In the fourth episode of the third season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, WELL ALL OF THIS IS UNEXPECTED. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Buffy.
I’m sure you all know this already, but if you happen to be in the tiny minority that reads these posts but does NOT watch the episodes, this episode deals with domestic violence, so it’s inevitable that I have to talk about it. I wanted to provide this just in case you needed a trigger warning!
Some things age with time strangely, and there are parts of “Beauty and the Beasts” that are a tad odd to me. Then I looked at the air date: October 20, 1998. Three days before my fifteenth birthday. There was an episode of a popular television that showed us the perils of domestic violence, a metaphor for alcoholism, and made parallels to a violent system of misogyny that exists in our culture. IN 1998. What the fuck????
I’d always heard that while Buffy slipped up, it was one of the more progressive dramas on television, but I never really engaged that idea beyond rolling my eyes at the idea that a show about vampires could be thoughtful. omg I am a vampire bigot. Actually, vampires are used often as a metaphor for marginalized groups, and it’s one of my least favorite things? Because, like, I can’t count how many times vampirism was a metaphor for homosexuality, and that analogy doesn’t work because I don’t suck the life out of other people. I think there’s something inherently dangerous about vampires that doesn’t exist for people who are gay or queer. [PS: I realize that I just typed a sentence that starts with “I don’t suck…” when talking about being gay. SHUT UP SHUSH.]
The only reason I’m bringing this up is became I came into Buffy with an idea that it was a silly show. It doesn’t help that it aired on the WB, which was sort of known in my time as being never serious and kind of cheesy and LOOK I WAS JUST SO OBSESSED WITH THE X-FILES. Is there anything wrong with a love that pure??? What I’ve discovered over the last thirty-odd episodes or so is that while the show certainly has the capacity to be serious, it’s so much more intelligent and thoughtful than I ever imagined. Personally, I’m obsessed with the idea of being a teenager, and it’s why I’m writing a YA fiction novel. There’s so much potential for ripe storytelling during that time period, and Buffy impresses me time and time again with episodes that deal with that pivotal and transformative period in our lives. Hell, I’m sure there are some of you who are still in the midst of this part of your life and therefore you totally understand me.
Viewing these episodes through the lens of my own experience as a teenager gives them so much more depth. I know it may be weird that I pedantically obsess over small details, character turns, or social stigmas that I come across. I know that, historically, reviewing television only really happened this way in online communities. I mean, I remember when I first got online in the 90s (I AM SO FUCKING OLD WHAT THE FUCK) and discovered The X-Files chatrooms and message boards, found out that people called one another X-Philes, and that they “shipped” Mulder and Scully. I learned what shipping was. What stuck with the most over the years, though, was how a thread on a single episode that aired could go three or four hundred replies long, that there were people discussing the subtext of government paranoia, or perhaps talking about how Scully’s character subverted gender roles along the way, or even folks complaining about a poorly-executed endgame for a particular story.
It’s those sort of communities that have inspired me all these years, and I’d never be doing what I’m doing without them. I love the chance to discuss Buffy not only because HOLY SHIT THIS SHOW IS SO GOOD, but because the show itself facilitates discussion on these issues. I generally end up liking something more if I can appreciate it on multiple levels, and it’s why I’m enjoying Buffy so much as it is.
I definitely think that “Beauty and the Beasts” does its story well, but I must admit that I think this story has one of the most convoluted plots in the series so far, one that confused me a few times because so much was jammed into it. It’s starts off being about Oz and the beast that he has inside him, then it shifts to Angel being a beast after returning from Hell (HELP ME HELP ME HELP ME OH MY GOD), but then it shifts its attention to Debbie and Pete in the last fifteen minutes or so, and then all three plots sort of come together? Truthfully, each one of these three plots could have been given its own episode, so I thought the one thing that made this episode suffer was that it was too full.
At heart, though, this episode is about three men – Oz, Angel, and Pete – who all have to deal with violence that they commit as men. For Oz, the news that a boy was murdered and possibly mauled causes him to reflect on the possibility that he may be doing it himself. Angel’s return from Hell isn’t pleasant either, and even though we get only one tiny moment of the real Angel, there’s still the problem of his frightening rage. Pete, however, provides the most concrete example of how men use their power to harm other people, especially women.
Yet there really is a lot of stuff that happens in between. We see more of Buffy and Scott’s relationship, most of which is kind of horrifically awkward. Wow, this show really knows how to capture the awkwardness of high school, doesn’t it? It’s kind of frightening in its realism. It’s interesting that Buffy is reluctant to continue further with Scott, and this is, of course, made a lot more complicated when Angel shows up. Well, like hopelessly complicated, I mean. How do you keep dating someone when the person you loved (and killed!!!) JUST RETURNED FROM HELL? Oh god, Buffy, I don’t envy you.
Well, actually I do just a little bit. That’s because you got to talk to Mr. Platt. UGH BUFFY WHY DID YOU DO THAT? What a rad character for this show to introduce! There was so much potential in him, a chance for Buffy to develop a relationship with someone where she could be open and honest, to reflect on her own life through him. He was genuinely interested in her, and he understood her. Do you know how crucial that is to Buffy? Or anyone, for that matter? He actively empathized with her, and it made her feel so much. WHY AM I NOT SURPRISED THAT HE DIED? Goddamn it, CAN ONE NICE CHARACTER LAST A LONG TIME? Well, aside from Willow. FUUUU IF YOU KILL OFF WILLOW I SWEAR.
Most of the characters take a backseat in this episode, though, to Oz and Buffy, which is actually a dynamic we haven’t really seen. There are moments where Willow has to cope with her boyfriend possibly being a murderous monster, and those are touching. But I like anything with Willow in it. I’m sort of the same with Cordelia, but I really, really need a Cordy-centric episode soon. I WANT IT. Faith sort of just…walks around? I don’t think she has a very big role in “Beauty and the Beasts.” Xander’s there to make inappropriate jokes and look really fucking good in that gray shirt he was wearing early in the episode. He wore it well, okay? SHUT UP.
The thing I want to discuss most, though, is this episode’s attempt to bring up the issue of domestic violence. As a whole, I’d say that Marti Nixon did a fine job. Pete is clearly in the wrong, and even though he drank a potion that accented his violence, the show explicitly states that this was still Pete’s fault. (Hello there, alcoholism metaphor. I SEE YOU.) We see how brutal domestic violence is, though I admit that the two scenes where he beats her were ridiculously uncomfortable to watch. I didn’t expect the show to actually put those images on the screen. I’m not sure I think it was unnecessary, but I understand that it probably freaked out a lot of people.
We even get to see the other side of it. It’s one of those things that’s hard to watch because I was abused as a kid and a teenager, and my first boyfriend was emotionally abusive and manipulative of me. I acted just like Debbie did. I told my friends that things were fine. I defended the people who hurt me with a vehemence and vitriol that they didn’t deserve. But I didn’t know any better, and I didn’t know how else to cope with it. This show and Danielle Weeks, who plays Debbie, portray this so accurately that I actually had to pause the episode for a second because shit was getting too real for me. omg SHIT GOT REAL.
The only thing that kind of made me feel weird was how aggressive Buffy and Willow were when they confronted Debbie in the bathroom. I don’t know that I’d go so far to say that they were blaming her for it happening, but it felt accusatory rather than sympathetic. I do get that they were on a time crunch because Pete could be killing other people, but coming to terms with being abused is not an easy process.
On a completely unrelated note, Oz in a werewolf suit looks like a gorilla. I laughed really hard. Which is kind of distracting because right after this, everything is so serious and disturbing. I think that’s part of Buffy‘s charm, though, in that it can be silly one moment and downright upsetting the next.
And I AM JUST SO FULL OF EMOTIONS AT THE END OF THIS EPISODE. Sarah Michelle Gellar, your face when Angel says your name…you’re killing me. You are TOO MUCH FOR ME. It’s so heartbreaking and overwhelming. Angel is back, and Buffy has accepted that, but in what capacity has he returned? Has spending all that time in Hell damaged him forever? Will he ever return? WHY ARE YOU READING HIM THE CALL OF THE WILD. My heart is going to burst from feelings one of these days.
Death Count: 4 -Â Debbie, Pete, boy in woods during cold open, Mr. Platt. Total: 13
I don’t know why, but for some reason I found it really unintentionally funny that Buffy has Angel chained up in a big empty room somewhere without telling anyone. Sort of like a secret pet. A sexy secret pet.
Every time we saw him it made me laugh, so that kind of ruined the serious mood of this episode. I really have no idea why it struck me as so comical. Who knows what my mind is doing these days?
So there was a bunch of stuff about abusive relationships in this one – and they were obviously drawing a parallel to the relationship between Buffy and Angel, and asking us to consider how far he is responsible for his actions in hurting her. If we write it off as ‘not really him’, are we simply using the same justification as Debbie is about her boyfriend? Or is it genuinely an incomparable situation? There was also sort of some victim blaming going on here but…I feel a little unqualified to talk about this subject, to be honest. I’m looking forward to seeing everyone else’s thoughts though.
However, I will give you…
Alice’s Dad’s Comment Of The Episode:
“Where did Angel get those trousers anyway? Is that another one of his vampire powers – spontaneous clothes generation?”
You've got a point about the pants, but does anybody really want to see David's Boreanus?
Uhm, I have to admit that I tend to find David's ass the best part of his looks. His face does nothing for me, but that ass…
I get that, it's just do you know how long I've waited for a set-up that good to a "David Boreanus" pun?
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. YES.
Please. =3
<img src="http://i41.tinypic.com/16t7xu.gif">
omg.
The most perfect response possible.
Ever.
Why, here's a whole bunch of internets, just for you.
I HAD THE EXACT SAME QUESTION AS YOUR FATHER! And his shoes! Did he snap out of it long enough to put on half an outfit? I don't understand…
Right? I mean he's running around in the woods, basically feral–IS he feeding on people, btw? They never really address how he's feeding himself in this episode–and yet he somehow WHILE NAKED manages to acquire pants and shoes. It's not like you can just walk in to a clothing store with no clothes on and be like "CLOTHE ME" even if you aren't a wild vamp-man.
Maybe they have somewhat relaxed policies in Sunnydale clothing stores?
10% off for actual humans!
It's not like you can just walk in to a clothing store with no clothes on and be like "CLOTHE ME"
That… that isn't how you guys shop?
I always wondered about the pants, too.
Where did Angel get those trousers anyway?
THIS IS MY QUESTION ALSO. I mean… he's supposed to be a ~savage beast~ but he still had a mind to put some pants on? Omg it's totally a clue that he's not completely gone forever: the trousers symbolise hope!
THE TROUSERS OF HOPE
Better than Buffy's overalls of sadness!
Aw, but I like those. They look so comfy.
…
…
don't put an Angel/Scott Hope rough sex fic in my mind. JUST. DON'T.
…I'd read that.
Jryy, gurl qb fnl yngre gung Fpbgg vf tnl…
I think the main difference between Pete and Angel is, that Angel didn't choose to lose his soul, but Pete wanted to become stronger to control his girlfriend. Pete was also really controling without changing into a monster, so it's not as if the murders he comited can only be blamed on substance abuse.
I think it is a good methaphore for an alcoholic.
Angelus has no human understanding of good and bad, no concience, Pete just decides not to listen to his.
I think we maybe could make a comparison with Angel/Angelus and someone who has a MPD.
…I would shy away from that comparison unless you have specifically studied dissociative identity disorder.
YOUR DAD IS MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE.
I agree! I really want to watch Buffy with you and your dad! (it's too bad I'm 6000 miles away)
rofl that was my main thought about Angel as well. It looked like he managed to change trousers at one point as well, although I quickly realised that was probably just the light making them look different.
He had magically appearing trousers in "Surprise" as well, when he runs out into the rain.
Hey, I remember that!
But in that scene the trousers are a symbol of despair…
Maybe they're symbolic of transformation?
The Trousers of Change.
omg, hahahahahaha!!!!!! awesome. laughing, literally, out loud here.
I love this.
dying here
That's not a phrase you hear every day…. I had no idea trousers were symbolic in that way.
They are probably magical polyester trousers from Hell.
I'm reading this at work and your dad's comment made me laugh out loud. In the process of trying to choke back a laugh, I actually snorted. What I'm trying to say is, your dad is awesome. Again.
ahahahaha I definitely also thought about the chains lol.
And lol your dad is so right!!!!
I imagine the scene in the writer's room going down something like this:
"You know, he has to be naked."
"There's no way the WB will let us have him naked. We have to put on some pants."
"Fans are gonna call us out on that. They're gonna wonder where he got the pants."
"Yeah. Probably. Damn it. Maybe…maybe no-one will notice?"
"Oh, they're gonna notice, man. They're gonna notice the pants."
"Eh, fuck it. Get him some pants."
Jvgu nyy gur cnagf gnyx, V'z fhqqrayl erzvaqrq gung synlrq!Jneera fgvyy xrcg uvf gebhfref ba.
>> “Where did Angel get those trousers anyway? Is that another one of his vampire powers – spontaneous clothes generation?”
He must go to the same shop as Jacob, where all the supernatural beasties get their unexpectly lingering pants.
That or some of the Hulk's magic pants
Did you notice that Oz's clothes mysteriously DISAPPEARED when he transformed into a werewolf? I think his pants must have mystically transferred onto Angel's body. This makes sense in Sunnydale.
Alice’s Dad’s Comment Of The Episode — Please let this be a regular feature in your comments!
AGREED.
Well, maybe it'll be a semi-regular feature. 😛
I did mention I quoted him on Mark Watches occasionally, and he said:
"Ah, international fame. At last."
In my head, your dad sounds like Giles.
lolz, I totally agree with this comment… and now I can't unGiles him.
For some reason he sounds to me like the old guy from Jurassic Park. I have no idea why.
And now same. Looking forward to more of that!
Guys? Sorry to break the "magical pant" theories, but :
Angel is at the mansion. Where Angelus' clothes ( and Drusilla's dolls!!!!!) are certainly still there. And even if Angel is wild at first, he kept his instincts and must have found a pant… Somewhere…. lol
Or we can just blame the WB for not showing a wild naked Angel during a whole episode.
Bah! Stop trying to bring logic and rationality to our trouser-free zone!
Haha. Regarding Angel, I always find an explanation… 😉 But it's late for me now, so I'm out.
Sexy secret pet? Vf vg onq gung guvf erzvaqf zr bs Natry orvat xrcg nf n fbeg bs gbegher-crg ol gur znfgre rg ny va Qbccrytnatynaq? Shaal whkgncbfvgvba..
Pna V cynl jvgu gur chccl?
Gur ragver gvzr, V xrcg urnevat Jvyybj nfx vs fur pbhyq cynl jvgu gur chccl, yby. Oberq abj. 😉
I'm hoping the more we mention that we love your dad's comments, the more pictures of him on camels and such we will get 🙂
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz05fcE7cq1qz5stv.png">
The unintentional kink subtext in Buffy is rapidly becoming, uh, text.
I was wondering where all the screencaps of chained Angel were. Clearly not everyone shares my kinks :).
I'm pretty sure the writers always knew what they were doing with regards to kinks, especially Marti Noxon. I think she was the one who originally wrote in all of the Spike and Drusilla stuff.
there are some important issues dealt with in this episode (and i'll leave others with more knowledge of the subject to discuss them), which is never a bad thing, but i just don't like it much. i just don't.
-appropriate narration is appropriate. it frames and sums up the episode very nicely, i think.
-this is in NO WAY a comment on her character or put forward as ANY SORT of justification for the way pete behaves, but the actress that plays debbie? her voice annoys the ever-loving shit out of me. it's the main reason i avoid re-watching this episode.
-i'd like to take a moment to appreciate the wisdom of mr. platt. we hardly knew ye:
"…any person who claims to be totally sane is either lying or not very bright."
"look, lots of people lose themselves in love. its no shame. they write songs about it. the hitch is, you can't stay lost. sooner or later you have to get back to yourself."
"if you can't?"
"if you can't, well, love becomes your master and you're just its dog."
HEAR HEAR!
-i guess angel found some pants. too bad.
-cold-blooded jelly doughnut.
-buffy's reaction to angel hugging her pretty much destroys me. you see so many emotions pass over her face; she's completely overcome.
-scott hope bores me to tears, and it seems that most of you agree with me on that one, but i've always related to what he says here:
"it's just that you never really know what's going on inside somebody, do you? i mean, you think -if you care about them- but you never really do."
he just summed up the human condition, for me.
"vs lbh pna'g, jryy, ybir orpbzrf lbhe znfgre naq lbh'er whfg vgf qbt."
Uhu. Qba'g guvax V rire pnhtug vg orsber, ohg url, gurer'f Fcvxr'f cuvybfbcul (frys-qrfpevorq "ybir'f ovgpu") nyzbfg jbeq-sbe-jbeq. Vg'f vagrerfgvat gb frr vg pevgvdhrq naq erwrpgrq frireny rcvfbqrf orsber ur fnlf vg.
nf zhpu nf v znl nterr jvgu jung cyngg fnlf, v tbggn fnl gung v ybir gung fcvxr vf gur jnl ur vf naq gung ur znxrf ab ncbybtvrf sbe vg. v qba'g guvax vg'f urnygul, ohg v whfg ybir fcvxr fb zhpu. OYVAQREF BA.
"vs lbh pna'g, jryy, ybir orpbzrf lbhe znfgre naq lbh'er whfg vgf qbt."
Ur znl or ybir'f ovgpu, ohg Natry vf arire zna rabhtu gb nqzvg vg. V ybir gur jnl guvf yvaxf gb "Ybiref Jnyx"!
I found this episode a bit (well, actually a lot) triggering, but like every episode of Buffy, I was able to defuse the tension with some of the humor that Joss injects to most situations.
I had forgotten the storyline of this episode, so while I was pretty sure it wasn't Oz doing those things, I could just not remember who it really was, so it was almost like watching it again for the first time.
But besides all of the 'main' storyline, can I just flail around about Angel being back and Buffy finding him ALREADY?? Why did I feel like this happened later?? Anyway, yay Angel <3
What I liked:
Willow reading a book to Oz in wolf form, so cute.
(Ohaavrf!)
Willow’s pride at Oz’s intelligence.
“And how did you do that? Right, you showed up.”
The therapist is (was) really nice.
(“Lbh jvyy whfg or ybir’f qbt” erzvaqrq zr n ybg bs “V znl or ybir’f ovgpu.” Fcvxr pbhyq unir hfrq uvf nqivpr.)
Angel! Really, really animalistic Angel, but hey, Angel!
Scooby Doo lunch box!
(“Gurer vf ab erpbeq bs nalbar ergheavat sebz n qrzba qvzrafvba.” N srj lrnef bs riragf va Fhaalqnyr naq YN jvyy punatr gurfr erpbeqf qenfgvpnyyl.)
Boreanzas does the scared animal really well, it’s kind of impressive.
The mystery of who of these three supernatural beings is the killer and if it was just one of them.
Abuse being treated as bad and inexcusable form the start; it’s a good message, especially as there is no big heel-face turn for the abuser.
The Scoobies making fun of Sunnydale’s denial; sometimes the excuses for monster activities get too ridiculous even for them.
What I didn’t like:
“All men are beasts.” So cliché just like “You can’t get a 17 year old girl away from her cell phone.”
