In the thirteenth and final episode of the second series of Doctor Who, the Doctor faces a war between the Daleks and the Cybermen. But will he defeat them if it involves an unbearable sacrifice? If you’re intrigued, then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
It’s been an ongoing difficulty of mine to properly articulate why I like Rose Tyler so much, particularly because as this show has gone on, she’s proven to be not all-that-likable after all. She is uncomfortably selfish, is determined to interject herself into everything, regardless of knowledge and experience, and will often times do things without the slightest thought to what those actions will do to those around her.
I have waded into the comments on my reviews for this show and I’ve seen a lot of you express distaste for the Doctor’s first companion in the revival series and I’ve refrained from ever debating the issue with any of you. I understand it. I get it. She isn’t really the most likable person on television. Who am I to tell you who to enjoy, especially in the realm of fictional narratives?
It’s sad that it took “Doomsday†to finally trigger a coherent reason why I am so drawn to this character, gigantic flaws and all, but now I finally know:
Rose Tyler and myself are alone.
I don’t intend for that statement to be a hyperbolic, dramatic sentiment of fleeting sadness. Obviously, there are people in my life who I am close with, I have a semblance of a normal family these days, and I’ve had a boyfriend or two in my years. It’s all to an extent, though, and it’s always been very difficult for me to explain this to anyone.
I’ll start by referencing something I spoke about briefly during one of my Mark Watches ‘Firefly’ reviews because it’s a great anchor to start at. My atheism mostly started out as an instantaneous rebellion against the God I was raised with, and then the God who abandoned me when I sought him/her/it out in my teens. It was the only way I knew how to express the absurd emptiness I felt inside of me, and it was only years later, after a lot of reading and talking with many people, that I felt I was able to pin down a sense of cosmic loneliness as the reason for my struggle against a deity. The label “atheist†worked for me, as it does for others, because I knew that it was nothing but a lie to say that there was something else out there in the universe, at least for me.
That’s obviously a very personal view at the macro sense of the universe, but I’ve refrained for many years discussing how that relates to me in the micro sense of the word. I am not just lonely. I am alone.
I generally don’t share this with people because most will quickly try to point out and erase this sensation as quickly as possible.
“But Mark, we’ve been friends for years. Am I not good enough?â€
“Surely you’ve been close with at least one person, right?â€
“You don’t even feel close with your brother or your mom?â€
“Mark, if you felt that way, why would you stay with a boyfriend for three years?â€
I suppose that, on the surface, they’re all valid points. I’m not alone in the physical sense all that often, but for any of you who have dealt with depression, loneliness, and (I’ll get to how this relates) abuse, you too understand that being alone is almost never a physical state. You can have thousands of people around you and still sense that you’re standing in an arid desert, devoid of the human interaction that seems to come so easily to everyone else.
I first became aware that something was different with me after I moved from Boise, Idaho down to Riverside, CA. In Boise, my brother and I were the only dark-skinned kids in our classes and only two of a very tiny handful of people who weren’t white in the entire school. I was made aware of this state even more aggressively when I moved to a city that was NOT overwhelmingly white and now, my brother and I stuck out like sore thumbs. We were students who looked like everyone else, but we were the only ones who didn’t speak Spanish. And we were treated as outcasts for this.
This pattern continued for me through all of my public schooling, through my years in college, and for a few years after that. It seemed easy for me to simply place the blame on other people and ignore the fact that there was something at work deep inside me that made me feel such a glaring disconnect from the people I would meet or the people I would see every day of my life. (Can we just call this Speshul Snowflake Disease? Because I most certainly had it there for a while.)
It’s not an issue of being different because I’m not at all that different from most people. It’s an issue of love, affection, and the disconnect that occurs in my brain when I experience these things.
I’d like to think that Mark Reads Harry Potter helped to free a lot of what has happened to me from the pain it’s been causing me for years. I believe that, even at a young age, I was always a person who was filled with an overflowing amount of love and I believed that I could give it to anyone, that I could care for people and make them happy. Over the years, this has manifested in rather obvious ways, such as my constant desire to do nice things for people, even if it is at direct expense to my own well-being, or to seek out affection from people (again) even if it is at direct expense to my own well-being. I crave affection and praise all the time and criticism and negativity can actually trigger depression. Yes, it is literally that extreme sometimes and there’s nothing I wish more some days that my brain would just work and not associate these things with each other.
But I know it’s not my fault and that’s the real important thing about this. I know that my affinity for affection was only amplified by the abuse and bullying I experienced growing up, that my need for affection was only increased as I was exponentially denied it for so long. Perhaps that’s even the reason why I feel this way. I think I’m ok saying that.
I am alone. At all times, in all places, in all situations. This is not hyperbole. When I am having a conversation with you, no matter who you are, I feel that I have no real, genuine connection to you. I feel like you have experienced a world I will never come to learn or one I was never given. It’s not that your life is better than mine or that mine is better than yours. When I see people who get along and understand everything there is to know about each other, I know that I have never felt that. When I see people talk to each other naturally, with things in common, I know that, at best, I’m merely pretending. I never quite feel real.
It manifests itself in many ways and in many groups of people. Even after spending years with them, I never felt that I fit in with my band. Or my coworkers. Or my family. Or my close circle of friends. I’m easily triggered by things and reminded of my childhood, so in every day conversations, I’ve learned to suppress the haunting feelings of despair and physical pain that can come up by someone merely saying a word or reminding me of a show I once watched or a song I just heard. It’s almost as if there is a second conversation happening inside of me simultaneous to what is happening outside of me.
It honestly took me writing my reviews for Harry Potter for me to even be able to talk about this, but being abused and bullied ruined me. I don’t think I’ll ever revert back to the kid I was before any of that happened.
This is not to say I have not progressed since I was a teenager and, actually, I’ve improved a lot since this sensation first became apparent. It also directly relates to Doctor Who. I’ve been in a long relationship and while I certainly felt alone the entire time, I got REALLY close to that feeling finally going away. It didn’t, but it was the first time I felt it subside in my life.
I remember the feeling when I ran away from home back when I was 16. Or the day I started college. Or the first day in my apartment in Silverlake, or the day I moved to Oakland or stepping into The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Those were good days, freeing days, days I felt that maybe I had a hope of experiencing life in a more normal way.
Fuck, I hate using that word. Normal. But I don’t know how else to express it. I want it and I crave and I don’t know how else to change it. So, instead, I’ve simply accepted it. I was a loner as a kid and I’ve come to truly embrace it because I’m not sure it will ever go away.
There’s a moment in “Doomsday†that struck me with a visceral power: Rose Tyler just got taken to the parallel universe by Pete and she rests against the wall that once held the bridge, foolishly hoping that maybe the Doctor can sense that she’s on the other side. And maybe he actually can, as he lingers on his side of the void. Devastated, Rose begins to cry harder and then the Doctor walks away and FLOODWORKS FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
I understand that Rose is flawed and I won’t argue with that, but there’s a part of me that will always be able to empathize with Rose’s frantic desire to feel like she belongs, to feel that there’s someone out there who can take away her sense of loneliness and boredom. It took me two full series to understand it, but now I know why she was willing to give up her mother and her boyfriend to be with the Doctor: he made her feel less alone.
