In the fourth episode of the sixth series of Doctor Who, the TARDIS is called outside of the universe — for real!!! — by a mysterious message that seems absolutely impossible. The Doctor, Rory, and Amy land on a planet that finally gives a view of the TARDIS we’ve never had the chance to see. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
It’s Sunday night, just past 11:00pm, and I’m exhausted. I waited until around 1:30am early this morning for iTunes to post the episode, and since then, I’ve watched “The Doctor’s Wife†three times. I’m entranced by what Neil Gaiman has handed the Doctor Who world, a story that has just…well, blown me away. I recall a statement he had made during his WonderCon appearance, about how he was surprised at the idea that no one had ever written a Doctor Who episode specifically about this. What this was, was a mystery, of course, but having now seen this episode thrice in one 24-hour period, I am both amazed that no one had ever attempted this before, and totally thrilled that Neil Gaiman was the one to get a chance to do so.
And I’ve just sat with my word processor open and not a single word typed for twenty minutes. I honestly don’t know what to say about this episode, at least not in any coherent manner.
I’ll start with this: Ever since I properly finished the series for Mark Watches, I’ve been utilizing Netflix Instant (and the occasional DVD) to pick random serials from the classic series to watch without having to think analytical about them. It’s been a lot of fun to just sit and enjoy the stories as they are, especially since I’m so used to having to mentally note things I’ll want to write about. I’ve gotten to watch “The Armageddon Factor†with Tom Baker (SO FUCKING GOOD) and “The Awakening†with Peter Davison (ALSO QUITE GOOD). Point being, I managed to spend a weekend (splitting it into two five-part sessions) watching “The War Games,†Patrick Troughton’s final appearance. (KIND OF DEPRESSING AND FUCKED UP.) So, given this, when there was a knock on the TARDIS and a fucking hypercube flew into the room, I knew that SHIT WAS GOING TO BE UNBEARABLY REAL. A hypercube? But that’s how Time Lords communicate! I thought. Wait. WAIT.
WAS THIS GOING TO BE AN EPISODE ABOUT TIME LORDS. OH MY GOD WHAT.
Funny thing, that thought. It was an episode about Time Lords and the TARDIS and it was not anything a single one of us expected. And while there are so many continuity and series mythology reveals that make this episode truly magical, I also don’t want that to distract me from how beautifully written “The Doctor’s Wife†truly ends up being. Yes, this episode is mind-melting and rather terrifying at times, but the emotional core of it all involves a relationship that’s existed since that first view of the TARDIS in the junkyard on Earth. (The use of a junkyard to explore the nature of the TARDIS is not at all lost on me.)
But let’s start with that hypercube, from a Time Lord named The Corsair. (Is that how all Time Lords are named? The _______? Just curious.) It does seem like an impossibility, but I can’t deny that despite knowing that Gaiman would find away around the fact that there are no Time Lords left, my face essentially mirrored that of the Doctor’s when he realized that The Corsair had sent him a message. Mail from a Time Lord!!!! And then, as if the heavens opened up and looked down upon Doctor Who and said, “Nay, let us rejoice at this glorious show,†The Doctor most casually mentions that The Corsair had regenerated as a woman a few times.
It is not an actual woman Time Lord on screen, but I literally YIPPED with excitement to the answer of a question so many of us have asked: Are Time Lords always dudes? NO. Oh god, is there now a possibility that there could be a woman as a Time Lord? COULD YOU IMAGINE ALL THE SHITTY BACKLASH FROM THE FANDOM. oh god just the very concept sends me into a tizzy of excitement and i have to move on or I will wet myself with joy.
Of course, it’s too much for the Doctor to ignore (would you????), and so they travel outside of the Universe. (Yes, that gets a capital letter.) I was absolutely ecstatic that we were already getting a non-Earth episode in the sixth season because I feel like we sometimes spend a bit too much time on our planet. You can travel through all of space and time! GO SOMEWHERE ELSE, DOCTOR. And what a place he travels to this time! Again, as I said earlier, I love the parallel to “An Unearthly Child,†and there’s such a beautiful reference to the birth of this series. It’s especially fitting that a story about the TARDIS is set in a planet that is entirely a junkyard.
This episode never quite seems to be that serious for the first fifteen minutes or so, and this is perfectly fine. A lot of “The Doctor’s Wife†relies on the back-and-forth banter between the characters facing what is a totally absurd situation. Here, on a planet that exists outside of the Universe, the Doctor can hear the voices of Time Lords somewhere nearby. But upon landing on this junk of a planet, they meet three very bizarre people and a slightly-creepy Ood. And this is after another impossible thing happens: The matrix of the TARDIS has completely disappeared. (How many times does the Doctor say something is impossible in this episode? God, I love it.)
The weirdness of this all is what puts the main characters (and us, as the viewers of this escapade) entirely on edge. I wasn’t quite sure if I was going to like “The Doctor’s Wife†right at the beginning. I didn’t understand how or why something on this planet had “stolen†the TARDIS and why the matrix appeared to enter Idris in the cold open. Was Idris the “villain†of the episode?
But after meeting her (SHE BITES THE DOCTOR GOOD GOD), Auntie, Uncle, and Nephew (the Ood), I was even more confused. These people seemed to just be others that had gotten stranded on the planet, and I stopped thinking they were sinister at all. And Idris had passed out and been taken away, so I literally had no clue what the hell was going on. I’d seen that tiny bit about Auntie and Uncle introducing the concept of the House while at Wondercon, so I knew beforehand that they had landed on a planet that was some sort of entity. But now the question remained: How were there other Time Lords on this planet? I liked that the Doctor entertained the idea that he had killed all of the Time Lords in our Universe, meaning that it was technically possible that there were Time Lords in this place.
I do have a bit of a problem with the way that the Doctor went about investigating this place further. He sends Amy and Rory on a fool’s errand to find his sonic screwdriver onboard the TARDIS. Rory was more than welcome to get off this planet, as the place gave him the willies, but Amy exhibited a more necessary reaction: Dude, Doctor, you’re kind of a dick. I understand that this is a huge moment for him, that he probably wanted to deal with this on his own, but are you really at a point with your companions that you have to lie to them in order to get them to let you do your own thing? Hell, because of this, Rory and Amy have to face being kidnapped and mentally tortured by the House inside of the TARDIS and HOLY SHIT IT IS SO AWFUL. So what gives, Doctor? Be upfront next time!
I suppose that it creates the necessary dichotomy for the story to do what it does, which is to separate Amy and Rory from Idris and the Doctor, because at heart, this story is about Idris and the Doctor. As the Doctor discovers the cabinet full of hypercubes, containing distress signals from his fellow Time Lords, Auntie and Uncle arrive to give him the horrifying run down: The House repairs things. It’s revealed that even the two of them are repaired.
FROM THE REMAINS OF OTHER TIME LORDS.
Absolutely one of the most disturbing and fucked up things this show has ever done. (Auntie has The Corsair’s arm!!!! WHAT THE FUCK!!!) The Doctor has been tricked, just as so many other Time Lords have been, because the House realized that Time Lords possessed what he needed in order to “repair†those that ended up on that sphere of collected matter.
Oh god, just look at Matt Smith’s face during that realization. I’ve read that there is a contingent of long-time Doctor Who fans who hate Matt Smith and think he’s too “hip†or “silly†to be the Doctor, and I implore all of them to watch this episode very, very closely. Matt Smith is the Doctor, possibly the best of them all, and there are so many moments (like this very one) that show us this man is nearly 1,000 years old and the heartbreak that has ruled his existence is hidden just behind that goofy, curious facade. You see it on his face when he finds the hypercubes: The Time Lords are all dead, and he is responsible for it, and this small little detour to entertain the hope that there is at least one still alive has just been crushed, utterly and completely.
Bless you, Matt Smith. You’re quickly becoming my favorite Doctor.
Simultaneous to this, as the Doctor is realizing just how messed up this all is, Rory and Amy find out just what the House was planning all along: to escape. A green glow shimmers outside the TARDIS and then the House announces to the two of them that it has taken over the time-traveling machine in the hopes of entering the energy-rich universe just beyond his ball of matter outside the universe. When the House demands that he be given a reason not to kill them, good ol’ Rory understands the situation quite dearly: the House wants adventure. Isn’t that what the TARDIS is for? And so he gives the House an idea: if the House kills them quickly, wouldn’t that be less entertaining for it? Unfortunately, it’s such a good idea that the House obliges and aims at doing whatever he can to kill Amy and Rory. (Many people in this fandom have pointed out that Rory has “died†in nearly every single episode he’s appeared in and I now can’t ignore how ridiculous it’s getting. Is this a conscious running joke with the writers or just an unfortunate implication of what’s happened with all of these stories?)
Gaiman doesn’t spend a lot of time on this part of the story, but I’m ok with that, since what happens with the Doctor is so huge to the series at a whole. But I do want to briefly comment on how creepy the concept is, and how this subplot allows us to FINALLY see more of this majestic TARDIS in the new series. While some of the corridors seem fairly plain, I didn’t really care. We finally get the chance to see Eleven’s TARDIS beyond the control room, and it’s these shots that Gaiman uses to create a claustrophobic sense of reality, where time bends in impossible ways and the House goes after what both Amy and Rory would die over: losing each other.
I’ve praised Matt Smith today, and now I must praise Arthur Darvill, who seriously knocked it out of the park for his portrayal of Old Rory, one of the creepiest and unsettling things I’ve seen during Moffat’s run. That intensity, drawing on the fact that Rory has already been The Boy Who Waits, plays off both of Amy’s and Rory’s collective horror. And even though we know it’s a trick and it’s not at all real, I can’t imagine a more gruesome and grim site than Rory’s dessicated body lying in the corridor of the TARDIS, having long died after Amy abandoned him.
Neil Gaiman, what is your brain.
Oh, that’s right, your brain is fucking brilliant. Because all I’ve wanted to talk about this entire time is the fact that he finally wrote a script where THE TARDIS IS AN ACTUAL FUCKING PERSON. We’ve been hearing for years that the TARDIS is alive, that it basically has its own mind and persona, that it is a living ball of energy that sometimes makes choices for the Doctor and always takes him where he needs to be. When the Doctor hears Idris tell him that she is the soul of the TARDIS, Matt Smith puts on one of those looks, the ones that make me fall in love with him even more than I already have. This is his TARDIS, right before him, and able to speak to him.
To round out my heaping of praise on the acting in “The Doctor’s Wife,†Suzanne Jones is rather perfect as the soul of the TARDIS, stumbling over proper tense, speaking in that rapid-fire wit we expect from the Doctor, and exhibiting the fact that the TARDIS loves the Doctor back just as much as he loves her.
I think that is ultimately why this episode is so goddamn fantastic: After traveling together for over forty years’ time on television, somehow, we’ve never seen this: What would happen if the TARDIS and The Doctor could meet? Well, we get many, many answers to that: They’d flirt. A LOT. And then they’d resort to bickering. And then they’d make up with more sweet talk about how much they love one another. And then the TARDIS would talk to the Doctor in a non-linear manner about many things that will happen in the near- and far-future, and would actually be one of the few things to truly confuse the Doctor.
I commented during the liveblog that we were witnessing perhaps the greatest OTP in the history of fiction, and I’d glady put Broyles/LSD from Fringe in second place to this, because it is just so touching to me. There is just something so poetic about the very idea of the Doctor and the physical manifestation of the TARDIS building another TARDIS in a veritable graveyard of TARDISes. It’s a statement about how this ball of matter is a morose and terrible place that has caused so many Time Lords to lose their lives, and yet these two people still refuse to give up hope.
I know that I’m 2,500 words into this review and I am going to skip a few smaller details that blew my mind (NINE AND TEN’S TARDIS CONSOLE HOLY FUCKING SHIT), but there is a scene in “The Doctor’s Wife†that is, without a doubt in my mind, the best scene that Doctor Who has ever given its audience, one that I now feel we’ve all been waiting to see. After materializing inside the copy of an old control room, which is then deleted by the House, which then deposits them in the main console room, which is then taken back by the matrix as Idris’s body dies (and not before she whispers the weirdest thing to Rory) (also I cannot ignore the brilliance that the TARDIS thinks Rory is the pretty one), the TARDIS has one final conversation with the Doctor. And I’m just going to quote the whole thing because anything I say will ruin it:
Idris: Doctor, are you there? It’s so very dark in here.
The Doctor: I’m here.
Idris: I’ve been looking for a word. A big, complicated word, but so sad. I found it now.
The Doctor: What word?
Idris: “Alive.â€Â I’m alive.
The Doctor: Alive isn’t sad.
Idris: It’s sad when it’s over. I’ll always be here, but this is when we talked. And even that has come to an end. There’s something I didn’t get to say to you.
The Doctor: “Goodbye.â€
Idris: No, I just wanted to say…Hello, Doctor. It’s so very, very nice to meet you.
And no lie, Watchers, I was in a glass case of emotion during this whole exchange:
Doctor Who is about a mad man and a blue box that is bigger on the inside, and this is the first time we’ve seen that blue box as a living thing. I will never forget this. It’s one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever witnessed on this show, and I have to gush and thank Neil Gaiman for giving us all this story. You’ve reminded us all that these characters are so alive, and that the Doctor and his big blue box will forever be alive in all of us.
Gosh darn, I must watch this again.
THOUGHTS
- SO MANY GOOD QUOTES IN THIS EPISODE.
- “Are all people like this?†“Like what?†“So much bigger on the inside!â€
- “How can we be outside the universe? The universe is everything.†“Imagine a great big soap bubble with one of those tiny little bubbles on the outside.†“Okay.†“Well, it’s nothing like that.â€
- “Biting’s excellent. It’s like kissing, only there’s a winner.â€
- “He’ll be fine. He’s a Time Lord.†“It’s just what they’re called. Doesn’t mean he actually knows what he’s doing.â€
- THE DOCTOR CALLS THE TARDIS SEXY WHEN HE’S ALONE. A;KLSDFJA;D FLKASDJFADS;LKFJA;FJ
- Oh god, the amazing conversation between Idris and the Doctor about the instructions on the door. amazing AMAZING.
- “You ever wonder why I chose you all those years ago?†“I chose you. You were unlocked.†“Of course I was. I wanted to see the universe so I stole a Time Lord and I ran away. And you were the only one mad enough.â€
- “She’s a woman and she’s a TARDIS.†“Did you wish really hard?†AMY POND FOR THE VICTORY.
- “The House deleted all the bedrooms. I should probably make you two a bedroom. You’d like that, won’t you?†“Okay, um, Doctor, this time could we lose the bunk bed?†“No, bunk beds are cool. A bed with a ladder! You can’t beat that.†THE DOCTOR FOR THE VICTORY.
Let’s not beat around the bush here, that was pure fanfic. However, and this is key, it’s REALLY well written and produced fanfic with exceptional performances and a script that allows the casual, or “normal” if you prefer, viewer to follow along and enjoy the ride while also further developing the mythos of the show in ways that actually enhance what’s gone before rather than ret-coning. And I have zero idea how to comment on it…. Tell you what let’s try a top ten:
10) The supporting cast were great, Uncle especially. “Actually I feel fine” *thud* had me snickering a lot.
9) Bunk Beds. *snerk*. And love that Rory knows they’ve got a better chance if he gets Amy to ask.
8) Production values were through the roof, no wonder they had to delay this from last year!
7) TARDIS in flight! Yay! And loved the light on top changing to green, nice touch.
6) “You were thinking you could build a working TARDIS console out of broken remnants of a hundred different models and you don’t care that it’s impossible” Cue music of awesome! “It’s not impossible as long as we’re alive. Rory and Amy need me so yeah, we’re going to build a TARDIS”. Oh Eleven, never change!
5) “You want to be forgiven” “Don’t we all” “What do you need from me”… oh lord. In three words Matt Smith (plus Gaiman and Moffat) deals with the Doctor’s pain better than years of overblown angsty Ten storylines managed to do. And Amy’s instant acceptance and willingness to help against her better judgement is the perfect response.
4) Rory might not get a vast amount to do here but he’s ALWAYS there between others and harm. Like that he’s shown doing the nurse thing for Idris but he gets a real Crowning Moment of Awesome here that may be missed. Why did House mess with Amy’s mind to the point of causing her to breakdown but Rory seems fine? Because so long as Rory can focus on Amy there’s pretty much NOTHING that’s going to stop him. 2,000 years came and went without sleeping or company with only the most remote hope of ever seeing her alive again and he was fine, after that anything House can do to him must be like spitting into the ocean.
3) Amy, oh Amy… she didn’t have that much to do in the episode (though her “Did you wish REALLY hard” line had me in stitches) but her main scene with abandoned head!Rory was both terrifying and heartbreaking (with an extra dose of heartwarming for “Delight” being her wedding day, awwwwwww). Keeping in mind that the corridor / aging Rory stuff was pulled our of her own head by House and suddenly I’m quite glad we never got to see her dream in Amy’s Choice, I suspect it would have been a tad dark. That girl has a lot of issues buried beneath that mask of confidence, thank god she’s got Rory to help her through them. Also love that the bad stuff this year is being used to develop characters as well as just scare, right way to do it and adds layer upon layer for repeat viewings. Plus there’s something wonderful and natural about her relationship with the Doctor, really does come across as Best Friends and… not equals exactly but maybe peers is the word I’m looking for. And she has NO hesitation in stepping between those she cares about and danger does she? Oh, and just for the record, “Rory, hold my hand” when she’s staring death in the face gets me every time I watch this, especially in light of what happens shortly afterwards in the corridors.
