In the seventh episode of the fifth series of Doctor Who, Amy, Rory, and the Doctor are stuck between two apparent dream worlds. One is real, the other was created, but they must choose which world to die in order to wake up. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
If you needed any sort of justification or further elaboration on why the spoiler policy is so strict on Mark Watches, I can use “Amy’s Choice†to explain that. I like to go into shows and their episodes completely ignorant, as foolishly unknowing as possible. Sometimes, that task is a lot easier said than done, and with the proliferation of Doctor Who all over Tumblr, that task is darn near impossible. I don’t read episode titles. I don’t read those little summaries beforehand. I turn off the episode before the “NEXT TIME†sequence can play. I allow myself not a single hint towards the future. And why do I torture myself so?
Because for the first few minutes of “Amy’s Choice,†my brain was exploding everywhere. HOW ARE THEY FIVE YEARS IN THE FUTURE. WHY IS AMY PREGNANT. WHAT THE FUCK IS ON RORY’S HEAD. AND DID THIS SHOW JUST CONFIRM THAT THESE TWO SURVIVE THEIR TRIP WITH THE DOCTOR.
That’s the beauty of watching television unspoiled. It’s really, really, really fun and entertaining for me, and then I get to impart that energy in my reviews. It allows me to experience this show in a unique way, free from as many influences as possible in regards to fandom opinions, trailers, or even the slightest of spoilers. That’s not to say that my viewing technique makes the experience any better for anyone else, but it works for me. That’s all I really care about.
With “Amy’s Choice,†until the gist of the show is revealed, I was left scratching my head at the strangeness of it all. Actually, this entire episode is really bizarre, but Simon Nye makes it work quite well. If you accept that this episode deals with dreams and Amy’s fake pregnant stomach and Rory’s awful wig are part of that dream logic, I think that this is one of the most entertaining Doctor Who episodes of the new season. By thrusting the characters into such a surreal situation, Nye very naturally injects a sense of urgency into the plot for the entirety of the show.
(Also, just for the record, it was nearly impossible for me to watch this episode and not scream YOU JUST GOT INCEPTION’D every time they switched universes. I kind of can’t think of that movie when dealing with dreams anymore.)
The first time they switched over, ending up in the TARDIS, it seemed sensical that that world had to be the real one, but when the Dream Lord arrives (AND I TOTALLY FLIPPED MY SHIT BECAUSE I FUCKING LOVE TOBY JONES I MEAN HOW COULD YOU NOT), that certainty became overwhelmed with doubt. Toby Jones so perfectly sells this character, especially the pervasive sarcasm and mockery that the Dream Lord seems to operate under. Who is he and why does he hate the Doctor so much? I love that this is never answered because it shifts the focus away from an explanation and moreso to the experience. How can you tell a dream is a dream when you’re the Doctor? A star that burns freezing cold? Aliens that can turn you to the dust? “Amy’s Choice†makes a great point about the absurdist nature of the Doctor, but for Amy, that’s not what’s important to her. What this episode also does extremely well is build that emotional story for her, to suggest that the disaster is not as important as the people she cares about in her life. Even more so than “The Vampires of Venice,†I feel that “Amy’s Choice†is a far better experience for Rory and Amy to solidify their relationship.
I also don’t want to do a typical chronological narrative for this review because it’s hard to once you know the final endgame. But I do want to spend a moment talking about the scene where Amy returns to the Leadworth-reality after having spent time alone with the Dream Lord. I thought the Dream Lord was a bit too obvious when he insisted that Amy be the one to decide in which reality she was going to let everyone die. I sort of figured that the Leadworth-reality was too weird to be true. What I didn’t expect is the scene where Amy starts to go into labor. Well…ok, it had been foreshadowed pretty blatantly throughout “Amy’s Choice,†but the actual logistics of it were unexpected. When Rory sacrifices himself as the Eknodine try to break into the upstairs bedroom, I thought we’d get some epic goodbye from him and then they’d all wake up or something. BUT NO. His death is quick and shocking and brutal and he DISINTEGRATES RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DOCTOR AND AMY.
Again, seriously, I’ve become fascinated with Karen Gillan’s and Matt Smith’s faces, not just because they are so unbelievably nice to look at, but because they both are so skillful at small, subtle changes in facial expressions. Watch this scene again and pay attention to Amy’s reaction to Rory’s death versus the Doctor’s. The Doctor has pure fear and disbelief on his face, but Amy shuts down. She can’t believe it. She actually begs the Doctor to fix Rory, but he can’t do it.
I don’t believe Amy needed to lose Rory to know she couldn’t live without him, but it’s the manifestation of that fear. So she chooses to accept that the Leadworth-reality isn’t real solely because it would increase her chance of seeing Rory again. Can you hear my heart swooning.
The end of this episode is just……what. Ok, so, as I understand it, the Dream Lord was created by the Doctor, a by-product of psychic pollen, and is a manifestation of his “darker†side. I kind of don’t understand this at all, especially since the twist ending is so quickly dealt and then resolved, but I’m reluctant to ask anything more about this. When the Doctor sees the reflection of the Dream Lord in the dashboard of the TARDIS, I get the feeling we’ll see him again, so maybe this “manifestation†will be explained better then.
THOUGHTS
- So is there a trope that’s the polar opposite of the “Kids Are Really Creepy†trope? Because I think this episode did that. I’m still not sure why the Eknodine chose to hide in the elderly, though. No one would suspect?
- Wait, so was the Doctor vegetarian at some point? The Dream Lord seemed to hint at that.
- “Can we not do the running thing?â€
- “You threw the manual in a supernova….why?†“Because I disagreed with it.â€
- “I’d blush if I had a blood supply, or a real face.
- “That’s why I got pregnant, so I don’t have to see them doing Oklahoma.â€
- “Ice can burn. Sofas can read. It’s a big universe.â€
Going to keep my feelings short and sweet. This episode is fantastic.
Im not Amy Pond's biggest fan, I mentioned in a comment on someone's comment the other day that most of the time Im indifferent towards her, and when Im not indifferent then I generally dont like her. 'Amy's Choice' is the exception to that rule. I love Amy in this episode, I especially love the scene when Rory dies and she wont accept it. I think Karen really knocked it out of the park.
The story is amazing and I didnt see the end coming, although it seemed really obvious as soon as it was revealed. I did think the explanation was a tad rushed and I didnt totally understand it first time through, but the rest of the episode is good enough to make up for that and after a rewatch then I understood it much better.
Overrall 'Amy's Choice' is my second favourite episode of this series, I think it's just brilliant.
Great great episode this, fun and scary (seriously, how can BIRD SONG be nightmare fuel?) and stranger than most mainstream sci-fi ever dares to be, let alone a family show. Great acting performance all round too with a great guest bad guy in the guise of the Dream Lord. Toby Jones plays him wonderfully and really does come across as a dark version of the Doctor without giving the game away too early in the story. The TARDIS crew were on top form too with some genuinely laugh out loud moments in there (the ongoing Pregnant jokes in particular, Amy gives gooooood death glare) but never overwhelming the tense nature of the episode. It’s also a really neat way to develop Amy and Rory (the 11th Doctor seems to be a major Shipper on Deck thus far…) and you really can start to see why they could work very well together once / if they move a bit closer together in terms of mental approach. I also love that it’s Rory and The Doctor’s dreams, not Amy’s… says a lot right there about her mental approach. She didn’t grow up, she lost that little bit of childhood we keep with us that lets us imagine things can be better than they are. And that’s a really bad way of putting it, sorry, hopefully it sorta makes sense.
One thing I do want to bring up though was something I touched on yesterday but wanted to come back to as this is a much better example. Compared to previous series, the current occupants of the TARDIS do an incredible amount of non-verbal acting. Seriously, you could watch large chunks of this episode with the sound off and still get the motivations of the characters, fantastic stuff. The example I wanted to draw particular attention to is the always wonderful Karen Gilan in the final TARDIS scene when she’s having to explain to Rory just why and how she picked the ‘right’ dream. Watch that scene back and focus on Amy, her body language is totally, completely different to normal. Every single issue and fear of being abandoned by those she loves comes to the surface and in what should be a triumphant moment for her she’s really withdrawn, hunched up almost (well, as hunched up as Karen can get anyway, tad tricky when you’re nine feet tall) and you can see she’s genuinely worried about Rory’s response. Compare it to her staring death in the face with the Poncho Boys, it’s almost a totally different person. Wonderful bit of acting from Karen and just one example of that sort of thing from everyone involved in the show so far this series.
And that, really, is why I love Series Fnarg more than the RTD era – it rewards rewatching to a far greater extent trading the bombast and teenage romance (all big shouty exclamations of love) for something a bit more subtle, a bit more real and a bit more… dare I say… grown up. Certainly Amy and Rory here feel FAR more like a real life couple, issues and all, than any other couple we’ve seen on New Who.
Oh man, yes to everything about Amy and Karen. She was so great here; it was wonderful seeing another facet of Amy's character come out in her face and body language. Brilliantly done. I love Amy completely after this episode, and Rory and the Doctor were no slouches themselves. Definitely look forward to watching this one again.
So much this, especially the last two paragraphs. Couldn't agree more.
Apart from some great body-language. They've also got great timing. So really they've got a great cast here.
I think that the non-verbal acting is what makes me adore these three more than any other Doctor and Co.
This, this, this! Especially the last paragraph. Well said.
The non-verbal acting in this season is beyond amazing. I love Ten, and I think Tennant is a brilliant actor, but he has one particular angry face that never stopped making me laugh….not so much in this season. When Amy wakes up in the freezing TARDIS and watches Rory wake and then slowly leans in to hug him totally shatters my heart. Just the look on her face.
(PS – Finally looked up why you call it "Series Fnarg" and I think that's hilarious.)
Yea, I hadn't heard that until now. Cute. Series Fnarg.
I agree about what you say about the relationships. Everything about Rory and Amy seem real. Not perfect, like some Disney-esque romance; there's some definite flaws. Amy may not (vocally) appreciate her fiance enough, and Rory may be too distrusting of her. But all real relationships have problems, and this series develops that, making them, at least in my opinion, the most genuine couple in Nu-Who so far.
So Agreed with this whole comment. The non-verbal acting is just a joy to watch, and is so rewarding on rewatch. The chemistry of the cast is just so fun. This different approach to acting, when taken with the relationships, makes this series seem almost more finished and mature even while it is extremely whimsical. Amy and Rory feel like real people with real problems and subsequently the emotional highs and lows of their relationship really get to me.
Did anyone not think about Inception with this episode??
Anyway, when I went to put this one in, I kind of remembered that I didn’t care for it that much. Obviously my memory sucks, because how many times since we started this have I said that and then really liked the episode? I even liked Fear Her better the second time around.
The biggest thing about this was toward the end, when Rory dies in the dream world. I CRIED despite knowing that he would be ok. And when Amy said she’d never told him she loved him, I thought that was weird. You guys are ENGAGED and you’ve never told him?? I have as much fear of intimacy as the next emotionally screwed up girl and even I have at least said the words! Rory is a saint, lol.
I spent the whole episode trying to figure out who “hates the doctor that much” (despite having seen it before, my memory really DOES suck) and it’s sad that it was him all along. Oh Doctor, give yourself a break!
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention (in my haste to get this comment written before someone interrupts me YET AGAIN), the part when the Doctor tells Amy he can't bring Rory back and she says, "Well, then what is the point of you?" made my heart hurt :/
I didn't think Inception, but I think this episode came out before Inception did.
haha, that makes sense!
Ok, rephrase, did anyone who had seen Inception before they watched this episode not think of Inception?
Did anyone not think about Inception with this episode??
…Me, actually. And I really liked Inception.
I didn't think about Inception but I've never seen Inception.
And probably won't. Judge me all you want, it's just not my scene.
I saw this before Inception, so no. But having seen it, the parallels are there.
I didn't think Inception, mainly because I haven't seen it. For me, anything with dream stuff will always and forever make me think Sandman. CAN WE GET SOME NON-SPOILERY SANDMAN LOVE GOING SOMEWHERE, PEOPLE? 😀
SANDMAN LOOOOOOOOVE! (But I guess all gifs would be spoilers, eh?)
Never seen Inception, so nope!
And when Amy said she’d never told him she loved him, I thought that was weird. You guys are ENGAGED and you’ve never told him??
Amy's got a ton of abandonment issues, so I can understand her not having said this yet. It's also a really sad note about her character. And these issues definitely were definitely made worse the 2nd time the Doctor left during The Eleventh Hour. So, it's easy to imagine that even though Rory has stuck beside her for so long, she's still going to have walls up and be waiting for the moment when he's leaves because it seems that-that's what she's become used to (her admitting love for someone ends up with them leaving).
WHAT IS WITH THE BAD HAIR CHOICES IN LEADWORTH?! Why oh why does Rory have a rattail? Does living in “the village that time forgot” mean that they think tragic 80s hairstyles are appropriate? It is called Leadworth, and the Doctor said something about slowing down like the two of them. It could be metaphor for settling down, or they could actually be on a wonky timeline. Or Rory could have questionable taste. I’m curious. Anyway, Rory cutting that mess off was a beautifully funny scene, but oh, Amy, no, do not ever grow to like a mullety ponytail.
I enjoyed this episode a lot more than the last one. They’re working out their waking problems in their dreams. It dealt really well with Amy figuring out her relationships since she was confronted directly instead of being able to avoid the conflict between life with Rory and traveling with the Doctor. And while the Doctor was technically still the one mediating as the Dream Lord, at least he wasn’t all shouty about it.
Amy and Rory are cute, if not completely on the same page, and it was great to see them as a couple. I liked seeing inside of Rory’s head and getting to know him better. He’s adorkable, despite the rattail, and I’m soooo glad there’s room for him in the Tardis. I also loved that Karen got more to work with in this story; she brings a lot more than sassy and uncertain — both characteristics I like — to Amy at the end. Great acting. And just by confronting the problem, Amy gets her own reality where she can love Rory and have adventures with the Doctor. I like a sweet ending.