THOUGHTS
- Way more people died in this episode than I expected, especially Yvonne Hartman. I knew that Rose was on her wait out and I actually believed that Jackie was going to be converted to a Cyberman. AGAIN.
- Hmmm, yet another show that demonstrates that traveling in between parallel universes can actually cause physical damage to them. HMMM.
- “You are superior in only one respect.†“What is that?†“You are better at dying.†;DSAJ;ASDFJ;ADSFDSLFK COULD DALEKS ALWAYS BE SO WITTY.
- “Daleks have no concept of elegance!†“This is obvious.†JASD;FHASDFKLJFSD ADFKLS;
- “Can you see anything that can tell us where you are? Anything at all?†“OOH! A FIRE EXTINGUISHER!â€
- The Genesis Ark was a DALEK PRISON. Holy god, could never have guessed this.
- Ok, look, I was all SRS BSNS in this post, but now time to mock myself: I totally cried for TWENTY MINUTE STRAIGHT during this episode. Actually, this is an accurate depiction of my viewing experience during “Doomsdayâ€:
- Yeah, I started to lose it when the Doctor threw that yellow button thing over her head and pressed it, sending her back with Alternate Pete and Mickey. Then the lump in my throat starting hurting when Rose slipped into the void and Pete saved her. Then I totally lost it when the Doctor walked away from the wall.
- The thing is (WHY AM I SEPARATING THESE WITH BULLET POINTS), this episode’s ending could have been unbearable and campy as hell, but the scene in Bad Wolf Bay was HEARTBREAKING. Oh my god, FULL ON WATERFALL.
- THE DOCTOR DISAPPEARED BEFORE HE COULD TELL ROSE HOW HE FELT. I have now decided I cannot deal with David Tennant crying. I cannot. Man, what a moment.
- WHAT THE FUCK. WHY IS CATHERINE TATE ON THE TARDIS???? Is she the Doctor’s next companion???? Oh my god.
- All in all, one of the best-executed episodes of the entire series. SRSLY.
Ok, so I’m watching the next Christmas special, “The Runaway Bride.” After that, it’s time for an episode of classic Who! I foolishly forgot to include a poll this time around, so I randomly chose The Three Doctors serial, which is available on Netflix Instant. The review for that will go up on Wednesday, and then I’ll start series three!
YAY DOCTOR WHO
Rose is kind of a polarizing topic in most of Doctor Who fandom. A lot of that is due to the fact that many people also don't really like RTD, and she's very much his personal Mary Sue at times.
Personally, at times I find her very wonderful and real, and at times I get frustrated with how RTD uses her. She's not necessarily a character I can connect to, but I know she's one most people can, and I appreciate that. I've never considered the idea of her being so overwhelming lonely before – Rose's story was never one I was able to take at more than face value, her being in love with him madly – but it's certainly an interesting one. New light on her! 😀
I'm really enjoying following you watching through Doctor Who, and oh man, I think Doomsday made everybody cry. 😛
Now that you have finished the first two seasons I can finally share this wonderful Doctor and Rose video that was made when season 2 ended. It's to If I Ever Leave This World Alive by Flogging Molly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TamOrADrhwc
I'm not even going to click on that link, because I know that song (yay FM!) and that plus this episode will just bring the waterworks all over again.
Seriously, this episode completely wrecked me. I'm another Rose lover, and damnit, Mark, if your skills of observation didn't reveal why. I can't exactly relate to feeling completely alone (I am close with my significant other and my family), but outside of those familial-bond type relationships, I just always feel… lacking. Like I'm always on the outside, looking in. Like I can't understand. I want something bigger.
I had no clue going into this episode how it was going to turn out. I kept thinking they HAD to find a way for Rose not to REALLY die, right? There had to be something! But then I saw the end and it was all wretched tears and NO NO NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT OH GOD THE PAIN IN MY HEART.
But really, it's perfect. Because what else could they do, short of literally killing her, to keep her from her Doctor? Nothing.
OH GOD BRB GOING TO GO CRY AGAIN
In some ways, I think what they did is more painful than her actually dying. If Rose were dead, the Doctor would at least know her fate. But with her being alive but trapped in Pete's World, he'll never know how she is. Is she fine, making a new life for herself? Has she been captured, help prisoner and tortured by some Evil Being? Something in between those two extremes? He'll never know for sure, and of course Rose will also never know the Doctor's fate. And not knowing and wondering/worrying can certainly be worse than knowing.
I hope you all can forgive me for this probably stupid question, but I first saw "Doomsday" a couple of months ago, and I've been holding this question inside ever since, waiting for someone else who has recently seen the episode to answer it.
In that devastating scene on the beach, Rose finally verbalizes her feelings for the Doctor and tells him she loves him. His next line is something along the line of "Quite right, too." To my American ears, this line makes little sense in its context — it sounds like he's saying "Well, of course you love me!" Obviously that wasn't the writer's intent (and if it were, it'd be even more arrogant than Han Solo's reply of "I know" to Leia's declaration of love!).
So to those of you who understand British English better than I do, what does "quite right" mean in this context? Is it "Yes, you are quite right to tell me how you feel, since we'll never see each other again, and now I'll do the same"? Is it supposed to mean something else entirely?
Thanks for your indulgence! 🙂
God I asked this question when I first got into the show too and to this day I can't really understand how "quite right too" is used it conversation or what it really means. It sounds to me like "AS YOU SHOULD (LOL)" but I am not sure that is the meaning in there. Like a billion people have tried to explain it to me, and I've seen it in books and stuff since, but it is just the most awkward-sounding phrase to my poor Canadian ears.
No, I think he's saying "Of course you love me!" because he hasn't got any other way of vocalizing his feelings. When was the last time he was in a romantic relationship?
Quite right techinally means 'of course' but the the middle and upper class british tend to use it almost as a nervous tic in conversation- something comes up in conversation and you don't quite know how to deal with it, but it's a mostly positive statement = 'um, quite right!'
I always took it to mean, 'that's how it should be' – not in the arrogant way, in a sort of regretful way. But it's a strange line, now you raise it; in British English it would *usually* mean the same to us as it would you. But yeah, in the context of his loss, I think it's just, yes, 'this is the right time to say so, this is the only way it should end'.
Mark, now you can listen to the lyrics for "Song for Ten." They fit wonderfully in the Doctor/Rose story. This video contains one split second shot of the Doctor with Catherine Tate's character, but it doesn't give anything away, and since you already know she has met the Doctor, I don't think it's spoilery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95rTEbYUdH0
Thanks for posting that, I've never heard the whole thing before. Sad song, but not quite so sad as another song from the show that I can think of…but spoilers.