2) Idris / TARDIS. The idea of a physical representation of the TARDIS isn’t new but this was superbly done. Beautiful acting, spot on script and the interaction between her and the Doctor was fantastic. The love of his life, together for 700+ years, each utterly reliant on the other and having saved each other countless times. Yeah, she’s SO his wife. The fact that together they’re the biggest badasses in the known universe is a side effect 😉
1) Matt Smith was beyond incredible here and hit EVERYTHING perfectly. His Doctor is flat out terrifying when provoked, in fact he’s given off Seven vibes this year on more than one occasion which isn’t a good sign for the universe, yet remains the most sympathetic version I think I’ve ever seen. Just DON’T kidnap or threaten those he cares about, the whole pacifist thing tends to get thrown out the window and bad things WILL happen to you. His final conversation with Idris is gut-wrenching, his absolute joy as she takes him on the next adventure a delight… perfection and, surely, destined to go down as one of the (if not THE) best Doctor’s.
In conclusion: really liked it, very very fun ride and a really strong episode. Doesn’t beat out the opening two parter but this is, so far, an incredibly strong series with only Curse letting the side down (and even that was just good rather than great). If the rest of the series lives up to this we’re in for a treat.
Okay, sorry to ask this but… why the downrank? Don't mind but I'd like to know why….
Let’s not beat around the bush here, that was pure fanfic. However, and this is key, it’s REALLY well written and produced fanfic with exceptional performances.
I think…this is why I didn't LOVE this episode as much as I wanted to. Neil Gaiman is my FAVORITE author and I think he is absolutely brilliant; When the Doctor mentions that not knowing what to do is a new feeling and then promptly slaps himself, I could not stop laughing, and with Amy's "did you wish really hard" line, it proved that Neil Gaiman and dialogue are an utterly perfect match.
That being said, I wanted it to be more EPIC and think perhaps, Neil's fanboyish-ness got in the way.
I know, unpopular opinion! BRING ON THE DOWNVOTES. I just really love Neil Gaiman and wanted more.
ok, so I've just done some more thinking (note to self: get all your thinking done, then post):
Neil Gaiman has given us so many beautiful and fantastic scenes…but I think this episode might have been better as a Tennant-ep (NOT that I don't LOVE Matt Smith! hear me out!)
when RTD was showrunner, each season really was a series of more or less stand-alone/independent episodes. SMoffatt has developed a more serialized Doctor Who (aside from a few episode exceptions), in which all the episodes center around one over-reaching story arc, and to be honest, this episode felt out of place for me.
I think thats why it didn't seem as EPIC to me…its a bloody fantastic episode in the wrong place.
*general notes on the ep elsewhere in the thread*
I don't think the Curse of the Black Spot going to have huge arc significance either though, so maybe this season will not be predominantly serialized….it's a bit hard to tell because it's going to be so different with the break, and presumably a big mid-season cliff-hanger.
I agree, I think the Curse of the Black Spot definitely counts as one of the few exceptions to the serialized season and to be honest, I got the feeling most people were disappointed in it. I think that's probably because with the opening 2 parter, SMoffatt really set up this season to be The Series Of The Silence/Silents…and then we get not one but 2 episodes that don't deliver what the opening promised.
Perhaps other viewers get a different feel from these first 4 episodes but that's kind of what I'm getting from them.
No, I do think RTD was serialized. I don't mean stuff like the scattered keywords; I mean that thematically and emotionally his series would have throughlines, often very good ones. Episodes did relate to each other and progress in a certain order, but usually not so much on a plot level.
This episode was originally written for Ten. It got moved for very good reasons, but that fact remains.
4) Rory might not get a vast amount to do here but he’s ALWAYS there between others and harm. Like that he’s shown doing the nurse thing for Idris but he gets a real Crowning Moment of Awesome here that may be missed. Why did House mess with Amy’s mind to the point of causing her to breakdown but Rory seems fine? Because so long as Rory can focus on Amy there’s pretty much NOTHING that’s going to stop him. 2,000 years came and went without sleeping or company with only the most remote hope of ever seeing her alive again and he was fine, after that anything House can do to him must be like spitting into the ocean.
Loved this. RORYYYYYY.
With regard to #2 – I agree that it was magical, but I think that it was the Time Lord trick that helped keep 11 from slipping back into 10 angst. Meeting the TARDIS and realizing that he hasn't been and will never be truly alone (she too has a shared memory of Time Lords and Gallifrey) cushioned the blow of having his hopes raised and crushed and in the end enriched him in a very real way. As you point out, his delight at the handle moving itself was palpable, and I think that maybe it meant more (?) than finding a living Time Lord would have.
"I think that maybe it meant more (?) than finding a living Time Lord would have. "
This so much. The Doctor isn't alone. He's got the TARDIS, and she has him, and they can do anything.
I think the only reason it feels like fanfiction is because: fanfiction is how the fans provide themselves and each other with things from the show we've always wanted to see. And this episode shows us SO MANY things from the series as a whole that we've been waiting to see.
So that was wonderful. Truly, I came out of it feeling so happy and content. I truly think this episode will be in my top 5 episodes of Doctor Who. Just, so much good and so little bad.
So much of this episode was heartbreaking – the Doctor's glee at getting mail and his enthusiasm for seeing his Time Lord friend (WHO BY THE WAY WAS SOMETIMES MALE AND SOMETIMES FEMALE WHICH MAKES ME HAPPY AND SMILEY AND I DON'T CARE WHAT THE CHANCES ARE OF THE SHOW DECIDING TO GIVE US A FEMALE DOCTOR I JUST LOVE THE IDEA OF ONE AND THE IDEA THAT TIME LORD GENDER IDENTITY CAN INDEED BE JUST AS FLUID AS I HOPED), dashed by the realization that no, he's still the only one left.
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/33aumiw.gif">(source)
Because the little boxes made him angry – because he had such hope, which seems rare for him, but instead he was struck with the realization that House had not just given him hope and taken it away, but furthermore contributed to the death of some Time Lords. Even if he didn't like all or even most of them, they were still his people and he wanted to see them again and he wanted them to forgive him. My heart, it breaks, and Matt Smith is wonderful and deserves all the awards.
<img src="http://i52.tinypic.com/2pq84cm.jpg">(source)
TARDIS I LOVE YOU AND YOU LOVE THE DOCTOR AND HE LOVES YOU AND EVERYTHING IS BEAUTIFUL. "Biting's excellent – it's like kissing, only there's a winner." And she answers people's questions in advance, and her Doctor's chin is hilarious, and humans are bigger on the inside, and Rory's the pretty one and Amy's the orangey one, and she just wants her thief back.
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/9gh5c8.gif">(source)
Because she was the most beautiful thing he'd ever known, and he stole a TARDIS while she stole a Time Lord, because they both just wanted to run away and explore the universe and be mad together. Because she takes him where he needs to go. Because without the TARDIS, the Doctor is just a madman in a box, without a box. Because basically, they're meant for each other and my heart – this is a love story, and honestly, I think it's my favorite of them all on this show. And she. is. alive, and finally gets to say hello to her Doctor (why yes I did start crying then).
<img src="http://i54.tinypic.com/256e0oz.gif">(source)
And I think I'm correct in interpreting the Doctor's room as the entire main console room? Since that question then cuts to him at the console, talking to the TARDIS. Which was a lovely and beautiful scene.
<img src="http://i54.tinypic.com/ogvpyq.jpg">(source)
And Suranne Jones was simply fantastic. Lovely and engaging and believable and perfect – I admit, I was hesitant before the episode given the title, so seeing a woman I wasn't familiar with in those promo pics made me a bit nervous. Completely unneccessary; she was wonderful and an amazing addition.
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/o5nlae.gif">(source)
(continued)
ALSDKFJ;ASDJKFAS; THIS EPISODE! I only have a short amount of time to comment SO all I’m going to say is THIS EPISODE WAS AMAZING! It was like a mixture of Neverwhere (all the junk reminded me of it for some reason…) and I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream. I loved it so much I didn’t even notice Rory died YET AGAIN. I heard a lot of people saying this would be the perfect introductory episode for a new Who fan- I still think Blink might be a better introductory episode, but this one I think is perfect to introduce new Who fans to the Time Lord backstory and terminology. So the second episode after they’re hooked thanks to Blink?
Oh yea, AND THEIR "GOODBYE" ASDKJF;AKLJFA;SJDF ALL THE TEARS OH MY GOD I CAN'T EVEN EXPLAIN HOW UPSET I WAS T_T FOREVER
I was thinking "Neverwhere" the whole time too!
I wondered why I kept thinking "This is a very Gaiman setting…" NEVERWHERE.
Guh, this episode was just amazing! I loved it!
I loved that last week we all basically predicted who the “Doctor’s wife” would be with all of our Doctor/Tardis Otp gifs and we didn’t even realize it.
Also, does anyone know where the name Idris come from? Is it odd it’s basically spelled from the letters of “Tardis”? (Okay….so there’s an extra ‘I’…..so it doesn’t quite work….maybe Im just looking too much into it)
And seriously…..must Rory die EVERYTIME?
Anyways, gif time!
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I also like this little bit from the past:
Sarah Jane: Does he still stroke bits of the TARDIS?
Rose: Yeah! Yeah! He does! I’m like, “do you two wanna be alone?”.
<img src="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll8bvdYORS1qd5ljyo1_500.gif" />
Where are those gifs from? I want to reblog the one with "The Pretty One" on tumblr, which is where I assume they originated?
Yeah, they came from tumblr. Mostly these: http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/ http://heckyadoctorwho.tumblr.com/ http://fuckyeahdwgifs.tumblr.com/
here's a like to the "Pretty One" gif http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/5500718384/beaut…
thanks!
Ooo, ooo, I can answer the Idris question! Pick me! *waves hand*
Ahem. Straight from behindthename.com: Idris, Means "ardent lord" from Welsh udd "lord, prince" combined with ris "ardent, enthusiastic, impulsive".
In other words, Neil Gaiman is a genius (was there any doubt) and I just absolutely love it. And yeah, the fact it is really close to Tardis is probably a factor too.
OHHH OKAY.
THAT IS TOTALLY COOL.
I love Neil Gaiman. Really. I do.
Also, in Hindi it's a name meaning "fiery" (connected to the "impulsive" meaning, I'm guessing?) and is also the name of an immortal Muslim prophet in the Qur'an (speculated to be another name for the Judeo-Christian Enoch).
I thought (probably due to reading The Grey King too much) that Idris was the Welsh name for King Arthur, but looking it up it seems that the two names aren't really connected to each other at all.
So while there's no link between TARDIS and Arthur, perhaps there is a link between the TARDIS and Cader Idris, the mountain that incites either insanity or creativity in anyone who spends the night on top of it.
I'm having such a surreal moment. I made the "Time and Relative Dimension is Sexy" one and it's popping up everywhere. XD
Excuse me while I bask in my 15 seconds of Internet fame.
In that case – all the upvotes for you, my friend! 🙂
If only I had the skillz to make animated .gifs. Then it would have been really awesome.
awesome!
Someone should come up with a nice Anagram for "Idris" as well.
The bit with Rose and Sarah Jane was EXACTLY what I was thinking of!
They totally showed that scene from the last gif in the Confidential, along with other great scenes that mention the TARDIS and they did something I found really great, which was project old episodes onto the Tardis doors and walls, SO appropriate!
I love all of these gifs, so so much.
Although, I think the Many Deaths of Rory Williams Pond left out his supposed burning to death in the Pandorica Opens.
That Crimson-Eleven-Delight gif is gorgeous. I can't stop staring at it
God, this was all making me squee and then we got to the end and I just got sad all over again that Sarah Jane is dead. 🙁
I LOVED this episode. There was absolutely nothing I didn’t like.
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The story was wonderful (and so delightfully Gaiman-esque and maybe a little Dianna Wynne-Jonesy?). Being a fan of the show was obvious, the references to Old!Who were brilliantly peppered throughout the episode (I’ve actually seen an episode with the hypercube – makes me feel like proper Who fan!). The Nine/Ten TARDIS console brought a tear in my eyes.
The use of the Time Lord distress calls to lure him in and the Doctor so easily (and recklessly!) responding was very in-character and made me feel gutted for him when he found out there were no more Time Lords. Gaiman’s dialogue was on point during these scenes, especially the Amy/Doctor ones. She understands him really well now, well enough to know and care when he’s emotional and Gaiman was so good at vaguely touching the subject. I even detected a little familiar Ten!angst (a little subtler from Matt Smith, though):
“You want to be forgiven.”
“Don’t we all?”
*CONTINUED*
The House (MICHAEL SHEEN!) as the villain was another very Gaiman thing to do – which, again, could not make me happier. A whole asteroid luring people in, ‘repairing them’, using them to feed itself and calling himself something as simple as The House. Competing with Moffat there on the nightmare inducing stuff! And he’s a sadistic, torture-loving monster to boot!
The Amy/Rory scenes in stolen TARDIS were phenomenal; I appreciated seeing just the teensiest bit more of the interior, I was scared out of my wits when Rory appeared having aged 2000 years (“2000 years I waited for you. You did it to me again!”) and then DIED. To be honest, the dying part didn’t scare me, my face was pretty much spelling out ARE. YOU.KIDDING.ME.RIGHT.NOW. MOFFAT, I KNOW THIS HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOU. STOP THIS. STOP THIS NOW. But, otherwise, those scenes were perfection. It says something about how horrible the House is; he seemed to be relishing throwing both Amy and Rory against their greatest fears. Rory, waiting for Amy and maybe never seeing her again. And Amy, being responsible for Rory’s death yet again.
As for the unquestionably greatest part of the episode: Idris/TARDIS and the Doctor. It completely flew over my head that she was the TARDIS before she finally revealed herself to the Doctor because I missed the beginning of the episode. The first few minutes she was just a very strange woman (who was basically Helena Bonham Carter in real life) that occasionally spouted utter gibberish. Then, when she made the TARDIS noise – which was a really inventive scene, I have to say – my eyes basically popped out of my skull. Suranne Jones was amazing. It took me a second viewing to fully appreciate how she really caught the spirit of what the TARDIS was; not just a clever time-machine but an actual living, almost-breathing being that acted more as the companion to the Doctor than anyone else ever could. I really believed that Idris had known the Doctor forever, understood him more than he understood himself and had travelled with him from the beginning to the end of time. To me it seemed she knew what he was going to say not ONLY because she’s a time machine but because she knows HIM right to the core.
“My Thief! Goodbye! No, the other one!”
I adore the fact that she repeatedly called him her thief. Though my favourite term of endearment she used was undoubtedly this:
“Oh my beautiful idiot. You have what you’ve always had. You’ve got me.”
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*CONTINUED*
And, I know, we’ve all probably shipped TARDIS/Doctor as a joke at some point but this is what really made this a sad love story. “I wanted to see the Universe so I stole a Time Lord and ran away. And you were the only one mad enough.” She stole him and he stole her and they’ve been running away together ever since. And as Amy said: “It's always you and her isn't it? Long after the rest of us have gone. A boy and his box off to see the universe.” How could anyone compete with that? She’s a piece of his home and now she’s a piece of him and they’ve had every adventure in the world together. “My TARDIS.” “MY Doctor.” Which reminded me of Rose in ‘The Parting of the Ways’: “I want you safe, My Doctor.” I can’t help but think that maybe some version of Idris was speaking with Rose then, both of them keeping their Doctor safe.
Her death was unbelievably sad. I was going to say I’m amazed Gaiman got me so attached to a character that was introduced in only this episode but that’s not really true, is it? We’ve all known Idris longer than that. But the fact that this was – and is and will be 😉 – the last time she will ever speak to the Doctor was gut-wrenching.
“I'll always be here. But this is when we talked. And now even that has come to an end…There's something I didn't get to say to you.”
“Goodbye.”
“No. I just wanted to say, Hello. Hello Doctor. It's so very very nice to meet you.”
“Please. I don't want you to.”
“I love you.”
Matt Smith (all around brilliant in this episode) broke my heart when he cried.
Another way Gaiman is so good at writing his characters: making Rory rush to Idris’s side as she fell and then discussing with the Doctor how useless he felt when he’s a nurse and couldn’t help her was wonderful.
A little more Gaiman-fangirling, please bear with me:
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“Crimson, eleven, delight, the smell of dust after rain.”
PERHAPS THE MOST INGENIUS THING EVER ON DW. I CAN’T EXPLAIN HOW MUCH I LOVE IT I. I JUST DO. SO FUCKING GAIMAIN. It fits the story, it fits the TARDIS, and it fits Amy figuring out how it works. It’s just perfect. Blow my mind more, Neil Gaiman. I dare you. And I learnt my new favourite word; petrichor. Petrichor. Petrichor. I’ll be saying this all day. You know my mind, Gaiman, I swear. How did you know I love the smell of rain and I did not know a word to describe it existed?
The humour. It could not be Neil Gaiman without the humour.
“I really don’t know what to do. [Smiles.] That’s a new feeling. [Slaps self.]”
“…And what do I call you?”
“I think you call me…sexy.”
“Only when we’re alone!”
“We are alone.”
“Oh. Come on then…sexy.”
“See? You do call me that! Is that my name?”
“You bet it’s your name!”
“She’s a WOMAN and she’s the TARDIS!”
“Did you wish really hard?”
All in all, I am in love with this episode. The best of season six – until now obviously, though I sincerely doubt anything else can top that. Possibly right up there with ‘Vincent and the Doctor’ – and that’s high praise indeed, coming from me.
(ALL OF THE ABOVE.)
