In the second episode of the fifth series of Doctor Who, the Doctor and Amy travel to the 29th century and find that Britain has become a colony spaceship. Upon learning that people are mysteriously disappearing, though, the two become involved in a heartbreaking series of events. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
What really intrigues me about Amy Pond as a companion is that her troubled history is not only completely acknowledged by Moffat, but it’s entirely caused by the Doctor. I commented in my last review that I was interested in the concept of meeting the Doctor’s companion when she was so young, but in “The Beast Below,†we get to see the two of them working off of this knowledge and interacting more as a team.
This episode starts off beautifully, with the Doctor holding Amy as she floats out in space. I don’t think a single Doctor before this would do such a thing, and I think, like this and other moments to come, Matt Smith’s Doctor seems all the more playful, willing to entertain moments of fancy and joy. We’ll get to what that ultimately means, as Amy spells it out, but I feel that it’s going to be very hard not to enjoy this new Doctor’s infectious persona.
Starship UK also presents us with a fascinating idea about Earth’s future. Deadly flares caused the people of Earth to seek a new place to live, becoming immigrants in a way, always moving. I loved the joke that Scotland chose to use a separate speaceship as well. A floating spaceship that’s an entire country. I LOVE IT. I love the small details, like the different parts of the country labeled with bright neon signs. (I saw Surrey a lot in many of the shots.)
This setting is still surprisingly claustrophobic, despite its size, and Moffat’s own personal stamp of terror is all over “The Beast Below†because of it. But it’s not just a clever use of the set that helps give an unsettling vibe to this story. The Smilers are REALLY NOT MY FAVORITE THING EVER. How does this man keep doing this? How does he know precisely what to exploit to make my stomach hurt with anxiety? We all know those fortune teller dolls in carnivals and arcades are some of the creepiest things on the planet, but here, they are signs of imminent disaster. THEY HAVE A THIRD FACE. How is that even goddamn possible.
I worried that this would be another CREEPY CHILD episode, but oh good lord, I was never prepared for how unendingly depressing this ends up being. The Doctor is so incredibly talkative in this version of the character, and it’s almost impossible to follow along if you’re not giving these episodes your full attention. But Amy is quick to devote her mind and focus to this new friend of hers, though she did seem a bit irritated that the Doctor was giving her tasks to do while he went off on his own adventures.
What Amy finds is alternately horrifying and confusing. She goes after Mandy, a young girl who they observed crying silently out in public, where she learns that Mandy lost her friend to what she called “the beast below,†referencing the cold open of the show. (Yeah, an elevator with a floor that slides out and drops a kid into a pit of orange mystery. Ok, no. Just no. Thank you for even more nightmare fuel, Moffat.) What is living under this spacestation? Why do kids get sent down there if they get a “zero� Amy doesn’t discover the answers to this, but she does do a little seeking of her own. I love how she seems to have no fear about breaking open the lock on the tent that she finds with Mandy. She’ll be a good fit for the Doctor at this rate, as everything else that happens to her still doesn’t scare her off. I mean…she discovers a TENTACLE INSIDE THE HOLE. A TENTACLE. And then those weird dudes in robes gas her and kidnap her and SHE’S STILL TOTALLY ON BOARD WITH ALL OF THIS.
This could have been just a simple monster-of-the-week story, but what happens to Amy right after this catapults a pretty familiar trope into something truly unbelievable. Amy wakes up in a room with a bunch of TV screens, a set of white buttons, and a video begins to play. Every adult on board the Starship UK gets to vote after watching a video about the origins of their ship. They have two choices: protest the reality, or choose to forget everything they’ve seen. Amy initially finds this quite silly, until the video begins to play and a vast selection of images flashes before her. Her eyes quickly well with tears and without a moment of hesistation, she chooses to forget. The video had to have been THAT terrifying to her. She even takes a moment to record a video to warn the Doctor that he needs to get off this ship as soon as possible.
When the Doctor arrived, Amy has forgotten what she’s seen, but she doesn’t show the Doctor the video she just made either. Ever the curious one, he decides it’s probably best to hit the “Protest†button, which sends the two of them INTO THE MOUTH OF THE BEAST BELOW. LITERALLY. (I loved the visual reference to Star Wars here, with a strong resemblance to the trash compacter scene.) So the Starship UK was FEEDING CHILDREN AND PROTESTORS TO THE BEAST? This is a wonderful and joyous community of people that we should model ourselves after.
The two of them manage to escape with the help of Liz 10, who turns out to be the QUEEN. THE QUEEN HERSELF. They still have the monarchy in the 29th century, everyone. Is that some like super deep commentary or something. Does that anger some of you.
On topic! Are we at all remotely prepared for what happens next? Like even a little bit? YOU MIGHT BE, BUT I WAS NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY PREPARED. The reason the Doctor placed a cup of water on the ground? Because there was no engine vibration. This starship was powered by something other than that engine. When those creepy robe wearing dudes take Liz 10, the Doctor, Amy, and Mandy to the Tower of London (THERE’S A TOWER OF LONDON!!!), basically I watched with my mouth open the entire time. The Starship UK is powered by the beast below. It’s a star whale. And it is the last of its kind. And it suffers from agonizing pain because in order to steer the whale, powerful jolts of electricity are sent directly to the whale’s brains. And its cries of terrifying pain are constantly being hidden, every second of every day.
Liz 10 ordered this, but has her memory wiped every ten years so she doesn’t remember, so she won’t act against the best interests of the citizens. And she created the voting boxes to prevent citizens from acting up themselves. And THIS IS SERIOUSLY FUCKING AWFUL. Holy god, they are exploiting an animal’s entire lifeforce in order to keep them alive.
I was confused by the Doctor’s immediate reaction of rage and disgust at Amy. I understood that the Doctor didn’t like being out of the loop, but Amy quite literally forgot what she had seen. She didn’t maliciously keep this information from him. It’s just unfortunate how the Doctor had been through this situation before, where he had to choose between letting one being survive over others. I get that he would be upset at having to make a decision like this, but I feel he unfairly assigns all the blame to her. I mean…LIZ 10 DID IT. YOU SHOULD BE MAD AT HER, DUDE.
Conversely, though, this is why I love that Amy is the one to figure it out, as a way for her to prove to the Doctor that she is not this person he is making her out to be. Yes, the parallel is so directly spelled out that it’s beyond obvious. But two creatures, the last of their kind, do whatever they can do to help those that cannot. To watch Amy fly into action like she does in “The Beast Below†is just fantastic, and I’m glad we’ve got a companion who, right at the beginning of the series, can be at the same level as the Doctor.
I already love this series SO MUCH. Oh god, CAN APRIL 23 GET HERE SOON SO I DON’T HAVE TO WAIT TOO LONG AFTER I CATCH UP.
Oh wait WINSTON CHURCHILL AND DALKES. A;dskfja a;lksdjf a;sdklfja d;fk a;dkfh a;sklj ak;ldjsf;dfjklsa
THOUGHTS
- “You look human.†“No, you look Timelord. We came first.â€
- “In bed above or deep asleep, while greater love lies further deep. This dream must end, this world must know. We all depend on the beast below.†Oh god, Amy Pond, I already love you with the ferocity of a thousand dying suns.
- Ok, like…Karen Gillan and Matt Smith have really attractive faces. It is so distracting.
Okay, did anyone else while watching this the first time think it was somehow River song under the mask in the beginning? Because we totally did and it was rather anti-climatic for us when she was "just" the Queen. Silly us.
This episode has been my favorite of series 5 so far (lol out of 4 I've seen) and I don't really know why. I love the idea that the citizens choose to forget what helps them survive because it's so awful. It's like us in wealthy countries who tend to turn a blind eye to some of the truly awful conditions others around the earth live in so we can live in comfort and luxury.
I was 100% convinced it was River. Disappointing indeed. Liz 10 still rocked though.
It actually never occurred to me, but it totally makes sense for someone to make that connection! 🙂
I like this episode for one reason. Amy's opening shoot of floating in space, and Liz 10.
Okay, two reasons. Amy's floating in space, Liz 10, and "Well, the next word is kind of a scary word, so you might want to get in a good place. Say ooooooooommmmmmmm."
Well, three reasons, Amy in space, Liz 10, ooooooooooooommmmmm, and the star whale.
….wait.
Moving on.
I'm not bothered by the continued existence of the monarchy, for the same reasons I'm not bothered by it now. It's a historical tie to the past, and clearly Liz10 doesn't have totally unfettered power. and in times of disaster (WWII, WWZ, solar flares) it's good and useful to have a unifying central figure. The fact that she's slowed her body clock so she's basically immortal… that gives me pause. But not the monarchy itself, no.
WWZ.
Now I have an image in my head of Queen Elizabeth II fighting off zombies, and I thank you for that.
Have you read it? There's a whole chapter about how the UK survived the zombie war.
No, but now I think that I have to.
YES YOU DO. RIGHT NOW.
It is one of the few books (The Hunger Games being the other main one) (and that was LAST WEEKEND) that ever gave me nightmares. But it's amazing.
There are so many books I want to read, I'll try to read faster so I can get to this one, I've heard really good things about it.
Your comment intrigued me so much that I jumped onto my kindle and bought it! I've already started reading 🙂 it was only a fiver!
Man, I have one of Prince Philip driving a speeding carriage while the Queen takes potshots at zombies with a rifle or something.
Best mental image ever. Someone needs to photoshop a macro of this.
I love that image. I bet the Queen is a magnificient shot.
I'm imagining the corgis sticking their heads out the widows all around her.
You guys are hilarious. 😀 😀 😀
Oh. my. god. This is soo wonderful.
If anyone is into Monarchs vs Zombies, Read "Queen Victoria, Demon Hunter". It's a good weekend book. 😀
World War Z is BRILLIANT.
And I did appreciate the section about England, especially because it was all about how great castles could be for defence. Made me feel a little safer with Windsor just down the road. 😛
Agreed on the monarchy thing. Couldn't care less really. As long as they don't do anything then they can stick around 🙂
BUT
in this she can literally just press abdicate. I wish she just got a single vote rather than the whole deciding 1%.
I thought Mark was just baiting us and not being totally serious but I agree. I mean in the abstract I don't think anyone needs to have a king, but I can think of lots of constitutional monarchies that are way more democratic than certain republics that don't think counting all the votes is an important thing.
Must admit this one has really grown on me with repeated viewings. When I first saw it, very much a middle of the road, average – good episode. Now it'd firmly in the good camp edging towards great and I think it comes down to a couple of things:
1) This is very much Amy's episode and is her first proper introduction to what it means to be a companion. She actually gets a pretty rough ride here with the Doctor effectively adopting a sink or swim approach and, praise be, she does actually make mistakes. Her intentions are good but she doesn't really know the Doctor quite as well as she thinks she does. I also love that she's still got the confidence to make her own decision at the end. Yes, she's a companion but she ain't there to just nod and smile. Karen plays her beautifully here, right from the opening TARDIS scene onwards Amy is just fascinating to watch and you can see her working it out as she goes along, great stuff.
2) There's a lot of great moments here that are wonderful quick recaps / intros for those just coming to the show. "Is this how it works Doctor? You never interfere in the affairs of other people or planets… unless there's children crying" is simply the best way I have ever heard the Doctor summed up and a GREAT hook for the younger audience. "It was a bad day, bad stuff happened" with regards the time war, "very kind and very old and the very last" could almost be a tag line for New Who… Plus the comedy beats are simply perfect, everything from "we're bringing down the government" all the way through "oh that's not the pipe" is joyous, "there's an escaped fish", "this fell out of her pocket when I bumped into her, took me four goes", "What are you gonna do?" (from Amy in full-on sulk mode), "I'm in my nightie"… just a LOT of really good stuff.
3) This is the bit that took me a long while to work out and ties into the heavy handed treatment of "very kind and very old" at the end. The Doctor is, at this point, over the regeneration but hasn't dealt with the "I don't need anyone" vibes from the last few years. Amy saving the Star Whale by doing exactly what he told her to do ("notice everything!") and having a different perspective from the Doctor was a wake up call for him, especially as he'd metaphoricaly slapped her down so hard just a few minutes earlier for, mainly, being human. Wood, trees etc. More to the point, when she brings him the mask and he admits she was right… that's not what she's interested in. She's not looking for points or credit, she did it for the right reasons (i.e. saving lives and, maybe in his case, souls) and then, THEN he gets it. It's another one of those lovely little subtle moments that have already cropped up a few times in this series that make me adore this show.
A few other random thoughts: there's not a bad performance in the bunch here; Amy outside the TARDIS (and her subsequent hanging on for dear life) is brilliant, the smilers are flat out creepy and Matt and Karen already feel so natrual together you'd swear they'd been doing this for years. Ultimately I think maybe this suffered a little bit from being a Moffat script, not because it's bad (it's not) but because expectations were so damn high. He's still setting up the universe here and having to work to undo some of the bigger ooopsies from RTD's era (specifically the last year or two) and that'll go on for another episode or two yet….
Oh and it's great to see you're (seemingly) already hooked on 11 and Amy Mark! That alone makes it very easy to resist spoilers, it'd be a crime to do anything to spoil the enthusiasm!
"It was a bad day, bad stuff happened" with regards the time war
See, this is why I love Eleven – with Ten it would have been Operatic Bombastic Emo, but with Eleven, it's, "It was a bad day". He's not denying that bad shit went down, just that…well, he's moving on?
Oh how I love ten, but "Operatic Bombastic Emo" is such a true statement.
Eleven is like a breath of fresh air when you didn't even realize that you were drowning in a sea of mope.
Ten: "……..then the Master stole my truck, ran over my dog, and ated my cookies."
Me: "Is this a Sci-fi or a Country song?"
I totally agree. First time I watched this I just thought this was decent and didn't put much thought into it, but it gets more and more awesome every time I watch it. And this is most definitely Amy's moment to shine.
Definitely agree with you about this episode growing on you. I'm actually just getting into seeing these episodes for the third time (I watched it once by myself by…certain means on the original UK airing, and a second time with friends on BBC America). I had been putting it off because I was afraid I wouldn't like it as much, but I think I've truly gained an appreciation of how strong a series this is.
Stephen_M are we the same person?????
Just ALL of this. It even had to grow on me on rewatch,
Oh, and since I'm not going to make my own person posting this blog (busy day), I'm just going to take this opportunity to say how much I hate the line "Did he do the thing?" It really irritates me.
"Did he do the thing?"
It's so absurdly vague, I kind of love it.
I agree so much. The first time I watched this episode I was incredibly hard on it, but after a while and a rewatch it comes off much better.
I love Liz10, she seemed like a cool queen!
<img src="http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lezk8aqDjD1qa49eto1_500.jpg"/>
Didn’t have time to rewatch this one 🙁 But, I wanted to point out a few good things about this episode, since it gets such a bad rap. Deal with it!