I understand the loneliness thing.
I don't like Rose, although I used to be rather fond of her. Then I watched the later seasons and some of the earlier ones and she pales in comparison, at least she does to me.
But I cried like a baby when I first saw this and still cry on rewatches. SO MANY TEARS.
(NOT FAIR to use Iron Giant macro, you BASTARD HOW COULD YOU DO THAT TO ME)
But Catherine Tate. Yeah. If there's anything to snap you out of your misery, it's CATHERINE TATE.
Have you see the Comic Relief sketch with Catherine Tate and David Tennant? It's not spoilery at all.
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?
"Four.
"You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?
"We would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek!"
Best exchange ever.
The Daleks are so sassy.
I love they way they say "FOUR." Just so damn arrogant, and it kills me every time.
In my comment for the last episode i said i was going to share my opinions on how alike Billie and Rose are.
Okay, so are you ready for some major Billie Piper lifestory? Here goes.
I think Billie's and Rose's lifes are very similar, but in a way, they are the exact opposite.
Rose's life:
She's living a normal, somewhat boring life. She's going through the motions. Wake up, go to work, eat chips, got to the pub with her boyfriend, get drunk, watch tv and go to bed. Nothing exciting or interesting happens. Nothing that could challenge her, test her and bring out her true potential.
Then she meet a man called the Doctor. Who showed her that life can be full of adventure and excitement. That it's okay to not want to settle for what you have, that's it's okay to reach for something else, something that could end up being better. She becomes brave, resourceful and confident. She sees life in a completely different way.
(It's saying 'error missing attributes' again! GRRRRR)
Continued:
Billie's life:
At the age of fifteen she was signed to a recording contract after being spotted on a Pepsi advert. She was the youngest singer to debut at number one. She traveled the country doing gigs. Performed on tv shows. Won awards. Toured in America. She had an extraordinary life that any struggling musician would have died for.
But she wasn't happy because though she loved performing (and dancing most of all), she had always wanted to be an actress. The pressure of paying back all the money the recording company gave her, the weight of everyones expectations, the death threats she recieved because she was dating a guy from a boyband and a woman who stalked her for years, made her develop an eating disorder. She lived off of cigarettes and coffee, when the hunger pains got to her she would eat toilet paper to make them go away (yes, toilet paper), she would take handfuls of sleeping tablets and sleep for days on end so she could miss out a few days of food. She developed infections. Collapsed at concerts, night clubs and even her own birthday party. Was admitted to hospital a few times. Had to cope withcthe papers saying she was pregnant, on drugs or both. She hit rock bottom and contemplated suicide.
Then she met a man called Chris Evans, who was (and still is) a British radio DJ/TV presenter. She quit the music business, married Chris in Vegas, moved to America and spent her days in the sun, getting drunk in the pub, not caring what people thought of her anymore, eating whatever she liked, living the way she wanted to.
Chris was HER Doctor, he made her better. He made her confident enough to decide that she was going to be an actress. And brave enough to get what she wanted from life, instead of doing what everyone expected of her.
Billie's and Rose's life experiences are so similar, that she will always be Rose Tyler to me. I can't imagine Rose as as anyone else. I love Rose and i love Billie, they are one in the same to me.
If you want to know how i know all this, it's because she wrote an autobiography called Growing Pains in 2007 (i think), though she didn't write it because she wanted to, a journalist was writing an unofficial one and hunting down her friends and family for interviews, so she decided to write one herself so the journalist wouldn't profit from it. If you're a Billie Piper fan i'd suggest reading it. Seeing how much she knows and loves the character of Rose is so lovely.
"Bite me Alien Boy!" *squeals* i love Catherine Tate after seeing her in Doctor Who!
Tate: "Are you the Doctor?"
Tennant: "Doctor who?"
Tate: AGH!
::dies laughing::
I have watched that skit like 20 times in the last week.
It is fantastic! And she SO brings that attitude to Who and it. IS WONDERFUL.
Thankyou Mark for what you have written today. You managed to put words to what tumbles around inside my head and explain the restless feeling I live with. I really want my husband to read it to maybe understand me a little bit more.
Huzzah for Dr Who and Harry Potter. So very glad you have found these amazing worlds.
Oh, I CRIED. And I cry every time, even when I know whats happening.
I, also feel very distant from others in my life- even my best friends, even the love of my life, and there's always a barrier between us. I am aware I am not as happy in their company as they deserve, and that I don't love them as much as they deserve because there is something blocking that.
And it's going to sound soppy and pathetic as all hell, but in a way fandom has dissolved that block, a little for me. I can love and cry for fictional characters, because they're safe, and it makes it easier for me to connect with real people, just a bit.
I don't think anyone who hasn't had depression – actual depression as opposed to just feeling sad or down – can't really understand it. *hugs on the astral plane*
I would just like to post a signature i made for a forum years ago when i was rubbish, oh hell, i'll show all the ones i've made concerning Rose/S2:
[IMG ]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/hobbitgurl52/Willsheeverreturn.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG ]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/hobbitgurl52/Rosegonebutnotforgotten.jpg[/IMG]
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[IMG ]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/hobbitgurl52/goodbyebillie.jpg[/IMG]
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[IMG ]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/hobbitgurl52/goodbyesarahjane.jpg[/IMG]
Can believe how many i made and i seemed to be obsessed with bright coloured text.
Ahh no, just delete the img bit at the end then and it should work.
Sorry to interrupt the Doomsday discussion, but I have an important notice for Mark re The Three Doctor:
When you watched The City of Death, we gave you bit of basic background, so in the same way, as you're going to be watching The Three Doctors, I think here are a few points that might be helpful:
1. The Third Doctor (Jon Pertwee) has stuck on earth since his regeneration, having been exiled by the Time Lords. (For reasons I don't think we don't need to spoiler you with.)
2. He is working for the alien and wierdness fighting military organisation UNIT. (Which you might recall being mentioned in passing in the new series.)
3. His companion is contemporary `70's chick` Jo Grant.
4. By the time of this 10th Anniversary story, William Hartnell, who played the First Doctor, was too ill and frail to appear `live` and so sadly, you won't get a true impression of the original Doctor.
And I think that's the bare minimum you need.
Enjoy!
Edit: Didn't notice Matthew had basically beaten me to this.
The only thing worse – OK, that’s an exaggeration. There are lots of things worse.
Something that’s worse than being constantly alone is to find a place where you aren’t anymore, and then have it taken away from you.
I had the same feeling of isolation from… everyone, though with much less abuse, for most of my childhood. But there was a high school for gifted kids in my state that I was accepted to, and it changed my life. I think it was because it was a boarding school – few people with strong connections to their home lives/home schools would want to go there. It meant leaving all your connections at home behind, so the people who went were, at a much higher ratio than the general population, those who felt disconnected, isolated. The friends I made there had that common experience of bullying and isolation, and common interests in intellectual pursuits, and from a group of disparate loners we became close friends. We were happy. We were healthy. We loved each other. We weren’t alone anymore, and for most of us, it was the first time.