I had a fantasy for quite some time of DWJ writing a Who episode. But now it can never be. ;_;
She would have been PERFECT 🙁
I KNOW, RIGHT? 🙁 🙁 🙁
SATURDAY NIGHT WAS A FLAWLESS AND FABULOUS EVENING FOR ME. I think this is my favorite episode of the Moffat Era and then it was followed by Eurovision. It was like God came down from heaven and thought "what would make Karen's life amazing?" and then did just that. ALSO, Ben and Jerry's was half price at Tesco.
Anyway, on to this amazing episode. So, best episode of series 6 so far, y/y? Which I realize isn't saying much, but I do think it'll withstand the rest of the series and remain one of the best. There was a lot for me to like in this episode. I thought the style of the bubble universe was really interesting- very Tim Burton-esque with a bit of steam punk thrown it, it felt like to me. The patchwork people were really neat. Even the timey wimey stuff didn't bother me because it was just playing around with the way the human Tardis would relate to time and it wasn't something that the solution to the plot hung on.
I think one of the best things about this episode was that we finally got to see some emotion from the Doctor. I loved that for a moment the Doctor got be believe that there might be other Time Lords (he was so excited to get the message! he needed to be forgiven!), only to discover that what he was hearing were distress calls from Time Lords who were later killed by House. And then he got to be sad when the human!Tardis died! I think Eleven displayed more emotion in this one episode than he has in all of his previous ones combined.
In general the human!Tardis was a lot of fun. It was just really cool seeing her interact with the Doctor. I LOVED the idea of the Tardis as the Doctor's wife. But most especially I loved the idea that the Doctor didn't just steal the Tardis, but she stole him because she wanted to see the universe.
The stuff with Amy and Rory on the Tardis was pretty cool- it was deliciously trippy and it was fun seeing parts of the Tardis other than the console room. When House was messing with Amy by making her think that Rory was head, I started to laugh. Rory dieing has pretty much become a joke at this point. I loved that Rory actually did something this episode. He was the one who came up with the reason why House shouldn't just kill them now. And how funny was it that the Tardis thought that Rory was the "pretty one"? Hee!I did also really enjoy the fact that the psychic passcode entailed picturing the things.
Also, OLD TARDIS!!!! 😀 😀 😀 😀 YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HAPPY THAT MADE ME. But it also really made me miss the Doctors and companions of the RTD era. RORY AND AMY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN THERE? YOU ARE NOT NINE OR TEN AND ROSE OR DONNA OR MARTHA!
Amy: "Did you wish really hard?"
Doctor: "Shut up, not like that" (Matt Smith's delivery of that line was amazing)
"Another Ood I failed to save" really shouldn't have made me lol. but it did. I think it was Matt's blase reading of that line.
Interesting thing that the human!Tardis said as she was dieing. "The only water in the forest is the river." Or River (Song), probably. lol. I bet this is going to show up in the mid-season finale or the actual series finale.
But I think my favorite part was the bit at the end where Amy and Rory got to redesign their bedroom because LOL OH MY GOD. THE DOCTOR HAD BEEN MAKING AMY AND RORY HAVE BUNK BEDS. "Bunk beds are cool. A bed with a ladder!"
THAT IS HANDS DOWN MY FAVORITE THING ABOUT THIS EPISODE. I CANNOT STOP LAUGHING ABOUT THAT. Eleven WOULD assign them to a room with bunk beds.
I really liked Eleven in this episode. Apparently I tend to like him more when he's not being written by Moffat. And that was really sweet at the end how the Tardis could him and understand him.
Thumbs up for the Ben and Jerry's! Rock on.
I had the same evening plan only in reverse order, what with not being in UK. (:
I love it that they essentially stole one another. HOW SWEET IS THAT?! Oh gods… they ran off together, didn't they! 😀
"It is not an actual woman Time Lord on screen, but I literally YIPPED with excitement to the answer of a question so many of us have asked: Are Time Lords always dudes? NO. Oh god, is there now a possibility that there could be a woman as a Time Lord? COULD YOU IMAGINE ALL THE SHITTY BACKLASH FROM THE FANDOM. oh god just the very concept sends me into a tizzy of excitement and i have to move on or I will wet myself with joy."
Umm, technically there have been female time lords before (one travelled with the Doctor for a while), it's always been the question of whether or not a time lord could change sex during regeneration that's never been answered. Personally I'm not so sure it'd be a good idea to cast a female Doctor, not that I wouldn't want to see it (Curse of Fatal Death did it beautifuly) but that it would be a HUGE risk that it'd cause the viewing masses to switch off.
I thought the fandom wanted a female timelord! Oh well 🙁
Oh female Time Lord, no problem. Female Doctor would probably cause some sort of holy war with the majority of fandom caught between both sides going 'let's see how it goes'. My concern though would be how the masses outside of fandom would react and it'd be a HUGE risk with a show that kinda relies on that mass support to justify its existence.
You know, if by some miracle, a DW show runner came to me (a girl) and said "I want you to be the Doctor." I would be really torn. Because on one hand- I'd be playing the Doctor. On the other hand, I know I would be getting fifteen times the shit storm of any other Doctor just for being a girl even if I did the most amazing acting in all of existence and had amazing writing in my episodes.
"Dude, Doctor, you’re kind of a dick. I understand that this is a huge moment for him, that he probably wanted to deal with this on his own, but are you really at a point with your companions that you have to lie to them in order to get them to let you do your own thing? "
Indeed the Doctor makes a mistake here… another one… in fact he hasn't exactly been on top of his game since the series started. I'm sure that there's NO way that'll be significant with Moffat in charge… This particular time mind I think it's sorta kinda understandable, The Doctor has never QUITE been honest with his companions regarding his people and considering the conversation that would likely happen if there WERE timelords here… yeah, privacy might be good.
Oh and one last thing Mark, listen to that end speech from Idris again. It's almost lost in the mix but there's a very quiet "I love you" as she vanishes…
Mark, have you seen "The Curse of the Fatal Death" yet? If not, you really need to watch it. It could almost be canon now, lol!
Mark TOTALLY needs to see "The Curse of the Fatal Death".
I don't know the rest, but I really want Twelve to be female.
Gaiman just said in an interview that he didn't come up with the idea/mythology that timelords are able to regenerate into another gender but that he got the idea straight from The Eleventh Hour when Eleven touches his hair and wonders if he's a girl now.
YESSSS, I have been using this in arguments and everyone tries to play it off like it doesn't mean anything. Do you have a link to that interview, BTW?
To be honest, I just read/watched like 4 or 5 interviews that I had been stockpiling leading up to the episode so that i could read them after the airing and not be spoiled so I'm not entirely sure where he says it. I thought it was in the Guardian live Q and A from earlier today…but i didn't see it there. sorry couldn't be more help.
It was the Guardian Q/A!! Here's the question/answer regarding regeneration into the opposite sex:
Question:The long-standing fan argument (and joke) about whether timelords can change gender on regeneration seems to be now definitively settled. Was there any disagreement or debate about that? Does it foreshadowing the appearance of a female timelord? Who would you ideal female timelord be? @duncangeorge @hastydave
Gaiman's Answer: The odd bit here is that for me it had been definitively settled when Doctor Eleven tried to figure out whether or not he was a girl.
But it seemed to make sense, and it made the Time Lords more interesting for me, not less, and I put it in the script, always as a throwaway.
The description of the Corsair and the Doctor's relationship with him got shorter and shorter in script after script, but that aside remained, and I'm glad it did, if only because the next time the BBC needs to cast a Doctor, the press and fans get to argue passionately about twice as many actors.
And for me, the definitive lady Doctor will always be Joanna Lumley. SHe had Dalek bumps.
link to Q/A: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradio…
EDITED because I replied from email and the result was a royal mess.
I believe it was a Television Without Pity article that listed American showrunners they thought would make a good American DW (I’m sure many would consider this blasphemous, but I would be very much interested in watching American Who if it was backed by the right people), and one of the people they mentioned was Joss Whedon, and they suggested Amy Acker as a possible candidate for a hypothetical WhedonWho. Am I only one who finds this idea extremely glorious?
Also, a non-white Doctor would be met with open arms (at least by me).
ALL THE COMPANIONS WOULD DIE and it would be the most depressing thing ever.
Yes, but they would be the most loveable companions ever and would give the fandom countless one-liners before their untimely deaths (most likely after they finally found love).
Her companions would, of course, be played by Alan Tudyk and Alyson Hannigan. The Doctor loves redheads, after all.
You missed Felicia Day!
Of course Time Lords can be female! It's only really Fanon that female time lords are called Time Ladies. In the old serial it was a title rather than a species- Time Lords had to have gone through the university and learned how to use a TARDIS etc- the Gallifreyans were the species. And most other Time Lords can choose the look of their regeneration.
I get the feeling that gender doesn;t matter overly much to Time Lords, as they can regenerate into any body they choose. But I loved having all my fanon theorys proven by the show! It was brilliant. Best episode so far Y/Y?
Indeed. It was always my understanding that the Doctor dropped out of "Time Lord Harvard" which is why he's no good at regenerating (no control) and had to steal a decommissioned TARDIS to actually travel (although clearly she had similar ideas).
LOVED the confirmation of all that, especially the line "Where's my thief?!"
True, Humanity has often been called Mankind, after all, so Time Lord being the species makes good sense.
Loved it, my favorite Eleventh Doctor episode by far. Thank you Neil Gaiman, please come back for more. And Suranne Jones was brilliant best guest star since Lindsay Duncan.
UGH THESE COMMENTS ARE ALREADY GOING TO MAKE ME TEAR UP AGAIN.
i love y'all. i really do.
Mark, Im curious, do you know about the secret messages currently hidden in the Doctor who website? They've been putting them in there after each episode.
I HAD NO IDEA
NOW I DO
AND HOLY GOD I LOVE SHIT LIKE THIS
<voice_Amy> Mutual </voice 😉
WE LOVE YOU TOO BRO.
Everybody always covers what I want to say, so here is my prevailing thought:
Please tell me it wasn't just me who was reminded of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream for the Amy and Rory storyline of this episode? It was driving me mad! (In a good way, not a bad way.)
YES! House = AM Computer! Thankfully, this episode wasnt' as creepy as I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream. Do not need to see that on screen EVER
I am glad you agree! I don't know anybody else who's been able to watch the show and knows the story, so bringing it up has just got me weird looks, haha. Was beginning to think I was making it uo!
OH GOD I TOTALLY THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME. Aged!Head!Rory was giving off some serious AM vibes.
Totally not just you ::shudder::
Omigod, how did I not think of this immediately?! Yes!! Those are the exact vibes I was getting without even completely realizing it!! I was all "…this feeling of dread is an oddly familiar one." Now I know why.
This is the perfect love story for Doctor Who because it is THE love story in Doctor Who (not that I am against the Doctor being in relationships with regular people; in fact, I rather like whatever is going on between River and the Doctor, but as Amy points out, only the TARDIS is with him forever). Looking back at the episode, I, just like you and Neil Gaiman, really can’t believe that it hadn’t been made long before now because it feels like such a natural extension of the Doctor’s story. But then again, I guess the Doctor’s affection for the TARDIS has been a lot more overt lately, so it makes sense that this story came up at this point.
<img src="http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/TropeGirl/Gifs%20and%20things/eleventhdoctortardistotallyinlove-partmermaidlivejournal.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
(the best part of Curse of the Black Spot, in my opinion)
There was a lot I adored about this episode (“Sexy” and “Pull to open” and “Bunk beds are cool!”), but my favorite thing was something that I missed entirely the first time. If you listen really carefully right as Idris’s body disappears at the end, you can hear her say “I love you”.
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(this isn't that exact point, but has "Hello" ever been more beautiful?)
P.S. “You didn't always take me where I wanted to go.” “No, but I always took you where you needed to go.” – I’ve been telling people that for ages.
P.P.S. “Uh, Amy, this is, well, she's my TARDIS. Except she's a woman. She's a woman and she's a TARDIS.” “She's the TARDIS?” “And she's a woman. She's a woman and she's a TARDIS.” I just love how excited the Doctor is that she’s a woman. He might say it’s “not like that”, but you can kind of tell…
(gifs made by partmermaid at livejournal)
"She's a woman and she's a TARDIS.” I just love how excited the Doctor is that she’s a woman."
I love the look of dawning comprehension on his face as he says it. Like he's just realising 'THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER.'
XD
your .gif of the Doc hugging the TARDIS on the medical ship reminded me: wasn't that episode re-ordered? If so, he knew she was alive when he hugged her…it still made sense because we knew he loved her anyways, but it makes even more sense after knowing it had originally been a later episode…
Yeah, I've had that thought too, actually. It would have resonated much more emotionally if Curse of the Black Spot had been aired later. Fortunately, from an in-universe timey-wimey perspective, the TARDIS lives in all space and time simultaneously, so for her it's like The Doctor's Wife stuff had already happened… kind of … so at least she appreciates it. Or I could be rambling.
This episode was beautiful and I adored every second of it and I am sure I missed all the best moments so I am definitely rewatching it.
Also, in conclusion–bunkbed love.
Minor quibbles:
(Is the whole Amy wearing plaid a thing? Is it a mystery that's gonna get resolved? Is it Moffat/the costume department trolling us? I don't understand it and I don't know if I should try to ignore it or speculate on it or what.)
Stop making the Ood evil, show.
Stop killing the Ood, show.
Wishful thinking? I want this line of "another Ood I failed to save" to be foreshadowing something where all the Ood are saved. Please? I've never felt much resolution with the Ood – they're pawns of Satan, then they're murderous rebels who still don't quite have agency, then they're what, bad omens. Not what I'm looking for.
Ahahaha, I've been noticing the plaid thing for a while – I LOVE the idea that it'll turn out to be a massive Bad Wolf thing in the series finale. "Didn't you notice, Doctor? We replaced your companion with a lumberjack Silent MONTHS ago!"
"Didn't you notice, Doctor? We replaced your companion with a lumberjack Silent MONTHS ago!"
oh dear, the cat jumped off my lap I was laughing so hard!
This is totally what's gonna happen, isn't it?
Tired of the Sonic Screwdriver's inability to do wood, Amy takes matters into her own hands.
OMG Lumberjacks are usually found in forests and the water is missing!
I never wanted to be a Silent anyway. I wanted to be…. a LUMBERJACK!!! Leaping from tree to tree as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia! The giant redwood! The larch! The fir! The mighty Scots pine! With my best girlie by my side, we'd sing, sing, SING!
XD
Oh thank god. I thought I was the only one who noticed the plaid thing with Amy. And it's always a red/pink coloured plaid shirt. Ever since the Comic Relief two parter, she's been wearing plaid and I just… IDK what or why. She needs to get some new clothes.
<img src="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5397/vlcsnap00001u.png">
Not always red.
Oh, I forgot about that one. I just remembered all the ones she's been wearing when with the Doctor. But still, that's too much plaid in one wardrobe.
What do you people have against plaid?!
Nothing really. I just live in a place where plaid is popular, especially among farmers, so if you were plaid you're assumed to be a farmer or farmer's wife or something like that.
I was mostly bugged by the fact that she has either 4 of the same plaid shirt or has been wearing the same plaid shirt. I liked her varying outfits last season, each one different from the last.
She is Scottish after all. Plaid is kinda their thing.. in their kilts.. and I know Plaid really isn't the same thing as Tartan but.. maybe?
they spent the clothing budget on scripts and makeup and effects.
It's in keeping with Hipster!Team TARDIS.
The question foremost in my mind before I watched this episode was "am I overhyping myself?" Because I'm a big, big fan of Neil Gaiman's writing, particularly Sandman, so I worried that I was getting a bit too excited.
I needn't have worried. It was everything I wanted and needed it to be. Stunning. Beautiful. Flawless. Everyone was in top form here, but IMO especially Gaiman himself: this ranks already as one of my favorite things he's ever written, and I've basically read almost everything he's published and love so much of it, so that is high praise coming from me. I hope you can understand now, Mark, in some small way, why I'm so eager for you to get to Sandman yourself. And I really, really hope that everyone here who hasn't read it yet themselves will do so along with you, or read it before you get there so that they can relive it through your reviews.
Perhaps it's this familiarity with his work that allowed me to have a different reaction to the scenes in the TARDIS corridors where we see Rory mad and then dead. People have lumped that in with the repeated fake killings of Rory, and on one level, it is. But for me, it was also Gaiman getting his nightmare fuel on, and without spoiling one single thing he's written, I'll just say that he's very good at that. Very very good indeed. I also feel that it's quite clearly meant to be something to screw with Amy's head, so there is that to add to it. It's a horrifying nightmare vision to make us shudder and upset Amy, and Gaiman does that sort of thing like no one else. Bravo, Neil. It worked perfectly for me.
The most important thing to take away from all this, for me, is DOCTOR/TARDIS OTP FOREVER! SERIOUSLY! I just don't have adequate words for how it felt to see them finally able to talk to each other, "amazing" doesn't seem to quite cover it, does it? No, I don't think it does. The confirmation of what we've all suspected for ages, that she takes him where he needs to be, rather than where he wants to go: brilliant. Perfect. Companions may come and go, but she's his TARDIS and he's her Doctor, and she'll always be there for him when everyone else leaves. She's always been there for him, for so many years, so much longer than any human could. Gaiman wrote her just how I pictured she would be if she could talk, and I loved her. I could see the love between her and the Doctor plain as day in their words to each other, the way Matt Smith and Suranne Jones (who is wonderful here) acted. "Oh, my beautiful idiot, you have what you've always had. You've got me." And she has him. My heart broke into a million pieces at the ending, yes, I absolutely did cry, buckets. It was sad enough to see their brief time of being able to really talk to each other come to an end, that's sad enough in itself – but Gaiman takes even that and knocks it out of the park, makes it such an intensely bittersweet moment. She's not gone, they'll always have each other, but they can never speak to each other again like this, in the way you know they both have wanted for so long. A brief flash of happiness unlike any other in his long life, and now it's over before he knows it; no wonder the Doctor is starting to cry as they say goodbye. And because Matt Smith can destroy me emotionally like neither of his predecessors on this new Who can, that's when I really started weeping, when he said "Please, I don't want you to". I was already wibbly, and then that sealed it, all the tears were pouring out. I've never wanted to reach through the screen and give him a hug as badly as I did after she vanished. Never. I got all sniffly again at the very end, too, but that was the big one.
