In the fourteenth episode of the third season of Battlestar Galactica, a large group of Sagittaron refugees boards the Galactica carrying a fatal (but treatable) disease. When they claim that a specific doctor is poisoning them, Helo must determine if he can put aside his own biases to find the truth. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Battlestar Galactica.
I think anyone watching “The Woman King” probably felt a growing sense of discomfort at what unfolded on the screen, but I personally thought my stomach and my heart would eat each other and explode until the big climactic reveal at the end of this episode. For me, this episode hits particularly hard because it works so well as a general metaphor for the experience of institutional and personal acts of racism. As someone who has grown up in a world where this is still a reality (and having been a victim of racism just less than a month ago!), there’s certainly a whole lot to like about the way that “The Woman King” portrays how prejudice combines with power to wreck and ruin lives.
(Just a heads up, as there will be frank talk about racism in its many forms below in case you’re not up to reading about it right now.)
I don’t think the analogy is entirely perfect, but I don’t mean to say it’s at all bad. It’s just that there’s really no way to write a perfect analogy for what racism does in a fictional setting like this because it’s so pervasive and so complicated. Yet there are so many tiny and gigantic moments throughout “The Woman King” that had me either nodding my head in approval (YES, YES, THAT IS EXACTLY HOW IT IS) or grimacing in discomfort.
The history of the Sagittarons is brought forward in numerous ways in this episode, and we must remember that of all the colonies, they were the most oppressed and exploited. We are given multiple perspectives of different Sagittarons, from Dualla, who still proudly proclaims she is one, to Zarek, who was essentially ostracized because of his crimes, to Portia King, who is still a member of this society. It’s important to note a couple things about how this is written, and why I ultimately like it so much. The Sagittaron culture is inconceivable to the majority of people, and most are so revolted by it that they take no steps to even learn the slightest thing about it. If you pay attention, you’ll see how it’s accepted to be casually dismissive of everything it means to be a Sagittaron, and even those high up in command are comfortable writing off the culture as “crazy” or depraved or primitive. In fact, until Helo gets involved, there’s not a person to question or correct this mentality anywhere.
This is part of what creates an atmosphere for damaging acts of casual and systematic racism. (And it’s important to note that the word means something slightly different in the Battlestar Galactica universe, since their concept of race is built off of the colonies and not so much on skin color.) We have a climate of officers, admirals, and other people in a position of power who all believe it is entirely rational and acceptable to dismiss the concerns of a whole group of people simply because of their beliefs and where they used to live. It’s never vocalized that way, but that’s the undercurrent here: these people are weird and not advanced and not like us at all. Why should we care?
Once you combine this with the introduction of the Mellorak infection, “The Woman King” demonstrates the disaster that unfolds. By holding positions of power, the people who hold deep-seeded prejudices towards the Sagittarons both have the ability to restrict their access to necessary resources and escape any and all accountability for these actions because the system inherently supports them for it. At no point does Admiral Adama say, “I am totally cool with you either ignoring or murdering the Sagittarons,” to Michael Robert. He doesn’t need to. By calling Helo’s accusations “unfounded” and using his power to quell dissent in the way he does, he is sending that unspoken message: this may continue. You do not need to fear the repercussions of your actions because there are none.
I am also glad the episode goes to great lengths to give us the voice of the affected group, this time all through Portia King, who is the titular character. (God, I love that I thought the title referred to something entirely different.) And here is where I really do feel like Battlestar Galactica did this right. As someone who is a Sagittaron and has witnessed the discrimination right before her eyes, who knows with all her heart that something horrible happened to her son, who is watching her people perish, she vocalizes this multiple times to anyone who might listen, especially Helo. And what is she met with? Dismissal. She is ignored. She is told that she is paranoid, that she’s too loud, that she’s a nuisance. She is told that her culture is to blame, that there can’t possibly be anything wrong with the establishment. Even Helo, as noble as he is here, asks Portia King why she trusted the doctor in the first place, trying to shift the blame even on microscopic level. Naturally, the loaded question offends her because it’s not the issue at hand: Dr. Robert killed her child, and no matter what her culture is, or where she’s from, or what the timeline was when she did allow him to get medicine, this is not her fault.
Even when Helo starts to believe that Dr. Robert is purposely withholding medicine or giving the Sagittarons a placebo of sorts, we get to witness just how power can be used to oppress other people. No matter how many times Helo tries to raise suspicion that something is wrong, he is refused any grounds to speak. I already addressed Adama’s implicit part of this, but I actually think Colonel Tigh’s reaction to Helo’s accusations is more telling. Even if there might be some truth to what the man says, Tigh shows Helo that HE DOESN’T CARE. Dr. Robert is on the right side! He is loyal! He is one of them, and he couldn’t possibly be doing something like that! How dare you even suggest a thing!