We did everything together. For example, when we were hungry we would go around to everyone’s rooms and ask if they’d like to come. We didn’t want to leave anyone out, because we knew what eating alone in a crowded cafeteria felt like. It’s been years since I’ve seen most of them, but I still feel less alone when I think about them – until I remember our lives have separated, and that even when I see them it will be in fleeting glimpses. That grips my heart in sorrow.
In terms of depression, tis definitely better never to have loved at all than to have loved and lost. In the non-romantic, “I am not alone in the universe!” sense, I mean.
I have a boyfriend from after that era, whom I love, but I still often feel alone with him – he doesn’t understand things the way I do. Not that he’s stupid, or that my understanding is better than his, but we just don’t align that way.
Sorry for rambling. Your bit on being alone just sort of pulled it out of me.
Oh, I agree. Reaching out, trusting and opening up and connecting and then have that lost- it leaves scars and makes it harder to do it again.
I had the same experience with college. It was a big community and it was completely made up of people who hated high school, people like me, weirdos and outcasts. I haven't felt at home anywhere else and I went through a horrible deep depression after graduation.
Okay, time for a palette cleanser after the tragic heartbreak and forever sadfaces of "Doomsday"'s ending: The Weakest Link's Doctor Who special!
That's a link for Part 1; there are… five, I think, from that user. It's really fun and entertaining. You get Anne Robinson snarking — and flirting, Noel being smooth, John hitting a high note, Camille being adorable, and David embarrassing himself (in Scottish, no less!).
At this point, the only thing that's even vaguely spoilerish isn't much more than a general show synopsis of Torchwood.
So, yeah. Something fun to watch if you want to see the actors as themselves.
Love you for this one. Seriously thanks. I love this special so much.
IT'S GOT K-9 MARRY ME
Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen the whole of it, it's great!
There are spoilers in your post 🙁 (characters who haven't appeared yet?)
I didn't think it was much of a spoiler seeing as I didn't reveal anything about her? I've seen people post a lot worse o.o
Nonetheless, even if other people have been more spoilery, the character hasn't appeared yet, so they shouldn't be mentioned – if for no reason other than to not in any way bias Mark's opinion of them.
Well, I can't edit the comment so I'll just have to learn from my mistake. -shrugs- I didn't think mentioning a name was all that bad, seeing as I've seen much worse spoilers before posted on here.
Oh, and in other news, in our rewatch of OldWho we have hit the Peter Davison era. We estimate at our current rate it will take us a year and a half to watch up to NuWho, including (ick) the film.
Because I always hated Rose, seeing her go makes me feel roughly nothing. If anything, I'm slightly pleased, but even then, it's not even real pleasure, it's more just…"Well, it's not like anything truly bad happened…*sigh*" So I kind of feel like this episode is RTD going, "TA DA!!!!!" and waiting for applause and I'm just sitting there going, "…right. Was I supposed to care about this? Was I supposed to be at all invested? Because if I was, you really failed as a writer, sir."
But whatever. If it worked for someone, good for them. I'll just bide my time until the companions I actually care about show up.
For a change of topic, what did you guys think of Yvonne?
I must admit I liked her in the previous episode. She has awful ideas about Imperialism and her way of dealing with the alien is nothing short of awful but I can't help but like her. Her cutesy "I want to know all your names", her being up to date to the office gossip and, above all, her clapping when she met the Doctor.
In this episode, somehow she managed to override her Cyber-programming and kept fighting. She's like totally my role model (except for her Imperialistic ideas, of course).
It's a weird feeling that I doubt I will be able to convey, but every time I watch the scene where she is able to hold off the Cyber Men, it kind of scares me. Her brain is so ingrained with the idea of what she sees as best "for Queen and Country" is above all other thought that even the logic of the Cyber-programming cannot overtake it. She honestly believes that her decisions are above all reasoning and logic of others. In a certain sense I'm impressed by having that set of values that cannot be overwritten, but no seriously, her will does not get that authority. I'm a "absolute power corrupts absolutely" type person and watching her make that decision, in fact all of her decisions, it just bothers me. The way she just flips her hand and the Doctor is her prisoner and the Tardis is hers? Yikes. Meanwhile the actress did a great job.
Oh, God yes, it was scary to see her willpower overriding that, just like she overrode the Doctor's objections for what she was doing.
Her values were completely wrong but I can't help but respect her, in a way, for how strong she was. Usually I hate this type of characters, it's a bit weird that I don't hate her.
Doomsday doesn't get a fear rating, because they didn't want the super sad ending to leak out.
Here, have a gif.
<img src=http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/Buyn/rosecryinggif.gif>
That gif is sad, but it reminds me that I want to knit those fingerless gloves. Curse my not having money to buy yarn!
Oh man, you guys are gonna do this to me too! Being Human has been all over my Tumblr feed and has made me want to catch up (I fell off the wagon late in season one). I wanna know what's going on between Annie and Mitchell!
Damn internet. Just last week it got me sucked into 'Miranda' out of nowhere, now I've binged on it and am waiting hopelessly for season 3…
I understand.
I'm not saying I understand what you're feeling or what you went through. I'll never understand your feelings because I'm not you. I'm saying that I understand what you wrote because that's what I feel around people, only you can word it much better than I could ever do it. Whenever I'm around people, I'm isolated, lonely. Whenever I'm completely alone, I'm peaceful. Even if I'm lying in bed completely ridden by pain (and I've been there many times), unable to move or seek help of any kind, knowing I'm completely alone and knowing nobody would ever find me if something happened to me, even then I don't feel loneliness. I could die alone at any moment and I wouldn't feel lonely. If people were around me when it happened, then I'd die lonely in pain.
All this comes from experience, let me tell you. The biggest worry I can have of being alone is boredom and it doesn't last that long either. And if it does, who cares? And of course, now that you finally mentioned it, I don't feel connected to you either. I'm not you, I don't share your mind and I certainly can't feel your emotions from a wire. I still like reading you, your experiences and opinions, because it's good writing that invites to thought and discussion. I certainly don't need to be like you to appreciate a good writer and story teller, right? You now confirmed as well something that's been nagging me for some time from your reviews. Now I think I can see why they looked the way they did to me and, strangely, that means I was right all along. I don't know whether to feel good or bad about that.
I will say the opposite of other people. You Are Alone. Everyone Is Alone. Nobody's with you ever no matter how much they say they are. You're near people physically, but they aren't with you. This isn't necesarily bad, it's something I've felt always and I've learnt that it's the normal frame of mind of the intellectual mind. The saying "ignorance is a bliss" is a true saying. The less you know, the happier you are. The more you think, the more miserable you become. That's why alcohol and drugs are so popular, they make you forget what you know, what you think, they take you back to ignorant innocence. Just remember that this doesn't necesarily have to rule your life. You can be you without being your depression. You said you accepted being alone, but have you accepted solitude? Acceptance is not the same as resignation. Don't fall into that trap. You can be alone and be yourself, you don't have to take less than what you are, you can still rule within your own mind. Intellectual minds are awesome like that.