(Will it sound hopelessly perverted if I say that I want to see the Doctor's bedroom? I mean, yes, okay, I do perv on this incarnation rather a lot, I've never hidden that… but, you know, you know it just has to be interesting! Like visiting Dumbledore's office! For that matter, I want to see the Ponds' bedroom. With or without bunk beds.)
So yeah, beautiful perfect amazing wonderful incredible superlative to the max episode. Thank you, Neil Gaiman. Come back and do more, please. You lived up to my expectations and then some.
Other stuff:
– HOLY FUCK the unhinged and then dead Rory. And the writing on the wall. Like I said, nightmare fuel, serious nightmare fuel. It bears repeating.
– "The only water in the forest is the river." WTF DOES THIS MEAN nobody answer I FEEL IT MIGHT HAVE TO DO WITH OUR LOVELY DR. SONG. I am intrigued!
– Ood~ <3 <3 <3
– "Fear me, I've killed them all." HAHAHA, I knew that had to be from this episode, the minute Gaiman tweeted after the trailer's release that it was great to hear his dialogue in it. So badass, and it just sounded like him.
– The setting was ridiculously cool and dark and fascinating and I want to explore it~
– The scene where he gets angry about being lured here by what turned out to be false hope is another example of why I think Matt Smith is so good at being quietly intimidating and is so much better at being scary in this way than Ten was.
– Eleven's affection for bunk beds is so adorable and endearing. I love you forever, Eleven.
"For that matter, I want to see the Ponds' bedroom. " – What is this, Torchwood? 😉
I kinda got the feeling with this that Gaiman has come to Who at just the right time as his sensibilities seem to work VERY well with Moffat's storytelling and the current production design. Also shows what happens when a proper, long term fanboy who just so happens to be a great author gets a chance to let loose. Now fingers crossed that a) Gaiman was being serious when he said he might be interested in doing another and b) he doesn't take *quite* as long this time…
"Matt Smith is so good at being quietly intimidating and is so much better at being scary in this way than Ten was." – Oh good LORD yes! Ten was angry, all the time, and that's not scary for anyone but the characters. When someone's quiet, when the rage is clearly just beneath the surface and being used in conjunction with intellect… THAT'S when it's scary for everyone. Still get a serious 7 vibe off 11 at times when that bumbling madman in a box drops away, the whole body language changes and the eyes go very, very dark indeed.
Oh, I hope he means it, he better, and yes please let it not take as long!
Matt Smith is so good at being quietly intimidating and is so much better at being scary in this way than Ten was.
This. With Nine and Ten- I think (and I'm mostly guessing on Ten since I'm still 4 episodes away from Series 2, so this guessing is from what I've read and heard) a person could visibly tell if they were getting angry because we can see them get quiet, but we can also tell if it's when they're getting angry.
Eleven on the other-hand- could sit there quietly and smile, and you'd have no idea until his anger is right up in front of you, and there'd be little chance of escaping it, unless you can pick up on it before-hand. And my main example is his scene with River Song from TIA when he's going "Now I love a bad girl, me", and there's a very small contort of his face- but that one small contort made me feel like all my insides had to decided to freeze, and I was terrified.
Or when he quietly (and with a SMILE) asked Ambrose in "The Hungry Earth" not to take any weapons. I got goosebumps.
Yeah, both that moment and the one Tauriel mentioned are other examples. Brrrr, shivers down my spine.
Will it sound hopelessly perverted if I say that I want to see the Doctor's bedroom?
Actually, the way I understood it, is that the main console room is the Doctor's bedroom, because it's the heart of the TARDIS and he always wants to be close to her. 🙂 As if Rory's question was answered without words, just by that lovely montage of the Doctor working around the console.
Oh, I think so too! I just can't help but imagine some sort of delightfully (see what I did there?) strange actual bedroom for him. =D
Maybe he hangs a hammock below the console? 😀
Ooh, now THERE's an idea for a fanart! 🙂
THIS.
I was with you exactly what you were on the Gaiman front– I haven't quite read everything by him, but I've read a lot of stuff by him, and loved pretty much everything. I was SUPER excited for this episode, but then I started worrying that I was making some hypothetical Gaiman-penned episode in my mind that was so fantastic that nothing could possibly live up to it.
I am very glad I was wrong, because this episode is completely amazing.
[i]People have lumped that in with the repeated fake killings of Rory, and on one level, it is. But for me, it was also Gaiman getting his nightmare fuel on, and without spoiling one single thing he's written, I'll just say that he's very good at that. Very very good indeed. [/i]
I hadn't thought about this part of the episode this way, but if you're referencing what I think you are… yes. Gaiman is unimaginably good at the application of nightmare fuel. Your comment made me draw all sorts of comparisons I hadn't thought of before.
Is it wrong to want to marry this post?
Idris is SUCH a Neil Gaiman character. I mean, just LOOK at her.
"I've been looking for a word." ALSO SUCH A NEIL GAIMAN THING TO SAY. Sinople. CHANGE.
<img src="http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv301/vick1986_album/tardis.jpg">
That macro is made of undeniable win.
I LOL'd
😀
rofl that is perfect!
Is it just me or does Mr. Olivander look like Pertwee.
Yeah he kind of does.
That was my first thought, that Pertwee just hadn't been doing proper grooming.
Hahaha amazing.
The world needs more HP/DW Crossovers.
I still think Eleven/Luna would be the most epic friendship of all time. ALL TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME.
LUNA FOR COMPANION!!!
And Neville. Neville is a BAMF. (Especially the Neville from "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality", which is my favourite HP fanfic ever, even though it's completely AU)
Oh dear I'm not sure putting the two greatest cloudcuckoolanders in fiction together is such a good idea, the universe might just explode due to pure weirdness.
I must have wished *really hard* for this macro!!
THIS.
FUCKING THIS.
YOU WIN THE FUCKING INTERNET MY FRIEND.
Can we all agree that 'Did you wish REALLY hard?' is the best line in all of everything?
I was in stitches.
So the Corsair was able to change sex during regenerations? Does this mean Moffat want 12 to be a woman, i vote for Kate Winslet!
No way, it's totally gonna be River. The Doctor is actually in love with himself.
Noooo, Emma Thompson! She'd be the perfect female Doctor!
This is true. Emma Thompson would also be wonderful.
My god YES TO THIS.
I don't want the Doctor to be a female, but Emma Thompson – YES.
First image post, I really hope the code works:
<img> <a href="http://;http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll7dxa9KDP1qc83vdo1_500.png” target=”_blank”>;http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll7dxa9KDP1qc83vdo1_500.png
<url =http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll7dxa9KDP1qc83vdo1_500.png>(Source)</url>
The size of 'Pull to Open' increases (And is, at one point, italicised) as time goes on.
Oh, damn.
<img src="http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll7dxa9KDP1qc83vdo1_500.png">
It's < img src="URL" > without the spaces after < and before >
Thank you epic person!
It's like she's getting pushier with the 'pull to open' thing, isn't it?
Its like she's yelling at him.
Also, how wonderful would it be if from this point onwards the Doctor always pulls to open?
but are you really at a point with your companions that you have to lie to them in order to get them to let you do your own thing?
Rule One: The Doctor lies. 😉
So here's my thing with the fanfic bit. People are using it as a perjorative, and it doesn't…. have to be. I want my showrunners and episode writers to be fans of the work. I want them to LIKE it and ADORE it and MAKE IT BETTER. I want it to be fic written by fans.
That said, "fanfic" has a specific term (at least, to me), and that term means, among other things, to be Not Canon. This- this entire episode, is Canon. It's sanctioned. As an episode, it is the most Canonical thing possible. So….
So what?
It was beautiful. It was so Gaiman, who loves to personify things, and Suranne Jones was amazing. The expression on her face, all sadness and steel, when she looks over the TARDIS graveyard…. she was Matt's equal and it was beautiful.
I also love how Rory is the Pretty One and Amy is Orangey Girl- I wonder what the Tardis's name for Donna is- Loud Girl? Martha? Rose?
And I love, love love love that the Tardis feels she stole the Doctor. They have the loveliest co-dependant relationship, the Boy and his Box.
We know there are female Time Lords- we saw some of the in The End of Time, and Romana is one. Neil said in a post-episode interview that he felt that Time Lords could switch gender was already canon- Eleven wondered at his regeneration if he was a girl, so OBVIOUSLY it was possible- and Neil is happy that THAT throwaway line made it in, after all the other cuts for time were made.
Isn't the entirety of NuWho just as much fanfic as this episode?
Pretty much, yes, when you think about it… 🙂
I think pondering characters' TARDIS names is going be a whole new exciting game in itself.
I reckon 'the Shouty Woman' for Donna.
Hee, I thought the same (with love of course)
IMO the reason it feels a bit LIKE fanfiction is because, fanfiction is what fandom produces to fulfill something we want from the show but aren't getting. And this episode was full of SO MANY THINGS the fandom has been wanting to know/see.
But it is Canon, it just fills all our little fanficcy dreams.
And, finally, I would just like to leave you with a link to this amazing video from Doctor Who Confidential, of the Doctor's relationship with the TARDIS set to "You Sexy Thing"
I don't usually watch Doctor Who Confidential, but I'm so glad I did this time. I was grinning from ear to ear! Whoever made that video was a genius!
I love that most of the Confidential was basically a love letter to the TARDIS and Doctor/TARDIS.
First time I've watched a Confidential that I wasn't utterly bored by the second half. Even the segment with the caterers wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I loved that Neil Gaiman did the tour guide/narrator stuff for it – he was fantastic!
"This is breakfast! It has beans!"
Neil's script is beautiful. I need to read it. It's written in that very unique Gaiman voice with MANY more details and descriptions (and alliterations and similes!) than are usually put into scripts. Actually, I need Gaiman to read all of the script for me, that would be the most amazing thing.
<img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/NB2000/LOLCats/Gifs/tumblr_ll7pejRTdL1qzmd68.gif">
^^ This gif? This was basically me throughout this episode (only female and brunette and hugging a plastic TARDIS instead of a cushion). I seriously cannot begin to put into words how much I love this episode. It's extremely difficult not to make my comment several rows of <3<3<3<3<3<3 because THAT IS HOW MUCH I LOVE IT! My OTP is canon, there are no words for how I am feeling!
The characterisation of the Human!TARDIS was spot on. "You're not my TARDIS, you're a bitey mad lady!" Well of course she is, anyhing else would be totally out of character. My heart absolutely broke for her when she described the dead TARDISes as her "sisters". Every single second of her interacting with the Doctor was just beautifully done. Her nicknames for Amy and Rory (particularly Rory's, hee) have got me wondering how she refers to all of the previous companions.
Matt…I'm probably going to be saying the same thing as everyone else but Matt was on fire in this episode. I'd try and pick out a favourite moment of his for the episode but I HONESTLY can't. I'll think I've finally chosen one (the "Since we're talking with actual mouths…" speech for example) and then remember something else (like the goodbye scene) and realise I seriously cannot pick. Amazing performance by Mr Smith.
(cont.)
I saw the video of the WonderCon panel and heard Neil mention the "He's a Time Lord!" "That's just what they're called, it doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing." dialogue so when it showed up there was much giggling from me. Amy and Rory in general were amazing throughout (although seriously Ponds you need to learn to HOLD HANDS when running for your lives!). It's a brief detail but I love that Amy's representation of 'delight' was of her wedding. Also love the idea that you have to think the password not just say it.
Two of the major things I took from this episode: Back in my comment for The Impossible Astronaut I wondered what 1103!Doctor had done with the TARDIS, and now I'm REALLY curious. That version would have already gone through this story and presumably feel even more…attatched (if that's the right word) to her than his earlier self, and yet she's nowhere to be seen. WHAT DID HE DO WITH HER?!
Secondly, I may have mentioned it, I probably didn't. I've always been slightly cross with Rose, Mickey and Jackie (but mostly Rose, because this is me) for taking a chain and tow truck to the TARDIS console back in The Parting of the Ways and now I'm REALLY pissed off with them for dong that. Somehow I doubt the TARDIS appreciated having parts of her ripped open. I may be the only one who feels this way, I'm oddly okay with that though.
Oooh, yeah. They hurt her. 🙁
I'd always thought of the TARDIS as sentient so stuff like that was always bad enough but now that we have confirmation that she is, the whole Master turning the TARDIS into a paradox machine is extra horrifying.
Oh god, and surely the Master would have KNOWN about it being sentient when he did that so…excuse me I need to go sit in the corner and cry.
Lol, I had the same thought regarding the paradox machine. So sad 🙁
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Ugh, yes. So much of those two episodes are utterly horrifying if you think about them just a bit (what exactly the Master was doing to Jack for that whole year is near the top of the list). The Master ripping up the TARDIS was plenty horrifying already, but now that we've actually met her in a persona; sense, that scene just got about 50 times worse.
Yeah. ;_;
Don't forget her blowing up for nearly 2,000 years. Or being thrown into the fire of the Crucible. Or being unable to communicate with the Doctor when the Time Lords broke their psychic connection. Or whe….
Yeah, she's taken a lot of abuse over the years.
You're not the only one. I've always hated that they tore her apart like that. I also cringe when I see the Master's Paradox Machine. Of course, the first one was portrayed as heroic and the second one wasn't. I wonder if the TARDIS understood that Rose was trying to save the Doctor.
I think she did because I've always felt there was a bit of the TARDIS in Bad Wolf Rose, especially with the 'My Doctor' line.
I agree that she definitely knew what was happening at that point, but I wonder if she understood the situation when they started tugging on her. I'm guessing she couldn't feel the Doctor nearby and knew that something big was going on.
I'm starting to mentally go back over pretty much every episode where something happened to damage the TARDIS in some way and D: so much for her (especially for something like The Pandorica Opens, OH GOD SEXY YOU POOR THING!)
I keep thinking about Turn Left, where she's dying (and probably knows the Doctor is dead) and still trying to help.
Now you're both breaking my heart 🙁
Don't be sad! Think of Sexy and her Doctor! She finally got to say hello, which is a little bit sad, but also kind of happy.
The word hello has never had so much meaning. I think everyone expected something like love at that moment but that was just perfect.
They will travel and be happy together forever and ever.
<img src="http://i52.tinypic.com/hve1c8.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I think everyone expected something like love at that moment
I know I did, I was utterly convinced that the "big word, sad word" she was looking for was going to be "love". "alive" and "hello" were more beautifully heartbreaking though.
Just … all of the feelings. Everything is beautiful and everything hurts.
God, this comment thread is the most depressing thing in mark watches history
brb sobbing into pillow all night
You're not the only one.
…I must make myself one of those. *hopes html works*
I honestly had no idea what to expect. But it made sense to me once she said it, total perfect sense. It was very Gaiman, just like the rest of the episode.
Oh…oh god…
<img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/NB2000/LOLCats/Gifs/00009b8h.gif"/>
I must be the cruelest being EVER because this gif has me heartily laughing. I'm sorry, I will do penance now.
Other things:
– It will never happen but I so wish we could see The Corsair alive at some point. He/She sounded FUN!
– "I'm rather enjoying the sensation of you running around inside of me!" …EWWWWWW. No seriously out of everything in this episode, people using chopped up bits of other people to fix themselves, dead TARDISes everywhere, THAT LINE was what squicked me the most. Just…eurgh*shudder*.
– speaking of the patchwork people. The Doctor's line about "I doubt there's anything left of what used to be you." was a good point and pretty scary thought.
– Okay, my ONE problem with the episode was Auntie and Uncle's fate. That they just…drop dead. It felt a bit too obviously mechanical. It was clearly due to the fact that they're no longer necessary for the story so off they go. I can totally understand why it happened and why it's like that but it felt a bit too much like a plot point. (why yes I am being useless at explaining technical points again).
Before this episode my only familiarity with Neil Gaiman's work was the movie versions of Stardust and Coraline (which isn't all that familiar really). I've had a copy of Good Omens sitting untouched on my to-read pile since my last birthday (back in AUGUST). This episode has mde me want to actually crack on and read it, and possibly look into more of his work.
Good Omens is a bit more of Terry Pratchett's show than Neil Gaiman's, but Pratchett is wonderful too, so needless to say it's a wonderful book. I would recommend reading the books of Stardust and Coraline, as well as Graveyard Book, American Gods, and Anansi Boys, but especially Sandman. Which is relevant to Mark's blogs. 😀
Yeah I've seen a few people describe it as more of a Pratchett book (which is part of why I chose it, I lack familiarity with his work too). I might try and get Sandman at some point, no promises if I'll manage it for Reads though.
I'm not as familiar with Pratchett as I'd like to be, but I'm getting started now (working my way through the Tiffany Aching Discworld books and just read his take on the Pied Piper tale), and he's fast becoming one of my favorites (and omg, wtf is this sick, twisted world we live in where Diana Wynne Jones is gone and Terry Pratchett has early onset Alzheimers?!). The collaboration between him and Gaiman is definitely one of the greats of the ages, IMO.
Woah woah woah… you're starting Discworld with Tiffany Aching?
Noooo… I know that's *supposed* to be allowed, but oh the character development spoilers!