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/oGE8i.gif>
First of all, the Doctor dealing with kids! I love it when Eleven is around kids. He has such a sweet way with him. Amy, meanwhile, isn’t as good with them. I think it’s because Eleven is all about making himself look silly for a child’s amusement while Amy is so hardened by life that she doesn’t have that, yet. She tries hard though! Anyway, I love that the Doctor couldn’t stop himself from interfering for a child in pain. And his speech about crying silently vs crying loudly… it just really hit home for me. It’s so true and just made me wish the Doctor had been around when I was a child. But yes, lighter note, I just find the Doctor + kids so sweet!
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/l17o9.gif>
Eleven and Amy’s interaction! It’s great. I love how they are still at the companion + doctor relationship where they don’t really trust each other but they so want to. It was interesting, when Amy realized she was dead at this point. It was very similar to Rose in The End of the World. But, the Doctor’s reaction to it was so different. Nine, I think, wanted Rose to get that feeling, to understand what it’s like to be in a place where your world no longer exists, but then he didn’t want her to feel too badly and let her call home. Eleven brushes it off – it wasn’t his intention in bringing her there and he doesn’t want to focus on those feelings. I honestly am not sure which one is healthier.
Liz 10! Love Liz 10. Badass queens ftw. And whatever, I like that she was rebelling against herself, basically. More badass women, please and thank you!
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/nleNk.gif>
And yes, the starwhale = Doctor thing is a bit overdone and a bit silly. I do not think it is Mary Sue-ish that Amy figured it out before the Doctor since that parallel is there. Eleven is a doctor who does not like to think about the darker parts of his life, but that also means that he doesn’t always recognize the good parts of himself. To identify with the starwhale, he would have had to confront the part of himself that is the same. Amy, an outsider, and tapping into that part of herself that was helped by the Doctor as a girl, is able to see it from the outside. And, as to the Doctor being prepared to essentially kill the Starwhale… I’m not surprised. I’m of the belief that the Doctor’s personality is formed by what happened before his regeneration. Before he regenerated, Ten was in so much pain, emotional pain, because of what? His empathy, his caring for others, his ability to connect. Eleven might have a harder time doing those things, or at least often be able to turn those feelings off, when he is afraid of being in that pain again. And it’s like Wilf was saying to him about the Master and the human race… placing the needs of the many over the one. Ten didn’t end up having to face that specific choice, at least not as clear cut as all that, but now Eleven faces a similar one. So, I find that part to be believable. Again, deal with it.
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/GNaFo.gif>
Colorwatch: the starship UK is mostly orange’s and browns. But, there are various red hints around. Red benches, Liz’s cape, the girl’s clothing, etc. And Amy herself, in her white nighty with a some blue accents. And the Starwhale’s mouth is all redly lit.
A lot of people say that the world is too complicated, the story is overstuffed. Valid criticism. But, after I watched this episode, I always assumed that this could be a world that Doctor Who returns to. It’s so full of things that could happen! So many stories could be set there!
And, I love when Amy and the Doctor hug at the end. *heart melt* I want to hug both of them, too!
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/zVX5j.gif>
Basically, this, but especially to the Amy figuring it out paragraph.
But mostly, Community! Vampire Diaries! Veronica Mars! I approve.
"But, after I watched this episode, I always assumed that this could be a world that Doctor Who returns to. It’s so full of things that could happen! So many stories could be set there!"
That would be so awesome.
BADASS GIRLS FTW. Caroline is rocking there.
Awwww, the hug is adorable. And I agree with you. This episode has a few flaws, but it's still a very good one.
And we got to see how amazing Amy's hair (and pretty much everything else) is.Yesss that was the exact moment I fell in love with Caroline. She's just amazing.
So much of this episode is so pretty! And, well, it didn't teach me any great life lessons but it was a lot of fun.
Awesome comment is awesome. Basically, ALL OF THIS.
Wonderful GIFs. I approve.
(Especially of the Caroline ones. Vampire Barbie is the best)
I'm sorry, but I'm going to delete this, because Mark is going to be watching BSG and this was reported for possibly being spoilery. I'm going to err on the side of caution here.
He's watching BSG?! EEEE!
Yeah, if you go to the Suggestions topic at the top of the page, you'll see the list of confirmed shows that Mark is going to watch. After this show he's going to do Avatar: The Last Airbender, and then BSG.
You can find a similar list over at Mark Reads, but he hasn't put them in order there, unlike the Watches one (or hasn't decided on an order beyond what's coming next, which is His Dark Materials after he finishes Book Thief).
I just want to say that I'm really glad you're a mod. Thanks for all the general helpfulness and dedication!
Aw. 😀 You're welcome! It's my pleasure, because I love you all so much~
Ooh I'm so excited about Mark Reads His Dark Materials!
Me too! 😀
I really need to watch BSG! I have heard so many good things.
I think you are exactly right to compare 11 here with 9 in "The End of the World" I have always thought Nine desperately wanted Rose to understand him by knowing that how it feels when everything you have ever known (family, culture, etc) is gone. 11 just wants an adventure. He doesn’t think he needs Amy to know him that way, but in the end she does figure him out.
I think Amy’s hair will always feature in my comments from now on. Especially with scenes like this:
<img src="http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/DoctorWhoGifss5/Doctor%20Who%20Gifs/Hair-flying-2.gif" border="0" alt="amy hair grin Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
On a less shallow note, I enjoy this episode.
The idea of a Starship UK is brilliant-a whole country floating in space, looking for a new home.
The Smilers are creepy. They remind me of the angels from Voyage of the Damned.
The main premise of the episode, voting between FORGET and PROTEST is so intriguing. Was there ever really a choice for any of those who voted?
Queen Elizabeth X is fierce. “I’m the bloody queen, mate. Basically, I rule.”
I have to say, though, that the ending was what made the episode for me and the way it highlighted Amy’s and the Doctor’s relationship. He loses his faith in humans once again and she restores it for him. Simply by realizing who the Doctor really is in the short time that she’s known him. She chose to forget before, not for her own benefit, but because she could never let the Doctor face that dilemma, humanity or the alien.
“What if you were really old, and really kind and lonely, your whole race dead. What couldn't you do then? If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand there and watch children cry.”
Those last words show just what a great companion Amy already is. They’re perfect for each other; he shows her the world, she makes him still believe in it.
<img src="http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz271/gallifreys_gifs/11/11Amyjazzhands.gif" border="0" alt="11 &amp; Amy jazzhands Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
Pfft, shallowness. I loved Amy's hair in that scene! It reminds me of the 4th and 5th season intro to Big Love (which no one watched, I know) with the wives floating in ~outer darkness~.
Creepy smiling/frowning face things ick dnw. Also, apparently everything's creepier if it's said in rhymes.
I love Starship UK – firstly, it's gorgeous, but also the idea behind it is really awesome. But I love Liz X even more. Just, just, she's the bloody queen, mate!
<img src="http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9541/tumblrleqr3nyszx1qzea8q.gif">
Ultimate HBIC, and I love it.
She's getting some competition from Amy, though, in being awesome. I love that Amy can't resist a keep-out sign, and knows how to pick locks. And I utterly, utterly adore Amy saving the day by being clever.
Frankly, I also like Eleven getting mean. I loved Nine, and I like seeing the Doctor just getting fed up with humanity. I like this plot because it's presented as a lose-lose situation until Amy figures it out, meaning there was no perceived happy ending to the Doctor, just a hard decision. I like the morally grey areas, basically. And I like that there's not a clever fix as the resolution, just a clever realization. I think this story works beautifully.
And, okay, so the starwhale/Doctor parallel wasn't exactly subtle or anything, but I loved the starwhale itself. As far as new Who aliens go, I think it's second only to the Ood for me.
Anyway, here's some gifs
<img src="http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1078/dwamyhair.gif">
<img src="http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/1305/dwamysitback.gif">
<img src="http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9822/tumblrlhfwww4bai1qelxcl.gif">(littleappletree.tumblr.com)
<img src="http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/2106/dwamy11runawayhello.gif">(unfortunately I don't know who made this last one)
One thing to point out to anyone trying to stay unspoiled for S5 – the next episode has the "next on" bit at the end abruptly start.
I especially love that last one.
Great comment with wonderful gifs. 😀
Is it just me, or does Liz finally get the kind of role on Who that PoC have deserved all along? Finally.
Complex character, respectful portrayal, doesn't die. I liked it.
Totally agreed.
AND is a royal BAMF (pun fully intended)! 😉
I also liked that not only is she a woman of colour… i took that as a mild jab that the UK those millenia in the future acknowledge the Royals can be of colour that is allegedly lacking today….. I also loved the homage to Queen Elizabeth II, who is also kind of a bamf in her own way, as was Elizabeth I (who already appeared in The Shakespeare Code). Other than Victoria, these female monarchs have kicked ass in terms of England/UK's place in the world during a time of rapid and major changes.
Good point, the Brig was another good character.
Liz 10 is great, but Brigadier Bambera in Battlefield is great too. (Hello alliteration!)
Great comment and that last pic is amazing! This episode gets a bad rap, but I really do love it.
Does anyone feel like Moffat was trying to make a comparison between the Star Whale and the Doctor? Because I think he may have been hinting at something there.
Not my favorite episode, but Liz 10 was great.
Well, viewers are morons… and this show is also for kids, which apparently makes it even worse.
Is THAT what they were hinting at? It was so subtle, I couldn't figure it out…
Time for the last trivia I’ll make until Friday! Life is fighting the trivia! 😛
A. This episode was incorrectly assumed to be titled Meddling Monks by fans prior to transmission.
B. Sophie Okenedo is credited as Liz 10 on-screen, and as Liz in Radio Times.
C. If Amy Pond’s age is said to be 1306 years old, and she was 21 in 2010, then the year is most likely 3295.
D. When Amy’s age is given as 1306, the computer screen reads 1308 instead. Oops.
E. The Star Whale’s mouth is clearly depicted at the end of the episode as being in open space. However, when the Doctor and Amy are “ejected” from said mouth, they land inside the ship, as opposed to outside of it. No logical explanation is given for this.
Wow I need trivia. More non-spoilery trivia?
"The Star Whale's mouth is clearly depicted at the end of the episode as being in open space. However, when the Doctor and Amy are "ejected" from said mouth, they land inside the ship, as opposed to outside of it. No logical explanation is given for this."
Do not be limited by quaint views of earthly biology.
Basically, two mouths.
Uh, on point E that's not correct. The Doctor clearly says they exit through an over-flow pipe not the mouth. Surgically implanted, same as the feeder tubes.
…
TARDISSSSS WIIIIKKKKKKIIIIIIIIII!
Umm, Leeeeeeeeeeeeroy Jeeeeeeeeeeenkins?
I think that's right anyway, the Doctor certainly says the normal exit (i.e. mouth) is closed for business and there's mention of an overflow pipe when Amy's coming around. Was going to review but it's gone from the iPlayer at the moment and the computer version is on t'other computer.
Stephen, your memory is correct. Presumably, the overspill pipe comes out through the Star-Whale's equivalent of a dorsal blowhole.
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/244vf2r.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
…Today is Friday…
I’m gone until next Friday.
….tomorrow is Saturday….
Reviews start going up on MONDAY. I return on the NEXT FRIDAY. You see the flaw in this yet?
I think they're quoting that awful song at you.
Am I allowed to hurt people?
<img src="http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m554/lyra_g_rowin/0000kkg3.gif" border="0" alt="Blaine drunk-dance haters gonna hate Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
Huzzah for the cliché party cups!!
Have any of you noticed that on tv / in movies when there is a party they only use red plastic cups?
I have indeed noticed this. So is Solo (or some other red-cup-manufacturer) doing a lot of product-placement deals, or is there some sort of law that cups used at parties must be plastic, disposable, red, and enormous?
Then sunday comes afterwards!
Something I found out a few days ago:
Sophie Okonedo, the actress who played Liz 10, was the voice of the Doctor's companion in a six-part 2003 series called "Scream of the Shalka," the first officially-licensed, fully-animated Doctor Who story.
It was supposed to be a continuation of the original show that ended in 1989, but the revival happened just two years later, relegating the animated series to unofficial status.
Yep and Derek Jacobi plays the Robot Master (really!) with David Tennant in a bit part (he was in the studio at the time and blagged himself a role, as he's such a fanboy). It's also written by Paul Cornell. I don't think it's that great though, mainly because Richard E Grant is phoning his performance in. By the way, he was unveiled as the ninth Doctor, so it's supposed to be a follow on from the 1996 TV Movie (and all the assumed eighth Doctor adventures after that).
It's over here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/webcasts/s…
Edit – also here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xamcnr_scream-of…
Also here (with some fan-made titles):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8H65KY1jcs
and here (but not complete):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOz76ncvjGg
and here (in the wrong aspect ratio):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3bry1pBVKI
It was released shortly before they announced the new series, which rather stole their thunder. The BBC had a Doctor Who forum at the time (which RTD wisely got them to shut down) and it was full of people insisting that Richard E Grant should play the Doctor in the new series, because of Shalka – and an equal (or greater) number insisting it should be Paul McGann, or at least a regeneration should be shown. No amount of attempts to communicate the realities of TV production to them seemed to make much difference.
Edit: but it does mean we can rename "Withnail and I" as "The Two Doctors".
Just have to say: I LOVE 'SCREAM OF THE SHALKA' SO MUCH (yes, unpopular opinion is unpopular)! I thought Alison made an awesome companion! And I loved that Craig Kelly from QAF played Alison's boyfriend Joe.
>Edit: but it does mean we can rename "Withnail and I" as "The Two Doctors".
Well, even if we don't count Richard E Grant, it's already `The Doctor and I`.
Personal trivia: When I was discussing the casting of Eleven with fellow fangirls, when trying to come up with what would enrage anoraks the most we decided the next Doctor should be non-white, female, and gay. I suggested casting Sophie Okonedo. 🙂
But is she isn't white, she can't be a ginger! D8
hair dye?
E. People always seem to be caught up by this, but it always seemed obvious to me that the starship was built *around* the Star Whale and thus the mouth would be inside the ship. The reason the Star Whale is seen outside the ship at the end is the bottom exploded/disintergrated when the button was pressed to free it. That's what all the noise was, yes?
>The reason the Star Whale is seen outside the ship at the end is the *bottom exploded* when the button was pressed to free it. That's what all the noise was, yes?
Am I the only one who finds that *really* funny?
LOL, yeah, that was probably poorly worded on my part!
This episode didn't impress me much. Didn't really drag me into the plot. It didn't all come together so perfectly at the end the way Moffat's episodes usually do.
Considering this is a new Doctor, I didn't want to be getting annoyed with him so soon, but that's what ended up happening at the end of the episode. He was being very unfairly harsh with Amy and who is he to talk about not making decisions for other people considering everything HE'S done? And I HATED that he so quickly made up his mind to lobotomize the star whale! Like, WTF?! Couldn't spend just a little time coming up with a better plan? Whale in pain or not, I think it would prefer you take some time to think it all though and come up with a better effing option! Since when has the Doctor been so quick to do such a horrible thing? He wasn't even in a desperate situation where he needed to make a choice NOW or everybody dies!