Like I said, I only write from experience, or I wouldn't know how to write it. I can't feel to express what I never knew.
PS: What movie is that image from?
THANK YOU. Thank you for this.
If you're referring to the GIF, it's from Fringe.
You're welcome, it was just a thought you brought out. 🙂
I was refering to the long image of an animated movie in your review. I don't know the movie.
Something about me: I do not cry at movies/books/TV shows. Well, almost never. I can count on one hand the number of times I have (at the Grey Havens, both book and movies, reading "Never Let Me Go", always at the end of Hamlet). But Doctor Who gets me, every goddamn time.
What makes it worse is how the Doctor reacts to grief. He just goes…nothing. He shuts off. And because that's more or less how I react when really bad things happen, it makes it so much easier for me to empathize with him. Rose crying and pounding on the wall is so sad, but the Doctor leaning against the wall with this desperately sad yet flat look on his face makes me cry every time. And how he doesn't cry until he's alone in the TARDIS again. Like he can't completely open up, even to Rose. He can't even manage to tell her he loves her. And nobody can convey utter tragedy by, basically, just standing still, like David Tennant can.
I was mildly distracted by how extremely similar this whole situation was to "His Dark Materials". Parallel universes? If a opening between those two worlds is made, bad stuff happens? Two people who love each other more than anything else separated forever in different universes? Hello, Philip Pullman!
On a more upbeat note, CATHERINE TATE YESSSS!
Hello Mark.
I've used all these before during Mark Reads Harry Potter, but now I can once again break out my SadGifs!
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/501yjq.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/2yl4io9.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
And, as a bonus, and in preparation for the Christmas Special, have a "What?!?" Ten
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/2jbuzwn.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
Ah! One of them didn't load:
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/kby7sz.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I did! Well OK not specifically then, but on rewatching I've noticed it as a musical theme that comes in and out. It's really the Doctor and Rose's theme. Which it why it makes so much sense as really a full musical number to close out the episode (well, until Catherine Tate shows up!)
Uh, can everyone mentioning His Dark Materials PLEASE SHUT UP? D: Mark is going to read that!
Er…so we're not supposed to mention any connections to any outside media ever? People have been all over the Buffy references for quite some time now, and Mark's said he's going to do that at some point.
Have people been referencing specific plot points/events in Buffy? Because I'm seeing that happen with the refs to HDM and it feels REALLY spoilery to me. So not cool if they're doing that with Buffy too.
I believe so, yes. People have referenced certain characters' deaths and made comments about particular episodes. I guess I'm just not sure if we can do any outside references at all, it seems a bit constraining if we can't discuss references to any book, TV show or movie because it might potentially be spoilery to someone at some point. I don't remember reading anything about that in the spoiler rules, but if them's the rules I'll abide by them :-).
Oh, that's definitely not cool in my book. He's said he'll do it, I think we ought to keep him unprepared.
Personally, I think that when something goes on his to-read/to-watch list, it ought to fall under the spoiler policy, but that's just me. Methinks there needs to be an update to it wrt to that.
That makes sense. I didn't actually know that "His Dark Materials" was on the to-read list. There should be an official list somewhere that we can refer to!
He edited the Suggestions thread with a list of confirmed and rejected books, which you'll find a link to up top in the header, right next to the link to the spoiler policy (in fact, one of the rules for suggesting something is to avoid spoilers in your summary). There's one for Mark Watches and another one over at Mark Reads.
Good to know, thanks.
Great! (I had no idea)
Yeah, I'm really excited about it. 😀
Oh hell yes, I love series 5 Team TARDIS! So excited about series 6 too, I am also hoping for that.
I think these were the first two episodes I ever saw of the show.
For years I refused to watch any of it because it made me too sad, knowing that Rose and the Doctor were going to be split apart forever and that everyone was going to try to cry all the tears at the same time. I'm glad I started, though. Even if I did skip them this time around because I don't like being emotional and wouldn't have been able to stop.
Oh man, I've never seen "Doctor Who," but I checked out this review because I saw fifteen seconds of this episode once. And I am so glad that I did. Mark, I have been missing these insights into your life––please never stop posting them!
Now, can someone please explain why the humans were so afraid of those talking trash cans? I mean, couldn't they just knock 'em over? What an odd show.
They can't get close because they have a plunger. It is an odd show.
BTW, we prefer the term "pepper pots".
Ha,ha,ha. I'm tempted to learn more about this show, if only to see whether you're joking or not. :/
Oh dear god, it's bradsmith!
JOIN THE WHOVIANS, BRAD.
YOU ENDED UP KIND OF ENJOYING HARRY POTTER, YOU WILL ENJOY DOCTOR WHO.
(YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!)
Fake Hepburn, I was wondering when I would ever see you again! Hello! How in the world would I ever catch up, though!? Things flying all over, people fading out of existence––the small portion of this episode that I witnessed was beyond all comprehension! Alas, I fear that this adventure must be had by another Brad Smith, in another dimension, reality, space, AND time.
(Whovians!?)
BradSmith! Come over to the Dark Side and watch Who with us, please.
Braaaaaaaad! You catch up by reading all of Mark's reviews! Duh!
Or y'know, the 5th series 1st episode was written to allow new viewers to introduce them to the universe, so you could just watch that series when we get there, I guess… BUT HI BRAD, HI BRAD, BRAD HI HI HI!
Well, I can't figure out how to post gifs, so you will just have to click the link and cry endlessly.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8k7eoYgXo1qchihd….
<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5122/5378276062_98c1316332.jpg" width="500" height="299" alt="Oh snap" />
IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5377677629_844e79fdfd.jpg" width="500" height="299" alt="Oh Snap" />
NO YOU IDENTIFY.
<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5090/5377678589_370d4baeff.jpg" width="365" height="500" alt="YOU WILL BE EX-TER-MIN-AT-ED." />
EXTERMINATE.
<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5377680707_5bea98c987.jpg" width="356" height="500" alt="YOU WILL BE DELETED." />
DELETE.
<img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5210/5378281974_b38fe4d0d6.jpg" width="319" height="500" alt="ACTION SHOT" />
Weeeellllllllll, I don't think so. I'm going to throw some scientific-sounding gobblety-gook at you while manipulating a banana that will later be thrown into your important machinery to save the world. Because yeah, I'm awesome.
(Can you tell I had a kitten climbing all over my couch?)
I love the smack-talk between the Daleks and the Cybermen. LOL-tastic.
Jackie & Peter's reunion? PERFECT <3
Also, I love when people are running around in the streets and one person starts flailing before she actually gets hit. Traditional Doctor Who camp, right there.