And it’s this that allows Dr. Roberts to run rampant. Even if there are people like that doctor, Doc Cottle, Tigh, and Tyrol who display their bias out in the open, we see that those who choose not to speak up and correct them and shut them down are just as implicit in what happens. It’s because they do nothing to send the message that this sort of bigotry, even when spoken as a joke or an offhand comment, is at all acceptable. So it continues. It continues, and it grows, and it festers, and it spreads so deep and so far and so completely that even when someone who is part of the marginalized group (Helo, in this example) tries to fight back, he is met with derision, hatred, violence, cries of disloyalty, and rage. Even when he is able to demonstrate a clear pattern (DATING BACK TO NEW CAPRICA!!!) that shows that Sagittarons face a fatality rate of OVER 90% while in the care of Dr. Robert, his “proof” of a systematic failure is still just an “obsession” or the work of a man who desires to be a martyr. The “evidence” that Doc Cottle requires is all framed in a way that benefits him, and I am happy that it’s portrayed this way. The people in power demand that those they’ve subjugated provide “evidence” in their terms. Anecdotal evidence means nothing; they control the method by which to air grievances.
What I’ve just described is something I have lived with, from those days in Boise, Idaho, where my brother and I were the only two brown kids amongst hundreds of white children, where people thought we were from a foreign country and practiced weird voodoo magic. (Yes, that really happened to me. When I was seven.) I have been told that I’m “obsessed” with white people when I try to point out institutionalized racism. I have been told I’m un-American, that I have no loyalty to my country. I’m too mean. I’m too loud. It’s my own people’s fault that Mexicans are so disrespected in the United States. If only we had just assimilated into this country better, no one would have a problem.
Every example of this sort of bigotry that appears in “The Woman King” is something that I, as a person of color, have lived. Again, I don’t think the metaphor extends to everything, and it doesn’t always address how race intersections with other institutional marginalizations in the best way. But I think that this episode shows people how a culture of prejudice can create an environment where horrible things happen. And even though people would like to say we here in the United States live in a “post-racial” society, I can point to countless acts of racism, even in modern movements like Occupy Wall Street, or New York’s SlutWalk, or in voter identification laws being used to discourage people of color (amongst other groups, like the elderly, immigrants, and students) from voting in elections. We are not in post-racial America. It does not exist.
This episode shows us that we need to start listening to voices who are crying out about discrimination and hatred, that we need to put aside our preconceived notions of things we have no experience with, that we have to start dismantling this systemic problem by turning to those around us and telling them to–if you’ll excuse my blunt phrase–shut the fuck up.
By the way, have I told you how much I love this show?
One last thing that I can’t not talk about: I celebrate the return of Head Baltar. I think that it’s one of the most fascinating dynamics in the entire show, and I love the chance to see that snarky, sarcastic version of Baltar, to see Caprica Six in a different role than we’re used to. I am genuinely interested into what she thinks she is going to do on Galactica. I’m sure Athena is right, that her best chance for survival is to assist the humans, but what is she going to take from Head Baltar’s suggestion to act like a human?
Right, I LOVE THIS SHOW DEARLY.
This is the official "Mark Has His 28th Birthday Weekend Next Weekend So He Had To Get Ahead In Reviews So He Could Take The Weekend Off, So He Watched Ahead In BSG And Last Night He Watched "Maelstrom" And Cannot Function" Thread.
please discuss the topic at hand below.
Wait, and to clarify, I mean that I am watching episodes in order, stopping, writing the review, and pressing on. So I did watch "A Day In The Life" and "Dirty Hands" and wrote those respective reviews. I AM NOT CHEATING.
SO DON'T YOU JUDGE ME.
Here's a hug. Maelstrom destroyed me. I was so utterly devastated that I don't even remember anymore how I kept watching and whether or not I finally caved and read spoilers or not. The following days are a blur now really. So here I hug you.
And now you know what a lot of the ROT13 talk has been about.
Do you need a hug? Here, have a hug. *hug*
I have not see Maelstrom yet and therefore can’t participate in this rot13 thread of comfort but HAPPY (early) BIRTHDAY!
I have not see Maelstrom yet and therefore can’t participate in this rot13 thread of comfort but HAPPY (early?) BIRTHDAY!
And thus, Maelstrom is the reason that Rot13 was created… so the children could not spoil Mark.
And it cut off the rest of my reply…
Still so unprepared
Happy (early) Birthday!
I saw the tweet saying you had watched it and felt so bad for you *hugs*
MAELSTROM. Functioning after that just isn't an option. 🙁 🙁 🙁 It's the episode that almost made me give up BSG because I JUST COULD NOT ACCEPT IT. *hug* I don't usually comment here but I absolutely love each and every one of these reviews. You remind me of just how awesome it was to watch this show in real time and ride the roller coaster. Hang in there and strap in the rest of the ride because you sir, are still not prepared!
omg thank you forever. PLEASE JOIN THE CONVO! I would love to hear from you <3
Yeah, I quit watching BSG after "Maelstrom". I only started up again when Mark started watching :).
I have no idea what happens in "Maelstrom," but it sounds rough buddy. Hugs?
And Happy (almost) Birthday!
Roslin turns into the moon.
You are my favorite bovine. JSYK.
ahahaha
Woo hoo!!!!!!!! I saw your tweet and was terribly sad and excited for you at the same time.