Scott and Buffy; Scott is nice, but there is just no chemistry.
Xander sleeping on Oz-watch. I understand, that the Scoobies usually see the werewolf thing as quite harmless, because nothing has happened, yet. (Like a furry little problem.)
But why now? And did it have to be Xander again? Can’t the writers think of someone else making a mistake for once? Is this the only role they can give Xander?
Is there any teacher Buffy likes who doesn’t get killed?
Pete. I like the story, it’s quite interesting and portraits abusive relationships very well in my opinion, but what a terrible jerk!
I feel no sympathy for him at all.
Angel killing a human, even if it was a complete jerk. Vg'f arire rira zragvbarq, rira gubhtu gurl hfhnyyl znxr n ovt qrny bhg bs xvyyvat uhznaf.
It always bugs me that Xander gets absolutely chewed out for falling asleep during watch duty on the first night, then Buffy falls asleep the second night and no one even mentions it, then no one even watches Oz on the third night. I mean, I get why Giles was so pissed at Xander, he fucked up. But then it seems to be not important almost immediately
Also, it bugs me that when Willow says she put the towels up for privacy, Xander immediately makes it about himself. "Oh, no worries, I can handle the Oz Full-Monty". Um, maybe Oz is the one who wants some privacy?
I always wonder the same thing when Xander gets chewed out after falling asleep and then Giles doesn’t bat an eyelash when he wakes Buffy up the next day. For all they know, she fell asleep the minute everyone left the library…
I think Angel killing Pete instead of just subduing him was an interesting choice. It shows that he's still wild and even though he doesn't hurt Buffy and has that moment of recognition with her, she can't be sure of him just yet. Same with the quote at the end; that wildness is always going to be lurking. I agree the narration frames the episode really nicely.
i don't like that angel offs pete either, but it was a way to get rid of pete without having buffy do it. i mean, they couldn't have let her do that, obviously. plus, it shows that angel, animal that he currently is, is still protective of buffy.
Well, what I wonder is, what does Buffy tell the others? She can't admit that Angel is back, so does she say SHE killed Pete?
That's what I was wondering, too. What did she tell the Scoobies, that he had a heart attack?
Do the Scoobies now think she killed a human? I wish they had explained that instead of the soppy Scott part.
i think that's one of those things that the world will never know. for the most part, stuff is earned on buffy, and there are real consequences to actions, but sometimes…yeah, there are petes.
I think Faith's "all men are beasts" is MEANT to be a cliche. Buffy knows that NOT all men are beasts–Scott in this ep is about as far from beast-like as possible, and while Oz sometimes is a literal beast, he's not that way at all when he's being Oz–but Faith has a more simplistic view of the world because she hasn't had a great life. She's probably had enough bad experiences with men that in order to survive she's adopted this cliche as a truism.
I agree, and right after she says it we see WIllow saying that she doesn't think it's true and Buffy agrees that it's a generalization.
I agree too. I generally think that Faith's had a bad enough life from what they've hinted at that she actually believes it but the writers are saying that obviously that isn't true. If Buffy had agreed with her then it'd seem like they were furthering a cliche but she clearly doesn't so she's kind of the voice of the writers in that scene.
“Nyy zra ner ornfgf.” Fb pyvpué whfg yvxr “Lbh pna’g trg n 17 lrne byq tvey njnl sebz ure pryy cubar.”
Lrnu, ohg guvf vf pbzvat sebz Snvgu, jubfr ivrj bs eryngvbafuvcf vf jnecrq, nf jr jvyy frr.
Oh, I know it's important who says it. Still, it's a stupid line and the episode seems to play right into it.
Vg vf bq pbhefr nyfb n tbbq sberfunqbjvat bs Snvgu'f punenpgre naq gur jnl fur gerngf zra. Htu, gung fprar jurer fur nyzbfg xvyyf Knaqre juvyr va orq jvgu uvz. *fuhqqre*
V xabj. Gung'f jura V ernyyl qvfyvxr Snvgu. Naq rira ol Frnfba Frira fur fgvyy unf gung "frk vf nyjnlf zrnavatyrff, trg fbzr naq trg tbar" nggvghqr (naq V pbhyq fznpx ure sbe oenttvat nobhg ubj fur tbg gurer svefg jvgu Knaqre).
V ybhturq ng gur cneg jvgu gur enoovgf. Gurer vf fbzrguvat jvgu zlfgvpny perngherf naq ohaavrf…
“All men are beasts.” So cliché just like “You can’t get a 17 year old girl away from her cell phone.”
It is very cliche indeed, but I think it's significant that it's Faith bringing that up and defending that point of view. I don't know if we heard Faith's age yet, but I can't imagine she's much older than Buffy, and we do have quite a bit about her background. It's her PoV, not necessarily the show's PoV.
In fact, given, say, Scott's style of courtship, I would say it is definitely not the show's PoV. (Or Fcvxr'f, obgu orsber naq nsgre guvf.
"“You can’t get a 17 year old girl away from her cell phone.” "
Do you mean Xander saying "it's statistically impossible for a 16 year-old girl to disconnect her phone" in "What's My Line?" Isn't he talking about Buffy's landline phone? She doesn't have a cellphone as far as we've seen.
So, I was not looking forward to this episode. I couldn’t remember why, but I remembered not liking it. Then, while rewatching, I understood why. This episode is uncomfortable to watch and my thoughts while watching can be summed up as this “NO! Oz is killing people! THIS IS BAD!!! NO! Angel is killing people! THIS IS BAD!!! Oh wait, YAY! It’s not them, it’s a horrible, abusive boyfriend…..well that’s not very good either…..”
The end of this episode brings me no real satisfaction, partially because it is too real. I fully admit that this episode is well made, it’s fairly well scripted and acted (and I really like the counselor), but still, the whole thing just leaves me feeling down, and not in a “I’m crying my face off because I am so moved” kind of way (like Becoming Part 2 does).
Things I do like
•Giles getting shot with the tranq gun….bloody priceless indeed.
•Angel being able to speak coherently at the end of the episode
•Angel being shirtless (*is shallow*)
•Mr. Platt getting Buffy to open up some more
•The whole scene at the morgue
Also this is interesting
Ze. Cyngg: "Vs lbh pna'g… Jryy, ybir orpbzrf lbhe znfgre, naq lbh'er whfg vgf qbt." V arire abgvprq guvf fyvtug gvr va gb Fcvxr’f yvar va Ybire’f Jnyx.
V PNA’G JNVG SBE GUR ERFG BS GUVF JRRX!!! FB ZHPU TBBQARFF!!!
And now the official stuff
Episode 4: Beauty and the Beasts
Written by Marti Noxon, Directed by James Whitmore, Jr.
When Willow lets Xander watch Oz, who is in full werewolf form and locked in the library, things get a little hairy. Xander falls asleep on duty and a friend of Oz’s is found mauled. Did Oz do it…or did Angel, who’s back and in a feral state?
Yay! A pun in the summary! I love puns………
Does Giles getting shot with the gun count as him being knocked out? Is anyone keeping track of how many times Giles has been knocked out?
I like Shirtless!Angel, too! The scene where he was trying to break his chains was just the right amount of gratuitous flexing.
Giles being knocked out should be a drinking game, although it may be dangerous to everyone's livers :D.
Oh no, Oz is killing people.
That's bad.
Wait, it's not Oz
That's good
It's Angel killing people.
That's bad
No, wait, it's not Angel either.
That's good.
It's an abusive boyfriend hopped up on a steroid/alcohol/Hyde potion.
………
That's bad
But it comes with your choice of toppings!
That's good!
[PS: I realize that I just typed a sentence that starts with "I don't suck…" when talking about being gay. SHUT UP SHUSH.]
HAHA TOO LATE, NEVER lol look at what you wrote
Thought list time:
– Okay, once again, I HATE NARRATION VOICEOVER WITH THE FIERY HATRED OF A THOUSAND BURNING NUNS. I concede that I think SMG does better than either David Boreanaz or Dude What Played Whistler did, but still, do not want narration because ugh. I am willing to admit that it’s mostly Sex and the City and Desperate Housewives that have tainted narration VO forever, but fuck me if that ain’t one hell of a taint.
– Thank you Willow, for casually expositioning when the wolf is the strongest. No thank you for Xander for freaking out over Willow and Oz together half naked times. NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, etc, please don’t make me sound like a broken record but get the fuck over all the things
Also, way to fail at being a responsible friend. But hey, it’s wacky music playing, so I guess it’s all fun.
– No show, I don’t buy Faith finding Scott in any way attractive. She’s into strung-out musicians and maybe bikers and stuffy British librarians with a dark, potentially queer past. Not into Blandy Toastbreadface-Creepygiftgiver.
– Hello Girl, hello Guy, convenient friends of Blandy, here to serve as a Two Anvils, A Plot Point and an Overused Trope to tide us over until we get to the next episode (no, I seriously do not like the hitherto-unknown friend/relative/whatever that comes in for the Very Special Episode and then disappears one A Point Has Been Made, because I just can’t bring myself to care about them). Also, Blandy, you already gave her a way too early ring, I think we’re way past flowers.
– Oh god, Giles, I want to marry your righteously warranted rage at Xander and marry it and have angry, bigoted-against-Americans British-Austrian children with it.
– Hey, look, remember when you could smoke indoors? I miss those days. Also, I like him, he is understanding and nice and helpful and also a smoker and a POC, so he is so dead 🙁 Also also, I approve how he pointedly didn’t go for the more common/obvious "love is the master and you’re its bitch" phrasing.
– Bu Bm, vg'f abg n thl guvat. Jvyybj jvyy unir ure fgbezvat bss ehvarq fbba, nf jryy. BU TBQ FB YBBXVAT SBEJNEQ GB GUVF
– So being able to put on trousers at all times, even when in great pain and/or confused turmoil, is that a general vampire power, or an Angel-specific one?
– Aww, Willow <3 But btw, show, if you want us to buy "horribly ripped apart and mauled that even they are completely overwhelmed", maybe you should… I dunno, put some work into it.
– HALF-NAKED FERAL ANGEL AND CHAINS
– I mean UM EMOTIONAL SADNESS AND WHATNOT
– Faith I love your leather vest and also your automatic reaction to people unannouncedly touching you.
– Thank heavens nobody ever comes in to check things out, or how else would Giles explain the naked student in a cake? I wanted to say something else but then Giles also has a poignant dialogue and can I listen to him tell stuff all day?
– And the Very Special Plot arrives. And the death doesn’t even make sense because how is his corpse so undisturbed by a vicious attack. And what is that special effect. And what is this plot. Now, abuse in relationships is something that should be addressed in the media, but here it is mixed in under a vague, flimsy cover of supernatural goings-on and the obvious parallels of isolation and blame and self-delusion and so on but… but on the whole, it’s just too. damn. clunky. It’s the episode in which the author wields a mallet. HAVE ALL THE ANVILS
– Aww, WILLOW ALL THE LESSTHANTHREES. Also, aww, Faith.
– ALSO REALLY THAT SPECIAL EFFECT. THE DIALOGUE DELIVERY. THE WEREWOLF COSTUME. From Very Special Episode to Utterly Failtastic Cheesefest. Also, poor Giles.
– HIT THE MISOGYNIST WITH THE FISTS OF EMANCIPATION, BUFFY
– Seriously show, you’re trying to get back to ~meaningful message~ after all that? I CAN’T TAKE ANY AFTER THE CHEESE
– Okay, I can get serious about SMG’s sad face.
– And post-climax background. Kinda like in Ted, really.
– I don’t care about your feels, Blandy. Writers of shows everywhere, just telling us we should care doesn’t work if you haven’t shown us why we should.
German title: Dr. Jekyl und Mr. Hyde. I think I don’t need to re-translate that one, now, do I?
"Oh god, Giles, I want to marry your righteously warranted rage at Xander and marry it and have angry, bigoted-against-Americans British-Austrian children with it. "
Can I be godmother? Or…whatever the atheist version of that is?
"Thank heavens nobody ever comes in to check things out, or how else would Giles explain the naked student in a cake?"
I had to think about that one. I'm gonna assume you meant 'cage' because otherwise it conjures up some weird mental images of the kind of parties Giles has. But…yeah, you have a point. I guess at least it's at night-time?
how else would Giles explain the naked student in a cake?
BEST. TYPO. EVER.
THIS! And now I want cake.
Now I wish I liked cake so I could appreciate my typo more 🙁
I'm not especially fond of cake and I STILL LOVE THE TYPO. XD
Why wouldn't you people like cake? Cake is awesome.
(Maybe you have a traumatic cake experience in your past that haunts you still? There are other sorts of cake. Good cake. I promise.)
LOL Cake is okay, I don't hate it or anything. I'm just a very picky eater as it is. It has to be vanilla and have just the right amount of the right kind of frosting and be VERY MOIST.
And maybe have a naked Oz in it. ;D
Let me illustrate…
Well that is a perfectly acceptable reason (As Hyperbole and a Half always is).
Also, Pie is not Cake. I keep forgetting that. So my entire skepticism was meant as "Why don't you people like PIE?? Idiots." Heh.
Ist Cake dann Torte oder ist Cake so eine Art Mischung aus Torte und noch Kuchen mit Glasur?
Culinary English is the worst English. I can't even keep my German culinary terms straight, so English is hopeless 😛
Cake kann sowohl Torte als auch Kuchen sein. Pie sind ja diese Dinger mit Kruste und manchmal auch pikanter Füllung.
Also von einer *guten* Torte kann ich auch ein Stück essen, aber nicht von diesen zu Tode glasierten Monstrositäten, die es in Usa zu geben scheint. Aber meist is mir Torte einfach zu viel, da geht Kuchen dann doch eher.
Also how dare you say "Jesus take the wheel"
….
never mind
… it's the Doctor come to explain why he kissed your fiancee?
…. but why is he naked?
Now I'm thinking about Naked Doctor. THANKS. 😀
I love this whole thread with the fire of a thousand suns.
AS DO I. That typo has made my whole day.
misreads ftw… "fire of a thousand nuns."
It took me a minute to get that by "naked student in a cake" you meant "naked student in a cage," and I was imagining characters popping out of a cake like the Doctor at Rory's bachelor party.
And I see someone beat me to that 😀
Whenever I think of people popping out of cakes, I think of the second Addams Family movie. "Lurch… was she in there before you baked?"
OMG YES
I FUCKING LOVE THAT MOVIE
I LOVE THE FUCK OUT OF BOTH OF THE MOVIES
Probably my favourite American comedies, n g l
ME TOO BUT ESPECIALLY THE SECOND ONE <3
YEEEEEES <3
…so. Rewatching Addams Family 1&2 and all the Golden Girls seasons for gif-reasons.
I AM AN ADULT, AND I HAVE ADULT RESPONSIBILITIES
Hey, being an adult means knowing exactly when it's okay to be irresponsible.
"No show, I don’t buy Faith finding Scott in any way attractive. She’s into strung-out musicians and maybe bikers and stuffy British librarians with a dark, potentially queer past. Not into Blandy Toastbreadface-Creepygiftgiver."
AGREED. I also feel strongly that she would hook up with a mob boss' hot girlfriend, a la Bound. Just putting it out there.
I agree as well, though I certainly wouldn't put it past Faith to be the sort of woman who would pursue someone who's the romantic interest of somebody she views as a rival, regardless of whether she's genuinely attracted to him or not.
I think it's more "she views Buffy as someone Faith wants to be", therefore, Faith "likes Scott", even though Faith would normally never like Scott.
hahaha I love your typos. And all your thoughts. <3 Especially our shared Xander hate.
The only time I like narration VO is in Pushing Daisies, when it's funny and punny and being done by the lovely Jim Dale, so it feels very much like being read a bedtime story by your British grandpa. (there are few things quite as hilarious to me as hearing an elderly, proper British voice say things like "Oh, hell no!" or "badass" or "Now that Simone had come… and gone".) Though, the examples you gave have nothing on The Last Airbender. WE GOT NARRATED ON STUFF WHILE LOOKING AT SCENERY SHOTS. ONE OF THE BIGGEST OFFENDERS I REMEMBER WAS BEING TOLD THAT SOKKA AND YUE "BECAME FAST FRIENDS" AND SEEING NOTHING OF THAT ONSCREEN.
The thousand burning nuns actually were on purpose 😛 I should probably start to sic just in case 😛
Somebody has to cover the Xander hate <3
o_o wait what
See, I never subjected myself to The Last Airbender and you're not making me want to.
…
Well, not any more than I already… don't.
Also, I second your thoughts on how proper British people can be hilarious like that.
It was baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
soooooooooooooooooooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
I watched the Rifftrax (the only way to go) and it was horrifying
I watched the review by some of the secondaries on TGWTG, and read some of the scathing reviews and I had a lot of fun that way, so I'm almost glad the movie exists just for that… if only they hadn't butchered one of the best animated series of all time.
I am still very sad about having seen that movie…it was pretty stunning in that it was actually so bad, it was hard to even laugh at it. (Katara made me so sad.) However, I have to admit one comment I read about it is true: It honestly seemed to manage the impossible: A fandom united! Bitter shipping wars put aside in favor of ranting, weeping and desperate, hysterical laughing by all!
Also, the fanart, reviews, rants and occasional comparison videos were pretty hilarious. That was a plus.
Somebody has to cover the Xander hate
I've been toying with the idea of starting a "Times I said 'shut up Xander' out loud while watching the episode" count.
Hmmm.
OMG I love Jim Dale's PD narrations. And then one character says "the facts were these" and Chuck is like "huh?" Ahahaha
There are three couples to be compared and contrasted in this episode: Debbie and Pete, Willow and Oz, Buffy and Angel.
In the case of Debbie and Pete, Pete is clearly abusing Debbie. It's a textbook abusive relationship. They have the whole Jekyll/Hyde metaphor layer, but it's hardly necessary. Pete turns into a monster whenever he's triggered – and that trigger is an emotional one. Anger at Debbie, or fear of losing her. Whatever it is, it's regular and unpredictable and dangerous. But Debbie stays with him.
Oz also occasionally turns into a monster. But this only affects Willow because she voluntarily loses sleep a couple of days a month to hang out with Oz while he's in his wolfy form. Oz's trigger is external and completely predictable: the phases of the moon. Oz deals with his inner monster by locking it up in a cage, allowing this part of himself to find release in a safe and controlled environment. His relationship with Willow is in no way abusive; it's probably the healthiest relationship on the show right now.
And then we have Buffy and Angel. When Buffy is describing her relationship to Mr. Platt*, her language definitely makes it sound like an abusive relationship. And this is how Mr. Platt interprets it. Like Pete, Angel's trigger is emotional. He'll lose his soul if he gets too happy. But unlike Pete this isn't a regular occurrence. It happened one time, though his monster state was then consistent for many months. And Angel's trigger is not quite as predictable or easy to deal with as Oz's trigger. How do you prevent a person from being too happy?
It's really interesting that Buffy berates Debbie for protecting Pete, for lying for him and hiding him, when she is doing exactly the same thing for Angel. Part of her knows that. The framing of this scene drives it home, by having Buffy speak to Debbie while both of them look into a mirror. Additionally, Buffy went to Mr. Platt with her problem because Giles and Willow would freak out if they knew Angel was back. She lies directly to Giles, telling him that she dreamed Angel came back. And then she ends the episode hanging out in the mansion with Angel and wondering what her next move should be.