YOU WILL NOT PASS. I was waiting for her to stab the stairs with her staff.
As much as I don't really like Rose, I will admit that I teared up at the ending. I am very glad that she had her mom there to give her a hug.
OMG those toys are so cute!
I LUFFS THEM. I have two more I haven't shown here, one baddie from series 3 and one from series 4. There are a lot that I don't have yet, that I am determined to own someday. They are just so stinking cute, I want to hug them.
And they DO have plungers! You were right! ZOUNDS.
Among the enemies there are shop dummies, jsyk.
OH MY GOD THIS COMMENT.
UPVOTE.
I think that even if I hated Rose (which, for the record, I don't), this episode would still be heartbreaking.
Mark, the things you say about feeling alone really resonate with me, to the point where I could easily see myself writing what you have written. So… thanks. It's good to know other people have similar experiences, at least in terms of feeling more 'normal'.
Also, if you're planning on watching Torchwood, this would be a good place to start watching series/season one.
…Wait, you didn't cry during Up? Not at all? Or Toy Story 3?
…OH GODS YOU'RE A CYBERMAN!
*completely misses the point*
I KNOW RIGHT
When/why do people cry during Up? The beginning, right? I don't know why I didn't.
I can only think of 2 things where tears actually came out of my eyes, and both are too spoilery to talk about a lot (one was a future DW ep, and the other was the Battlestar Galactica finale where a few drinks and Extreme Personal Identification With A Fictional Character were involved). Like even when I was a kid (SPOILERS FROM THE EARLY TO MID 90s) when Littlefoot's mom dies in The Land Before Time, or Mufasa in The Lion King, I just didn't ever watch those scenes again, but I didn't cry.
I am reassured that I mostly cry appropriately IRL, though.
Oh god this episode. Like everyone else, my day was wrecked by this one. The acting, though, man, the acting was top-notch here. The pain on Billie Piper’s face as she starts sobbing and beating against the wall, the totally lost and broken look on the Doctor’s as he walks away…it’s horribly, horribly realistic. I still sob like a little girl watching that scene.
And of course, Bad Wolf Bay. OH GOD. Yeah, David Tennant crying is quite possibly the saddest thing in the world, because he’s NOT BUILT FOR THAT. He’s built for being quirky and smirking and wearing stupid glasses, not crying. It’s so utterly wrong.
And like someone else said above, the best part of Rose as a companion was that she and the Doctor, together, were happy. The Doctor wasn’t lonely, and Rose got her adventure. From here on out until 11… 🙁
I only made it halfway through the comments, because somebody posted a GIF of Rose against the wall, and I couldn't look at it. I've been able to pull myself through Doomsday twice and haven't been in the right place to let myself watch it again. It does terrible things to my heart.
I love Rose and the Doctor as a unit, because when watching them grow together I understood for the first time the mutual need and growth of a worthwhile relationship. I've warped myself by living under the inspiration of characters in dystopian literature, and that grew into a very isolated mindset and a set of odd rules I've convinced myself to follow. Because I'm bored; because I want my life to have some imagined great meaning. And Rose finds that in the Doctor, but more importantly he also finds that in her. I never knew that I wanted that or that it could even be a possibility for me until I saw the two of them together, jealous and selfish and foolish and perfect. And to see them separated, inevitable though it may be – god, it just hurts. Because as she's beating that wall she's screaming, I think demanding "let me back," as if it's only a wall that's stopping her. As if she can break through it if she only hits a little harder, screams a little louder. I wish it worked that way.
Your post on this is incredible. Absolutely wonderful. I've never followed your writings too closely, only reading when friends recommended it, but I've been following your Who-watch and I'll continue to read. You said a lot of wonderful things here and I really appreciate you sharing your thought process. Thank you for that.
I fucking cried for days when I watched this for the first time. And then my sister started watching the series, so I watched it with her. And again, I cried when I watched this episode. And then, I was bored a couple weeks ago and watched it again. And I fucking sobbed like a baby AGAIN. This episode rips my heart out, throws it on the floor and does a dance on it. I do not care what anyone says, Rose is my favorite companion of all time forever. OF ALL TIME. The chemistry between her and the Doctor is terrific AND I WANT HER BACK FOREVER.
Yay. Now it's time for Donna. I can't wait to see what Mark thinks of her and the other one whose name I won't mention for fear of spoiler police. I personally like these two a lot better then Rose (as fond as I am of her) and think that the later seasons become much better then the first two seasons, but that's just my opinion.
I get it.
When I was younger, I used to worry that my brain was broken. There was this woman in my church, and I would stay with her and her husband every weekend. I loved them; they were like my grandparents. Then he died when I was 13. It did not affect me at all. I remember, at the time, how seriously disturbed I was by that — that this man, who had swung me on a swing and carved me wooden toys, was dead and gone and his wife was grieving, and I was just, "meh." I felt sad for those who had lost him, but I did not account for the loss myself.
A year or so later, a female Sunday school teacher of mine unexpectedly lost her son. He was about 5, and I had babysat her children a few times. If anything should gut someone, it's a dead child. I remember feeling like a demon in human clothing as I stood in a room of weeping people and could not muster a tear. Death began to scare me, because I hated funerals. I hated standing awkwardly near the coffin, looking at the waxy corpse, and feeling nothing — not sorrow, not anger, not even relief or happiness. Just separate and apart. More than anything, I was terrified of the day my parents died. I knew that's when I would truly have to face myself as a monster — because the others, well, they weren't family. And maybe it was understandable that I wasn't close to family, people always did say I seemed far away. And they were right.
So when my mom died and I did grieve, and I did feel anger and sorrow and rage and hurt and an explosion of emotion, I also felt secretly relieved that I am not, in fact, a monster. I also felt horrified at being relieved. And worst of all, I still felt alone. I felt isolated even in the midst of my families grief, as though they did not truly understand my loss any more than I understood theirs. I realized mom had different relationship with each of her children, and none of grieved her quite the same. I stood next to my husband, possibly the only person I have ever felt on the same wavelength with, and realized even he had no idea of who mom was and what she meant to me — she had been sick the entire time we knew each other.
I still hate death. Not the loss of the person — that's inevitable. It's dealing with the grief that I drift apart from. It's the sudden magnification of the reality our essential solitude — a solitude that is normally sublimated by daily life, a vague hum of reality under the business and conversations and threads of grocery shopping and bill paying and going to work. But death and birth and marriage — all these magnify that which I can normally disguise.
I was balling by the end of this episode, ugh, it was awful. It was so sad that they had to be separated when it was so clear that neither of them wanted to be.
Concerning companions, I always really loved Rose and never found her annoying or anything like that, and it's hard for me to see how people dislike her, but now that you mention the loneliness element, Mark, I can see why I connect with her so much.
I really dislike one of the Doctor's other companions, and maybe it's just that i don't relate to her on a deeper level, while others can. That is the purpose the Companion though, they are the "every(wo)man" that allows the audience to connect, and some conduits work better than others for certain individuals haha.