Hey, here's an idea, why not just use your vast knowledge of the universe to help point them towards a suitable new home planet? Why not help them find or build a suitable engine for the ship? He didn't even TRY to find a better solution and that really pisses me off.
Also, I kind of didn't like how Amy seemed to know the Doctor so well after so little interaction with him. Sure, they had one hell of a day together once and a little contact when she was a kid, but that doesn't give her the insight she seemed to have with him. I would have liked that conversation if it had taken place after they had been traveling together for a while. I did love how Amy so easily took charge, though.
The Queen was very messed up, despite seeming so cool I can't forgive what she did. Besides what she did to the whale, didn't they also KILL anyone who protested? Or, hell, they even tried to kill the children who got zeroes in school. That's all kinds of fucked up. I feel like this episode is trying to make me feel sorry for the Queen and government for what they had to do to save themselves and their people, but they went well beyond what needed to be done to save themselves in my opinion.
Upvoting you! Eleven IS kind of a dick in this episode, isn't he? Thank goodness for Amy!
Kind of nice that he can still be rude and not ginger.
I hope Twelve or Thirteen gets to be ginger! But I can't imagine a polite Doctor. The universe might explode or something.
I like this one as well, despite its packedness meaning you have to fill in the gaps yourself. Somewhere in me I have a long post about dramatic sense versus world-building sense and how Doctor Who, historically, was plausibly as much influenced by the Theatre of the Absurd as it was by American post-war realist SF. And how, to me, all of that is more interesting. But I'll leave it at that for now…
As for the monarchy, I'm a republican, but I don't think that shows as predictions of the future are that interesting – I'm more interested in how they reflect us to ourselves. In that way, the idea of a Queen of at least partly African descent is wonderfully subversive. Bear in mind that it is currently against the law for the Monarch to become or to marry a Catholic.
Irish Republicans may not like the idea that Northern Ireland is still there – but, again, it's not really about the future.
“We are observers only, that’s the one rule I’ve always stuck to in all my travels. I never get involved in the affairs of other peoples or planets.” You’re such a liar, Eleven. Seriously, are you trying to convince yourself not to get involved anymore, or are you just amusing yourself by flat-out lying?
The Doctor: “Any parent knows that.”
Amy: “Are you a parent?”
I love this moment. It shows us the way Eleven reacts to reminders of his past, and how it differs from Nine and Ten. Their reactions to reminders about everything he’s lost are pretty overt, whereas Eleven’s is subtle. You can see him completely shut down for just a second there, but it’s a quiet little moment. It’s good to see that they haven’t completely abandoned the Doctor’s angst and that his Tragic Past is still hurting him. It’s just less overt, and Eleven deals with it differently.
“Help us, Doctor. You’re our only hope.” Oh, Liz 10, did you really have to use that line? You know what everyone is thinking now. I fully expected to hear R2-D2’s little beeping noise after she said that.
I feel like the star whale-Doctor parallel was misused. It’s not the world’s most subtle metaphor, but had they not pounded us over the head with it, it would have been rather nice. All they would have needed to do is refer, once, to the star whale being the last of its kind, and tell the story of how it had shown up to save them, and it would have been quite obvious, kind of sweet, and at least a bit elegant. No need to repeat it twice, with the camera staring at the Doctor. We get it already. Still, I can’t help but like the star whale-Doctor parallel.
Apparently there’s a lot of dislike for this episode, but I like it fine. It’s not the best thing ever broadcast, but it's got some good Doctor-Amy relationship stuff, some great lines ("Checking all the water in this area. There's an escaped fish") and Amy saving the day. All in all, I think it's pretty good.
"No need to repeat it twice, with the camera staring at the Doctor. We get it already. Still, I can’t help but like the star whale-Doctor parallel. "
Exactly. Less repetition and it could have been really amazing. All the same, I still think it's lovely.
>“Help us, Doctor. You’re our only hope.” Oh, Liz 10, did you really have to use that line? You know what everyone is thinking now. I fully expected to hear R2-D2’s little beeping noise after she said that.
Ah, but maybe they still know about the ancient entertainment vid called Star Wars and Liz 10 said it way deliberately.
You’re such a liar, Eleven. Seriously, are you trying to convince yourself not to get involved anymore, or are you just amusing yourself by flat-out lying?
I so want to post a certain quote, but I won't, because SPOILERS! 😉
“Help us, Doctor. You’re our only hope.” Oh, Liz 10, did you really have to use that line? You know what everyone is thinking now. I fully expected to hear R2-D2’s little beeping noise after she said that.
She's even got the cape!
I feel like the star whale-Doctor parallel was misused. It’s not the world’s most subtle metaphor, but had they not pounded us over the head with it, it would have been rather nice.
Yeah subtle, this episode is not.
I would have liked the starwhale/Doctor parallel better had any of the rest of the situation around the starwhale made any sense.
Oh, fun little aside, in the Doctor Who Live tour they did last year with monsters coming out amongst the audience they had one bit with Smilers and Winders! Yes they are as creepy as you think. Thankfully they also had Liz 10, complete with seriously Bad Ass cloak, running around the entire arena shooting them down. Not sure who was playing her but she must have been KNACKERED after that, especially as it's all done in time to the music. Doesn't quite beat the Judoon singing, or a Dalek ELEVATING above the audience, or the Angels sending four policemen back in time to live to death (they almost litteraly vanished, trapdoor on the stage and a bit of strobe / smoke hid the drop) but still very cool.
This is one of the prettiest things to come out of the show, as far as I'm concerned:
<img src="http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfce774mJw1qc7mlko1_500.gif">
Also the hug <3
<img src="http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfgm8iRlHZ1qe6c4uo1_500.jpg">
"All that pain and misery. And loneliness. And it just made it kind."
I love how Amy gets the
Star WhaleDoctor.That hug was my desktop background for awhile. 😀
So after feeling a bit apprehensive about series 5, I really enjoyed The Eleventh Hour and was looking forward to the rest of this series. Then this episode happened. Omg. This episode. I REALLY HATE IT. Gah. Ok, that’s an overstatement. I don’t think it’s the WORST episode of series 5, but it is pretty bad. I think that this episode is a really good example of Moffat having several interesting ideas and cramming them all into one story so that none of them get fully explored and they’re all kind of half-assed and don’t seem to have any particular purpose. But mostly there are just a few things about this episode that really frustrate me and annoy me and sour me to the whole episode. The first time I watched it I quite enjoyed it. But then my roommate came home and she wanted to watch it, so I rewatched it with her. And that’s when I started to really think about it and realized that so little of this made sense and how much wasted potential there was.
Like the Smilers. That is a cool concept. Same with the Winders. He could have spent an episode exploring the Big Brother aspect and the way that the government works here. Also, the choosing to forget thing. Another cool concept that could have had an episode devoted to it! I think the idea of being “entitled to know” (but apparently not to remember…) is a fascinating one. And what’s up with the fact that only one percent of the population needs to protest? But all protesters are fed to the star whale. So that’s a lie anyway. But even the idea that just one percent of the population could have the right to decide whether everyone else can live or not is just weird. What about the fact that Amy tries to take away the Doctor’s choice by getting him off the ship so he won’t have to choose? That could have used a lot more exploration in terms of setting up the Eleven/Amy dynamic.
Also, how STUPID is Timmy? His friend just tells him that kids with zeros who go into vators get sent below, but he doesn’t want to walk 20 decks, so he gets on a vator anyway? SHEESH.
This episode is really full of characters doing nonsensical things for no apparent reason or withholding explanation for no reason (like why doesn’t the Doctor explain the water thing to Amy when she first asks?) other than to maintain the mystique or to move the plot along.
Like the plot of this episode hinges on the fact that even though the star whale had a history of being kind to humans, helping them pioneer through the asteroid belt, humanity figured that the star whale showing up in their hour of need was coincidence and that they’d have to torture the star whale to get it to cooperate. And then we have Liz X forgetting what she’s done and going all V for Vendetta against… herself? So she’s living the same ten years of her reign over and over again. Presumably the memory wipe for her wipes all those ten years out. But it doesn’t wipe everyone else’s memory. When everyone else votes they only forget what they learn on the video, so they should know that Liz X’s reign has been going on for hundreds of years…. So this episode is just a mess of things happening and nothing really being explained or quite making sense.
Also, there are plot holes big enough to drive a starwhale through. Like, why did they keep trying to feed kids to the starwhale if it always refused to eat them? Probably because Moffat just wanted to keep in that scaring children scene that the show opened with without actually thinking it through. Also, what is it with the video of the creepy child talking in rhyme in the elevator? Needless creep factor for an attempt of getting cheap scares. And what did Britain do to piss off the rest of the world that when all the other countries were getting ready to leave Earth and Britain didn’t have anything, they were all like “PEACE OUT, BRITS” and abandoned them.
Another pet peeve of mine is when writers have the characters tell us what to think about them instead of letting the viewer decide for themselves. This is something that Moffat tends to do with writing the Doctor and he does it here with Liz X. She’s so cheesy and dorky, that when she goes “I’m the bloody queen mate. Basically I rule,” I just have to lol at her. Makes me cringe so hardcore.
I’m just not a big fan of gross out humor, so that whole section in the middle when the Doctor and Amy get puked up is uuuuugh. Not a fan.
And finally, I think that there might have been some sort of parallel that Moffat was trying to draw between the Doctor and the star whale, but I’m just not sure what it is. The writing was very subtle. I think I finally got it on this viewing. I think there was possibly something about them both being old, alone and kind, but I’m not sure. It was so subtle! LOL. Seriously though, I always forget just how bad that scene is. And I know this is a family show or whatever. But kids are not completely stupid. We didn’t need to be hammered over the head with this stuff. It’s just so heavy handed. But we got it the first time Amy said “very old, very kind and alone”. We didn’t need to see it over and over again. It completely takes me out of the story.
Bleh. So yeah, this is not an episode that I rewatched after series 5 was over. It’s the little things that really take me out of this story, and make it a bit of a chore to watch.
I thnk there was a parallel Moffat was trying to make, Karen. I think I’ve almost got it. LOL
My friend made me a Venn diagram to explain it to me! I shall pass the knowledge on to you!
<img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/Goldy369/DW/Crack/TimeLordStarWhale.png">
So what we're trying to say here is that Time Lords are nothing like Star Whales?
What it's actually saying is that there is some hybrid Time Lord-Star Whale creature that is apparently those three traits.
/pedant
Yeah, I'm not sure that diagram works, actually.
<img src="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6890/venndiagramtbb.jpg">
*stares*
*turns head to side*
*turns laptop to other side*
WHY SO MUCH SUBTLETY MY POOR WEE MIND!!!
You win the internet.
How much do I love you for making a new venn diagram?!
Figured it'd be easier to just make a diagram than to explain why the first one wasn't really a Venn diagram at all (cause how many people here are really interested in set theory?)
Me! Me! I'm interested in set theory!I might, however, be in a minority.
Doesn't the first one sort of work if you label the circles "Characteristics of the Star Whale" and "Characteristics of the Doctor"?
Yes, although I always prefer entities to descriptors for this sort of thing.
"Also, there are plot holes big enough to drive a starwhale through. Like, why did they keep trying to feed kids to the starwhale if it always refused to eat them?"
Because a) it enforced obedience on the population from a VERY young age and b) got them a handy source of slave labour in the tower and, presumably, other non-public areas of the ship. Same with the kid in the elevator, you want the population scared, terrified and controlable so you start as young as you possibly can.
Britain being left behind: Human beings by nature tend to be competitive and with limited resources available co-operation would probably have been out the window. We're not talking about a few hundred people but a country of millions. That's not the sort of figure you can just invite on board your ship and you can't simply build the ship bigger if you can't also increase the power, thrust, food, water, oxygen etc etc. If they didn't have the resources to build the engine part of the ship it's highly unlikely there was much other countries could have done even if they wanted to.
"Human beings by nature tend to be competitive and with limited resources available co-operation would probably have been out the window. We're not talking about a few hundred people but a country of millions."
This makes sense to me.
I was also wondering if maybe Britain was just stubborn and didn't want to believe things were going to hell on Earth. What if they didn't want to face it until the very end?
Maybe that was a subtle reference the whole British stereotype of "stiff upper lip" and "Keep calm and carry on"?
Heehee, I'm half German, and my Oma always said, "Keep your ears stiff!" 😛 At least "stiff upper lip" makes sense! (Sorry Omama, please don't kick me beyond the grave!)
Britain being left behind:
It's all well and good to explain it that way, but this episode needed the writers to just throw us that bone in one line, somewhere, and then magically this episode would make at least 50% more sense.
I think that this episode is a really good example of Moffat having several interesting ideas and cramming them all into one story so that none of them get fully explored and they’re all kind of half-assed and don’t seem to have any particular purpose.
This basically sums up my feelings on this episode as well. The only bit I really enjoy is the end when Amy starts being a badass and my heart is broken by the star whale. Everything before that seems too brief and I really wanted the creepy carnival booth robots to be more important. If you want to scare me Moffat do it properly :/
That being said, I dont mind Eleven being pissed off with Amy because although she didnt deserve it, I think its realistic that they're still getting used to each other and there are bound to be some sparks. Liz 10 makes me laugh, I think the actress that played her was rather good. And I really want to say how much I love the star whale and it is my favourite character in this episode stop judging me.
Jumbled mess of thoughts is a bit jumbled. This is what happens when I write comments off the cuff XD
Yeah lots of plot holes, why introduce the winders then do nothing with them. Also I like how the Doctor doesn't sort out this horrible dystopia. He just sorts out the immediate crisis that they basically caused just by being there and then leaves them to their feeding people to the star whale ways. Thats how the Doctor used to roll pre-revival so it's accurate I suppose but it's a bit odd now.
Probably would have massively improved the episode (and every episode ever becuase it would mean MORE DOCTOR WHO) if they'd kept the extra 15 minutes from Eleventh Hour going forward. Obviously the BBC is having a bit of a budget thing with the Tories looking over their shoulder so they wouldn't have been able to do that even if they wanted toobut I'd rather have dialogue and more plot rather than lots of CGI monsters.
About the kid in the elevator/protesters:
I assumed that the trap doors were automatic, so anyone who does something "wrong" disappears. If that were true, it would apply to everybody, even though the starwhale doesn't eat children (and you can't let them back to the surface because then there wouldn't be as much fear keeping people in line). I also think that saying that only 1% of the population need to protest is just another scare tactic. People would probably be much less likely to protest knowing that so few protesters were needed, then add to it that the protesters die, and I for one would be pretty terrified to protest (although I like to think I still would). On top of that, for more security, feeding all the protesters to the starwhale keeps the number below 1%, so you're not exactly lying about not having enough protesters.
As to leaving Britain behind: I mostly agree with Stephen_M, but would like to add to it that, generally speaking, people would be less likely to help a country that ought to be able to help themselves. If all the other well-off countries were able to get their people sorted and Britain didn't, that's their problem for not trying hard enough. I think it's a shitty way to see the world, but it's very realistic.
