time is plot-related…we have Buffy in WttH, so Giles can give her the VAMPYRES book, Xander also in WttH so he can overhear the conversation about vampires, Owen in Never Kill a Boy on the First Date so Buffy can expound on her crush on him, Cordelia in The Dark Age so someone can see Giles dealing with the police, and now this – kind of as an impetus to leave the library.

      • robin_comments says:

        Wait, so before Jonathan there's just Owen?! (other than future Scooby Gang individuals) When you really think about it, that's hilariously few people coming to use the facilities. LOL.

        • RoseFyre says:

          As far as I can remember, yes! And most of the time, the Scooby Gang isn't actually there for, you know, the books. It took me a minute to remember that that was why Buffy was even there in the first place in WttH. *looks at episode list* Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's complete, though if anyone thinks of any other time, please let me know!

        • RoseFyre says:

          And now that I think about it, Owen's the only one of those five who actually finds the book he's looking for.

          Clearly, coming into the library to find a book is only to be used as a plot device, not as an actual thing that happens.

          • robin_comments says:

            Well, you know, I can see how that would be useful. Maybe Giles organizes the library to be completely unhelpful in every way, so that students have no good reason to ever enter their Super Secret Hideout. 😉

  62. core013 says:

    This is definitely in my top 10, maybe even top 5 favorite episodes of BtVS. So many emotions and all so powerful.

  63. Fuchsia says:

    This is one episode that hits really close to home for me. That whole ex-boyfriend stalker thing? Yeah, I've had the unfortunate experience of going through that after I broke up with a guy [not to mention that, during our relationship, he raped me]. Pretty much everything short of killing people. I woke up one day to find him standing over me, in my bedroom, at my mom's house. When I moved two hours and a state away, he repeatedly drove out there to where I was working to follow me around at work and, when security banned him from the store [as I sat in the security office watching the monitors and crying for hours], he resorted to sitting out in the parking lot and leaving me notes on my car. I never felt safe coming to or leaving work, and I lived that year in complete paranoia. In addition to that, he started driving by my mom's house on weekends to see if I was visiting home [I eventually had to leave my car at a neighbor's], and visiting my mom at her work. My mom was frightened as well, there are only two other employees at her work at a time if she's lucky, sometimes she's alone [she's a librarian in a very small town] but thankfully he never came in while she was alone and she could hide in the basement while her coworker dealt with him.

    Eventually, I felt the only way I could get away from him was to move halfway across the country, and I started going by a different name. To this day, you still can't find me by my legal name anywhere on the internet, I've adopted this new identity so much. I lived in Chicago for four years and still, I would get panic attacks while riding the train because I thought someone looked like him. This happened multiple times, and I would actually text my friend [who knew the whole history] worry-filled messages, asking her to make sure I got home in ten minutes, etc. And now I'm back on the east coast, actually living only a couple miles from where he lived and I have to bike through his neighborhood every time I go to the city. The fear isn't as crippling anymore, but it never leaves my mind.

    So, yeah. I completely relate to what Buffy's going through here. It's something I never want to experience again.

    • Meltha says:

      That's terrible! But you've been strong enough to get through it, and that should make you proud.

    • notemily says:

      oh god that's like my worst nightmare. *shudder* I'm so sorry you had to go through that, and that you still have that fear following you around. *virtualhugs*

      • Fuchsia says:

        it really was a nightmare. thanks. i probably shouldn't be so worried anymore since i haven't heard from him since i moved away four and a half years ago, but considering i learned that he was obsessed with his previous ex for more than seven years until he met me… yeah, not exactly resting easy.

    • Oh, god, I'm so sorry. That's an absolute worst nightmare. All of my hugs across the astral plane, because that's absolutely horrific and I'm so sorry you had to live through that.

  64. anonymouse says:

    This episode is always very difficult for me to watch. TRIGGER WARNING: I'll be discussing some difficult material in this comment, including emotional abuse, gross parental negligence, threats made by a family member, attempted violence by a family member, and mental illness.

    When I was 11, my mother asked my father for a divorce. My father did not take this well. He had some long untreated mental health issues that exacerbated the problem. He moved out immediately, but for the four months between my mother asking for the divorce and my father being institutionalized, my life was hell. For years, I gave my father credit for never physically harming anyone, but he caused about as much emotional harm as a single person can. He stalked my mother. He broke into the house constantly, and seemed to get back in no matter how many times we changed the locks. He did have some custody rights to me and my brother on the weekends, but he often times didn't return us, or spent the entire time telling us how evil our mother was: how we would have been aborted if it weren't for him, how she didn't love us, how she was sleeping around. Meanwhile, my mother was an absolute saint, reassuring us that our father was sick, that he loved us very much, and insisting that we visit him long after those visits became terrifying.

    It all ended when he kidnapped me and my brother, forced us to listen to tapes (he'd tapped our phones from the basement) of our mother speaking romantically with another man, and drove us to the mall. He'd stolen my mother's car, so she was stranded there along with one of her friends, and he basically coerced her and her friend to get into the car by using my brother and I. He spent the time in the car rambling, making threats, telling my mother he'd "make those kids orphans." Eventually, he stopped at a light near my mom's friend's house, and my mom pulled the two of us out of the car. We ran; he attempted to hit us, and eventually ran into a tree. He fled, and was eventually found on top of a building preparing to jump.

    The next time I saw him, he was in the mental hospital, properly medicated. There was a very long healing process, including about a year when I didn't see him. Again, through it all, my mother insisted that we call him, that we talk to him. For years, I blamed his illness rather than him for what happened. For awhile, I actually blamed my mother–it's amazing how well parents can alienate their children from each other with just a few words. But that fear, of seeing someone you love become this complete and utter monster, to have this person that you trusted implicitly act out so violently. I refuse to call that "passion"; it's obsession, and it can be violent and terrible. I love this episode for portraying so well the kind of terrible thing that happens all too often. It's the same principle that makes The Shining such an effective horror movie; the terror doesn't spring from a haunted hotel or from the big scary vampire, it springs from watching someone you love turn into something terrible, violent, and wrong.

  65. Meltha says:

    You know something, Mark? I don't think you're quite so unprepared after this. I think, just possibly, you are at a low to moderate level of preparation.

    And yes, the stinking Twilight concept that breaking into someone's room and watching them sleep is romantic is possibly the most deeply disturbing thing in the history of deeply disturbing things.