Anyway, have fun with The Bride, Catherine Tate is fabulous, but everyone knows that.
It's okay Mark, we all cried with you, TEARS EVERYWHERE. ;-;
And dude, I love Rose, she's one of my favorite companions to be quite honest.
This episode had me crying throughout the whole thing. Actually, I watched the two episodes back-to-back and I think I was crying from the moment Rose said, "This is the story of how I died" up until an hour after the screen went dark. Even on the rewatch this weekend, I was crying for a good half hour afterwards. I mentioned it on twitter and my friend was like, "Why would you rewatch that? It's so heartbreaking!" (By the way, she read your review of this episode and thought it was amazing. –Oh, turns out she commented just a few posts above me!)
I identify with Rose for many of the reasons you pointed out. I've always felt alone, and I've gone searching for that "missing part" more times than I can count. I've lived in a lot of different cities, towns, villages, and I've traveled across the country, always trying to find it. I connect with people most when I've just arrived somewhere new, but the feeling always fades. Always.
I know something of why I have this feeling: the religious emptiness that you mentioned (I tried my hardest to be a perfect Catholic but never actually had the feeling that there was something more), and most of my influential family members dying when I was young. I've always been manic depressive, I had a speech impediment (I was in speech therapy from three years old until I was eight), and I spent the entire year I was eight years old bed ridden due to a developmental knee disease. I've always been, in a word, different from everyone else I knew (I have friends who still, in their late twenties, haven't attended a funeral of anyone they were close to; I attended at least one a year until I moved to Chicago). But when I arrive somewhere new, even if it's just for a little while, I have the impression that maybe this is where I belong.
That's how I imagine it is, maybe, with Rose. With the Doctor, she's constantly on the move, exploring new places, feeling like she belongs but never staying anywhere long enough to see if she doesn't. And the Doctor is there with her, helping her feel like this is The Place (until they leave it).
There was a good discussion a few episodes back about whether Rose was selfish or not and whether that was a bad thing or not… I don't think her selfishness always has to be viewed in a bad light. She's selfish about a few select things: she wants to keep her family together, protect the ones she loves, and feel complete as a person herself (which she accomplishes by traveling with the Doctor). Most of the things she does, especially as the second series progressed, were out of selflessness (provided that they didn't interfere with these three points) and she grew a lot as a character. And I don't think it's all that bad to be selfish about a few key points; in fact, if you don't, you'll burn yourself up trying to please everyone else.
After a lot of ridiculously emotional reactions to your reaction to Doomsday (in short: I feel you! Even though I obviously don't feel your exact same state and you don't feel mine! But you articulate so well! Gah! Why have I never watched Doomsday again? OH RIGHT BECAUSE I BAWLED MY EYES OUT) , I've finally condensed my thoughts to this:
I never got into Doctor Who fandom because it's always seemed ridiculously negative and like it might spoil my enjoyment of the show. There's not a companion I've disliked yet (and I've watched some old Who too) and Rose in particular will always have a special place in my heart because the first episode I ever saw was School Reunion (yeah, I know, but I was flipping channels on vacation and Girl in the Fireplace was on right after).
Everything you said about feeling alone is so right on, Mark. I don't think that feeling is as extreme for me as you describe it for yourself. When I have a job, I feel different from the other people who work there. I don't feel better than them, I just feel like I don't belong. The same goes with grad school right now. I feel different from my classmates, even though I don't know their personal lives much at all. I've just started taking an antidepressant and I hope it works because every little bit of criticism cannot send me into a spiral of despair if I want to actually get things done in life (like move to one of the biggest cities in the world to pursue my career). Hugs all around.
Yes, same about the fandom. I'm not into crazy! I knowingly didn't participate in HP fandom but I didn't realize DW fandom tended towards crazy. Well, those 10% everyone is referencing.
I guess I'm spoiled to death by Whedon fandom.
I had a strong dislike for computers until I was 13. Around that time, I had started watching Charmed. That was the first fandom I ever really participated in and I only remember a few people here and there who were a bit crazy, mostly because they were Prue fans, but the moderators and site runners at the two forums/sites I visited regular to discuss Charmed kept them in check, making sure that crazy debates didn't occur. I think that's why I love reading Mark's reviews. It's a very healthy debate/discussion on something we all enjoy even if we have differing opinions on certain aspects of it.
Yeah I teared up just thinking about this episode, so, you know! There is that.
Some great gifs y'all, as always.
Yeah. Well. Tears forever at this episode. This episode packs the perfect emotional punch.
I'm late to the party and as such this comment is probably really redundant by now but I just want to say that, without downplaying any of your feelings, your far from alone in feeling alone. My mind gets blown way too much with how many people I know whose lives on the surface seem pretty rad and full of people feel this way, and that it always helps me to put my life in perspective.
BUT personally that's always made me relate to the Doctor, not Rose, I never really read her that way.
As for Rose, while I don't HATE her with fiery passion but I don't really care for her either. Supposedly I should be able to relate to her cause I'm the queen of fuck ups but I don't have a pseudo intellectual or "feminist" essay typed up to justify my opinions and while I do think she was a shitty girlfriend that's not really the dealbreaker for me. I just don't enjoy watching her and I enjoy the show more when she's not on it; I like every other companion after her about 10x better. Different strokes!
All that said, the end of this episode is the saddest thing in the history of ever that I've seen this week.
The greatest thing in it is still the Dalek/Cybermen dialog at the beginning of this ep though. RTD knows my soul!
Also minor complaint but I was mildly annoyed that Mickey's grandma was not mentioned at the end.
Also I have no idea why but the one scared family they cast makes me laugh every time they showed them.
But whatevs, FUCK YES CATHERINE TATE. So stoked for Runaway Bride!
Also fyi I hadn't read any of the comments when I wrote this so this isn't directed at anyone.
Also dear god why did I not proofread.
I know someone said it's time to watch Torchwood if you were going to, but having re-watched episode one last week, it contains Runaway Bride spoilers, and is actually set after it.
Definitely worth a look though
Hmmm. I think I'll have to rewatch this two-parter before I comment. All I can remember at the moment is being really irritated at the Doctor for not thinking to get some ROPE and tie themselves to those wall-magnet-handle things. Which would have solved the issue, but isn't a very constructive comment.
I adore this episode to no end. And I love how it mixes some amazing comedy like the Dalek-Cybermen bitchfest with the MOST DEPRESSING SHIT EVER WITNESSED ON TV.
So one minute I'm like
<img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/Dark_Horse64/doctor%20who/GIFS/10xx4et.gif">
and then I'm just like
<img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/Dark_Horse64/doctor%20who/GIFS/003wz6a2.gif">
What is that GIF of Tennant laughing from?
Never Mind the Buzzcocks.
I think it may be spoilery though, at this point.