But not completely sweet, I guess. The old people taking the lives of the young? Satire if you apply it to real life, and really, really sad after you find out it’s the Doctor’s psyche. Like the Dream Lord taunts him, “old man picking up young people in order to stay young.” He’s altered the lives of numerous younger people so that he has company and appreciation for what’s going on around him. It’s a good callback to him talking about being old and jaded earlier this series, and previous series’ discussion of the Doctor’s loneliness. Even if the angst isn’t written all over his face, Eleven is still pretty troubled. This episode was a good reminder of the Doctor’s darker side.
"Why oh why does Rory have a rattail? Does living in the village that time forgot mean that they think tragic 80s hairstyles are appropriate?"
Rory just loves 80's fashion. That's why he wears the down vests.
Questionable taste it is, hehe!
Glad to see your comment popped up eventually.
Me too,
I love those vests, they're like 25% of the reason Rory is awesome.
Plus, they're totally functional to protect him from Amy's friendly swats and nudges!
"Like the Dream Lord taunts him, “old man picking up young people in order to stay young.” He’s altered the lives of numerous younger people so that he has company and appreciation for what’s going on around him. It’s a good callback to him talking about being old and jaded earlier this series, and previous series’ discussion of the Doctor’s loneliness."
It makes me think of a dark Peter Pan, when you think of it. That honestly unsettles me to no end.
One of my mom's friends still has a rattail! My mother, for the record, is currently 61. Mom's friend's husband loves it for some reason, so she's had it for like 30 years now. People are weird!
I think I'll chalk that one up to old hippies, haha. Hey, if they're happy, great for them! I just don't think of the modern UK when I think of mullets and rattails!
Watching this episode a second time and knowing what’s coming is really strange. First of all, the Doctor’s self-loathing is blatant:
“I don’t know what you’re doing in here, but there’s only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do.” That line is horrible when you understand the context. The Doctor hates himself, he hates himself more than any other enemy he’s ever faced. The Dream Lord rejoices in taunting the Doctor about the things that he hates about himself. “ Friends, is that the right word for the people you acquire?” His guilt about his companions is one the prevailing feelings the Dream Lord laughs at. Is that what his companions are to him in the end? Things he acquires and abandons in no time? He even hates everything that makes him distinct from other aliens or humans:
“If you had any more tawdry quirks you could open up a Tawdry Quirk Shop. The madcap vehicle, the cockamamie hair, the clothes designed by a first-year fashion student… I’m surprised you haven’t got a little purple space dog just to ram home what an intergalactic wag you are.” Does he think he’s become a caricature of himself? Does he despise how different he is from everyone he meets?
And then his relationship with Amy. The Doctor seems divided when it comes to her, as evidenced from the Dream Lord. Constantly referring to himself as the tall, dark hero in her life, mocking Rory, even competing against him somehow, seems so unlike the Doctor we know. But these are his thoughts! “But I know where your heart lies, Amy Pond…you're in there. Loves a redhead, our naughty Doctor. Has he told you about Elizabeth I? Well, she thought she was the first…” Somewhere, deep down, he is arrogant enough to believe that Amy has no real choice to make; how can a Time Lord compare to Rory? His romantic conquests are trivialized; he seems as though he doesn’t care about whose feelings get hurt. The Dream Lord’s talk with Amy brings out another awful side to the Doctor; he knows he’s disappointed her, leaving her alone in the dark but he will never apologise for it. Amy jumps to his defense but the Dream Lord shoots her down:
“The only girl in the Universe to whom the Doctor tells everything.”
“ Yes.”
“So what's his name?”
The Doctor trusts no one, not even Amy. And then the Dream Lord/Doctor creates a dream world and has her make the most difficult decision of her life; he tells her to choose between ‘the handsome hero and the bumbling country doctor’, certain he already knows ‘where her heart lies’. The look the Dream Lord gives the Doctor after Amy chooses to die is telling; he did not expect to lose. “I have been defeated. I shall withraw.” But he doesn’t really; he abandons them in the dream until the Doctor himself figures their way out.
“But those things he said about you, you don’t think any of that’s true?”
The Doctor doesn’t answer that question. I suppose everyone has a dark side. But I don’t think any of us expected the Doctor’s dark side to be that dark; so self-loathing, so arrogant, so manipulative. The last image we see is that of the Dream Lord as the Doctor’s reflection; and, as much as I hated the character, I think it would be great to see him return.
Loving this double analysis. If you rewatch one episode out of the whole season, it's got to be this one, doesn't it? A very different experience knowing what the Dream Lord represents. We do all have that nagging negative voice in the back of our heads that fills us with constant negativity about ourselves. I suppose it only makes sense that after almost a 1000 (!) years the Doctor's has developed into a whole persona like the Dream Lord.
I do love this episode. It's much more deep than it appears (and it already appears deeper than average with the whole dream vs. reality premise).
It's definitely one to rewatch. The second time I watched it I loved it so much more-it's a completely different episode when you know who the Dream Lord is.
Love your write up about the Dream Lord/Doctor. It so, so fascinating watching it again, knowing who he is. The bit that disturbs me is when he changes into his lothario outfit, "anything could happen." So on some level he's totally aware that he can and maybe would like to seduce. And in that scenario it's really threatening.
That bit unnerved me like no other when I rewatched this episode. I think I subconsciously forgot to mention it because it really creeps me out. I can't imagine the Doctor ever acting on that base (and hopefully deeply buried) emotion but the idea that it exists is kind of frightening.
Come to think of it, Amy recently (in the "Meanwhile in the TARDIS" bit between Flesh and Stone and Vampires of Venice) reminded him that he does pretty much seduces the ladies: he "laugh[s] at all the men and show[s] off to all the girls." I think it's a buried thing for the Doctor — at least he thinks it's buried — but parts of it subconsciously work their way out, and he knows it. Hence the lothario outfit. The totally creepy lothario outfit. Just… no.
Oh, that side of him definitely exists-I mean, you just have to look at Ten-he seduced someone every other episode (unintentionaly, mostly). But the whole 'lothario outfit' (beyond creepy *shudders*) seemed to imply something more sinister, which I never want to associate with the Doctor.
It freaked me out, because it reminds me of dark faerytales about human/non-human relationships, which are never good, no matter what some sappy YA author will say. I don't like the idea of that side of the Doctor, which is why I love this episode.
And then I've grown up on Star Trek and have always cheered for the relationships between different species. For me, it's not YA, it's something that I've always had as a part of my fantasy/scifi existence. Relationships between species have never, not ever, been any sort of problem.
Possibly also why I am a Ten/Rose shipper.
I loved the "lothario" outfit (had never heard that term used like that until today) because it did absolutely and completely freak me out. And like I said, never had a problem with interspecies relationships in fantasy. And yet, here I am, loathing the idea of the Doctor and Amy. Not to mention being threatened by the Doctor.
That line is particularly interesting as it mirrors a line from Jackie Tyler in Rose "there's a strange man in my bedroom… anything could happen" and Nine replies back "No"
mmmm now I will totally have to rewatch that bit. The Doctor's sexuality and what he chooses to do (or not do) with it is a pretty fascinating aspect of the show. (But then, hey, I'm obsessed with analyzing sex.)
After a bit of thought, IDK how much that bit is about the Doctor himself having a dark, sexual side, as much as it is the Doctor's dark side taunting Amy. It's self loathing again- he's not saying "I could and would love to jump your bones," but "look at you, silly girl, wanting to get it on with this disgusting old thing. You barely even know him, because if you did you know you would be repulsed."
Excellent analysis!
Thank you! 😀
I actually interpreted the Dream Lord's actions very differently. I think he felt, yes, on the surface he's great and amazing- he's slept with all these women, he has such an amazing time machine, how could you not love him? But the Dream Lord knew that beneath the surface he wasn't that great. He has girls, and then abandons them- not because he's cruel, but because he has no choice. He doesn't- or can't- trust anyone. He's a life of adventure, but not really dependable. I felt as though the entire dream scenario was constructed to show Amy this, to break her of the hero worship, and to make her remember Rory, who was there and had always been there.
I suppose you could look at it that way but it seems awfully extreme to do all that just to show Amy that Rory is the one she should be with. Plus, the existence of the Dream Lord seems a little pointless in that case-he could have just constructed the two dream worlds and let Amy decide without appearing as a character. And, the Dream Lord himself seemed much more focused on the Doctor than on Amy-he kept pointing out the Doctor's flaws to him and less to Amy. The 'lothario outfit' scene is another thing that is pointless and entirely too creepy to be there if the Dream Lord was merely trying to show Amy that she's better off with Rory than with Eleven.
Well, that wasn't his only function, I'll give you that. What I mean more is that the Dream Lord is a realisation of the Doctor's darker side- but not just his 'evil-ness'. Its also an expression of self-doubt and hatred. On repeated viewings the Dream Lord seems like that voice we've got in the back of our heads, telling us we're not good enough. He was telling Amy 'I'm really not special' but also needling himself. Why would he do this? Well, partly he wanted to help his companions, I think, but also because he genuinely believes he doesn't deserve it. (Or at least, the darker elements of his pysche doesn't).
I never said the Dream Lord was the incarnation of the Doctor's 'evil-ness'. He's definitely more than that, his self-doubt, his guilt, his arrogance etc. Like you said he's the voice in the back of everyone's head-that's why I took him to be more of a foil to Eleven's character himself rather than someone the Doctor constructed in order to bring Amy and Rory together. Obviously he shared that purpose too but I don't know whether that was his intention from the start.
BRRRRRM
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‘There’s something that doesn’t make sense. Let’s go and poke it with a stick.’
I love how much of a head wreck this episode is. I can’t imagine what it’s like going into it without knowing the basic premise, like we did with the Next Time trailer, and seeing the Doctor drop in on Amy, Rory and Rory’s ponytail in the future. It’s great that both realities seem equally real and equally false. This obviously comes down to neither of them being real in the end, but during the episode it makes it that much harder for Team TARDIS to decide which one is real outside of their own gut feelings, which are already tainted by their own desires.
‘Honestly I’d heard such good things. Last of the Time Lords. The Oncoming Storm. Him in the bow tie.’
This episode is an interesting look at the Doctor without us realising it until the end. It’s our first real look at the darker side of the Doctor in Eleven’s run who so far, aside from a few bouts of anger, has generally been fun and kind and a bit silly (lol forever at him trying to catch the baby) with some serious moments but he’s never come across as evil in any way. He clearly has a lot of darkness in him to create something like the Dream Lord from only a few specks of pollen. It’s telling that he blows off Amy asking him if he really thinks that about himself by distracting her with Rory. ‘There’s only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do.’ Oh Doctor.
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/24d251v.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"> (gif of pure adorableness courtesy of the wonderful nanceoir)
I think this episode shows that Amy and Rory hadn’t really thought about their relationship too far into the future. They clearly love each other but they haven’t thought of the long term consequences of what happens after you’re married. They both seem to assume that it’ll work out or that they both want the same thing so they’ve never really talked about where they’d be in 5 years time. Rory wants the idyllic country life cliché while Amy doesn’t seem sure what she wants at all. Rory has this set idea while Amy is trying to put the decision off for as long as she can, hence Amy saying they’ll still get married some day. In real life most relationships have elements of compromise because both people have their own individual wants and desires so I like that this episode explores that a bit and that in the last scene in the TARDIS they choose each other over their personal perfect future and are willing to do what it takes to be with each other in reality.
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I wonder if Rory’s been taking attack lessons from Amy.
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Thank you so much for the gif of Rory hitting the little old lady with a post. I love him even when he's abusing the elderly!
‘After all I’ve done for the over 70s in this village.’
I feel terrible laughing at it but I love that he couldn't do it and Amy just tells him to whack her.
Haha, she's a terrible influence and I love her!
Everytime you post that BRRRRM link, I click! I can't help myself! And I always, ALWAYS forget I'm wearing headphones!!!
Me too. It calls to me and I can't not post it whenever it's relevant.
Awesome comment is awesome. 😀 Love the gifs, too!
ROFL I hadn't made that connection between the cricket bat and Rory whacking the old lady.
Aw, that second gif of Amy and Rory, where they're just touching each other. Seriously, I ship them so hard. It's hard to say whether I'd rather see them like that, or them making out.
It's just so intimate that I want to stare at it for a while but the kissing is good too.
That's how I feel too.
I ship them an unbelievable amount too. They are just so convincingly in love, and not in some overly sappy or childish way. It's a really nice dynamic to see on television. <3
Yeah, this! They are totally the best and funnest example of what a real LTR looks like on TV.
I don't know if Rory specifically wants that boring cliche domestic life so much as he wants a future with Amy, while in the TARDIS dream it's the present and the state of their relationship is still up in the air, as far as he knows. The overly boring surrounded by old people life is a projection of the Doctor's mind, not his
Yay, old lady cricket bat gif!
I love this episode more than I should not just because I'm a Rory/Amy shipper (look, my biases are showing!) but because it's SO NICE to see someone choose the "regular guy" over The Doctor for once.
Ah, and I forgot, I love the line when The Doctor tells her he can't bring Rory back and she spits, "Then what is the point of you?" KILLS ME EVERY TIME.
I love this episode more than I should
No, no, all love for this episode is completely justified! 😀
I love this episode more than I should
Nope, pretty sure you should love it more than cake and dinosaurs and kittens all combined.
It's my special favorite.
We should all love it as much as Rose loves drugs.
But is it even possible to love ANYTHING as much as Rose Loves Drugs?
Certain things come very close. Like Mark, or crack threads, or certain episodes of Doctor Who.
Indeed.
You're right-and as an expert on Rose Loves Drugs, I trust your judgement.
Rory/Amy shippers unite!
But noooooooooooooo: there is every reason in the world to love this episode even if we were to drop the shippiness stuff out of it. It's one of my top two favourites this season and only a teeny subset of my love is due to the shipping. I just adore the look into the Doctor's psyche (and in fact the looks into Amy and Rory's as well).
Also 'then what is the point of you?' killer line, delivered beautifully. Will never not be heartbroken over it.
I know! Every time one of the companions (barring the (near) immortal ones) I feel sad, because I know its going to end in angst. For once a companion chose the 'normal' guy- the sweet, lovable dependable guy, and it feels like they have a real chance at being happy.
To be fair, the old series got rid of companions by marrying them off to regular guys on a fairly regular basis (though the regularity of a few of them could be argued and one was specifically said to be reminiscent of the Doctor).
But I agree, it's nice to see that happen in the new series, considering how everyone but Donna has wanted into the Doctor's pants.