  66. kateydidnt says:

    This is one of my thoughts–I don't think it is spoilrey-but I'm going to rot13 anyway.

    Natry naq Natryhf ner gjb qvfgvapg orvatf. Jr frr guvf va "Gur Qnex Ntr" jurer Natry checbfrshyyl yrgf Rltuba cbffrff uvz naq gura yrgf gur gjb qrzbaf–Natryhf naq Rltuba–svtug vg bhg. Guvf vaqvpngrf gung gur *fbhy* vf npgviryl fhccerffvat gur *qrzba* naq gurl ner qvfgvapg ragvgvrf vaunovgvat gur fnzr obql.

    Guvf bs pbhefr yrnqf gb gur tlcfl phefr orvat n ubeevslvat ivaqvpgvir chavfuzrag ba gur JEBAT CREFBA. Gur qrzba Natryhf vfa'g tbvat gb srry erzbefr sbe gur npgvbaf ab znggre jung, ohg gur fbhy bs Natry vf fghpx jvgu zrzbevrf naq thvyg bs ngebpvgvrf ur QVQA'G PBZZVG. Natry vf ragveryl vaabprag bs nal bs Natryhf' npgvbaf. Creuncf "Yvnz" pna or snhygrq sbe sbyybjvat Qneyn vagb gung nyyrljnl va gur svefg cynpr, ohg gung vf nf sne nf uvf phycnovyvgl tbrf.

    Snfg sbejneq gb abj. Lbh ungr Natryhf. Lbh ner fhccbfrq gb ungr Natryhf (naq cebcf gb Qnivq Obernanm'f npgvat sbe orvat noyr gb cbegenl obgu punenpgref). Ohg nal gnyx bs sbetvirarff vf hfryrff urer: Natryhf qrfreirf be jnagf ab sbetvirarff naq Natry unf qbar abguvat gb arrq sbetvirarff sbe.

  67. Suzannezibar says:

    I was totally not keeping track of which episode you were up to in Buffy, but I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU HAD THIS *AND* THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THE TWO TOWERS IN THE SAME DAY HOLY HELL.

    This episode…my god. I have my ups and downs with Buffy, but…oh god, this episode is perfect. And by that I mean perfectly heartbreaking.


    (commenting as a guest because my internet hates me and won't let me log into intensedebate 🙁 )

  68. <img src="; alt=""/>

    i just started crying hold me
    unf unf unf Giles


  69. Ginsue says:

    Because of some issues, I missed two episodes in a row. I was happy to watch all three episodes back to back. They brought me joy, and then the last one had to rip out my heart and validate all my fears. EVERYTHING I SHIP DIES! I loved Jenny Calender so much, and I felt as if I doomed her, which is impossible because this episode aired long before I knew of Jenny's existence.

    I will be over here mourning.

    If I can get my mind off Jenny for just a moment, then I think this episode is creepily realistic. Stalkers. Yes, if you had experience with them then you do not find this obsession and invasion of privacy comfortable. Even without the experience, it does not sound romantic. I have had my own stalkers. Gah, creepy! Why is obsession romantic? Angelus scares me, and I empathize with Joyce and Buffy.

    Ending statement: I cannot believe that after killing off such a great character, turning another character into a monster, and effectively killing my OTP, I still want to watch Buffy. Well, I still have Willow.

  70. Meltha says:

    Um… also?

    V whfg ernyvmrq Znex vf tbvat gb unir gb fhssre guebhtu n jrrxraq orgjrra Orpbzvat 1 naq Orpbzvat 2, vs V'ir tbg zl fpurqhyr evtug. Lbj. (Be znlor jr'yy whfg unir gb fhssre guebhtu vg nf V guvax Znex'f fdhveeryrq njnl fbzr erivrjf nurnq bs gvzr).

    Nyfb, rcvfbqrf sbe juvpu jr ner tbvat gb arrq znffvir uhtf sbe Znex:

    Orpbzvat nf n jubyr (V guvax gur jubyr tnl-cnenyyry va gur erirny gung Ohssl'f n fynlre jvyy or cnegvphyneyl uneq uvggvat)
    Gur Obql nf jryy nf gur erfg bs Wblpr'f vyyarff
    Gur Tvsg, juvpu jvyy oybj Znex'f zvaq gb yvggyr ovgf
    Frrvat Erq znvayl sbe gur fubbgvat bs Gnen (V'z pnyyvat Znex nf ybivat Gnen evtug abj)

  71. feminerdist says:

    I shouted at my tv. My husband (who has already seen all of Buffy) came into the room, and I screamed at him too, "DID THEY SERIOUSLY JUST KILL OFF JENNY?! WHAT? HOW? WHY?"

    Ugh! Fuck this show!

    And I gotta say, at this point… the idea of the show Angel just baffles me. I know the show exists (and can I add a "thank you god" for how much David Borneaz's acting has improved?) and… yeah, that's pretty much all I know. I really don't know how the writers are going to get there. I mean, Angel is just a dick at this point. I kind of want him to die. So yeah, I'm baffled. Can't wait to see where they take this plot point.

    • Delta1212 says:

      Well, you see, the show Angel is basically where the idea for Dexter came from, except they decided to change it to killing serials killers each week instead of puppies and small children.

  72. And it's never going to be the same from this point on.

    Should be fun right?


  73. Appachu says:

    the universe just conspired to make me death with this

    Appropriate typo is appropriate.

  74. Mart says:

    Something finally hit me reading the comments: the delicious irony of Whedon picking 'o soave fanciulla' from La Bohème as the aria for the scene in Giles' house.

    Aside from it being one of the most beautiful duets in opera, it is doubly fitting: it's not just two lovers declaring their love; one of them already has contracted, or is about to, a disease that will kill her.

    In effect, it's a dead woman declaring her love for a living man.


  75. dasmondschaf says:

    THIS EPISODE. I have nothing to say, because it leaves me speechless every time.

    Well, I will say that I felt physically sick watching Giles come home, knowing exactly what he was about to find. Just thinking about it turns my stomach. ;_; poor ms. calendar.

  76. theduck says:

    Today's Badly Translated episode name:

    Original text:
    …35 translations later Bing gives us:
    "Billy Jean"

    Okay, sorry. On to the (kind of) serious stuff.


    – I thought Buffy dancing with Xander at the beginning was really cute. Especially compared to last time they danced…

    – Angel, you creepy stalker 🙁 Ick 🙁

    – "This is the school library, Xander." "Since when?" I lol'd.