Oh, ok, I don't feel so bad about cheating then (i secretly watched even more than you though – ain't even mad :D).
But, Maelstrom? Emotionally draining experience if there ever was one.
Happy (soon-to-be) birthday!
[so many hugs] ROT13 for spoilers up to Maelstrom only. Qbrfa’g vg whfg oernx lbhe urneg? Gur onpxfgbel? Naq gura, ng gur irel raq…V whfg pbhyqa’g oryvrir vg. Pna’g oryvrir vg. Xvyy bss Fgneohpx?! FGNEOHPX! V zrna, gung vf bar jnl gb raq gur ybir fdhner, ohg ab!
Nyfb, naq V’z fher lbh’yy or gbyq gubfr, gung fprar jvgu Nqnzn qrfgeblvat gur fuvc? Gbgnyyl vzcebirq. Vg jnf n avtu-cevpryrff nagvdhr gung jnf ba ybna bayl. Sbeghangryl, vg jnf vafherq.
Also, Happy Birthday! It is somehow inconceivable to me that we are currently at the same age. I mean, you write multiple awesome blogs! And you write extremely well and have all kinds of fun adult experiences to talk about. Somehow, in my head, you’re older than me, even though I’ve known you’re in your late twenties.
Oh gods, I’m in my late twenties. When did that happen?
Anyway, I hope you have a fun birthday and weekend off!
Also, Happy Birthday! It is somehow inconceivable to me that we are currently at the same age. I mean, you write multiple awesome blogs! And you write extremely well and have all kinds of fun adult experiences to talk about. Somehow, in my head, you're older than me, even though I've known you're in your late twenties.
I feel this way too. Mark, you're setting the bar for 28-year-old awesomeness way too high.
Oh my, you poor soul, so sorry you had to experience "Maelstrom" right before your birthday weekend, I hope it doesn't keep you crying in a fetal position all weekend. Just keep in mind…that's not even the season finale. YOU. ARE. NOT. PREPARED.
Nope nothing can prepare him. Nothing. Not Maelstrom. Nothing. I can't wait.
A few days ago you used the word "maelstrom" in a post, and I quote,
"I feel like my brain is a maelstrom of confusion and excitement. It’s just all mixed up in there…"
And we all sat here thinking about the irony, shaking our heads and thinking, oh gods, you can't even know.
ditto. except i imagined *~THE SCENE~* with Gibbs from pirates of the carribean yelling "Maaeeellllstrrooooommmm!" and then… well, you know what happens. =(
Happy birthday "young man"!
Maelstrom. 🙁
Infinite hugs for infinite sadness.
This episode is infamous as the one that makes Black Market look good. It's just ludicrous how EVERYONE is forced out of character and become rabid bigots just to further prop up Helo as the one cardboard heroic character in a show where everyone else has at least some shades of grey. It's especially awkward when you have Dualla, a black woman, acting as the self-hating member of the group in question.
Plus, Roberts' motives make no sense at all. Is it really that hard a concept to grasp that you don't have to kill people who refuse to take medicine to get them to not take medicine? The supplies were never in the danger Roberts says they are, so the whole A-plot falls completely flat.
I really hated this episode. I'm sorry but I did. I've not really been able to explain exactly why, maybe it was just too much Helo? I love Helo but it felt like a forced method to make him more heroic. I dunno just never seemed like the BSG we know and love.
Oh, don't feel sorry. A ton of people hate this one. Like Jacob on TWOP said, it's not Battlestar Galactica. It's a shitty random sci-fi show that you never want to see again.
Because it's like, RDM had a point he really wanted to make about racism and oppression, but ended up telling that story in a way that made no sense and made everyone into straw-people of themselves. Like Ryan said, the Evil Plot of Doctor Roberts makes no sense. And while I would like to say that everyone tells Helo to back off because the Evil Plot is ridiculous and no one would do anything that, well, pointless, that's not the case.
Well, part of the problem is that there were supposed to be two sub-plots going on that got cut:
1) Helo's been getting the shit jobs ever since he killed the Cylon prisoners
2) something about the Sagittarons and oppression and racism culminating in…well, we'll never know because it got scrapped
So this episode is the only remaining evidence of those two subplots, which makes it even more out of place and contrary to prior characterization than it otherwise would have been.
(But I still kind of love it because Helo's pretty. Sometimes, I'm shallow that way. And by 'sometimes' I mean 'pretty much always'…)
I assure you, I am not arguing with the Pretty That Is Helo, not in the least. Because SO pretty. So, so SO VERY PRETTY.
Someone please make a gif of Idris saying "HELLO PRETTY" and Helo doing his Pretty Smoulder. I need it.
I dunno…our electronic devices might explode from the combined beautifulness involved in that one gif. (Which is not to say that I wouldn't look at one non-stop for hours if given the chance.)
I am a shameless squealing Helo fangirl and so I pretty much spent the episode going OMG! HE'S ~SO AWESOME!~ but I still have to admit that everything you say is true.
Also, even through my Helo-induced squealing, I distinctly remember being confused by the holes in Robert's dastardly plot. "Okay … so they're still not taking the medicine, which means he's not killing them because they'd use up the medicine … so he's just killing them kind of because?
