In the seventeenth episode of the second season of Battlestar Galactica, Lee is sent to the Pegasus to help with a case of missing Raptors, where he finds that Starbuck’s usual anti-authority routine might actually have some justification this time around. Meanwhile, Roslin makes a gut-wrenching political decision that not only hurts her, but backfires completely. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Battlestar Galactica.
So I have a little theory of mine about Battlestar Galactica. I think that shit will not stop getting real until the end of the final episode of the whole series. This constant one-up of everything that comes before is so goddamn entertaining, and I’m sure that there’s enough to keep this going for quite a while. You know, the survivors are so far from even thinking about Earth at this point, and that’s kind of amazing to me. That was such a huge reveal in “Home,” but so much has happened to distract these people from that ultimate goal. I can’t help but think about Sharon’s words to Adama: Does humanity deserve to survive? How can they survive if they continue to act so divisive and violent towards one another?
“The Captain’s Hand” combines two frustratingly intense story lines into one episode, and it’s clear we are approaching the end of a season. Shit isn’t just real; I can already tell that there is literally not a single way I can be prepared for how season two is ending. This is going to be so fucked up, and while “The Captain’s Hand” is a very satisfying story on its own, it’s also a warning to the viewer: You have no idea what is coming next.
Oh god, we have so much to talk about.
ROSLIN BETRAYS HERSELF
I mean…oh my god, my heart. First of all, a bit of silliness that wasn’t funny at the time, but now I’m wondering what the hell is going on in my mind. The entire impetus for Roslin’s story involves a pregnant teenager from Gemenon who sneaks on board the Galactica in a shipment container in order to get an abortion. During the cold open of “The Captain’s Hand,” this is not at all what one thinks is going to happen. Cally spots movement in a container and reports it to Tyrol. (Christ, we haven’t seen Cally or Tyrol in a long time. MORE OF THEM, PLEASE.) Seriously, all I expected Tyrol to find was an alien or some sort of creature in that container, like something out of The Thing. Of course, giving this FIVE SECONDS OF THOUGHT, this makes no sense at all. This isn’t a horror show, and there are no aliens in Battlestar Galactica, and John Carpenter didn’t write this episode. Thanks, brain.
I didn’t expect the abortion story line; initially, I thought this would be more about medical access, that maybe Rya couldn’t afford a doctor on whatever ship she came from. (Do those from Gemenon all live on the same ship? You can answer that.) Dr. Cottle quickly becomes my own personal hero when he doesn’t hesitate to inform Admiral Adama that he is providing abortions for those who need them. It’s so matter-of-fact for him. He doesn’t ask many questions, and he provides this service without judgment and with discretion. It becomes a political matter when a Gemenese demands Adama hand the girl back to her family before the abortion can be performed. And bless Dr. Cottle for suggesting Rya seek asylum, even if he didn’t mean it as an entirely serious thing.
The issue becomes further complicated when Roslin has to get involved. I was happy to hear her say that this issue is really about to control one’s own body, and her initial meeting with the Gemenon delegate, Sarah Porter, is just as reassuring to me. Even though Roslin has to deal with her upcoming re-election campaign, she effectively dodges the issue with Porter and privately concedes to Adama that she has not the slightest intention to ban abortion. And then goddamn Adama what are you doing. He reminds Roslin that she herself said that the human race can only survive if they start having babies. He knows she has an obsession with that whiteboard, with the numbers that represent the fate of the entire species. He knows that and, despite that he seems to have no stake in any religious objection towards abortion, he still feels the need to speak up. And it’s just enough to put just a tiny sliver of doubt in Roslin’s mind.
That doubt takes her to Baltar (who I’ll get to in a bit). Is her belief in repopulating the human race a valid one? To me, she’s looking for any reason to discard that statement she made so long ago and to keep her own beliefs consistent. It’s never said whether Baltar’s report was actually true, though. Did he lie for his own purposes? I actually think he didn’t, considering that the number of survivors has done nothing but drop, with the exception of the day the Pegasus crew showed up. The human race is losing their numbers, and the rate that they’re doing this by seems to suggest that Baltar’s prediction is pretty darn accurate.
And so, contrary to her own nature and what she believes in her heart, Roslin betrays her belief in the right to choose and outlaws abortion. It’s an unbearable scene, one made all the worse by the fact that you can see how upset she is for even having to do this. That being said, I still squarely stick myself in opposition to her and, despite that puts me on the side of Baltar’s manipulative display, he’s right. It is unfortunate that the human race has been decimated in the way they have, but forcing folks to carry children to term? That is inhuman and deplorable. I know that Roslin is conflicted on this, and I’m glad we see that this was not an easy choice, but she’s wrong. Surely there is a better way to encourage pregnancy and childbearing, don’t you think? Offer incentives! Do anything than to force those with uteruses to go against their own desires. Are your political ambitions more important than this, Roslin?
Oh, right, this totally backfires in your face because…
BALTAR TAKES CHARGE
Oh, Baltar. YOU ARE SUCH A SLYTHERIN. I mean RIGHT? His announcement of his candidacy for president is opportunistic at best. I don’t even know if he actually believes what he’s saying, or if he’s putting himself in opposition of Roslin merely to gain power. Six certainly encourages him to make his stand against her and she’s quite impressed at the end of this episode by how well he performs during Roslin’s press conference. Hell, the guy completely upstages her emotionally-wrought announcement to the press, sending them into chaos. There are a lot of unanswered questions with this new plot twist, too. How can he still serve as Vice President if he’s going to run against Roslin? Will he do that? Is he going to stick to his presidential aspirations? What will his platform comprise of?
I also can’t forget that Roslin has one hell of a secret weapon, too: She knows about Baltar and Six. Oh god, she’s going to reveal it soon, isn’t she?
LEE IS A BOSS
I know it’s the most played out song/meme ever, but the bulk of “The Captain’s Hand” is devoted to Lee, and I couldn’t help but narrate his actions by adding LIKE A BOSS at the end of them. Start a sexual relationship with Dualla that totally looks like it works LIKE A BOSS. Get promoted to major and not really care LIKE A BOSS. Get sent to help out Pegasus LIKE A BOSS. That’s not to suggest that Lee is the perfect leader or that he doesn’t have problems throughout “The Captain’s Hand,” but this is the most together he’s felt all season. A month has passed since “Sacrifice,” the longest jump in time between episodes we’ve seen yet. Strangely, it feels like it’s been a day. Continuity is so strange on this show, but that’s not a complaint. It just works so well because the flow of it is so natural that the passage of a month is so unreal to me.
We learn that Lee’s now acting XO on Pegasus, and SURPRISE. Starbuck has problems with her superior officer! As someone whose upbringing naturally makes him diametrically opposed to nearly every authority figure ever, I must admit that even when Starbuck is totally wrong, I dearly love watching her take the piss out of everyone. But that’s what’s different about “The Captain’s Hand.” The Commander on the Pegasus, Garner, comes from a different world as an engineer. Running a ship is a different culture than his, and the show makes sure we understand that. Garner is an asshole because he’s presented with techniques and philosophies he didn’t follow himself. Neither is inherently wrong; this is more about him being out of his element. Still, that doesn’t quite cover the conflict here. Garner is wrong. The disappearance of the two Raptors at the beginning of the episode has largely stumped the crew of the Pegasus. Yes, Lee and Garner are correct in asserting the fact that Starbuck’s constant complaining is a source of distraction for the crew, but Garner makes a massive mistake when he turns this into a personal crusade of his. Limiting Starbuck’s knowledge of events, or refusing to listen to her is not the way one is supposed to go as a Commander.
Starbuck’s theory, that the Raptors followed a fake distress call and walked into a trap, seems to line up with what Sharon had told Adama in the past episode. Even if it might have been far-fetched for Garner to believe, the fact that he doesn’t even entertain the theory is a gross mistake on his part. That’s why Lee is the better leader in this case; even knowing his own personal history with Starbuck, he’s able to put this aside in order to listen to her.
But GOOD GOD THIS ALL GOES TO HELL. I had a feeling that Garner wouldn’t obey Adama’s command to send a recon squad ahead instead of the entire Pegasus ship once I saw his facial expression. The man’s face was full of fury and scorn, and it was only a matter of time before he decided to make the jump to the distress signal anyway. When Lee confronts him on this, HHHNNNNGGG THE ACTING AND THE TENSION AND oh my god, I seriously love this show. I love it. The camera work heightens just how ridiculously suspenseful their confrontation is. I love when their arguing cuts out when Lee shouts that he’ll put Garner under arrest. I just imagined Martin Lawrence’s head popping up from Bad Boys II and dramatically saying, “Shit just got real.” There is no better moment for this in the episode either.