On a first viewing, this episode can seem a little blunt. The story of Debbie and Pete is very preachy, very by the book. But the light it throws on the Buffy/Angel relationship is interesting. The show specifically calls that out as an abusive relationship. And then it ends on a note of ambiguity. Will Buffy fall back into the same pattern? Should she try and help Angel heal, or is he beyond hope? He spends most of this episode seeming like a mindless monster. But he recognizes her at the end and falls to his knees in tears – in a scene that mirrors Pete's reaction to blackening Debbie's eye. Does Buffy think she can help Angel heal, get his monster under control much like Oz? Or will she take the advice she gave to Debbie?
I'm really glad this episode exists to comment on the Buffy and Angel relationship, even though it presents an out for shippers by including Willow and Oz in the comparison. You can hope that Angel will keep his demon under control, that he and Buffy will find a way to make it work. But I think Buffy has more in common with Debbie than she's willing to admit and that Angel is more like Pete than Oz. In my opinion it's only a matter of time before he gets too happy and hurts her again.
*Speaking of Mr. Platt, he died far too quickly. I would have loved to have him around for a few more episodes.
"Speaking of Mr. Platt, he died far too quickly. I would have loved to have him around for a few more episodes. "
Definitely agreed. Even the first time I watched this episode, though, I knew from the first moment he was on screen that he was marked for death. Le sigh 🙁
I remember re-watching this episode, seeing Mr. Platt and thinking 'Hey, why didn't I remember this guy? He's so awesome!'
Then he died.
And I was like 'Oh…that's why…'
*sadface*
Ohg gur yvtug vg guebjf ba gur Ohssl/Natry eryngvbafuvc vf vagrerfgvat. Gur fubj fcrpvsvpnyyl pnyyf gung bhg nf na nohfvir eryngvbafuvc.
Snfpvangvat vafvtug. Nohfref, cnegvphyneyl rzbgvbany nohfref, nffhzr gung gurl ner gur bayl vaqvivqhnyf va n eryngvbafuvc jub ner crezvggrq serrqbz bs pubvpr. Natry ebhgvaryl qravrf nhgbabzl gb uvf pbzcnavbaf, sevraqf naq crbcyr ur ybirf – sbe gur erfg bs guvf frnfba naq guebhtubhg uvf bja fubj jr frr guvf cnggrea – znxvat pubvprf "sbe gurve bja tbbq", jurgure vg'f Ohssl, Pbeql, Pbaabe, gur ragver NV tebhc, nalbar ryfr. Naq rira bagb gur pbzvpf – ur trgf gb znxr gur qrpvfvbaf. Ur xabjf ur unf gur orfg vagrerfgf bs gur bguref ng urneg, fb ynpx bs nhgbabzl, rira pbafrag, vf abg n ceboyrz gb uvz. Naq vs ur trgf vg jebat vg'f fgvyy nyy nobhg uvz.
Bbu, V unqa'g gubhtug gb rkgraq guvf cnfg uvf eryngvbafuvc jvgu Ohssl, ohg lbh'er nofbyhgryl evtug. Ur qbrf guvf gb rirelbar.
Good analysis. There are a couple of bits of dialogue that really stand out for me about this. Firstly everything with Mr. Platt, particularly when he identifies that Angel got mean but that it didn't stop Buffy from loving him – immediately discounting that simplistic idea that 'if he's nasty to you just leave him' will work. He also says "People can change. You can change."
Giles: In my experience, there are… two types of monster. The first, uh, can be redeemed, or more importantly, wants to be redeemed.
Buffy: And the second type?
Giles: The second is void of humanity, cannot respond to reason… or love.
Both these statements are supposed to give us hope about Angel, but it's possibly the first one I find more interesting. Mr. Platt says people can change which would support Giles' statement, but he doesn't relate that to Angel, instead he means Buffy herself can change. Buffy later berates Debbie, possibly being over-harsh, for protecting Pete but in the end she does the same thing with Angel. When she says to Debbie that she and Pete are 'living out their Grimm Fairy Tale' surely this applies more to Buffy and Angel than Debbie and Pete. As Cordelia would say 'over-identify much?'
Guvf frrzf gb tb n ovg ntnvafg jung Tvyrf unf fnvq cerivbhfyl nobhg nyy qrzbaf orvat veerqrrznoyl rivy, bs pbhefr ur'f abg gnyxvat nobhg yvgreny zbafgref urer, fgvyy vg'f vagrerfgvat (gubhtu V qb oryvrir gung gur fvzcyvfgvp ivrj bs qrzba angher vf zber n jngpuref pbhapvy cnegl yvar). Nyfb Tvyrf' dhbgr znqr zr guvax bs Fcvxr.
The "Grimm Fairy Tale" has to apply to Buffy and Angel; they're the ones with a twisted fairy-tale relationship. Especially when you remember Buffy's earlier line "when you kiss me I want to die". Melodramatic, yes, but very on the nose
V guvax gur zbir sebz "Nyy qrzbaf ner rivy naq nyy uhznaf ner tbbq" va gur rneyl frnfbaf gb "Fbzr qrzbaf ner tbbq naq fbzr uhznaf ner rivy" va yngre frnfbaf vf whfg n znex bs guvf orvat n pbzvat bs ntr fgbel. Cneg bs znghevat, sbe Ohssl, vf abgvpvat nyy gur terl nern naq yrneavat ubj gb qrny jvgu vg.
Lrf, Yvr Gb Zr vf ernyyl pehpvny sbe fgnegvat gb nqqerff gurfr vffhrf ohg vg'f n ybat cebprff orsber nyy gur punenpgref trg guvf (vg gnxrf Knaqre hagvy frnfba frira) naq rira gura fbzr bs gurz qba'g frrz gb pner (jryy…Tvyrf, vzb). Va pbagenfg jvgu NgF jurer gurl fgneg bss sebz gur CBI gung fbzr qrzbaf ner tbbq/fbzr uhznaf ner rivy sebz rcvfbqr bar, ohg V fhccbfr gurl unir gb srry gung jnl pbafvqrevat gur yrnqvat punenpgre.
EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT BUFFY AND ANGEL. FTW!
Very smart analysis.
It's really interesting that Buffy berates Debbie for protecting Pete, for lying for him and hiding him, when she is doing exactly the same thing for Angel. Part of her knows that. The framing of this scene drives it home, by having Buffy speak to Debbie while both of them look into a mirror.
I NEVER PUT THIS TOGETHER. Awesomeness.
TRIGGER WARNING FOR DESCRIPTIONS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE FOR THIS WHOLE COMMENT.
This episode just makes me think of how people still don’t understand domestic violence and the cycle of abuse. There is a certain male celebrity whose ex-girlfriend asked for a restraining order, stating that at a musical festival in 2009 he got drunk and woke up in a his own urine and then got violet and threw her over a chair breaking her nose. The request for the restraining order cites another later incident when they got into an argument and he dragged her alongside her car, causing her to twist her ankle, blow out a kneecap and burst and ovarian cyst. The girlfriend later withdrew the request which caused all the of the celebrity’s fans to claim that OBVIOUSLY it was all made up because she withdrew the request. But… that’s not how these things work. Anyway, I’m not saying that the male celebrity is 100% for sure guilty, but it’s shady as all get out and it makes me angry how so many victims of abuse are scrutinized when they press charges. What I’m saying is thati doesn’t matter whether he is guilty or not, but rather that the fan reaction was “obviously he didn’t do it” because she later withdrew the request for a restraining order which just shows a completely lack of understanding of the cycle of abuse as well as the way that the victim’s story is always called into question. Also allegedly, this celebrity and the ex-girlfriend hooked up again at a Golden Globes after party, which if that is true, really seems to point to the cycle of abuse. ANYWAY, YES, I mean, in terms of the justice system, I do believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty, but the fact that society’s reaction is automatically doubt the victim’s story or excuse the abuser is a really awful truth.
All of that to say that I appreciate that this episode is trying to paint a realistic picture of domestic violence and it might be a bit clumsy at times, but I do appreciate what it is trying to do. For example, the whole Jekyll and Hyde thing points to the fact that abusive people can be charming to the outside world, but monsters to the victims of their abuse. And the fact that his strength and personality change comes from something that he drinks also points to the fact that this episode is trying to draw a parallel with alcoholism that can fuel abusive personalities.
This episode is so frightening with the way it portrays domestic violence. The way the abuser blames it on the victim (it’s HER grating voice that makes him act that way! She should know that she can’t make him mad! It’s her fault for making him angry!) and how Debbie internalizes that rings very true. When Buffy confronts Debbie in the locker room she says that it’s her fault. Pete only does what he does because he loves Debbie so much. She’s the one who makes him crazy. And she protects him and his secret. In the end, Debbie is just broken, and it’s really upsetting to watch. The cycle of abuse is an ugly thing and it’s so hard to get out of.
The other big thing going on in this episode is the return of Angel. We’re going back to the idea of Angel’s transformation as a metaphor for abusive relationships by having Buffy talk to the school counselor about how he changed in this same episode that is more obviously addressing issues of domestic violence. Anyway, Angel is back (this time with pants!), but years of torture in a hell dimension have left him more like a wild animal than a person. Poor Buffy. Scott seems pretty cute, but now that Angel is back, as wild and animalistic as he seems, she’s all thrown off. In the end, Angel kills Pete and saves Buffy and it definitely seems like this is an ensouled Angel. And like this is just as Buffy is getting over Angel and starting to move past him. Now he’s back and all her conflicted feelings seem to be back too as he holds her knees and her eyes fill up with tears.
I know EXACTLY who you're talking about (we both spend a lot of time on ontd, don't we? *shame*) and it's SO FRUSTRATING how people will defend him because he's attractive or he's a good actor and she MUST be seeking attention or money. I don't know if he is guilty, but don't just immediatly shrug it off as "she's a liar".
LOL YES. WE DO SPEND A LOT OF ONTD. hahaha. I ~got into it~ a bit with someone last week over that celebrity. Like, I tend to think he's guilty, but whatever. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't, but the lack of understanding as to how domestic violence works by saying that she dropped the restraining order request means that ~obviously~ he is innocent sets me into a blind rage.
I tend to stay out of the posts about him on ONTD because the comments make me so angry. I'm not very fond of people shrugging it off either. It's even worse when there is physical proof of the abuse but people still love the abuser and just blame the victim.
No shame to be spending lots of time on ONTD! I lurk there constantly haha. It can be quite fun/educating/enlightening in the midst of all the stan wars!
Well said.
WHEN DID ANGEL GET PANTS? HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?
I mean, I know you said a lot of serious, important things in this comment, but sorry I am now stuck on the pants. WHY WOULD FERAL ANGEL SEEK OUT PANTS AND HOW WOULD HE GET THEM ON HIS BODY?
Why not tell the name? I know who you mean, but I'm silent now because … maybe you have a reason?
I'd also cite the Chris Brown/Rihanna debacle though, (regardless of my opinion on their professional worth), when people immediately mostly backed him and he got through with half-assed "apologies" in extremely easy-going interviews. And reading comments on news-sites (I did it once, and later stopped myself because it's barf-inducing): "Oh, she's such a skank, she deserved that" etc.
I just didn't want the comment thread to derail into a debate about him specifically and whether or not he's guilty because that was kind of superfluous to my point which was more about the misconceptions about how domestic violence actually works.
But I guess it doesn't REALLY matter, so for those who don't know and are curious, the actor in question is Michael Fassbender.
I agree on that it's not central to the point, but knowing the name might make it easier for people to follow up on what you stated and therefore actually memorize it, maybe.
But yes, the actual point is not whether or not single examples did it, but rather the common ideological structure that defines how people react to such news.
This is worded really weirdly.
I know you're talking about something serious and disturbing here and it is not the place to be giggling over typos, but this — and then got violet — is my favorite typo of the week, I have to admit. 😉
EVERYONE: IF YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER GETS VIOLET, GET OUT!
(we need purple awareness ribbons, seriously)
I ALWAYS MAKE THE WORST TYPOS. lol. And I swear, I read through things after I write them! I just think my brain autocorrects for me. 🙁
Hahaha I noticed that typo too and I was like WE HAVE AN EPIDEMIC OF PEOPLE TURNING PURPLE HERE.
YES, I mean, in terms of the justice system, I do believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty, but the fact that society’s reaction is automatically doubt the victim’s story or excuse the abuser is a really awful truth.
Exactly. We as people are not required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone did a shitty thing before believing someone else who says they did a shitty thing. That's what trials are for.
I mean, in general, I'm not a fan of assuming people are guilty of stuff other people say they did, but the fact that it SO OFTEN goes the OPPOSITE way when it's about sexual assault or domestic violence or rape just nauseates me. It's awful. I mean, to put it in overly simplistic analogy terms, if someone says "that asshole stole my car!" we don't immediately go "are you sure you didn't just GIVE him the car? Are you sure he really stole the car or are you just trying to give him a bad reputation? Your car wasn't REALLY stolen–you just want the attention." jafdsjlsdfkl;djkls anyway. I'm not trying to compare bodily consent to property here, just saying that when someone says a crime was committed, USUALLY A CRIME WAS COMMITTED.
Also, the same people who say "well I don't want to judge, innocent until proven guilty" are conveniently being screaming hypocrites — they are just frothing at the mouth to "not judge" the alleged perpetrator, but in the exact same second they ARE JUDGING the alleged victim — based on usually no evidence at all, they are 100% ready to assume s/he is guilty of making a false accusation!
*headdesk*
V gubhtug vg jnf vagrerfgvat gung Ze. Cyngg fnlf fbzrguvat yvxr 'Lbh qba'g unir gb or ybir'f qbt.' naq gura Fcvxr fnlf, 'V znl or ybir'f ovgpu, ohg ng yrnfg V'z zna rabhtu gb nqzvg vg' whfg n srj rcvfbqrf yngre.
Ernqvat guvf rcvfbqr erivrj V pna bayl jbaqre jung Znex jvyy guvax jura Wblpr qvrf. Ur jvyy pel sberire. Naq gura Gnen. Cbbe thl qbrfa'g xabj jung ur'f va sbe.
I always wondered was it an Alcoholism metaphor or a steroids metaphor.
Another episode where SMG proves she's the only actress for this show!
I always wondered was it an Alcoholism metaphor or a steroids metaphor.
I think part of the beauty of Buffy is that you can honestly read it as being either, depending on your own context.
"I think part of the beauty of Buffy is that you can honestly read it as being either, depending on your own context."
Absolutely, if you're going at it with Barthes as your guide. But if you know about The Ongoing Bullshit, then you can't read it any other way.
"I always wondered was it an Alcoholism metaphor or a steroids metaphor."
Znegv Abkba vf n erpbirevat nypbubyvp, naq RIREL SHPXVAT GUVAT FUR RIRE JEVGRF vf n zrgncube sbe nypbubyvfz. Vg'f svar va fznyy qbfrf, ohg jura fur *jerpxf* n yngre cybgyvar ol znxvat vg nyy nobhg ure, V ybfg nal naq nyy erfcrpg sbe ure.
Is THAT why that happened? I had no idea.
Yes, indeed.
Fur pnaabg frr nalguvat, rire, bhgfvqr bs ure nypbubyvfz. Fur ehvarq gur jubyr Jvyybj-naq-zntvp fgbelyvar ol znxvat vg na nqqvpgvba engure guna n pubvpr, juvpu jbhyq unir unq sne zber fhogyr naq evpu qrgnvyf gb jbex jvgu. Orfvqrf gung, fur jnf gur fubjehaare sbe Ohssl sbe Gur Frnfbaf Gung Qba'g Rkvfg. Fur pb-jebgr gjb rcvfbqrf bs Znq Zra gung sbphf ba qevaxvat (jryy, zberfb guna gur nirentr rcvfbqr, naljnl), naq fur jebgr gur fperracynl sbe gur erznxr bs Sevtug Avtug, va juvpu gur er-vzntvarq Crgre Ivaprag vf na nypbubyvp sbe ab cnegvphyne ernfba (gur punenpgre cbvag oevatf abguvat gb gur fgbel).
V ernyyl shpxvat ungr ure jbex.
Frr, V nyjnlf urneq gung gurl jrer bevtvanyyl cynaavat gb xvyy Jvyybj ng gur raq bs f6, ohg gurl gubhtug fur jnf gbb cbchyne jvgu snaf gb xvyy bss, fb gurl znqr vg na nqqvpgvba fb vg jbhyqa'g or ure "snhyg" gung fur ghearq rivy. Juvpu… rvgure jnl, gung fgbelyvar vf ubeeraqbhf. Gurl'ir orra cynlvat hc Jvyybj'f nqqvpgvba gb CBJRE sbe guerr frnfbaf naq abj fhqqrayl fur'f nqqvpgrq gb ZNTVP yvxr vg'f n qeht? Ungr.
Lrnu, rvgure jnl, gung fgbel. Whfg. Ab. Jnl gb shpx hc gur cresrpg ybat-grez ivyynva nep lbh frg hc ba lbhe fubj. Naq or trarenyyl onq.
Cyhf, V ungr vg gung fur'f nqqvpgrq gb gur ubzbfrkhnyvgl zrgncube. V xabj zrgncubef naq flzobyf naq jungabg pna or ~zhygvynlrerq~, ohg trg lbhe fhofgnapr nohfr nyyrtbel bhg bs zl dhrre flzobyvfz, xguak.
Naq gura lbh unir ure fnirq ol gur fgenvtug pvf pnecragre thl. pbhyq jr abg, fubj
"pbhyq jr abg, fubj"
lrf guvf
Bu V'z fb tynq gb unir vagrearg zrg lbh.
Frira 7 zvtug unir orra n ovg zber vagrerfgvat vs gurl'q tbar guebhtu jvgu xvyyvat ure, gubhtu.
Jung V'ir yrnearq gbqnl vf gung gur Jvyybj vf Tnl punenpgre nep jnf n ohapu bs shpxrel ohg jr'er nyy gunaxshy sbe gur fpencf naljnl, Wbff.
Nyfb, abj V'z frrvat gur vagreiragvba va "Eriryngvbaf" va n jubyr arj yvtug. Htu.
I didn't know any of this. Interesting.
Scott has some good moments. He's not a very dynamic character, but he is a decent boyfriend for Buffy. Funqrf bs Evyrl, nalbar? V yvxr Evyrl n gnq zber guna Fpbgg, gubhtu.
gurl qrsvavgryl erzvaq zr bs rnpu bgure, ohg, nf zhpu nf v qvfyvxr evyrl fbzrgvzrf, ur pbhyq or fb qvfnezvatyl fjrrg. ur unf fhpu na ubarfg snpr. v ernyyl sryg sbe uvz (hagvy frnfba 5), jurernf v qba'g svaq zlfrys univat nal nssrpgvba sbe fpbgg.
Scott has moments?