And while I agree that there are a lot of good ideas that aren't fully fleshed out, I don't think it's half-assed. I would love to know more about the Smilers and Winders (hello, obsessed with Big Brother-type things) and how the forget thing works and on and on, but I don't think it's necessary for this particular story. I don't need to know how the Smilers work to know that they're keeping tabs on the whole population to make sure everyone is doing the right thing at the right time. I don't need to know why people chose to forget or how that came to be to understand why Amy forgets and why the Doctor gets angry with her for it. To me, it's like in The Long Game when they go to the Fourth Great and Bountiful Human Empire, and the people doing the news with the weird forehead thing and the snapping and….I know that it's how the transfer information in the future, but how? And why? Isn't some future form of email good enough? There's a lot going on in that future, on that spaceship, that I want to know more about, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the action and specific story that's being told in the episode. As for why the Doctor doesn't explain the water thing to Amy, that's just how he is. The Doctor is (almost) always a step ahead and doesn't always explain himself. Obviously, from a narrative standpoint, they wouldn't want to give away that the space ship has no engine in the first 5 minutes, but I don't think it's out of character.
That Liz X line was so stupid. It's like the Doctor saying "Who da man" in 11th Hour. It's just……dumb.
I think all your points is why the episode is boring to me. I couldn't really point it out, but it's probably all of the things Making No Sense. I can't follow something I don't care about, and I don't care about it if it makes no sense at all, even in a wibbly wobbly way. I think in this one I started to tune out all of the exposition and only hung on the cute Doctory phrases, and by the end was only mildly charmed by it all.
Oh Karen. It's like you read my mind with this review. Except this episode grosses me out so much I used a lot more capslock to express my dislike. It's the vomit scenes.
See, when I heard in this episode that the rest of the world had sorted themselves out and were heading off and the UK were still there trying to sort themselves out… and Scotland were choosing to go off on their own… I just thought, well YES. OF COURSE. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.
Seriously, I can't imagine anything else from my most stubborn and ridiculous and beloved of homes.
Ha! I didn't hate this episode, but I agree so hard with everything in this comment. I was like WHY DID THEY KEEP FEEDING IT KIDS IF IT DOESN'T EAT THEM?? And what happens to the kids the whale doesn't eat? Do they just… hang around until they die of starvation? Not to mention that that is a seriously strict school system…
Come on now people. No down voting just because you don't agree. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Karen's comment or opinion. If you don't agree just don't vote, it's not a compulsory thing.
lol, I think you just got downvoted for this.
Haha, I wonder if the space time vortex can handle the irony.
Upvoting everyone in this comment thread even if I disagree with them. Everyone is being civil and they don't deserve downvotes.
If you downvote we will FEED YOU TO THE STAR WHALE. He is very old, and very kind, AND THINKS SERIAL DOWNVOTERS ARE DELICIOUS.
Yes, we know this about the Doctor, but what about the star whale? 😉
This is EXACTLY my thought on viewing this episode. There were many good ideas, but WAY TOO MANY jam-packed together. They did not complement each other or tie together that well. Also, YES to the idea of people doing nonsensical things for no reason to move the plot along/maintain a sense of mystery. I hate it when I'm told instead of shown on TV, and this happens frequently in this episode. I think it would have been better to focus on one or two of the many interesting ideas and develop that more, which could have led to a very thought-provoking episode.
I think that's what really frustrates me. This episode is FULL of potentially great episodes, but it just fails to deliver or live up to what it could be.
How do you feel about the character development?
I didn't think there was all the much of it. If an episode is going to fail on a plot level, it had better knock it out of the park on a character level. Like, I can forgive the sloppiness of of End of Time because I think that the scenes between Wilf and Ten are fantastic. And the plot of Father's Day is totally lame, but the scenes with Rose and Pete are so amazing, idgaf.
But this? Idk. I think it just underscored that Amy is running away from committment. And… that the Doctor is kind and old and alone?
I'm surprised you only see Amy as running away from commitment. There is so much more to Amy Pond than she has cold feet. Although, I'm not knocking the cold feet thing. I think it's great that she has this dilemma in her life.
The Doctor tells Amy right off the bat to pay attention and she does with flying colors. She manages to piece together clues that even the Doctor missed to come up with a solution that didn't seem to be there in the first place.
I think Artic_Hare has one of the best reviews about Amy in this episode. I, unfortunately, didn't get a chance to rewatch it, but I have seen it twice. So I'm not swimming in details right now, but I do remember getting a greater sense of who Amy is by watching this episode.
Not to mention the expansion on who the Doctor has become with this new incarnation. He's finally leaving behind the trauma of the Time War. Gosh, I wish I had rewatched! I'd love to be more specific. Honestly, I was expecting you to have more to say on the issue. lol
Yeah, but all that stuff about Amy is more about being The Companion than being Amy. That's the point of companions. They see things that the Doctor doesn't and they bring humanity to his alienness. So the fact that Amy does that in this episode still doesn't do much to tell me who AMY is or to differentiate her from her predecessors. So far, I'd have to say that the thing that makes Amy different is her commitment issues because now she's someone who is running FROM something as opposed to someone who is running TO something, which is more the feeling I get with a companion like Donna.
I do agree that we see that Eleven has moved on from the Time War, but that tells me more about who he isn't as opposed to who he is, if that makes sense. I will say though that this episode does show Eleven to be much more of a Dad than Nine or Ten was. So that is something that I learned about Eleven through this episode.
Comparing the companions will definitely yield a lot of the same traits and that makes sense since The Doctor naturally flocks to a certain kind of person. But it still has to be looked at on an individual basis. Amy isn't the way she is just because she's a companion. These traits are her own and a part of who she is as a character.
And honestly, she's not different when it comes to running from something (although her reason is). Rose was running away from a stagnant life and Donna was running from a purposeless life. Martha was the only one who was basically taking a break.
I say "Blimy if this is just the mouth than I'd love to see the stomach… but not right now." Is Matt Smith awesome or is he awesome? Since he's still cooking in the eleventh hour this is the first real view at what kind of Doctor 11 will be the coming years and it's going to be… cool.
Huh, does the site think I'm spamming? Apparently my comments need to be approved before they show up?
Or maybe because that one had images in it?
It showed up now. Sometimes it does the same thing with my comments, for no apparent reason.
Umm, the site wasn't prepared?
Sorry.
I'll take it! XD
Yep, also sometimes there's some really random words that will get a comment marked as spam. I used rou-lette on here once and it took me forever to figure out what was getting me blocked.
Okay this is going to be a really awful comment because I forgot to rewatch before Comic Relief started and now I'm trying to pay attention to that while typing this.
This episode is generally less well liked by a lot of people but I really like it. It's not the greatest ever but it's not the worst ever.
I LOVE the production design of Starship UK. It really looks like the ship was cobbled together out of whatever bits of buildings they could get their hands on. I just want to go exploring in all the skyscrapers. Something I picked up on was how very British everything was, all the flags, the BBC-logo lettering on the Starship UK logo. They've brought along as much as they could to remind themselves of their cultural identity as Britons. I also love Liz 10's little bedchamber thing, with the multiple glasses of water around the chandelier. The introduction of her, with the mask propped against the red cape is seriously gorgeous.
I LOVE Liz 10. She's a total BAMF. "I'm the bloody Queen mate. Basically, I rule." Yeah it's an obvious pun but I do not care. She rocks that swishy cape.
Yes they do hit the "DOCTOR = STARWHALE! GET IT! GET IT!" a little too much but I still cried when it first aired (YEAH YOU HEARD ME!).
I didn't catch it until recently but Amy's little recap of all the information that leads to her working out the solution to the plot (the "Notice everything" and zoom in on her eye) is very similar to Eleven's "What did I see?" moment from the last episode. TBH I prefer this version.
Comic Relief FTW!
I also love the design of the Starship UK. The thing that stood out to me the most was the fact that there was even a lollipop lady there.
It's going to take a fair amount to dislodge Comic Relief from my brain (and other.. places) I think… and that's ALL I'm saying on the subject!
I think the Amy recap thing works better as it's less stylized. For the Doctor one they took a D-SLR still camera and shot a bunch of images than turned it into a kinda stop-motion thing. Nice idea, slightly iffy in concept (oddly Moffat would refine the idea in Sherlock). Here we see clips of what's gone before (which is a nice subtle joke too as the companion is meant to be our POV in the story…) and it just fits in better. Plus I think folks were terrified that the 11th Hour 'what did I see' thing would be a running plot point throughout the series.
It was very…interesting.
I was one of those terrified people tbh. Like I said in my comment for that ep, it's too much of a departure from the way the rest of the show is filmed.
Oh, the Comic Relief was brilliant and gave me a nerdgasm. 😀 And funny as hell.
Yes they do hit the "DOCTOR = STARWHALE! GET IT! GET IT!" a little too much but I still cried when it first aired (YEAH YOU HEARD ME!).
Yeah….me, too.
Yes they do hit the "DOCTOR = STARWHALE! GET IT! GET IT!" a little too much but I still cried when it first aired (YEAH YOU HEARD ME!).
I don't think I cried when I first saw it, but the tears were flowing when I rewatched it last night. No idea why, but they were.
Though, I don't think it was that heavy-handed. I mean, you get it brought together when Amy's figuring it out, and then you get her bringing the point home. Not that bad, really.
Gotta love how the plot entirely depended on the TARDIS materializing directly above the starship. Had the Doctor and Amy seen it from any other angle, they would have gone inside and been all "Hey, nice whale you've got there" and the plot would have unraveled rapidly from there. And, of course, it also depended on the Doctor already knowing enough about the Starship UK to recognize it from a top-down view and give a brief history to Amy, but not enough to know it was on the back of a whale.
Seriously, though, really liked this one. It had a starwhale!
The solar flares and accompanying evacuation of Earth mentioned by the Doctor are a callback to the classic series episode "The Ark in Space."
Haha, now I'm picturing that episode. "Nice whale!" "NICE WHAT?!?!?!"
As to the Doctor knowing enough about the Starship to recognize it/describe it but not enough to know about the whale… isn't that often true? Like when Nine knew where to watch the end of the earth and what the viewing stations were, but not that Cassandra would try to hold everyone for ransom etc. I think most of the other episodes with that device had the Doctor offhandedly mention that something was "wrong" with how it was and so it was handwaved.
NEVER STOP MAKING YOUR WONDERFUL EXPRESSIONS, KAREN.
<img src="http://i54.tinypic.com/2mfnhnd.jpg">
FHDSKJAFH This episode. I remember watching this for the first time, and the ending of the episode with Amy and the Doctor hugging and the 'Gotcha' made me fall so hard for this series. And THE CHARACTERS. It never stop with this series. <3
Amy and the Doctor:
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/2u5s86x.jpg">
Almost as adorable as:
<img src="http://i35.tinypic.com/1yn5ex.jpg">
omg kitten!
*ahem*
Why does The Doctor look so much like Simon Tam in the first gif?
Well Mark, now you know what a season of a television show is like when it's run my a man who eats nightmares.
How does this man keep doing this? How does he know precisely what to exploit to make my stomach hurt with anxiety?
Only thing I can figure is the dude bought a house in the Uncanny Valley.
I AM DECLARING THIS AN "AMY POND APPRECIATION POST" Haters, left, yadda, yadda (I dunno… there are always a few, aren't there?)
If "The Eleventh Hour" is about learning to trust the Doctor, then "The Beast Below" is about trusting and believing in his new companion. A while ago, just for fun, I came up with some one-word qualities to describe the New Who companions – Rose had courage and curiosity, Martha was intellect and confidence; Donna was compassion and determination. Amy Pond is intuition and heart. And this episode is a huge reason why. This is her first adventure with the Doctor away from her home and she has no idea of how to cope with it (the Doctor didn't exactly give her "A Companion's How-To Manual for Time and Space Travel," after all), so she's doing the best she can with the knowledge she does have. She feels for the star whale, while at the same time feeling for the people on the Starship UK. She doesn't want the Doctor interfering with what is not a good situation, but how in the world do you make a decision like that? The lives of people on a starship escaping certain death with nowhere else to go or the very last of the star whales that's being tortured in order for those people to escape with their lives?
We also see a little of Ten's rage coming out in Eleven, and that was totally unnerving to me. I mean, I wasn't that far removed from Ten, but seeing Eleven completely freak out on everyone – including Amy – there at the end was very jarring. It was definitely meant to be unsettling in the context of the story. Still a reminder that the Doctor has been "knocking about" on his own for a rather long time by his own choosing and it's still affecting his attitude about having companions.
Also, think about this – Amy has waited for 14 years to see the Doctor again and in her very first outing, she fails him. He's upset with her and threatens to take her back home. If I was in Amy's shoes, I would have collapsed in a heap and just cried right there. But she doesn't. Instead, she works out everything she's seen – even factoring in her own experiences – and pretty much saves the day by taking the third option that nobody – including the Doctor – could see.
This story sold me on Amy Pond. If later she wound up tripping on her own shoelaces and falling flat on her face, I really wouldn't care because she was so brilliant here.
Also – Liz 10 for
PresidentQUEEN of All the Things! I loved her character and I want her to come back at some point (I have a lot of one-off characters I want to see come back, don't I?)On a more personal note –
This story means so much to me personally and I'll tell you why – When I was first watching "Doctor Who" last summer I was having a hell of a time dealing with my parents and just my life situation in general. My parents were fighting over who-knows-what and I was put right in the middle of it and I just didn't know how to deal with everything. My one solace was in watching this remarkable show where this wonderful and strange alien took ordinary human companions and showed them great and grand (and, most of the time, dangerous) sights in time and space. For a while, I thought I should take a break from it because I was going through all the episodes so fast and I was getting a little bit obsessed with it (putting it mildly). But every time I did, something bad would happen and I just couldn't deal with the situation. Seemed like the only thing that helped me cope was delving into "Doctor Who." So, I looked up everything I could online, I watched Classic Who episodes, I listened to Big Finish dramas and audiobooks, I even put together a Tenth Doctor costume for Halloween. I became a student of the fandom because it was something positive for me to get excited about. I was just surrounded by so much negativity and anger that I simply needed something to be happy about. Even if that something was as trivial as a TV show.
So, when Amy gives the line "If you were that old and that kind and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry," I started bawling. Not in the "Ohmigosh-someone's-dying-this-is-horrible" way, but in the "I-finally-know-why-I-love-this-show" way. Because I've done plenty of crying over horrible things in the past year. But I find comfort and solace in these amazing stories and characters.
All of us need hugs from Eleven. 🙁
APPRECIATION POSTS FOR THE FREAKING WIN!
I really enjoyed this episode, personally. As several people before me have said, Eleven is really great with kids, so I like to watch him interact with them. As for Amy … what can I say about her that hasn't been said? She is really amazing, I love her attitude, and her hair, of course 😛 At the beginning, when Eleven is holding out of the Tardis, that moment was so beautifully done, and definitely not something I could have seen either Nine or Ten doing.