Well, perhaps there is a better moment. It might be when Garner realized HE WAS WRONG AND STARBUCK WAS RIGHT. God, I should never direct anything because I’m already thinking how hilarious it would be to have Martin Lawrence in every other scene of this episode. I would literally make television that only I would find funny.
Back to the serious episode! Because Garner finally comes to a realization that he is an engineer. His regiment works for engineers. Lee’s persona works as a Commander, and Lee’s shocked when Garner gives him command of the ship. It’s a poetic plot turn because each person returns to what they’re best at. Looking back, it’s inevitable that Garner had to die after all of this. His character almost seemed destined to. How would he assume command after giving it up to Lee and essentially admitting that he and Starbuck were right? Instead, he risks his own life and dies while repairing the FTL system, allowing the Pegasus to jump to safety.
It was at this point that my thoughts turned to how depressing this show was getting. But there is a moment of unbridled joy here, and it is in watching Adama make his son the Commander of the Pegasus. (Is it okay to imagine that those pins are actually Admiral Adama’s? This is my head canon and you cannot take it away from me.) Lee is going to run AN ENTIRE SHIP. Oh god, ALL THE CREYS. This promotion prompts Lee to speak openly with Starbuck about why he was so furious with her about her behavior on the Pegasus, and he spells it out for her: he’s jealous. At least that’s how I read it. Starbuck continually defies authority, gets away with it, and when Lee did this once, he nearly lost absolutely everything. What can I say? She has a talent. But as the two hug after Starbuck asks if they’re okay, I can tell that Lee leaving is going to be particularly hard on Starbuck, who still hasn’t sorted out her feelings for her friend. And now she might not get to for a while, as he won’t be on the Galactica anymore.
Damn. That’s harsh.
Ok, I have a lot of ~feelings~ about this, so saddle up.
I hate hate HATE this episode. I really do. I try to pretend it didn’t happen. And not because it was badly written, or uninteresting or anything like that…I hate it because of the decision Roslin makes to criminalise abortion. And how it seems SO out of character.
One of the reasons I love Roslin so much as a character is because she’s a great feminist icon – she defies gender stereotypes by being a strong and capable leader, able to make tough decisions but never losing her integrity or principles. She’s far more typically ‘feminine’ than say Starbuck or Boomer, but not overly sexualised like Six.
This choice…it just seems so unlike her, to the extent that it really takes me out of the episode because it seems so unlikely. Here was a woman who claimed to have ‘fought for a woman’s right to control her body’ for her entire career. FOUGHT. As in, it wasn’t an easy or accepted position to take, but she stood her ground anyway, because it was important to her. And then she just gives it up, just like that? I know that we’ve seen Roslin make some tough decisions, and that these are extraordinary times they’re living in. But those choices have always been logical and consistent with her beliefs. She has done everything she can to protect not just the lives, but the freedom of the people. Remember, this is a woman who refused to let prisoners be used as slaves even when the situation was desperate, who agreed to hold free and fair elections, who took office on the day she discovered she had terminal cancer because she so strongly believed that the people needed to have a voice and a democracy. She is not a woman who compromises her principles easily. Especially if it’s something she has previously taken on as a personal cause. It’s not the fact that this decision was made that bothers me. I can believe Baltar, Zarek or even Adama taking this road in order to preserve the human race. But Roslin? It doesn’t sit well with me.
I see what they were trying to do – to show that the survival of the human race is so important to her that she has to make sacrifices. But I just don’t think it worked in this case. I’m reminded of a quote from the show Babylon 5, when a character is asked to sacrifice herself for the life of a friend, meaning she will not be able to fulfil her perceived destiny. When asked ‘What about your cause?’ she replies ‘THIS is my cause! LIFE is my cause! One life or a billion, it’s all the same.’ Roslin cares about the survival of the human race; that number on her whiteboard means everything to her. But it’s not JUST a number, she cares about each and every person, because she is their leader and they are her people. The rights of the individual can’t simply be sacrificed for ‘the greater good’. I just can’t believe that she would sacrifice such a vital and hard won freedom, condemn woman to misery and persecution, simply to raise that number a few more digits. Because that makes them little better than the Cylons, hooking up women to machines to be used as baby factories.
It seemed like such a sudden and illogical decision, out of nowhere and completely in contrast with her earlier views. I was so pleased when she initially said ‘no’ to the idea. To quote someone more eloquent than me whose post I came across on Tumblr: ‘I expect cringe-inducing abortion fake-outs because SHE CHOOSES HER CHOICE no matter how little sense it makes for the character at the time. I expect assassinated heroes to be slammed as baby-killers. I expect anti-choice propaganda about women being too flighty to understand what pregnancy is until they see an ultrasound. I expect hand-wringing about just how much guilt everyone who has an abortion must crack under for the rest of their lives. But here, for a brief shining moment, was my girl Laura Roslin defending the moral underpinnings of the right to choose.’
Her relentless dedication to doing what she knows is the right thing despite public opinion or personal reprisals is what makes Roslin my favourite character. And then it all falls down at the end of this episode with little real reasoning behind her sudden change of heart. And I just don’t buy it. Not for a moment. It was an interesting episode and a difficult choice that should have been explored. But that resolution should not have been forced onto her character in that way, because it just doesn’t make sense. I'm not against a favourite character making a choice I don't agree with, but in this case I felt almost like they were trying to get me to dislike Roslin just for the sake of it.
Well, sorry for the really long rant everyone, and props to you if you actually read through all my ramblings! As with anything I write, this is just my opinion and I would really like to hear other people’s thoughts on this.
Oh, I forgot, this still doesn't put me on Baltar's side though. I think he's an amoral, opportunistic weasel who took advantage of an extremely difficult decision on Roslin's part to further his own agenda. But at least it was consistent with his character.
I consider it somewhat out of character, too. I get why they made this a storyline, but I honestly feel like it's a storyline forced onto her character because the writers wanted to explore it. I just get the sense that the story came first and they gave it to Roslin because she's president and it would be a hard decision for her. I agree in that I would have bought the decision much more had it come from a different character.
It was a good read, and I agree with you! This is really inconsistent with Roslin's character, especially if she states that this an issue she cares deeply about. Outlawing abortion doesn't make it disappear, and vastly increases the number of maternal deaths, so it would do fuck all to make the number on her white board start ticking upwards. I refuse to believe that Roslin wouldn't know that, and would simply go along with the ~expert opinion~ of someone that she doesn't trust. I could understand if Billy's death made her waver on the subject, but not throw all sense out the window and go against her strongly held beliefs.
ALL OF THESE THINGS. I ranted more about this downstream, but Jesus Christ, criminalizing abortion simply sends it underground onto a black market where women DIE. So the number on the whiteboard goes down regardless.
ALL OF THE RAGE, I HAS IT.
WE SHALL RAGE TOGETHER.
I might be in the minority here, but I didn't hate this decision. In life, I am pro-choice, but you definitely need to remember that the situation Roslin is in is not our situation. We make our decision on pro-life vs. pro-choice from the relative comfort and safety of a well established, non-threatened society. While there are all sorts of dangers in the world now, the chances of the total extinction of humankind are relatively small. I'm not sure any of us can truly appreciate what it must feel like to know that not only you, but your entire /species/ are only a few bad decisions away from death. Needless to say, Roslin is under pressure.
A lot of people point out that a huge part of Roslin's character is that she refuses to compromise her beliefs…the thing is, while I see that? I also see her willing to do a lot of bad things for survival. Wasn't she the one who was willing to lie to and execute Cylon prisoners without a second thought? Wasn't it her who first recommended the assassination of Admiral Caine? While she does have convictions she sticks to, we've also seen her willing to make the hard moral choices and choose survival.
I do agree that she should have tried other methods of encouraging childbirth first. She could have offered incentives. Raised awareness. But, I can also see why they told the story this way. They needed to show Roslin making the tough choice, one way or another, and having her choose a middle ground option with results that would only become clear in the long-term might have seemed like a copout. So, while it's probably not the most realistic response for her, they wanted her to choose one of the two more immediate options. Not my favorite way of handling it, but I can see why they did it.
In short, I think that Roslin was faced with the fact that choosing the moral high ground–on an issue where the 'moral high ground' itself is /highly/ disputed–could lead directly to the extinction of the human race, and chose pragmatism over one of her ideals. Which is supposed to be a hard, terrible choice, and I don't think anyone watching the episode could deny that the choice was not made lightly. I liked seeing this side of Roslin's character. I don't know. I thought it was interesting.
One thing I do want to mention from Mark's review–"Are your political ambitions more important than this, Roslin??"
I don't think so. I don't think for a moment that Roslin made this choice for the political ramifications. If so, she would have given in to the Geminons on the case of the runaway girl much earlier. She did this for one reason, that of the survival of the human race. Whether or not the ends justify the means in this situation is up to the viewer.