Why don't they just kick themselves to wake up?
Then what is the point of you?
Ouch.
I really love this episode, but I do have one complaint. Half of it was set in the dream TARDIS and we still didn't get to see other rooms! Not fair.
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I don't usually notice things like this, but seriously Doctor?
MORE TARDIS ROOMS.
Personally, I imagine that there's a giant indoor garden/laundry room somewhere in it's depths. I like the image of a washing machine rocking back and forth covered in vines and leaves in a flowerbed.
Okay, my headcanon that the TARDIS has a vineyard somewhere in its depths has now collided with your headcanon, so we have a washing machine rocking back and forth, covered in grapevines. And somehow that makes wine.
Now just imagine if this had popped up in the rearview mirror of the VW Bus:
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WELL PLAYED MADAM
MUMMY!!!
*dies giggling*
Nowhere is that more true than in Amy's case. Up until now, we have seen her running away from Rory and all that he represents. She literally ran away on the night before their wedding, and emotionally she seemed eager to avoiding dealing the problems in their relationship in the episode immediately preceding this one. She was happy to have him along, in the end, kissing him after their narrow escape from Francesco, and inviting him to stay in the TARDIS, but was still content to keep running away from their wedding day as long as possible. Until now. The side of her that we see when Rory is killed by Mrs. Poggett is one that we've never witnessed before, but it makes perfect sense with everything that we have seen.
It is a sad truth of life that sometimes it takes losing someone or something to make people realize how important they/it were to them. This is the case with Amy, who realizes only after Rory is taken from her just how much she truly loved him. Up until now, she has believed that the Doctor saves everyone, that's who he is: the perfect hero who always saves the day. Rory's death cruelly rips the facade away, shows her that the Doctor, too, is sometimes helpless, cannot always make a difference. In her grief, she wonders what the point of him is, and he cannot answer her. He does not know what to say to her, does not know how to deal with her pain any more than he knew what the proper response to her going into labor would be. Where that moment of her demonstrating his shortcomings to him was funny, here it is heartbreaking. It shows us exactly why he fears her choosing him, why the dream world that symbolizes that choice is one of harsh, unrelenting cold. He is not unkind, but he is not able to give her the warmth she needs, either. He fails her twice over in this, the worst moment of her life.
I've spoken before about Amy's trust issues, of feeling that everyone she cares for will abandon her. She kept Rory at arm's length for this reason, refusing to allow herself to care about him too much because of her fear that he would hurt her the way everyone else had already. The moment she realizes how unsuccessful her efforts to this end were is the moment that her worst fears come true: Rory is gone, forever. It's no wonder to me that she then chooses to end this dream world, denying that it can be real. It can't be, because Rory isn't there. Despite all of her resistance, she had begun to feel, even if only subconsciously, that Rory would always be there. She wanted him to always be there, to stay, despite her feeling that his leaving was inevitable. A world without him there is unimaginable, a thing to be hated and feared. Grieving him, regretting her own emotional reticence, she cannot accept being left alone again. It is what she has always been most afraid of, and the idea that this awful scenario could be real is not something to be entertained. Needing to see Rory again, needing for this to be the terrible nightmare, she chooses to end it by driving the bus into the house. She chooses the Doctor's world, because her heart has chosen Rory, and indeed did so all along. It was simply invisible to her until his death made it crystal clear.
At the end of the episode, Amy has made peace with the duality within herself. She is embracing both Rory and life in the TARDIS. The two that seemed to compete, both literally and metaphorically, have no need to, for she needs them both for different things. She is able now to have the adventure and love. She does not have to give up one to have the other; love and marriage with Rory doesn't mean stagnation and boredom, and the adventurous life of the TARDIS does not require her to sacrifice her relationship with the man she loves. She has essentially taken a third option. The same holds true for Rory, now able to find that childlike part of himself within and embrace the adventure as well as Amy. Through the Doctor, they have found themselves, and each other, and are stronger people for it.
But what of the Doctor? The old man in a young body, the mentor, the Gandalf to the fairy tale heroine and hero – what of him? Has he yet come to terms with that darkness within, his own duality? We end this episode with him catching a glimpse of the Dream Lord's visage in his reflection in the TARDIS. He has not accepted his other half any more than he did at the beginning of the episode, when he demanded to know how the Dream Lord had gotten inside his TARDIS, and so he still harbors the self-hatred that enabled him to realize the Dream Lord's identity in the first place. His quest for identity, to unite that duality, has not yet ended, unlike those of his companions; the beast still lurks below.
(cont)
Listy time –
– "You know the Doctor, he's Mr. Cool." Cut to Eleven stumbling around in a very uncool manner, and immediately cue me laughing uproariously.
– As I'm sure many people will point out, Toby Jones = the voice of Dobby. WE CAN HAS MORE POTTER CONNECTIONS IN OUR DOCTOR WHO? YES, WE CAN HAS. 😀 I'd like to reiterate what I said at the beginning of this review, he was absolutely amazing and perfect as the Dream Lord. As with Helen McCrory in the last episode, I wasn't distracted by the Potter connection at all. Definitely one of my favorite guest actors.
– Again, Murray Gold REALLY REALLY outdid himself this season. All the music here is beautiful and perfectly suited to the story.
– I also want to compliment our three leads here (hey, Rory may not be credited, but he is traveling on the TARDIS, I TOTALLY COUNT HIM AS A COMPANION and okay, that is partly because I like him a lot more in this episode than in VoV), but particularly Karen Gillan. Her performance at the end of the episode, when Rory dies, was really wrenching to watch. Yes, I teared up, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Wonderful stuff there.
– Okay, I've said before I don't normally do the shipping thing, but the whole end of this episode, from Rory cutting the ponytail off to their lovely moment together when Amy admits how the other dream world ended? Made me ship Amy/Rory LIKE WHOA. I love these two! I mean, I already adored Amy, but now I'm getting really really fond of Rory and totally approve of him for her. They are so sweet in those last scenes.
– Eleven trying to catch the baby will never not be completely hilarious.
You are a magnificent human being.
<3 <3 <3 Thank you~
Amazing comment. I really love the analysis of the dream worlds themselves reflecting the consequences of Amy's choice and the Doctor and Rory's fears as opposed to just being the basic choices themselves. I'd never thought of them that way before.
Thank you! It's something I noticed on rewatch, and I'm really into dream imagery in fiction in general. I didn't spot the different costumes, though, that some people pointed out, I need to watch again with that in mind!
I love everything you said here, especially about Amy's trust issues and emotional state. A lot of people say she didn't have an arc or any development and that is just simply untrue!
Yeah, I really don't believe those people. Her arc definitely exists, and I personally love it.
She doesn't have an arc? LIES, LIES!!
…
You've probably heard this a lot, but I love your really-long responses. They are amazing and full of sweet, delicious analysis!
Awwww, thanks! 😀
I have such a brain crush on you. Siriusly, I always look forward to your comments because you pick out things that I don't notice.
Thank you~ I have a lot of fun writing them, it makes me really happy to know others enjoy reading them.
I. Love. You. <3
"- "You know the Doctor, he's Mr. Cool." Cut to Eleven stumbling around in a very uncool manner, and immediately cue me laughing uproariously."
Matt is seriously amazing in those scenes, the physicality of him trying to fight off falling asleep while running is a thing of beauty.
Love you too <3
And yes, he is! He is so brilliant with the physical comedy, as well as being so great with expressions, whether they're angry or sad or funny or scary. You can see such a depth of emotion in his face and I love all the physical gestures and the running here. I love watching him. <3
My last serious 'Ship was Ron/Hermione. Since then, I've had some on-and-off ships that never really went anywhere. But the moment I saw Amy/Rory, I took the leap of faith. I knew this would be the one.
I love your brain. Seriously. Your analysis of both the dream worlds and the character motivations are so spot on. I'm so glad you're here to represent for Amy and her character arc and development that seems to get ignored some times. Just because the emotions and growth aren't loud and necessarily obviously spelled out, doesn't mean they don't exist. To be honest, I prefer this subtle style of storytelling. This season (and it's magnified in this episode), is so full of layered themes and characterization. I just love it so much! <3
Yeah, you said everything I wanted to (and did) except bigger and better and longer. <3
Also DEAR STEVEN MOFFAT AND ALL FUTURE DW SHOWRUNNERS: NEVER FIRE MURRAY GOLD. EVER. Every season the soundtrack gets better. And better. And better. (The soundtrack for Casanova is also fabulous.)
"She chooses the Doctor's world, because her heart has chosen Rory, and indeed did so all along"
I forgot to bring it up in my review, but I loved the way this ep was set up, such that yes, she ultimately does choose the TARDIS/Doctor world, but it's not because that's what she wants more, it's that here it's the only way she can have Rory. And so we end with Amy's Choice being Rory, but is also a choice to have both, and screw what anyone else says about that not being possible.
So did I, I love love LOVE that she is being allowed (by the writers) to have both. I don't see a good reason why she shouldn't.
I wish I could remember where I read it, but I know for certain I read an interview where one of the higher-ups for the show even said that Amy's a two-man kinda gal.
Which just… GET IT, AMY.
I LOVE THIS EPISODE LIKE A LOT, OKAY? I mean, it made me scared of birdsong!
Amy Pond rocking her pregnancy and using it as a way to make it clear she is still the HBIC is awesome. And then Rory's ponytail! Seriously, that's some adorable costuming. I wasn't sure about Rory for a while, but this episode really made me ship Amy/Rory. I still wasn't that happy with Rory himself in this episode, given his posturing and competitiveness and being sort of desperate about the village dream being reality. HOWEVER, I liked seeing him really getting Amy and showing that he really does care about her, and will make changes about himself and even accept a wild adventurous life that he may not want for himself, but will live with if it means being with her. And they just have a wonderful charm with each other; I love seeing them interact.
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So, Amy's choice. Amy saying "then what is the point of you" is just really heartbreaking and such a big moment for her. I feel like I couldn't connect with Rory earlier because Amy was holding back somewhat – from this ep, I was now content to embrace the Rory love. I loved watching Amy making that realization of how important he is to her, and I consider this to basically be the defining moment of her character arc: Amy has grown up with no parents and was abandoned by the Doctor when she was a child, and constantly had people disbelieving in her and sending her to therapists. SHE HAS ISSUES, and she knows it. And in this episode she realizes that her fears are less important than being with Rory. It's not that I expect her to be a changed person after this or anything, but I love seeing her realize these things about herself. And okay, so I love watching Rory and Amy making out. They're gorgeous, alright?
I also love that Rory is not just another Mickey storyline, since Amy now gets that she loves him, and the Doctor pretty clearly shows he's not just gonna write him off like he did Mickey originally. I already said I was hesitant at first to accept Rory, and that was partly because I didn't like him being another reject. But he's not, is he? AMY CHOSE HIM, and that's a whole new ballgame for the show.
And I kind of love that Eleven is also kind of competitive with Rory for Amy's affections, but is also willing to simply let Amy take the lead and make a big leap of faith for Rory. And then THE DREAMLORD! He's kind of awesome. And then he's the Doctor! One of my favorite reveals ever. And much better than any of that 'random Time Lord' nonsense fandom always loves speculating about for new characters (Rani! Valeyard! Yawn).
In sum, ilu Amy Pond and ilu Karen Gillan!
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THIS THIS THIS, as usual I love reading your comments and agree. 😀
THAT BELLY. I'm hypnotized by the last gif…
After watching Amy's Choice, I agree even more with what you and arctic_hare were saying yesterday about Rose/Mickey/Doctor being much harder to watch that Amy/Rory/Doctor. It's a relief that he isn't just another Mickey, and this episode really exemplifies how Rory and Amy get more sympathetic writing than Mickey and Rose did; I'm not cringing and saying "poor Rory!" at every turn! We get to see how their relationship works, and Rory gets a lot more time than Mickey did, so even if they're not in a perfect situation, it's a lot easier and more fun to watch.
Amy's little poncho dance is so cute <3 And I agree with everything you said!
I love that moment of 'Well you do have a history of *Amy glare* being very lovely'.
It's great to compare the Amy/Rory relationship to the Rose/Mickey relationship because they're both opposite ends of the relationships while in the TARDIS scale. I like that we see that it's possible to still maintain a relationship with someone you love and that you don't necessarily have to sacrifice it to have adventures. Obviously it takes work and Amy and Rory had issues to work out but it's nice to see a companion not having to give up an important part of their life.
This. And I love the underlying message: that love/marriage and adventure are not mutually exclusive. I mean, I'm not married myself, but it's a great thing to see the idea presented that Amy and Rory can enjoy their relationship and plan to get married and still be able to have adventures at the same time.
Heck, I can imagine them having adventures even with a baby! 😀 I'm sure that, with the TARDIS and her vast resources available, the Doctor and Rory could come up with some space-and-time-travel-friendly pram… 😀
WARNING: This image is not for people with a weak disposition.
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They're coming to get you. Even running won't stop them. Are you terrified yet?
I was just pleasantly
strollingscrolling along the thread and this is what you just did to me.<img src=http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad311/Chritter710/tumblr_lgb85h6GXG1qzoidjo1_500.gif>
Such fun!
Karen's pregnant belly dance is the AWESOMEST THING EVER, y/y?
"If we die, we might as well do it looking like a Peruvian Folk band." This and that gif is why I can never look at ponchos without laughing.
And I agree about the Mickey/Rory thing. Like Mark pointed out last review, this is awfully similar to poor Ri- er, Mickey. But along with a different personality, the writers are fighting to make his story pointedly different, too.
Ponchos are actually my go-to comfy, cold weather, indoors clothing (and I'm wearing one now, in fact). So I grinned at it, but in a different way than just laughter.
I do strongly believe the writers were very conscious of Rory's story starting out like Mickey's, and them wanting to make sure they don't repeat it. And I much prefer Rory's story to Mickey's, so I'm thankful.
That and the "poke it with a stick" line are possibly my favorite lines from this whole season. Or at least very close to "the pool was in the library".
I love how the Doctor twirls in the poncho, he's just so <3<3<3 all the time 😀
Yes! The emphasis on CHOICE is just so satisfying. The writers seem to have taken the Mickey/Rose relationship and completely turned it on its head to create something new and wonderful.
That pregnant dancing belly GIF will never stop being adorable to me.