Not to mention that he killed a bunch of them who CAME TO HIM for medical help, so… he's killing the ones who ARE taking their medicine? In order to demonstrate that medicine is GOOD? I don't get it.
I want to make sure you see this. Please reply here to let me know you've seen this and put the episodes in order on a calendar, so I don't lose sleep over it!
P.S. I think you should update your Mark Watches Suggestions page to reflect the fact that you will watch B5. And if you have trouble finding the extended versions of Battlestar Galactica episodes 4.12, 4.18, and 4.19/4.20 (it's one episode as the extended version) on netflix, filestube is the first place to look. I think the extended first movie is easier to find.
Several episodes of Babylon 5 were aired out of order by the stupid network. You should watch the series like so:
First Movie
Season One – Episodes are out of order. The correct order is 1.01 through 1.13, followed by 1.15 and 1.16, followed by 1.18 through 1.21, followed by 1.14, followed by 1.17, followed by 1.22
Season Two – Episodes are out of order. The correct order is 2.01 through 2.06, followed by 2.08, followed by 2.07, followed by 2.09 through 2.15, followed by 2.17, followed by 2.16, followed by 2.18 through 2.22
Season Three – Episode order is correct.
Episodes 4.01 through 4.08 of Season Four
Third Movie
Episodes 4.09 through 4.22 of Season Four
Second Movie (this placement reflects airing order rather than chronology, but you wouldn’t want to see it chronologically)
Season Five – One episode is out of order. The correct order is 5.01 through 5.04, followed by 5.08, followed by 5.05 through 5.07, followed by 5.09 through 5.22.
Fourth Movie
First Special Event that could have been picked up for more episodes but wasn't
Fifth Movie
Crusade, the spin-off series – Episodes are out of order. The correct order is 1.01 and 1.02, followed by 1.06, followed by 1.08, followed by 1.10 and 1.11, followed by 1.09, followed by 1.12 and 1.13, followed by 1.04 and 1.05, followed by 1.03, followed by 1.07
Second Special Event that could have been picked up for more episodes but wasn't
Enjoy!
And be sure to skip the opening credits on the first two episodes of season two. The idiots put the standard credits sequence on those episodes, rather than the specialized one created for them to hide a major plot twist.
Yeah. There are versions of those two episodes' credits with and without the twist covered up, and one can't tell which without seeing the credits of course.
Thanks for making sure he has this. The last thing we want to have happen is for Mark to either watch it out of order or to spoil himself trying to figure out the right order.
I know the excitement of yay Mark confirmed this show I love!, but B5 will at least come after Buffy so it'll be months before this list is relevant. (Quick math: 144 episodes of Buffy/5 episodes per week= ~29 weeks. That's over half a year (roughly 7 months) of Buffy reviews, and that presumes no substitute Monday reviews or breaks. Admittedly it also presumes no extra reviews like combining two-parters or something.)
What I'm saying is that this is cool of you to type out, but B5 is a ways away and this seems kind of premature to post. I think Mark tends to confirm his big projects ahead of time, so you'll have forewarning for when B5 should start. I imagine it'd be a good idea to bring this up again later.
Well I like to get these things out of the way sooner than later (it was kind of consuming my thoughts – that happens to me), and he can write it down somewhere ahead of time (and please tell me!). If he loses it, he can ask me for it again. So all is well and good.
SEVEN MONTHS OF BUFFY. MARK WILL BE WATCHING MY FAVORITE SHOW OF ALL TIME FOR SEVEN MONTHS. I AM SO EXCITED FOR THIS YOU HAVE NO IDEA. *swoons*
"The Woman King" is widely hated in fandom, but personally I found the mystery riveting.
These characters look like the same ones we've been watching for two and (roughly) a half season but they're acting like totally different people. Except for Helo and possibly Athena everyone is so out of character to make the story work that it's almost painful.
It is nice to see the crew hanging out in the bar together though. Everyone's joking and being friendly and shooting each other death glares (I see you there Starbuck rolling your eyes at Dee).
Just when you think the Agathons couldn't be any cuter than they already were:
<img src="http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt2lctLIjP1qexngao1_500.jpg"/>
They gave their daughter a mobile with Vipers and a Raptor. That's where mommy and daddy work! TOO CUTE! although I have to wonder if they've hijacked some of the war room models to make it.
Fleet arts and crafts night strikes again!
Didn't we decide that Gaeta makes the models in his spare time or something?
But yes, that is the cutest thing to have ever cuted. I would like one for my hypothetical child.
I never noticed that… that explains what they were up to in the last episode. Also… sooooooo cute. I want some, I don't even have a kid, they can hang above my bed.
Helo and Athena would never hijack the official war room models! That would be wrong, and also they're too big to make a good mobile. The war-room models as shown back in Hand of God appear to be built on about the lionel 1:48 scale, while the mobile looks to be more in line with the S-scale 1:64 or possibly the british P4 1:76 model ratios and I need to spend less time with my train set now, kay?