If you've decided that you like Pratchett, then start at the beginning. The first two are definitely below par, but it picks up at Equal Rites. If you're still unsure… then start at Equal Rites, then Wyrd Sisters, and THEN go back to the beginning because you'll be sold by then 😉
Well, I've read Color of Magic, but I've had odd luck with finding the others, meanwhile this subseries really appealed to me. And I do love it, not just for Tiffany, but also for the Nac Mac Feegle, who destroy me with laughter every time they show up. Crivens! 😀
Yeah, but the Tiffany books aren't even where the Nac Mac Feegle first show up…
I just hate that you get spoiled for some key character development / plot points of several of the Witches books (Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Maskerade, Carpe Jugulum)… and the Witches subseries is my favorite out of all of the subserieses (is that a valid plural?). And the character development is part of why I love it so much.
I'm really picky about spoilers though, I take a similar approach to what Mark does, and I know that isn't for everyone. Just glad you're enjoying the books 🙂
Crivens!
The Nac Mac Feegle are the best 😀
I don't know … Equal Rites and Wyrd Sisters are both books I started reading AFTER I started Pratchett and I still wasn't into them. I think if I started with those, I would have dropped Pratchett.
I recommend starting with the Watch books, or with Witches Abroad. I feel like that's when I fell in love with the Witches.
But of course, I read everything completely out of order (I think the first Pratchett books I read were Night Watch and Thief of Time, which of course is how I fell in love with Discworld).
Well, the Tiffany Aching books WERE written as an introduction to Discword for the kids who read them, so I think it's fine. But what do I know – I basically read the series backwards from Going Postal.
(None of the first 10 books did it for me, wasn't until Reaper Man that I emotionally connected with the book, became engaged with the plot lines, and laughed at the humour, but since it was the last book my school library had and the others had been so personally tedious for me I didn't bother to look the rest up)
It wasn't till I happened across Nation and loved it that I dove back in and uh, since I knew I loved his recent books but not so much the older ones, I figured I'd read each storyline backwards until I stopped liking them. The thing is I just finished Witches Abroad and loved it (and I read Small Gods a little while ago and was blown away) so who knows really?
One side affect of reading the Watch books backwards though was it was quite disorienting to have name ranks going down as I went (Corporal Carrot what?). Of course, I didn't read everything systematically backwards, and i jumped between storylines a bit, got some books mixed up etc
Well, I seem to have just written a whole pamphlet on "How I Read The Discword Series" … uh, I'm sorry about that?
Yeah, and the whole "who'd have thought the Watch would ever hire a w…" would be a little spoilered…
and just read his take on the Pied Piper tale
There's a radio dramatisation of "The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents", which features DAVID TENNANT as Dangerous Beans. It's pretty good, check it out! 🙂
Okay, that sounds seriously awesome, I did not know about that. =O I loved that book, and Dangerous Beans was one of my favorite characters in it, so I would LOVE to hear that!
I recently read the Tiffany books and LOVED them! Do you remember the "best friends" picture Mark made of Ginny after the great debate? With hearts drawn all over? I want to do that for Tiffany, she's just the best. And the Nac Mac Feegle are hilarious and adorable.
I would also really, really recommend the short story collection "Fragile Things". The stories are more fucked up and amazing than I can possibly describe. It's my favorite of Gaiman's books.
Ack, thought of more things but arctic_hare replied before I could edit:
– In an extremely shallow observation, Matt's hair in this episode seemed closer to the way it was last series. Slightly longer and more messy than it was for the last three episodes and I just have to say THANK GOD! It's not Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone level of insanity but it's close enough.
– Small detail that I loved: Amy and Rory putting themselves between the Doctor and the mad woman trying to bite him. It's probably a totally obvious thing for them to do but I loved it anyway.
– "The only water in the forest is the river." Moment of geekiness aside
(OMG one of the hints from The Brilliant Book!), I know there'll almost certainly be some sort of twist to it but for now I'm more than willing to accept that this is a reference to River, and to continue shipping Doctor/TARDIS/River as a side note to my Doctor/TARDIS OTP.
Hahaha, yes, agreed on that shallow observation. I loved his messy, floppy, out of control hair last series and have missed it.
Possible TARDIS nicknames for companions (well you asked ;)):
Sarah Jane: Reporter Girl, the Always in Trouble One (could also be used for Rose)
Rose: Blondie, the Sassy One, Bad Wolf Girl
Martha: the Other Doctor, the Smart One
Donna: Red, Doctor Donna
Jack: The Sexy One, The Horny One
Mickey: The One with the Ears
Amy: the Girl Who Waited, The Other Redheaded One
River Song: The Other Wife, The One Who Drives Me Correctly
River can drive me correctly any day. 😛
River "learned from the best"…
… Sexy taught River directly?
Um, she does say in TPO that "You taught me, remember?", so I assume it was the Doctor (albeit a future version of him).
But yeah, Sexy teaching River directly makes a lot of sense! 😀
I didn't notice that she said the Doctor taught her. There was the joke at one point that she "learned from the best", to which the Doctor said "thanks", and she followed up with "shame you weren't around that day" or something.
THEORIES ABOUND
“The only water in the forest is the river”?I don't know why but I immediately thought of Easter Island. I’m thinking that Easter Island deforestation was caused by aliens. Checked google earth and there is no streams ponds or anything on easter island. And River mentioned easter island in the sync-up scene in series six premiere. Could this be similar to the offhand mention of the crash of the Byzantium?
The Easter Island comment from River is an in joke. I recall Charlie Brooker joking that Matt Smith had a face like an Easter Island statue when he gave a glowing tribute to Smith as the new Dr last year.
I love the Tardis/Doctor interractions, but I'm still so sad about them destroying all the former companions' rooms. the only proof that they were ever there, in cases like Donna's.
It reminded me of a bit in a classic episode. I believe it was "Logopolis", in which the Doctor is forced to jettison Romana's room. It's a really brief moment, and Four is usually pretty detached anyway, but for just a second he has this terribly sad look on his face before he does it.
"Suzanne Jones is rather perfect as the soul of the TARDIS" So perfect that you got her name wrong? It's Surrane but it is a bit of an odd name so you can be forgiven, she was rather good wasn't she. Most famous before this for marrying a long running character in Coronation Street and then probably acting miserable for several years before being killed off in some horrible way.
Suranne, actually, not Surrane. If you're going to correct someone, spellcheck!
My reaction upon watching the first few minutes of the episode:
<img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l71/bishsticks1x2/reaction.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
After watching this episode, I had an epiphany:
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oh shit
OH SHIT THAT MAKES SO MUCH GODDAMN SENSE SDFULJKSGF /FOAMS AT MOUTH AND KEELS OVER
Your epiphany blows my mind
Oh my god, please let this be so! I was thinking gene messer uppers but this is ten times better!
I had pretty much the same reaction as you did. I'd heard that this episode would be called "The Doctor's Wife" a few weeks ago and my brain went crazy trying to figure out who it would be. And there were some pretty cracky theories rolling around my head. Then I finally see the episode and I think "Oh duh. That makes total sense!"
And I love your epiphany! If it turns out to be true – YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS!
Don't know if it will be true, but I'm sure someone, somewhere, is writing this fanfic regardless!
Your epiphany is making my brain melt!!
That epiphany flitted through my mind after the credits rolled. It would be amazing if that's where it's going.
And Amy is the surrogate mom.
The Tardis liked being human and wanted to express her love for the Doctor by having his child so the Tardis impregnated Amy! Oh! Someone has got to write this fanfic now! XD
Neil Gaiman, get on it!
I WANT THIS!
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GOD I LOVE THIS COMMENT
*stares*
Could….could Amy be impregnated partly by the the TARDIS?
OH MY GOD.
YES PLEASE.
I totally screamed the same epiphany after I saw the TARDIS turn into a person. If we are right….victory dances for all 😀
I think you meant in the beginning a female Doctor. That would indeed be very interesting, but I don't think anyone's quite ready for that yet. You've seen "An Unearthly Child" with the Doctor's grandaughter and I think you've seen Romana, right? So yeah, you've seen female Time Lords (Ladies?)
One of the hosts of my favorite DW podcasts had made a theory a long time ago that River Song is the Master, or she was the TARDIS. Haha, well the latter seems untrue at any rate.
This is… oh god, I don't even know, it's so good. One of my favorite episodes ever though. Most definitely.
Oh, and I may as well share a theory I cross-posted on tumblr:
I just listened to the latest episode of Bigger on the Inside podcast, and Mike and Dan (the hosts) were talking about how they keep almost killing Rory, and the patch lady. I came across this post that reminded me of the whole part-of-this-season-might-be-taking-place-inside-of-Amy’s-head theory. Forgive me, I’m not very eloquent.
——
So in the end of Amy’s first… “hallucination” it seems most likely that House was playing off Amy’s deepest fears. Deep down inside Amy might be scared that Rory resents and hates her for making him wait those 2000 years, while even before the Pandorica opened she didn’t really treat Rory right. It took her a long time to reassure his fears that she loved him over the Doctor, and even then it felt like she kept… messing with his heart, y’know? Not really intentionally, but the way she acts flirtatiously is a bit worrying for someone who’s supposed to be your fiance. Especially when the one she’s being flirtatious with is this… incredible, mad, space/time traveler, whose impacted both their childhoods and lives. (Rory is aiming to become a Doctor, because that’s what Amy liked to play pretend as when they were kids). I mean, talk about difficult to fight against. After all, we as fans know about the whole Rose/Micky debacle. And subconsciously Amy may feel really guilty over all of that.
So if part of this season is taking place in Amy’s head, the reason Rory seemingly keeps dying might actually be fed off her fears.
So this whole Rory/Kenny thing might actually serve as a plot point. Also, this:
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Despite the fact that I too am afraid for Rory in every episode, those Tweets are amazing and beautiful.
LMAO! XD Moffat really is evil. 😛
lmao, honestly. He is evil.
The TARDIS being confirmed as living being definitely puts a spin on things like when the Doctor says: "Oh she's having a bit of tantrum- we could try stroking her and singing to her a bit." xD
But other than that- RORY IS THE PRETTY ONE, AND MATT SMITH FOR ALL THE AWARDS. I think Matt managed to break more than few dozen hearts with this expression:
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And then there's Karen Gillan, aside Arthur Darvill, who continues to slam it out of the park. I think it's starting to become a general thought that old-man!Rory and his skeleton being among several written declarations of 'KILL', 'HATE', and 'DIE AMY' (which is so horrible I can't even) – is House screwing with Amy mentally and generating a manifestation of any guilt she has over Rory having done his 2000 year wait for, and her being scared of him ever resenting her. HJAKFHASK ;_; AMY.
oh my god, I can't even look at that GIF without tearing up!
Matt Smith's teary-sad face is pretty much lethal.
That gif is totally another example of "You look at that and tell me Matt is too young to play the Doctor." (yes, I still have a few "friends" who try to argue this.)
Either that or- like I've been seeing in other places (so said people are very few in number, unless I'm just being naive)- those who are still saying that David is still better at emotional.
And I'm just like…
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For god's sake- STOP TRYING TO COMPARE DAVID AND MATT. They're both good at what they do.
THAT GIF! ;_____________;
DOCTOR/TARDIS IS CANON! MY OTP IS CANON!
*ahem*
I’ve tried a few times today but I’m still not entirely coherent about this episode yet because I love everything about it and it was just the most perfect episode possible for me after recent stress. So as much as I want write pages upon pages about this episode I’m just going to sum up my feelings throughout this episode via gifs
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I also haven’t been able to get ‘The Mad Man With A Box’ out of my head all day and will forever associate it with the wonderful last scene of the Doctor and the TARDIS flying off on another new adventure together.
‘It’s always you and her isn’t it, long after the rest of us are gone.’
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OTP!
THIS! ALL OF IT!
Excellent gif choices!
OTP OTP OTP! Doctor/TARDIS forever!
That last GIF made me tear up when I think of Idris/Tardis saying, "My Thief!!"
oh great. now me too
And so the group of Doctor/TARDIS shippers in the MarkWatches community grows exponentially….I'm on board!
Seriously, just…delightful and heartbreaking all at once. Matt Smith's *face* when he didn't want her to go…the lost little boy personified – lip wobble! The TARDIS/Idris was written *perfectly*. EXACTLY what I needed after last week. Please come back, Neil Gaiman.
Poor Rory 🙁
As a Doctor/Tardis shipper, Neil Gaiman fan, and someone who has wanted to see more of the Tardis for a long time, I'm afraid that I have nothing to add but fangirlish squee. Squee.
This episode was originally going to be in the last series, but they ran out of money, so they shot the Lodger instead. I'm kind of glad that it turned out this way because 1. Rory's wouldn't have been in it and 2. I would have been a wreck if I had to watch the Pandorica Opens and see the Tardis explode after all this emotion and getting to know her properly.
I have to address how damn creepy old, dying Rory was. It was obviously House messing with their heads, but I wonder if he was playing with Amy's guilt or Rory's feelings of resentment.
2. I would have been a wreck if I had to watch the Pandorica Opens and see the Tardis explode after all this emotion and getting to know her properly.
I hadn't even thought about what an emotional wreck that would have made me!!!
RELEVANT GIF IS RELEVANT.
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Also, 'did you wish really hard?' will never stop being funny XD.
Speaking of Karen, I thought her performance was FANTASTIC here. She has really improved since Series 5, IMHO. The scene where she breaks down seeing Rory's "corpse" is heartwrenching.
True, I just didn't want to rave about that for the fourth episode in a row 😉 That being said I'd also maybe argue her performances in S5 were just as good but more restrained because of where Amy was as a character. See the end of Amy's Choice (not Rory dying, though that is very good, but the explanation to him in the TARDIS about why she chose to die in that dream) and Cold Blood for examples.
This. So hard.
Look, I have a job, and I've been refreshing all morning!! Ok, lucky for me, my boss is out, but still.
I don't know much about Michael Sheen, but his voice is really really hot. Just…throwing that out there.
Also, I love how the fandom on the internet seems to have just adopted 'Sexy' as the official name for the TARDIS in human form.
Actually, his voice was distorted for this episode, in reality it's not THAT deep. But yeah, it's definitely sexy! 😉
I think of Michael Sheen as "that guy who always plays Tony Blair." He's been Blair THREE TIMES–in The Queen, The Special Relationship, and The Deal (all written by the same person, so I suppose that makes some sense).
This is, hands down, my favorite episode of Doctor Who EVER. And I say that not as someone stanning Neil Gaiman–I've never read a single one of his books and my knowledge of him roughly boils down to, "Um? He exists? He's male? He writes things?" BUT OH MY GOD IT WAS AMAZING.
And thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for saying what you did about Matt Smith. I realize everyone has their own opinions and I accept that, but Matt Smith is MY Doctor and for exactly the reasons you said. <3
I loveeeee this episode. I've always been fascinated by the idea of inanimate things talking (which is why Toy Story is amazing) but the TARDIS has always been a character that needed a voice! Even better when it's done amazingly well like it was in this episode. I really love the idea that actually he didn't just steal her, she stole him. I also love how she called him out on his pushing the door instead of pulling (oops did not notice that before…- the sign did appear magically bigger for this episode though – although in my defence didn't have 700 years to notice ;)).
Oh, ALSO:
Neil Gaiman, what is your brain.
SOMETHING FOR WHICH YOU ARE NOT PREPARED IN THE SLIGHTEST AHAHAHAHAHA MINE IS AN EVIL LAUGH 😀 😀 😀
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Oh man everybody is so happy about this episode!
Also YES THE HYPERCUBE: this season was my first time watching new Who having actually seen a ton of Classic Who so holy crap I was way to excited to see that thing and finally know what something is!
Honestly this totally wasn't what I was expecting at all. A while back I'd heard a title of another episode or maybe something I totally just made up in my head and for some reason I thought the Gaiman episode was going to be about a monster we'd seen before. Then I found out the ACTUAL title of this ep and I was still expecting something way different. Suprises, they are good! I mean I'm sure I don't have a lot to say at this point that hasn't been saidso I'll go read the comments and come back if I have anything to add.
I
So, assuming the Doctor was telling the truth (Rule one: the Doctor lies), this means we can have a FEMALE DOCTOR. Why is it so easy for me to imagine a gender-swapped Who as a "magical girlfriend" manga?
Absolutely dotty, with her perception bouncing all around time making her talk like that guy from The Longest Journey whose name escapes me. Really, is there any other way you could write the TARDIS? (Suddenly, "the Island is a Time Lord and Locke's its TARDIS" has actually gained some plausibility.)
Was Rory actually aged 2,000 years (well, "actually" within the context of the illusion) or was he just referring to his watch over the Pandorica?
I don't know what dust smells like after rain. I'd be toast. 🙁
I'm going to put a wild theory out there and say that "the only water in the forest is the river" does not refer to River Song, or even the episode "Forest of the Dead." If I'm right, that's some major misdirection.
Oh, and tomorrow? The Doctor's so gonna be kicking himself for not asking about those pregnancy tests. Or the explosion.
So, are you looking forward to The Sandman now?
I don't know what dust smells like after rain. I'd be toast
Oh no! Haven't you ever smelled it after it's been a really hot day and then it rains on the hot dirt and it smells glorious.
It's one of my favourite smells! Which is..kind of a weird thing to say, but you know what I mean.
Wet dirt is one of the best smells in the world, IMO.
I actually prefer the smell of Tarmac after rain, that burned and industrial smell that still somehow has an indefinable sweetness to it.
It mostly only grows in deserts in western north america, but the smell of creosote bush after rain is gorgeous.
After it rains is one of my favourite smells as well. One of the upsides to living in a generally rainy climate.