I always see the next time on bits, and I always know the titles, but before the next time on for Amy’s Choice aired, I accidentally saw a picture of pregnant Amy, and I was so sad. It would have been nice for it to be a surprise.
I really like this episode, it’s just really interesting. I remember having no idea at all who the Dream Lord was, but rewatching it, it makes sense that it’s another side of the Doctor, all his insecurities in a physical form.
And I think it’s even better with a rewatch. I didn’t super like it the first time, but watching it again made it even better. It might have something to do with knowing who the Dream Lord is and being able to see the clues.
but because they both are so skillful at small, subtle changes in facial expressions.
I remember when series 5 was airing, there were people who said that Karen had only one expression. Really people? I find that just ridiculous.
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A couple cast Confidential goofyness gifs:
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BONUS! What character has Toby Jones done the voice for??
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DOBBY! Weird.
DOBBY!
*runs away sobbing*
That Inception macro is so perfect.
Check out this trock song about this episode!
"My Reality" by Alex Carpenter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBwHj6mHMPk
That's really catchy! And it's the Remus Lupins guy! (I met him once – I didn't know he did songs about Doctor Who)
He also does songs about The Hunger Games.
Huh, that's really cool! And it looks like he does songs about lots of other geeky things- awesome!
Rory's hair! Oh, what is that hair?!
Karen Gillan had a blast with that fake pregnant belly- she had her own little dance with it.
When Rory died I started freaking out because I didn't want him to die! And then Amy crashed the van and killed herself and the Doctor. I don't know if I could have done that even if I had believed that world was false.
I guess the Dream Lord gave us hints in his manner of dress that he was the Doctor- he's wearing an almost identical outfit. But Matt Smith's face at the end, when he's looking in the Dream Lord's face, looks so old and wary you're reminded that the Doctor isn't the young whippersnapper that Matt Smith is, but a centuries old alien who has seen and done more than any of us could ever imagine.
I mentioned in a comment on VoV that Rory terrifies Amy- everyone else in her life either leaves her, or thinks she's out of her fucking mind, and she cannot conceive that Rory won't do one or the other or both.
He won't, of course. That's not who Rory is. Rory is the one human on the planet who loves her unconditionally, but it's hard because she doesn't know how to let him. And she is terrified of letting him. But once she's faced with the possibility of not having Rory at her back- as he's been for most of her life- the one person who never, ever, left her, not even when she went off with her Raggedy Doctor, she realizes what he means to her, and equally as important, she realizes what she means to him.
I love that we have a couple that have issues that they need to work out, and they're real issues (I know from abandonment) and as they work through their shit, it's believable. In a timey-wimey, madcap space adventure kind of way.
"I love that we have a couple that have issues that they need to work out, and they're real issues (I know from abandonment) and as they work through their shit, it's believable."
Exactly. I love their character arc together because it's about a progression and moving past their insecurities. I get where they're both coming from, and now I feel like they understand where the other is as well, and that finally they can now overcome these problems that have kept their relationship problematic in the past.
I love that their character arcs are intertwined with one another, and that I understand exactly how the arc started, and we get to see how it's progressing. I think it's the best character arc(s) of the show yet.
I really enjoyed rewatching this episode, particularly knowing the endgame. The first time I watched it, for a second I thought, "Hey, maybe they're both dreams! No, that's just silly of me." Oh Doctor Who, how you always fool me!
Also, the best moment of the episode was when Amy pretended to go into labor and the Doctor panicked and got into position to "catch" the baby like a football was about to drop out of her uterus. Doctor, never ever change. <3
Yes! I always laugh when the Doctor just kind of sticks his hands out. He should know how it works!
This is one of my favorite Who episodes, but that’s probably because I love Amy/Rory so much. This is a great way to continue their relationship, and it’s nice to see Amy opening up to Rory at the end.
Oh and MOAR RORY!!!
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So I should start this episode out by telling you how much I LOVE DREAMS IN FICTION. I know there are very valid criticisms (like how Bella’s dreams just so happened to always reflect exactly was about to happen) but when they are done well I just love them so much. SO MUCH. I love all the little details that can be put in.
So basically, as soon as I knew this episode was a dream episode I WAS SO EXCITED.
So, random run down of LOVE
The cold open is just lovely and excellent. I like how the Doctor says “This will be a tricky one,” and then smiles a little. He likes tricky things. But, that’s about as happy as poor Eleven really gets in this episode. The Doctor’s angst, which has basically been it’s own character in the New Series, finally seals the deal and gets a physical manifestation. And, in doing so, dedicates so much of this episode to the Doctor’s self hatred.
That topic really resonates with me and I was very happy with how it was handled in this episode. There are the obvious things, sure, such as the Doctor saying there is only one person in all of time and space that hates himself that much. But I also like the smaller moments. When Amy and Rory in the TARDIS ask him what to do about the cold and he snaps at them and then instantly feels bad and apologizes. His voice just sounds so small. That really hit home for me- that lashing out at someone else and then, even as the words are leaving your mouth, feeling so, so bad because it isn’t their fault and they don’t deserve to be yelled at. Also, it’s a big moment for the Doctor, who usually is all grinning in the face of danger. This is clearly something different for him. Also, at the end, when Amy asks him if he actually believes all the bad things the Dream Lord said about him and he just distracts her with Rory. And then he sees the Dream Lord… because it never really leaves.
Clothing watch! Interesting note: the clothes they wear in the TARDIS dream are the same as the ones they wore in reality. For Amy and Rory, anyway, that means their clothing is something they are, actually, likely to wear, which helps with the fake out of that dream being the real one. Amy is wearing a lot of dark blue with just that one pop of red- it works with the darkness of the TARDIS. Rory is also wearing dark clothes, his shirt is a maroon and he is either wearing the same vest that he was in Vampires of Venice or else one that is very, very similar. By the way, this would be the first possible point that I’d say they could be wearing their own clothes. They could easily have stopped in at Amy and Rory’s houses after he agreed to travel with them. The blankets are interesting, too, the Doctor and Rory get plaid ones, green and red, respectively, while Amy gets a tan one. Oh, and Amy is wearing jeans. Possibly because Karen didn’t have to do a lot of running around in the TARDIS dream and so jeans weren’t a problem.
In the other dream, the clothing is interesting, too. Amy is wearing blue and red as usual, true, but they are much less saturated, dustier shades than normal. Also, she is wearing her hair up, which is very unusual. Not as unusual as Rory’s hair, of course, which is just SO UGLY RORY NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. Now, the Doctor. He only gets two outfits so he is just wearing the maroon bowtie outfit in the TARDIS dream and the blue bowtie outfit in the other one. I personally prefer the maroon one because I like that jacket better. I am tickled by how he matches his suspenders to his bowtie.
The Dream Lord wears so many different outfits. Why was he even wearing that space suit-y thing in the car with the Doctor? No idea.
The old people threat fell flat to me, which was fine because it wasn’t the main threat, anyway. I just didn’t connect to it at all, except of course when Rory “dies”. Amy’s reaction really sold that to me. She refuses to believe that a world where Rory dies is real. I also think it is interesting, the Dream Lord set it up like if she chose the TARDIS world, that would be choosing the Doctor and if she choose the other world, she was choosing Rory, but she ended up choosing Rory by choosing the TARDIS world. That was neat.
(cont)
I love some of the little moments in this episode. When Amy first “wakes up” from the dream where she is pregnant, she keeps touching her stomach and checks Rory’s hair. Then later, the Doctor opens up her jacket to check her stomach. Also, when the Dream Lord is reappearing everywhere, Rory hides behind Amy a little bit. OH RORY you magnificent failure. Also, when the one old alien who ran a sweet shop picks him up and he’s all “Did I not say thank you?” I can’t tell if he’s trying to be witty or actually thinks that’s the time to ask or if his brain just short circuited. He gets the best lines though. “You do have a history of… being very lovely.”
Back to Rory’s “death” scene. Karen’s acting in that scene is love.y The flat way she says “No. Come back.” is so heartbreaking to me. And then she asks the Doctor what is the point of him if he doesn’t save people. Oh, Amy. And then the Doctor tries to comfort her but obviously doesn’t know how. “I didn’t know. I honestly didn’t, until right now. I just want him. I love Rory and I never told him and now he’s gone.” Those lines could easily be cheesy but the understated way Karen does them, with the emotion bubbling right beneath the surface, works for me. Then back in the TARDIS when she hugs him so slowly.
In conclusion:
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So I should start this episode out by telling you how much I LOVE DREAMS IN FICTION. I know there are very valid criticisms (like how Bella’s dreams just so happened to always reflect exactly was about to happen) but when they are done well I just love them so much. SO MUCH. I love all the little details that can be put in.
ME TOO ME TOO ME TOO! I think that's why I got so angry at Bella's dream sequences, STEPHENIE MEYER IS SUCH A HACK, AAAAAAAAAARGH. But I'm not going to rehash what we all already know. 😀 This is a lovely, lovely review, I really enjoyed reading it, as usual!
Aw, thank you! And yeah, SMEYER WHY DO YOU SPOIL YOUR OWN BOOKS WHY IS BELLA ABLE TO PREDICT THE FUTURE BETTER THAN THE PERSON WHO IS SUPPOSED TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO DO SO etc etc. Dream sequences get a bad rap because some people are so bad at them, but when they are done well they are THE BEST
Exactly! I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but SANDMAN SANDMAN SANDMAN UNF. <3 And that's not spoilery, because the premise of it is right there in the title. (Mark is going to read it, so I don't want to spoil; and I am SUPER DUPER EXCITE ABOUT HIM READING IT).
I JUST finished Sandman, and if Mark is going to read it, I AM SO EXCITE.
He is, for sure! 😀 If you go over to Mark Reads and go to Suggestions, you'll see it on the list of confirmed upcoming reads. It's not in order, though, because he hasn't sorted that out (or announced it) beyond His Dark Materials being next up.
It's a race car driver's outfit. He's mocking the daredevil side of the doctor. He's mocking the doctor's bloody past with the Butcher outfit. And the original outfit… bowtie… he's just mocking the doctor.
Ah, thank you! That was the one outfit I couldn't place- he wears the bow tie in the TARDIS dream, a more traditional suit + tie in Leadworth (I guess because it's less whimsical?) and a hat, butcher outfit in the butcher's shop, etc, but I know nothing about race car driving so I didn't know that last outfit.
the Ledworth outfit of suit and tie is what you'd expect a Doctor (either a General Practitioner or a hospital consultatnt) to wear. I think he also wears a waistcoat / tie combo, which is a "Lord of the Manor" outfit. that's spoffing the Time Lord. All his outfits are to highlight part of the Doctor's character.
He also adds a poncho when they're all in ponchos. On my second viewing I spent a lot of time going 'how did I not notice how his outfits mirror the Doctor's?'
I thought at first that the race car driver's outfit was a spacesuit as some sort of callback to Waters of Mars.
I really love your analysis of everyone's clothes.
Yes Mark the Doc was vegetarian. I won't say why or which one though. NO ONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER.
A. The box under the TARDIS console the Doctor opens has the words: "TARDIS. Time And Relative Dimension In Space. Build Site: Gallifrey Blackhole Shipyard. Type 40. Build date: 1963. Authorised for use by qualified Time Lords only by the Shadow Proclamation. Misuse or theft of any TARDIS will result in extreme penalties and permanent exile." written on it. This is also written on a plaque on the console itself, as shown in the TARDIS tour on the BBC website.
B. The van the Doctor uses to rescue the survivors has the license plate 'ADW 308N'
I have more but some are spoilers. Any more please?
I have nothing to add except: You're back! Yay!
Random thought before I read comments: if you're a fan of Rory and/or Arthur Darvill (me, me!), check out the Confidental episode, called "Arthurian Legend." It's got a lot of Arthur in it, taking us through shooting this episode. Lots of fun.
I've never watched the Confidentials, but out of curiosity, do a lot of them get punny names?
A lot of them do, actually. Well, looking at the epguides page, there are a few early on ("I Get a Side-Kick Out of You," which corresponds to "Aliens of London" — the sidekick in question being Mickey) and scattered throughout, but by Series 4 it's pun city: A Noble Return, The Italian Job, Oods and Ends, Send in the Clones, etc.
Series 5 has some puns, but not nearly as bad as Series 4.
Though, the title corresponding with Tennant's last episode is rather lovely and sweet: Allons-y!
Can I also say that the confidentials are worth a watch just for the ridiculous and hilarious music montages?? I want to find whoever has the job of picking out the music for those montages and shake their hand.
Okay this isn't going to be a very interesting or even coherent comment (slightly burnt out from the huge Uni assignment I had this week). As with almost every episode so far this series I LOVE IT SO MUCH!
Amy if you don't want to live in that house in Leadworth CAN I? It's giving the Pond Residence from Eleventh Hour/Felsh and Stone serious competition for "House I want to live in". It's almost exaclty the sort of house I dream of living in one day. The opening scene of Amy in the kitchen is so pretty, the red and blue of her outfit standing out against the yellow walls. There's something about the light in it, and later in the nursery, that soft hazy sunlight that just gives it such a dream-like atmosphere.
That's actually one of the things I love most about the climax, it's kind of hard to explain but there's this feel to Rory's "death" scene and them waking up in the TARDIS, the dream-like state and waking up from it really comes across in those scenes (look I said I was burnt out, there's no way any of this makes sense).
It's not one of the more elaboratly "alien" episodes but the production design is so spot on. I have particular love for Amy and Rory's Leadworth costumes. They really do look like a young couple in a country village (it's the big coat and tied back hair for Amy and the waxed jacket on Rory that sell it for me), but still looking like their usual wardrobe. Even when massively pregnant Amy is still in her miniskirt.
I'm sure others will do a much better job of breaking it down but I love that this is such a character-centric episode. It's not exploring the new location (we've seen these places before) it's exploring the dynamic between the current Team TARDIS and learning more about who they all are. So many lovely little character moments I could easily just fall into listing them all because I do genuinely love all of them.
For a TARDIS fan this is a really good episode, all the scenes set inside to get a further look at the new set. At the same time, DEAD AND FROZEN TARDIS OMG NO! FUCK YOU DREAM LORD!
The VW bus <3, I just, I don't really have anything interesting to say about it. I just love VW buses, they're so cute.