No, I think those models were obviously what they were going to sell in the gift shop that was in place in the miniseries.
There's something I like about this episode, I just can't put my finger on it…
<img src="http://i54.tinypic.com/x10cn8.gif" alt="Helo sleeps in bed shirtless">
Much as I'd like to.
But (I would put seriously, but I was being deadly serious) I do like this episode. Ok the 'everyone except Helo is suddenly really prejudiced' angle is a little forced but I like the idea of both exploring the problems of a disease spreading within the fleet and of looking at the general population of the fleet and how they're coping with being cramped together, in a way it's not a surprise that old resentments and prejudices arise in those situations – it's much easier to blame someone else for your problems, especially if they're a group of people that aren't liked very much and you're already prejudiced against. (BTW, I also totally thought the title meant something different, and in fact still do whenever I've not seen the series for a while)
“I keep doing it. You know, I keep doing it, I keep ending up on the wrong side of everything. You know, maybe Tigh's right. Maybe I want it that way. What if I'm flying a desk not because I'm good at it, not because I'm right guy for the job, but because it's the right punishment for the guy who crosses the line, and everybody knows it? Maybe I belong in Dogville.”
And I love Helo's storyline. Carrying on from 'A Measure of Salvation' we see the fallout from Helo's actions, although not directly punished, have left him unpopular and have seen him assigned out of the CIC and running Dogsville which seems to be a place no-one wants to be. But of course Helo being Helo he does his job well (sidebar, I do kinda love Sharon saying it's ok to hate your job) and follows his morals to the truth in a difficult situation where everyone else seems to have turned against him and he is even doubting himself. Even Sharon. I don't blame her for anything she says here but I agree with Helo when he says, 'This has nothing to do with you! Okay? You think that's who I am? That's what I've become, that's my defining characteristic? The guy married to a Cylon?' He is more than that. In AMoS we saw him make the decision to kill the Cylons independent of Sharon, actually against her wishes, but to the rest of the crew even knowing that Sharon wasn't on Galactica at the time it must have seemed like it was a decision influenced by or even asked for by Sharon just as many of his decisions over the last couple of years must have seemed but here he is proving that his decisions are his own and a result of his own feelings and beliefs. And in doing so wins back the respect of Tigh, Cottle and Adama. Big love, any storyline that revolves around Helo gets points in my book.
“So you do give a frak what your friends think about you! Good for you!”
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/vcussy.gif" alt="Helo punches Tigh">
Helo punching Tigh is pretty darn satisfying. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Tigh but every time I brings up how much he suffered on New Caprica which means he's better than everyone, his opinion is worth more and can say whatever he likes, usually about Sharon, I grit my teeth. “You'd better have the Doc take a look at that hand” was delivered pitch perfect though.
Now for a gif of conflicting emotions…
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/10cox3d.gif" alt="Helo and Sharon are joined by the other pilots who greet Sharon happily">
Helo is not a cool kid anymore, he has to go do stupid work and gets teased and stuff 🙁
OTOH…. OMG look at them greeting Athena and that little touch from Starbuck, she is truly part of the crew I have so many ~feelings~ The Fighting Agathons and Starbuck Show is still on!
I swear I spent the first five minutes of this episode just drooling over Helo. Mmmm, shirtless Helo with low trousers.
So many upvotes for the gifs (hey, I'm shallow.)
Helo has now punched Lee and Tigh. It's like he's acting out my will (oh no, don't become a self-insert, Helo!)
I watched the week's episodes in a row over a week ago so I don't even remember any of this. Totally appreciating these!
Lee is half-clothed (in comparison)!
One more thing to dislike is that the episode is particularly heavy on the previous-LIES. They just come off as a particularly desperate attempt to make things make some kind of sense.
Here are my thoughts while watching this episode:
-Not even kidding, as soon as I saw the Previously On… was focusing on Helo, I started singing a lovely little tune. It went like this: Heeeee-lo, I love you, Hee-lo, oh, yes I doooo. It's very impressive, I know, but it also accurately describes my emotions about this character. I'm actually jealous that everybody in this universe gets to live a life where Helo exists. If anything happens to him, I don't think I'll be able to forgive this show.
-HELO'S NOT WEARING A SHIRT OMG WHY DID IT TAKE UNTIL SEASON 3 FOR THIS TO HAPPEN?!?!?!?!
-Why is everybody else acting so differently than they usually do? *Helo walks by* Oooh, arms….
-Head!Baltar is back! Yesssss, he is awesome. And I definitely prefer seeing a version of Baltar's face without the Jesus beard.
-How tall is Tahmoh Penikett and what else has he been in??? Curses, can't look it up on IMDb because I know me, I'll spoil myself about what his last episode is.
-Helo, Athena, and Hera make a beautiful family
Penikett had a large role in Joss Whedon's show Dollhouse.
-Helo, Athena, and Hera make a beautiful family
They really do. I love that we get to see them actually being a family this episode. The scene where Hera has to be immunised is particularly sweet, Athena trying to distract her with the toy and Helo kissing her before they leave, just <3
I agree with all of your Helo points. And I fell in love with Tahmoh Penikett while watching Dollhouse, so you should do that. He's like 6'2-3, so ~perfect~.