I have no problem with Roslin making a tough decision. This one just wasn't made based on fact, and I find it hard to believe that Roslin wouldn't be aware of the full effects of banning abortion. Her main goal is the survival of the human race, correct? Reproduction? Banning abortion does not eliminate it. It still happens through much more dangerous methods which can lead to increased sterility and maternal death. That accomplishes the exact opposite of what Roslin wants, and someone who claims to care about this issue would know that. The treatment of abortion was superficial just so that Roslin could make an ooc ~tough~ decision.
And as people mention below, she wasn't willing to use prisoners as slaves or against their will to get water for the fleet, an immediate threat to humanity's survival. She was willing to push the fleet to the brink of civil war and lose the protection of Galactica to find Earth. But upon being told by someone whom she does not trust that humanity will be spiraling towards extinction in 18 years if the reproductive rate doesn't increase, she decides to throw all of her deeply felt beliefs and a lifetime of experience out the window? Nonsense.
Remember, this is a woman who refused to let prisoners be used as slaves even when the situation was desperate
You make a lot of excellent points in your rant but this particular one struck me. It didn't even occur to me that she had stuck so strongly to her principles in "Water" and that was arguably an even more desperate situation. If they hadn't gotten the water off of that planet humanity would have gone extinct in a matter of days yet she still refused to make the prisoners into slaves.
I absolutely agree that she should have at least looked into other options for raising the birth rate. This sudden about-face was definitely out of character.
Because that makes them little better than the Cylons, hooking up women to machines to be used as baby factories.
RIGHT. I didn't even think of this parallel but it's so true. Where is Starbuck to call them out on this.
I think it would have made more sense for Roslin to hold firm on her convictions and keep abortion legal, and then have Baltar interrupt it by saying, "Yeah, but actually we won't survive as a species if we keep that up, what about the white board number that's oh-so-important to you, Madame President? And now I'm going to announce blah blah blah." Laura Roslin stands by her convictions, which is consistent with how she acted with the "I am the messenger of the gods and I will lead us to Earth" stories, and it's even more consistent with Baltar's previous logical/science-y/sneaky/douche-baggy characterizations.
My favorite of the "Like a Boss" videos
[youtube nvCiNEZNOg8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvCiNEZNOg8 youtube]
I love the political maneuvering being taken up a notch, what with Roslin's having to decide on the abostion policy and Baltar going all Slytherin on us again. I love that the show takes time out to consider things like abortion in the face of survival and that it treats it thoughtfully and presents both sides of the issue.
Doc Cottle for the win of all time.
Oh, Roslin, I don’t know what to think of you 🙁 I understand why she’s doing away with abortion, but it seems like it should be a last minute measure and, as far as we can tell, she hasn’t tried any alternative methods to increase the birth rate. First of all, I don’t trust Baltar’s data- it seems too convenient that he just happened to do it weeks ago, and if he did, why didn’t he tell anyone? And secondly, I feel like repopulating the human race should be a priority after they find a home planet. They barely have enough supplies as it is, can they really afford a population boom? Of course, they don’t know how long it’ll take them to get to Earth, if they can get there at all, but shouldn’t they at least wait a liiiiiiittle longer?
Baltar, you sneaky bastard! Does he actually have a grand plan or is he just power hungry? For the most part, I liked Roslin as president, but I’m excited to see what would happen if Baltar was elected. Plus, it would give Roslin time to bond with Adama <3
I also love the total lack of music when Garner dies. So perfect
Oh, it's never a good time to have a baby. 😉
I saw Baltar's data as a total Scotty (from Star Trek) move. It's the kind of calculation that, once set up, would only take a minute or so to run, so he could have done it on the fly while Roslin was in the room. But you tell people it takes longer so you look like more of a genius when you defy their expectations. Remember, Baltar first set these calculations up in the second episode when the fleet lost half of its water stores
That’s true, but I feel like he should have said “ok, let me run the data, I’ll get back to you in an hour or so”, and then mucked around for a bit to make it look like he was doing work, and THEN presented it to her. It just seems suspicious that he was knew there was a real chance that the human race could be extinct but didn’t do anything, especially since Roslin already doubts him (although he doesn’t realize to what extent because of the whole Six vision thing). I guess maybe he’s so upset at her for doubting him that he doesn’t really care if he seems sketchy and just wants to show her up all the time?
See, *THIS* is why I love this show. Right here. So few other shows would be willing to tackle abortion in this way. And the kicker of it is, ROSLIN HAS A POINT.
(I never thought that Baltar was lying about his calculations- given the number of people who keep dying in Cylon attacks and as a result of stupid shit, yeah, I can see where those numbers would come from. Thinking he might have been making it all up adds a layer of OMGWTFBBQ.)
So yeah. I think this is a hard issue because humanity is dying out. And it is a mess and there's personal autonomy and then there's well, when you're all that's left, do you have a duty to try and bring back the population? Baltar places himself against Roslin not because he believes it (I think he doesn't actually give a FUCK) but because it's against Roslin.
The other interesting thing about this episode is it gives us a glimpse into the style of federalism there is in the 12 Colonies- there is Gemonese Law, and there is Colonial Law, and while Colonial Law trumps Gemonese law in some areas, what about others? Is there something like a Commerce Clause that limits what the Quorum has power over?
I WANT TO KNOWWWWWWW #dorkdorkdork
I always views the different colonies as like the states in the USA. There are state laws and federal laws and rules about who can legislate what. I never really thought about how the details might work out in the BSG 'verse.
I so want a copy of the Colonial Charter. Desperatly.
The Wiki says people have been dying at the rate of about 2.1 people per day. I can't math, so I don't know how long that would take to get to 0, but it seems like it could happen fairly quickly. (My calculations say 65 years [starting from 50,000], but I could be drastically wrong?)
OK, so I mentioned in one review how there are few things that make me angrier than someone making the decisions over a woman’s body. Well, an episode that deals with abortion certainly fills the necessary quota for me to stare at the screen and mime throttling people. Ahem. So yeah, the woman who speaks for Gemenon? I hate her. Probably because the way Gemenon’s been portrayed so far is my personal idea of hell. And the fact that women had to be smuggled onto the Galactica to get an abortion – which up until this episode was legal – now that’s obscene, lady! Urgh, even her choice of words when describing her distaste for abortion made me angry.
“If we want to save the human race, we’d better start having babies.” (Why, Adama? Whyyyy?) Having babies is one thing. Raising them and most importantly wanting to raise them is quite another. The fact of the matter is that merely raising that number on the board isn’t doing anything for the human race; children need more than to be born in order to actually live a life.
I appreciate how difficult it was for Roslin to make this decision but I cannot agree with her at all, if only because this subject is a particularly sensitive one for me. I never thought I’d say this – because, man, is it weird saying this – but Gaius was in the right for me at the end of the episode. I’m not delusional enough to think he said those things out of the goodness of his heart (it is Gaius Baltar we’re talking about) but everything he said made sense to me and basically reflected my whole opinion on the subject. The right to controlling your own body is a freedom and if these freedoms start being taken away, then what?
One last thing: I love Doc Cottle. Seriously, his ‘subtle hint’ at asylum at the beginning was awesome – I believe I may have applauded a little bit.
Having babies is one thing. Raising them and most importantly wanting to raise them is quite another. The fact of the matter is that merely raising that number on the board isn’t doing anything for the human race; children need more than to be born in order to actually live a life.
Well said!
BEAR MCREARY BEAR MCREARY
didn't say it enough in my review.
ALL THE AWARDS.
Anyone watching the new season of Eureka? It's completely obvious that Bear is coring it now- I want to lol every time I hear the dramatic BSG-esque music because it's EUREKA.
Wait, really? Now I have even more reasons to get into that series.
Haha yup. He may have been doing it since the first part of the season, but in the second half it's become INCREDIBLY obvious. The ~dramatic scenes~ sound like the Cylon battles now, which is kind of hilarious since half the time it's Carter doing something ridiculous with this hugely dramatic music behind it. They even used "Wander my Friends" for one of the scenes which made me lol/get all nostalgic.
I thought Eureka just got cancelled?
He also did the music for Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. And yes, it's a total boss.
SyFy cancelled production of episodes for the 6th season, but they are currently airing the end of the 4th season. They haven't even started showing the 5th season yet, but are committed to show all of the 5th and final season.
And they’re giving them an extra episode to wrap the story up. Still upset about the decision *grumbles*
He also did the first season of Human Target, which was one reason I enjoyed it. After that they dumped him, changed the show and now it's cancelled. Just sayin'
Bear McCreary, Murray Gold and Ben Foster are the best television music composer alive right now. They are all just massively brilliant. But Bear is the best
No love for Michael Gianchino from LOST. (no, I'm not sure I spelled that right and I'm too lazy to check. Sorry. Dill with it.)