Loved the whole "Starship UK" thing, and as I was watching I was dying to know what it was that made Amy hit the "forget" button so fast. Then, when we see the Star Whale and what they've been doing to it, I wished I didn't know either :/ Thank goodness for Amy being able to figure out a better alternative to the Doctor's!
Lastly, I loved the hug at the end! That hug just looked really epic <3
11 is great with kids, and I feel like he looks at Amy as though she's Amelia anyway. So that sort of establishes their relationship.
I like our heroes running around it their pajamas. But Douglas Adams might have influenced that. I mean, you have to work so much harder. If you're wearing a suit, you look important, and people will let you into fancy places. Amy wearing a robe? I wouldn't say hello to someone wearing that in the middle of a spaceship. JS. It's like playing the game on a slightly higher difficulty or something. I should stop rambling now.
I think Amy could go wherever she wants wearing that robe or the police uniform from the last episode.
Well as Douglas did write for Doctor Who at one point I'd like to think it's an affectionate homage. As a side note the TARDIS console keyboard now has a big red panic button on it. Just once, before Matt Smith leaves the show 93 years from now, I'd love to see that get pressed and a towel randomly fly out of the console….
I didn't love this episode at first, but it actually gets better as you watch it more. Most of this is because you really get to see a rapport growing between Amy and Eleven. I love how Amy just dives into things headfirst and is determined to prove her own worth. HATERS TO THE LEFT PLS. I also love that Matt Smith creates such a familiar-yet-different Doctor. Last episode a lot of that could be chalked up to post-regeneration lingering personality effects (lol that makes no snese) but Matt managed to find the joy that we had in early Ten and bring it all back.
Liz 10 = HBIC forever.
Finally,
<img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d173/ppyajunebug/6favz4.gif"/>
SO FREAKING ADORKABLE
Matt & Karen <3<3<3 They're such loveable dorks.
UPVOTE X 1000000000000000000000000000.
THAT GIF. THAT GIF. Please be always as adorable, you two. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
I love that gif!
Karen looks so disappointed when Matt stops.
Awesome GIF is awesome. I love th dorkiness of Matt and Karen (or Kazz as he calls her).
I LOVE THEM SO MUCH.
LOVE THIS GIF SO MUCH
This is my second favourite Confidential GIF. My top favourite is when Karen's doing a dance in her dressing gown, Matt runs over and pushes her like a five year-old, so she runs over and pushes him back. And I'm thinking "You two are like little children who have massive crushes on each other and don't know how to deal with it."
"I didn't love this episode at first, but it actually gets better as you watch it more"
This is my opinon on this entire season/series. Even the stories Id didnt much care for first time through, despite my love for Amy and growing appreciation for 11 as characters…. each rewatch has me appreciating the STORIES more rather than just the characters
Oh mark! Im so happy you've finally made it to season five.
I started watching Dr. Who with you but I finished it ages ago. As much as I love David Tennant, I really think season 5 is my favorite so far!
I should rewatch season 5 with you as sorta count down to season 6.
I love this episode. As obvious as the metaphor is, it's still heartbreaking. The line that kills me the absolute most is when Eleven is describing what he's about to do to the star whale and he mutters, "And then I'll have to change my name, because I won't be The Doctor anymore." Kills me every damn time.
Definitely similar and I think it must be intentional. Both are the second adventure a new doctor goes on with a new companion, and both are in the faraway future of Earth.
’Right then. This isn't going to be big on dignity.’
One of my favorite lines in this series!
The two of them manage to escape with the help of Liz 10, who turns out to be the QUEEN. THE QUEEN HERSELF. They still have the monarchy in the 29th century, everyone. Is that some like super deep commentary or something. Does that anger some of you.
I kind of like it. As far a I know, the Queen doesn't really do too much wrt running the country, other than should the government go totally wacko she can step in and lay down the smackdown to act in the best interest of the people. Kind of like Liz X does here, kinda. Her duty is to act in the best interest of her people – and that's what she does, both while investigating the mystery surrounding the ship and by choosing to forget when she does find out what's going on.
Yeah, she essentially sanctions the torture of the last member of an almost extinct species – but her duty is first to the people of the UK and with what she and her government believe about the starwhale? You can understand why they do it.
Whatever, fuck the haters, I love this episode.
Mostly because AMY POND. Hi Amy, I love you. I agree that she's definitely a match for the Doctor, and I love that she's the one to figure out the thing about the Star Whale (and I LOVE the line about being really old and really kind, IDC if it's not subtle). AMY POND WILL NOT LET YOU GET RID OF HER THAT EASILY, DOCTOR.
Also, how pretty is this episode?
<img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_3lVOb8wvDlE/TWnwDZQtoxI/AAAAAAAABcA/fyWJHsyFcI8/vlcsnap-2011-02-27-01h31m37s162.png">
PRETTY STAR WHALE. Pretty ship. Pretty… crack from Amy's bedroom?
I LOVE that last image. "Aw, lovely happy ending, so pretty–OH FUCK WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?"
Nine was the survivor, Ten was haunted by it but Eleven is moving on.
I loove the way you put it. But yes, this exactly.
Something to remember: Stephen Moffat never runs out of nightmare fuel. You'd think he would, but every time you think he can't possibly come up with something worse, he does.
Also: Winston Churchill and Daleks! Woo~
You'd think he would, but every time you think he can't possibly come up with something worse, he does.
Not adding anything onto this, but OMG this is so correct it's not even funny.
oh god i am never prepared 🙁
No. No you are not.
It's okay, you're not alone.
If we could turn Stephen Moffat's nightmare fuel into actual fuel I'm pretty sure we would never need energy again.
I think Season 5 is the start of a new era of Doctor Who, just as Season 1 (of New Doctor Who) was a start. It is crisper both in dialogue, plot, and visuals (STEVEN MOFFAT, YOU HAVE MY SOUL). Before Season 5, I always associated Doctor Who with a sort of campy, not really TV-TV on the same level as shows outside of the BBC (if that makes sense…I still loved Doctor Who, but it didn't have as big of a budget to grow into something with more punch..). Based on just these two episodes, I think the future of Doctor Who is going to be amazing.
While I don't have experience in the exact same situation I can definitely understand the doubting decisions you've made, even if you're happy where you are in life now. There's always that niggling feeling of what if. I think it's only natural when it comes to potentially life altering decisions.
‘So there are other Time Lords yeah?’ ‘No. There were but there aren’t. Just me now … Long story. There was a bad day, bad stuff happened and you know what I’d love to forget it all, every last bit of it, but I don’t. Not ever.’
Matt's reading of this line totally sold me (not that I wasn't before), I could actually hear 10 in my head as well, and how I imagined he'd do the line. In my mind 10 would have been all clench-jawed and flshing eyes, with anger under it all. Matt's reading, was understated, but so weary and hurting and perfect.
I think that the problem that many people had making the shift from 10 to 11 was because it was such a switch from manic to understated.
Yeah, I agree. I'm someone that the more understated approach works better for, so it was an easy switch for me, but I can understand how someone else might prefer the Ten way.
those that dont remember history are doomed to repeat it… to forget the past, because of the pain of what was lost does a disservice to the sacrifices and contributions of those no longer with us… it hurts to remember but it would infinitely more hurtful to not acknowledge and honor those who made them. That is why we can't forget. Not ever.
Agreed 100%. I loved the way Matt delivered that line.
There's a scene that was released later that goes in between The Eleventh Hour and The Beast Below. I think it's really cute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQNZweeAi8&fe…
"You have a wooden time machine, do you feel stupid?"
Oh, and "So your like a space squid? So that's why you walk like that!"
And about another one million wonderful Amy lines in that video.
I liked this episode. It's not as good as The Eleventh Hour, but I wasn't expecting it to be.
Amy is really easy to love, and I'm pretty sure this Doctor IS LOVE. He's awesome. And the Queen Elizabeth I reference, YOU SLY DOG DOCTOR (Though it was Ten who managed to marry her (and sleep with her?) and it was Eleven who got teased about it. HA!).
I enjoyed this episode. I thought the scene with Amy in space at the beginning was beautiful – I loved all of it. The visuals, her voice over, and the music. (Amy's Theme was playing in the background.) (Amy's monologue at the beginning was at the beginning of the season-wide "Coming Soon" trailer – it certainly grabbed my attention there)
One of the things I was most impressed with on my first viewing was the setting! Britain IN SPACE – the Doctor's explanation was awesome – 'searching the stars for their new home'. The set decorating was well done.
The other thing that really stood out to me in this episode was the end. Amy's monologue and their hug was so cute. :D. (I like that music track a lot too.)
rewatching, I adore this episode. I wasn't the biggest fan at first. However, I do need to say one random thing. There is one big reason why I fell in love with Matt Smith's Doctor and that is his eyes. His eyes seem so OLD to me. I believe in a heartbeat that he's 900 years old.
Oh and Amy Pond is beyond wonderful. That is all!
No great big review from me tonight. (What do you mean `thank God for that?`!) Instead, I offer just this:
So Series Five in its second week
Into the future the travellers leap
From start to end
There are problems, I know
But I really enjoyed the beast below.
(Look, that's the best I can do, OK?)
That is amazing!
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/332193m.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
Brilliant!
<img src=http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/DanaanMI/Gifs/juean8.gif>
<img src=http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/DanaanMI/Gifs/m9ad74.gif>
<img src=http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/DanaanMI/Gifs/master.gif>
<img src=http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/DanaanMI/Gifs/x3vqh.gif>
When Dumbledore, Spike, the Master and Nine all approve, you know you've done something right.
Awesome poem! 🙂
That is a fantastic poem. XD I NEED MOAR UPVOTES FOR IT!
Now you guys are just encouraging me!
Starship UK through space does fly
They choose to forget there's no engine – why?
They tortured the whale
To make the ship go
Until Amy saved the beast below.
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/1495klj.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
And finally, because I'm on a roll:
The whale flew to earth when children cried
Without its help, the Brits would have died
It's old and the last
And kindness it shows
How like the Doctor, the beast below
Why do kids get sent down there if they get a “zero”?
You misunderstood, Mark – the kids don't get sent down there if they get a zero; Timmy got sent down, because he wasn't allowed to use the elevator. 😉
I really, really like this episode. It's a great opportunity for Amy to shine (and, like it's been already said here, it's really HER episode) and earn her place as a companion.
Liz 10 is an UBER-BAMF. Whoever said that royalty can't be cool? (Also – she's black! Nice touch) "I'm the bloody Queen, mate. Basically… I rule." <- one of my top favourite DW lines EVER. I always grin when I rewatch the episode. 😀
"Sorry, checking all the water in the area. There is an escaped fish." 😀
I love how Matt manages to portray all those emotions when asked about his people (and if he ever ran away) with just a few words (I imagine Ten would go into a lengthy angsty monologue, but I like this much better; it's more subtle and effective). Also his anger, when he realises what they'd done to the Star Whale – first it's underplayed, very quiet and sort of "cold fury"; when it finally bursts out ("Nobody human has anything to say to me today!"), it's pretty scary, because Eleven rarely shouts (as opposed to Ten, whose OTT shouting got a bit repetitive and lost its impact somewhat).
So yeah, great episode, very enjoyable. 🙂
The escaped fish is my favourite line.
Or as the Fourth Doctor once put it: "Interfere? Of course we interfere – always do what you're best at."
This was the first Moffat episode that I didn’t enjoy, there was too much in there for a single episode I think.
Amy does call him out! "We don't interfere unless there are children crying, Doctor?" (not exact quote).
The Beast Below!
It has always been a dream of mine to float out in space, so I was really jealous of Amy Pond (granted, it's not like Karen Gillan went out into space, but still) though I was wonder if the Doctor was looking up her nightie… >__>
Anyway, the future!! I like it when they go to the future- I really love it when they go to other planets! For an alien, the Doctor spends a lot of time on planet Earth. But anyway, all of England is in space! Space Britain! Without Scotland, because dammit, they don't need them. BUT WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO THE CHILDREN?! Also, really unfair to condemn this kid because he failed. Maybe something was going on at home? Maybe he was sick? Maybe you guys suck at teaching? Whatever the reason is, was it really necessary to condemn this kid to a frightening fortune teller head?!
I love how the Doctor gives Amy this speech about never, ever interfering and we're all laughing or really confused because when has the Doctor NOT interfered? But then he runs out and comforts this crying child and in that instant I am in love with Matt Smith and David Tennant's presence on Doctor Who is sequestered into a corner of my heart as I focus on this dear man with a bowtie. That is a run on sentence but deal with it.
From then on it just gets more confusing. What is the glass of water? Who is this lady surrounded by them? Also, maybe you should let Amy change out of her nightie? Maybe?
But it gets even crazier as Amy gets sucked up and is shown all this crazy, horrendous stuff that makes her cry and tell her mindwiped self to never ever tell the Doctor because it is too sad. WHAT IS IT?!
And then the episode explodes as we explore the missing kids and people, meet Liz 10 (ILU SOPHIE OKONEDO, YOU BEAUTIFUL WOMAN), and then…!
Space Britain is on a SPACE WHALE. Tell me I am not the only person shouting "MOYAAAAAA, PILOOOOOOOOT" here.
And they are torturing the space whale. WHY TORTURE A SPACE WHALE THAT IS JUST MEAN YOU JERKS. But they are doing it because otherwise the space whale will stop? And they will die? Or it will kill them? I got a bit fuzzy on this part, I haven't got time to rewatch the series with you so I'm going on a year old memory. But the space whale will eat adults but not kids! It will not harm kids! And then they figure out that the space whale WILL HELP THEM WITHOUT TORTURE.
Space Whales are cool. That is why they are called Space Whales and not Space Sharks or Space Orcas. Granted, orcas are neat, but they will bite you in two.
Right then, all that's fixed and then we get to see the Doctor and Amy hug. And it's so nice because the Doctor needs a hug. It hasn't been very long since he regenerated and saved the Earth for the billionth time and lost Donna and everything. He's had a hard time of it and NO HUGS.
I liked this episode, though I am not fond of the puppet fortune teller head things. I'm not sure what purpose they really served, other than to be really fucking scary. I guess to watch people.
SAVE THE STARWHALES!! Now on to my actual thoughts.
So, my first episode of Doctor Who ever was the Eleventh Hour and I was pretty sure I was going to like Doctor Who, but I was still on the fence. This episode sold it for me. I love the interactions with Amy and the Doctor and I love Eleven with the power of a thousand suns. I don't understand the hate for this episode. The little kids are cute, Liz 10 is awesome and I will say I never expected the ending to have a starwhale. That was punch in the face. Basically, I like this a lot episode and rewatch it on BBC reruns unlike some episodes (Why hello there Love and Monsters).