Joking aside, V yvxrq Evyrl va Frnfba Sbhe, ur unq n qbexl "Nj fuhpxf" fbeg bs punez, naq fvapr V jnf zber bs na rafrzoyr sna, V nccerpvngrq gung Ohssl/Evyrl qvqa'g zbabcbyvmr gur fubj jvgu zrybqenzn nf zhpu nf Ohssl/Natry fbzrgvzrf qvq. Ur jnf pyvatvat bagb gur Wrex Onyy cerggl gvtugyl va Frnfba Svir naq va uvf Frnfba Fvk nccrnenapr, ur jnfa'g njshy, ohg gur jevgvat jnf fb sbphfrq ba gur ragver havirefr uhzvyvngvat Ohssl gung gur rcvfbqr sryg ernyyl tebff.
I thought the whole "pre-posy" conversation was cute. And he was nice in the cafeteria, when he's trying to make Buffy feel better even though he doesn't know what's wrong. And from the last episode his little "I don't know, I'm really going to have to think about this. Okay I though about it and I'm in" was cute. He seems like really good boyfriend material, partially because he is a bit blander than Angel. I'm not saying it's a forever love, but he'll make a good rebound.
Jryy, ubarfgyl vg'f abg yvxr Evyrl vf zhpu yrff oynaq.
I agree. The problem with Scott is that, yvxr Evyrl yngre ba, ur'f abg n fhcreangheny orvat.
Sbe bar guvat, gur nhqvrapr qbrfa'g ernyyl jnag gb fcraq n jubyr frnfba jngpuvat Ohssl gel gb pbaprny ure frperg vqragvgl sebz ure abezny oblsevraq (rfcrpvnyyl fvapr gung rknpg fhocybg jnf hfrq sbe ure zbgure, naq vg jnf sne zber cbgrag va gung pnfr). Zber vzcbegnagyl, jr rkcrpg Ohssl gb or jvgu fbzrbar rkpvgvat. V'ir arire sbhaq Natry cnegvphynyl ratntvat (V ernyyl qvfyvxrq uvz hc hagvy ur tbg uvf bja fubj naq n zber syrfurq bhg crefbanyvgl), ohg ur qbrf ng yrnfg unir n ovg bs zlfgrel fheebhaqvat uvz.
V qvfgvapgyl erzrzore jngpuvat "Fbzrguvat Oyhr" sbe gur svefg gvzr, naq rira gubhtu gur Fcvxr zneevntr fhocybg jnf fhccbfrq gb or n wbxr, V pbhyqa'g trg bire gur purzvfgel orgjrra gur gjb. Fcvxr vf n sna snibevgr sbe n tbbq ernfba naq frrvat Ohssl jvgu fbzrbar yvxr gung, rira va wrfg, jnf rabhtu sbe zr gb jevgr Evyrl bss pbzcyrgryl.
Jura pbzcnerq gb Fcvxr naq Natry, jung ubcr qb cbbe Fpbgg naq Evyrl unir? Gurl obgu frrz yvxr ernyyl qrprag thlf ("Pbairefngvbaf jvgu Qrnq Crbcyr" naq inzcver-fhpxvat-obbfg-ubyl-penc-v-qhaab abgjvgufgnaqvat) naq nsgre gur Natry beqrny, Fpbgg jbhyq unir orra n snagnfgvp pubvpr sbe Ohssl. Ur'f irel phgr, ur'f fjrrg naq ur jbhyq unir qrsvavgryl urycrq ure zbir ba vs Natry unqa'g fubjrq hc ntnva. Evyrl qvq jbaqref sbe Ohssl, rira gubhtu V tbg oberq gur frpbaq ur jnyxrq vagb n fprar. Vg'f abg uvf snhyg ur bayl oneryl svgf va Ohssl'f zrffrq hc jbeyq; ur fubjrq ure jung vg jnf yvxr gb unir n tbbq, urnygul eryngvbafuvc jvgu n qrprag zna. Ntnva, gung jnf orsber vg nyy jrag gb uryy, ohg url, vg'f Wbff.
V trg jul Fpbgg naq Evyrl qba'g enax irel uvtu va sna snibevgr yvfgf. Natfg naq qenzn ner jung xrrcf rirelbar pbzvat onpx sbe zber, ohg V guvax Knaqre'f fcrrpu va "Vagb gur Jbbqf" uvgf gur anvy ba gur urnq. Wbff pyrneyl ernyvmrf gung gur snaf jnag fbzrbar rkpvgvat sbe Ohssl, ohg vg jbhyq'ir orra n pbc bhg vs ur qvqa'g unir nabgure punenpgre ng yrnfg npxabjyrqtr ubj tbbq Evyrl jnf sbe ure.
Yvxr Fcvxr chgf vg, Ohssl vf fbzrbar jub jvyy nyjnlf or qenja gb qnexarff naq jr qrsvavgryl jnag gb jvgarff vg, rira vs vg'f cnvashy gb jngpu (frr Frnfba 6).
sebz jung v'ir urneq/ ernq, gung'f jul gurl qvq "fbzrguvat oyhr" va gur svefg cynpr, gb unir fcvxr naq ohssl trg gbtrgure, vs bayl sbe bar rcvfbqr. vg jnf whfg gbb veerfvfgvoyr gb abg qb vg, ohg ng gung gvzr, vg jbhyqa'g unir znqr nal frafr sbe gurz gb or va na npghny eryngvbafuvc. vg jnf sne sebz orvat rnearq lrg.
Ur'f qrsvavgryl Evyrl 1.0 sbe zr. Whfg znxrf zr Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ba pbagnpg. (fbeel Evyrl snaf)
I'M SORRY DID YOU JUST SAY [Evyrl] MAKES YOU GO "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"?
Move over, Wbanguna, because BEST. ROT13. EVER
ZNLOR GUNG VF JUNG UNCCRARQ BA GUR FUBJ. GUR JEVGREF FNJ NYY GURFR PBZZRAGF NOBHG GUR VAPERQVOYR PNEQOBNEQ FBYVQRE CHGGVAT RIRELBAR GB FYRRC OHG QRPELCGRQ VG GB LHZZL LHZZL LHZZL.
AMAZING.
Lrnu, V zrna svefg gvzr nebhaq V fnj uvz nf snveyl vafvtavsvpnag naq oynaq, gura ungrq uvz nybat jvgu gur bguref jura Ubzrpbzvat pbzrf nybat, ohg ba erjngpurf V nyjnlf svaq zlfrys srryvat n ovg onq sbe Fpbgg.. ur frrzf phgr va Snvgu, Ubcr naq Gevpx naq urer ur frrzf nggragvir naq pbaprearq nobir Ohssl naq gura uvf gjb orfg sevraqf qvr (naq url, ur zvtug nyfb or fgehttyvat jvgu pbzvat bhg nf jr yngre svaq bhg). Abg gung V oynzr Ohssl ohg V xvaqn srry yvxr uvf oernxvat hc jvgu ure va Ubzrpbzvat vf pbzcyrgryl haqrefgnaqnoyr (gubhtu uvf fcernqvat ehzbhef nobhg ure yrff fb).
V yvxr Evyrl gbb, nsgre nyy UR TBG GB OR PBJOBL THL :). V nyjnlf srry Erfgyrff fhzzrq hc uvf punenpgre cerggl jryy. Nu, V pna'g jnvg hagvy Znex trgf gurer, vg'f tbvat gb or sha.
Naljnl, Evyrl bire Fpbgg nal qnl, nygubhtu znlor vs Fpbgg unq orra nebhaq ybatre ur zvtug unir tbg fbzr qrirybczrag gb znxr uvz yrff oynaq.
So now we're two-for-two on episodes that center around Oz's werewolf nature but focus way more on other characters' reactions than what Oz himself feels about it. We get more focus on Willow worrying that Oz killed someone than we get on what Oz himself feels about it. It's a chance to push Oz outside of his incredibly large comfort zone and it's not delivered on at all.
It's times like these that Oz feels more like a Joss-Whedon-Zinger-Delivery-System than a character. Sure, he does a fine job of delivering those zingers, but still.
nyy bs juvpu nyzbfg pregnvayl pbagevohgrq gb Frgu Terra qrpvqvat ur unq orggre guvatf gb qb…
Uzz… gur ebg13 sbe "Terra" vf bqqyl gurzngvp… uhu..
Gur hasbeghangr guvat vf gung gur fprar va "Srne, Vgfrys" nobhg Bm'f srnef bs ybfvat pbageby vf jurer V svanyyl sryg yvxr gur fubj jnf tbvat fbzrjurer jvgu Bm, naq V ernyyl yvxrq gung fprar orpnhfr Bm jnf zber guna n "unun, ur unf fhoqhrq ernpgvbaf" wbxr. Naq gura ur yrsg gjb rcvfbqrf yngre.
Zl snibevgr Bm zbzrag jnf, V thrff, cebonoyl n "fhoqhrq ernpgvbaf" wbxr – gur qvpubgbzl orgjrra uvf vaare gubhtugf naq bhgjneq fcrrpu va "Rnefubg".
Gb zr, gubhtu, vg jnfa'g ernyyl n wbxr, ohg n zbzrag bs vqragvsvpngvba jvgu gur punenpgre; va tebhcf bs crbcyr, V graq gb or ba gur gnpvghea fvqr zlfrys.
firstly LOL I want to watch shows with Alice's Dad!
I agree about the bathroom scene coming across as accusatory. I can sorta understand the tone as people are dying, they gotta be quick and try and prevent any more deaths but the talking bout 'grim fairytales' as if debbie wanted this to happen as well is wrong. If she had survived the episode, I think Buffy's comments would've broken her even more rather than helped her.
xander, when your friend asks you to do a favour for her, you dont get up on the table and doze off! I mean sure, if you dozed off by accident, it mighta been a bit more excusable but she was only out the room for 5 seconds!
Buffy: "the solution? don't get hit."
Me: "… that is…. not where I thought you were going with this." o.O
oh god yeah! that made me cringe so much that my mind must be trying to forget it. i've only just rewatched this episode and couldn't remember that!
Seriously, her line there really made me cringe.
Man, this episode! I hate it. I hardly ever revisit it. It bores me to tears and on top of that, I do hear notes of victim blaming in it that I'm just not a big fan of. Yes, the abuse is portrayed well and the responses to it are realistic, but I don't think they're *right.*
Having no personal experience of abuse the most I can say about the Debbie and Pete storyline is that it's incredibly uncomfortable to watch, I have no idea whether that means it's realistic or well handled, it's just very difficult to watch.
On a completely unrelated note, Oz in a werewolf suit looks like a gorilla. I laughed really hard.
Aside from the badness the thing that distracts me the most is how it looks NOTHING like the werewolf costume from Phases. It's not even the same colour, what happened there?
We get some nice depth to Oz, he's kind of friends with Debbie and that mention of him being in the marching Jazz band. And he's also a cold blooded jelly doughnut.
-That werewolf costume is even worse.
-She was hardly out the door Xander.
-Buffy has other friends!
-I don't find the shrink creepy. He actually seemed cool.
-Poor Oz.
-Angel on the loose!!!
-I thought I heard a ftoo sound when Willow fainted. Like a tranq. I must have imagined it.
-How do you know where the chains are in the mansion Buffy?
-I guess the card catalog is necessary when Giles isn't around. I'd like to see modern kids try find books without a computer or librarian. I don't think my library even has a card catalog anymore.
-Jello!!! Green Jello is the best Jello.
-Ohhhh, they are Scott's friends.
-And I don't like them. I am glad you recognize they are being obnoxious Scott.
-Ominous glowing green liquid. Why would you think she drank it?
-Shrink is dead, isn't he. 🙁
-Well hello supernatural metaphor for abuse.
-Anger-Monster is about to get a Werewolf beat-down.
-Get him Were-Monkey.
-Does anyone else think Xander looks like he is dressing like a Mobster with his Hawaiian shirts?
-Where did rabid!Angel get his pants?
-I was thinking before that Angel was like a faithful dog but I only just got the Call of the Wild comparison. The thing is, if they were going to be optimistic about Angel's future you would think that they would choose White Fang to represent his development. The whole point of Call of the Wild is that Buck transforms from a “civilized” dog into a wild one. Angel has already done that. It seems then, that the only way for him to go is to revert to “civilized” behavior. I suppose using White Fang would be a spoiler of sorts that he would recover, unless he never does and his spin-off series is about him finding a good home, getting scraps from the table, and defending his chosen masters against evil before curling up on the carpet in front of the fireplace.
-How do you know where the chains are in the mansion Buffy?
The question that launched 1000 fics.
Get him Were-Monkey
This made me laugh out loud, fyi.
I would probably watch that show if Joss wrote it *pathetic fangirl*
Hey! Angel spoilers!
You totally can be. It shall be your responsiblity to teach the children all about tea and… uh… things.
Also, damn you, j and k, for being next to each other on the keyboard and for both producing valid words in the CA_E pattern! DAMN YOU!
I think Giles would be utterly unamused by naked people in cake.
He might take it somewhat amiss.
This is a difficult episode for me, so I don't have much to say!
-That copy of Call of the Wild is weirdly thick. I mean, that book is really quite short.
-I really dislike the narration in this episode, as well as the central metaphor that "all men are beasts." Did we have to be so literal? Did we really need a three-way beasty boyfriend fight? I just found it to be weirdly cheesy.
-That said, the main plotline resonated with me, and I found it to be a decent portrayal of the insiduous nature of domestic abuse. It was difficult to watch, which is what it should have been. I also appreciated that the episode seemed to "get" the idea of the cycle of abuse.
In other news:
"Of course. After Jenny was killed – I had dreams that she was still alive. That I saved her."
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I totally forgot about this line, but when I heard it this time around, my first thought was of you.
LOL same. In fact, anything related to Jenny makes me think of alice. Weirdly enough, I signed into my uni e-bulletin board system that they use and it gives you a list of who's been online in past 5 minutes so I scan down to see if any of my teachers are on (cos im like willow and I do this sorta thing) and there was JENNY CALENDAR. my face was like :O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O. she doesn't teach anything with computers but it freaked me out seeing it like that!
;________; Giiiiiiiiiiiiiles! *Clings to him forever to try and make it all better*
BU TBQ GUNG FPRAR VA GUR OBQL. GUR OBQL.
Vg jnf jnl gb pehry, gb tvir hf gur vyyhfvba gung rirelguvat jbhyq or bx, juvpu bs pbhefr vf evqvpbhyhf ubcr juvyr jngpuvat Ohssl. Fb, fb uneq gb jngpu.
"Of course. After Jenny was killed – I had dreams that she was still alive. That I saved her."
"That I saved her."
"That I saved her…"
Okay, I could have probably been alright, without that last line. 🙁 That is just sad and heartbreaking. Giles, please do not develop a guilt complex. With everything else going on, I cannot take any more Giles/Jenny related angst.
For real? Like I genuinely miss Jenny Calendar. A LOT. Like, irrationally so.
There are no words for how much I miss Jenny. I am seriously never getting over this.
*sigh* She's a fictional character.
FICTIONAL.
CHARACTER.
NO I UNDERSTAND YOU SO MUCH. I think about her when I am doing things that have NOTHING TO DO WITH BUFFY.
Ohg V jnag lbh gb xabj V qvq fnir lbh. Abg jura vg pbhagrq, bs pbhefr, ohg …nsgre gung. Rirel avtug nsgre gung. V'q frr vg nyy ntnva …qb fbzrguvat qvssrerag. Snfgre be zber pyrire, lbh xabj? Qbmraf bs gvzrf, ybgf bs qvssrerag jnlf … Rirel avtug V fnir lbh.
Precisely what I was thinking.
I LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH
V fhqqrayl whfg gubhtug, znffvir cnenyyryf orgjrra Tvyrf naq Fcvxr va gung dhbgr, jvgu gur jubyr 'rirel gvzr V fnir lbh' fcrrpu sebz frnfba fvk. V arire ernyyl abgvprq gung orsber, uzzzz.
It doesn’t help that it aired on the WB, which was sort of known in my time as being never serious and kind of cheesy and LOOK I WAS JUST SO OBSESSED WITH THE X-FILES. Is there anything wrong with a love that pure???
Love of the X-Files is the ONLY love. I'm still a rabid Mulder/Scully shipper and since rewatching the series recently have really started to like Doggett.
he has some qualities, yes.
The pure perfection that is The X Files is the closest I have ever come to ~true love~ in my life.
So if someone asks me if I have a significant other I can't honestly say no. I just have to reply…
"Not in the widely understood definition of the term."
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It must've been the most beautiful kind of love!
edit: why past tense? "It must be" should it be!
I love Doggett!! Not so much Reyes, but the Doggett and Skinner show–bring it on! Once you are willing to let go of the alien conspiracy ever making any sense, there really are some great episodes in S8 and 9.
I fully believe that Mulder's aquarium now resides in Doggett's home.
Add another number to the “keep someone in the library cage” count.
I recalled little about this episode other than Angel came back feral so this rewatch was interesting. Biggest takeaway that impressed me: how well they managed to integrate Faith immediately into the Scooby Gang. She’s not suddenly there all the time and it doesn’t feel intrusive – but she is there, incorporated pretty naturally into the storyline.
awwwww reading to werewolf!Oz, that is SO CUTE. That is cute heaped on top of cute to make a cute sundae with adorableness cherries.
They trade off! Double aww! AND OZ GETS OVEREXCITED BY RABBITS. <3 <3 <3 <3
You know, someday I’ll get over how distractingly silly and un-werewolfy that werewolf costume is. But that day is not today.
And then the weirdest, most metaphor-laden girl talk I have ever been witness to.
Random soapbox moment: [I hate hate hate this trope, the idea that men in particular (all men) are “beasts”. A lot of men are perfectly good people who don’t turn into monsters when ~tempted or triggered. This kind of thinking does disservice to everyone. It takes accountability away from guys who do awful things and it also unfairly smears all the guys who would never do those awful things, no matter what.
I understand that this is Faith POV, and it’s hinting at prior damage, a sign of how messed up she is. I understand all these things. But it still makes me sigh when this trope comes up on a show and it’s not challenged and subverted in a significant way. We get a, “it’s an awful generalization,” from Buffy but then events of the episode don’t really do anything to belie the idea.]
Hello Debbie and Pete! We don’t know you at all, so I’ll go by TVD rules and assume it’s now inevitable that you die horribly!
“No need to panic.”
“Just a thought: poker, not your game.”
School counselor who is completely awesome! PLEASE DON’T DIE. I DON’T REMEMBER IF YOU DIE AND I REALLY DON’T WANT YOU TO. Even with the dog metaphor, I just love uuuuuuuuu. DON’T BE EVIL EITHER PLEZ.
Oz showing alienation and resentment and anger and stuff. This is thrilling and I don’t even mean that sarcastically.
whaaaa? lol Angel whaaa? ok Angel being all animalistic but still fighting choreographed was kind of giggle-enducing.
I wish we could have adorable forensic adventures of Willow, Cordelia, and Xander in like every other episode.
NOOOOO the moment Buffy walked in, I knew Awesome Counselor was dead. WHY, WHY DO YOU DO ME LIKE THIS BTVS? ;_;
And now Buffy is crying about being scared and she needs him and he’s deeeeeead.