    – Willow's backpack is adorable! Her whole outfit is, really.

    – "I know you feel betrayed." "Yes, well, that's one of the unpleasant side effects of betrayl." Love that line.

    – "I'm not the one you need to make it up to." GO GILES I really love the way he handled that whole conversation.

    – Oh my god the fishies 🙁

    – Angel, you're a really big douchebag. Just sayin'.

    – Oh my god Angel get away from Joyce now please thank you

    – Oh my god Jenny! :((((

    – The way Giles smiles when he finds the roses and the note is the most heartbreaking part of that whole scene 🙁 Ughhh ;____;

    – Oh my god GO GILES hit him please

    – I teared up so much when Buffy hugged Giles and said "I can't do this alone" god I love these characters ;__;

  77. Binx says:

    One thing I can finally comment on now that has bugged me on every rewatch: Why did they put "Jennifer Calendar" on her headstone? Shouldn't they have put her real Romani name? Shouldn't her body have been brought back to wherever she hails from? Where are her Romani friends and family? Sure, her uncle was killed, but where are the rest of them? Do anyone contact them, or know how to?

    It just kind of makes me sad that we got the backstory on her that she was a whole different person than we thought she was and came from a whole different area and culture, and then she's buried alone in Sunnydale as simply Jenny Calendar, with no one at her grave but Buffy and Giles.

    I get that the writers just needed to set up that scene as an opportunity to have Buff & Giles talk in private whilst gazing at her recognizable name, but it has always sort of upset me on behalf of Jenny's character. IDK.

    • tehrevel says:

      If she kept her life secret enough then didn't bother getting back in contact with whatever family she had when she got "exiled" from the scoobies (she might even have even been pissed at her family for putting her in that position and not telling her about the loophole in the curse for ages) then who would be in a position to contact her family?

    • notemily says:

      This has always bugged me too.

    • AJW says:

      I agree, I've also always wondered why it's "Jennifer". It's a fake name, and if you are going to go with a fake name, wouldn't it be the name you actually called her, "Jenny"? "Jennifer" means nothing to anyone.

      • @Ivana2804 says:

        If she's changed her name officially, then it's not fake, it's her real name, of her own choosing.

        Granted, the show never makes it clear if that's what she did.

    • arctic_hare says:

      Bugs the hell out of me too.

  78. Hotaru_hime says:

    Can we just focus on the only positive thing in this episode? The floppy disk. Not what it contains, but the fact that it exists.
    Every time you spoke about how awesome Jenny was it was like, "No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Your heart!!!"
    Like I said before, Whedon loves to crush hearts.

    • Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

      Yay for floppy disks. I love watching this show and thinking about all of the things that could've been different if the characters had the technology that we have now.

      • notemily says:

        Well, this one wouldn't be too different–it'd just be a flash drive that fell behind the desk, instead of a floppy disk. Although maybe Jenny would have backed up her work ~to the cloud~ as well.

        • Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

          Yeah, I was thinking about the cloud

        • Danny_SAP says:

          ZE CLOUD! But nobody would have known it existed anyway so it would probably be even MORE difficult to find in the cloud. If she'd actually TOLD anybody what she was working on… fb gurl jbhyq guvax gb ybbx sbe vg znlor gur riragf bs Orpbzvat naq Knaqre'f njshy NJSHY yvr gb Ohssl jbhyq unir arire unccrarq.

  79. Raenef_the_5th says:

    Re: Angel snapping Jenny's neck instead of biting her – the writers also wanted to make sure no one would think she could come back as a vampire or was somehow only temporarily dead. She's gone, it hurts.

    Flashing back to the original airing, this episode was SO STUNNING in how horrifying it was.

    Edit: and for the interested:…. the shooting script for the episode.

    • theDMG says:

      Flashing back to the original airing, this episode was SO STUNNING in how horrifying it was.

      Yeah, considering this was the beginning of the Joss Whedon-will-kill-the-characters-you-care-for-most movement, it left me dumbfounded. I knew from what I’d seen so far in the series that he didn’t exactly shy away from painful moments but this was a whole ‘nother level.

  80. Tina says:

    You see, my take on Xander is that he didn't hate Angel only because he was jealous. He hates him also because he's a vampire and well, Xander hates vampires. He also dated twice a "monster of the week" and he saw Willow nearly being killed when she dated her "monster of the week". Angel was too much of an exception. He never trusted him as Giles, Willow and Buffy did. So if neither Giles nor Willow said "I told you so" to Buffy it's because they trusted Angel and they feel betrayed too (in a less impactful way as Buffy sure, but still).
    Naq ur jvyy arire shyyl gehfg Fcvxr rvgure, V zrna rirelbar guvaxf ur'f bire-ernpgvat naq ur fgvyy gvr hc Fcvxr jura ur unf gb xrrc uvz va uvf ubhfr. Knaqre whfg qbrfa'g gehfg inzcverf. Lrf vg'f vebavp orpnhfr ur raqrq jvgu na rk-qrzba-tvey, ohg vg'f bar bs uvf onfvpf genvgf, ur ivfprenyyl ungrf inzcverf naq ivfprenyyl qbrfa'g gehfg gurz.

    • Tina says:

      (cont)It's pretty much an unpopular opinion but I don't think Xander's jealousy/"protectiveness" of Buffy and Willow is "omg date me!" but a mix between attraction feelings and "brother" feelings, you see ? Also, Xander "jokes" to cope with the pressure. It's like his major character traits, there is a lot of people who "jokes" very very very badly with very bad timing because it's their only way to cope with the horror they are confronted with, and Xander is like that.

      • kristinc says:

        We live in a world where brothers murder their sisters for being with (or being raped by) the wrong man so yeahno, absolutely not cutting Xander an ounce of slack because his possessive, entitled attitude toward Buffy could maybe sorta possibly be construed as "brotherly".

        • Tina says:

          Except those type of murder are usually motivated by the "honor to the family" thing more than a "protectiveness toward the sister", it's not the case with Xander.
          I don't understand this way of thinking, will you put in jail all the guys in the world who have sister because some of them don't care about their sister as a human ?
          Rejecting the concept of brothery feeling only because some men in the world think about their sister not as sister but as object is pretty absurd in my opinion.

          But to clarify, I think Xander think about Willow as his sister (and not an object who has the honor of the family put on her virginity) and he's starting to slowly think about Buffy as his sister, or even his brother.