Why is it so easy for me to imagine a gender-swapped Who as a "magical girlfriend" manga?
There is actually a fan-made manga featuring the female versions of the Doctor's incarnations. Let me try and find the links for you. 😉
(Suddenly, "the Island is a Time Lord and Locke's its TARDIS" has actually gained some plausibility.)
LOL! Although I prefer the theory that the Island is a TARDIS and the old woman played by Allison Janney is a Time Lady.
Was Rory actually aged 2,000 years (well, "actually" within the context of the illusion) or was he just referring to his watch over the Pandorica?
I think he was just referring to the time he waited for her, not that he [aged Rory] had been waiting in the TARDIS corridor for that long. I hope not anyway, because that would mean illusion!Rory was over 4,000 years old and I would feel really bad for him.
Was Rory actually aged 2,000 years (well, "actually" within the context of the illusion) or was he just referring to his watch over the Pandorica?
He was referring to his watch over the Pandorica, but also saying that Amy left him again (this time in the tunnels) until he was old enough to be an old man. But then again- this was just House screwing with Amy's mind.
I like the smell before a good thunderstorm myself. The air just feels crisp and cool and there's a little bite to it.
So many gifs I need to save– I love you guys for that. I can't comment on this episode because I've only seen it once and I feel like I need to see it at least twice more to get over the squee and start thinking coherently.
So all I'm going to say is in response to this:
Neil Gaiman, what is your brain.
Mark, you are NOT PREPARED. Wait until you get to The Sandman. There's a reason that's what made Gaiman famous. Although maybe a warning, too? The Rory/Amy horror was… actually kinda mild by Gaiman standards. I can think of a number of things he's done that are even creepier.
(Moffat is still King of Nightmare Fuel, but Gaiman is in the top 5.)
I love how this episode has made the crack pairing canon! 😛
I mean, we all KNEW it was basically canon, but I never thought they'd actually…
*dances with glee*
The TARDIS said "I love you" when she faded away ;__;
EVERYTHING IS BEAUTIFUL BUT EVERYTHING STILL HURTS.
As others pointed out, you saw three Time Ladies in The End of Time (the Partisan – who Rassilon disintegrated, the Visionary, and the Doctor's mother). You also saw Susan in "An Unearthly Child" and Romana in "The Armageddon Factor". And Jenny from "The Doctor's Daughter" counts. What this episode did answer is if the Doctor could ever be a woman in the future – yes.
There wouldn’t be much of a fandom uproar over female Time-Lords. One was a companion for some time in the original series.
Two, actually: Susan and Romana.
Yeah, but if they ever regenerated the Doctor into a woman, you know fandom would explode and then implode. It would be the TARDIS explosion that ended the universe.
That's what I mean. (I didn't know Romana was a Time Lord, so I flat-out got that wrong.) I mean that I imagine the fandom might whine that THE DOCTOR IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GUY and then I'll just go MEH YOU ARE BORING
I honestly read that line of Mark's and thought of you.
I cackled, I really seriously did cackle. I am still doing so. He has no idea. No preparation. My glee will become a fine wine that will taste so sweet when he starts reading Gaiman stuff on here. 😀
Also:
OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED RORY! YOU BASTARDS!!!
/obligatory 😛
Flawless episode, flawless review. I am so happy with this show right now. This was jawdroppingly fantastic. I would like to write down all the things I loved about this but I may as well just put down 'all of it, down to Uncle's two left feet'. Instead, I'm just going to watch it again. For maybe the fifth time.
Also, of course Rory's the pretty one.
Here are some helpful links! =D
http://doctorwho.tumblr.com/post/5535504222/this-…
(Make sure to watch the video before going onto the next link I gave you)
and this was also an excellent catch.
http://anarchythatirun.tumblr.com/post/5534044285…
As a relatively new fan (I only came in last season), I've had so many wonderful ideas about the Doctor and the TARDIS's relationship. And almost all of them I simply filed away because I thought they were so corny and I figured the only place the world would ever see them attempted would be in horrible fanfic. Imagine my surprise and delight when Neil Gaiman gives us this episode, which not only uses all of those thoughts I once had – BUT ACTUALLY DID THEM WELL!!
(I have to admit – I am not very well-versed in Neil Gaiman's work. I picked up "The Graveyard Book" when I heard he was writing a DW episode and I've also seen "Coraline." I enjoyed them both, but I'm not what you'd call a hardcore Gaiman fan.)
I could list everything I loved here, but Mark and others have commented on them already. Except for one line that I don't think has gotten much attention. During the scene where the Doctor and the TARDIS are building a new TARDIS, the Doctor gets all huffy about how unreliable the TARDIS is and she never takes him where he wants to go. Then, the TARDIS comes back with this lovely little line that had me punching the air seven ways to Sunday:
"I took you where you needed to be."
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YES! YES YOU DID, TARDIS!!! YES YOU DID!
For all the talk in-show of how the TARDIS is a rickety old thing, it's always been a little pet theory of mine that the TARDIS really isn't that rickety and unreliable. I figure she's very in tune with the universe and has a good sense of where the Doctor is needed and that's why he sometimes doesn't land where he meant to. I didn't necessarily need that spelled out in canon – BUT HOLY CRAP IT'S WONDERFUL THAT IT WAS!!!
This entire episode was just a beautiful piece of storytelling. This sort of thing is what made me fall in love with "Doctor Who" in the first place. There is a lovely balance of humor and heart (and a few freakingly creepy monsters thrown in for good measure). My overall response to "The Doctor's Wife" is similar to how I responded to "Time Crash." You have a writer who has been a fan for a long time – he is totally dedicated to the continuity, but also wants to move the show forward while paying homage to his favorite parts. The result is so very, very special and wonderful. I don't know that anyone would else could have pulled this off as well as Neil Gaiman did.
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Bravo to you, Mr. Gaiman. Bravo, sir.
Very much agree with the sentiment that she isn't that rickety. I mean, how else could the Doctor always manage to land somewhere dangerous where people need help? Only if the TARDIS was taking him there.
I LOVED LOVED LOVED the Doctor/TARDIS bits in this episode. I've always thought Doctor/TARDIS was the OTP of this show and I feel so vindicated after this episode. The TARDIS is probably my favorite character in Doctor Who. Now, when I go back and rewatch episodes and hear Nine saying "The best ship in the universe" or Rose saying "She's still trying to help" in Turn Left, I'll think of Sexy and it will only add to the love I already had for the TARDIS. When I watch PotW, I'll think of Sexy saying "My Doctor." I'll think about how she stole him and he stole her and they never looked back.
I KNEW she always took him where he needed to go. Good old girl.
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Theories abound
No water in the forest means the PONDS will be missing, and the Doctor will have to find River to help sort out whichever problem he's having at that moment.
That's a rather brilliant theory.
Lovely theory!
Agreed, great theory, I like!
That was my theory as well. I will be happy if there's an explanation on why so many of the companions have water themed names.
I haven't even thought about Turn Left. ;_; Oh god that episode is even MORE heartbreaking now. I didn't think that was possible.
Been waiting for this post ever since Saturday! (:
As a fan of Gaiman and of Moffat I had been worried that I'd created some impossible standard this episode would be measured to.
I needn't have worried. Boy, did this episode deliver!
But my favourite bit (and that's saying a lot) of this episode had to do with TARDIS doors.
Back in the first episode of season 5 you can see TARDIS doors opening inside and outside within two minutes. This bothered me. I can't really explain why I can accept that TARDIS can move in space and time and yet not have doors that open both ways, but so it was.
I am thrilled this was finally addressed! Especially since the bickering was absolutely adorable! Ha! Things written on doors are instructions! (:
I would write more but reading all these comments has made me want to watch the episode again. So that's exactly what I'll do!
Things I have learned this season so far:
1) Rory has an annoyingly absurd amount of near-death experiences.
2) Rory is a nurse (this was like, the third time he mentioned it this season, right?)
3) Doctor/TARDIS really ARE OTP and I LOVE IT.
Such a gorgeous episode. When I went into watching it, my theory had been something along the lines of the Doctor getting accidentally engaged/married to Idris and then having to take care of her as he figures out how to get out of the junk yard thing. Not the best theory, obviously. But because this is what I was sort of thinking, this episode BLEW MY MIND.
Gorgeous, gorgeous, the entire thing. Amy and Rory's TARDIS adventure was SO CREEPY. The TARDIS was brilliant – BRILLIANT. Love the trouble with tenses and how she starts out with saying things from the future, because she still exists at all points. I howled at the Sexy line: "What do I call you?" "You call me… Sexy." "Not when we're alone!!" "We are alone." "Come on then, Sexy." And it was awesome to revist Nine and Ten's TARDIS. 😀 So weird to see Eleven and crew running about the old console. And I also love the moment when there's a TARDIS inside a TARDIS inside a TARDIS. 😀 And then the last goodbye/hello speech was absolutely heartbreakingly beautiful.
In conclusion, this is one of my favourite episodes FOR SURE.
So many thoughts on this episode, I don't remember the half of them.
I know that the second The Doctor hugged the Tardis last week, I immediately thought that if his wife didn't turn out to be his beautiful beautiful ship I would break something. Thank you Neil Gaiman for helping me keep my belongings in one piece!
And I have been repeating the same thing all weekend "Neil Gaiman, WHAT IS YOUR HEAD???" and also "Does he rent space inside of it?" Because I would buy a condo there. This is hands down, my favorite episode. Just gorgeous. I want the Tardis to talk ALL OF THE TIME.
Oh and hey other Time Lord's, I see you all have big and impressive Tardises (Tardis'?). Are you compensating for something? Well, maybe not you Time Lord with the washing machine Tardis. I know, they all have working chameleon circuits, but the battleship is a little overkill yes?
I think my favorite part was hearing the Tardis say how she stole The Doctor. They really are a pair yes? Two thieves gallivanting about time and space being awesome. It makes me laugh too to think of how the other Time Lords viewed the Doctor as compared to how we do. We see a grandfatherly rebel who knows more than we ever could, and rights wrongs across the universe with the help of a very impressive ship. The Time Lords saw a 200 year old kid who took his granddaughter to a museum and nicked a relic for shits and giggles. I really wonder what his kids thought when they heard what dad had done.
I really think that The Doctor's line opens up the possibility that The Doctor could regenerate into a woman, which was the BIGGEST, most ridiculous rumor after Tennant had announced he was leaving the show and they had not yet announced Matt Smith. But it was only a ridiculous rumor because the audience had never heard of a Time Lord switching sexes when regenerating. That they don't necessarily have an assigned sex is new information- and means that probably, when the creators of the show feel the audience is ready for it, we will get a female Doctor.
Which actually is amazing information! The potential of such new stories that cannot be told with a male Doctor is immense! I know many fans of the show are not used to the idea and are quick to reject it, but it could be such a marvelous thing!
I loved this episode SO MUCH, it's absolutely one of my favorites, now. I've been a fan of Neil Gaiman for years, and the thought that what this man has written has become so instantly embedded in the mythos of the show just fills me with JOY.
You know the love potion Amortentia in Harry Potter that smells like your favourite smells? Mine would smell like frying bacon, vanilla sugar, and the smell of dust after rain. 🙂
So kids, what would YOUR magic smells be?
Seriously, this episode reminded me of that potion, and I would be interested to know!
Baking bread, oak woodland in a damp spring, hot stone and suncream
Oak woodland in a damp spring AND oak woodland in a damp fall. And campfire smoke. My three.
I love the smell of dust after rain, and I had no idea there was a word for it!!!
Mine would be: old books, petrichor (now that I know the word, I will use it!) and the way a kitchen smells right before the cookies are done.
Ohh awesome question. Although isn't one of the smells implied to be related to your One True Love? Like Harry smells Ginny's perfume, and Hermione smells Ron's hair.
Mine would probably be the smell of spring, just when it's beginning, and the smell of cigarette smoke when it comes out of your nose (I know :/) and.. I'm not sharing my 3rd 🙂
Bacon IS my One True Love.
Lilacs, sauteing onion, and campfire smoke.
The smell of Juniper wood smoke on a crisp clear spring (or fall) morning, sage, homemade apple pie, and books.
The first three are all wonderful smells that can be found around the house I grew up in.
Freshly cut grass, the smell after summer storm (which is petrichor with a bit of ozone added ;)), grilled chicken, little babies (their natural smell, I mean).
The smell after it rains, my Mam's scones baking, sun warmed skin, that smokey smell you get on crisp nights in late autumn, grass and books.
Woodsmoke, horses, bread rising, the woods around where I grew up in spring and fall (no way to describe those smells, but I'd know them anywhere).
Wet earth after the rain, books, and pumpkin pie (because nothing says autumn to me like pumpkin pie).
Gasoline, cold leather, and lilacs. All I've got is lilacs right now.
Old books, freshly cut grass, and green curry. Maybe the smell of just before it rains, too.
Old books, daffodils, autumn leaves, and the ocean on a cold day.
Roses from my garden in the evening (when they smell strongest), the two teddies I've had since I was one, and… someone's suede jacket. That's all I'm saying on the last one.
Is this spoilery in general? I've been avoiding the official sites because they seem to be, but maybe not?
Right now, they're clues that don't make a great deal of sense. They might be spoilery in the bigger picture of things, but we don't really know.
Its kinda like some of the lines Tardis/Idris was saying in this episode ("The only water in the forest is the River"). Im sure the clues are important somehow, but we don't really know yet how they'll factor in.
So, it's basically your own judgement call whether or not you want to look at the hidden messages.
It's also equally possible that these hidden messages mean nothing and that the writers are just screwing with us.
WE JUST DONT KNOW.
I'm actually terrified for if/when that happens. 🙁
I know it's getting a little ridiculous with Rory "dying" so frequently, but I think it's been a lot better played than Rose's "This is the day I died…..oh wait, I just had to go to another universe, but it's ok because I'm going to break through later to see the Doctor" or Rose telling Donna that she was going to die, where "die" means "you're going to forget about the Doctor but have an otherwise fulfilling life." At least with Rory, you get to see other character's reactions, and that's what makes a character's death important to me, even if he comes back 5 seconds later.
With that, this was so completely the worst of Rory's "deaths" and hit me harder than any of the other ones, solely because of Amy's reaction. It's obvious that the House is just messing with her mind, but it's not entirely impossible that there are parts of the TARDIS where time passes differently, so of course she believes it which makes me believe it. I mean, how terrifying is it that he first waited years for her to trust him (before she left with the Doctor) and then 2,000 years while she was in the Pandorica, and now he's waited until it killed him in the TARDIS even though, to her, only a few minutes passed. It's terrifying and heartbreaking and totally had me sold.
Your first paragraph deserves all the upvotes, because THIS.
Except Donna did die. In that parallel world she was in, she died. That was what made it possible for time to rewrite itself to the correct timeline again. I don't disagree with you otherwise, but that's sort of important I think.
Yeah, that's what I thought that death meant.
Although I very much agree on the Rose thing. I felt rather cheated on that one.
Agreed, that was only barely able to be construed as a death since she was listed in the rosters of the dead after Canary Wharf. But still, a cheap way around that point in my view.
Especially since she came back! I would have been ok with "death" meaning being stuck in a parallel world, since everyone in her world would think she was dead, but I feel like her coming back to her first universe cheapened the whole thing.
I always felt (and this could be a totally wrong interpretation) that, in that parallel world when Donna is about to go back in time to die, and she says something along the lines of "I get what you mean, I'm going to die here, but it's ok because this world will be replaced by the Doctor's world and I'll be alive" and Rose gives her that look that, to me, always looked like "nope, you're going to die there, too."
So that's what I meant. I think it was extremely brave and noble (ha ha) that she sacrificed herself in the parallel world, but I always felt like it was more like a dream than not (since it was sort of happening around that fortune teller) and she was meant to die in her original universe, too. Although, she totally would have if the Doctor hadn't wiped the Time Lord out of her mind, but Rose should know better than anyone that the Doctor will go to great lengths to save his companions (especially when he thinks it's his fault).
I didn't even know Neil Gaiman had written this episode until the day it aired, when I happened to be on this very site (like Mark and River, I have a strict NO SPOILERS! policy). The fact that day also happened to be my birthday made me flail like the fangirl I am and proclaim it the best birthday present ever.
And really, that's not even an exaggeration. Everyone else has already pretty much said what I wanted to say, so I won't repeat. I do find it interesting that we weren't supposed to know at first that Idris was in fact the TARDIS. I thought it was really obvious, but I'm also one of those annoying people who always figure out the plot quickly, so there ya go.
Don't really have much else to say, though I do have one or two thoughts I'm curious if anyone else has thought about. So THEORIES ABOUND, I suppose, though it's really just two little ponderings:
One, Rory has said "I'm a nurse" or some variation in the last three episodes. Possibly four, I'd have to rewatch part one of the opener to be sure.
Two, and this is something I've noticed since Amy first started on the show: She always wears red. Sometimes it's really subtle (dark red nail polish in The Beast Below, or a red pendant with her wedding dress) or more overt, with red shirts and such. Maybe it's just a fashion thing, the wardrobe people like seeing Karen Gillan in red, or she likes wearing it, etc. But I still find it interesting, and was curious if anyone else had noticed.