Michael Giacchino, who also scored Star Trek, Ratatouille, and The Incredibles, all of which are fantastic. Yes.
He also did Alias… which has some of the best scoring of a tv show EVER.
Oh wow. You are absolutely correct
/hangs head in shame
DO NOT LOOK AT THE SOUNDTRACKS BEYOND SEASON 2 YET. (TRACK TITLES ARE SPOILERS!!!)
You know what is more mind-boggling? He was like 25 when he took over composing all the music for BSG. Way to make my 25 look like a loser, Bear.
No kidding.
I had a professor in college who was fond of saying "By the time Mozart was my age, he'd been dead for 20 years" Kind of puts my lazy life in perspective
I MEAN SERIOUSLY Y'ALL
[youtube SlcUwUwjLrs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlcUwUwjLrs youtube]
[youtube lEhlAA85_tY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEhlAA85_tY youtube]
Most badass musical performance EVEr
BEAR MCCREARY NEW BSG LIVE PIANO CD!
http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=7144
Just announced, looks awesome. Song Titles, liner note comments may spoil through s4, but OMGAWESOME!
"Continuity is so strange on this show, but that’s not a complaint. It just works so well because the flow of it is so natural that the passage of a month is so unreal to me."
See, I disagree, especially with this episode because I don't care for this pacing of Dee and Lee's relationship. We had moments before the previous ep where it was clear Dee was interested, and Lee at least didn't seem averse to the idea, and that was basically it. And then Billy dies. And in the next ep, Dee and Lee have sex. Yeah, writers? I think you could have handled that better. At least show us the moment when they decide to have sex rather than jumping straight into it? Something between the previous ep and now? Anything? I think having all that happen off screen cheapens Billy's death and makes these two characters look kinda callous.
And sorry Roslin, never gonna be okay with your decision to ban abortions. I get the reasoning, I do. But one can assume contraceptives are in limited supply and we're told there's a pretty large group of people opposing abortion for religious reasons. That is certainly not a good environment in which to ban abortion. I don't care for her decision at all.
But I hate Baltar's politicking more. Even if he genuinely opposes Roslin's decision from a moral standpoint, I just cannot take his self-righteousness about it.
I agree with you on the Lee/Dee thing. I think their relationship is kind of cute, but the writers did stack the odds against them by doing it the way they did. I've heard a LOT of people get really pissed at Dee because it seems like she doesn't care at all about Billy's death and moves right on to Lee before the guy is even cold.
I mean, I assume there was a little time that passed for her to grieve and talk things over with Lee, it's just a shame we didn't see it.
Yeah, I'm familiar with their being a backlash against Dee for this reason, too. And I hate that cause I figure the writers are to blame for not showing us any of the stuff that I would expect to have happened given what we've seen of her personality. I don't want fans blaming Dee when iffy writing is at fault.
WEIRD! I totally get this? But going from one ep to the next so quickly, it honestly doesn't seem weird to me. I imagine sticking a week in between these things must also highlight the oddity of the speed of it all.
Whatever, I fucking love Dee and I'll fight to the death to defend her.
Agreed on Dee and Lee's relationship. I was really…surprised that we see them jump into a relationship just an episode after Billy dies. Obviously, time's passed (a month or a couple of months, I think, judging by Lee's recovery) but I would have warmed more to the relationship if we'd seen it develop.
I agree with your comment about pacing- it’s one of the main issues I’m having with the show so far. I can’t tell if the giant leaps forward are because of the way the show aired (maybe there was a large break between Sacrifice and this episode, therefore making Dee and Lee’s relationship seem less sudden and callous) or if they’re just like that week after week. Maybe my problem is that instead of watching 1 episode every week, I’m watching 1 every 24 hours. There’s also the problem that since they’re in space, there isn’t much the producers can do visually to show the passage of time, therefore making it difficult to get into the mindset that a significant amount of time has passed. Basically, I can’t tell if I’m the problem or if there is something genuinely strange about the pacing.
If you're curious, this aired the week after the last episode on usual schedule. So time jumps on the show don't correspond to episode schedule breaks or anything.
Thank you! Poor Billy, all he got was 30 seconds of Roslin looking sad
Yeah, in season two I start having the feeling that the bulk of the show is taking place between episodes, and that's not a feeling I should be getting.
I really love that BSG tackled the issue of abortion, and I even like the way it's dealt with here. Instead of raising questions about when life begins, the religious arguments against abortion are completely dismissed as soon as they're raised. Because the colonies have a president who has been pro choice her entire life and has spent her entire career fighting for a woman's rights.
But then the show takes a different turn. It asks if the survival of a species trumps the rights of the individual. And everything just gets sticky and messy and I love it. Is there a point when the species becomes more important? Have they reached that point on BSG? Adama certainly thinks so, and so does Roslin. Baltar may or may not, but it almost doesn't matter because he's just going to take any opportunity he can get.
One of the more interesting things here is the contrast between Roslin's strong pro-choice background and her treatment of Sharon a few episodes ago (I'm forgetting the name of the episode). In hindsight, Roslin's order to abort Sharon's fetus shows that she doesn't believe Sharon is anything but a machine, certainly not a person who deserves rights to bodily autonomy. It says a lot about her view of cylons and how little that has changed since the beginning (as opposed to Adama, who is slowly coming around to the idea that cylons are people, too)
On a different note, I spent the first half of the episode looking at Garner and thinking "Didn't he die in Black Market?" I sometimes have a hard time telling actors apart.
I love the sticky, gray morality that this show relentlessly drags into the light. But I do think Roslin's blanket ban on abortion is a clumsy way to deal with a very politically delicate situation. Can we have at least some exceptions to the ban? And, as Mark suggested, some means of incentivising reproduction? I'm not sure what incentives you can offer when the traumatised remains of humanity are on the run in deep space, and probably not thinking about the future beyond surviving through the week, but there must be something.
I'm not sure what incentives you can offer when the traumatised remains of humanity are on the run in deep space, and probably not thinking about the future beyond surviving through the week, but there must be something.
Heh, this is the reason why I don't think they should be having babies at this point, anyway. In order to choose to have a child, I think most people need to be able to look into the future and see some semblance of stability.
The container reminded me of Jurassic Park, so I was afraid Tyrol would get his arm eaten or something.
ARGH DAMMIT ROSLIN. I liked you, but this is fucked up. I know she isn't happy about her decision, and she didn't do it for a purely political reason, but this is not okay. No matter how badly they want to increase the human population, you don't pull this shit. I don't even want to rant about how outlawing abortion doesn't prevent it from happening, but I can't believe that someone who claims to have been fighting for women's rights her entire life wouldn't know that. Or that she would turn to Baltar for advice when she knows that he can't be trusted. And Double fuck you to Adama for pushing her into this, and triple fuck you to Baltar, who I'm going to take a wild guess and say lied his ass off, the result being that women lost their right to chose and that he wins political points. At least Roslin was torn up about it? Ugh. All of them need to stop.
About the incentives and stuff, though, that might work if they created an environment in which the women felt secure having a child. But the fleet is still without a planet, or any concrete plans on when they'll get to one, and there have been supply issues in the past. Babies aren't exactly low maintenance. While humanity does need to reproduce, are they really in any position for a population explosion? And I think any society that is capable of interstellar travel can probably muster fertility treatments so that the people who do want kids can have tons. When there's room for them.
Phew. Rant over.
Oh, Lee and Starbuck. It really sucks that they're parting without resolving their issues, especially since they'll be extra awkward when they run into each other.
If there are Velociraptors on Galactica I will DIE! Everything could do with a Jurassic Park crossover
Agreed. For instance, Hagrid's dream summer vacation spent working at the park. I mean, venom-spitting dinosaurs? HEAVEN ON EARTH.
I bet somewhere in the Forbidden Forest Hagrid has a whole heard of dinosaurs roaming around <3
Anytime Lee and Kara are not friends/fighting, I look like this:
<img src="http://zackthemacgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/cute-cry-animation-4.gif" />
(and I have looked like this A LOT over the course of the show)
According to the BattlestarWiki, there are some errors in the timeline during this season. So anyone who feels that nothing seems to add up is actually completely right.
Is there a place that lists this? I would totally be down to read about continuity errors. They fascinate me! Did BSG have a show bible like LOST did to keep track of things?
They did have a bible which was put online after the series ended. It was written by RDM during the gap between making the miniseries and the first season being ordered.
Just from skimming it it looks like it's not so much about setting out the order of when things happened as providing character and setting information (there's a whole section about how Galactica operates, how FTL works, things like that).
The Wiki has a whole page about The Season Two Timeline Discontinuity.
New reader to your reviews although long tome BSG fan!!!
LOVE YOUR FRAKKING COMMENTARY!!!!
That. Is. All.