          • kristinc says:

            Those murders are often described and defended as being about protecting the sister, or her honor. We know, of course, that what they're actually about is possessiveness and a feeling of entitlement to know what that sister should do with her life, her body and her sexuality. Which is exactly why it squicks me right out to see someone conflating Xander's possessive and entitled attitude toward Buffy with "brotherliness".

            "I don't understand this way of thinking, will you put in jail all the guys in the world who have sister because some of them don't care about their sister as a human ? "

            Criticism of a fictional character's behavior and a desire to jail real people for thoughtcrime are not in any way equivalent. Please don't compare them as if they are. Thank you.

            It's completely possible to feel protective toward a sibling without feeling as if you have the right to control their choices or nag and be a jerk when they make decisions you disapprove of. Guys who feel that entitlement may be brothers but they're not acting "brotherly", they're acting like controlling choads. (And if you ask me, making snarky victim-blamy comments to someone who has just been violated by an abusive stalker ex is anything but being protective or seeing her as a human.)

    • Fuzzysnowpuffs says:

      Well the way I look at it is that Xander is a very complex character, like all of the main characters in the Buffy universe. He is a generally nice guy, but he also has a dark side that comes out. V zrna, Jvyybj'f qnex fvqr vf jnl jbefr. As for his motivations for disliking Angel… It's definitely a healthy combination of both. Of course he has serious jealousy issues, but it's enhanced from the fact that Angel is a vampire… Not only does Buffy like someone else, but it's somebody that is supposed to be evil and she is supposed to hate. How does a regular guy compete with that? Kind of ironic when you think about it, because Willow feels very similar towards Cordelia and Xander's relationship.

      • Tina says:

        And for Willow, it's pretty much why I've got this "brother/sister" vibe when it comes to her and Xander, they are very alike when it comes to romantic relationship.

    • James says:

      Also, I don't know why everyone is saying that Xander is a Nice Guy
      It's Nice Guy™, not just "a nice guy", as in Nice Guy syndrome which is a term people use to describe straight guy behaviour including being "friends" with a girl in the hope it'll lead to something more, and other shitty character traits.

      • Tina says:

        Oh I see. Thanks 🙂
        But after reading this article, I pretty much thinks Xander he's moving on Buffy by dating Cordelia. About Willow he has such a "brother/sister" vibe when he's with her for me that he doesn't really fit in the trope. And my "feelings" is that his feelings towards Buffy are turning slowly to "brother feelings" instead of "I want to date her" feelings.

    • kristinc says:

      Whoops, I see someone already gave a much more cogent explanation of Nice Guy than I could. Note to self: read comment strings all the way through, self.

  81. sporkaganza93 says:

    I really like how Angel is set up as the "romantic vampire" at first, and then when he loses his soul and becomes a true vampire, Angelus is like a really twisted, fucked-up version of that.

  82. Bill says:

    Apparently David Boreanaz improv'd his entire performance as Angelus. Or so I've heard.

  83. Jessica says:

    Passion is brilliant, tragic, and heartbreaking. Beautifully written, shot, and acted, and one of my top Buffy episodes of all seven seasons. Your commentary on it is well-done. Been lurking and reading through your reviews of the show. I always enjoy seeing a new fan coming into the series for the first time.

    A tidbit you may not have noticed, but in the "incidental" music that plays through all of the Giles/Jenny interactions, Giles himself (Anthony Head) 'sings' the backing vocals.

    [youtube KwZc1umSUAY youtube]

  84. Kari18212 says:

    This episode hurts so much, although the moment that kills me the most is Willow's reaction-Alyson Hannigan crying is so painful, and her hanging up the phone like it will change the truth just rings so true to receiving tragic news in real life…. Anyway there's basically nothing else to say about it 🙁 Except that, as if Giles didn't have enough to deal with in this episode, he gets knocked out again, although it has at least been a few episodes…

    Giles Knock-Out Count is now at 8.5 🙁 And I'm off to go cry over Jenny some more…

  85. kelseyofcake says:


    -Eeeww, creeper. Get out. D8
    -OH GOD NO. NO FOREVER. It's even creepier than when Edward did it!
    -Nooooo. Fuck this shit.
    -I love how they acknowledge through Xander that there are rarely any other kids getting books from the library.
    -Guys, don't forget! He was in Willow's room too!
    -Personally, I would have thought of trying to find spells to un-invite Angel as soon as he turned.
    -Willow, I love your paranoia/enthusiasm over teaching.
    -Please guys, your shunning of Jenny just makes this episode harder. 🙁
    -Is that part of the Buffy/Angel theme they're playing for Giles and Jenny? My heart.
    -Okay if I was Willow, I would've started whimpering in fear right on the spot.
    -There is garlic behind Buffy's head.
    -And speaking of puppies….So vampires aren't against eating something other than humans even if they have no soul.
    -I like Sunshine. Let her go. 🙁
    -Angelus makes a creepy and entertaining asshole.
    -Damn your psychic powers, Dru!
    -I wish Buffy!magic was real and shops like this existed. I would have a hell of a time just looking at stuff.
    -Buffy, stop it! Oh….okay, that's much better. Thank you for being nice to Jenny.
    -Aaww, that little whine about the fish.
    -Oh, awesome. More envelopes with creepy drawings.
    -Is it immature of me that I thought “nyeah nyeah”?
    -Oh crap, Dru. (And she still has the puppy…)
    -Yay Jenny! But oh no, I remember how this scene goes. I'll just grab my stuffed animal of choice and hug it for the rest of this episode.
    -Jenny, Angelus doesn't want his soul back, just run!
    -I'm too sad and anxious to fret about the fact that I find the computer being on fire to be unrealistic.
    -Oh god and you KNOW he's holding back on purpose to make her think she can get away.
    -OH GOD NO.
    -The humor here is like someone trying to put a band-aid on a broken arm.
    -And on top of that we have this heaping pile of awkward. I'm glad Joyce seems more angry about who Buffy slept with and that she was never told than the fact she had sex at all.
    -Oh god, Giles. GILES. 🙁
    -The music, the trail of roses, the wine, the note, his smile. FUCK.
    -Oh he's in shock, help me. I can't.
    -Oh my god, he's sticking around to see how they react.
    -Giles, no.
    -Oh fuck, the picture of Jenny dead.
    -How are they entering a crime scene so easily?
    -Thank you Buffy.
    -Dru still has that puppy. Perhaps she got attached and wants it to be her new “bird”.
    -Flaming baseball bat. That's creative.
    -Somebody get Giles!
    -Buffy is crying now. :((((
    -”If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow, empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.” one of the most non-humorous quoted lines from the Buffyverse. I like it.
    -”I've buried too many people. Jenny was the first I loved.” Let me die.
    -Okay back to crying.