This plotline would be so much better if it was Debbie, in my personal opinion. It seriously should have been Debbie. I am disappoint, show. I’m not saying there isn’t a story to be told here about destructive relationships, and a couple scenes were very affecting, but they covered abusive boyfriend tragedy with Angel last season. I feel like they should have changed it up now and subverted the men are beasts line. (plus–It’s a smaller percentage, but both genders can be the abused one in a relationship and that wouldn’t have been an awful thing for teenage viewers to see.) It's fine if others don't agree with me and I certainly don't claim to be the arbitrator of good television, but these are my personal views ok?
The cage match (lol) between Pete and Oz was very suspenseful with our knowledge of what was approaching for Oz.
Angel sobbing against Buffy’s legs is kind of heartbreaking. Look, I am not made of STONE people.
I think you're right that it would have been much more interesting and pointed for them to subvert the gender stereotypes with Pete and Debbie. They already did it once last season when Buffy and Angel were possessed by those ghosts. They have the technology!
They already did it once last season when Buffy and Angel were possessed by those ghosts. They have the technology!
True! I feel like they could have pulled it off…
I wish we could have adorable forensic adventures of Willow, Cordelia, and Xander in like every other episode.
I would so totally watch this. CSI: Sunnydale! Buffy can slay, and the others can collect evidence and analyze it in a cool lab while sexy electronic music plays.
Highlight of this episode (for me): "I may be a cold-blooded jelly doughnut, but I have impeccable timing." Also, pretty much everything else Oz says lol. Overall, I thought it was a pretty solid episode, and of course, the Giles Knock Out Count goes up to 11.5 (way to go Buffy!). At least there was less head trauma involved in this one than there usually is when he gets knocked out I guess?
Hooray! You're keeping a "Giles gets knocked out count". I was wondering about this a bit higher.
Yep! It's surprisingly more difficult to decide than I would have thought, but this episode was pretty easy to figure out 🙂
"Beauty & The Beasts": Ha, this should be interesting to watch after having seen Jekyll.
– You know, if Xander had TRIED to read and stay awake but THEN fell asleep, that would be fine but instead he's like LOL NOPE, JUST GOING TO SLEEP. grr.
– I love the idea of an improvisational marching jazz band.
– "He's just being Oz." "Pretty much full-time." I love you Oz.
– The guidance counselor! I like him! Even though he's yet another dead black man walking on this show. He also smokes, so he's doubly doomed. Actually, make that triple–he is an authority figure who is nice to Buffy in a mentor-type way, much like the biology teacher in "Teacher's Pet." DOOMED.
– I think the fact that Oz was still in the cage when Xander woke up exonerates him. I mean, in the past, he's woken up in the woods, naked, with no idea how he got there. I doubt the wolf part of him would remember to go back to the cage after killing a dude.
– "Buffy Summers, reporting for sanity." I need to start saying that at my shrink appointments.
– THE GUIDANCE COUNSELOR IS HOOCH FROM SCRUBS. He played a guy that Turk and J.D. would play "harmless pranks" on. He would always (seriously) threaten violence in response, to which they would go "Hooch is crazy!" in an affectionate manner. That was a weird running joke.
– In fact, Scrubs had a lot of stuff that was funny at the time, but if I re-watched it now I think would just make me really uncomfortable. I mean, the goddamn Friend Zone is in the first episode.
– Right! Buffy.
– I do still love the Angel-as-abusive-boyfriend metaphor. I know it's more direct here because the episode is about an actual abusive boyfriend, but the Angel stuff has been there for a while and it's still pretty great that Mr. Platt can map out their whole relationship without having any idea that Angel is a vampire who lost his soul and turned evil.
– Poor Oz is so sad when he has to be locked in the cage instead of bailing on the upsetting conversation.
– OH NOES ANGEL
– WHERE DID HE GET PANTS
– SERIOUSLY
– Oh yeah, wandering around the morgue with just a flashlight… that's not HORRIFYING AT ALL
– Hee, Willow doing CSI things and then passing out <3
– Yay, now Angel gets chains and stuff, too!
– Whoa, I never noticed before that there's a mark on the floor where Angel… fell there? From hell? Or something?
– Buffy continues to wear pastels that I don't think she would wear. I love Faith's leather vest though. HEY I just remembered I dressed up as Faith for Halloween once! My hair was a little too short but I had vinyl pants and I carried a stake around.
– Buffy's actually using the Card Catalog OMG REMEMBER THOSE
– YAY, HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF TORTURE. Seriously, if what Ken said about one hundred years in a demon dimension being one day in the real world, he's been there for THOUSANDS of years. D: (I don't know if all "hell dimensions" work the same way though.)
– Oh man, Oz's Brick Joke line about being a cold-blooded jelly doughnut is one of my all-time favorite lines from this show.
– Giles definitely notices Buffy freaking out about the attack being from a vampire. Will he suspect that Angel actually has come back?
– At least this episode has an excuse for why they're suddenly hanging out with students we've never seen before–they're Scott's friends. Also, this episode has the only Scott Hope line I actually like–the one about hiring friends so Buffy would like him.
– Shut up, Pete. In this episode you are so annoying that I don't even mind Scott "Annoying" Hope.
– You know, it's not nice to chain someone up so they can't lie down.
– 🙁 🙁 🙁 the counselor is already dead 🙁
– "I don't need this anymore! All I need now is YOU!" THERE WAS NO POTION! IT WAS THE GIRL.
– Oh god, the scene where he hits Debbie and then suddenly transforms back into "nice guy" and then BLAMES HER FOR HIS ABUSE and then SHE comforts HIM and this is not even a metaphor for anything it is just awful
– Poor library table. Man, furniture on TV is so breakable.
– "Time's up. Rules change." I love that Oz gets to be badass for a sec.
– LOL Giles gets tranquilized! Ahahaha. Where's the person doing the Giles Knockout Count?
– I like that Willow PULLS OZ'S TAIL to get him to run after her.
– The look on Buffy's face when Angel breaks down and clings to her 🙁 🙁
– Ha, "eight iced cafe mochas." These days it'd be eight Red Bulls. Or Four Loko.
OMG MARK YOU ARE WRITING A YA NOVEL EVERYTHING IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD
"You know, if Xander had TRIED to read and stay awake but THEN fell asleep, that would be fine but instead he's like LOL NOPE, JUST GOING TO SLEEP. grr."
RIGHT? I mean, jeez, if you aren't even going to try, why volunteer in the first place? That annoyed me because it just seemed like such a ridiculous thing to do. I don't understand Xander's motivation at all.
Lol good timing asking about the Giles Knockout Count since I'm the comment right above you 🙂 Also, I totally forgot to mention specifically the "Times up. Rules change" line, but it is so badass and Oz-like with how simple it is. Although it's a good thing you don't wolf out right away when you get bit or scratched, because Pete as a werewolf? Not something I would want to see.
You know, it's not nice to chain someone up so they can't lie down.
This was my thought too while watching this time around. Maybe he's not trying to escape, maybe his arms are just tired from being stuck like that for a long time….
OMG IT IS HOOCH.
– In fact, Scrubs had a lot of stuff that was funny at the time, but if I re-watched it now I think would just make me really uncomfortable. I mean, the goddamn Friend Zone is in the first episode.
I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN I feel the same way. I still fondly remember some moments (most of them having to do with the Janitor, and Turk being hot as fuck), but I don't really want to rewatch because of this.
I KNOW WHAT THE TWO OF YOU MEAN, too, in regards to many series, actually. I got some DVD sets that sit there and look at me all taunty-like, "could you still enjoy us even if you're so much more aware of the problematic content in our plotting, storytelling and implied/explicit messages"?
I will never cease to adore the Golden Girls, though, come hell or high water.
I've been rewatching a lot of the Golden Girls lately and it holds up REMARKABLY WELL. So yeah, not that it's perfect, but it's STILL REALLY GOOD.
IT REALLY IS.
…
I think I need to make some Golden Girl gifs. Yes. Yeeees.
And I'm overdue on a rewatch, anyways, I've just been holding off because I'm 100% certain I will at certain episodes now that three of them have died.
And if memory serves correctly, despite the frequent use of "slut" and similar slurs, the show on the whole is a lot less slut-shaming than, let's say, Sex and the City.
YES PLEASE DO <3
ENABLER <3
*will cry
what is up with my typing today 🙁
TURK IS SO HOT
I FEEL SO VALIDATED RIGHT NOW.
YAY
BECAUSE HE IS INDEED
There's always Clueless if you want to stare at Donald Faison without having to deal with the problematic stuff :). Plus any excuse to watch Clueless is always a good one.
He's also in Can't Hardly Wait, but so was every actor who ever played a teenager in the 90s, I believe.
The counsellor is also Mr Moseby from The Suite Life of Zack and Cody (anybody else watch that?) the strict, uptight concierge…Also apparently he was in a couple of episodes of Friends but I can't remember him in any.
I love Scrubs, but some of the jokes are really hit and miss, I never found the Hooch joke funny at all. Also, I would like to agree on the Turk is hot matter. And Carla has the most awesome name ever (a name that I share).
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz05sgWcW71qz5stv.png" />
SADNESS.
It doesn’t help that it aired on the WB, which was sort of known in my time as being never serious and kind of cheesy and LOOK I WAS JUST SO OBSESSED WITH THE X-FILES. Is there anything wrong with a love that pure???
Since this is literally the same reason I didn't watch Buffy originally, I totally get where you're coming from. Don't be ashamed! X-Files is glorious!! You were right to be obsessed!
So first of all, somehow Angel found pants? Ok. I guess that was a necessary choice. I'm torn on Buffy keeping Angel's return a secret – I understand that she has no idea what has happened, was worried that he was the killer, and is just trying to make sense of everything, but I really feel like she could have let Oz know that there was a strong possibility he hadn't done anything.
I will say that I was extremely uncomfortable with the scene between Willow, Buffy, and Debbie in the bathroom. It didn't seem like they had much compassion for her, it seemed to be more them being so outraged that she could stay with her boyfriend and not understanding why she may still have felt for him/wanted to protect him. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.
I think Buffy understood Debbie a bit too much. We've seen that she's very forgiving of other people, but tends to be harsh on herself, or when she's projecting. This is why she had such a hard time forgiving first Jenny and then herself for Angel losing his soul. The scene in the locker room happens shortly after Buffy admits to protecting Angel from her own friends, because she knows they'd freak if they found out that he was alive. So I took it as more Buffy yelling at herself than yelling at Debbie. It's probably the last thing Debbie needed to hear and was absolutely the wrong way to do things, but Buffy isn't perfect.
Yea, that makes a lot of sense. It just seemed so frustrating in context, because I was like, uh guys this is really not the way to get Debbie to open up, and there was no like, oh hey maybe we went about this the wrong way kind of thing.
I had friends (and boyfriend) who made me watch Buffy when it first came out. I mocked it as "Dawson's Creek with vampires", and rolled my eyes a lot. To be fair, these were the same friends who made me watch British and Australian soaps on a regular basis. It took me a few years to finally submit to the Buffy love.
I had a worse reason for avoiding Buffy. My mother liked watching it. That was all. However, to be fair, her usual shows consisted of reality television and anything with vapid people participating in shallow arguments, and drama, drama, drama! With Buffy consisting of a pretty young teenage girl, that I what I thought it would be, annoying. I guess that was the point, though, as Joss Whedon wanted to subvert the cheerleader stereotype.
I thought this was a very well-done episode! It dealt with such complex subject matter in a way that, while not perfect, was certainly respectful.
UGH MARK WHY EVEN DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY THAT THEY COULD KILL WILLOW? jfkljdsfkljklrwjeirjiowenrion now I'm freaking out, because Joss is probably going to do just this at some point 🙁
In other news, MOAR FAITH PLZ. Also, I'm not really sure how I feel about Angel's return yet. I'm certainly glad he's back, and I knew he'd be back, but I am not sure I like the whole "centuries of torment" thing that Giles theorizes he experienced. For one thing, the difference between demon Angelus and ensoulled Angel is well-established, and this whole sojourn in Hell punishes the wrong guy (Even if Angelus was tormented for eternity, Angel is too). And despite that, I still don't acquit him for the things Angelus has done. UGHH EMOTIONAL COMPLEXITY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK.
^I'm not sure that last paragraph makes any sense at all.
Well, going by what they said about Acathla's dimension in "Becoming", Angel was tortured *because* he has a soul. It's an evil dimension.
ARGH, I typed a comment and then accidentally clicked something and the page refreshed. >.< TRYING AGAIN.
How did I never notice the alcoholism metaphor? I just thought of it as a modern-teen-retelling of Jekyll and Hyde. *facepalm* MARK, YOU TEACH ME ALL THE THINGS.
I agree with most that I find this episode a bit lacking, but there were a few standout moments like "cold-blooded jelly doughnut" and GILES' REACTION TO GETTING TRANQ-ED, OMG. So adorabley flaily, 'bloody priceless' INDEED.
Nyfb nqq zr gb gur tebhc whfg abgvpvat gur ybir'f qbt/ybir'f ovgpu gvr-va, cebonoyl jul fur gbbx Fcvxr n ovg frevbhfyl, fvapr fur'q whfg urneq vg sebz Cyngg.
"What I’ve discovered over the last thirty-odd episodes or so is that while the show certainly has the capacity to be serious, it’s so much more intelligent and thoughtful than I ever imagined"
That's what Whedon wanted. That the people who came to Buffy, would look behind the "odd" name that was Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Because once you forget the title of the show, you find heart and gold.
A show that can make you feel silly, heartcrushed, smart, laugh and cry at the same time. That's the genius behind Buffy. That's one of the reasons that makes you feel grateful everyday.
And I'm so happy that you're enjoying this show so much!!!!
OMG YOU'RE JUST THIRTY !!!!! lol
With 10 more, I feel so old now!!!! 😉 And I discovered this show when it aired so I was not a teenager anymore. But I've been touched straight to the heart by everything happening in this show. And 15 years later, I still feel the same. ( I WAS CRAZY ABOUT XFILES AT THIS MOMENT TOO!!! )
The parallel between the 3 "monsters" of this story is well-developed and the real monster is not the one we would have thought at first….
After all these years, my heart still melts with the reunion scene between Buffy and Angel.
Angel finally recognizing her, then kneeling down, crying and grabbing her while Buffy stands and only reacts with her face. You can see all the emotions passing through her face, between fear, relief and restraint joy.
SMG is just amazing with emotions and tears.
Awww, I'm such a Bangel lover….
Don't use the word "crazy" on this site.
Oops. Sorry. I missed it.
Poor Mr. Platt, he was doomed for the same reason as Dr. Gregory from "Teacher's Pet".
• Xander hasn't wolfsat before?
• That is one ugly wolf.
• …okay, I usually like Xander, he's my favorite character at this point, but I can't defend him here. Bad Xander! Bad!
• And I would guess that's WHY he hasn't wolfsat before.
• Faith and Buffy <3
• The image of a marching jazz band is great. Thanks, Oz.
• I may not have a whole lot of dating experience, Scott, but I would say flowers come before rings. FYI.
• Holy hell, a good guy smoking on TV. On a school campus, even.
• Poor Oz and Willow 🙁
• Scooby Doo lunch box 🙂
• Now I want a CSI: Sunnydale spinoff.
• If it's glowing neon green, it can't be good.
• "Hey, I may be a cold-blooded jelly doughnut, but my timing's impeccable."
• "Right. Bloody priceless." At least it wasn't a blow to the head this time.
• "Where have I been?" …that's a good question, actually.
• "I don't know what to say that's not gonna sound stupid or obvious." – Buffy sums up my inability to comment on the Debbie/Pete plot.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzq1vyiHK1qz5stv.png" />
Fuck off Xander. With your gay panic and none of your business questions. That is definitely the right response, Willow.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzq2jACwy1qz5stv.png" />
My Boyfriend's Back.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzq2w0NVh1qz5stv.png" />
Charisma Carpenter has the best face.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzq54dDbt1qz5stv.png" />
This is a really good, if very blatant, example of how victims end up comforting their attackers
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzq67vd9E1qz5stv.png" />
😀
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzq6l6Bvs1qz5stv.png" />
🙁
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzq6xhdmM1qz5stv.png" />
(;_;)
Transcripts by Angel versus Buffy
'My Boyfriend's Back' – OMG I LOVE THAT SONG FOREVER.
My mum used to have a 'Hits of the 60s' CD and we listened to it when I was little and she was doing the ironing and I would draw pictures at the table…
Sudden weird burst of nostalgia! :'D
The song popped into my head as I was watching and I was thrilled that it was done by The Angels.
That is too perfect.
Were Xander's comments really that bad? I kind of see it as him just teasing his friend. I'm sure he doesn't ACTUALLY care to know? hm, then again. >.<
And the "handling" is just him being embarrassed at accidentally saying something that sounds slightly kind of sexual.
It's more that they build on his previous gay panics and inappropriate questions. Like… if he'd been excited for Willow and like, "ooooh, which half!?" it would be have been one thing. But it was just a continuation of Xander playing like he's the protector of his friends' vaginas. So I agree that if it was a one off thing it'd be less annoying… but as a whole Xander just keeps bringing the "I'm not gay and why are you having relations with somebody who isn't me despite the fact that my girlfriend is Cordelia fucking Chase."
Well, tbh, the homophobic intentions did cross my mind immediately after I heard him say it, so I guess you're right there.
Nyfb, rirel gvzr Knaqre znxrf n ubzbcubovp be vafrpher pbzzrag, V pna'g uryc jbaqre vs gur ernpgvba gb Knaqre jbhyq or qvssrerag vs ur, engure guna Jvyybj, jnf jevggra nf n tnl punenpgre. Ng yrnfg gurer jbhyq or fbzr xvaq bs frevbhf qvfphffvba gung nqqerffrf uvf vafrphevgvrf engure guna whfg, "Bu, fvyyl Knaqre. une une." Vg jbhyq unq znqr uvf punenpgre zhpu zber vagrerfgvat, V guvax. Gbb onq.
I've never had much of a problem with Xander's behavior toward Willow regarding her relationship with Oz, because it's far from one-sided. Willow and Xander kind of have this odd, mutual attitude towards each other which comes across as both of them feeling protective and jealous when the other other person is dating someone else – a sort of "I have a prior claim" vibe, despite the fact that the two of them have never dated or openly expressed any shared romantic interest. As of Season Two, we learn that the two of them have actually shared a bed, which points to a extremely longstanding and intimate, if platonic relationship. I'm not saying that Xander's weird defensiveness and indignation over her being close to Oz is right or justified, but she easily matched it with her treatment of him after discovering his relationship with Cordelia – so at that point, for me, it becomes less of a Xander-is-an-ass issue and more of a Willow-and-Xander-have-REALLY-complex-and-confusing-relationship issue. She lashed out at him on a multitude of personal and painful levels when she found him and Cordelia together, and later attempted to use Oz's feelings for her to make Xander jealous, so I really can't fault Xander alone for his attitude here.
Just my two cents?