Shameless posting of adorable Amy/Rory gifs to close? Yeah why not:
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For a TARDIS fan this is a really good episode, all the scenes set inside to get a further look at the new set. At the same time, DEAD AND FROZEN TARDIS OMG NO! FUCK YOU DREAM LORD!
It's so pretty to look at but nooooo, TARDIS! I love when they first wake up on the TARDIS and the Doctor kicks the console (you shouldn't do that Doctor) because it sounds like the TARDIS actually gives a little noise in protest.
Repeating yesterday but I would love an episode set purely in the TARDIS. It would be epic.
Yes, Amy, you DO have a history of exaggerating. I love how Rory rethinks what he's going to say without actually taking anything back. XD
At first the frozen TARDIS made me think that The Day After Tomorrow had swept through there. But during a rewatch for some reason it made me think of the Titanic (like in the movie when they are sifting through the wreckage) which I thought added an interesting parallel. ~The ship is going down~
I'd genuinely not made the Inception connection until just now. Film wasn't out here till long after I'd seen it, and I'd just never kept them in the same mental space to make that association.
I think you've collectively ruined the episode for me. D:
(I kid, natch. But I will never watch it and not think of Inception again.)
Poor pregnant Amy, those guys really don't know that there are things you just shouldn't say to a pregnant woman. Like, "You're huge!", "You've swallowed a planet.", "You were all elephanty." and "I'll deal with this one chubs."
LOVE this episode. The reveal at the end that the Dream Lord is the Doctor demands a second viewing. I like that Eleven didn't answer Amy when she asked if all those disturbing things the Dream Lord said were true. I think they are. Such a great insight into an aspect of the Doctor that he tries to keep well hidden or not confront (like never seeing past companions again)
I'm not sure what you're confused about regarding the Dream Lord. I want to mention something from a Classic serial, again but ahhh *frustrated*
Are Classic serial spoilers discouraged, then? I'd imagine, that since it's unlikely Mark will watch the serial I think you're referring to, that it would be illuminating to discuss that further. Pretty much all my knowledge of that particular thing comes from wiki and plot summaries, so I'd be interested in knowing more about the similarities. If people think it's safe to talk about, that is!
Dude I really, really want to mention it but I don't want to spoil it in case Mark watches it…he needs to know about this!
Unless explicitly asked for by Mark, Classic series spoilers are discouraged. Mark is slowly watching Classic Who and choosing episodes largely based on suggestions from us so you never know what episode he'll end up watching next. It's generally better to be safe than sorry and er on the side of caution.
Not to mention there are also some people here who are making their way through Classic Doctor Who as well and would appreciate a spoiler warning of some kind.
You're probably better off doubling checking with a mod before posting anything you're unsure of.
The (Sixth) Doctor became a vegetarian after the events of The Two Doctors (which contains Two and Jamie btw). That apparently lasted until Nine ordered a steak in Boom Town (…I think. Its been forever since I last saw season/series 1 orz).
In my headcanon, the Doctor is still a vegetarian (ok ok, it's because I am, and sometimes I like to pretend everybody is to make me feel better about the world). No, really, I just always thought it would be weird to eat a steak then go to a planet with talking cows who spend their time solving the universe's problems. Although, I guess he's met talking trees, so plants could potentially be out, too. Maybe he exists on Jammy Dodgers and tea?
It would also be weird to eat Jammy Dodgers and Jelly Babys then fight the Kandy Man but the Doctor does it. I think if he didn't eat stuff that had a sentien intelligent version somewhere in all of time and space he'd starve to death.
Now I have this really awesome image of Jammy Dodgers with legs and Jelly Babies having a dance party on some planet similar to the Wonka factory!
You aren't far off, seriously look up the Kandy Man or Bertie Basset who's a real mascot for a sweet company. The only reason the BBC didn't get sued for the Kandy Man is because they promised they would never use him in another episode again.
I had no idea that was real!!! You have made my day.
Nah, the BBC didn't get sued because it was FREE PUBLICITY for Bassets. The real miracle is that the Kandy Man wasn't banned by the BBC on the grounds of product placement.
It is fair to say that the Doctor went veggie for a while (a Century or two) after what can only be described as a very bad gastronomic experience. However for somebody like the Doctor all forms of eating are fraught with issues. Eating vegetation only as a lifestyle choice isn't necessarily moral after a long philosophical chat with a tree. Eating anything carries a cost, but it's the price of life. I can see why somebody like the Doctor finally accepts that eating plants isn't very moral either but eating something is essential to life so, but it doesn't stop the guilt. (Then again, I always wondered what Harrison Chase in Seeds of Doom ate given his views on everything).
I love this episode because it's got a great concept, it's hilarious ("If we're going to die, let's die looking like a Peruvian folk band."), it really sells Amy/Rory, and it gives us a very good look into the Doctor and his self-doubts. Don't worry 11, you'll always be Mr. Cool to me 🙂
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I still don't understand what was going on with him here but he looks amazing.
He's fighting off hypnotic sleep in a dreamworld while he runs from some aliens in dead old people.
It's really not that complicated.
Of course he's Mr. Cool! He wears a bowtie, doesn't he? And bowties are cool. QED.
Your logic is flawless!
I want to express my love for this episode.
But I can't.
There is absolutely no possible way I can express my love for this episode in words and do it justice.
I just can't.
That's like asking Rose to express her love of drugs in words. Some feelings just transcend language.
Just… just so many feelings.
This. This is pretty much how I feel about this episode. I JUST FEEL, I CANNOT WORD. I'll just go sit over here hugging the DVD like a crazy person.
<3<3<3
Well, gifs always help, right?
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Gifs always welcome <3
I have never seen that gif before. It is amazing!
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That's like asking Rose to express her love of drugs in words.
I'm now literally laughing extremely hard because of this.
This episode is really best watched twice, because the first time you have no idea what's going on (well, no one except the Doctor does, and even he doesn't have it completely figured out.) On first watch, it's a damn good episode. It's kind of a mindfuck, it's creepy, it's got some really funny bits; basically, it's a good episode of Doctor Who. Then the (startlingly blase) reveal from the Doctor at the end, and everything about it is suddenly different.
Which is why you must then watch it again, knowing that the Dream Lord is really part of the Doctor's psyche. Suddenly it's one of the more disturbing episodes ever, at least for me. Its subtlety (well, subtle by Doctor Who standards) makes it all the more sad and creepy. The Doctor's guilt and his apparent self-loathing are pretty terrible to see, once you realize that the Dream Lord is merely voicing the Doctor's own feelings.
Speaking of Donna (no one was but) I really think there is a great oppurtunity there that the writers probably wont take advantage of. Since the Doctor has a new face, I really want to see an episode where the Doctor runs into Donna, aliens run into the Doctor, and he has to spend the episode saving the world and keeping Donna from being triggered.
I am intrigued by your theories and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
And possibly be one of those fans and send Moffat and company a note, pointing them to this idea.
Yeah, that's my not so secret dream episode.
… which is sort of a pun, considering today's episode? Heh.
I WOULD LOVE TO SEE DONNA AND ELEVEN TOGETHER!
And you can bring up Donna anytime you want, because she was awesome and I miss her.
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Speaking of you speaking of Donna, my first thought after the Dream Lord's "Loves a redhead our Doctor" (or whatever the actual line was) was "OMG DONNAAAAAA!…oh wait he doesn't actually appear to be talking about her."
Mine too! I thought he was going to bring her up, but he didn't, and it gave me all the sads 🙁
Re the redhead comment, I immediately thought of Mel!
(No, not really. I'm not THAT insane.)
….neither am I….
….
…you make me wibbly pointing out that that's possible and yet we haven't seen it.
Part of me is living in hope that when they do a multi Doctor story (because there better be one for the 50th anniversary at the very least) Donna will be one of the companions. I refuse to believe otherwise.
Okay, I am slowly forming my dream anniversary story with all the ideas you guys are coming up with, and I will probably end up terribly disappointed.
I want: Multi-Doctor story (At least Eight through Eleven, Seven possibly too- he hasn't been in one yet either, has he?) wherein all parties come together and fix Donna's head. Make it so. Please?
And it should mostly take place in other rooms of the TARDIS.
like the swimming pool!
That's exactly why Ten should have regenerated into Eleven in the radiation chamber. He could have gone to Donna's wedding, sat on the bride's side at the back, instead of malingering by the tombstones.
The part where the Doctor reacts to Amy saying she's going into labor by cupping his hands between her legs like he's about to catch a football always reduces me to tears of laughter. You'd think, after 900+ years, he'd have a reasonable idea of how this works.
It's the looms. He just doesn't understand human child birth because of them.
NO LOOMS. THERE WERE NEVER ANY GODDAMN LOOMS.
Ahem. Sorry. I prefer to pretend that that particular theory of Time Lord reproduction was never created.
But it's such a fun word to say. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMS
I laughed the first time I came across that particular theory. It's just so strange.
I think whoever came up with that one was just afraid of sex.
Wouldn't be surprised. You'd think with a sci-fi show they'd come up with a better alternative though and invent some interesting piece of tech but no, looms was apparently the idea they went with.
Me too. They weren't cannon, were they?
I think it's in one of the books so it's very much YMMV as to whether or not it's canon but the show has contradicted it with references to childhood and even seeing a young Master.
There's also RTD's statement that the mysterious Time Lady was the Doctor's mother. She didn't look like a loom to me.
Clearly it's just a perception filter and Ten was feeling a mysterious deep emotion about the loom that spun(?) him. He thought it'd been broken up for fire wood a long time ago.
Maybe she was a loom before she regenerated?
That's what I thought. What is and isn't cannon is kind of tricky.
I almost wish they addressed this on the actual show.
I think it falls under the heading of "You can accept this as canon or not, whichever you like." Though my personal definition of canon is pretty narrow, basically meaning anything that has appeared on the show itself. Anything else that isn't directly contradicted on the show is "accept it or ignore it as you choose."
However, that's just me. Anyone can have their own definition of what's canon and what's not, especially where Doctor Who is concerned.
That theory will always be looming over us.
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Extra props for a Paul Gross gif!!
That's one cruel pun… 😛
You have a warped mind.
Thank you 🙂
BUT IT'S HILARIOUS! SOMEONE WAS SCARED OF SEX OR VAGINAS OR SOMETHING AND TOOK METAPHORS OF WEAVING DNA WAY TOO SERIOUSLY!
I don't have time to write a full comment and you guys probably already covered everything anyway but Eleven's temper tantrum about Leadsworth and then his baby fail scene with Amy will never stop being funny to me. He's both panicked and a bit oblivious in that panic.
"It's okay, we're both doctors!" [he crouches and puts his hands under her] "What do we do?"
(Really Doctor? You're 907 and you were going to CATCH A BABY? Laughing till the end of time.)
Really, they're terrible at dealing with a pregnant lady. Honestly, that should have been a sign that the village was a dream, because there's no way Rory would have survived to Amy's third trimester.
because there's no way Rory would have survived to Amy's third trimester.
If he made it through that- …well, no- it'd be wise for him to be wary of even entering the room Amy would be in when she's going through labor.
I hope he at least had the sense not to become an OBGYN.
I'm a little disappointed by Rory calling Amy "chubs." He should know better, it's the Doctor who doesn't understand civility.
Not my fave, but not hated. Had some great moments (as they all do IMO) and lacks the inconsistencies of VoV. Love @ Rory.
Gah so the browser just did that great thing where it ate the long comment I wrote >:(
I think this ep has everything: character development, story, beating up old people. As much depth as there is here, I'm sorry guys the visual of the impending old lady and her walker of death is what wins this episode for me. And poor Rory and his ponytail this time. And of course Amy being totally amazing. Amazingly enough I haven't seen inception but I've seen Total Recall and plenty of dream sequences before this so it's all good.
I like that they addressed the Doctor picking up young companions and ditching them in the form of his darkest thoughts, it was just awesomely creepy and haunting. Also I am in need of pants right now and I'm obsessed with other people's pants they are all I can look at and I really like Matt Smith's pants/boots combo. People usually notice his tie and jacket but those are great too!
Also was "what's the point of you?" supposed to be a reference back to "Dalek?" Have like 50 people said this by now?
ALSO: "soo, what do you do to stave off the"
"boredom?"/"selfharm"
"well you do have a history of….being really lovely"
"just leave her"
"not so impressive"
All my memorable quotes seem to involve some kind of deprecation.
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Oh, Eleven. Completely confused by the existence of a quiet, boring life. Why on earth would anyone want that?
Also, this:
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I thought I had this in gif form but I can't find it so…
I have nothing to contribute really as I'm about to run out the door, so I'll just say that I love this episode and I love Amy and Rory and I love Eleven and I'll just leave it at that.
This was the very first Matt Smith episode of "Doctor Who" I'd ever seen. I was in my veeeeery earliest experience with Doctor Who – I'd watched a few of Eccleston's episodes and maybe one or two of Tennant and I caught this on BBC America last summer on a repeat. I literally had no idea what was going on (different theme song opening – different companion – different Doctor – TWO companions? – WHUT?) And – it shames me to say now – that I… sort of… kind of… a little bit… thought it was odd that that Amy was married to Rory and not "together" with the Doctor (I WAS NEW TO DOCTOR WHO – STOP JUDGING ME! I KNOW BETTER NOW) All that being said – I liked it 🙂
Oh and we get to see more of the TARDIS! Sure, it's just a random closet off to the side where the Doctor keeps the extra blankets – but still – MOAR TARDIS PLZ!
So I've never been pregnant… but how does Amy run around like that? Even holding her back – she's awfully quick on her feet for being thisclose to popping.
"We have to grow up eventually." "Says who?" ILU, AMY!!
I actually thought of cold burning fire for a story idea I had a long time ago and I tossed it aside because I thought it was stupid. And then Doctor Who has a cold burning sun! Goes to show that some ideas aren't as stupid as I think.
So… if the Dream Lord is the only person that hates the Doctor "that" much and the Dream Lord is the Doctor… holy crap. That's just depressing…
(I guess I'm going to have to see "Inception" now. I've been avoiding it because I despise Di Caprio with the burning of a thousands suns – too many of my junior high classmates were infatuated with him when "Titanic" came out and it got to the point where, to this day, I just cannot stand the guy. But now that you've all compared "Inception" with "Amy's Choice," I'll give it a shot).