    In the interview for this episode, Joss said “We wanted to make the characters as miserable as possible.” He also said killing such a major character sent a message to the actors: “Be very good, or I'll kill you.” I'm still not sure if he was joking at the time or not. Creuncf jr jvyy qvfphff gung zber jura jr trg gb gur cnvashy jnvyvat-naq-tanfuvat-bs-grrgu gung vf "Lbh'er Jrypbzr".

  86. 12Sided says:

    Rewatching the 2nd season for the first time in years… Everyone has been expressing the terrible loss of Jenny and Angel's horribly brilliant villainy far better then I could but I just need to express that… I think this episode just cemented my hate for Xander.
    I used to find him funny and charming back when I first watched the show and I actually felt sorry for him but now years later with years more experience in the world; MY GODS what a slime stain! He'd been rubbing me the wrong way for quite a few episodes and his jokes aren't nearly as funny as I remember.
    But this episode? What he says, the "I told you so." just filled me with so much rage. No you didn't tell anyone so Xander, all you did was moan complain and lash out at any man who Buffy liked, you didn't hate him because you could see deep down he was a monster, you were just painting him as a horrible person even with a soul because you thought he was c-blocking you, like every entitled Nice Guy who bemoans women for going out with "Jerks" rather then a Nice Guy like you.
    Remember that time you fantasised about Buffy being miserable so you could ride in and save the day? Well guess what bucko? Your dream of Buffy being miserable has come true! LUCKY YOU. All it took was to have everything go horribly wrong and now SOMEONE YOU KNEW IS DEAD. Is it everything you hoped it would be?
    Jenny is dead and you're saying I told you so? If anything you should be feeling guilty for wishing something like this would happen.
    You horrible excuse for a human being.

    V xabj lbh'yy or tbvat guebhtu fbzr ubeevoyr fghss yngre naq V ybbx sbejneq gb frrvat lbh fhssre, V jbag orvat srryvat nal flzcngul.

    • kelseyofcake says:

      <img src="; border="0" alt="Photobucket">

      I have very similar feelings. When I first saw this show, I liked Xander for most of the time until he started annoying me. Now I feel like I have to look for things to like about him, and more often than not, he is jerk. So far anyway.
      Nf sbe uvf shgher fhssrevat, V pna'g fnl vs V'yy or pbzcyrgryl haflzcngurgvp be abg orpnhfr sbe nyy V xabj ur qbrf vzcebir yngre ba. Ubjrire, V guvax vg qbrf fnl fbzrguvat gung rira onpx jura V qvqa'g zvaq uvz fb zhpu, vg jnf Naln V sryg onq sbe nsgre ur yrsg ure ng gur nygne. V unq ab flzcngul sbe uvz naq jnagrq gb uvg uvz jvgu n fubiry. Fb, jr'yy frr V thrff.

      • Tina says:

        Well I'm totally on the reverse here 😀 I mean, I "liked" Xander when I first watch the show but I didn't find him very interesting. Now I'm just so in love with him as a character (not as a person but as a character) I mean, he's way much more interesting that what I remember because of all those flaws he has. He's like Draco Malfoy.

    • arctic_hare says:

      <img src="; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    • Danny_SAP says:

      Xander's despicableness is seriously sticking out like a sore thumb this time around. I was 13-14 when season 2 aired and I totally identified with Xander and thought he was right on but now every annoying sexual comment (and that he just makes them ALL THE TIME like he literally doesn't think about anything else) just makes me groan. Naq V whfg erzrzorerq ubj ur trgf znq ng Naln sbe shpxvat Fcvxr nsgre ur YRSG URE NG GUR NYGRE. Ur arire yrgf nal bs uvf ynql sevraqf trg njnl sebz uvf Avpr Thl gragnpyrf.

      The victim blaming at the beginning and I Told You So during this episode just cemented ubj V'z tbvat gb srry nobhg uvz sbe gur erfg bs gur frevrf.

      • Tina says:

        I'm starting to wonder what people consider worse : Xander's "human" I told you so, or Angelus "vampire" murder of Jenny.

        • Jenny_M says:

          One doesn't negate the other. It's possible to examine them both critically and view them both as negative things.

          • notemily says:

            Exactly. Plus, Angelus is a villain. His murder of Jenny is supposed to show us exactly how horrible he is. Xander, on the other hand, is supposed to be one of the "good guys," someone we root for, so I think it's fair to hold him to a higher standard.

          • Tina says:

            Well I agree but about Jenny's death I read more "I wheep for Jenny" than "Let's talk about Angelus killing people". I mean, I think there is way much more to discuss about Angel creepyness, sadism an "inappropriate behaviour" and non-respect toward women than Xander's comment. (and I wonder if it was Cordelia who made this particular comment if it would have made the same outrage).

            • Jenny_M says:

              Cordelia didn't, so you have no way of knowing.

              Additionally, I'm sure there are plenty of forums where people talk about Angelus killing people. If you want to talk about it here, PLEASE start a thread that brings it up (WITHOUT mentioning Xander!) and I'm sure people would love to discuss it with you.

              HOWEVER, people on THIS FORUM are interested in Xander and the way his character is portrayed. Perhaps they are even MORE interested in that than in the rest of the plot. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

              If I wanted to comment every single day talking about Cordelia's hair, THAT WOULD BE FINE because it would be the thing I wanted to discuss about the show. That is how comments work.

            • arctic_hare says:

              I'm pretty sure we're all aware that Angelus is a creepy, sadistic murderer, and many people HAVE in fact commented on that. It pretty much goes without saying that people are generally going to get that a villain is behaving atrociously without having to say so. I mean, it's completely obvious.

              But that's not the point. The point is that people can and will talk about whatever the hell they want. If you want to discuss Angel being a murdering creeper, by all means discuss it. If other people want to talk about Xander being a victim-blaming jerk, they are perfectly free to do so. Some people do both, others pick one or the other, other people discuss other things. THAT IS ALL OKAY HERE. Stop trying to shut down discussions about Xander because you don't like that people dislike the character.