Plus Amy's hair soooo gorgeous. I could stare at it all day. (yes, I know this has been posted a lot, but I don't care)
<img src="http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd375/DoctorWhoGifss3/Doctor%20Who%20Gifs/Hair-flying-1.gif" border="0" alt="amy hair serious Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
Somewhere in me I have a long post about dramatic sense versus world-building sense and how Doctor Who, historically, was plausibly as much influenced by the Theatre of the Absurd as it was by American post-war realist SF.
I would like this to happen.
That's encouraging, thank you. I'll keep thinking about it. I think it'll fit well at the end of this bit of Mark Watches when he's fully caught up, so that's when I'll aim for.
I'll second burritosaurus's interest. 🙂
And I'll add my interest, too. In the meantime, I'll just have to fill in the gaps in your post myself. 🙂
I think this is really true too but that's about all I have to say about it.
Yay for the catch up to Eleven Mark.
After what i thought was a fantastically strong season opener i was a little underwhelmed by this ep first time round, mainly due to what i saw as the timing being off. Maybe this was caused by the cut down to 45 minutes after the one hour specials but after a few reruns and reviewings it has grown on me, still not an all time fave but not the worst.
The whole premise works really well on a number of levels. Adventure, check, fuller introduction of Amy as companion, check, continuation of Doctor mythos, check check and of course there's a healthy dose of political satire thrown in for good measure.
There's a little confusion around the whole 'pressing the forget button, recording a message' bit. I mean when did Amy record that? She seems to press the forget button as soon as she's seen the images but then did it take her a little time to forget? Confused.
What I do like about the ep though and what i like about a lot of Moffat's writing (if you've not seen Coupling, you should!) is the quick fire, non stop, incredibly witty dialogue. "we're checking the water in the area – there's an escaped fish." possibly being my favourite. There is one other moment though that i love and I think it's something that someone questioned in the previous review. Can this Doctor get really angry? Can he show the depth of ancient rage that 9 and 10 could revert to? Could he be that cold, that righteous. I thibnk that this ep shoes he can. "No-one human has anything to say to me today!" was just a little bit chilling and definitely unexpected.
Can't do gifs so you'll just have to imagine them.
There's a little confusion around the whole 'pressing the forget button, recording a message' bit. I mean when did Amy record that? She seems to press the forget button as soon as she's seen the images but then did it take her a little time to forget? Confused.
Well, Amy seems to remember going into the room, right? She's not confused about where she is or how she got there. And the Doctor says it erased about 20 minutes of her memory. So, I think that Amy pressed the forget button (nice to see that Helvetica survives into the future) pretty shortly before the Doctor comes in, but about 20 minutes since she landed in there. This would give her time to sort out the whole recording thing (she can pick locks AND hack futuristic machines?) after seeing what was up.
That's how I've always read the scene, anyway.
That's pretty much what I thought as well.
This episode is kind of unpopular in the fandom, but I enjoyed it. I'll readily admit that it's a bit heavy-handed, and I think it's Moffat's weakest so far, but there was still plenty for me to have fun with and like. I mean, for starters, Eleven and Amy are in it, and they can make anything fun. But then, I'm biased, as they're my favorite Doctor/Companion pair.
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/29n6ptu.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
This is an absolutely gorgeous shot of Amy. I love the color contrast, of the dark blue space as a backdrop for that lovely red hair of hers. I also love that it looks as though she's underwater, as though it's literally a sea of stars behind her (or a Star Ocean; SORRY! XD). It's one of my favorite shots of this series, which, okay… kind of isn't saying much? Because I think series five as a whole is incredibly beautiful to look at, easily the prettiest one so far. The combination of the visuals with more of Murray Gold's fantastic work – Amy's wonderful theme song – makes this one of my favorite moments in the episode. I could watch it again and again just for that.
I also love Starship UK as a setting. It's very very cool and inventive, and looks awesome all over. There are bits that still don't make much sense to me, but I don't care because it's just such a fun location to be in. Moffat's very good at creating these neat places. I also enjoy all the little callbacks to past stuff, like the Magpie Electricals sign and Liz Ten talking about the Doctor's previous encounters with her family.
SPEAKING OF WHOM:
<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/2hntgxv.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
Yes, yes you do. <3 In more than one way. I love Liz Ten, she's one of my favorite minor characters on the show. So badass, and quite lovely too. Another visual from the episode that I really like is our first view of her from behind, as she sits in front of all the glasses of water. The way her cloak spreads out behind her is also reminiscent of water, continuing the pattern of imagery in this episode. It may be flying through space, but Starship UK is still very much a ship, and one that is being piloted by an outer space version of an aquatic creature. All the water imagery feels very appropriate.
The heart of the episode is, of course, Amy, as this is her first real "voyage" with the Doctor. She initially resists approaching Mandy, but once they're together, she just can't help investigating the suspicious things she sees around her. I love her question to Mandy – "And because you're not supposed to, you don't?" Amy Pond, the girl who can't resist a "Keep Out" sign. Because she's not supposed to go somewhere or do something, it only makes her want to do it more. Amy is fantastic in this episode: inquisitive, curious, and observant. She uses her skill at picking locks with a bobby pin (a neat ability that suggests that she's got a long history of breaking and entering places she's not allowed in), and her ability to accurately observe the world around her and the clues being dropped to solve the puzzle here and save the day. She's a fast learner, our Amy, doing exactly what the Doctor tells her to do at the start of the episode: "Use your eyes. Notice everything." She does indeed use her eyes, and her brain, and she notices what seems wrong, what doesn't fit. She takes all those bits of information and pieces them together to understand the whole, resulting in both the star whale and Starship UK being saved. Brava, Amy.
I do understand, though, Eleven's anger at her trying to decide for him what he needs to know. In his position, I wouldn't want anyone to try and "protect" me like that either. It's not right. Additionally, I don't know if it was intended to read this way, but in light of having Journey's End newly fresh in my mind, I find his lines about how it didn't matter if she remembered recording that message because she still did it to be rather poignant. I still hate the way that Donna's story was ended, but it's a lovely thought, a small comfort, to remind myself that although she doesn't remember what she did, it doesn't matter because she still did everything she did. I'd like to think that maybe Eleven was thinking about that here. Again, I don't know what Moffat's intent was in that scene, but it's my headcanon now regardless.
(cont)
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/28tjfqx.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
Their hug at the end is another addition to my "Eleven and Amy Turn Me Into Such a Sap" file. I mean, just look at them! How adorable and sweet are they? They are pretty much made entirely of win and cute and funny. I love their interaction throughout this episode, especially the hilarious scene in the star whale's mouth, this hug, and the little moment in the voting booth when he explains that all the Time Lords are gone. I also really enjoy his line about he doesn't look human, she looks Time Lord, because they came first. Combine that with his line in the extra scene between Eleventh Hour and this episode about how she's an alien from his perspective, and you have a viewpoint that I quite like, that's very much in line with my own. It's one that's not so human-centric, and rightly so.
Speaking of that extra scene: I freaking love it, I think it's so amusing and cute. I love Amy's babbling and all her weird questions and Eleven's reaction to it. Also, there's something about the way he says "You've barely started" that takes my breath away, I think it's the delivery combined with me being shallow again.
Overall, not a particular favorite episode of mine, but I still like it, and enjoy watching it. It's a bit heavy-handed with the comparisons between the Doctor and the star whale, but if the alternative is the "Ten is Jesus" stuff? Yeah, I'll take this any day.
Oh, and –
Ok, like…Karen Gillan and Matt Smith have really attractive faces. It is so distracting.
LULZ YES. TRUST ME, I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL.
Here's where I confess that I was waiting for your comment to agree with everything you say! You always manage to convey what I think of an episode in such a nicer way 😀
Loved your comment about taking Donna into mind. I think I'm going to make it my headcanon as well.
There are bits that still don't make much sense to me, but I don't care because it's just such a fun location to be in.
This, completely.
And what you said about Donna and not remembering doesn't erase what you did–I hadn't thought about it, but it's such a great parallel.
Doctor = Star-Whale > Doctor = Jesus. Agreed.
Additionally, I don't know if it was intended to read this way, but in light of having Journey's End newly fresh in my mind, I find his lines about how it didn't matter if she remembered recording that message because she still did it to be rather poignant. I still hate the way that Donna's story was ended, but it's a lovely thought, a small comfort, to remind myself that although she doesn't remember what she did, it doesn't matter because she still did everything she did.
I love you. This is my headcanon now <3
Oh thank you. Someone who doesn't loathe this episode. I admit it's not the best but still, fandom it's not the worst of Doctor Who. Okay, this is probably totally wrong, but am I the only one who thought during the ep that Liz10 might somehow be a descendant of Mickey and Martha? I know she's monarchy but maybe one of their descendants married into the monarchy somehow. I don't know she just kept reminding me of the two of them with all her awesomeness (aside from the making people forget thing). Plus, the minute she said floppy haircut I pictured Martha telling her Doctor stories and him throwing that comment in, her glaring at him, and that part sticking into the stories somehow. Again, probably way off base but I like to think this is the case.
Again, I found "The Beast Below" to be pretty strong on atmosphere and acting and pretty much gobbledygook plotwise. I do enjoy Karen Gillan and Matt Smith and the general feel of the thing very much, but the writing…wasn't amazing. I still don't get what the Smilers and the sacrifice of "bad" children were there for, really – I guess the sparing of the children was necessary thematically, but overall this is Moffat smushing together lots of elements none-too-coherently again, and he got way too didactic about how the Doctor was just like the space whale can you tell HUH HUH HUH?
But I still enjoyed watching. Except for the really gross bit. You know what I'm talking about. Eugh. 😛
I was going to write this whole long rant, but you pretty much just said it for me. Love Karen and Matt, who bravely soldier through the total nonsense they've been handed, but good lord! This episode make no sense, which is a damn shame, because it has so many good ideas in it. Too many, actually: it's like Moffat dropped ten scripts in a shredder and then put them back together in no particular order and with all the genuine emotion and meaning stripped out. The seventeenth time you hit me with the anvil, it sort of stops being a meaningful experience.
The reviewer at Television Without PIty has a great name for this: "the concept blender".
A favorite kitchen tool of both RTD and Moffat, apparently.
…Man, now I want a smoothie.
Eleven is quickly becoming my new favourite. Nine was, before, but I think that was because he was my first Doctor; and I get the appeal of Ten, but Eleven is just so much more mellow than either of them, in a way. And I like mellow. It's like Eleven realizes very little is solved with screaming, and so he's much more inclined to go with the flow of things…
Eleven is quickly becoming my new favourite. Nine was, before
That was what I felt throught Season 05. Nine remained my Doctor until Eleven and I was quite (nicely) surprised to find myself loving him as much and even more than Nine.
You are me!
I am you!
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together, eh? 😉 Goo goo g'joob…
I am both of—er—-thee?
I think a lot of people who love Eleven were previously devoted to Nine.
I think so too, Nine was still my Doctor by the end of Ten's run and I'll probably always wish we had more time with him. And then Eleven became my Doctor in the garden scene with Amelia.
So much of my love for Eleven has to do with his dynamic with wee Amelia.
I'll probably always wish we had more time with him
One small season! Not enough ;_; /imagines a wonderful AU with Nine wondering around time and space with Donna
So true. I have a great deal of affection for Ten and Eleven, but Nine is still my Doctor, and one little series was not enough. If we do not get a multi-Doctor story involving Nine at some point, I will be unspeakably disappointed.
Nine was just wonderful, I wish we could've had at least two seasons.
And guh, YES PLEASE. The three new doctors? Nine, Ten and Eleven in one place, oh my!
I dare not hope for such a wonderful thing…
Alas, we can dream!
Eight too, while we're praying to Santa. Talk about not getting enough time with a Doctor!
Poor Eight! I keep forgetting about him. But yes ): He got the worst end of the deal /adds him to the dream setting!
Yeah, Eight deserves inclusion in the proper series, not just that lousy movie.
Eleven has a similar goofiness that I mostly loved about Nine.
Let's raise hands? XD
*presses hands against the mirror*
Hey hot stuff!
THIS. *upvotes to infinity*
My first Doctor was Ten, he made me fall in love with Doctor Who – but I feel now that Eleven is MY Doctor.
Yeah, Eleven being more mellow and less shouty is DEFINITELY one of the many reasons he's my Doctor. I'm a bit sensitive to noise and hate shouting, so this new quieter (usually) Doctor is soothing to my nerves.
"I'm a bit sensitive to noise and hate shouting, so this new quieter (usually) Doctor is soothing to my nerves."
Yikes, I wish I could upvote this more. I have fibromyalgia, so noise HURTS like someone taking a vegetable peeler to my skin. Eleven's method of handling stress is far better for me.
Ouch. 🙁 All the hugs!
Hello there, me! I loved Nine, could understand why people loved Ten, but Eleven is just amazing. Though now that I've watched more Classic Who, Two is my second favorite.
Maybe it's all the scenes with Amelia, but Eleven feels friendlier to the kiddies. Nine and Ten would be nice to kids, of course, but it feels like Eleven just *gets* kids, and I have a pretty childish sense of humour/curiosity/wonder about most things. Eleven is the Doctor one could have a tea-party with and everyone would enjoy it immensely. Nothing is beneath Eleven's dignity, in terms of silliness. –Geronimo, indeed!
Eleven would fingerpaint. Eleven would hang upside-down from the monkey-bars. Eleven would carve his mashed potato into shapes. Eleven would…eat fish fingers dipped in custard.
Amy's grown up? Eleven can help with that. ^__^
That's a really good point and probably part of why I identify with him/respond to him so much. That's basically the way I interact with kids; I swear some of the kids I volunteer with get a bit embarrassed by my goofiness but they love it anyways and really open up to that attitude. It's just a joy to watch on screen, and props to Matt and to Moffat for writing the children and the relationships so well. 😀
I hadn't noticed that! Loving the parallel.
I enjoyed this episode too, especially the whole bit about the Doctor knowing about children, it really emphasizes his real age and his past. He's a softie at heart. <3
I really liked this episode on a visual level.
The Smilers:
<img src="http://oi51.tinypic.com/n5rfbp.jpg">
The Winder-Smiler:
<img src="http://oi52.tinypic.com/fypqhy.jpg">
And of course Liz X*:
<img src="http://oi55.tinypic.com/n5re4y.jpg">
I also liked the beginning of the episode a lot, and the ending a fair bit. The Doctor extrapolating "police state" from the little girl crying was a wonderful scene, and you get a little glimpse of what Moffat meant when he told Matt Smith that he'd make a good Sherlock. And then of course, there's Amy.
But I wish the Winders and Smilers had gotten more play in this episode (or been left out completely), since they were sort of just there. I'd guessed what was happening with Liz X pretty earlier on, so I thought it was a pretty sure bet that she 1) wouldn't get hurt and b) would be able to fix everything by the end of the episode, or at least iii) would stand back and let the Doctor fix it. And since I realized what was going on, the scene where she realizes the truth for herself had less emotional impact and suspense for me than it probably should have. I think this episode would've been more interesting as a two-parter, perhaps with Liz X having her memory wiped again at the end of the first part to make the conclusion seem less certain, though I'm not sure if there's actually enough *plot* here to make that work.