Obligatory rec of reading Sandman too, if you haven't (I swear, I'm not Neil Gaiman or anyone related to him…), either before Mark does or along with him.
Are you sure? NEIL IS THAT YOU
😛
QUITE POSITIVE 😛
Thanks for the rec! I just finished "The Graveyard Book" and I loved it – I'd never read anything by Neil Gaiman before, but now I want to read more.
You're welcome! And yay, Graveyard Book! 😀 I love that one!
OMG Graveyard Book is AMAZING. Absolutely love it <3
I've never read Sandman, but in all other ways I AM A HUGE NEIL GAIMAN FAN.
The first book I read by him (half by him) was Good Omens (because I had read Terry Pratchett before and wanted to try it out).
Then I read Stardust and American Gods and Neverwhere. And Anansi Boys. And The Graveyard Book (actually I listened to him read The Graveyard Book to me which is MAGNIFICENT).
I am wanting to go to the House on the Rock thingie next October maybe, since I live relatively close to where it is and I actually was not aware of the party thing until recently.
Also I read his blog.
Also I might be following his assistant Lorraine on her blog and possibly also Joan of Dark who is apparently a really good friend of a friend of mine's AND I TOLD HER I WOULD USE HER TO MEET NEIL.
I swear I'm not that crazy.
Wait wait wait, Stardust as in the Stardust with the girl who comes to a highschool and she has the thing she does with the tablecloth and the flower on all of her desks? Or am I thinking of something else…
I think you might be thinking of Stargirl, by Jerry Spinelli? Stardust is by Gaiman and is completely different. They made a movie of it a couple of years ago with Claire Danes, if that helps?
OKAY YEAH, I thought that it would be a bit weird for him to have written Stargirl, based on what little I know about Gaiman… but yeah, it turns out I know nothing of Stardust D:
*locates book*
I am with you on Team-No-DiCaprio-Because-Of-Titanic-Related-Trauma, but that said….I actually enjoyed Inception. I rented it and watched it a little grudgingly, but had a very good time with it.
(I loved Inception but I was so uninterested in Di Caprio's character, and that's probably pretty unpopular, but I just kept going omg plz move on to the rest of this amazing cast plz. I watched it with a friend and was like, 'yeah bored by the mainpain' (it's Nolan, so hopefully that's not spoilery) and she was kind of miffed at me since she doesn't mind that sort of thing, I guess. But really, I think everyone else makes up for his character. And it's really fun visually and musically, and of course the plot is interesting.)
(There's an ad on the telly right now for that Kennedy's series but I keep getting distracted by it everytime it comes on because it's using music from 'Time')
ILU
Same!
Thanks! 😀
I did really like this episode. I am SO HAPPY that Amy chose Rory!
But, I just have to say this and it may be an unpopular opinion, but I find the fact that Amy intentionally killed herself AND HER UNBORN CHILD because Rory died to be very sad and… messed up. I understand that she was desperate for some way to get Rory back, but honestly, she didn't know for sure that that reality was the dream, she just wanted it to be the dream. As soon as she made clear her plan to kill herself I thought, "You won't even live for your child?" I think she even said something to the effect that with Rory dead there was nothing left for her.
I get the feeling that a lot of people see her suicide as tragically romantic. I can't see it that way. I see Amy.. really not even taking her own child's life into account. =/ Thank goodness it really was a dream..
Otherwise, good episode.
Good point, I never even thought about the baby … I think because I always believed the Leadworth reality to be the dream.
I think it shows the depth of Amy's grief and devastation, and the idea really is very tragic.
I thought the exact same thing. Not the sort of thing you should start promoting – that if you lose a loved one and are in the grips of depression, that you have nothing to live for and should kill yourself rather than live without them.
And wasn't the last thing that Rory said before he died "Look after our baby"? Instead of doing that, she killed it.
I have to say, I absolutely love this episode. But every time I see Amy drive the bus into the house, I cringe.
It would have been interesting if they played that angle, but Amy was adamant Leadworth was the dream all through the episode. And after Rory died, the depth of her grief meant she refused to doubt it. Saying 'she killed her baby' is twisting the situation.
I agree. At that point, she believed that the Leadworth scenario wasn't real. There was no baby as far as she was concerned.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought Amy explicitly says that she didn't really know which one was real even after she drove the bus into the house(?).
It seemed to me that the subtext of her conversation with Rory afterward was that she did it not because she was convinced that that world wasn't real, but because she needed to be in a world where Rory was still alive. Which would mean that on some level she still thought she was killing herself/her fetus, or at least thought that there was a pretty good chance that she was doing so.
I don't think it was suicide… she had to make a choice about what was real, and she made it. It could have been a tragic end for everyone, but one way or another she had to make a choice- NOT to kill herself or her unborn child, because that might all be a dream, and they were all freezing to death in another possible reality.
So IF this was a dream, Rory was dying in the real world, freezing to death. It's not so cut and dry as suicide or taking her child's life. If it were, I'd have trouble with the ep myself. She didn't know which was real (I think the doctor had already figured it out, or he'd not have allowed her to drive into a wall), and had to choose, and she chose to hope the reality with Rory alive (and in need of saving) was the real one.
Technically speaking- wouldn't the minute she decided that-that world was a dream- the unborn child would only exist as a dream too? I mean, the old people with aliens decided to stop coming after her and the Doctor when she decided it was the dream.
You're right, it IS very sad and messed up! Without Rory, nothing is real to Amy and she would rather die than live in a world that isn't real, including her baby.
THANK YOU. This is my major problem with this episode–along with the fact that the entire thing is giving Amy a choice between two men. (That's one reading. The other reading is that it's a choice between two lives, but the lives are both represented by men, and it all gets…murky.) Yes, yes, at that point she'd decided it was a dream world. But Amy says outright that she wasn't sure that Leadworth was the dream, and the ONLY justification she ever gives for deciding that is that Rory dies. I get that this is not a straightforward "killing yourself after a lover's death" scenario, but it toes the line of that scenario a little too closely for my taste. Loved ones die in the real world, too, and you have to live with it.
It makes me sad, too, because I want to love this episode. It has some great elements. But the overall picture of it puts me off too strongly.
My starting point for talking about Amy's Choice is actually Simon's Choice, because writer Simon Nye made a very interesting choice when he decided to write an entire episode as a dream – two dreams, in fact.
In The Writer's Tale, Russell T Davies wrote about his dislike for dream sequences. In fact, he went so far as to say he didn't believe that anything of dramatic merit ever happens in a dream sequence. Although he did qualify that, when he realised Steven Moffat was writing a sort of dream in Forest of the Dead. He said that he thought the fact that the Doctor was trying to get Donna out of the dream injected drama. And I think he had a point.
Now, speaking for myself, I've seen a lot of dream sequences in drama and most of the time I think they're pointless. In fact, with perfect timing, last night's episode of House was full of dream sequences and it's the first time I've been bored watching that show. Now, I don't want to turn Mark Watches Doctor Who into Nyssa Watches House. I just mention to illustrate a point. The problem with dream sequences, as a rule, is that no matter how dramatic the situation, no matter how scary or amazing the events portrayed, no matter how clever the symbolism, the script inevitably resolves the situation with 5 little words: `…and then they wake up.`
What makes Amy's Choice a brilliant success is that there is a *cost* to waking up.
DREAM LORD: If you die in the dream, you wake up in reality, all back to normal in no time. Ask me what happens if you die in reality.
RORY: What happens?
DREAM LORD: You die, stupid. That's why it's called reality.
Hidden in this brilliantly funny line is a very important truth about the difference between dream and reality. This story takes the inherent problem of a dream sequence and uses it to create the spine of the plot. Dream and reality…are you sure you can tell the difference? You might *think* you're in a dream…but are you willing to stake your life on it…literally?
And that, folks, is how you inject drama into a dream sequence.
Even though I called `they're both dreams` from the moment we got to the titles, that didn't matter. It's easy for me to say – it's not my life on the line if I guess wrong!
So, we have 2 worlds, 2 dreams, and they're very familiar from what we know about the characters involved.
Matt Smith hand gestures appreciation.
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Oh, now that is BEAUTIFUL.
I immediately fell in love with Matt's hands after watching that Confidential. <3 And it's funny how Moffat even referenced it in The End of Time: "Oooh, fingers… lots of fingers…" 😀
I could watch that interview forever.
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Why oh why was this Confidential not on the S5 box set? Even if cut down to only include the Matt section.
I actually fell in love with his fingers – and hands in TEH, when he traces the crack in Amelia's wall. All I could think was – ooh.. you can trace me anytime.
Yes, definitely. Piano players' fingers. Just… yeah. Mmm.
That is the gothiest that I have ever seen him.
Wiggly fingerssss. Got to love his expressive hands.
My mind just went to a very special little happy place. I think I'm going to stay there for awhile. And drool.
This is IMHO one of the top three Series 5 episodes, and one of the top 10 episodes of the whole NuWho. Not only it has a very different format from what we usually see on Who, it also features psychological analysis of the characters (quite deep for a children/family show…) and some beautiful character development.
And since other people have already described why this episode is so awesome, and much better than I could, I'll just stick to posting this amazing picture I've found:
<img src="http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/137/1/4/Amy_Pond_and_the_Poncho_Boys_by_YuukiHikari.jpg">
ROFL that's amazing.
LOL! I would totally buy their album!
Sounds like either a band or a superhero troop. Maybe they're both.
I'd buy their album AND get saved by them any day! 😀
They're a Peruvian folk band who do superheroing in their spare time! 😀
That is awesome!
Though am I the only one who thinks the Matt Smith looks less like him and more like Conan O'Brien?
So, we have 2 worlds, 2 dreams, and they're very familiar from what we know about the characters involved.
Rory dreams of a quiet life in a sleepy English village, in which he has an ordinary married life with Amy, expecting their first child. He's also a doctor, not a nurse. That's interesting. Now, nursing is not something you do because you can't make it as a doctor. It's an amazing profession in itself and not to be underestimated or undervalued. But does Rory actually wish he was a doctor…or is he just competing? It's perfectly clear that what he wants more than anything is Amy. But he's worried that Amy wants more than what he has to offer. He thinks he needs to be more `exciting` and so, in his dream, he has a medical degree…and a ponytail. But apart from those details, it's close enough to his reality to feel utterly convincing and real.
*cue birdsong and wibbly-wobbly soundy-woundy*
Running parallel to this, we have the Doctor's dream, which again is very like his reality. Following on from Rory's `you make people a danger to themselves` in the previous episode, he gets it right on the nose again here.
RORY: This is typical of you! An impossible sun, 20 minutes to save the day and you’re only one man who can help!
He's seen this before, of course, because it's basically the plot of The Eleventh Hour! It's excitement and danger and frantic and frenetic. It's Doctor Who.
Then there's Amy. She torn, divided. We've seen that throughout the series so far. And there are some telling exchanges here, like:
AMY: It can be the night before our wedding for as long as we want.
RORY: We have to grow up some time.
AMY: Yeah? Says who?
She's not ready to grow up. She's not ready to commit to a life with Rory, and life in the TARDIS is her escape from that. And yet she also defends the other life when she pretends the baby is coming, sending the Doctor into a panic.
AMY: This is my life and it just turned you white as a sheet, so don't ever call it boring again!
The Dream Lord picks at Amy's confusion, telling her she needs to sort out `her men` (`her boys`, as she put it at the end of Vampires) and choose.
AMY: I have chosen! Of course I've chosen!
<awkward pause>
AMY <to Rory>: It's you, stupid!
And she sort of taps him on the chest…just like the punch on the shoulder last episode.
She just can't do it, can she? She can't show him proper affection or even tell him how she feels without making a joke out of it. Despite what she says, the truth is she *hasn't* chosen.
It's not until Rory is killed right in front of her that Amy finally, really chooses. The moment the choice has been taken from her – or would have been if it were real. Amy's choice is to decide that her worst nightmare is just that – a nightmare. A dream.
AMY: Because if this is real then I don't want it!
She chooses to die because it's her only chance of seeing Rory again. But there's something else she says here that’s really interesting.
AMY: I didn't know until now. Really, I didn't. I love Rory, and I never told him.
Just think about that. They’ve been `together` for at least 2 years that we know about, probably more. She's engaged to Rory, so he must have proposed to her. (Since I can't imagine Amy making that move.) Also, in a throwaway line at the top of the previous episode, Rory phones Amy from his stag night
RORY: Because I haven't told you for 7 hours that I love you, which is a Scandal!
Even if we assume the `7 hours` is a bit of an exaggeration, it's clearly something he says a lot. And she's never said it back? Not once? And I think we can assume that means that she's never verbally expressed her feelings in any way at all, not just those `3 little words`. That's huge!
This idea is illustrated further at the very end, when Amy explains why Rory doesn't remember how they got out of the Leadworth dream by crashing the van.
AMY: Because you died – Mrs Poggit got you.
RORY: But how did you know it was a dream?
AMY: I didn't.
The implications of that slowly sink in and then…Amy hugs him. Not a slap or a punch on the arm, but a big, proper cuddle! Rory's reaction to such a small thing shows that this is a real watershed moment in their relationship. A simple hug, but a massive step forward.
Amy Choice is the very best example of how to make a dream story work. It's not something that can be used too often (and to be honest, I could have done without the psychic pollen) but it's one of my favourite Doctor Who stories ever…the stuff that dreams are made of.
And then they woke up.
AMY <to Rory>: It's you, stupid!
And she sort of taps him on the chest…just like the punch on the shoulder last episode.
Yeah, massive *facepalm* moment there. Amy, you poking him and calling him "stupid" into the bargain is NOT reassuring. If you want Rory to be less clingy, try being more affectionate! Except you can't, can you? That tap really IS your limit when it comes to affection. As I said before: it's so fucking tragic.
"Essentially the two worlds the Dream Lord offers are an accurate representation of the two lives Amy’s been living; one with Rory, after getting married and settling down; and one with the Doctor, disappearing into Time and Space, living the adventure she had been promised since she was eight years old."
Well we're also seeing it all through the prism of the darkest corners of the doctor's mind so I think it's also a way exagerrated version of how he imagines a dull domestic life being like and what he imagines happens to his companions when they leave him and grow old. Also of course how he views Rory.
Lol never mind I just read the first reply where you went there.