    • Danny_SAP says:

      I like this train of thought. You see in Bewitched how he never actually expects his schtick to work. Like he makes his "lapdance" comment and is kind of shocked that Buffy responds to it positively.

  87. Revisionist says:

    I vividly remember the strong emotions this episode triggered when I watched it for the first time so I do know what you are going through. This was an episode that shocked me but also it was the episode where I went from enjoying Buffy to realising that this would be my all-time favourite show (I wonder what this says about me). The episode’s impact was so great that it made me realise just how good television could be. I have often wondered if I would have ever sought and watched Veronica Mars, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, The Prisoner, The Wire etc. if I hadn’t seen this episode. For me this episode is one of the best episodes, not just of Buffy, but of television and for that I do love it.

  88. quenstalof says:

    Is this an episode from Booth's Angel(us)'s point of view? Should be interesting.
    Why is she not totally creeped out that there's a letter near her head when she wakes up? Se looked more intrigued and it was the drawing that got to her.
    Is that Self-defense poster in both English and Spanish? That's more like the SoCal I know. $4.00 sounds like a deal for a self-defense class.
    He strung up her fishies 🙁
    Speaking of puppies…Sunshine and her mommy 🙁 I fear there will be a lot more sad faces this episode.
    I'm afraid for Cordy's grandma. It seems like they're playing the car invitation thing for laughs, but I'm worried that it's gonna come back to haunt her. 🙁
    I like how Dru kind of adopted the puppy, but I"m still afraid for her.
    🙁 That's all I got
    Oh god is this another unannounced two-parter? oh god Giles.
    I'm crying Giles is just so happy.
    Such a hipster Xander. I hated Angel before it was cool
    Hello Ripper, love the flaming baseball bat
    This is my face right now :'-( I didn't have any more words.

  89. Smurphy says:

    I watched this last night… and went to bed early… because I was too depressed to get out of bed and do anything else…


    Gonna go cry some more.

  90. pica_scribit says:

    Oh, Mark! You hear that sound? That's Joss Whedon chuckling with glee over your naivety and precious innocence. You're still not prepared. Not even a little bit.

  91. @farwell3d says:

    FUCK. This just ate my 5 paragraph comment!

    At Innocence, I said BTVS staked it argument to best show on television. I don't think the next two episodes did much either way with that argument.

    Passion ended the argument. Best episode to date, my third favorite of the series.

    This is the single creepiest episode of television I have ever seen (Lrf, rira zber guna Uhfu) and I have said for years that if someone ripped off half the plot, they could make a modern masterpiece thriller/horror film.

    David Tyrone King only wrote two episodes of Buffy (the other being Some Assembly Required) which is a shame, because this episode is SO fucking good.

    "I had to talk to her, Buffy, she's a teacher. And teachers have to be respected, even if they aren't the real teacher, otherwise the whole system collapses." So, so cute

    "Oh my god, I invited him into my car!"

    "For the first time, I'm glad my parents didn't let me get a puppy."

    "It was like a sleepover. With weapons."

    Then the comedy stops. Just fucking STOPS.

    I do wish the debate they had about which face Angelus had went the other way. It would have been even better (worse) to have him kill Jenny while looking human.

    Speaking of Angelus, what is it about playing a magnificent bastard that makes Boreanaz improve by leaps and bounds as an actor?

    As horrible as the stalking and killing of Jenny is, watching Buffy get the phone call is even worse. Even more evil. It's not just the pain he caused. It's the way he revels in it. Just such a magnificent bastard.

    "Faster Pussycat. Kill! Kill!."

    Buffy knocking Giles down and then holding him and sobbing. Oh god. Oh god. Someone hold me.

    • Delta1212 says:

      "At Innocence, I said BTVS staked it argument to best show on television. I don't think the next two episodes did much either way with that argument. "

      I was going to disagree with that. Then I realized that all of the shows I could think of as candidates for "Better than Buffy" aired well after this, even well after the show itself had stopped airing. Taking that into consideration… Yeah, it's quite possible that this was the best television show to have ever aired up to this point as of this episode.

      I say that without hyperbole but also without having put an exhaustive amount of effort into making sure I haven't forgotten anything which aired pre-1998 that might be in the running.

      • @farwell3d says:

        Well, I'm not saying it had, at that point, been the best EVER. But it was the best on.

        Now, at the end of the 7 years? Best ever by a large, large margin. Just my opinion, of course.

    • @Ivana2804 says:

      "At Innocence, I said BTVS staked it argument to best show on television. I don't think the next two episodes did much either way with that argument.

      Passion ended the argument."

      Oh god, YES.

      Which are your top 2 episodes?

      "David Tyrone King only wrote two episodes of Buffy (the other being Some Assembly Required) which is a shame, because this episode is SO fucking good. "

      And the weirdest thing is that Some Assembly Required is one of the show's worst episodes (IMO). Who'd think his next one would be so great.

      I agree with the vamp face/human face, but gurl jrer fcrpvsvpnyyl gelvat gb znavchyngr gur nhqvrapr. V'z abg fher vg znqr zhpu qvssrerapr rvgure jnl, senaxyl.

    • Danny_SAP says:

      Uhfu unf fb zhpu zber uhzbe va vg (NAQ TVYRF' YNQLSEVRAQ). The dots of humor in passion serve to make everything that much more uncomfortable and sad… to the point where it's actually worse re-watching it because each laugh line is an echo of future misery.

  92. @Imogen1984 says:

    What I love about this episode – so much – is how evil Angelus is. He is a monster. The worst. When Kendra says "I've read about him, he's a monster" you don't have an idea of how bad he is. Until this episode, where David Boreanz NAILS IT. He is the creepiest mofo in the universe.

  93. @Ivana2804 says:

    Mark, your feelings during this episode completely match mine (except that I haven't had anyone sneak into my room to watch me sleep…as far as I know). I remember how shocking and heartbreaking it was and that it was the episode that convinced me that Buffy the Vampire Slayer was one of TV"s all time greatest drama series.

    When Angelus snaps Jenny's neck, it was a shock – but the most chilling scene for me was when Giles finds Jenny – I remember I was freezing, thinking "oh god, no!" as he was walking upstairs, so hopeful. Even years later, when I rewatched it recently, I cried again. I cried in that scene, I cried when Buffy yells at Giles and hugs him after she drags him out of the factory.