This episode to me was like a punch in the gut. It all felt so genuinely emotional while being at the same time so intricate and fun, and I realized what I had been missing since Moffat took over. Don't get me wrong, I adore Moffat's puzzle-box stories, but there is always something on an emotional level that isn't quite real to me, always a little too fairy-tale, and if there is one thing Gaiman can do, it's write a fairy tale that hits me in the heart. I'm not sure I've been quite emotionally connected to a Moffat story since "The Empty Child" (still maybe my favorite story), and the only episodes I have really been moved by in the past two seasons (as opposed to simply fascinated or scared) are "Vincent and the Doctor" and this one, both non-Moffat episodes. I know other people have very different emotional responses, but I think this goes right up there with "Human Nature" and "Midnight" as episodes that hit me right at the core. I am also now cemented as a huge Matt Smith fan, in a way I haven't been before. (I do admit to being a Gaiman fangirl: Sandman seriously had a bit of an effect on my religious beliefs, which I'm dying to talk about once Mark gets to it.)
Oh Neil Gaiman you gave us such a wonderful episode, thank you! If ever you feel like taking over for Moffat after he gets bored or something, please feel free to do so. Or better yet, co write eps together! No wait, I don't think my fears could handle that…but I want it…oh whatever, just write another Doctor Who ep sometime please?
I loved this ep. At first I wasn't sure what to make of it but upon rewatch it just gets better and better. I would say this will probably be the best episode of the season but the season is still young so I'm not assuming anything.
Yes, i would very much like some more Doctor Who episodes from Neil Gaiman. And since he's obviously a fan, and this episode is getting a good reaction, and Moffat likes him, I'm hoping that this idea is plausible.
Thanks for the rec! "Sandman" is definitely going on my pile of "to-read" stuff 🙂
THIS EPISODE. THIS MOTHER FUCKING EPISODE. WHAT IS THIS. WHAT. THE AWESOME.AND THE SNARK. AND JUST. I CAN'T.
/dead by greatness.
No, but siriusly. This was fucking magnificent. I have nothing to say (other than the things people more awesome than me have already said) but it was an amazing episode. It was great written, true to the characters,and just plain cool. And that is all I have to say (probably because I spent most of the liveblog CASPLOCKING and spamming everyone with my fangirling and I really don't want to do it again XD).
Basically since the show has come back, it's been official fanfiction, just with the BBC's consent and aid in production. That's actually one of the things that most endears the show to me, because you can tell that everyone involved loves it deeply, and wants it to be the best thing ever.
I have no more to say because more awesome people than me have already said it all. Except that I got in too late to watch the episode live, so I obsessively clicked "Refresh" until it became available on iPlayer, watched it as soon as it was, and as soon as it was over I came here and there were already more comments than there were on either post for Curse. And then the site was kind of exploding every time I tried to change pages.
Oh and this:
"That's enough to make anyone dangerous. God knows what it will do to me. Basically, RUN."
and also
"Please… I don't want you to"
and then his little dance at the end when he realises she can still hear him. <3
This has been my theory for since the second episode of this season. I so very much hope we're wrong, but Moffat is an evil, evil man.
Good to hear you've seen the war games it is overly long but damn is it ever fantastic. Damn you Patrick Throughton every single moment from the moment he realises he has to contact and face his own people to the point where he explains why he left and defends his actions before facing the consequences is just utter perfection. It still gives me goosebumps.
Despite the wobbly sets it remains one of the best stories they've ever done and without a doubt the single most important story they've ever done. Ironically episode 8 perhaps the single most important episode in Doctor Who history in which we learn about the Doctor's heritage for the first time ever as he prepares to send a message to his own people, The Timelords is also one of the worst viewed episodes ever with only 3.5 million viewers. It would take until 1989 before another episode did worse.
I adore "The War Games", it's one of my favorite classic stories, and Two is my favorite Classic Doctor. Apparently this makes me a weird Whovian. Whatever, I say. The last story in the serial give me goosebumps too, every time. It's also jammed full of fridge horror (what, exactly, are the Time Lords doing to Two to make him regenerate?).
I love this whole comment to bits, but especially agree with this:
Amy knows that she as a companion is temporary: she says to the Doctor about the TARDIS, "Look at you pair; it's always you and her, isn't it? Long after the rest of us have gone. A boy and his box, off to see the universe." I love that acknowledgement from her, not least because it spares us from the "forever" mentality that crushed Rose and Donna.
Yes. I hated the "forever" mentality from them, in part because it was so anviliciously shoehorned in as a way of making their exits more ~tragic~. The TARDIS is the one that's there when they leave, that was there first, and he's never really alone because he has her, even when they can't physically talk. I think the events of this episode made him realize that a bit better.
Seconded!
Beautiful episode. Beautiful costuming, beautiful acting, beautiful characterization, beautiful action, beautiful emotion, beautiful humor, beautiful everything. I don't care how many times they fake-kill Rory, it still gets me every time. UGH.
Also I was just beside myself with the psychic passcode and Amy showing us her images. SO MUCH LOVE FOREVER.
I know Neil Gaiman's style can grate on some people, but goddamn do I love that man's mind. Literary idols, he is one of mine.
I can't even organize my thoughts on this episode other than to cover what's already been said, so I'll just say DOCTOR!TARDIS OTP FOREVER AND ALWAYS IT IS CANON.
Also WHY DO I NEVER REMEMBER I CAN LOG IN WITH TWITTER.
His style can grate on people? Wha? I love the way he writes, it's so lovely and lyrical and endlessly quotable.
I KNOW, I don't get it, but I've met a few people who think he's too, um, whimsical, I guess? Granted, most of those people are also into really gritty type stories with blunter, harsher prose, so it's obviously a taste difference, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM LESS WRONG.
Possibly my favorite episode of any show ever made ever.
Watched it over 13 times since saturday and every time i am a complete emotional wreck.
"The only water in the forest is the river."
this seems to link back to River Song in The Forest of the Dead and the forest in the byzantium.
but
Amy Pond was also in the byzantium.
I do not understand.
This weeks fan art:
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/33z5rh3.png">
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/1z6d06a.png">
That Ood is adorable.
There has to be a quip here somewhere about Bringing Sexy Back.
because Sexy is fantastic.
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/23k2i5k.jpg">
NEIL. MY BODY WAS NOT READY FOR YOUR EPISODE. I WAS NOT PREPARED. I KNEW IT WOULD BE AMAZING BUT WHY WOULD YOU SMASH MY HEART INTO PIECES LIKE THAT. TARDIS/DOCTOR IS MY FOREVER SHIP, ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE. THAT END SEQUENCE. MY HEART.
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/soss9w.jpg"> AND RORY AND AMY, WHY. ALL THE TEARS. ALL OF THEM. (including some happy ones when Amy's "delight" was her wedding.) STOP KILLING RORY, MOFFAT. IT'S NOT FUNNY. Side note: I saw someone on tumblr with the username "roryisdead-mustbesaturday". Best username ever.)
ALL OF THE SAD AND YET GAIMAN'S TRADEMARK HUMOUR AND AWESOME AND OH MY GOD.
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/302b994.jpg">
Everything is beautiful and everything hurts. :C
I feel like it was already well established that Time Lords could be female. We just didn't know whether there are Time Lords who swith sex (and presumably gender) with regenerations. I do love that it's possible though! (At least for some of them! And I do like the idea mentioned above, that the doctor fails at regenerating, juts like he fails at piloting (still not ginger!))
(The Sarah Jane Chronicles DID tell us (and I don't think this counts as a spoiler, it's not plot relevant at all, nor connected to anything else) that they can switch race, or better: "Look like anything" (Because, while lots of planets may have a north, I have a hard time believeing that Gallifrey had an Africa and an Asia and a Europe etc., although it's been established that WE look like THEM instead of the other way around, and bringing actual genetics into it is just going to break my brain!, so I'll just not. (I just wish we'd have gotten some actual showing instead of telling on this one, but then i love Matt Smith a lot, so I can't regret that he was cast.))
(PS: This is my favourite episode of Doctor Who ever. My Doctor/TARDIS OTP has been vindicated and is even better <3)
I KNOW, RIGHT. Seriously, I made this exact comment.
Trufax: The first thing I read of Gaiman's was Sandman. VOLUME 9. I had no idea wtf was happening, but damn, I was enthralled. It took me years to read the whole thing, mostly reading single volumes at Borders and totally out of order. Eventually I collected them all and even though I keep reading them again, I'm still never prepared.
Ha ha! That's totally how I read Sandman too! The Borders near me never had all of them in stock at any time when I had actual money for them (or giftcards as I was pooooor) and I would go to all three of them to search for new ones 🙁 But I like knowing that I'm not the only one who read them like this! Woo Hoo
Yeah, I was super poor as well. The way I acquired them was mostly haunting ebay and grabbing the trade paperbacks for $4 or $5 when noone else bid on them. So I have a very mismatched collection, but at least it's complete….and then they released Absolute Sandman, and I have nowhere near enough for it. ;_;
Volume 9? Way to spoil yourself! Ha. I don't even remember what the first Sandman I read was, only that it was SUPER AWESOME and I wanted more.
I didn't realize it was Volume 9 at the time. I went in to school that day and my friend was like "You like comics, right? My mom doesn't want this one anymore, here, you can have it." So I just started reading. Honestly I didn't even quite understand what had happened at the end, but I knew I wanted to read more.
(It might have been for the best anyway; at 15 I don't know if I would have been able to deal with the horror-heavy Vol 1.)
Yeah, I don't want to say too much since Mark is going to read Sandman eventually, but I think people should start with issue #8 (gur fbhaq bs ure jvatf), and then go back and read the rest of volume 1. He doesn't really find his voice until that one.
Suranne Jones, aka Karen off of Corrie, was perfect in this. Neil Gaiman I love you.
forgot to mention in my first post but rory has said almost every episode this series now that "he's a nurse"… hmm perhaps it becomes important later on.
Didn't we already know that he's a nurse? He was working as a nurse in the coma ward at the hospital when we first saw him in the 5th season premiere episode "The Eleventh Hour'. I don't get why everyone is acting so surprised that he called himself such in this episode.
I think Inseriousity is pointing out the repetition, not just the fact that we know he's a nurse.
Dunno, I thought it was just an attempt to reemphasize the fact that Rory's life does not revolve around Amy wholly. Not the most graceful one, considered in itself — show don't tell, right? — but maybe what it's actually showing is Rory's attempt to emphasize to himself that his life doesn't revolve around Amy, and that'll be some sort of intercharacter conflict.
…does this count as abundant theorizing.
I've noticed this too. At least once for the two-parter, once in Curse, and then in this episode, Rory has said the exact words "I'm a nurse." Which is like – you'd think it wouldn't be so important to emphasize ALL THE TIME. He could just as easily say "I know what I'm doing" or something – idk. Weird. Guess we'll see if this goes anywhere or if it's a crazy red herring.
Maybe it refers to both? Wikipedia has no clues.
If I may, a short and sweet bit of appreciation for Auntie, Uncle and Nephew (before he went evil of course). I fell in love with those three and their quirky little.. personalities. I don't really consider any of them evil.. I have a feeling they were very influenced by the House and possibly may have been companions to a Time Lord. I think they were just unfortunate victiims and their minds were so badly damaged and repaired over the years that they really had no choice but to 'worship' The House as their life giver.
Such a gorgeous and touching episode. Though after the first viewing i did feel a bit…….underwhelmed. Over-hyped maybe? IDK. I've watched it three times so far and i've kinda fallen in love with it!
My brain's not working that well right now, so here's a list of the things i liked, and a few i didn't.
Likes:
Suranne Jones was fantastic! Really believeable acting and great chemistry with Matt Smith.
The bit with Amy and Rory on their own was so disturbing and horrifying! I knew it wasn't real and that House was messing with them for shits and giggles, but it still filled me with fear. Rory should never be that angry again. Ever. And the words written on the wall, in what i'm assuming was Rory's blood, DO NOT WANT TYVM. Watching Karen act out Amy mourning her husband AGAIN makes my tummy hurt. LEAVE THE PONDS ALONE GAIMAN/MOFF/THE UNIVERSE. BACK AWAY FROM MY PONDS BIATCHES.
Matt Smith's chin wobble makes me want to hug him, and stroke his hair, and tell him that everything's going to be okay, and then make him a cup of tea. Tea makes everything better.
The efects were incredible! The asteroid (for once) actually looked like an alien landscape instead of a quarry in Wales. When i get the DVD i am so going to pause the episode and look at all the junk, and the crashed spaceships, in the background (i have no life, and am easily pleased).
Aunt and Uncle were so creepy and weird and gross! Both the actors did a great job.
Rory being the pretty one XD
Amy's "delight" being the day she married Rory. HA! Suck on that eleven/Amy shippers! Amy/Rory FTW.
Yay for nine/ten's TARDIS! I was expecting it to feel weird that eleven was in someone elses TARDIS (i consider the coral TARDIS to be nines, because it suits his more subtle personality), but it felt completley normal. The Doctor in the TARIDIS, the way it's always been and always will be. (Though i have this horrible feeling that the Moff will split the Doctor and the TARDIS up in some horrific way just to fuck with us all.)
I loved seeing a little more of the TARDIS even if it was just some corridors. I WANT MOAR TARDIS INTERIORS.
I love that Rory/Arthur's getting a lot more to do in this series, i heart him so much.
So many great lines, "oh, biting's excellent! It's like kissing, only there's a winner!" being my favourite. XD
My favourite part was definitely the end when Idris burns up. I was so NOT crying…….there was some condensation on my face……..honest. The light that spread through the TARDIS was so beautiful and so was Idris and the Doctor's goodbye/hello. This episode has pushed my Doctor/TARDIS shipping into overdrive!
Dislikes:
The writing and Matt and Suranne's talking was so fast that i missed a lot of the lines the first time and was slightly confused.
The Ood. Now i love an Ood, but i wasn't sure why the hell he was there, if he'd been taken out completely it wouldn't have made any difference.
When the Doctor and Idris were surfing their created TARDIS towards the real one i wasn't sure where all that was happening, were they inside House/the asteroid or had House flung the real TARDIS into space and the Doctor and Idris were chasing after it. It wasn't very clear to me.
A few shots of the asteroid/House in space would have been good, but maybe the budget had ran out :/
After the episode i had some very disturbing images going through my brain, of the Doctor doing naughty things the TARDIS, i now feel unlcean.
Next weeks episode: Really not sure how to feel about it….. for the fist time i'm not even remotely excited. I blame Fear her.
Amy's "delight" being the day she married Rory. HA! Suck on that eleven/Amy shippers! Amy/Rory FTW.
Oh, you'd be surprised. Eleven/Amy shippers can sail their ship all they want to- I just find it kind of mind-boggling though when I see someone say that her 'delight' is from the wedding because it's when she brought the Doctor back into existence.
1. I think that part of her laughing is before she even brought him back.
2. It is possible to include Rory, and still have Eleven/Amy happen. It's called a poly-relationship.
3. Seriously. Rory is important to Amy. She hasn't been pretty much breaking down for nothing whenever he's kicked the bucket/come close to dying.
4. Again- threesomes could solve sooooo many shipping issues.
/rant
OMG GUYS, THE TARDIS IS IN A HUMAN BODY AND ACTUALLY CONVERSING WITH THE DOCTOR, AND THERE’S SO MUCH BACKSTORY, AND I JUST WANT TO HUG HER AND WE’RE SEEING HER CORRIDORS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE NEW SERIES AND GOD, MY LITTLE FANGIRL BRAIN CAN’T TAKE IT ANYMORE
*deep breaths*
Okay, okay, I’m sorry, I know I’m not being very coherent, but so many amazing things happened in this episode. Basically, this was the awe I felt the whole time;
<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/Firewire16/Idris-defeats-House.gif">
Going in, I had certain expectations, despite not being familiar with Gaiman’s work. I figured this would be creepy. I figured we wouldn’t actually find any Time Lords, and if we did, they’d either be promptly killed off, or be someone like Romana or Susan. So I was of course excited over who would appear in Idris….and when she started vworping I was like; “Seriously? You’re giving the TARDIS a human body? AWESOME.”
I mean, really, this plot was amazing. Let’s start with Amy and Rory. I had to roll my eyes at the Doctor getting them out of the way- come on, Doc, you’re always telling them not to wander off, making them do so is just going to make bad things happen. It’s in their plot that we finally get to see more of the TARDIS, and as much as I was fangirling over that, I especially loved how we got to look more at Rory’s feelings of abandonment. Last season we obviously saw Amy frustrated with her parents, her aunt and her Doctor, who all left her, but she found love in a guy who would stay by her for 2,000 years. As always, I couldn’t help but think, ‘poor Rory’. Amy’s never shown quite the amount of dedication to him as he has to her, and it has to hurt….we got to see a bit of that, and also see Amy reacting in a genuinely heartbroken way to that revelation.
Oh, and Rory died. Again. The writers are just messing with us now.
Now, I’m not sure how to feel about the way the Doctor/TARDIS relationship was handled. On one hand, it’s very much the way I imagined it, but also a little bit different…I always feel that the Doctor and his ship do communicate, but not be outright telepathic thoughts, but more like feelings, the way Amy uses in the episode. Its different from an actual conversation, of course, so I can understand them revelling in that experience, but it definitely doesn’t feel like they were really meeting for the first time. This is the TARDIS, who took the Doctor to safety around the time of his very first regeneration, who always takes him where people are in danger, who’s stayed with him for centuries.
I do wish we’d seen a little bit more respect or protective feelings towards the companions. It was cute how she called them strays, and it does make sense that she wouldn’t know them by name- after all, she communicates by feelings and emotions, not words- but still. Then again, there was a lot to fit in 45 minutes, so I can’t be too disappointed, and on the whole I’m very glad that we’ve really gotten to show the TARDIS having a mind of her own in a way which is more explicit.