Tahmoh's 6'4" IIRC. And in addition to Dollhouse, pre-BSG he worked on Canadian shows, Cold Squad and Whistler. And he was recently in the season finale of Haven.
and yes, I can't hate any episode that has Helo half-naked. yum.
This is my trying to be positive comment.
One thing about Helo's character I enjoy is that his strength is essentially empathy. His perspective on matters tend to be much more black and white than others, and that's very much linked to him behaving compassionately and helping save the people others aren't giving a chance (and I totally count Cylons as people). Helo listens and cares and simply understands people.
The reason I appreciate this is because Helo is a male character given predominantly female-coded strengths, and you don't see that too often. Had the role Helo plays in this episode gone to a female character, I'd be rolling my eyes hard at the ~female intuition~ and ~womanly compassion~, so I'm not only glad that female character trope was avoided, but also that this is something of a gender role subversion, which I generally tend to like and appreciate.
So I think it's pretty cool that the character who has perhaps the greatest amount of compassion and emotional intelligence is male. It's more common to see female characters embodying male-coded traits than for male characters to embody female-coded traits (which is a whole other conversation unto itself), so Helo's character is something of a breath of fresh air to me.
(Too bad the episode he "stars" in otherwise sucks. And there ends my positivity. Eh, I tried.)
The reason I appreciate this is because Helo is a male character given predominantly female-coded strengths, and you don't see that too often. Had the role Helo plays in this episode gone to a female character, I'd be rolling my eyes hard at the ~female intuition~ and ~womanly compassion~, so I'm not only glad that female character trope was avoided, but also that this is something of a gender role subversion, which I generally tend to like and appreciate.
That's interesting and I've never looked at this episode or Helo's character from that perspective before. I think this show does a good job with gender roles in general, making the women pilots completely equal to the men and giving Starbuck a lot of traditionally male-coded qualities, etc. Sometimes they slip up but most of the time they're pretty good about it.
Thanks for this observation!
I automatically assumed the Saggitarons' accusations were correct, since Bruce Davison always does such a good job playing the evil bastard who can put on an innocuous face when he wants to.
V pna'g jnvg hagvy Znex trgf gb gur cneg jurer Onygne frrf Urnq Onygne. Ur'f whfg tbvat gb pbzcyrgryl ybfr uvf fuvg.
Oh, god the music in the scene you're rot13ing about /vf tbvat gb or/ so awesome and I love Bear McCreary's work so much and aaaahhhhh!
Bruce Davison is a great Hey It's That Guy. He was That Guy on Lost, Psych, Criminal Minds, and in the X-Men movies, among many others.
Even though I think some people were OOC, I liked this episode over all. Some characters have expressed anti-Sagittaron feelings in the past (even a Sagitarron like Dee amongst them), but it seemed like the hatred was turned up to make Helo even more of a hero. Not that I mind, it just didn't feel realistic for Helo to be so alone in this fight (I'd have thought Adama would be more understanding, and Roslin was nowhere to be found.) However, systemic racism is held up by people who don't think they're racist, and may not express any racism; they just support the status quo, so it was realistic from that standpoint. And, though this is a better example of classism, given that the idea of uninsured people dying because they can't afford care was cheered at a Republican debate last month, I think this episode is incredibly relevant to the US on multiple levels. Deeming broad groups of people unworthy of life isn't an alien idea at all, and I'm glad BSG looked at it.
One other small problem I had was that I thought Cottle was supposed to be the only doctor around (causing problems when Adama got shot) and then this guy just shows up. Still, I sort of appreciate his Harry Limesque moment at the end (worms, ants, whatever.)
I got the impression that Roslin was sitting in that room with Tory for the entirety of however long this episode is, watching Caprica kiss Head!Baltar. She says she's seen her do that before…
Now I have an image of her sitting there for DAYS, sending for popcorn every once in a while. An epidemic on the ship can't hold a flame to Caprica.
I guess I'm in the minority that I didn't find it all that OOC? Helo's been held up as the boring good guy for a while and uh he basically committed treason when he interfered to prevent them from infecting the resurrection ship, so he's got no prob being at odds with everyone.
We didn't know all that much about what anybody thought of Sagitarrons and uh, I really don't see what reason we have to think that everyone on the ship is a perfect liberal. And people will bring up Dualla but again I see people have opinions like that about their own people IRL all the time so I didn't find it all THAT weird.
They were talking about killing off a prisoner ship in the first season, but a doctor that snaps and apts himself head of the eugenics committee is totally impossible?
Yeah everything was pretty black and white and it was totes cheesy but I don't really see it as major character assassination.
I didn't think that Helo was OOC, but Adama was oddly resistant to what he was saying, and I've never seen Tyrol go off like that. He's usually pretty reserved and reacting to other people mouthing off. I actually think that Dee is one of the consistent characters since it's in line with her what she said during "Bastille Day." I don't think they have to be perfect liberals, either, it just seemed like some of the characters were much more bluntly resistant just so that Helo could stand alone. I thought it was odd, but not character-ruining; I like this episode, so it's not a big deal to me.