I haven't seen Inception yet, which seems to be a good thing when watching this episode.
I really liked this one for several reasons.
– Amy comes to realize that she really does love Rory. I think she was unsure before this happened.
– We get to see that Rory's dream is to be a husband and father. I love that he wants a baby.
– And the Doctor gets to see up close what Rory means to Amy. I think he was pretty clear on what Amy means to Rory. Rory has made that clear all along.
The ending is tough to figure out, even after repeated viewings. But I decided to let it go and enjoy some really good acting and a lovely story.
Is it awful that I was SO looking forward to your review for this ep?
It's one of my FAVORITES!
Thank you for taking the time to do an awesome review. <3
Awwwwww, thanks! <3 You're very welcome, I had a lot of fun writing it!
There is an absolutely lovely review that was done over on the doctor who lj comm about the literary breakdown of this episode, but I can't link it because the comm is CHOCK full of spoilers.
It went more in depth into the doctor being the teacher and guide instead of the love interest and all the things that brings up and causes to grow in his companions.
Maybe when you're done with this season. 🙂
Back to this episode, I love all the character development. Seriously.
Their relationships, individually, and together, are just… brilliant.
It seemed like such a clever idea, but I feel like the presence of the Dream Lord spoiled it. If he hadn't been there, it might have taken me longer to realise the twist to this episode. Like the Doctor said, the Dream Lord would have no power in the real world. As it was, I spent about 30 minutes yelling at them to FIGURE IT OUT ALREADY FOR GOD'S SAKE! It's no good if the Doctor isn't cleverer than me.
But yeah…this is more of Amy and Rory reminding me of me and my ex-fiance. *discomfort*
I think the doctor may have figured it out early on, just as he figured out who the Dream Lord was. But he was allowing Amy to figure it out.
I have nothing much more constructive to say than…..hands up if you cried when Rory died. ;3;/
Okay just about everything with Rory in the episode makes me tear up (I LOVE RORY SO MUCH IS THAT SO WRONG) but still. That scene. And the aftermath. And….yeah. Like a little girl.
I did. I literally cried out: "NOOOOOO RORYYYYYYYYY :'( :'( :'("
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Is it just me, or are my images not lasting very long?
They aren't, but I was blaming it on the crack.
…For a moment I thought you were talking about drugs and was trying to figure out a way to make that into a ROSE LOVED DRUGS joke… and then I realized what you were suggesting.
D: I don't want the crack to eat up the imagehosting sites! It means that people will clog up DeviantArt and start a flame war!
The first time I watched this episode was before I was a Whovian, and in fact still actively avoiding the show. However, I was at my friend’s house so while they all went to watch this I started playing Dungeons and Dragons Online while it went on in the background. So for a long time I associated the Eleventh Doctor with kobolds and sewers. Trufax.
It really is a wonderful episode, though. As I’m sure others have said, RTD feels that dream sequences can’t have any emotional weight- I completely disagree. Dream sequences allow us to look directly into the minds of the characters, a powerful tool in a medium. Not to mention, you can completely suspend logic and the laws of physics, allowing for things that can be scary, fantastical and down-right impossible, even by Doctor Who standards.
While Amy’s Choice might not have done anything overtly crazy with the ‘dream environment’, since both the concept of a ‘cold-star’ and ‘refugee-aliens living inside pensioners’ both seem like pretty normal Who plots, they did take advantage of it another way- to kill Rory. We get to see just how important he is to Amy, and more importantly, so does she. Over the course of the episode brushed off his boyfriend status, ran off the day before their wedding and attempted to snog and/or shag the Doctor. Here she realises that she really does want to live her life with him. I think that’s essential to her characterisation- realising that there is someone stable in her life, and she really truly can depend on. And seeing Pond’s abandonment issues, I can understand why that would be a hard time to accept.
We also get to see Rory thinking all this over- he’s not really used to travelling in the TARDIS, and he’s not comfortable with it either. He wants to live an ordinary, human life. Become a Doctor, have a kid, go to drama club, not be gallivanting around the universe. But he still does his best in both dreams to hold defend himself, his friends and the strangers. I think he’s starting to accept that maybe he can get a little bit of enjoyment out of adventure, too.
And the Doctor. Now this was interesting. We’ve always seen hints of the Doctor’s dark side, the fact that if he every stopped feeling fond of the universe, he could be truly frightening. We got to see this again, but this time it wasn’t something with grand schemes, like its been played with other times. This darker Doctor liked to mess with people’s mind, manipulate and dissect their thoughts- including his own. Making himself purposely weird to stand out, but maybe being a little insecure about his ‘tawdry quirks’. Having ‘friends’ that he abandons and never goes back to visit. But for me, the worst thing is when the Doctor says “only one person could hate me that much.” For at least five-hundred years, the Doctor has been forced to run and kill and betray, often towards his closest friends and entire species. Eleven has seemed to be much more immune to this than Nine or Ten were, but I think it’s just that he’s better at hiding it.
I don’t think the Dream Lord was pure evil, though. For example, when he seduces Amy. Ignore the fact that this is unbelievably creepy on soooo many levels, and the fact that the Doctor must like the idea just a little bit, I think the whole scenario seemed to be formatted to help Amy and Rory. He wanted to put them together, to realise that the Doctor isn’t so wonderful and they should be happy with each other.
…and, er, I can’t think of an interesting way to end this comment, so I’ll go with the classic:
NEVER PREPARED
This is a wonderful, insightful review. <3 So much WORD.
I'm so surprised to see so much love for this episode because I found it unbearably boring when it first aired… I might have to give it another chance now. Maybe I was having a bad day? 🙂
Okay, I bit the bullet and made gifs of my two moments, because they're just so great.
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BASICALLY
YOU RULE
😀
Trufax!
So much love for Rory in this episode. I started wibbling when he leaned over the crib and morosely toyed with the mobile danglies as he tried to convince himself that his dream-life wasn't the real one.
Also love how the roses hanging over the porch on the cottage get him in the eye/face as he's first running inside the house. Already the dream-world conspires against him.
It's great to see a point of human biology (human pregnancy) that the Doctor is so effing clueless about. I died at "…are you PREGNANT?" <3 Captain Obvious.
Dream Lord in his Don Juan outfit — "ANYTHING could happen!" NEGATORY. NO. NO IT COULD NOT. AUGH.
I'm really loving the music they use in Confidential, and Enter Sandman for Toby Jones just confirmed it.
I think we're basically saying the same thing, LOL. We don't actually know the Dream Lord's intentions (if he had any) so it could have worked either way or he was both a foil to the Doctor and a way to prove to Amy who was the right choice.
am i allowed to answer the vegetarian question? cause its old who and its very small time, but it does pertain to an episode he's never seen (and with luck never will)
I think not, just to be on the safe side. What if Mark decides to watch that episode later, and you just killed a punchline or something? D:>
This episode always leaves me thinking:
WHAT IF THE DOCTOR HADN'T KNOWN THAT THE 'COLD STAR' WORLD WAS ALSO A DREAM???
Would they have just kept dreaming for ages until the psychic pollen had disintegrated?
Or would they have faced further challenges from the Dreamlord?
Or would they have died?
P.s. I'm already building up a collection of gifs specifically for the series finale… don't judge me.
…I just… I kind of… oh… oohhhh myyy gooodddddd DO NOT WAAAAANT.
Must write sequel to this episode where they don't find out. It will take place in TARDIS rooms and there will be a vineyard and a laundry room in the same place.
(Well, I'll actually probably not get around to actually writing it, but imagine someone writing it.)
I like the twist that both of the realities are dreams, but I feel it should have been revealed differently. Like, maybe the Dream Lord could’ve congratulated them on guessing correctly, and then just left…with them still hurtling toward the burning ice star. And THEN the Doctor could’ve had the revelation that that “reality”was also a dream. IDK, it would’ve just worked better tension-wise for me. I just feel like as it is the conflict is resolved very strangely.
1st – I love this episode because it's such a mind-screw.
2nd – AMY POND IS FABULOUS.
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3rd – Rory is adorable when Amy's just hugging him and not saying anything, and he's going "Oh..this is nice. I am liking this. Did I say something? Could you tell me what it was?"
Other thoughts- I'd said yesterday how Rory and Amy are flipped in terms of some tropes that are usually applied to certain genders. This episode has another example. Instead of Amy, it's Rory who has the dream of settling down and starting a family.
And yes! Karen's acting in the scene Rory dissolves into dust is amazing. I seriously to do not get why some people have said that-that was bad acting. Unless they've forgotten what shock can sometimes look like. It's not always going to look like Rose hammering against a wall and crying, people. And I think it's actually more powerful, and more characteristic of Amy to just kind of look like she's shut down instead of start crying immediately.
And there's where a fantastic post I remember reading on LJ where someone had summed up where Amy chooses the other world, instead of the Leadworth dream world. She chooses the 'fantasy' world so that she can also have her 'reality'. Which, I'm going to be shallow now and go 'YAY, OT3'! xD
As for the Dream Lord- he's pretty much all of the Doctor's self-hatred and darkness put into a single manifestation. Considering how much he goes after the Doctor verbally. And then there's Eleven's thing of "The only person who could hate me more in the universe than him is myself." And his disturbing comment when they're all sitting on the bench, "So what do you do around here to stave off the… self harm?" And Amy asking, at the end, "All that stuff he said about you. You really don't believe that, do you?" and he just distracts her by telling her that Rory's about to have a question her.
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And yes! Karen's acting in the scene Rory dissolves into dust is amazing. I seriously to do not get why some people have said that-that was bad acting. Unless they've forgotten what shock can sometimes look like. It's not always going to look like Rose hammering against a wall and crying, people. And I think it's actually more powerful, and more characteristic of Amy to just kind of look like she's shut down instead of start crying immediately.
THIS.
That macro is a thing of beauty. Dark, disturbing, hilarious beauty. 😀
That macro makes me feel bad for Eleven. xD
Me too. XD
That macro. I'm dying. DYING.
"And yes! Karen's acting in the scene Rory dissolves into dust is amazing. I seriously to do not get why some people have said that-that was bad acting. Unless they've forgotten what shock can sometimes look like. It's not always going to look like Rose hammering against a wall and crying, people. And I think it's actually more powerful, and more characteristic of Amy to just kind of look like she's shut down instead of start crying immediately. "
I agree with this so very, very much.
Until right now, I had no idea that people thought that was bad acting. It always makes me break inside because it's so raw and so real. That's one of my very favourite scenes of this whole series because that grief is so true and painful to watch.
It really is so good. Heartbreak doesn't necessarily need to be accompanied by tears or wailing or gnashing of teeth. I love how Karen chose to portray that shock and grief in the way she did.
I can finally post this vid! It's one of my favorites. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdpQaNXiioc
I think the other times they weren't expecting it and didn't have enough time to even attempt to stay awake. Another theory is that the Dream Lord is being a douche and wants to see the Doctor run instead of being eaten in his sleep like a pansy.
"Dream Lord is being a douche and wants to see the Doctor run instead of being eaten in his sleep like a pansy."
Good enough for me!
Here's how I see it: the Dream Lord is a manifestation of everything the Doctor hates about himself, he also represents what the Doctor fears he could become, what he did briefly become in the last days of his tenth regeneration. The Doctor is afraid of the beast inside him, "the beast below", as he should be, given his previous trail of destruction.
I’m still not sure why the Eknodine chose to hide in the elderly, though. No one would suspect?
Because Upper Leadworth wasn't Rory's dream so much as the Doctor's nightmare. Both scenarios come from his own fears: in one, the TARDIS is dead, his companions are going to die of hypothermia and he is powerless to stop that; in the other, he is surrounded by people who are much older than they look and have monsters hiding inside them (gee, why does that sound familiar?), Amy is pregnant and living a "boring" life of domesticity. Then Rory dies and she turns to the Doctor and says "What is the point of you?" Wow, if the Doctor's companion losing faith in him isn't his worst nightmare, I don't know what is!
Aside from exploring the Doctor's id, this episode also spells out just why Rory is important to Amy, why she hasn't run off to the bright lights of Gloucester (*snort*) or Bristol. "If this is real life, I don't want it!" she says after watching her husband dissolve into dust. And when the Doctor reminds her before their suicide attempt that this could be the real world, she responds with the most blatant statement possible: "It can't be. Rory isn't here." (emphasis mine) If you'd been told, over and over, that the man you met in your garden when you were seven wasn't real, no matter how much you fought, in the end you'd end up believing that you can't distinguish between fantasy and reality. What do you do when you can't trust that what you're seeing is real? You rely on someone else. And Rory is that someone. He grounds Amy, he helps her to believe that things are real. Without him, there is no one to validate her experience and so she has no qualms about killing herself and the Doctor. Without Rory, everything is make believe, everything is unreal.
"What do you do when you can't trust that what you're seeing is real? You rely on someone else. And Rory is that someone. He grounds Amy, he helps her to believe that things are real. Without him, there is no one to validate her experience and so she has no qualms about killing herself and the Doctor. Without Rory, everything is make believe, everything is unreal. "
<3
Siriusly, i want to marry you right now.
Seconding. That was an amazing conclusion.
Let's get married on the astral plane! 😀
THIS to all of your last paragraph.
The amount of importance this episode shows that Rory holds for Amy is why I can't get into fanfics with the pairing of Amy/11 (which, people can ship who they want to ship, I'm a multi-shipper myself) where the person says that the fic takes place after this episode, and then they write that Amy decides that choosing Rory was a mistake.
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That being said, if they place the story before 'Amy's Choice' I'd be more willing to continue on reading the fic. I know that I've got some Amy/11 fics bookmarked in my LJ memories. Though they're practically hidden by a lot of 11/Amy/Rory pairing fics. xP
Yeah, I know. No matter how much fun 11/Amy might be, Amy NEEDS Rory. Which is why I ship this OT3 like never before.
Which is why I ship this OT3 like never before.
I know it'd practically be hoping for too much, but seriously- there needs to be a puppy-pile with these three. (And I said puppy-pile because the other idea is more…well, let's just say it wouldn't be airing on television when little kids are up. xP)
Haha, puppy pile! I think the Comic Relief episodes are as close as we'll get to naughty OT3 antics. 😀
I looooooooooooooooove this review. <3
Thank you!