    But the episode is chilling from the word-go – even before Angelus does anything, him just standing there stalking Buffy and her friends. (And what an effective use of "Never An Easy Way" by Morcheeba – though not nearly as effective as the use of that other musical number later on.) Back in season 1, Angel told Buffy he liked to watch her sleep. He also liked to lurk outside Buffy’s room or get inside when she wasn’t there and touch her things (What's My Line). Only back then, it was treated as at worst a little annoying and at best endearing. And now…

    Buffy: I can’t believe he’s the same person. He’s completely different from the guy I knew.
    Willow: Well, sort of, except…
    Buffy: Except what?
    Willow: You’re still the only thing he thinks about.

    BtVS is so good with subversion of romantic tropes that some other fictional works like Twilight play straight. Isn't it romantic when a guy is so obsessed with you? Err, no, it's creepy.

    It’s amazing how creepy those scenes feel much before he even hurts anyone – but that’s what a campaign of terror is all about, instilling fear into people, making them feel they aren’t safe anywhere.

    Angel’s voice overs, which open the episode and continue at various parts while he is stalking and watching Buffy and her friends, are about the power of passion. Who does this refer to? Buffy? Giles? The way he is using other people’s passions – such as love – against them? Or is he talking about himself, about the reasons why he is doing what he is doing. Buffy is still the object of his the passion that rules his life, but now this passion is cruel and evil. But passion is also a theme of the season, and not just this season. Buffy’s love for Angel made her vulnerable and prevented her from doing her duty; Giles warns her in this episode that she has to keep her wits about her and not be overcome with feelings of anguish and anger, to not be “a slave to your passions”; ironically, she does keep her wits about her, but it’s Giles who is later overcome with grief and rage after Jenny’s death and does something mad and impulsive.

    Speaking of Angel's voice overs – they're all the work of one Joss Whedon; he completely rewrote the voice overs from Ty King's original script and made them a lot more poetic and meaningful.

    For comparison:
    1) Original script:….
    – Passion… it is born… and though uninvited, unwelcome, unwanted, like a cancer, it takes root. It festers. It bleeds. It scabs……only to rupture, and bleed anew. It grows… it thrives……until it consumes. It lives……so, it must die……in time.
    – Passion… it drives some to distraction…some to despair……some to vengeance…It drives some to murder… and others to madness.
    – Passion… is the source of hope…It is the source of life……and the cause of death.

    2) The episode:
    – Passion… it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unwanted, unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us… Passion rules us all. And we obey. What other choice do we have?
    – Passion is the source of our finest moments; the joy of love, the clarity of hatred, and the ecstasy of grief. It hurts sometimes more than we can bear.
    – If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank… Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

    • @Ivana2804 says:

      And THAT scene. It is the creepiest example of Angel’s “torture as an art” approach: the roses, the champagne, the written note “Upstairs” (very similar to the note “Soon” he left for Buffy in the previous episode), and the music from the record player – a very romantic aria “O suave fanciulla” from the opera La Boheme by Puccini. The aria is sung by Mimi and Rodolfo, two people in love:
      Rodolfo: O soave fanciulla, o dolce viso / Di mite circonfuso alba lunar/ In te ravviso il sogno / Ch'io vorrei sempre sognar! – Oh! lovely girl! Oh, sweet face / bathed in the soft moonlight. / I see in you the dream / I'd dream forever!
      and as Giles finds Jenny’s body in his bed:
      Mimi: Ah, tu sol comandi, amor! – Ah! Love, you rule alone!
      Rodolfo: Fremon già nell'anima / Le dolcezze estreme. – Already I taste in spirit / The heights of tenderness!

      But even without knowing lyrics, the music made the scene even more intense, as Giles is first smelling the rose and happily climbing the stairs, and the climax of the aria happens exactly when he comes closer and realizes that Jenny is dead.

      This is the kind of plan that could only be devised by someone who fancies himself an artist, has a romantic streak himself (maybe even thinks of making love to the woman he loves as the pinnacle of happiness) naq fcraqf n ybg bs gvzr guvaxvat nobhg gur srryvatf bs bguref, jurgure vg vf va beqre gb uryc gurz (jura ur unf n fbhy) be gur orggre jnlf gb uheg gurz naq rawbl gurve cnva.

      I love the relationship between Buffy and Giles. While he’s generally her father figure (Angel recognizes it too, when he calls Giles Buffy’s “old man”), though in an equal relationship unlike those that most parents and children have, in Passion Buffy is the one taking care of Giles. Early on she helps Giles’s relationship with Jenny, talking to Jenny, despite still being angry with her, and telling her that Giles misses her. Buffy is also the first one to realize that Angel is the one who set up the romantic scene in order to torment Giles, and the first one to guess exactly what Giles would do, proving once again that she’s a smart cookie, but also that she knows Giles very well. It’s all the more poignant when a man normally as rational and in control of his emotions as Giles does something as passionate and practically suicidal, as Giles does when he goes alone straight to the factory where Angel, Spike and Dru live, to try to kill Angel.

      Luckily for Giles, at least he isn’t up against two vampires: Dru seems like she’s about to get involved in the fight and help Angel, but as soon as Spike tells her not to (“No fair going to the ring unless he tags you first” ), she changes her mind. (Another instance of Dru listening to Spike's common sense advice, after his advice not to pluck out Dalton's eyes in Surprise). And when Buffy arrives to help Giles, Dru doesn’t even think of helping him fight Buffy, but just quickly wheels Spike away and they both watch the scene from afar. No matter how much she likes having Angel back, she doesn’t care that much to risk her life trying to help him. When it comes to Spike, she cares enough to take care of him (according to Angel, she is bathing him, changing him and feeding him) but in this episode she’s doing it in a somewhat humiliating way: she gives him a puppy to “eat” – even though vampires consider it a gross insult to drink from animals, and Spike used to bring her people to drink when she was ill. She also tells him she named it Sunshine, which is pretty much like giving him a present and calling it Wooden Stake. Angel is insinuating that he’s sleeping with Dru, telling Spike that he could take up his duties while he’s incapacitated, except for what he’s already doing (wink wink nudge nudge), and whether it’s already true or not, Dru is just openly happy to have “boys” fighting over her. But I'd say Angel isn’t nearly as interested in her as he is in hurting Spike and getting one over him. Besides, it helps take attention away from his obsession with Buffy, which Spike, on his part, is constantly mocking him for, criticizing him for not killing Buffy when he had a chance and calling him crazy. It’s pretty funny when Angel tries to convince Spike that he’s got everything under control, only to have Giles throw a Molotov’s cocktail at his feet a second later.