And I'm sorry if it came across that I thought that Dr. Robert was unrealistic, because I don't feel that way (and I don't think I wrote anything to that effect.) I actually liked that aspect of his character, and the reference to The Third Man (or at least what I thought was a reference) during his defense at the end. I just don't know where the hell he appeared from in the fleet.
Oh yeah, I was kind of responding to a compilation of what everybody had said in my head instead of writing the same thing 15 times, sorry I didn't think you implied that about the doctor at all. But the idea that his actions were not logical wasn't a problem for me as some other people had said.
I totes agree that it was really polarizing with Helo on one end and then everybody else, it was obviously contrived that way to make him the hero, which isn't really anything new wrt how Helo's treated on the show. But for me it never really got to the point where I thought "huh _______ would never say that."
Also I kind of thought Adama was giving him the shit bureacratic job as punishment and would be less interested in listening to him than usual.
Tyrol did go off on Helo about Sharon/Athena back in season 2 before they both went to prison over saving her, but that was a really specific sitch so it's probably not the best example.
For what it's worthy, I don't like the episode, and actually my main reason why is that the racism established in S1 seems to come up only when the writers want to make a big point of it rather than more naturally including it in little potentially overlooked moments, as is truer to real life.
"We didn't know all that much about what anybody thought of Sagitarrons"
This is key for me. Why don't we know that much about what people thought of about the Sagittarons? Racism is insidious and crops up in constant blips, but instead we just have this huge burst of eugenics.
Think of all the space that could be used to world-build the class and race issues of this universe if only they cut out all the love triangle stuff…
Basically, we know how pervasive and ingrained discrimination can be, so why don't we see more of Dee struggling against people having negative expectations of her? Did people see her with Billy and Lee and think typical Sagittaron? Do people think she's trying to marry up by marrying Lee Adama? What have all the other Sagittarons been up to and how have they been faring? Did neither Roslin nor Baltar try to win over specific groups of marginalized voters and tailor their campaigns in that manner? Do the Capricans say unthinking things that exhibit a privileged mentality? Wouldn't it be cool to see a character, Dee or otherwise, point out that so many of the higher ups on Galactica are Capricans? That the 3 different presidents we've seen have been Capricans?
There are so many times when these issues could have been brought up in earlier episodes, but instead there's essentially one ~very special episode~ about racism since that bit it was established in with Tom Zarek in S1.
This episode makes me wish for what could have been, and I find what we got such a let down.
I think we are pretty much on the same page!
I agree with everything. I think this episode depicted some things about racism way more accurately than any previous attempts did, but it's still a very special BSG and it's actually about Helo which is why I will not call it good by any means.
I have a relevant point that is alas spoilery, so I'll wait til later to talk about it.
And I do dislike Black Market more, in any case, so I agree with you there too.
Well I hope you remember it whenever we get there!
For what it's worthy, I don't like the episode, and actually my main reason why is that the racism established in S1 seems to come up only when the writers want to make a big point of it rather than more naturally including it in little potentially overlooked moments, as is truer to real life.
This. That's why I think this show does way better in portraying racism by using the Cylons, because they actually ARE discriminated against all the time in little ways, like people ostracizing Helo because he married one. This episode feels like a giant tangent that doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the show.
For every person who wasn't there in the beginning and pops up now, I just retcon in my head that they were on Pegasus. Solves everything.
At the very start I remember thinking wouldn't it be cool if the Sagitarons turned out to be right about everything, and, well, they were.
This episode: I get it. I mean I totally get being screwed over and you usually will never totally know if the perpetrator was just an asshole or incompetent or if they were actually a total bigot and it sucks.
One more thing though:
We have a climate of officers, admirals, and other people in a position of power who all believe it is entirely rational and acceptable to dismiss the concerns of a whole group of people simply because of their beliefs and where they used to live. It’s never vocalized that way, but that’s the undercurrent here: these people are weird and not advanced and not like us at all. Why should we care?
I think it's also important that a lot of the time "their culture" is not just a matter of "it's our traditions/it's always been this way" but it's also a direct product of being discriminated against. For the Sagitarrons this most likely isn't the first time something like that has happened to them and being really defensive about tradition comes out of bad experiences with being exploited; it's a means to keep out outsiders who do harm, basically.
I don't know if this was something that was only really obvious to me but it's something that happens all the time IRL and just gets mistaken as people being superstitious or xenophobic.
That said: I saw a bunch of comments elsewhere from people that didn't love this episode, and as much as I think it totally nails the racism stuff, I can totally understand why since it's pretty 1-note.
edit: you guys prefer black market? really?
Rotten tomato/rotten tomahto
Hey I'm not saying this one is good but there is no comparison to that abombination.
I dunno. I guess I've just tried to wipe both of these from my memory banks.
I'm not a huge fan of this episode, but the idea that Black Market was better kind of boggles me. I rewatched The Woman King so as to follow this, for instance, whereas I stubbornly insist Black Market didn't happen and never rewatch. (And sometimes that leads me to forget certain plot issues BUT WHATEVER.)