THANK YOU NEW READER!!!
After seeing this one, I wondered for a while what an episode about homosexuality would be like. Could you possibly condone someone willingly removing themselves from the gene pool when humanity is facing extinction? Of course, you could just have them donate sperm or eggs, or have them lie back and think of Caprica once in a while. Because with the extreme situation the show portrays, it can come to a conclusion like that, just like the criminalization of abortion, and it doesn't come off as any kind of a value judgement on our own world.
In contrast, I've heard that at some point in Doctor Who's run, I forget if it was the old or new series, there was a script that featured the Doctor advocating pro-life views. It was vetoed, because you can't just insult half your audience like that and expect them to ever look at the show the same way.
That particular episode wouldn't be possible, because the Colonials don't consider heterosexual and homosexual relationships in different lights and never have in their entire history.
I don't know where that info came from but I haven't gotten that notion from the show. It makes me irritable actually – if that's what the writers and showrunners intended, maybe show some damn same-sex couples? Show not tell, basically.
Background info not explicitly stated. Homophobia has never existed in the Colonies and neither do the words "heterosexual" and "homosexual", let alone "straight" and "gay". It'd be hard to state the *non*existence of things onscreen. As to whether future episodes contain homosexual relationships or not, that'd be a spoiler.
Yeah, but you don't need to use certain words in order to depict those relationships.
Off the top of my head, here's some of the romantic/sexual relationships the show has covered: Starbuck/Zak, Starbuck/Lee, Starbuck/Baltar, Starbuck/Sam, Dee/Billy, Dee/Lee, Lee/Black-Market-woman, Roslin/Adama, Baltar/Six, Tyrol/Boomer, Sharon/Helo, Tigh/Ellen, Ellen/Lee, insinuated Ellen/Adama, male Pegasus members raping or attempting to rape female cylons, male pilots with dead girlfriends, etc.
Basically, we've had a lot of relationships. None of them to my knowledge were same-sex relationships. If there were some up to this point, they were well in the background. What I'm saying is that it looks like a very heterosexual universe. If there's a non-existence of homophobia one would expect people to openly be in same-sex relationships, but we never see that.
A character doesn't have to say 'we accept same-sex relationships' in order to show a universe approving of such relationships. I'm saying if these relationships are normal in their universe, why are they so invisible on the show?
Good point.
The only same-sex relationship I see is the one between me and Gaeta.
HEY-OH.
speaking of Gaeta, WHERE DID HE GO??!! I demand a Gaeta episode!
Ahahaha, I ship it.
What about Starbuck/Kat? Oh wait, their hate-sex was just in my head 🙁
Also, I'm saying if these relationships are normal in their universe, why are they so invisible on the show?
I had the exact same reaction to Harry Potter and the weak "Dumbledore was gay, it just wasn't important to mention" deal that J.K. Rowling dropped after the books were already completed.
I didn't say one did (have to use certain words in order to depict those relationships). I tried to make the last two sentences of my paragraph unrelated to each other.
It's hard to comment further without spoilers.
It would be interesting to know which run of Doctor Who such an episode was mooted for. Not least because at present a "pro-life" (really not a UK term) episode would alienate only about fifth of the audience. The most recent reliable poll (by MORI in 2009) had 57% in agreement with abortion, 19% against and the remaining 24% various flavours of uncommitted or reticent in giving an opinion. For most of the population it's really not a contentious issue. Although of course there some for whom it is.
I understand why many felt that Roslin was acting out of character in this episode but I think that was exactly the point. It was exploring a situation in which she feels compelled – and quite wrongly, I think – to go against her own beliefs. When it's juxtaposed against the leadership disaster aboard the Pegasus I saw it as an exploration of the unforeseen consequences of really bad leadership decisions.
"Is it okay to imagine that those pins are actually Admiral Adama’s? This is my head canon and you cannot take it away from me."
Well they've got to be haven't they? It's not like they have any other commander pins laying around of course they could have gotten the jeweller to make a new pair like Adama's admiral pins. Actually scratch the whole idea Lee is the third commander Adama has installed on Pegasus meaning he would have given his pins away already.
You are so unprepared! Bwahhahhahhahhah!
I am so pro-choice that when Roslin was giving her speech I was yelling at her. Yelling at the fake president on the fake TV show. But godsdamn, lady.
Plus (and I say this as someone who believes that a woman, no matter her situation, should ALWAYS have a choice), it does that old trope of painting abortion as a pregnant teenager, scared to tell her parents, but otherwise in all ways capable of bearing a child (physically if not necessarily mentally). When in reality, yes, that does happen, but abortion happens for SO MANY OTHER FUCKING REASONS. And to not acknowledge that? To not have Roslin wrestle with those very real issues of health and safety and what-if-she's-raped-life-of-the-mother EVERYTHING ELSE? That is piss poor characterization and writing.
Sorry, the whole thing makes me so angry just typing it out. And yes, Mark, you're right – there could have been so much more done! Incentive programs for babies, basically.
“That is piss poor characterization and writing. “
Yup. This is basically my reaction to this episode. Not ‘Bad Roslin!’, but ‘Bad Writers!’ It seems like an unnecessary bit of character assassination to me.
Similar to the Dee thing, actually. There’s no reason Dee shouldn’t move on after Billy’s death and choose the man she wants to be with, but again the poor writing makes her look callous and flighty because we don’t see the transition enough.
It’s a shame, because the writing on BSG is usually so good but I just feel like they really dropped the ball with their characterisation mid season two.
Edited out the last sentence of your comment because it was expectation spoilery. Even if it's vague, put any discussion of upcoming events, even if it's just a subjective opinion, in rot13.
Ahhh sorry! It wasn't important anyway, I'll just leave it.
…it does that old trope of painting abortion as a pregnant teenager, scared to tell her parents, but otherwise in all ways capable of bearing a child (physically if not necessarily mentally). When in reality, yes, that does happen, but abortion happens for SO MANY OTHER FUCKING REASONS.
AGREED SO HARD ABOUT THIS. I'm so tired of abortion being portrayed as something only 'teenagers who are afraid of their parents' resort to. I mean, on this show especially, what if one of the women on the Galactica was faced with an unwanted pregnancy? Someone like Starbuck, say? I can't even begin to imagine Starbuck wanting to go along with a pregnancy given the limited number of experienced pilots, the Cylon attacks etc. On that note, I'd have really liked to have seen one of the female characters react to this new law. Because I sure as hell would have been pretty vocal about it.
Your comment reminded me of something I forgot in my anger: according to Gemenon law, that poor pregnant teenager is her parents' property. WTF. Can we please get some fleet-wide legislation stating that women and girls aren't chattel?
Totally agreed. For example, in addition to the examples you cite, what if Roslin herself got pregnant while she still thought she was going to die in a few months from cancer? What if a pilot got pregnant when they need all the pilots they can get? Sigh. Lazy writing.
"Shit isn’t just real; I can already tell that there is literally not a single way I can be prepared for how season two is ending."
YOU HAVE NO IDEA. PREPARE FOR YOUR BRAIN TO TURN TO GALACTIC GOO.
It's really fun reading this and knowing Mark has already seen the rest of the season. The very next episode in particular. Nothing could have prepared me for the genius of Urnq Onygne.
Nothing could have prepared me for the genius of Urnq Onygne.
Same here.
I have weird and mixed feelings about this episode. The way abortion is handled here is a very political thing… which is probably true to life, but I don't like it. It feels like women and their bodies are dehumanized in order to become political tokens and idk. I just hate it when abortion is used as political bargaining chip instead of as something that concerns real women with real feelings.
Idk. Overall I finished this episode and felt like I was watching a Very Special Episode, and I don't like feeling like that when I'm watching BSG. Besides, Everwood totally did it better.
the gemonese do not all live on one ship, but like any sub-culture (are they really a sub-culture if they inhabited an entire planet? well, maybe not, but) they tend to stick together where they can, especially since they have very strong religious beliefs and are somewhat socially persecuted for them.
I seem to be kind of alone in that I understood Roslin's decision and … I mean, I don't like it, but I don't feel like I'm much in a position to question it. If she'd done it for political appeasement, I would have hated it – but she clearly didn't, because she let the Gemenese girl get her abortion first, thus effectively cancelling out any favor this might have accrued with the Gemenese, at least. She clearly didn't want to do it, clearly wasn't doing it because she wanted to limit women's sexual freedom or because she thought some religious statement told her to.