I am currently rewatching it through youtube and crying with laughter ALL THE TIME at it 😀
but yeah there are future character actors, so it is spoilery…
yeah, it's Nevermind the Buzzcocks. I don't THINK there's anything overtly spoilery but I can't really be sure. It's hilarious though, and definitely safe to watch as soon as you finish series four.
Thank you for this. I feel the same way (that feeling of disconnect…momentary happiness, but never being happy), and I've never been able to put into words where my depression comes from (I am both clinically and situationally depressed…I'm on anti-depressions to help with the physical symptoms, but still have mental depression), but this is it. The sense of being alone, of not having a "companion," especially while you see others that do. I have had many a best friend, inside joke, boyfriend, and even a love or two, but still feeling cosmically alone is what really hurts. I sent this to my family (who have been helping me deal with my depression for years), because you are the first person to put into words exactly what I've experienced. Thank you.
There’s a moment in “Doomsday” that struck me with a visceral power: Rose Tyler just got taken to the parallel universe by Pete and she rests against the wall that once held the bridge, foolishly hoping that maybe the Doctor can sense that she’s on the other side. And maybe he actually can, as he lingers on his side of the void. Devastated, Rose begins to cry harder and then the Doctor walks away and FLOODWORKS FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
Mark, this is my FAVOURITE moment in the entire episode. Honestly, I mean it. I wanted the episode to end right then and there. Sadly, it didn't. I'm glad you felt moved and involved by the beach scene. After rewatching this series with you, I feel a bit more sympathy for Rose and the Doctor (though I hate their smugness together) and I'd like to thank you for that.
ONWARD! I cannot wait for you to meet the Bride.
Ahh, Doomsday ;(
Rose will always be my alltimefave.
Has Mark started series 3 yet?
That is SO HELPFUL, thank you! I've fallen out of my fandoms in the last year, and I'm starting to really miss the experience. I will definitely check out the links you've given, and feel free to friend me over on LJ: http://carnilia.livejournal.com/profile
Okay… I love Rose. I don't understand why people dislike her. She is so real and wonderful. Also, I love the idea that people can go through a large part of their lives completely dissatisfied and unfulfilled simply because they are destined for bigger things.
"I never quite feel real."
My old therapist told me once that I wasn't convinced of my own existence. We're out here, Mark–keep talking. We're listening.
Doomsday is where I really started getting into Dr. Who.
I mean, I had watched it here and there before, but Rose never clicked with me, actually Doctor 9 never really did either. But then I watched this and it was a fantastic episode! (And while all of you were distraught over losing Rose, I was thrilled to see her go.)
"She is uncomfortably selfish, is determined to interject herself into everything, regardless of knowledge and experience, and will often times do things without the slightest thought to what those actions will do to those around her."
This sounds a lot like the doctor. I think Rose and the doctor are a lot alike (esp. when he was younger).
I loved Rose, despite her flaws, as did many fans. What I loved most about Rose was her affect on the doctor, across incarnations, because he was different with her. She did affect him. Post time war PTSD calloused doctor met Rose, and suddenly he was younger again, and dared to see the world the way she did. Then it all went away.
My elder daughter said, after watching that episode, "that might be the saddest thing I've ever seen."
I cried too.
I'm slooowly catching up with you Mark, and this is where I'm at right now and I just finished bawling my eyes out because ROOOOOOOOOOSE. SAD FACES AND TEARS FOREVERRRR. 🙁 🙁 🙁
I think I'm alone in a similar way to you Mark. Do you think that's a writer thing? Because I've always felt the need to tell my story, to write because it's the only way I can really get myself out there. Sometimes in relationships I stop writing and start telling my stories to the other person instead, but then they leave and it's just me again. (Not to be all emo like THEY ALWAYS LEAVE MEEEE. Sometimes I leave them. But you know.) My writing is the one place I can come back to and be myself.
I too was an outcast kid. Apparently in early grade school I was popular and outgoing, but I have very little memory of that time. Well, I have memories of getting in trouble a lot and having behavior charts and tests done and getting yelled at by my parents. But not of being popular. Anyway, after all those tests they decided I should be in the gifted and talented school, so I transferred in fourth grade. Unfortunately that school started in third grade, so everyone there already knew each other and didn't know me, and I felt awkward and uncool and alone. I remember sort of making friends, but not friends I could really trust. I often got the feeling they were laughing at me.
In middle school I started to own my outcast-ness. I would wear the strangest clothes I could find to school and when someone called me weird I would say, "thank you." Being an outcast became part of my identity. I had friends, but again, not close friends. In high school I was used to being by myself. I hung out with the other nerds and weird kids and I was fine with that. Until a couple of years in when I started being miserable. School is an awful place for me, and feeling alone didn't help. The other kids were weird like me but because the school was so small, we were all weird for different reasons, and sometimes we didn't have anything in common beyond our rejection by everyone else.
Then I went to college. A college populated entirely by nerds and weird kids. Finally I felt at home. I loved being there so much. When I came back home for visits I would turn surly and disagreeable, because I hated being back home, and I hated who I was when I was home. But I did feel alone in college, partly I think because of my depression, which was always there in the background waiting to engulf me when I got too overwhelmed by my schoolwork. I didn't really mind being alone there, though, because just sitting and watching was often enough for me.
Now I'm back in the city that is my home, but where I don't feel at home. I don't know if I ever will again. EMO SOPHIE IS EMO. But one thing that has come out of living near my parents again is realizing how badly they fucked me up as a child. I always hesitate to say "I was abused" because I feel like I have to justify it somehow: yes, it was "only spanking," but it was always done out of rage, and lasted until I was well into middle school. And along with it came the yelling, the dismissing of my emotions and my opinions as ridiculous and childish, the refusal to listen to what I had to say. (And they wonder why I never did what they told me to do.) I remember it got worse when I was about eight or nine–the same time I started having behavior problems in elementary school. I remember crying in wracking sobs, the kind you can't stop, and my father yelling, "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about." I remember fights and slamming my door so hard it broke. I remember locking myself in the bathroom to get away from them, only to have them find a key or pick the lock somehow, and realizing there was nowhere I could ever hide. I remember feeling unsafe in my own house.
So, I don't know if my feeling of alone-ness is connected to that. But this post hit home with me. I really appreciate these personal posts, Mark, these glimpses into your life.
Also, the Daleks and the Cybermen trading insults is one of the best things I've ever seen. Bravo, show.
"You can have thousands of people around you and still sense that you’re standing in an arid desert"
OMGYES! It's been a long, long time since I haven't felt alone in a crowd. I can feel alone when there are only two other people in the room, too.
I was bawling through the end of 'Doomsday'. The scene where they're both at the Wall really killed me. Crying Doctor? Killed me a second time. Fabulous writing, fabulous acting, fabulous show.
I’ll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
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umh…this was beautiful. and…where can I see this Ten!Sobbing! clip you speak of?
I poked around on youtube and couldn't find it. But I THINK it's on the Doctor Who Confidential for "Doomsday" if you want to look for that.