The whale was a genuine surprise, but seeing the image of it just made the whole thing incredibly silly to me: they're calling it a whale, but it has a very stubby body with three very thin pairs of flippers and tentacles like a squid but with scorpion stingers on the ends. Oh, and it has fangs and an anglerfish head. To me, the whale itself looks far less air-worthy than the Starship UK itself. I think it would've been far better to scrap the images of the whale and just leave it to the imagination.
At the end, though, I actually like this episode, even though it's obviously not without its problems.
*And it's nice to have all my bandwidth sucked dry in less than a week by a single image, one that I haven't even posted yet. This gif used to be really long and luxurious, but I had to cut it down quite a bit so it could be uploaded into Tinypic.
I mentioned this yesterday, but I didn't know how to upload photos (and I still don't, but that's ok because this is quite large and I don't want to take over the entire page with it anyway) so I thought I'd provide a link (which I hope also works, I'm terrible at these things). I saw this on Fandom March Madness, absolutely no clue who originally made it so if someone could provide that information it would be lovely. But the point is, [URL =http://img15.imageshack.us/i/eleventigger.jpg/]the Doctor is Tigger.[/URL] You may commence scraping your brains off the wall, providing I didn't just send you to the end of the internet.
Oh look, I failed.
http://img15.imageshack.us/i/eleventigger.jpg/# Commence copy and paste.
This bit isn't about Doctor Who, it's about Harry Potter, so please bear with me. I got the best news last week and i need to share it with you guys. I've won the Blu-ray DVD competiton on the Harry Potter UK Facebook page! On the 10th of April i'm going to London to a special screening of Deathly Hallows part one and the cast will be there! There'll be a Q and A with the cast and then i get presented with my prize of a numbered (out of only 100) and personalised copy of the DVD! I'm so excited and absolutely terrified! I've never won anything, ever! and i've never been to London before, ekkkkkkkkkk. Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
*ahem*
Okay, back to Who.
The first time i watched this episode i was like 'what?! what the hell was that?! What are you trying to say? What am i suppose to think? My brain iz confuzzled.' I totally didn't get it, didn't like it, thought it was too out there and far too weird. Then i watched it for a second time a couple of hours later and really enjoyed it and actually quite liked it! It feels a bit like 'The End of the World' from series one, which i really like. It's a bit daft and silly and out there but it has a serious message at it's heart………..don't capture giant spacewhales…………or something. I fail at spotting the meanings and messages!
I ADORE the shot of Amy floating in space, it's gorgeous and she looks so happy, i would be completely freaking out if it was me! They went and ruined the gorgeous shot though, by putting the director's name underneath Amy. I make videos and trying to get a clip of Amy floating in space without the director's name underneath was a right kerfuffle! I had to cheat in the end and use a clip from one of the trailers. There's an extra scene on the DVDs that is suppose to explain why Amy is floating in space but, for me, it didn't really explain much so i'm still a bit confused about that moment.
I love the sets and all the props.
Am i the only one to have noticed that Bliss (bless Bliss) from 'Love and Monsters' is the girl in the bicycle thingy??
Love Liz 10, she's a cockerney BAMF! With a cape. And a gun. And a mask.
I love the little flash of anger from the Doctor, even if it is misplaced. I love that he stills has a darkside and he isn't always fun and exciting and bouncy.
I love that Amy figures it out and saves the day.
The Smilers are creepy and weird and DO NOT WANT, especially the angry face they do, that would make me runaway and hide!
The Doctor and Amy's hug is adoreable. I love the "gotcha." They're so cute together.
When Amy's explaining about the Star Whale towards the end "it couldn't bear to watch your children cry." It made me cry! It was lovely.
Love the concept of the Star Whale. And it/he/she looks really cute and sparkley!
It was the Doctor Who Confidential episode that came after this that made me fall in love with Karen Gillan, she's bonkers and really funny! Love her <3
The shot of the crack at the end is a bit like 'LOOK, A CLUE. HAVE YOU NOTICED THE CLUE? ARE YOU SURE YOU'VE SEEN IT? PAUSE IT AND LOOK AGAIN.' Less is more ya know!
Churchill baby!
I'm off to donate to Comic Relief now, bye bye!
Holy crap! Congratulations! =D I hope you have a wonderful time!
JEALOUS. Have fun!
Congratulations! 🙂 London is a great city, have fun!
Oh, wow! Congratulations on the Harry Potter win. Sounds exciting!
There's a neat scene on YouTube that bridges "The Eleventh Hour" and "The Beast Below". It's 3:17 long and amazing. No spoilers, and it has a really fantastic line from 1:05 to 1:27. REALLY FANTASTIC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaOPe4emP9Y
YESSSSSSSS I was just about to post this! I love it dearly xD
I love Liz 10 so hard. I like to think that the UK still has a monarchy into the 29th Century because NOBODY ELSE DOES. Just like “Fuck you, we have a QUEEN. And KNIGHTS.”
This episode cemented Eleven as one of my top three Doctors. He’s so kind and charming, but he can also carry the sad and angry.
MATT IS ON MA TELLY RN #comicrelief
I do love this series 🙂
OMG it was so saucy! He did a pelvic thrust!
OMG, this Comic Relief special gave me such a nerdgasm! 😀 (I used to study Physics) It was brilliant and hilarious, and it's frustrating that we can't talk about it here, because of spoilers, so I think I'll just post in the spoilers forum… 😉
I lumped that point in my mind under 'respectful portrayal', but it is an important point and bears acknowledgment.
I also appreciate that she's a heroic older (by TV standards) woman who, again, doesn't die.
I loved the joke that Scotland chose to use a separate speaceship as well.
ahahaha you know we would too. It's a devolution spaceship!
First post here. I feel like I should quality what I'm about to say with the following: I am not a massive RTD fan, by any means. My general relationship can be summed up by telling you this: I don't see my family very often, so when we gather for Who, it tends to be for special occasions like premieres, finales, and Christmas specials. Under RTD, I had no qualms with joining in with the general embarassment about what we just watched. Under Moffat, I feel ever so slightly guilty about agreeing with the general feeling of, "Yeah, that was alright." (TEH aside, we all agreed that was awesome.)
So it's with a heavy heart that i have to compare The Beast Below with The End of the World. But I am forced to because it's the same story: a companion, having previously met the Doctor as an oddball in their own time, is taken away from their unsatisfying life and – in this episode – is forced to cope with a future time, as well as coming to certain realisations about their relationship, or lack of thereof, with the Doctor.
So that's where the problems start. In TEotW, ample time is given to Rose's culture shock. We're allowed to feel for her as she incomptently navigates an utterly alien world, as well as gradually and naturally reaching the point where she begins to question the Doctor as well. At the end of the episode, events have forced the Doctor to reveal certain aspects of his personality to her – and this has caused him to voluntarily disclose aspects of his history to her as well.
In TBB, Amy is given one shot – really, one shot – to accomodate the future of her species. Yes, we're five series in now, so we can justifiably spend less time on the *new companion freaking out*, but I still feel shortchanged from a character perspective. She's almost instantly separated from the Doctor, and, despite spending almost no time with him in this episode, returns in time to deliver several monologues about his personality.
It just… It doesn't feeel earned. It doesn't feel like she's had enough experiences with him to intimiately understand his personality – enough to risk millions of lives on a gamble with his whims and predlictions as the stake.
By the end of TEotW, I felt like Rose and Nine had bonded. By the end of TBB, I feel like Moffat is forcing me to feel like Amy and Eleven had bonded. The comparison makes TBB look embarassingly inept, even though the production, the plot, and everything other than the character dynamics surpasses TEofW by leaps and bounds.
But a series is nothing without convincing characters.
It just… It doesn't feeel earned. It doesn't feel like she's had enough experiences with him to intimiately understand his personality – enough to risk millions of lives on a gamble with his whims and predlictions as the stake.
I wish I could explain, but… spoilers. 🙂
It doesn't feel like she's had enough experiences with him to intimiately understand his personality
No, she hasn't had the experiences with him to understand him, but she did have 14 years to think about him. And dream about him. And make dolls of him. And write about him. And make her (boy)friend cosplay as him. I think Amy's thought a lot about what makes the Doctor the Doctor, at least in the glimpses she's seen, and I imagine she spent those two years between the Atraxi eyeball and the night before her wedding thinking even more about the Doctor. I wouldn't be surprised if she spent nights laying in bed, going over everything that happened, analyzing what it all means.
Sure, she's mostly taking a guess, but it's a well-thought-out guess, after a lot of study.
Yep, my thoughts exactly!
What I like about this episode, apart from Amy being proactive and actually saving the day without being punished for it, is Eleven's description of the Time War: "It was a bad day. Bad stuff happened. And I try not to think about it but I don't ever forget." And that was IT. I was so relieved that he hadn't started angsting, I almost missed the rest.
I love how 11 never really looks back in any sense. When he apologizes to someone, it's really just to move on and keep everything going.
Hell, even his "catch phrase" is all about jumping right in to possible danger. If you look at 9 and 10 as The Doctor's midlife crisis then 11 is like his elderly second childhood.
I'm with you there.
I really like the middle of this comment and I totally agree I like an imperfect Doctor and I like that everything isn't rainbows right off the bat between him and Amy and she actually has to prove herself to him. This is my first time watching this ep after I've actually seen the first four seasons and good call about his past companions and cynicism towards humanity. I thought this ep was okay the first time I saw it but it's a lot sadder now that I know everything, even if it is really beating us over the head with it.
I much prefer an imperfect Doctor, especially if when we are given enough information to not only love him despite his imperfections, but to also love the imperfections themselves.
Point of order: None of my comments or replies in the last 24 hours or so seem to be going through here. I don't know if they're getting caught in the spam trap or just being trapped in the Void between universes, but I'd like to be able to comment with you lovely people! Help!
(Or, is there something I'm doing wrong to cause this? If so, tell me how to fix it… or what not to do or something. I'm dyin' here!)
ETA: Thanks to artic_hare, my comments that were languishing in the
Voidspam filter have been rescued. On top of that, my new comments are coming through. So, thanks to whoever soniced me! Yay!I don't know if it's a good thing that this episode follows all the fantasticness of the Eleventh Hour, or a bad thing. I suspect it looks the worse by comparison, but then, knowing just what fantastic things the people on this show have already demonstrated they can do was enough to keep me watching after the thorough mediocrity of this episode.
Here are the positive things I do have to say:
This episode… uh, it does some nice things to establish characterisation, I'll say that. For example, Amy saves the day by being attentive to detail and able to synthesise what she knows quickly and productively. Which, in addition to a propensity to ask intelligent questions and wander off, are great and necessary traits for a companion. 😉 The Eleventh Doctor seems to be a very bad liar (oh yes, I'm sure he just observes), good with children, unconcerned with personal dignity (that's a nice change of pace after Ten, eh?), and willing to consider difficult solutions that minimize suffering for all.
So, OK. Eleven and Amy are awesome and smart. Yay? Yay!
Here's something fun!
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/5cwz2q.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
(Ten WOULD think that, wouldn't he? Eleven would just giggle at the implications, I think!)
Fridge Logic (and not the good kind) below! If you liked this episode, you may want to skip this bit.
This episode MAKES NO SENSE. What's up with the winders and the smilers? The carnivalesque atmosphere? Uh, it looks neat? No seriously, Starship UK is a police state and all the police looks like monks and/or clowns and/or creepy monk/clown hybrids WHY? Sure it's visually interesting and I'm sure lots of us have mild coulrophobia, but if this is how you're going to make your vision of a futuristic a police state look, it might behoove you to throw in a line or two about WHY IT TOOK THAT PARTICULAR FORM. My experience with writing difficulties that you can solve a lot of gaps in thought with one well constructed sentence, people, it shouldn't be hard. But in the absence of that well constructed sentence, you get WTFery that makes me want to shake whoever wrote this episode by the shoulders. HARD. NOTHING ABOUT THE INTRODUCTORY SEQUENCE MAKES SENSE OR IS NECESSARY TO THE PLOT, except to look cool/be creepy. Thanks for wasting that two minutes of the episode that you could have been doing something awesome with.
The commentary on democracy and willful ignorance: potentially neat, except for the fact that it also makes no sense. Starship UK is built around the last starwhale, which must be tortured to survive? Great.. uh… but clearly not really necessary for the survival of the British people, since all the other countries managed to make their own starships without the help of starwhales. All that technological evolution, and nothing else was possible? Did England become considerably poorer in the centuries between the present and the setting of this episode, such that Scotland could afford to get out sans starwhale, but not the rest of Great Britain? How do they know what the Starwhale is, and what it's offering them, if they can't seem to communicate with it otherwise? (And thus, alleviating the need to torture it.) No really. By all means, comment on democracy and willful ignorance, but can you please give me a setting with a conundrum/moral difficulty that ACTUALLY MAKES SOME SENSE? Because the necessity for the Starship UK to be powered by the starwhale, and to torture the starwhale to keep going, is just REALLY POORLY ESTABLISHED. This causes me to NOT GIVE A FUCK.
Also, how is it a good commentary on democracy/willful ignorance if Elizabeth X has been giving the orders autocratically (while herself ignorant) and Starship UK is a police state? (I'm not even going to start on Liz 10, because um, much like this episode, she wears many of the trappings of cool without concretely demonstrating that she IS cool… which leaves me with little to say.)
So uh, yeah. On a scale of mindblowingly great (The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances; Army of Ghosts/Doomsday; Midnight; The Eleventh Hour) to pretty good (nearly all of S4) to enjoyable, but I don't feel the need to rewatch it (the first half of S3, for me; the weaker parts of S1 like Aliens of London), to WHY GOD WHY (Fear Her; The Lazarus Experiment; Planet of the Dead), I rank this episode… uh, pretty close to Fear Her actually. Probably slightly above, only because it DOES do useful things to establish the Doctor and Amy and their relationship, and does NOT include anything nearly as cheesy as the Olympic Torch sequence. On the other hand, it include totally awful vomit sequences, which are a different kind of bad but still… bad.
Wow, thank you downvoters for allowing me to have what I think is a reasonably well argued opinion that you happen to disagree with!
Pretty unbelievable. Are you a downvote magnet, or something? I just don't get the downvoting thing. My comment keeps getting downvoted too, so you have company.
For the record, I agree with your opinion of the episode. There were elements of the episode I enjoyed, but it wasn't one of the better ones by any stretch. Thank you for pointing out that Liz X had the trappings of cool without actually *being* cool, because while I liked her entrance I couldn't figure out why she was so limp until you mentioned this.
I wonder, if we get enough downvotes do we get sent to the Beast Below?
Solidarity in Unpopularopinionville!
I wonder, if we get enough downvotes do we get sent to the Beast Below?
I don't know, but give me a shout if children start chanting creepy rhymes at you for no apparent reason. I'll keep an eye out for angry clowns…
Well, yours truly of the USS Enterprise just upvoted you! So there, silly petty downvoters!