But eighteen years. I'm sorry, I certainly can't even comprehend what that means. I literally cannot imagine facing a reality where all of humanity is likely going to disappear in less than two decades. Now, speaking with that acknowledged, I will say that I don't think criminalizing abortion would be a very effective way to deal with that, because as they've always done, people with unwanted pregnancies will find a way to end them one way or another. But I also don't think there are any apparent options – how will they incentivize it? Give couples money to get pregnant? They've said money doesn't mean much anymore. Are people going to be lining up to be parents in this climate? The fleet is already facing shortages, not to mention an unconscionably bleak outlook. Would it be any more ethical to conscript parents to care for children that are born? Maybe the reality is that the only conditions that would lead to a birth rate high enough to ensure the survival of the human race would be ones in which there is clearly a real future and generous access to resources.
And the fact is, by the time that's attained, it may be too late.
I think what the writers set out here was to create a scenario in which a character finds that his or her principles run up against a very real problem, one that possibly can't be solved by sticking to those principles. I can see something possibly problematic about using such a gendered issue, but at the same time, it also meant they could demonstrate the extent of Roslin's conviction, the extent to which she was being tried, and the fact that she didn't make her decision lightly. Frankly, I think it would be short-sighted of me to pretend that there could never be a situation where even my fundamental ideals would be tested. So far over the course of this show, these characters have left innocent people to die, tortured and raped prisoners without facing repercussions, killed each other without any extensive repercussions. Roslin just a few episodes ago ordered a forced abortion, which in my mind isn't any better than restricting it. Yes, there was a not insubstantial fear concerning allowing that pregnancy to continue – but the very real possibility of the extinction of the human race in less than twenty years is just as serious, in my mind.
Again, I'm not saying I agree with it or think it's right, but I think there was a lot more to this plot than 'Roslin made a bad decision.'
I agree with you. I think this episode is asking a fundamental question about what happens when the rights of the individual come into conflict with the survival of the species. If everyone's going to be gone in a generation, then the individual suddenly matters a whole lot less. I can definitely see where Roslin was coming from and, like you, appreciate that this wasn't an easy decision for her to make.
I'm with you. This didn't actually feel so out of place for me when it came to Roslin, either – she has been playing the numbers game right from Day 1 of the miniseries, when she made the choice to leave the sublight ships behind.
This is just one in a string of necessary, but brutally unfair, choices she's had to make, and frankly, if she was facing the prospect that the human race would die out on its own in less than a generation, it makes sense. In a sick, awful way, when you look at it as really a matter of survival, plain and simple, it makes sense.
I agree with you too. And I am fiercely pro-choice myself. However… extinction of the human race, that is HUGE. Much more than my mind can even comprehend actually. It's a horrible decision, but… I don't know, maybe I would make the same one in Roslin's position.
Now, do I wish the writers had spent more time, spinning out the bigger issue of abortion, not using a pregnant teenager, or used it more than as a source of politickin' like they do here? Sure. But I still like that this show made me go "ohhh…. wait, shit. I feel the same way Roslin does. Oh god, what would I choose? Is that the wrong decision? Or was that the right one, but… SHIT."
I really love that in a show.
Just to break up the SRS BSNS for a bit, I just talked to my Mum about Mark Watches and she said "You know, whenever you talk about Mark, I imagine him to be a skinny white guy with thick horn-rimmed glasses." and I was all LOL NO.
LOL LOL LOL.
Surprisingly, THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE THINK I LOOK LIKE! I think it's the expectation that nerddom represents that stereotype, and I'm sort of the most mega-nerd around, so clearly I must be that!!!
Well, the avatar pic has glasses so at least that much is right?
Mark is becoming a household word lol
It kind of has to be in my household because every day I'm like 'WELP it's 9pm and that means I'm off for an hour or so to Mark Watches! See ya suckas!'
Or words to that effect.
It's the same in our house, because my daughter and I both are big fans of Mark Reads/Watches, so it's our nightly ritual to watch an episode of whatever is being reviewed and to talk about the books too. I really should thank you, Mark, because we've gotten much closer since we started on Doctor Who (a show that she LOVES).
Pretty sure my roommate is sick of me mentioning Mark every other sentence. "LOL MARK SAID SOMETHING FUNNY" "LOL MARK IS NOT PREPARED" "TIME TO WATCH BATTLESTAR FOR MARK WATCHES"
As much as you think you are not prepared,…you really don't understand just how NOT prepared you are.
I agree with this (except for Everwood which I've never seen).
While I don't like Roslin's decision, I think I would been able to accept it more if we actually saw in the episode the heavy personal ramifications it would have. Instead, the focus is very much political in nature such that I don't think the episode gives this story the levity it deserves. It makes me feel like the story came from writers who do simply view abortion as a political issue and not a personal one, as that's how abortion seems to come across in this episode.
Yep yep. I mean, it's definitely true that most politicians DO view abortion as a issue that can be used to win votes, but I hate that BSG just left it like that. I mean, it's pretty obvious that the writers are interested in taking contemporary political issues and framing them in a sci-fi narrative. But I think it bothers me that abortion is just another "contemporary political issue" vs some that affects real life people today personally, if that makes sense.
(Also, Everwood is the BEST TEEN SHOW EVER AND EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH IT. THE END.)
Everwood was awesome! Go watch it, people!
I love Everwood! High-five, fellow fan!
EVERWOOOOOOOOOD <3333
"God, I should never direct anything because I’m already thinking how hilarious it would be to have Martin Lawrence in every other scene of this episode. I would literally make television that only I would find funny."
Well he shouldn't be in scenes should he, that'd only encourage him to wear more fat suits and put on that awful act. Nobody needs to see that.
No, you know those people signing for the deaf during the news and whatnot? That's what you want. A little Martin Lawrence in the corner of your screen, emotin' shit.
<3
Y'know, sometimes when I'm watching the show I forget how young all the Viper pilots are. I mean, he's only what, 28? 29? when this:
<img src="http://www.frak-that.com/217/images/217_cap382.jpg" width="503" height="283">
happened, and then all I could think was "oh no, he's not going to be Captain Apollo anymore! He's not going to fly Vipers anymore! WHAT ABOUT APOLLO AND STARBUCK DAMMIT? NO MORE HOT SPACE PILOTS TOGETHER THEY NEED TO BE TOGETHER!!!!!!"
And I love the scene where they made up. Oh Gods, pilots made me a shipper and THERE IS ONLY PAIN AHEAD WHY DO I LOVE THESE FICTIONAL PEOPLE SO MUCH?
<img src="http://zackthemacgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/cute-cry-animation-4.gif">
Aw, Lee looks all scared to be taking command of Pegasus. He's so good at it, though! Especially compared to the last few Commanders of the Pegasus 😛
Fun fact: according to the Writer's Bible, the original plan was for Roslin to ban abortion in Season One, not Season Two. Cumulative curbings of civil liberties for reasons of security would have been what led Adama to put her in the brig at the end of the season.
Birth control would also have been banned, except for female pilots for obvious reasons.
Wow, that would have been interesting. I'm kinda glad they didn't go that way, it would have been harder for me to like Roslin's character if they went that route.
Birth control would also have been banned, except for female pilots for obvious reasons.
This reminds me of Pern, the Anne McCaffrey series. Female dragonriders apparently often try to induce miscarriages, because they don't have the time to stop dragonriding because of a pregnancy. Even when they do have kids, they don't raise them–dragonriders die so often that any kids are fostered to the community to raise.
Abortion used to be the one issue I sided with the Republicans on, because I believed the soul was present from conception. After I realized that didn't make sense because the brain wasn't functional at the development stages in question, I became pro-choice. I still don't approve of abortion in the last stages, where the brain *is* developed, unless necessary to save the life of the mother, but I think most people agree.
I understand where you are coming from. As a Christian, this was an issue I struggled with, and it took me a long time to come down firmly on one side or the other. But after a lot of thought, reading, and talking to people, I found that there was no rational argument that could make me anything but pro-choice.
One thing that got me thinking was my Mythological Studies teacher saying that a lot of pregnancies spontaneously abort, so we would have to have a ton more funerals than we do!
Yeah, whenever people talk about giving legal personhood to fetuses/embryos, I don't think they realize what they're actually saying. Potential people, sure, but there are plenty of miscarriages that happen before people even know they're pregnant, and saying we should treat that like a person has died is just kind of silly.
Ugh. This episode. I don't object to abortion as a plot consideration, necessarily, especially given that this is a show explicitly about the survival of the human race. And considering that, there are bound to be all kinds of issues about civil rights vs. the wishes/needs of the collective.
I start side-eyeing the episode a little because this is the first time this has come up, apparently. It makes it feel like a Very Special Episode instead of something that's integrated into the plot. I side-eye it a little more, because while the choice is being made by a female leader, and she's approaching it as a difficult choice … the episode was written by a male writer, directed by a guy, and is in a show with a male showrunner. So, from a Watsonian perspective it's a lady making this questionable decision, and I want to engage and say, well, is this a defensible decision, if not one I can agree with? But at the same time, I'm conscious that this isn't actually a real life happening: this is a female character who's being used to tell a story, and in this case the people telling the story are guys. So there's that.