      The second time I cried when rewatching the episode was when Giles yells at Buffy that she shouldn’t have gotten involved as it’s not her fight, she punches him for saying it, tells him he can’t leave her (i.e. get himself killed) and she can’t do it alone without him, and hugs him as they both break into tears.

  94. tardis_stowaway says:

    On Sunday, I watched "Passion" for the first time in years, just hours after re-watching Sherlock's "The Reichenbach Fall." I knew going in that watching both of these on the same day was a bad plan, but I did it anyway. WHY DO I DO THESE THINGS TO MYSELF? Sometimes being prepared doesn't make the pain go away.

    <img src="; border="0" alt="my emotions">

    Then the excess of television sadness apparently triggered the "Doomsday" music from Doctor Who to get stuck in my head. GEE, THANKS BRAIN. THAT HELPS A LOT.

    On a lighter note, I was greatly amused by how Angelus throws the computer onto the ground and it spontaneously bursts into flame.

    • Seventh_Star says:

      every time i hear those piano notes that open "doomsday" i start to cry. EVERY TIME. and when the vocals kick in i'm a goner.

  95. Danny_SAP says:

    Angel sucks.

    GILES Yes, but, uh, once you’ve invited them in, thereafter they’re, they’re always welcome. XANDER Y’know, I think there may be a valuable lesson for you gals here about inviting strange men into your bedrooms.

    Xander sucks



    The shot that’s burned into my brain.

    WILLOW Oh, yeah. It went fine. Well, it went fine until Angel showed up and told Buffy’s mom that he and Buffy had… Well, you know, that they had… you know. You do know, right? GILES Oh, yes. Yes. Sorry. WILLOW Oh, good, ’cause I just realized that being a librarian and all, you maybe didn’t know. GILES Oh, thank you. I got it.

    ilu Willow

    The smile that broke a thousand hearts.

    XANDER I’m sorry, but let’s not forget that I hated Angel long before you guys jumped on the bandwagon. So I think I deserve a little something for not saying ‘I told you so’ long before now. And if Giles wants to go after the, uh, (looks up at Buffy) fiend that murdered his girlfriend, I say, ‘Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!’

    Ugh Xander, you suck so much! You only hated Angel because YOU ARE CREEPY OBSESSED WITH BUFFY’S VAGINA.

    All of the tears.

  96. mediamadmeg says:

    What's interesting is that one of my best friends, who was finishing series seven around the time I was starting season one, said that Jenny's death was actually similar to that of Cedric Diggory's. The actual acts of murder on both parts are rather similar -a simple avada kedavra, a quick and clean snap of the neck. Harry and Buffy both genuinely cared about Cedric and Jenny (respectively, of course), but the actual loss meant more to people like Cho and Giles and Willow, and then Harry and Buffy had to live with the guilt of letting them down.

    And most importantly, they showed us that Jo and Joss DID NOT GIVE A FUCK about who they killed.

    On the note of Giles, it puts his conversation with Buffy at the end of Innocence a whole new light, when you know that he's going to be the one who suffers the most from Buffy's decision, but he still supports her. He still loves her more than anyone else in his life. It's just…it's heartwrenching.

    THIS SHOW. We tried to tell you that you weren't prepared *sniff*

  97. Yorkshiregal says:

    Knowing what was going to happen, rewatching the first scenes of "Passion" really bothered me. I completely empathized with Buffy not killing Angelus in "Innocence". But after Theresa died in "Phases", I thought she should have been more hard core. In the first scene of "Passion" the kids walk out of the Bronze in a very care-free manner and pass by what appears to be a couple kissing but is actually Angelus killing a girl. I found the juxtaposition VERY jarring.

    I'm bothered that it took Jenny's death – in otherwords someone she knows well – to motivate her to NOW go after Angelus. I have no problem with her going to the Bronze, nor do I expect her to be 24×7 on the "kill kill" duty. But the carefree Bronze scene was just wrong. It had to be intentional. And didn't Giles tell her essentially to just ignore Angelus and hope he goes away? That was so wrong too. So, it's not just Buffy. Giles was not pushing the "kill Angelus" agenda. I put the blame on all of the Scoobies for not being more aggressive.

    So, was Xander petty to say "I told you so". Yes. He was there dancing at the Bronze too. But I think his comments are in anger and this is him taking another "stand" and saying Angelus needed to be put down when earlier they were just avoiding him.

    BTW DID Xander ever tell Buffy that Angel was dangerous? Yes. In the episode "Angel" he says
    "Xander: You're in love with a vampire?! What, are you outta your mind?!"

    and then later
    "Giles: I say that there's no record, but, uh, vampires hunt and kill. It's, it's what they do.
    Xander: Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly."

    more importantly, we the audience know exactly what Xander thinks regarding Angel being a vampire from "Prophecy Girl":
    Xander: How can I say this clearly?
    He holds up a cross. Angel growls. Xander advances toward him, and he backs off until he falls onto the couch.
    Xander: I don't like you. At the end of the day, I pretty much think you're a vampire. (lowers the cross) But Buffy's got this big old yen for you. She thinks you're a real person. And right now I need you to prove her right.

    Do I think his jealousy drove alot of his negative running commentary in S1 and S2 about Angel? Absolutely. But I think it's well established that he hates vampires (after Jesse) and has issues (in part) with Angel because he is a vampire. Further he directly tells Buffy that Angelus is not the guy she fell in love with when they are in the funeral home in "Phases" visiting Theresa.

    So, after finding out that Angelus killed Jenny, I really don't think his comments about killing Angelus have anything at all to do with his jealousy. Not this time, not at this moment in "Passion".

  98. Nattlinnen says:

    I will just leave this picture here because it is the most beautiful picture of Giles, and yet, because we know what will happen, the most heartbreaking.

    <img src=""&gt;

  99. asdf says:

    And I just read this on the Buffy wiki… "The death of Jenny was never originally meant to occur. The original plan had been for Oz to be the character who met their end at the hands of Angelus, but that plan was changed after the fan reaction to Oz had been so positive. The grisly demise was then dealt to the character of Jenny."

    Huh? Really?? But what about the fans of Jenny huh. 🙁

    • Zoli says:

      OMG it was supposed to be Oz?!?! DDD:

      I'm really glad it wasn't. I liked Jenny, and her death was sad (though I knew it was going to happen eventually) but Oz is my favorite and if he'd died I might have given up on the show entirely. ;_;

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