Nyy bs guvf ernyyl pbagevohgrf gb zl crefbany urnqpnaba gung ng fbzr cbvag va gur qvfgnag shgher, Jvyybj naq Knaqre jvyy jvaq hc gbtrgure. Nsgre ur pbzrf gb grezf jvgu gur vzcnpg gung Naln unq ba uvf yvsr, naq fur npprcgf jung V frr nf ure ovfrkhnyvgl (V qba'g ohl vagb gur vqrn gung fbzrbar pbhyq unir fhpu na vagrafr rzbgvbany naq culfvpny nggenpgvba gb zber guna bar zrzore bs gur bccbfvgr traqre sbe fb znal lrnef, naq gura "orpbzr" tnl bireavtug); va zl ivrj, Jvyybj sryy va ybir jvgu Gnen nf n crefba, jrag guebhtu n ernyyl qvssvphyg crevbq nsgre ure qrngu, naq jbhaq hc va n eryngvbafuvc jvgu nabgure jbzna juvyr fgvyy gelvat gb svther bhg jub fur jnf naq ubj fur eryngrq gb gur jbeyq, naq gung'f jurer gur frevrf yrnirf ure, fb V qrsvavgryl frr ure ernyvmvat zber nobhg urefrys nf fur tebjf byqre naq zber zngher… naq, nf V fnvq, va zl urnq, n ebznagvp eryngvbafuvc jvgu Knaqre svgf va gurer fbzrjurer. Ohg gura, V'ir nyjnlf fuvccrq gurz. Znlor V'z whfg cebwrpgvat gung?
Interesting points.
I disagree with your ROT13, orpnhfr Jvyybj fb irel pyrneyl frys-vqragvsvrf nf "tnl abj", naq V guvax jr unir gb npprcg ure jbeq. Ohg fur unf irel fvzvyne vffhrf npprcgvat Knaqre'f eryngvbafuvc jvgu Naln, nf jr jvyy frr zhpu yngre ba. Va guvf pnfr, gurersber, V qba'g frr vg nf Knaqre'f nffhzrq evtug gb cngeby gur frk-yvirf bs nyy uvf srznyr sevraqf. Jvyybj vf fcrpvny gb uvz naq unf orra fvapr xvaqretnegra.
BGBU, gurer ner cyragl bs bgure bppnfvbaf jura ur nffhzrf gur evtug gb cbyvpr ybir-yvirf, yvxr va uvf nccnyyvat Ovt Fcrrpu gb Ohssl va Vagb gur Jbbqf. ABG TBBQ.
V'z bs gjb zvaqf ertneqvat qvfphffvba bs Jvyybj'f frkhnyvgl. Ba gur bar unaq, vqragvgl cbyvpvat vf n frevbhf ceboyrz va zbfg pbzzhavgvrf (abg tnl rabhtu, abg oynpx rabhtu, abg genaf rabhtu) naq fb V jnag gb gnxr Jvyybj ng ure jbeq… ohg ba gur bgure unaq ovfrkhny renfher vf n frevbhf ceboyrz va gur tnl pbzzhavgl, cnegvphyneyl nzbat yrfovnaf. Vs fur unq orra jevggra nf n frys-VQ'q ovfrkhny Wbff jbhyq unir orra pevgvpvmrq sbe abg tbvat nyy gur jnl naq jngrevat qbja ure tnlarff naq gung fur jnfa'g, gb hfr zl rknzcyr sebz nobir, "tnl rabhtu". Yvxr V fnvq va zl ercyl orybj, V'z ernyyl ybbxvat sbejneq gb n aba-ebg13 qvfphffvba bs guvf gbcvp nf vg qrirybcf ba gur fubj.
V pna'g rknpgyl erzrzore Jvyybj'f gubhtugf nobhg Naln gubhtu V inthryl erpnyy ure pevgvpvmvat ure sbe orvat zngrevnyvfgvp. Ohg gur ernpgvba gb Pbeqryvn V nyjnlf ernq nf n erfcbafr gb Pbeqryvn orvat gur tvey jub gnhagrq naq ohyyvrq obgu bs gurz sbe lrnef.
Lbh ner pbeerpg gung Jvyybj jnf uheg ol gur snpg gung Knaqre pubfr gb frr fbzrbar jub unq n uvfgbel bs ohyylvat gurz; ohg fur nyfb znqr vg crefbany ol npphfvat uvz bs qngvat fhpu n crefba VAFGRNQ bs ure, jura fur unq arire znqr ure vagrerfg va uvz rkcyvpvg be unq nal evtug gb srry gung ur jnf orvat hasnvgushy gb ure, juvpu fur pyrneyl qvq. V nz njner gung vg'f cbffvoyr sbe n dhvrg haqrefgnaqvat bs zhghny nggenpgvba gb rkvfg jvgubhg rvgure cnegl rire fnlvat "Url, V yvxr lbh", ohg va zl bcvavba, Jvyybj naq Knaqre unqa'g ernpurq gung cbvag naq fur unq ab zber evtug gb srry ebznagvpnyyl orgenlrq ol uvz frrvat Pbeqryvn guna ur unf gb or ehqr be abfl nobhg Jvyybj naq Bm'f eryngvbafuvc. Gurl obgu pbagvahr gb orunir gung jnl, gubhtu, juvpu vf jul V qba'g srry pbzsbegnoyr crttvat vg nf uvf ceboyrz va cnegvphyne.
Er: Jvyybj'f frkhnyvgl… V'z urfvgnag gb oevat vg hc, naq V'z pregnvayl abg gelvat gb fvyrapr nalbar jub unf n qvssrerag bcvavba be unq na rkcrevrapr gung pbagenqvpgf zl bofreingvbaf; ohg V frr Jvyybj nf ovfrkhny sbe fbzr irel qrsvavgr ernfbaf, abg fvzcyr n jvfu gb frr ure naq Knaqre riraghnyyl trggvat gbtrgure. Fur jnf culfvpnyyl naq ebznagvpnyyl nggenpgrq gb Knaqre sbe lrnef orsber riraghnyyl trggvat bire uvz rabhtu gb qngr Bm, sbe jubz fur qrsvavgryl sryg n cnffvbangr, ab-ubyqf-oneerq ybir naq nggenpgvba. V'z abg fnlvat gung fbzrbar jub vf "zbfgyl" nggenpgrq gb gur fnzr frk pna'g svaq gur bqq crefba bs gur bccbfvgr frk nggenpgvir, ohg gung fgvyy znxrf gurz ovfrkhny va gur jvqr, grpuavpny qrsvavgvba bs gur grez. V oryvrir fur sryy sbe Gnen va n oerngugnxvat, harkcrpgrq, ornhgvshy jnl, naq ure qrfver gb shyyl pbzzvg gb ure eryngvbafuvc (naq nffhntr Gnen'f vafrphevgvrf, juvpu ner oebhtug hc va Frnfba Svir) yrq ure gb vqragvsl nf n yrfovna. Ubjrire, Wbff vf abgbevbhfyl ful bs npghnyyl hfvat grezf fhpu nf "yrfovna" naq "ovfrkhny", yrnivat Jvyybj'f rknpg bevragngvba trarenyyl inthr. V nz njner bs gur nobir-zragvbarq "Tnl abj" pbzzrag, juvpu V nz urfvgnag nobhg sbe frireny ernfbaf. Svefg bs nyy, vg obyfgref gur vzcerffvba V zragvbarq nobir gung "cerivbhfyl fgenvtug" crbcyr whfg "ghea tnl" nyy gur gvzr, juvpu vf… fghcvq. Frpbaqyl, gur pbagrkg vf ABG n qvfphffvba bs Jvyybj'f frkhnyvgl be eryngvbafuvc jvgu Gnen, ohg n urngrq nethzrag jvgu Naln; Naln oebhtug hc ure cresrpgyl yrtvgvzngr jbeevrf gung Jvyybj naq Knaqre'f uvfgbel bs vyyvpvg rapbhagref juvyr qngvat bgure crbcyr jbhyq znxr ure riraghnyyl erterg qngvat Knaqre, naq Jvyybj hfrq ure arjsbhaq frkhnyvgl nf na rkphfr gb olcnff gur snpg gung fur naq Knaqre unq, va snpg, purngrq jvgu rnpu bgure orsber naq gevivnyvmr Naln'f pbapreaf. Vafgrnq bs fnlvat "Naln, Knaqre naq V unir obgu zngherq nf crbcyr; V nqzvg gung gung unccrarq, ohg V nz va n eryngvbafuvc abj, naq arvgure Knaqre be V jbhyq qb gung gb lbh be gb nalbar ryfr va bhe yvirf", Jvyybj jrag sbe gur "URYYB, V'ir orra qngvat n tvey sbe gur cnfg fvk zbaguf! Zr naq Knaqre trggvat gbtrgure abj jbhyq or FGHCVQ!" nccebnpu. Lbh frr jung V zrna? Vafgrnq bs nssvezvat ure yrfovnavfz va n urnygul pbagrkg, fur hfrq vg nf na rkphfr gb artngr ure bja thvyg va n cnfg zvfgnxr – fbzrguvat irel punenpgrevfgvp bs Jvyybj'f crefbanyvgl. Ure qvfphffvbaf bs ure frkhnyvgl yngre ba ner nyy gvrq qverpgyl gb Gnen'f qrngu, naq guhf ner zvkrq hc jvgu ybgf bs anfgl thvyg naq frys-oynzr, juvpu V'z fher zhqqvrq ure rzbgvbany jngref naq nssrpgrq n terng qrny bs ure pubvprf sbe lrnef gb pbzr. V qba'g jvfu gb qvpgngr ubj nalbar srryf, svpgvbany be bgurejvfr, ohg V srry gung gung inthrarff, pbhcyrq jvgu Jvyybj'f frireny ebznagvpnyyl-punetrq pbzzragf gb Knaqre nsgre pbzvat bhg, yrnqf gb gur pbapyhfvba gung fur vf cebonoyl ovfrkhny, be jbhyq tb ba gb vqragvsl nf fhpu ng fbzr cbvag va ure yvsr.
Naq lrf, vg vf nofbyhgryl gehr gung Knaqre gnxrf n ybg hcba uvzfrys jura vg pbzrf gb gryyvat bgure crbcyr ubj gb pbaqhpg gurve eryngvbafuvcf; abg qralvat gung! Vg'f fvzcyl, va guvf pnfr, V guvax gurer'f zber gb vg guna gung.
I don't disagree with anything in this. Unfortunately, I don't have the time at the moment to give an actual response but I didn't want to leave you hanging either.
That's okay. Pesky real life does intrude. 🙂
Fbeel sbe hzcgrra ercyvrf gb gur fnzr cbfg ohg gur irel arkg rcvfbqr vf Ubzrpbzvat jurer Knaqre nccebnpurf gur gbcvp bs Jvyybj naq Bm RKNPGYL ubj V jnagrq uvz gb va Ornhgl naq gur Ornfgf. Nyfb Pbeqryvn vf njshy naq Knaqre vf rkgerzryl flzcngurgvp (rkprcg sbe gur syhxvat, juvpu vf fgvyy cerggl flzcngurgvp syhxvat) naq zl jbeyq vf GBCFL GHEIL.
Okay now that I've had a chance to actually read it at slower than skimming speed I don't just not disagree but wholeheartedly agree with you. Sorry I don't have more to say other than a rowdy "hear hear."
V funer lbhe qvfpbzsbeg bire gung yvar sbe nyy gur ernfbaf lbh qb + gur snpg gung Jvyybj vfa'g n erny crefba, fur'f n svpgvbany punenpgre. Orvat jevggra ol fgenvtug crbcyr. Gb zr, gurer'f n qvssrerapr orgjrra gung naq na npghny yvivat naq oernguvat dhrre crefba jub jnagf gb qrsvar gurzfryirf gung jnl.
yes, yes, yes to all of this!
Jbj! Ovt pbairefngvba-l/qrongr-l gvzrf! V gbgnyyl trg crbcyr jul fbzr sbyxf qba'g nterr jvgu gur urnqpnaba V zragvbarq; vg'f qrsvavgryl zl bja crg gurbel, naq unf ceboyrzf… ohg V whfg srry yvxr Jvyybj/Knaqre vf gur bar aneengvir guernq, fuvc-jvfr, gung gur jevgref xrcg ergheavat gb ntnva naq ntnva va bar sbez be nabgure. Rfcrpvnyyl jvgu gur nyzbfg pbzcyrgr ergebnpgvir renfher bs Bm'f rkvfgrapr, zragvbarq nobir, znlor vg'f whfg zr ybbxvat sbe nal pnyyonpx gb jura Jvyybj jnf… abg tnl lrg? V zrna, rira jura Knaqre unf uvf rlr chg bhg – frpbaq-gb-ynfg rcvfbqr be gur yvxr, Jvyybj'f gur bar gurer, ubyqvat uvf unaq; juvpu, sbe bar, cebivqrf n avpr obbxraq gb Knaqre fvggvat ol ure ubfcvgny orq va Frnfba Gjb, naq nyfb vf whfg phgr naq xvaq bs fuvccl sbe zr? Ohg nf V fnvq, vg'f gbgnyyl zl gurbel.
I really like and agree with your points in the first paragraph, thought I do disagree strongly with aspects of the rot13. :3
Bu tbq Jvyybj'f fhqqrayl orpbzvat n Xvafrl 6 vf fhpu n frevbhf vffhr sbe zr. V nterr pbzcyrgryl gung ure ovfrkhnyvgl vf renfrq ragveryl naq vg'f rkgerzryl ceboyrzngvp. (Gurer'f n fvzvyne guvat unccravat gb Wnpx Unexarff bire va gur Jub-irefr jurer uvf cbvagrq cnafrkhnyvgl vf gheavat vagb tnltnltnl.) Vg'f abg fb zhpu gung fur fubhyqa'g vqragvsl nf n yrfovna, juvpu fur boivbhfyl qbrf, naq n ybg bs jbzra jub fyrrc jvgu zr naq jbzra qb… ohg gurer'f fb yvggyr zragvba bs ure cnfg jvgu obgu Knaqre naq Bm gung vg'f jevggra nf vs fur arire unq gubfr eryngvbafuvcf. Guvf vf boivbhfyl na vffhr gung'f ovttre guna Jvyybj'f punenpgre naq fb V unir gebhoyr frcnengvat gur znff renfher bs ovfrkhnyvgl (orlbaq n wbxvat unun xvffrq n tvey naq V yvxrq vg) sebz obgu cbchyne phygher naq gur YTOG pbzzhavgl naq ure nf na vaqvivqhny punenpgre jvgu n yvsr bs ure bja. Ohg V'yy unir zber gb fnl nobhg guvf nf jr trg pybfre gb vg va gur fubj. V ernyyl ybbx sbejneq gb n aba-ebg13 qvfphffvba bs vg.
V pna'g trg qbja jvgu lbhe urnqpnaaba orpnhfr V whfg qba'g frr vg va Jvyybj'f punenpgre qrirybczrag gung fur rire jnagf nalguvat gb qb jvgu Knaqre bapr fur ernyyl tbg bire uvz. Ohg urnqpnaabaf ner n crefbany guvat fb qba'g srry yvxr V'z fnlvat lbh'er jebat gb guvax vg be nalguvat.
(The YTOG community makes me LOL)
"n ybg bs jbzra jub fyrrc jvgu zr naq jbzra"
Gurl'er Qnaalfrkhny!
LOL OOOPS.
Today seems to be a day for wonderful typos! Naked students in cakes, violet partners…
"As of Season Two, we learn that the two of them have actually shared a bed, which points to a extremely longstanding and intimate, if platonic relationship."
What?! Uh… when?
In Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered when Willow surprises Xander in his bed she says that it's not the first time she's been in his bed.
He retorts with something about them wearing footie pajamas then, to give you a time frame.
Oh, okay. I thought you meant that in Season Two it is revealed that Willow and Xander had sex. And I was like… mmmmmmno, I don't think that is the case.
Got it now. 🙂
That is definitely the right response, Willow.
A huge smile and a teasing, almost flirtatious reply is the right response to his comment?
well, when you put it that way… :-/
Gung'f npghnyyl n cerggl npphengr qrfpevcgvba cnegvphyneyl pbafvqrengvba gur riragf bs Ubzrpbzvat.
i like the werewolf costume….i don't know; it's not the typical "werewolf" look you always see. it's the buffyverse's own interpretation of a werewolf, and it allows the actor to be more present. since a werewolf isn't just a wolf, it's a human who turns into something that is a cross between human and wolf, i like their interpretation..
also, lmao so hard at willow pulling oz's tail
and "cold blooded jelly donut" lol forever. i love oz so much
I feel I should mention that I had a dream over the weekend which I promptly forgot except for one detail: it prominently featured the name Wbanguna.
I blame you all. 😛
I'm kinda intrigued, how do people pronounce Wbanguna? I always imagine it as 'Êba-Å‹É™-nÉ™, with the stress on the first syllable. That's a voiceless labio-velar approximant in the first syllable (kinda like a hw, but not voiced), and I pronounce the second syllable like in the MÄori word "Ngu" (like the sound at the end of thing, but said at the start of a syllable). The upside down e is schwa, just an short central vowel, like at the end of "banana"
Wow, that ended up taking a lot longer to explain than I thought it would!
Whoa, linguistics expert in the house! I pronounce it wuh-ban-GOON-uh. Although the middle "bang" is really a diphthong. Although your way is less transliterative and possibly more appropriate, given its greater similarity to "Jonathan."
Something like [w̆baÅ‹ËˈunÉ], but I'm not really sure about the <wba> part. I have no idea what I really want to express with [w̆b], but I do something weird with the b, I would say I have voicing for the whole cluster, though. My /Å‹/ may have somewhat of a plosive release, as well, making it both the coda for the first syllable and the onset of the stressed one.
I know this episode had deep themes that need discussing and stuff but at the end when Scott was saying how he had been friends with those people for ages all I could think about is this: http://nomorefriends.net/ and how he should have his own page… poor Scott. Sometimes I feel like he is a character that has just wondered over from a show where nice things actually happen and he had no idea how to navigate the buffyverse.
But then he goes from Buffy to Queer as Folk where he plays essentially the same [bland] character, except gay and a genius violin player. So he gets over his unfortunate Sunnydale experiences.
I think that the lack of compassion with Debbie has to do with the fact that they needed to stop Pete RIGHT AWAY and then simply wasn't the time to be consoling Debbie. She has the rest of her life to cope with her — oh wait.
Okay, that was terrible of me, but I still think that stopping someone from killing innocent people ranks above taking time to carefully and slowly and compassionately help someone deal with their abusive, murderous boyfriend monster.
My favorite lines? "I think we broke her," and Buffy's comment after about Debbie already being broken. So sad.
Also, some of the "outrage" about Debbie staying with Pete probably had something to do with Buffy's choice to kill Angel/us last season. Or something like that. Like maybe she sees a weakness in Debbie?
Buffy is a flawed character. It's why we love her.
Yes, most of the world knew that alcoholism, domestic abuse, and misogyny were bad things when you were 15. In fact, most people had figured it out before you were born. Try not to sound so shocked.
What? What does this even mean?
w h a t
most of the world knew that alcoholism, domestic abuse, and misogyny were bad things when you were 15
…did "most of the world" forget it again when 2000 rolled around?
Please consider checking your privilege, rather than toting it with you as a carry-on item, for the comfort of all of the other passengers on this trip.
And please exit using the left-hand evacuation procedure.
i can't
this comment.
is so amazing.
The point Mark is trying to make is that these kinds of issues are often glossed over and ignored in mainstream television, especially mainstream television aimed at teens, or they are dealt with using the saccharine "Very Special Episode" format that usually coincides with sweeps week. Buffy confronts these sorts of issues on a fairly regular basis; not just for the sake of ratings, and it does a consistently pretty good job of addressing them. That's fairly rare.