But okay, even leaving that all aside.
BSG has this whole major thread (or maybe vein, to keep the metaphor related) of fascination with sexual reproduction, in a way that's really linked up with its fascination with body horror. Body horror with the many squickily organic parts of the Cylon races, and the disgust the humans feel confronting that. Reproduction from the Cylon obsession with it, the forced pregnancies on Caprica, and Sharon's pregnancy, and the stem cell-analogous miracle healing of Roslin.
And you know, fair enough: this is potent stuff, and it tends to hit people hard in the conscious mind and the id, both. And this is stuff that's often connected with religion in all kinds of ways, and this is at least in part a show about two forms of religion in conflict.* So I see what they're going for, and there's interesting stuff there.
But it's all so damn focused on the bodies of women. It's the female Cylons who get hypersexualized – they're all sexy and yet dangerous and othered. It's female characters who are sexually assaulted. It's women subjected to forced pregancy, first by the Cylons, and now in the Fleet through the choice of a woman. Even things like Starbuck flying the Cylon raider – it's a woman groping around in this messy, gooey organic environment, and she magically instinctively knows what to do, while the men do not, and…okay, this sentence is going places I didn't intend. Uh. But seriously, all the body horror stuff? Seems to be focused on female characters. At a certain point I start going, "SO WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH WOMEN'S BODIES? DESPITE WHAT YOU MAY HAVE HEARD, WE DO NOT ACTUALLY HAVE TEETH DOWN THERE."
Plus, all this fascination with heterosexual sex and reproduction, and queerness, let alone genderqueerness, never getting brought up at all. Yes, I know, Word of God says this society has never had homophobia, and it's just not an issue. But in the text, at this point? What have we got? (Naq Tnrgn unf n tnl ebznapr – gubhtu va gur jrovfbqrf, abg va gur npghny fubj. Naq Pnva jnf univat na nssnve jvgu Crtnfhf!Fvk. Ohg va gur ynggre pnfr, V guvax gung npghnyyl znxrf vg jbefr, gung gur ybar rknzcyr bs dhrre jbznaubbq vf gur onq, fpnel yrfovna yrnqre jub yrgf ure sbezre ybire or ivpvbhfyl encrq sbe zbaguf naq gura vf zheqrerq ol ure. JGS.)
So, tl;dr: it's…it's all a bit uncomfortable-making, for me. And I am not so much a fan of this episode. Yeah. *climbs down from soapbox*
* Though TBH, I have some issues with apparently Greco-Roman paganism combined with the idea that this is a society without sexism. Those Greeks and Romans, always noted for supporting the rights of women. But if I start thinking about that too hard I get dizzy, so.
This comment is basically all my thoughts distilled in one place. I think I've voiced similar concerns in bits and pieces here and there, but here you've said it all and I so approve.
Big yes to your Doylist issues with this episode, to all the women-focused body horror, the male-gaze-ness of the female cylons, the lack of queerness coupled with the strong exploration of heterosexual relationships. Basically all of it. Thanks for writing this, and I'm just kind of glad that I know I'm not the only one seeing these things on the show.
I never considered the point you make in your footnote, but now that you mention it that is indeed pretty interesting.
SO WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH WOMEN'S BODIES? DESPITE WHAT YOU MAY HAVE HEARD, WE DO NOT ACTUALLY HAVE TEETH DOWN THERE.
These are probably two of the best sentences that I've read all week. Everything you said was interesting, and I agree with you.
This was a great read.
I'm not going to think too hard about the Greco-Roman stuff and its implications on sexism and classism, but I think it's a little consistent that women are property on Gemenon, which is the most religious of the colonies. Anyway, you're right, and it's pretty consistent with modern visions of Classical Greece and the Roman Republic; we focus on the fun stuff like gods, festivals, and erudite great men, and not so much on the treatment of women, slaves and non-citizens, and the lower classes.
Just to clarify, they didn't say women were "property" on Gemenon (in fact, Gemenon's apparent elected representative is a woman); they said children are "property" of their parents. Which is something I'm really, really not cool with, but it's not exactly an uncommon sentiment.
Pff, I feel silly. I assumed that it was a reference to women, until recently in the West, being their father's property, or responsibility, until they were married, at which point they became their husband's, because the pregnant "girl" looked like an adult to me. And that there were varying degrees of this, and women like the quorum member came from less strict backgrounds. I think I just assumed the girl was an adult because of her appearance, and completely missed them saying she's a teenager! I'll have to rewatch.
So, minor children are property. That's slightly less unsettling? But still pretty screwed up?
They definitely said she was a teen; I'm pretty sure she was supposed to be sixteen (though of course, I'm sure the actress wasn't). Which yes, it's definitely something I think is screwed up – but in most states in the U.S., for instance, parental notification and sometimes even consent is required for someone under 18 to get an abortion. You also have to be 18+ to say, buy over-the-counter emergency contraception pills. And I don't like either, and think the latter is especially stupid and pointless. I just also wouldn't talk about it the same way as I would customs that treat women as though they were property of their male relatives.
The actress did look older than sixteen–which makes me think, what if it was a visibly younger teen, who still looked a bit childlike, who had asked for the abortion?
And that further makes me think–I'm really glad that no background was given on how Rya got pregnant and why she decided to abort. It was her decision and no judgement was passed about the circumstances, which I like. Too often the abortion debate turns into what is a "justifiable" abortion and what's not, and I'm glad they didn't go there in this episode.
Ehh, the show uses the names of the Greco-Roman gods but I really wouldn't say that they are the same gods, it that makes any sense. I don't see much of Greco-Roman culture in the show.
It's mostly window dressing.
Yeah, I agree. The show is using the superficial stuff like gods and their iconography, and not deeper cultural influences. I don't know how much the gods are changed because this is my first time watching, but they've been consistent in terms of symbolism at the very least. Same is true of Mormon things like the Quorum of Twelve and Kobol/Kolob, right? It's there, but it's not the same.
The Lords of Kobol in their religion have roughly the same jobs at the Classical ones, but really that's as far as it goes. As to the Mormon stuff, they take the names, and pretty much none of the religion.
It's easy to forget that this show is a remake. There was a lot more of Mormonism woven through the original series.
I like this comment! I don't know if it's just me projecting things, but this show does very much feel like it was written by men who think of themselves as feminists. Not that that is a bad thing, but it's still a very male perspective. I don't think this show has much female perspective at all.
this show does very much feel like it was written by men who think of themselves as feminists.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Usually, I don't have much issue with the gender dynamics of the show, and often I applaud them, but more as it goes on, it becomes apparent that it's still made by men. They may be well-meaning men, but you can still tell they are heterosexual men.
Mark, where were you when it was originally airing? I was basically evangelical about the show to anyone who would listen to me. After awhile people just got sick of hearing me talk about how brilliant and magnificent it was/is.
A voice like yours was needed in the darkness. Maybe then the show would have won every frakkin' award that it have won and was never even nominated for…..
Frakkin travesty!
I can tell that Lee leaving is going to be particularly hard on Starbuck, who still hasn’t sorted out her feelings for her friend.
My reaction to this:
<img src="http://zackthemacgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/cute-cry-animation-4.gif" />
And she isn't going to do it anytime soon, considering pilots have a relationship that is as much about what they aren't saying (or doing) to each other, as what they do openly admit.
Oh yes, because forcing people to have children wouldn't make things worse at all. After all, it's not like unwanted children often end up abused at all.
This is insane. What if the baby is malformed or still born? What if it's existence puts the mother at risk? You can't outlaw abortion just because of 'we need babies~' (Also, I swear, when there are large wars or whatever, humans instinctively reproduce as much as possible. I mean, look at the baby booms after the first and second world wars? Y/N?)
To be honest, I skipped most of the abortion stuff. Abortion and pregnancy squicks me out fiercely, so there's not much I can say aside from YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY LEE! It's nice to have you back, though you should probably know, there's a pathetic guy pretending to be you hanging around the black market.
I'm in Houston and Won't Be Able to Post My Oh-So-Interesting Old LJ Posts on Time This Week
Well, that wasn't too bad, but man, has the second half of this season been uneven as all hell (and barely resembling the first half of the season, which I loved).
First of all: Lee/Dualla is SO ANNOYING AND I CANNOT TAKE IT MUCH LONGER. Thanks for skipping an entire month of their fictional relationship and skipping right to the part where they're lovingly frakking in secret and talking to each other naked and being all schmoopy and WHO ARE THESE FUCKING PEOPLE? How did this happen? Why did this happen? STOP HAPPENING. I don't want to spoil Farscape for the people still going through it at the moment (because it's totally the in thing to do), but that one relationship that comes out of nowhere and remains important throughout most of the series? Still makes more sense than this.