I mean- there really, really was a lot in this episode. The amazing ambiance of the junk yard (and it similarities to An Unearthly Child), the incredibly creepy portrayal of Uncle and Aunty, the Doctor’s grief at learning that yet again, he’s still the Last of the Time Lords, The TARDIS growing accustomed to being in Idris’ body, all the character interactions…I mean, woah. So much. Particuarly fun/interesting moments to me were;
-“Kissing. It’s like biting except there’s a winner.” OH, TARDIS.
– “My other jacket.” “You have two of those?” Oh, good, so the Doctor does change occasionally.
– Time Lords can change their gender. Or rather, could. Which I suppose does leave all us female fans with the slim hope of one day playing the Doctor. (Or the Master. Or maybe a male Romana.)
– The TARDIS thinking her name was sexy was the most wonderfully sweet and hilarious and awkward thing, all at the same time.
– I really love the way Gaiman portrayed the TARDIS’s psychic connect as working. It’s very beautiful, and I think it gives a real sense of the type of relationship the TARDIS has had with all her inhabitants.
– Also, I see our Doctor has been a little bit more forthcoming to Amy and Rory than companions past. He’s already told them about the Time War and regeneration? Good planning, Doc. Still, I rather hope whatever companion he’s with when regeneration occurs doesn’t know, because I enjoy the little freak out they undergo. It reminds me of the fandom.
– “My thief.” <3
– Okay, yeah, I’m still laughing at all the Doctor/TARDIS shipping. Seriously, this is one of the last pairings I thought would get support in cannon besides the occasional offhand comment. I feel so redeemed.
– I can’t help but wonder, but how much of the TARDIS’s personality in this portrayal was controlled by her body? I don’t mean from a real world standpoint, but rather the whole brain affects the body thing.
– Rory in tears after being left for another 2,000 years was one of the most heart breaking things I’ve ever seen.
– Also, I'd recommend the confidential for this one, even if you don't usually watch it. Along with wonderful behind the scenes stuff you have Niel Gaiman reading out the script in one of the most poetic ways I've ever seen, and I'm literally restraining myself from tracking down the Sandman and reading it right now.
That is not an impulse to be restrained! 😀 By all means, find and read it!
– “My other jacket.” “You have two of those?” Oh, good, so the Doctor does change occasionally.
Wasn't he lying? Thus why they couldn't find it…
"Look at my girl. Look at her go!" Oh I loved that line..
Unorganized Thoughts:
LOVE the fast, funny, incredibly heartbreaking dialogue.
-"did you wish really hard?"
-"I don't know what to do! Thats a new feeling!" SLAP hehehe.
What is Tim Burton doing in my Gaiman episode?
Bunkbeds!
as mentioned in an earlier post of mine, I think this episode would have been better suited as a RTD/Tennant episode maybe after Rose though…the Doctor did seem to keep falling in love (but not with you..sorry Martha)
if we're going to see more of the TARDIS interior, can we ACTUALLY see the TARDIS interior and not corridor after corridor? I know there were budget limitations but it seems like a lost opportunity
this episode was trying to be scarier than it actually ended up being. Amy and Rory running around in the TARDIS? "DIE AMY"? dead Rory (AGAIN! don't get me started)? we needed more time with the companions in peril to build up the fear..it just never came for me.
in my head-canon: the Doctor loves the TARDIS, but its a little weird for him to be IN love with the TARDIS.
Bunkbeds! (sorry, it needs to be said again :D)
Crimson, Eleven, Delight, dirt after Rain: aw, just what a beautiful scene.
Rory as the pretty one! ha! I do love you Idris..is it possible that as the TARDIS left the actually TARDIS she traveled through Helena Bonham Carter before landing in Idris? just a thought…
I had other thoughts…but they're gone now
and one for the road: BUNKBEDS!
The Doctor may like a nice bunk bed but i don't, i fell out of one once and hit my head on a rocking horse. Bunk beds are dangerous. And evil. And so are rocking horses.
Yes, i am a member of the fun police.
Also: bunk beds for a newlywed couple? Really, Eleven? I get the impression that he really doesn't get why this might be a problem. Oh Eleven, never change (except of course he inevitably will, dammit).
Falling out of bunkbeds is an important part of childhood. It made me who I am today.
Hello my name is Shiyiya and I enjoy making silly photomanips, HAVE A PRESENT.
<img src="http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p146/IvyElfMaid/th_houseeatstardis.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket" >
<img src=http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/DanaanMI/Gifs/Donnayayy.gif>
I LOVE YOU.
(It appears the clickthrough link broke, so link to full-size version here.)
Cissexism makes me not very hopeful for a nuanced treatment of sex/gender issues in any mainstream TV show.
Examples? I'm not seeing anything particularly problematic with this episode. Especially as it's the one that made changing sex at regeneration canon, which suggests that Time Lords have a fairly fluid gender identity. That's hardly cissexism.
Changing sex doesn't mean changing gender.
That is conflation of sex and gender, which is cissexist.
The episode avoid it by not going into details, but people in general are pretty secure in their ignorance.
That's not the episode doing it, that's people flailing for words to describe it talking about the show. And we *don't* know whether they change sex, change sex and gender, or are agender or genderfluid or genderqueer the whole time or what. Which…. makes it hard to talk about it because you're talking about multiple possibilities of what could be happening at once.
I never said the episode did anything. In fact, you'll note that I specifically said "the episode avoids it" in the post you replied to.
Cissexism makes me not very hopeful for a nuanced treatment of sex/gender issues in any mainstream TV show.
Looks like talking about the episode to me. Mark Watches is not a mainstream tv show.
And "the episode avoids it" looks like not talking about the episode to me. Explicitly.
I'm disappointed in MW; sexism and racism are seen to, but it seems that defensive dogpiling against discussion of trans issues is acceptable.
Two people being confused about what you're objecting to because of unclear phrasing does not a dogpile make.
I'm quite aware of the difference between sex and gender. However, I still don't take your point. You're saying that mentioning that a person's gender identity agrees with their biological sex is cissexist? That's an extremist view, and one I must disagree with.
Also, the fact that they don't go into details makes it rather silly to immediately assume prejudice. All the Doctor said was that the Corsair was a woman a few times. He doesn't go into exactly what that means. For all we know, he meant that the Corsair was physically male but had a female gender identity and thus was considered by herself and others to be a woman. Sure, maybe that's stretching it a bit, but there's absolutely nothing to say that that's not what he meant. And do you really expect the plot to grind to a halt for the Doctor to give an exposition of precisely what he meant by "woman"?
To me, that offhand comment makes it seem that for Time Lords, gender identity is fluid, and in Time Lord society (however flawed it may have been in other ways), that was accepted and normal. Normalizing non-static gender identity is pretty damn laudable, in my opinion.
Lastly, I'll thank you not to downvote me because I don't agree with your opinion. It's rather petty, and frowned upon hereabouts.
No. I am saying that you used "sex" and "gender" interchangeably, which many fans have been doing, and that assuming that gender identity agrees with assigned sex is cissexist.
Again, please refer to the point where I said that the episode avoids it by not going into detail.
I downvote cis privilege denial because this is something I live with every day and I am fucking sick of it, thank you.
I did use the word "sex" perhaps wrongly, now that I re-read my initial comment. "Gender" would have been the more accurate term. I do not, however, appreciate your accusing me of privilege denial. I merely misunderstood your objection (I'm still not sure if you have an objection to the actual episode, or if you just don't like how people are discussing it), and I see that I used careless language.
I'm sorry you have to live with cissexism (as a cis woman I know I can't fully understand how much that sucks). But cussing out and metaphorically jumping peoples' throats (people who, like me, are in fact sympathetic to your point of view) isn't a great way to make others understand you. If you'd just pointed out that I'd carelessly misused a word rather than immediately attacking me for perceived prejudice, we'd probably both be less pissed off right now.
Tone argument is old music, mate.
Well, I'm sorry we can't discuss this like reasonable people.
WHAT THE FLYING FUCK TO EVERYONE WHO DOWNVOTED THIS.
fuck you all. what the fuck. Please read rule #4 on the site rules, which specifically states that if someone calls you out, it says:
Do NOT turn it into a personal attack about how people are too “sensitive” or “politically correct.”
Now, I need to update that to explicitly state that dropping this ridiculous tone argument bullshit counts as well, but this is EXACTLY what you did here, Hypatia. THIS IS AVIT'S LIFE. THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE POLITE TO DEFEND THEIR VERY EXISTENCE.
I will add more to this to tomorrow's Avatar post to further define this, as my brain is a jumbled mess from nearly 14 hours of working, but I want to make this clear: this privilege-denying, tone-argument bullshit is not allowed here. Ever.
And seriously, downvoting someone you DISAGREE WITH? Jesus christ. NO. GO AWAY.
Is it possibly worth trying to find a way to remove the downvote button, but keep the upvote?
'Cause its only real purpose is as a shorthand for "um. about that. no," which – as it's frowned upon – is just an accident waiting to happen.
Already wrote to IntenseDebate in a glory of sleep deprivation last night, so hopefully I'll find out today if anything will come of it. :/
Well, holy shit, look at that. Bless IntenseDebate forever.
I agree with Hypatia. In general, I don't really see cissexism, but only because most people don't seem to know what transgenderism is, and what they do know if full of wrong information. This particular episode seemed one of the less biased episodes, if only because it said that Time Lords can be female to, and they have no problem with changing gender.
Sex? Or gender?
And ignorance excuses nothing.
The comment in the episode was too brief for me to tell, but from the sound of it, sex and gender. It would be something more interesting to look into, of course- one sentence really doesn’t tell us how Time Lord society viewed it.
And yes, I know that ignorance isn’t an excuse, and it is the main enabling factor for prejudice and discrimination. At the same time, I cannot blame someone who’s never even heard of transgenderism for not understanding how to treat it well. I can very easily blame someone for making something that’s racist or sexist, but the issue of transgenderism is one that most people don’t even know is an issue- thus I find that it isn’t so much that the media doesn’t handle the concept badly, but that they don’t even handle the concept at all. I hope I’m being coherent here, but I suppose what I’m saying is that it isn’t so much that there’s a negative portrayal of transpeople in media, but no portrayal, and I thought the mention of it in the episode was brief but positive.
It would be interesting, wouldn't it? After all, we've seen that personality can change seemingly very wildly between regenerations, and even though DW makes its Time Lords pretty humanized, it's always possible that Gallifreyan conceptions of gender and sex are very different from human ones.
Of course, I doubt it's something writers would spend a lot of time on 😛 Which means it's fertile fic territory…
Yes, you're right, unless we get a female Doctor in the show, there's not really going to me much of a chance. I would like to look into it more. Who knows, the Time Lords are a completely different species, and for them gender and sex might be no different than personality and height change between regenerations.
I've always rather wished that science fiction looked into the concept of gender more, especially in terms of other species. Almost all fictional species have two sexes (and usually two correlating genders). It would be interesting to see something that had three genders, or two sexes but no genders, or something completely different entirely.
To be fair to Doctor Who, there are several episodes in RTD's era where a group of people will be greeted in a way that acknowledges non-binary gender identities eg the Hostess in 'Midnight' always addresses the passengers "Ladies, gentleman and variations thereupon".
I definitely like the point you made about how Amy's relationship and abandonment issues changed slightly. Perhaps its partly because she's now also lived through a universe where she had parents, and also a good deal to the character growth, but here we saw her absolutely traumatised by the thought of how she's treated Rory.
Also, I remember when I saw bits of this episode, both in the series trailer and its own personal 'Next Time' I was leery. I mean, are they going to make up some wife for him? Reveal River Song? Have his mother? It all looked like it could fail, and I was really nervous when we saw that girl being so personal in the trailers. But having her be the TARDIS made it all better and it fit in place with a snap.
Nobody has made a "Thief? Where's my thief? THIEEEEEF!?" gif yet? 🙁
Right, OK, late to the party. I'm really just going to condense ally my comments that I wrote down while watching the episode:
I really, really want to know what the Doctor was talking about when he mentioned a robot king except that it was the real king and luckily they managed to reattach the head. I really want to know. But when I saw the hypercube, the first thing I thought was "OMG COMPANION CUBE, THE CAKE IS A LIE" which turned out to be sort of true because the news it brought was a lie. But I was also really amazed that the symbol for The Corsair (I'm sure someone's explained it by now, but Time Lords have names they choose to take on) was the Ouroboros, the snake that eats itself and I wondered if the symbolism meant anything.
I know that Idris became the TARDIS, but I wondered how House got other people to take on the souls of other TARDIS's to kill their Time Lords. What did he do with them, really, beyond repairing Auntie and Uncle? It didn't look like he ever had to repair Nephew…. I need to rewatch. But the universe outside the universe made me thing of the Restaurant at the End of the Universe and OMG MARK PLEASE READ THE HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE SERIES PLEASE. Because once I noticed that House was a junkyard I thought of two things- that it looked like that one scene in the Labyrinth and then I wondered if lost pens all go there.
OK, right then. When Idris reveals herself to be the TARDIS (which I already knew because it was so obvious but really really sweet) I just squealed at how she kept calling the Doctor "my thief", even though she was saying she stole him!! But really it solidified the third of my three OTPs in Doctor Who, which is DOCTOR/TARDIS (the other two being Rory/Amy and Ian/Barbara).
The TARDIS graveyard though…
I'm thinking that all of my sisters are dead, that they were devoured. And that we are looking at their corpses.
I dearly wanted to punch the Doctor in the face, for looking excited at the thought of utilizing the parts of the dead TARDISes and not noticing the obvious heartbreak of our TARDIS. I still kind of want to punch him in the face for it.
Also, ancient Rory?!?! WHAT THE FUCK GAIMAN?! WHAT LIVES IN YOUR BRAIN?! Fucking nightmare fuel. Rory and Amy trying to entertain House long enough for the Doctor to save them… it was really terrifying, especially when House first invaded the TARDIS and we hear the Cloister Bell ringing. I started screaming, I'm not gonna lie, "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD THE CLOISTER BELL OH MY GOOOOOOOOD."
When the TARDIS is dying, I noticed how even though House was still going to kill them all, Rory immediately turns and attends to her, like the proper nurse he is. A huge swell of love and delight formed for him and he is really close to unseating Ian Chesterton as my favorite companion.
The end though… ALL THE TEARS. "Hello Doctor. It's so very nice to meet you."
DON'T GO CAN'T YOU BE WITH US FOREVER?!?!?! *collapses into a puddle of tears and anguish*
But then that line she whispers to Rory… "The only water in the forest is river."
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!
This episode made me so happy! I love it when Doctor Who makes me giddy! Okay, so here's a bunch of stuff I found on tumblr yesterday:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/JSMf9.png" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/LfOdJ.gif" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/vTZRZ.gif" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" />
I apologise if this has already been posted. I just checked my YouTube subscription and found this, it is so god damn beautiful i had to share with you all.
http://youtu.be/xPStwHWkPvE
<3 <3
"Doctor Who is about a mad man and a blue box that is bigger on the inside, and this is the first time we’ve seen that blue box as a living thing."
What about Bad Wolf?
On a cursory look through comments seeing if anyone talked about Rose I only found one person recalling her role as Bad Wolf and thinking that was the TARDIS speaking through her.
Am I really the only one who's always thought that was the case? That Bad Wolf was Rose and the TARDIS sort of possessing her basically?
That's what I've thought, too.
And although we've never seen the TARDIS taking her own body before (I thought the Bad Wolf was a combination of Rose and Sexy), we've seen her drive herself before. When the first Doctor regenerated she controlled herself, and I believe she locked Donna in at one point so the DoctorDonna could be formed.
Yeah, I agree, a combination of Rose and the TARDIS. It was just striking to me because that was one of the first things I thought about when we met Idris!Sexy, and "My Doctor" just felt so the same as it did then that I felt very confirmed in that belief, lol.
I always thought that Bad Wolf was a combination of Rose and the Tardis.
this is the first time we've seen the Tardis alone being able to speak.
Nope! That's what I always thought– that the TARDIS matrix jumped into Rose (or at least a piece of it). Especially with the "MY Doctor" line. Although Rose clearly still had some control, because I don't think the TARDIS would have tried to resurrect Jack.
You’re probably right. Although if Rory is the pretty one I have to wonder what she called Jack. Also makes me wonder what perhaps she could have seen perhaps in the future with him as face of boe. That might have been so important that she created him.
I was sorry the Doctor had to get rid of the Tardis swimming pool. We never even got to see it!
He can just build a new, better pool.
This is my new favorite (new) Doctor Who episode.
But what I find creepy is Idris!TARDIS' line about the corpses of her dead sisters. What the Doctor did to make the makeshift TARDIS… to his TARDIS, that exactly like what the House was doing, wasn't it? Stitching together old parts from corpses to make something new and working.
The difference here is that the TARDISes were already dead, as opposed to House's luring time lords there and killing them.
Though it is a little frankensteinian.
What might work was if they got a rather andro/Tom Boy Doctor for the first go. Someone who wasn't obviously feminine (nothing wrong with girls who are feminine, don't get me wrong, I just feel that its one of the only ways it could work with minimum wank).
This is Who fandom, there will ALWAYS be wank.
So, is anyone else ECSTATIC BEYOND WORDS for the fanfiction this will soon produce?
"Are Time Lords always dudes? NO. Oh god, is there now a possibility that there could be a woman as a Time Lord? COULD YOU IMAGINE ALL THE SHITTY BACKLASH FROM THE FANDOM."
Umm…
Romana?
I DIDN'T KNOW 🙁
omg i am the worst doctor who fan of all time
Don't worry, you would've figured it out in… due time.
(please excuse the time-lord pun)
YOU ARE THE BEST DOCTOR WHO FAN OF ALL TIME, AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT.
There's way too much Who-knowledge for anybody to know all of it, I just assumed you knew, or else I wouldn't have pointed it out!