Thank you arctic! 😀
Enterprisers Unite! I had already upvoted the comment just because of the lovely Eleven/Ten fanart before I saw the reply about downvoting. I would have upvoted again if I could!
Meh, I don't really care for downvoters – it happens all the time. Just ignore it. 🙂
Pretty much!<img src=”http://i55.tinypic.com/2mc6fqe.jpg” border=”0″ alt=”Image and video hosting by TinyPic”>
I used to be a clown. I get some really sadistic joy when people are afraid of them.
I am a horrible person.
That's totally brilliant. (Mostly benevolent) sadism is a reason to become a clown that had somehow never occurred to me.
Aw, and I thought you were a "Good Guy"! (Kidding, I feel bad for clowns getting shunned. Even though they scare me to death.)
I used to be terrified of clowns too, they are creepy. I blame It.
While I agree with some of what you say, and much of what you base your opinion on, I disagree vehemently with the conclusions you draw. But I shall upvote you because your opinion is articulate and well-argued, for all that I remain unconvinced by it.
I think the whole upvote/downvote thing is hideously ambiguous in purpose anyway. The simple fact that the buttons involve a thumbs up and a thumbs down suggest that ita mounts to 'I ilke this' and 'I don't', which isn't really what's wanted. Downvoting a cogent argument one disagrees with is just petty. The converse occurs too though – looking at which comments are massively upvoted it seems to me that they kinda split equally between the well-stated 'quality' comments, the purely amusing (arguably another type of 'quality') and Stuff A Lot of People Agree With. Having said that, any upvotage any of my comments have ever received seem to have been generated almost randomly, so what do I know? *shrugs*
Nicely explained, I completely agree with you.
Thank you! I can usually ignore/rationalize my way around plotholes, but only when they are smaller than the Starship UK 😉
In that way, the idea of a Queen of at least partly African descent is wonderfully subversive. Bear in mind that it is currently against the law for the Monarch to become or to marry a Catholic.
Yeah! That was DEFINITELY an awesome thing.
Yeah, my decision to go to grad school ended a six-year relationship. Granted, that relationship was probably doomed for a lot of other reasons anyway, but there's something about the choice to explore and travel that dooms you to a certain depth of loneliness, and very few brave souls willing to be your companion for a life of adventure and learning. (Here I am, ABD, staring down 30, living in a foreign country, and the most single I've ever been. I feel you.)
On the other hand, this makes me identify more with the Doctor than any of his companions in particular.
I'm 32 now, single (and loving it), living with my cat and a friend and her cat in north Seattle. Sometimes I think about going back to school or getting involved in politics, or just getting in my truck and going somewhere else. I've no idea where I'll be at this time next year, and most of the time, I like it that way. The cultural expectation is that we find someone, get married, settle down, have children, and then they repeat the cycle. But you know what? It's not a requirement, and there's lots of other stuff in this world to see and do.
AMEN to bucking cultural expectations. I'd rather live my life to the fullest I can than settle down quietly. My parents hope I 'grow up' some day and get married, but I'm almost 38 and happy to be (mostly) untethered (in a polyamorous relationship, but we are both happily independent people).
Power to ya!
I guess I'm in situation that is almost a polar opposite. I'm in my mid 20s, *can't* work, and here the expectation is that a woman should have a few college degrees and a full-time job. I have people tell me that I "don't have an identity", am "sponging off society", or worse, that I'm "a hypochondriac". (I'm disabled, though not receiving Disability from the govt, because apparently young people *never* have anything bad happen to them.)
I'm glad to see that you're taking your destiny in your own hands, and not worrying about what society wants you to be! I get tired of a culture telling us what a woman "is" and "isn't" meant to do.
Wow, that's a really stinky position to be in. I hope you manage to get something sorted out. I have a couple of friends who are in similar situations, though they are now in their 30's, and I see a bit of how frustrating it is for them.
But obviously socialism is evil and if you really *wanted* a job, you'd go get one. < /sarcasm > (Sorry; I get an earful of way more Conservative rhetoric than I can stand a lot of the time)
Seriously, though, how can people accuse you of sponging if you're not actually receiving benefits?
What I will say is about the Doctor. I love that he yells at Amy about how wrong it was that she chose for him. I disagree with him, but I think it just shows how he's still hurting after everything that's happened to him lately and why he's been traveling alone. After sending Rose off with his creepy clone and wiping Donna's memory in particular, I think her actions would just remind him why he didn't want another human companion.
It's funny, the Doctor can dish it out, but he can't take it. How dare anyone else make decisions for him!!
Fortunately for us and the Doctor, Amy turns out to be RIGHT.
Alright, so I'll say right here and now that I'm a wee bit drunk. Nevertheless.
This episode meant the world to me when it aired, and still does. I was in the midst of writing my dissertation and hoping to finally, finally, finish my degree. I'd never really been into Who before I watched The Eleventh Hour and fell hopelessly in love with Eleven. So, throughout those long last months of my degree, Doctor Who on a Saturday were my lifeline.
This episode aired about a month before the General Election in the UK, the first one I was old enough to vote in. I know it's easy to get swept up in political fever before an election but for me, that year, that time, the idea of having such a simple choice – forget or protest – was intoxicating. Imagine if it was that simple. Imagine if elections were as simple as registering your discontent rather than having to make an informed choice.
I guess now, almost a year on, it's difficult to articulate what this episode meant to me at the time. But I will always, despite the disappointments, associate this episode with that very primal, irrational but important emotion that says 'this is not right and I will have to do something about it'. Regardless of how you vote, that's an important gut instinct to follow. This time last year was terrible for me but I felt such incredible hope (for me, for everything) watching this episode. Nothing changes that.
And now, bed.
Speaking as a brit? Me and my mates all cheered at Liz 10. FUCK YEAH ROYALS, AND HOLY SHIT SHE'S BEING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We mock and moan and whine about our royal family, but on the whole we love them, and Liz 10 being her ruling self was like one giant WHOOOOOOOOO.
I remember being a little eyebrow-raisey about how quickly Amy "got" the Doctor, it seemed like she probably shouldn't have reached quite that level of knowing him so quickly, but that little niggle was just blown away by the episode as a whole, so I just couldn't bring myself to care too much. And I fully agree about the Smilers. Screaming forever, why would you even, etc etc. )B
Oh, and for the record – to quote from the tvtropes page: "the short story The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas by Ursula K. Le Guin tells a similar tale, in which a utopia is only made possible by keeping one person, in this case a child, in perpetual misery and torment. Everyone gets told when they reach adulthood. "The Ones" who object are never seen again." The episode ends much happier than the story did. :c
As a massive Ursula K. Le Guin fan, I must say that that's not entirely accurate. In "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas", nobody who objects gets "disappeared" like they do on Starship UK. It's just like in the title, a very few people who see the child just turn and walk away, and continue walking until they leave Omelas. In that story, it's very much a conscious, personal choice to leave and not participate anymore, as opposed to being punished by the powers that be for refusing to collude, as in this episode. If I may quote the last lines of the story:
"At times one of the adolescent girls or boys who go to see the child does not go home to weep or rage, does not, in fact, go home at all. Sometimes also a man or woman much older falls silent for a day or two, and then leaves home. These people go out into the street, and walk down the street alone. They keep walking, and walk straight out of the city of Omelas, through the beautiful gates. They keep walking across the farmlands of Omelas. Each one goes alone, youth or girl, man or woman…They go on. They leave Omelas, they walk ahead into the darkness, and they do not come back. The place they go towards is a place even less imaginable to most of us than the city of happiness. I cannot describe it at all. It is possible that it does not exist. But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas."
[/irrelevant digression]. But I love my Le Guin and do not want to see her work misrepresented :-).
Deleting this, because it is spoilery for a future Mark Watches project.
Oh snap. You're quicker on the draw than I am. I was just about to grab this one. heh. I'm sad that it's a spoiler since Mark is planning on watching Buffy because it did genuinely make me lol.
Me too. It was very funny, and I was thinking along the same lines as Stuart. I felt really bad that I had to delete it!
I was trying to invoke said reference in a non-spoilery manner. Sorry I provoked spoilerage!
It's all good. I think we were all thinking the same thing. We'll just have to content ourselves with the knowledge of our awesome reference-making abilities without actually making the references!
!!! I missed it; one of you post it on ELSOS' blog plz
Done. Stuart, and everyone else, please feel free to join us if you wish! http://markspoils.blogspot.com/2011/03/mark-watch…
Sorry for spoilerage. Hadn't occurred to me that there might be people who hadn't watched it – or in particular that Mark might be one of them! Oops!
It's all good, and it was funny!
Ahahaha I know exactly what this deleted comment said. WHEE
My parents have been married since 1971, but I don't think I would want their marriage at all. I feel like, while it provided a stable home environment while I was growing up, neither of them ever really seemed entirely happy, and it never felt to me like an example of what an affectionate and respectful relationship should look like. Maybe my lack of good examples is part of what makes me feel so uncomfortable about the idea of marriage. Disney kept telling us "happily ever after", but I just had to look at my parents (and my grandparents, come to that) to see it wasn't that simple.
As for the archaeology….yeah. I've been doing it more or less steadily for about five years now (you come to expect several months of unemployment every year or so). Weather is the bane of my existence. It's too hot or too cold or too wet, and you've still got to go out every day and suffer through it for a paycheck that is probably about half what it should be. Seriously, this is a profession that requires a specific college degree and training, and you can expect to make around $14/hr, and most of the time there's no benefits to go with that because jobs only last a few weeks or months. 90% of the time, you find absolutely nothing (9% of the time you find fairly boring stuff; it's only 1% that you actually find anything remotely interesting).
Sorry; feeling a little pessimistic about my job at the moment. I've just spent the last few weeks doing 12ish hour days watching guys in heavy machinery move dirt "just in case" something gets turned up. It's a bureaucratic requirement that I be there. I don't feel like I'm doing anything, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the crew resent the need for me, and think of me as nothing more than a pointless hassle.
It would be pretty damn nervy of me to blame you for feeling pessimistic! It's a tough field.
I hope things pick up for you, for what it's worth.
Tell me why!
Mondays always feel like 2 days, which makes 8 Days a Week.
This episode always makes me cry ugh BUT IT'S OKAY because it's one of my all-time favorites.
>I was already pretty hooked on Eleven (unlike my boyfriend, who spent the first three episodes telling me that Matt Smith kept copying David Tennant).
I know someone who keeps saying that about Matt. When he says it, I give him one of my `Are you insane?` looks. I don't get it.
Like/dislike/ambivalent I can deal with, but `copying David Tennant`? *look*
Some opinions about this episode.
-I LOVE LOVE LOVE Liz 10, omg. I wasn't particularly bothered by there being a monarchy still, because she has approximately the same amount of power current British monarchs have (almost none), and it's not like she lives an extravagant life that's a drain on the taxpayer, you know?
-I was, however, bothered by the assumption that Northern Ireland would still be separate from the rest of Ireland in the 29th century. That… actually kind of pissed me off. I was glad Scotland got its own ship, but how, in the course of EIGHT CENTURIES, has Ireland not been reunited? It invites a lot of deep and troubling thought that I'm sure Moffat didn't mean, but that's just too bad. For a single reference, it holds a lot of weight.
I thought the same thing about Ireland.
i really liked this episode, even if it is a bit plot hole-y. after falling in love with amy and eleven, i was happy to see them get to know each other for real, and i love me some dystopias. and liz 10!
but man, what is it with sci fi and NOBLE SPACE WHALES? jesus christ, they show up EVERYWHERE.
"I was confused by the Doctor’s immediate reaction of rage and disgust at Amy. I understood that the Doctor didn’t like being out of the loop, but Amy quite literally forgot what she had seen. She didn’t maliciously keep this information from him. It’s just unfortunate how the Doctor had been through this situation before, where he had to choose between letting one being survive over others. I get that he would be upset at having to make a decision like this, but I feel he unfairly assigns all the blame to her. I mean…LIZ 10 DID IT. YOU SHOULD BE MAD AT HER, DUDE."
Someone has probably already covered this in one of the 300 some odd comments before mine, but if not, I'll shed my thoughts on this. I believe the Doctor's anger is directed at Amy because she's his companion and that she chose to protect him and forget. The Doctor's companions are held to a higher standard that the unlucky billions like us who do not get to travel with him. Amy didn't maliciously withhold information from the Doctor, she did so out of the horror of what she had seen. The Doctor has been around for so long. He is not one, in his mind, to be protected. He is the protector, and he needs all of the information he needs in order to do what he does. When someone keeps him from knowing the truth, especially if that someone is close to him, he has a tendency to get angry.
Going back to what you said, Mark, she did forget, but the point is that she chose to, and that makes all the difference.
Oh, I DO think some previous doctors would have done the "hold Amy's foot while she floats outside the TARDIS" but not the post Time War Doctors. 11 seems very much the logical next doctor after 9 and 10, especially now that Ten wrapped up the time war (I think… not a spoiler but heck you never know), and this time, he was not alone. He had a big fall, but he was 'saved' at the end. So 11 comes out of that.
Still, I could picture four doing this sort of thing, easily.
I found this episode a little choppy, like some scenes were missing, which I found out later, they were. There was a bit cut from this, that probably would have explained some things.
I loved the bit of NINE that came out in 11 in this ep too… the angry doctor is not gone completely, going on about humans. Though Ten did that now and then as well. But the doctors' FURY and even the way he held his arms at the end, looking out the window, was a dash of nine coming out in 11.
I felt the bit about 'last of your kind' was overdone. Yup, got that the first time, didn't need to hear it over and over. But that's a minor nit pick.
One thing Mark… NOTICE EVERYTHING. Just… do.
I could've sworn that there usually no Doctor Who posts on Fridays in favor of Fringe.Which…shows how much I've been paying attention lately. orz
Anyway, the smilers are DO NOT WANT and Liz 10 is FREAKING AWESOME.
And nobody pointed out that the star whale carrying a country on its back could be a shout out to Discworld?
"What? What?! What?!"
did anyone notice the sign from the idiots lantern in this episode? Magpies electrical
Pingback: family vacation ideas
Pingback: car price guide
nice blog, very resourceful. I like it in deed. I come acoss the site by google search engine. I would visit your site oftenly and forward it to my gangs. Please keep it fresh. Keep on the good work. – A friend from abroad
Pingback: property casualty insurance license
wonderful article, very interesting. I like it in deed. I come acoss this writing by baidu search engine. I could read your site oftenly and share it to my pals. Please keep it updated. Keep on the good work. – A apple fun
Hello, you used to write magnificent, but the last several posts have been kinda boring¡K I miss your tremendous writings. Past several posts are just a little bit out of track! come on!
Pingback: Google
This unique site is awesome. I continuously come across something fresh as well as different appropriate right here. Thank you for that data.
Pingback: garmin 1490t best price
Pingback: Investment opportunities
Pingback: Boston lofts
Pingback: Travel Offers
Pingback: forex exchange