Oh wait, I forgot the previouslies. It's so cute when they put scenes in the previouslies we never saw in the first place. Pegasus Six told Baltar to run for president? That's news! Adama assigned an engineer to command Pegasus? Oh, THANKS FOR TELLING US.
Cally!! Chief!! It's good to see you guys again, even if you're only helping start the B plot.
I really have no idea what the situation on Pegasus is supposed to be, and what Apollo's and Starbuck's relations are to the ship, and what they're both supposed to be doing there. Except getting pissy with each other for no apparent reason. I'm not even certain, does Apollo know it was Starbuck who shot him? Did he see?
Cool scene where Starbuck deciphers the garbled transmission. She was like Veronica Mars, with the acumen and the jumping to conclusions! Who was that other female officer with her, though? She's kind of hot; we should see her again. And speaking of hot, where the hell is Seelix?!
Um, I feel like not a lot happened in this episode.
Garner, you stupid fuck. It was pretty frakking awesome when those Basestars jumped in and proceeded to immediately blow the shit out of them. I love those wacky Cylons.
I don't even understand how Garner died or what he was trying to fix and how he was trying to fix it and how it related to the FTL drive and why does everyone die of oxygen deprivation? But it gave Apollo a chance to show his chops in the CIC.
I don't know whether they showed Starbuck and the Vipers upside down to be cool and artistic or whether some idiot flipped the footage. The latter will be confirmed if in a later episode Baltar is standing on the ceiling.
Hi, Gaeta! Here are your three seconds and one line. Bye, Gaeta! Got to fulfill that contract somehow!
The only reason Apollo magically got promoted to Major in the Month That Never Was was so that he could rise to Commander here. And it's easy to cry nepotism, but he did prove himself in the heat of battle, and apparently, there's, like, no one else on the ship who can command Pegasus. This is what happens when you kill Cain. You're left to clean up her mess.
I liked that last Lee/Kara scene. It's nice when they get stuff off their chests and hug away their pain. It's like they're two lost souls connected by spiritual twine.
Right, so the B plot. Abortion rights, woo! I really don't know how much of an impact criminalizing abortion would have without knowing how common abortion is among the fleet. Because, yes, I agree that repopulation is kind of important, and you shouldn't be killing babies when Cylons are wiping out adults all the time. But, yes, I agree that that's a legal right in the Colonies and thus should remain so. And the issue is really clouded when you're in the middle of an election and you don't want to lose an entire legion of potential voters.
Can a vice president run against the president in an election? How the hell does that even work? Because wouldn't he be on both tickets?
I must say, however, that I love Baltar. I mean, I've said it time and time again; he's one of my favorite characters. But man: counseling Roslin one way and then publicly denouncing his own private counsel ahahahaha. He's been upgraded from Bastard to Magnificent Bastard. (Also: whee, Playa, the pretty reporter Baltar totally frakked in a bathroom stall!) Baltar and Lionel Luthor should be pals.
And there was Six with a slow clap, and Adama wasn't even around to appreciate it.
Who was that other female officer with her, though? She's kind of hot; we should see her again. And speaking of hot, where the hell is Seelix?!
I SECOND THESE THINGS.
I don't know whether they showed Starbuck and the Vipers upside down to be cool and artistic or whether some idiot flipped the footage. The latter will be confirmed if in a later episode Baltar is standing on the ceiling.
This made me laugh, but according to the wiki it's actually that the Pegasus' flight pods have the Vipers land upside down. Probably due to magnets or some shit.
Here's the thing that really bugs the shit out of me about the abortion decision. I mean, aside from women losing rights over their bodies.
Where are you going to house all these new babies? What are you going to feed them? Where are you going to set up daycare centers so that parents who have roles vital to the running of the fleet can keep performing those roles?
I understand the human race needs to be rebuilt. But in their current state, the fleet have very finite resources. Perhaps getting some sort of stability and renewable resources might be a good idea before encouraging a huge baby boom?
I totally get the save the individual vs. save the society dilemma Roslin is facing here. But what I don't understand is why she didn't take to the airwaves, lay the situation out, and appeal to people to start making with the productive nooky. How about promises that children born under the program will receive rations and be given opportunities on the better ships? What about assistance with adoption programs for those who are willing to bear children but not to raise them? It seems like she jumped straight to the harshest solution.
However, having said that, I can't help but think that you'd have to be a pretty selfish person to get an abortion–absent danger to your life, rape, or similar drastic situations–when you know that the human race will disappear in your own lifetime if the birth rate doesn't rise. Think about that! The entire human race, gone.
Everybody in the BSG society is making sacrifices. Some people are on mining ships working their bodies to exhaustion or death to keep this society running. It isn't like they are being given a choice in the matter. I am NOT saying that women's reproductive choice should therefore be taken away as well. I'm just saying that if your normal internal calculus for whether you want/can have a baby does not take a DRASTIC kind of shift when having a baby means saving humanity, then you are a strange kind of person. That doesn't mean the calculation would always end up in the "have baby" column, but certainly it means that the relative weights of good/bad for the outcomes should be shifted. And again, it should be the woman about to bear the child who makes that calculation, not Roslin.
Previously, THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
"Don't we make a pair." A BAD PAIR.
Guest-starring Richard Hatch? Dammit.
Shut up, Garner.
Seriously, I feel like this first scene with Garner is just like "HI, I DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE I'M AN ENGINEER! BECAUSE ENGINEERS ARE DIFFERENT! AND I AM ONE!"
New Assistant Tory! When did you get here? Did I miss an episode? (I actually went back and checked to make sure I didn't miss something because the previousLIES had me all confused.)
Shut up, Zarek.
Why did we even need the previousLIES with PegaSix telling Gaius to run for President if we're going to have this scene where Zarek tells Gaius to run for President?
I love Cottle. COTTLE FOR PRESIDENT. AMIRITE.
Yes, they'd better start having babies. WANTED babies, and preferably AFTER THEY GET SETTLED SOMEWHERE ELSE. A fleet on the run is not the best place to raise a child. Do they have a day care? A nursery? School? ANYTHING that makes it possible for large numbers of children to be raised in the fleet? I just don't get how this is supposed to work. I would think that pregnancy becomes even more dangerous than it already is when doctors and medical supplies are scarce, so basically what you're doing here is condemning pregnant people to potentially severe health problems and/or death.
"Eve… distress." Has anyone here read The Mysterious Disappearance of Leon (I Mean Noel)? The entire plot revolves around someone trying to decipher a garbled message like that. (It takes the whole book.)
Shut up, Garner.
Stop fighting kids 🙁 Is it me or is Lee's anger at Starbuck kind of out of nowhere? He doesn't seem to know she shot him, so it isn't that. It just doesn't feel authentic to me. Same as the Lee/Dualla relationship. A lot of plot developments are doing that to me this season.
Shut up, Garner.
I hate the convention that pregnant women are always clutching their stomachs.
Laura, you weren't so keen on people not interfering with the birth of a child when it was Sharon's child a few episodes ago. Fuck this plot development.
See Garner? None of this would have happened if you would just have SHUT UP.
I'm kinda sad now because Garner is going to die to save the ship. But he sucked as a commander. This whole situation sucks. 🙁
Finally someone gets command of Pegasus who probably isn't going to die in the next episode because he's a main character! Unless Commander of the Pegasus is a cursed position like Defense Against the Dark Arts Teacher.
"You have your pound of flesh." I like Tory's obvious look of approval as Roslin gets fierce. I approve also. But Tory isn't Billy and ROSLIN JUST OUTLAWED ABORTION WHAT THE FRAK.
"You have a brain?" I love those kids. I want them to get along forever and never ever fight again. 🙁
There's that "Cylon" used as a plural again. Also, THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEEEEEEDOMS.
Gaius, you still entertainingly suck.
Everyone else has already articulated the problems with the banning-abortion plot better than I could, so I'll just say: I call shenanigans. This seems like forced "plot" development for the sake of getting Baltar to announce his run for President, and they could have used a different issue if that's all they wanted.
Doc Cottle is amazing. He does his thing and just doesn't give a shit.
The abortion issue in this episode was so rough for me. I loved how grey an area it was. I mean, I oppose Roslin's decision, but it's very clear why it's made and Mary McDonnell does such a fantastic job of showing how broken up Roslin is about making it. GOD BSG WHY ARE YOU SO GOOD
I don't know. I don't think Adama made such a good decision giving Lee the command of the Pegasus simply because he seems to be undermining the Beast's ability to run on its own crew. I mean, first Starbuck and now Apollo, it's like they just want the original crew of the ship to sit back and take it because they'll never be as awesome as the Galactica crew. Of course, we know it's an absolute law of nature that no other crew can be as badass as the Bucket's crew, but it still bothers me somehow. Just my tiny two cents.