Are you being snide for the sake of being snide, or do you not actually know how to read for meaning via context? Because I'm willing to forgive the second one.
Hahaha, this is so awful it's now plain hilarious. Please continue commenting.
Okay, this is starting to bug me a little, but the late 90s weren't like, the Dark Ages. This is the culmination of 2 decades that brought us the After School Special, were we learned about the Horrors of Drinking and the Horrors of Drugs and the Horrors of Sex, and it's really NOT that surprisng that Joss, who probably watched a bunch of those in college (in that ironical "i could study or I could watch this thing not aimed for me at all" way that college kids do), would make this show as a reaction/natural progression of that. I would be less annoyed at all the "OMG THIS WAS MADE IN 1997 SO PROGESSIVE" if it really was that shocking at the time, but….in my experience, and among my friends who watch Buffy in real-time, it just wasn't. Was it great to see these kinds of thing addressed in prime-time? Yeah. but it wasn't like HOLY SHIT GET IN THE CAR.
This is just my Canadian showing but the protoype for all this (for me) is the original Degrassi High, which, as much as I love it, was basically a serialised after school special.
ORIGINAL RECIPE DEGRASSI WAS THE BEST. We actually watched a couple episodes in Junior High health and at least one in an all grade assembly. We couldn't figure out why, but it was better than algebra.
Oh haha I didn't know that schools actually showed it to make people learn stuff. I guess my school was just too conservative.
Also they at least tried tackling race issues sometimes, which was nice. Still haven't gotten around to trying TNG though.
I have a similar feeling. I didn't watch this at the time, but there were absolutely other 90's shows that prove that this sort of "Dark Ages" thinking is a myth. I think that Mark should watch more 90's shows (is there a place for suggestions?).
I see that the place for suggestions is closed. Too bad. Mark has some great shows there, though not many, to my knowledge, that dealt with issues such as this in a realistic manner. I definitely know that "Party of Five" did, and I *think* that "Class of '96" did as well (and if not it dealt with some other issues pretty well).
Btw, since Mark seems to be a fan of Cordelia, it might well be worth checking out the short-lived 1996 show "Malibu Shores" in which Charisma Carpenter played a character who was virtually the same as Cordy.
You don't seem to know much about Mark, or this site. Please do some reading for context.
You do know that the reason Mark is doing these projects is because he wasn't actually allowed to watch much TV in the 90's, right? He's catching up on the cultural phenomena that he missed out on the first time around. When he points out messages like this, it's because these were messages he was *not* getting in his life at the time that he would have found really helpful. So yeah, this would have been a really progressive and eye-opening thing for him to see in the late 90's. Just because you wouldn't or didn't have the same experience of it is irrelevant.
I definitely am not able to watch the episodes, and it's been a while since I've seen most of them, so I appreciate any episode "reminders"/"plot direction"/"warnings" you can provide.
Thanks Mark!
It was a while since I last saw "Beauty and the Beasts" but if I remember it correctly I think that in the scene where Buffy and Willow confronts Debbie about the abuse Pete puts her through and his violent nature, they act so prickly because all the things they say could be turned against themselves and they have both seriously considered that the murderer could have been Angel/Oz. That's how I have interpreted it anyway.
If it makes any sense 🙂
And OMG that was the longest sentence ever written, I'm so sorry guys for putting you through the task of reading that.
The one thing I don't like about how abuse is depicted in this episode? That it's so obvious and straightforward. Boyfriend turns into a rage monster and beats the ever-loving shit out of girlfriend. This really happens, I know. But when TV writers do decide to address abuse, this is pretty much the only way they do it. And when they keep showing that and only that as "what an abusive relationship is", it sort of makes victims of non-violent abuse (like me) feel like we're "not really being abused". Because we've been clearly shown, time and time again, that abuse is when someone, well, turns into a rage monster and beats the ever-loving shit out of you. It's not always that NOT SUBTLE.
ANYWHO. I also am not a huge fan of this episode for three other reasons:
1) That stupid title totally romanticizes the subject matter. "Beauty and the Beasts".
2) It's such a ham-fisted PSA (like "Reptile Boy", with the roofied drinks and the almost-rape and the penis demon).
3) It's sexist both ways. The girls are "Beauty" and the victims. The boys are all violent beasts.
So while I'm happy it exists if it helped anyone dealing with abuse in any way and yea for addressing abuse on a teen show in 1998, this is one of the very, very few Buffy episodes I've never bothered to rewatch (until yesterday, when I knew the review would be coming up).
I get what you mean about the "non-violent" abuse and how people don't often recognize it as such. I'm involved in another fandom, and character A (who has been in an off and on again relationship with characterB) was extremely angry, and in the midst of a fight punched a window right behind B, leading to a piece of glass cutting B's face. Cue a ton of apologists arguing that because A didn't physically hit/harm B, A wasn't abusive. It got even worse when one of the show's writers gave an interview essentially saying A wasn't abusive because B understands him, knows that he would never hurt her, and of how much love there was. Furthermore, no one on the show actually acknowledged it as abuse, and turned it around into what a dark character B was, and how she really dragged people down into the darkness. The whole thing was just a mess.
Oh yeah. I see a lot of that in media: the he/she's just *dark* and *complicated* rather than abusive/wrong.
I think the title "Beauty and the Beasts" is actually an attempt to subvert that particular fairy tale by pointing out that it isn't all happily ever after.
Random thoughts while watching the episode:
-Love the passage reading at the beginning – it’s eerie and sets the tone for the episode.
-New werewolf costume – not as silly-looking as the last, yet still hilariously horrible
-I HATE XANDER’S GREASY HAIR
-Snvgu’f “nyy zra ner ornfgf” erznex erzvaqf zr bs ure pbairefngvba jvgu Fcvxr va Qvegl Tveyf “Rirel thl unf fbzr junpx snagnfl. Fpengpu gur fhesnpr bs rira gur zbfg pehapul tenabyn qhqr? Anhtugl ahefrf naq ubeal purreyrnqref”
– I love when Giles get angry
-Willow pulling Oz’s werewolf tail = best
Quotables:
“Just a thought…poker, not your game” – Oz, I just love his line delivery
“This time it's not your boyfriend who's the cold-blooded… Jelly donut?” – Willow
“I hope you realize I don't actually know these people. I just… I thought you would like me better if I had friends, so I hired them” – Scott (I also love how Buffy does not seem impressed by his joke)
“They used to horse around”-Oz “They were screwing?” – Faith
“A freshman told me that Pete had 8 iced café mochas and just lost it” – Oz
“Great…now I’m going to be stuck with serious thoughts all day” – Cordelia
-"This story has one of the most convoluted plots in the series so far "
Agreed, there is too much going on and prevents me from loving this episode, because I do think that the concept and many parts of the episode are great.
-"The only thing that kind of made me feel weird was how aggressive Buffy and Willow were when they confronted Debbie in the bathroom. "
Good point, I never really thought about it before. I think it’s difficult mixing such a deeply emotional moment with the urgency of the situation.
-"Gur bayl ernfba V’z oevatvat guvf hc vf orpnzr V pnzr vagb Ohssl jvgu na vqrn gung vg jnf n fvyyl fubj. "
Fb hacercnerq. Whfg jnvg sbe frnfba 6. Abg gb zragvba Gur Obql.
-"V’z fbeg bs gur fnzr jvgu Pbeqryvn, ohg V ernyyl, ernyyl arrq n Pbeql-pragevp rcvfbqr fbba. V JNAG VG."
Ubj qbrf ur nyjnlf jvfu sbe fbzrguvat evtug orsber vg unccraf? (Ubzrpbzvat vf cnegvnyyl Pbeqryvn-pragevp)
-"V guvax gung’f cneg bs Ohssl‘f punez, gubhtu, va gung vg pna or fvyyl bar zbzrag naq qbjaevtug hcfrggvat gur arkg. "
Irel gehr. Gnohyn Enfn pbzrf gb zvaq vzzrqvngryl – ubj pna na rcvfbqr or fvzhygnarbhfyl fb shaal naq fb qrcerffvat?
i hate xander's hair, too. SO MUCH. i'm not even sure why i hate it THAT much, but i most certainly do.
Actually, that makes it funnier, because G is significantly further away from K on a keyboard.
Kind of new to this site so if I do this wrong please let me know I’m trigger warning I guess? I don’t really like this episode. I was in a pretty abusive relationship in high school and just after and there is a lot this episode does right in its portrayal but I feel like a lot of attention is put on the psychical violence which can be really awful I admit. I only really got hit one time but for me the emotional and psychological aspect of the abuse… Well it took a long time after I got out to even admit I had been abused because it wasn’t overtly physical and rationally I know and understand that physical abuse happens and needs attention but I just kind of wished more time was spent on the emotional aspect. And I love Buffy and willow so much and I get that people were dying but I kind of feel like their reaction to Debbie was too similar to how some of my friends acted maybe it’s just me but it came across as judgmental and yeah that’s just what I think.
I very much agree and have been there myself. "It's wrong and you need to get away from him because he hit you" is one tiny drop in the ocean of wrongness, and definitely not all there is to abuse. What needs more attention is the anxiety you feel before you know what kind of mood they're in that day, how you question and blame yourself (which was highlighted, but just barely), how you start to think you're unworthy of anyone better, that you eventually become so desensitized to it that it's normal to you, etc.
And yes, Buffy and Willow were very brass and judgmental and dismissive. They had to save some lives? Great. That still doesn't give them an excuse to shove her around, look down at her like some broken piece of junk, walk off, and then for all we know never see or talk to her again after leaving her traumatized and alone in the bathroom.
That's the huge problem here: you can't take this complex and hugely serious a subject and then just turn it into a simple & clear-cut Monster of the Week. "Let's spend 15 minutes total on the abusive relationship between two totally unknown and new characters who will never be shown again" is and was a really bad idea. Abuse is a great topic to address and speak out against, but that is piss-poor execution.
"Actually, vampires are used often as a metaphor for marginalized groups, and its one of my least favorite things? Because, like, I cant count how many times vampirism was a metaphor for homosexuality, and that analogy doesnt work because I dont suck the life out of other people. I think theres something inherently dangerous about vampires that doesnt exist for people who are gay or queer. " ~Mark
The one thing I do not have is a grasp of other people's metaphors. This is how I watched the x-men cartoon (even read some comic books), and still did not grasp that mutant prejudice was a metaphor for marginalized groups. I swear, I am getting better at this, but mostly, a show has to display a Captain Planet level of obvious for me to catch up. If I play really, really close attention, I can glean this from a show or book, though. For instance, Buffy "coming out" to her mom was super obvious to me… Therefore, it must have been like a neon sign for everyone else. The only exception are fandoms I have been involved in forever.
Speaking of, it is probably a good thing I did not see Buffy in highschool. I already project a lot because her issues are very much my highschool life, except I did not have it as bad. However, I found giant robot anime in highschool, so I related with emotionally fragile teenage pilots…. Not much better.
To wrap this up, I am so glad Mark mentioned Oz's werewolf form. My thought was, "OMG Were-monkey!" and "They can never make Seth Green intimidating can they?" This episode was a weird mix of serious issues and corny execution. They really tried to put a lot into this episode, and I can tell they tried. However, something is wrong when I come from this episode with the urge to give a "werewolf" a silver-banana. XD
Note: I accidentally deleted my original reply. Anyone else do that?
I have trouble noticing metaphors as well. I get proud of myself when I do notice them, like today, and I end up sounding flippant about it in my comment because I don't usually have something to talk about in relation to it so I just point it out and move on.
Me three. I often don't realize things until other people point it out at which point I'm like "THIS IS GENIUS! DID EVERYONE ELSE REALIZE THIS??" and they're like "yep" and then I feel foolish.
Qvq rirelobql ryfr xabj gur Fynlre jnf n ebobg?
…
I'm sorry.
Call of the Wild…that's a good book to read to a werewolf…NOT. I'm sort of split on this ep to be honest. I do love that they weren't afraid to explore the stuff they did (and the fact that I'm pretty sure CW, the WB today, would probably never air this episode makes me sad). But at the same time, I feel like much was fighting for attention here. But considering stuff, it could have been a whole lot worse and at least they were willing to talk about this.
Daily Buffy Quotable:
"Just a thought. Poker. Not your game."-Oz
"Oh my God. Scarred for life."-Cordelia
"Knock yourself out. Not literally though."-Buffy
"I hope you realize I don't actually know these people. I just hired them because I thought you'd like me better if I had friends."-Scott
"Great. Now I'm going to be stuck with serious thoughts all day."-Cordelia
My thoughts on rewatching this episode:
"Oh, look it's a character of color. And he's an awesome counselor. . . And he's dead." Oh, SHOW. I guess maybe you're TRYING to do better on the front of having some non-white people in your show. It would be helpful if they could survive a couple of eps, though.
Also, I've always assumed that Angel was the person who mauled that first victim, but today I suddenly wondered if I was wrong. Is it meant to be Pete? I guess so, since they say he was friends with Debbie and Pete was jealous. But if Angel is feral, then he's got to be feeding himself somehow. Is he killing deer or something?
Is he killing deer or something?
How many mountain lions are there in Southern California?
actually, A LOT depending on the area. I don't know about the Santa Barbara-centric region but I'm a while south of there and they even can show up in residential neighborhoods. (They were showing up @ dawn at a preschool in my city and it freaked the parents out) Any hiking trails have tons of signs warning about them with the last sighting listed.
There are so many feelings in this series. So many.
Goddamn it, CAN ONE NICE CHARACTER LAST A LONG TIME?
Uh, WHAT ABOUT GILES, YOU SON OF A BISCUIT??
I just wanted to say that when my sister was young and not allowed to swear, she would say "basket" for "bastard".
On a somewhat related note for the bodycount, what about the scenes of mass chaos and probable death? I'm fairly certain one of the party-goers in Dead Man's Party gets thrown over a couch or out a window in one shot and then a few minutes later a zombie in the same sweater is attacking Cordy and Giles on the stairs? Would he (and others like him) count? Or is that ridiculously hard to quantify?
A very random thing that always strikes me at the end of this is that David Boreanaz is on his knees in front of SMG, and SMG is wearing high-heeled boots, and his head is still shoulder height. Harkens back to when Jenny was amazed Buffy was the slayer because she was "such a tiny little thing."
Cbbe Znep Oyhpnf ybbxrq fb hapbzsbegnoyr rirel gvzr ur unq gb xvff ure. Gur zna cerggl zhpu unq gb sbyq uvzfrys va unys!
V xabj! Gurer'f gung fprar va Uhfu jurer ur yrnaf va gb xvff ure ba gur qrfx, naq ure gbefb vf gur fvmr bs uvf sbernez. V unir gur fnzr ernpgvba–gval gval.
Almost every time I think an episode of BtVS a little bit clunky or simplistic, it is because I have missed the metaphors, and parallels, and general awesomely goodness that is beyond me … the more I think and read … the better it gets … so even if a little clunky, it is always thought-provoking clunky, and not half as simplistic as me.
Joss-speak might be contagiousy … beware!
I definitely agree. It wasn't until this viewing that I finally managed to look past the clunky text and see the rather amazing subtext in this episode. There are so many layers once you spot the metaphors and see how everything pulls together.
Oz's werewolf suit kinda makes me think of the mst3k episode werewolf. I haven't seen the werewolf effect in a while, but thats what comes to mind. HOORAY CHEESY EFFECTS!
this comment is extremely personal – just putting that out there for those who want to skip on by
this was the first episode of buffy i ever saw. to say it was fortuitous, would be an understatement. it was something i happened across while channel surfing, caught my interest, and resulted in a, well, kind of obsession. see, at the time i was married to a control freak with an explosive temper, who emotionally and, at times, physically abused me as well. mark – i had the same visceral reaction you did to the scenes between debbie and pete, because her reactions were so completely realistic to me. anyway, after seeing this episode, i went online, and discovered this huge fan community that existed – the bronze – which led me to transcripts of episodes i hadn't seen – even people sending me video tapes of previous eps to catch me up. i devoured it all. i couldn't believe there was a tv show (a tv show!) that was so brutally honest about things i was / had going/gone through – that was so well written – had character development in such a way i had never been exposed to at this level – and i was a 30 y/o with a son who was just over a year old, pregnant with my second. and miserable in my existence, i couldn't tell anyone – i was a "happily married person" with "kids" who never for a minute could comprehend how my world had fallen apart, and my dreams had been ripped away from me.
i love buffy because this show taught me i had the strength to stand on my own, and say no more.
gubhtu vg jnfa'g hagvy frnfba 6 naq nsgre jngpuvat (naq erjngpuvat, naq erjngpuvat) bapr zber jvgu srryvat gung v sbhaq gur npghny fgeratgu gb gryy zl rk gb trg bhg. yvfgravat gb ohssl fvat nobhg "tbvat gueh gur zbgvbaf", naq ubj "fur whfg jnagf gb srry" fhzzrq hc zl ragver rkvfgrapr ng gung cbvag. naq nf pbeal nf vg fbhaqf – jurer qb jr tb sebz urer… jryy, v xarj. vg unq gb or nobhg zr naq zl xvqf…
okay, sorry for rambling. this ep just means a lot to me.
*hugs* I'm so sorry that you had to live this. One of the saddest aspects of your experience is how common it is.
i was a "happily married person" with "kids"
Our culture sells this lie — this fairytale — to young girls and women, that these things are the measures of success by which we should judge ourselves, and which we should use to compare ourselves to others. They aren't, and so many people bury and destroy their own happiness for the sake of this lie. There is nothing wrong with finding fulfillment in a loving, committed relationship, or in being the parent of children, but it is not, nor should it be, for everyone, and not everyone is a fit partner for the people who *do* want that life.
It sounds like you got out and you're doing better now. I'm glad. That takes a lot of strength. I hope you teach that strength to your kids, and that you continue to speak loudly and clearly about your experiences where other young women can hear you.
-Dammit Xander you had one job! Stay awake and watch wolfy oz. you better at least apologize
-Smoking on a school site? Eww.
-I think I'm gonna like Mr. Platt, that is if he survives past this episode…I mean new character, likely new werewolf, dog metaphors? I can put puzzle pieces together.
-God Xander, Cordelia's lack of tact is just totally dwarfed by yours
-Well that's one way for Buffy to find out…and now Willow gets to tell us what Angel is now.
-Oh crap is buffy not going to clear oz because she wants to keep Angel a secret? That would be so awkward
-I thought Debbie and her beau were so normal! Now she's comforting him because he hit her? What?
-Is Buffy feeding Angel or what? He's just been chained there for like two days….what did she think was gonna happen?
-Oh no Pete vs. Oz ??? vs. locked up werewolf
-That was a terrible Oz stunt double
-Is he gonna turn too?! Werewolf and glowy-liquid-aholic?
-Also where are Xander and Cordy this whole time?
-She pulled his tail!
-I do love me some Jack London
I found it very interesting that they never said "hell". Angel was in a "demon dimension," where time moves very differently. I really wonder what the deal with that was.
It seems like a bit of a ret-con to me, because in Becoming they very clearly said Hell, as in THE Hell. But in this season there are many hells, or many dimensions of hell? It's a bit unclear.