FANTASTIC analysis! I applaud you, sir (or madam… delete whichever's inappropriate 😛 ).
It's 'madam', and thank you! 🙂
If you'd been told, over and over, that the man you met in your garden when you were seven wasn't real, no matter how much you fought, in the end you'd end up believing that you can't distinguish between fantasy and reality. What do you do when you can't trust that what you're seeing is real? You rely on someone else. And Rory is that someone. He grounds Amy, he helps her to believe that things are real. Without him, there is no one to validate her experience and so she has no qualms about killing herself and the Doctor. Without Rory, everything is make believe, everything is unreal.
THIS. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. I love this take on the episode!
I would agree with others, Mark, and suggest you re-watch this one if you have the time. It's definitely more layered than Vampires of Venice, so if you're not prepared for it ( 😉 and I assume you weren't!), some of the stuff might go over your head on the first viewing.
It's interesting actually, I think a lot of this season benefits from re-watching. I was saddened by your lack of enthusiasm for the kinda-bad-but-DALEKS-SERVING-TEA Victory of the Daleks and the more middling but also character-developing Vampires of Venice- but as I said in the comments for Victory of the Daleks, your reactions are still pretty true to re-living it the first time. Usually that's a good thing- you capture the excitement and enthusiasm going in- but maybe sometimes it means you're lacking the understanding and affection we've gathered for an episode over time. This is fair enough, and just an observation, and don't worry I am going to
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(Damn the Eleven one for being a spoiler! But I'll deal with that too.)
That said, I AM GLAD YOU ENJOYED THIS EPISODE, I ENJOYED IT TOO.
I'm probably not going to have a lot to say that I didn't say yesterday, which is OKAY. I love love love this TARDIS team– They're all so good with comedy moments, but can they ever bring the drama, and their chemistry together is amazing. I was loling right off the bat, when Rory bumps into the overhanging foliage on the way to get to a yelling Amy, and then about 30 minutes later I was tearing up as Amy and the Doctor conversed over his ashes. This episode is really tightly scripted and hits every emotional beat on the dot. I will say menacing mouths are getting to be a bit old, but as they are dream-aliens I am inclined to forgive, because they're probably coming from what the TARDIS trio has already known.
I addressed yesterday the fact that Eleven doesn't really tend to go for the testosterone-induced games of one-upping. At first glance this episode may be just that and I got it completely wrong, but I'm still thinking while the Doctor isn't wholly innocent here (after all, his dark side did try to woo Amy with creepiness), I'm going to stand by what I said: he's a lot less guilty than his previous incarnation. He is competing for Amy's affection, sure, but I don't really think it's about romantic or sexual feelings. After a long time as Ten going it alone, the Doctor finally makes a friend again. He's formed a bond with Amy over the first five episodes, gotten close to her in a way he hasn't since Donna. For the last three series, he's mostly stuck to the one-companion formula minus a couple of one-off adventures. He's used to making friends on a one-on-one basis here, as much as at this point he's used to making friends at all. As of right now, Amy is his best friend and Rory is just barely more than an acquaintance. The group dynamics haven't settled yet. Until he gets to know Rory better, it's like when a friend invites you along with them, but also invites one of their other friends from an entirely different social circle. Half the time or more (depending on those involved), it's not going to go smoothly, and you're going to end up competing over your mutual friend's attention. Add into the equation that Rory is dealing with his own insecurities, and not well, and you have the team as it is for the majority of this episode. It may look like dick-measuring or romantic competition, but things among this trio are not that simple.
I also want to say Toby Jones acted the hell out of a well-written role. This is why you must rewatch: knowing that the Dreamlord is an aspect of the Doctor, pay attention to his dialogue and how he delivers it. Now imagine Matt Smith in the role. It isn't exactly the same, because that would be boring and a giveaway, but it isn't too far off the choices I see him making. Bravo to everyone involved!
I love this comment so much. <3
I love that this is never answered
I was always under the impression that the Dream Lord was just his subconscious. This is his fear that he must watch played out to a degree – in his own way, he does love and need Amy Pond. He needs to feel amazing and have his universe be the most amazing thing to happen to a person. So, the Dream Lord creates a situation where the companion chooses Rory over the Doctor essentially.
Most importantly, the Dream Lord is a representation of the Doctor's self-hatred and self-loathing that makes him all the more fascinating to watch.
This is a brilliant analysis of the episode. I love stories that play with dreams (ahah, HUGE Sandman fan here), but for some reason this one didn't grab me immediately so I'd written it off as Doctor Who Does A More Classic Sci Fi. But the dream analysis and all the things about Amy and basically EVERYTHING are all spot on.
I AM SO LATE! Curse you, work! Though I did get to make a monster truck cake, which ended up being a lot of fun, so there is that. Anywho…
I love this episode so much. SO MUCH.
I love the humor- textually, in all of the absurd situations the characters find themselves in, in the dialogue and the sheer physicality of the acting. I love that this episode puts my heart through the wringer with Rory's death and Amy's response. Karen and Matt act the hell out of that scene (well, the whole episode, esp. when you throw in Arthur), and I don't care if it wasn't reality. It was real for Amy. Those emotions she felt- that sense of loss and devastation- were rooted in her traumatic history. Rory was the one who had always been there, through the loss of her parents, all the psychiatrists, and alien encounters. The loss of that constancy forced Amy to really look at herself and face everything that she had been running from and pushing away. Her response to Rory's death and the expression of love that followed wasn't some sudden and out of the blue development. Rather, it was the natural outcome of this emotional reckoning. Their awakening on the frozen TARDIS and reunion was one of my favorite scenes in the entirety of Doctor Who. (Yeah, I ship them like crazy :D)
<img src="http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgiscsRvfS1qb9v0po1_500.png">
How much do I love that the show doesn't punish Amy for wanting both worlds, but choosing Rory over the Doctor? She is allowed to be complex, and it is wonderful.
Other people have already discussed what this episode reveals about the Doctor, so I don't really need to get into that, but I have to say that I really appreciate how deeply we delved into his psyche. It's kind of crazy that this family show went to such dark and depressing mental places. MATT SMITH'S FACE! It expresses emotion so well, self-loathing chief among them in this episode. Also, TOBY JONES IS AMAZING. The reveal that the Dream Lord is the Doctor's dark side makes this episode even more interesting on rewatch. ILIT. I honestly don't mind the whole space pollen explanation. Even if truly is just that, this episode was the most satisfying exploration of that sci-fi trope that I've ever seen. I definitely got the impression from the Doctor's behavior though, that it was just something he was making up for Amy and Rory's sake and that this Dream Lord could return.
Also, this episode, once again is beautiful and has an AMAZING score. The birdsong combined with the music sets the eerie tone perfectly.
Since this is towards the end of the post, I don't feel bad about posting random gifs, so here!
Lol, Amy's Boys
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/2sacoxy.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/2hzi81w.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I've never been pregnant, but Karen seems to do a convincing job of showing discomfort.
<img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/fvd552.jpg">
Rory does not approve!
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Oh Doctor. 🙁
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All in all, fantastic episode.
Upvoted for a GREAT choice of GIFs! 🙂
I don't have enough upvotes. 🙁 Woe! For I love this, and am really glad you made it! Plus, awesome gifs!
Am I the only one who thinks Rory looks like the Master (Simm version) in the second to last gif?
That last clip you have– he's looking in the rear view mirror. I didn't think of the significance of that until I saw the clip. The Dreamlord really IS in the rear view mirror, isn't he? The doctor is looking back on what he's done and been. Others probably picked this up immediately but I'm thick.
OK, I love this episode for a TON of reasons which can be broken down simply into:
The Amy/Rory character development. Basically, this episode is about showing Amy that the split between fairy-tale adventure (represented by the Doctor) and love and stability (represented by Rory), presented here as a "choice," is actually a false dichotomy. This is well represented by Rory dying in the world that Rory himself had wanted to be real, the one with marriage and babies and tragic tragic ponytails; in order for Amy to "choose Rory" she also in effect winds up choosing life on the TARDIS. There is absolutely no reason Amy can't have both. Amy can love Rory, AND she can love the Doctor, and they don't have to come into conflict.
The Dream Lord. When I first watched through S5 I thought it was pretty angst-free, but on rewatch, I'm finding alllllll the angst. The Doctor's subconscious is so incredibly cruel to him! It's the sort of thing I wish we could see more of. I know we criticise the show/other characters for not taking the Doctor to task often enough, but I wonder if anyone could be harder on the Doctor than he is on himself.
It makes me feel tremendously sad for the Doctor, but it also feels appropriate. After all, as we learnt from the Waters of Mars, if the Doctor doesn't check himself…. who will?
Basically this episode is awesome and I can't think of ANYTHING wrong with it. except the possibility that this hallucinatory pollen thing makes rather a few fics more plausible….
<.<
>.>
^_^
It makes me feel tremendously sad for the Doctor, but it also feels appropriate. After all, as we learnt from the Waters of Mars, if the Doctor doesn't check himself…. who will?
Exactly. I love this whole comment, but I'm particularly nodding in agreement here. I think he's still feeling the effects of "Time Lord Victorious", he just does a good job of hiding it. Until that pollen exposes his self-hatred for all to see.
‘There’s something that doesn’t make sense. Let’s go and poke it with a stick.’
The magic of Doctor Who summed up in one line. 😀
Here's a wonderful music video that focuses on the Doctor's feelings of guilt in this episode and his reasons for feeling this way — it's mostly clips from this episode, but it includes bits from Family of Blood and Waters of Mars, as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCzAoMyeEco
Wow… excellent vid, and definitely shows why I liked this episode.
Coupla things (full disclosure I did not make these, they have been sitting in my gif/macro folder for ages, etc, etc):
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/2ql9v2t.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/j67xc3.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
LOL! I love the second one! It's so true now that I realise that…
That second marco… oh, bless.
I thought the whole bit where the Dream Lord basically said he'd seen inside her dreams and knew about her Eleven fantasies was bound to be awkward after the fact as well. I MEAN, HE'S BEEN WATCHING HER DREAMS ABOUT HIM! LOL!
So late to the party, that I'm pretty sure it's just me and the empty beer bottles that are still here. But I was out last night at a friends where we watched The Painted Veil in which… THE DREAM LORD HAS A ROLE. LOL. I'd totally forgotten he was in that movie.
Um, and when I got home, my computer had frozen and the word doc that I had open in which I typed up wasn't able to be recovered, so… I don't really want to recreate that. So this is going to be a much more disjointed collection than normal.
In short this is one of my favorite episodes of series 5, mostly because it's the closest we've gotten to Time Lord Angst so far in series 5. I knew that Leadworth at least was a dram from the very beginning, the musical cues were just too unreal to be anything except for a dream. But I WAS shocked that both scenarios were dreams, although it does definite make sense in retrospect.
Anyway, I ADORE the fact that the Dream Lord is the Doctor's subconsciousness because it basically means that the villain of the episode is the Doctor's personified self-loathing who spends the whole time fucking with him (and Amy). I mean, just look at some of the things that the Doctor and the Dream Lord say in this episode.
Doctor: There's only on person in the universe who hates me as much as you do.
SEE? THE DOTOR'S INNER SELF-HATRED.
Dream Lord: If you had any more tawdry quirks, you could open up a tawdry quirk shop.
Dream Lord: Friends? Is that the right word for the people you acquire? Friends are people you stay in touch with. Your friends never see you again once they've grown up.
YEEEEES. THERE IS EVEN SOME COMPANION ANGST. I LOVE THIS EPISODE.
So yeah, I love this episode just because we FINALLY get some angst. lol. I love angst.
I also like to think that the Doctor can relate to Amy essentially wanting to off herself after Rory dies because welll… he pretty much did that after losing Rose in "The Runaway Bride", and again with the whole "kill me!" thing in the New York Dalek story.
I do think that the Dream Lord/Doctor sets up a false dichotomy. Growing up doesn't have to mean "married and pregnant". And I have to wonder if the whole Leadworth stuff is the Doctor/Dream Lord doing some major projecting on to Rory because he's the one who created the dreams, right?
I'm right there with you at thrilling to the sound of angst. Ah, I am such a sadistic television viewer!
Yeah, I got the feeling that the Doctor was definitely projecting onto Rory here.
Interesting observations, Karen! Especially about the timelord projecting stuff. Is that the doctor's view of Rory, and thus of family live (that it's boring)? I completely agree about this one being a fave because of the Time Lord Angst. If I have one problem with this series it's that we're not seeing too much of that in the Doctor… and while the past series might have gone overboard on angst sometimes, after his end as Ten he must still have some! And this ep showed a very logical progression from Ten to 11 with the sort of fear he has about himself. Good stuff! I love psychological drama and this was that, though certainly not only that.
Basically, as I saw it, The Dream Lord was…sort of The Doctor's side of himself that he didn't like. His insecurities, his arrogance, his darker side, that side of us we all have that critisizes ourselves and mocks ourselves. The side that we hide and control because we are human. He was having to look at himself at the darkest.
The part that BROKE MY HEART (besides the whole Amy/Rory thing) and that sort of made me understand this, was when Eleven says "I know who you are, cause no one in the universe hates me as much as you do." Himself. No one hates him as much as himself. </3 So sad…really broke my heart. But yes, I like this episode, and those are just my thoughts, I do hope you read this! xoxo
Watch Trial of a Time Lord. Additional statements on this topic have been self-censored.
FAVORITE. DOCTOR. WHO. EPISODE. EVER.
Seriously, I could go on and on about how much I love this episode. It is just so deliciously meta. Obviously because of that, you couldn't do it every week, but this time it was just so spot on about the Doctor, what traveling with the Doctor is like, what companions mean to him, etc. SO PERFECT!
YAY! Finally on this season's chapter I love. I should've put the word that for me describes this chapter: Ponytail! xD I honestly don't know why they think it's worth putting that detail on the story or why would anyone think it's nice, but it ends up describing the whole thing much better than the pregnancy: Absurdity!
So yes, I love this episode because I love the Dream Lord and I want to see him again, pretty pleeeaaaaseee! *whiny voice* Time travel and Dream travel, all together should make such a lovely story for anything.
Btw, good luck with your trip! I hope you're having a really productive time. Too bad about the liveblog, though. Just when I finally catch up with the series, nobody's there. Oh well, see you in the next review and when you return. 🙂
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