I think there have always been multiple hells. The hell that Acathla leads to clearly isn't the same as the hell the master was trying to get into when he opened the hellmouth. Acathla was going to suck the world into his hell while the Master wanted to unleash his hell upon Earth.
Seventh_Star mentioned above the quote from Platt about "Love making you it's dog" and I realized the metaphor was going beyond Call of the Wild. This episode seems to be really be playing off the phrase "Men are dogs." (Also the "All man are beasts" line which I forgot as well) Obviously not all men because Scott, Giles, Platt and (maybe) Xander didn't act at all houndish (I say maybe for Xander because I wasn't really paying attention to him and because some opinions may vary). And there is nothing wrong with being a dog; my college essay was about how I am like a dog because dogs are awesome.
Oz is like my dog: lovable, hugable, but occasionally has bouts of madness where he can't control himself and might bite you. Angel is like the dog who lives across the street from me: The terror of the neighborhood who is perfectly fine with his owner. He is afraid of anything strange though and lashes out because of that. Not evil but not to be approached flippantly. Pete is the dog that is too far gone to be able to be a family dog. I don't like to think that any dogs or people are irredeemable but that doesn't mean that there aren't those that you shouldn't approach without the proper protective gear.
EDIT: Actually, Scott could be a dog too. I didn't think of it before because I was focusing on the negative but Scott has a lot of dog-like qualities as well. He is eager to please, loyal, happy, friendly.
And going back to Phases, Buffy mentions that Oz strikes her as "the loyal type".
I think there's a way to fit Giles into this comparison if you consider his Ripper past, and the way it occasionally surfaces when he's dealing with Ethan or Snyder. He reminds me a bit of my aunt's service dog (a rottweiler mix) who is usually happy and friendly and calm. But God help you if you threaten my aunt.
i love dogs as well 🙂
"Gur bayl guvat gung xvaq bs znqr zr srry jrveq jnf ubj ntterffvir Ohssl naq Jvyybj jrer jura gurl pbasebagrq Qroovr va gur onguebbz. V qba’g xabj gung V’q tb fb sne gb fnl gung gurl jrer oynzvat ure sbe vg unccravat, ohg vg sryg npphfngbel engure guna flzcngurgvp."
V fnj guvf nf n cnenyyry sbe Ohssl'f srryvatf nobhg Natry orvat onpx, obgu ng gur zbzrag naq bire gur arkg srj rcvfbqrf.
OHSSL: "Ybbx ng lbhefrys. Jul ner lbh cebgrpgvat uvz? Nalobql jub ernyyl ybirq lbh pbhyqa'g qb guvf gb lbh." (Ersrerapvat Ohssl'f cebgrpgvba bs Natry guvf rcvfbqr naq xrrcvat uvz n frperg sebz gur erfg bs gur tnat, nf jryy nf ure dhrfgvbavat jurgure vg'f jbegu vg naq gelvat gb pbzr gb grezf jvgu jung Natryhf qvq gb ure.)
QROOVR: "Vg… vg'f abg uvf snhyg. V zrna, ur'f abg uvzfrys jura ur trgf yvxr guvf. . . . Vg'f zr. V znxr uvz penml. Ur-ur whfg qbrf jung ur qbrf orpnhfr ur ybirf zr gbb zhpu." (Ersrerapvat Ohssl'f srryvatf bs thvyg bire Natry gheavat rivy naq ubj fur nggrzcgf gb frcnengr gur qrzba sebz ure oblsevraq, svefg gb xvyy uvz, abj gb sbetvir uvz.)
OHSSL: "Fb jung, lbh gjb yvir bhg lbhe Tevzz snvel gnyr? Gjb crbcyr ner qrnq. Jub'f tbaan or arkg?" (Ersrerapvat Ohssl'f frnfba gjb fgehttyr gb pbzr gb grezf jvgu xvyyvat Natryhf, juvyr ur tbrf nobhg xvyyvat Wraal, Grerfn naq bguref, naq ubj fur pnaabg sbetrg gung gurve eryngvbafuvc jnf qnatrebhf abg bayl gb urefrys ohg gb gur crbcyr nebhaq ure.)
Nyfb, Ohssl'f "Qba'g trg uvg" yvar frrzrq gb sberfunqbj ubj fur jvyy xrrc ure srryvatf pybfre gb gur purfg nsgre Natry yrnirf gbja, cebgrpgvat urefrys sebz zber urnegnpur nf onq nf jung fur fhssrerq bire Natry.
I really like this breakdown of Buffy and Debbie's conversation. It lays out a lot of what I was struggling to articulate. It seems like only the last paragraph is spoilrey, is there a reason you rot13ed the entire comment?
Mostly because I find it difficult to avoid expectation spoilers, and because a lot of what I said included things that I think are not only relevant in this episode but also over the course of this season, and some points are discussed within future episodes (jurgure Natry fubhyq or uryq nppbhagnoyr bs Natryhf'f npgvbaf, Ohssl'f fgehttyr gb sbetvir uvz, rgp). I tried to edit myself to just this episode, but I felt a lot less limited when I put it in rot13. I'm a firm believer in "better safe than sorry," although I admit that I probably overdo it at times (at a lot of times . . . . :P). I think I'm too careful for my own good.
That makes sense. I tend towards caution, too.
"Beauty and the Beasts", AKA: the episode in which I curl up into a ball and wish it would go away
-I used to love this book back before I learned about Jack London's secret assholery.
-Hello there new Werewolf makeup. I find you rather silly and not-wolf-like.
-The way Giles yells at Xander actually frightens me a little. If he yelled at me like that I'd be groveling for forgiveness right there.
-I think I like Platt's approach to this, that having “issues” is not abnormal at all and nothing to be ashamed of. I don't get why people think seeing a therapist, psychologist, or “shrink” is a horrible thing that means there's something wrong with you. I've been seeing multiple therapists and psychologists since I was little more than toddler thanks to my learning disorders, anxiety, and depression (the latter two not being the reason until I was much older). It just means you need someone to talk to, and for some, get a prescription.
-Poor Oz.
-YIKES. Not your best look, Angel.
-Ewewew, I don't like dead bodies either. Cordelia and Xander have my sympathy.
-Assuming that in this hell dimension time passes the same way it did in the place Lilly and Buffy went, I think Angel would have been there more like thousands of years? The finale was at the end of Buffy's junior year and he came back a few days/weeks into her senior year. That leaves a roughly two month gap for Buffy.
-No, not Platt! And Buffy just had to find him when she was already feeling scared and vulnerable. 🙁
-Oh god, this is like “Ted” all over again except worse! This time instead of a secretly-gross and violent guy we have the one who is abusive and angry one moment, and calm and apologetic the next. And he's paranoid, and the girl is making excuses. Hello again, family parallels. I didn't miss you.
-”It's not his fault” “He's not himself.” “It's me”
-Oh my god, did he kill her? I don't remember if she died, oh god.
-Yes, get him Angel! I know I shouldn't feel so glad about a person getting killed, but I have zero sympathy for this asshole.
-Aaawww, he's hugging her.
-Oh no, she did die. I…I really don't feel good about how they did that. She had already gone through hell with that boy. I know in real life these things often don't end nicely and okay for everyone, but it really upsets me that she died after going through all that. Especially since I've seen similar behavior and it makes me think of all the ways something could have gotten way out of hand like it did in this episode.
-I am not okay, I feel the opposite of any good emotion right now.
Time to talk about my feelings (TRIGGER WARNING for emotional and physical child and spousal abuse)
"Beauty and the Beasts" hits way too close to home for me and manages to hit some very specific triggers on a level I didn't even experience in "Ted". For context, my dad has a mental illness which, according to my mother, caused his personality to do a total 180 (I was only a baby when he was diagnosed so I can't confirm or deny how dramatic the change was). It made him extremely paranoid, stressed, angry, short-tempered, violent, and unpredictable. He could be sweet and calm and perfectly fine one moment, and a monster the very next and it terrified me. The littlest thing could set him off, like a broken piece of furniture or something else damaged accidentally, one of us saying something he didn't like (like being lippy, "disrespecting" him, or telling a lie), and other things which would make most people annoyed or just a little angry. While he never hit my mother (he saved that for us kids), he did manipulate her emotionally. Since he was a "nice person" some of the time she made excuses for him and said it wasn't his fault, that she should do the "Christian" thing and stay with him. Even when her friends from church told her she should divorce him, she didn't listen and thought that if she just stuck with it everything would get better (this is why people who shame women for divorcing have ALL OF MY HATE). So, we continued to be on the receiving end of physical, emotional, and psychological abuse for years.
The character Pete acts very much like my dad, sometimes saying things that sound like exact copies of things I heard. Whenever he accused Debbie of working against him, said "you know you shouldn't make me angry", or blamed his problems on anyone but himself, I felt like I was looking at a mirror into my childhood. It was like Debbie was a stand-in for my mother and I combined and somehow this episode knew some very personal things about me and had put them up on the TV. This is why Debbie dying at the end upsets me so much, because there were a couple incidents where I was almost seriously injured and I do not like being reminded that things could have ended almost as badly as they did in this.
Holy thought explosion batman. Um…sorry for taking up so much space.
Never be sorry, I love your comments.
The hell dimension Angel was in could have moved at a different pace than the dimension Buffy was in during Anne.
I've been seeing a shrink since age eight, or thereabouts. Some of my friends are really, really reluctant to go see a shrink themselves, and that always seems so strange to me because I grew up with it. When I was a kid I didn't think "I need to see a shrink because something is wrong with me," it was just "I always have someone to talk to about stressful things," so the reluctance and stigma about therapy just seems pointless to me. Yes, you might have to shop around a bit to find the right shrink–which can be really hard when you're already depressed/anxious/at the end of your rope–but once you find someone who is good for you, it can be a lifesaver.
I also know people who would NEVER take psychiatric meds. I was even one of those people, until I got so depressed and anxious that I couldn't function, and then I was like "YES ANYTHING JUST MAKE IT STOP." Meds are no picnic, for certain–they have crappy side effects and sometimes take weeks to work and sometimes DON'T work and then you have to try a different one with completely different crappy side effects. And I hate the pharmaceutical industry and how they're always pushing new drugs on doctors so that they can get more money for meds that aren't in generic form yet. But again, they can be lifesavers.
ANYWAY
*hugs for you* 🙁 I also get really upset when the "damaged" person dies, because it seems to be saying "if you are damaged there is no happy ending for you."
I'm pretty sure that if any doctor ever actually heard how bad my moods can get, I'd be on enough antidepressants to put a herd of elephants in a blissed-out stupor, but here's the thing: I've had three friends try to kill themselves thanks to dosages gone wrong. One ended up in the ER. Another ended up, very literally, in a rubber room, not long after I had a scary scary phone conversation with her and then sat there 2,000 miles away feeling helpless. I'm aware that these meds can and obviously do help a lot of people, but I'm not sure I'm ever not going to be terrified of them. Wish it weren't that way, because willpower and chocolate only gets a girl so far….. *wry smile*
I am 100% against people being medicated or institutionalized against their will. Nobody has ever forced medication on me–they've strongly recommended it, but I've always been able to say "no" if I wanted. But I've never been suicidal, and I know that can be a completely different story–you say you're thinking of killing yourself and all of a sudden people are allowed to violate your bodily consent any which way they want with society looking on approvingly. I think that's bullshit.
"Yes, you might have to shop around a bit to find the right shrink–which can be really hard when you're already depressed/anxious/at the end of your rope–but once you find someone who is good for you, it can be a lifesaver."
It can be especially hard when insurance companies decide to change their policies so that the therapist you've been seeing for years is suddenly not covered anymore and you have to find a new one. My parents' insurance company has done that to us several times over the years, and I've given up on having a therapist at all anymore because I just don't feel like starting over again. Not to mention the fact that I live in a conservative area and would be hard pressed to find a therapist who wouldn't try to un-gay me. But, back when I did have one, it really was a big help. I think a lot of people would benefit from going to therapy if a.) it was more affordable and b.) if there wasn't such a stigma attached to it.
About the psych meds, you do have to be really careful with those. Thankfully mine never helped me attempt suicide (although I was having such thoughts at the time), but if you take too many different medications at one time, it can really mess you up. I have a younger brother with a long list of meds he has to take for various reasons, and just adding or taking away one of them can mean a world of difference in terms of his mood and even personality to an extent.
And thank you for the hugs.
Ugh, don't even get me STARTED on the insurance thing. The hoops people have to jump through just to get some basic health care are ridiculous. I'm glad the parity law was passed, but I don't think it's really going to get better until health insurance companies are eliminated. If that ever happens. Someone please make that happen.
I am taking a cocktail of meds right now and my psychiatrist believes that people should be on as few medications as possible, so he keeps trying to remove one of them or make me try a new one that will supposedly do the job of all of them. But every time, my depression and/or anxiety come flooding back. So I'll stick with my cocktail, even if it is a whole bunch of meds. Thankfully the side effect profile is relatively low. A family member ended up in the hospital after taking MAOIs.
I'm not sure how to post pictures on this website so I hope this works.
Notice the rather interesting poster in the locker room behind Buffy, in the scene in which she's lecturing Debbie about abusive relationships:
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz04hbE4ri1rnob…
"MOST WOMEN AREN'T ATTRACTED TO DEAD GUYS." (!!!)
W O W !
It looks like there might be a line of text about that too, I wonder what it says…
"Being attracted to dead guys isn't normal. But on meth it is."
(no I have no idea what it says)
NICE CATCH.
ETA: also use the [img src="URL"] html tag to post a picture in your post. Replace the [] with less than/greater than signs.
Thanks. Let's try how it works: <img src="http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz04hbE4ri1rnobf0o1_500.jpg">
Haha oh wow, that is a good catch. Why do I never get to notice things like this?!
perfect set dressing
And now I'm caught up with you watching Buffy too. I'm enjoying this and your reading of LOTR so immensely. These are two of my all time favorite fandoms and I'm just so thrilled you're doing both at the same time. Season 3 is one of the best, imo, and I'm really looking forward to some of your reactions on specific eps.
Bring it on!
Me too! I found out about "Mark Watches" on Whedonesque, which was lucky because I do not check that website consistently. Then I ventured over to Mark Reads and found that he had just finished doing the Hobbit, which I happened to be re-reading at that time (due to my excitement about the Hobbit trailer).
It's great to be able to watch/read both in their entirety and have other fans doing the same!
This episode pisses me off for a lot of reasons. I'm pissed that they introduce a counselor for Buffy and then just kill him off. And I'm really pissed at how Xander is ruthlessly yelled at and it just passes by like he deserves to be yelled at that harshly. Last season Snyder said he was a waste of space and no one on the show commented on it. I don't know why Joss beats on Xander (the obvious plot device of having it be Xander who screws up).
And by the way…. who left the damn window open in the first place? It's not like the wolf can work a latch. Grrrrr. It was sloppy writing this time.
What really gets me about how Xander is handled by the writers is that so far he hasn't been called on a lot of his outright douchebaggery (such as not telling Buffy about Angel being resouled, trying to put Cordy under a love spell, not telling Buffy he remembered what he did when he was posessed by the hyena, or all of the general slut shaming/nice guy-ness) but everyone is really quick to reprimand him over things like falling asleep.
It almost feels like the writers wrote that so they could point to it and say "see, Xander faces consequences for his mistakes, right there, Giles yelled at him and everyone was generally displeased."
I honestly don’t think Joss & co have any problem with 1) Xander not telling Buffy about the hyena memories, 2) comments he makes or 3) his feelings for Buffy. Their interviews and comments seem to me to say that Xander is just being a ‘normal moronic teenage’ boy and isn’t that funny. When Giles made that comment about how Xander was acting (before he realized he was possessed) and when Xander made the comment about linoleum — it’s this kind of dialog that gives me the impression that Joss & co think they can have Xander do these things because he’s immature.
V pbhyq frr gur nypbubyvp sngure onpxfgbel nf gelvat gb ohvyq flzcngul, but this other stuff — I’m just not sure if “sympathy’ was what they were going for. If they were, I would think it would be more obviously “unfair”. As it stands, some audience members think Giles is right and more power too him. If it was a sympathy move, it doesn’t really work. And, as you say, if they felt like his character needed to be more liked, they would not have him say comments that irk.
It’s not that I don’t see your point,, and you could be right — but I think something else is going on — but I’m not sure what.
two clarifying note:
1) I'm attempting to quote Giles from The Pack with my words in quotes, I think that is the word he used. I understand site rules about slurs. I think Giles is speaking for Joss in this instance.
2) I'm not approving of what Xander says/does by saying I don't think Joss & co have a problem with it — I'm saying that I don't think they are apologizing or providing repercussions OR they wouldn't keep having Xander say/do those things.
I hope this makes sense.
Here it is: The very first episode of Buffy I ever wached. I was 14 years old and never looked back. It very quickly became my favorite show of all time (until Lost happened).
As for the episode itself; it's okay and I like it fine, but it's not really a favorite of mine.
my heart……….
Don't have much here to add beyond:
1. I needed a Mr Platt so very badly in my teenage years. I looooooove him. He is my favorite single-episode character of BUFFY.
2. This episode contains my most fury-evoking line of the series: "Don't get hit."
I am not overly sensitive and let a lot of things go on TV shows, but that is really an irresponsible line in a show that was initially marketed to teenagers.
I like your usage of "english" as a verb.
it’s why I’m writing a YA fiction novel.
WHATTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!! Mark, this is kind of late in the day to expect a reply, BUT YOU CANNOT THROW OUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND JUST LEAVE US HANGING THERE! DETAILS?!!! please?!!
I didn't get the chance to do a proper thoughts while watching post this time due to my download taking years and me being in a pretty terrible mood. I'm not sure if I'd have had much to say about this one anyway. It's one of those I feel slightly conflicted about it in that it has some great moments but overall the storyline is a slightly odd one. Buffy and WIllow always seem too critical of Debbie to me, although that may be due to overidentification with her as some other commenters have said. I don't know, it still leaves a slightly bad taste in my mouth. It doesn't help that the acting isn't the best on the villain front, it's way too hammy for me. Also, Faith's role in this episode seems like she's there mainly to remind people that she still exists.
On the plus side we do get chained and feral Angel which is something to be thankful for. I think if Angel was kept like that in every episode I might like him more on Buffy :D.
Something that I found amusing was how Mr. Platt is smoking a cigarette in his office when Buffy comes in, then starts spraying something to clear the smell. You'd never see a high school therapist smoking in 2012.
MMMM. Nothing adds to the scent of stale cigarette smoke like a nice blast of air freshener.
That's really interesting. I'm glad someone is working on a way to help with the gap between starting anti-depressants and having them kick in.
*stops reading* MARK. Please tell me you chatted at ChatPhiles. It will make my life complete.
Quick bit of Qnja love:
V'z thrffvat fur jnf zbfgyl nofrag sebz guvf rcvfbqr – cebonoyl ragveryl nofrag, fvapr gurer'f ab fprarf ng Ohssl'f ubhfr naq abjurer gb chg ure gung ernyyl znxrf frafr – ohg Ohssl fng ure qbja jvgu bar bs gubfr nsgre fpubby fcrpvnyf ba nohfr naq gbyq ure gb arire raq hc yvxr gung.