Some of that preference for BM is due to the timing – people were a lot more ready to hate by this point, what with the flaming ship-quadralellagon of doom that was going on through season 3 to this point. A little bit of it's probably due to the fact that BM had such awesome music. Me, I figure there's gonna be an episode per full season with poor characterization, and as such things go, this one's not all that heinous. Sure, the willful elevation of supporting cast and resultant attacks on the characters of main cast characters doesn't play that well, but hey, it's nowhere near as stinking a turd as BM was. (see what I did there? It's a poop joke! I'm so clever…)
I adore silly puns.
That actually makes sense. And yeah, I kind of take it as a given that not everything can be stellar, so I guess it helps my sensibilities not being offended. I'd never call this episode great, but it didn't actively piss me off.
I think what pissed me off so to speak was that it didn't make sense in the whole trajectory of the season. It felt like a waste of time that could have been used get us to the finale faster. And I do remember that despite critical acclaim the ratings were not very good and I was worried that any that any misstep like BM could spell doom for the renewal for the next season.
Yeah, I know my comment makes me seem like I love this ep but I was just able to appreciate certain things in it.
I guess I've also probably been influenced by watching WAY TOO MUCH tv as a kid and a lot of it was stuff of this calibre (and a lot more of it was probably way way worse in quality.) So when I get to one of those random meh epsisodes I don't get really pissed about it. And I dunno, I think season 1 had a lot more episodes that were similar to this one in terms of randomness and preachiness, so I figured they would have to come up every season, sooner or later. I am now prepared for the meh, basically, so it was easier for me to appreciate things that I liked.
Like I said, I get what they wanted to do and I also get why people hate it and that's all good. Doesn't change my feelings about Black Market and Bastille Day, though.
I can see that.
While I really enjoyed s1 , it was s2 and the Pegasus arc that totally hooked me. I'd never seen anything so brave and scary and so "OMG they went there " with such amazing music and acting in so long on TV, much less sci-fi, I was simply floored by it's brilliance and it's ability to affect me so viscerally(much like Mark now).
I just couldn't understand why no one saw what I saw in the show. It set the bar so high, that when Woman King rolled around I was scared it was regressing and that would be the end of the brilliance. But thankfully Maelstrom happened and all was well again in my BSG universe.
Oh man I'm trying not to raise my expectations super high for Maelstrom, whenever it is I get there.
The Pegasus Arc is definitely one of my favourite parts of the entire run of the show so far, along with the miniseries and the New Caprica stuff. It definitely was when the series took a step up.
Holy shit I had no idea that people didn't like this.
From the perspective of someone who is seeing these day-to-day, I didn't pick up on any of these inconsistencies or character changes at all. OMG PERSPECTIVE I LOVE YOU
I'm sure it has to do with watching consecutively as you have and us watching with a week in between, if not months, to digest an episode. And saying people didn't like the episode is putting it mildly. I know hate is a strong word but is completely apt for how vilified this episode was at the time it aired.
From my experiences with Doctor Who, waiting a week for a crappy episode definitely sticks in my craw in a way that it doesn't when I'm marathoning.
Agreed. I'm a TW fan. I DVR'd all of season 4. I find that when I watch it back to back it seems much better than with a week in between. Such a strange phenomenon.
I had a feeling you'd like it due to the non-fandom exposure. I didn't realize you'd make such an excellent review! (post-racial America my eye. we may have made good progress but there is a lot more to be done)
Huh. I have no memory of this episode– I think it's the only one I've never seen. I think I was sick/drunk the day it aired and fell asleep before it aired. The next day when I saw all the hate about it, I never bothered to watch it. Maybe I should give it another shot…
I think everyone has said already why this episode isn't my favourite so I won't make some ~huge long post~ about it, but just throw in my two cents.
I think that the main reason it irked me was that the whole purpose of the episode seemed to be to set Helo up as the 'moral compass' of the show. Which…he is already? I mean, we've already seen he often acts as the voice of reason and compassion, making sure even the unpopular viewpoints are heard.
We don't NEED a whole episode making the rest of the cast complete assholes just to make Helo look better. We already love him. The whole thing just felt completely redundant.
I'd have to say the absolute worst 'moral compass' moment of the episode was when Adama actually said that Helo was a 'voice in the wilderness.' I adore Helo (which is why I will never hate this episode), but really? That's a bit much there.
I don't really have any comment on the episode itself (except that I thought it was kind of strange how dismissive everyone was of Helo, I mean, you guys could at least *investigate*, but Mark you made some good points about that), but anyway, I just had to comment in a forum of people who would ~understand~ my pain. I was on TVTropes earlier (dear god whyyyy) and I accidentally spoiled myself for 2 of the final five 🙁
Worst. internet. experience. ever. EVER.
Oh darling, that sucks. Here, have a hug. ::hug::
Oh man, I'm always doing that, TVTropes is such an awesome and addictive website that I'm always half-way through reading something then realise 'hey, I've not seen that yet!'
But yes, many internet *hugs*
Thanks for all the hugs 🙂
I blame many of this episode's weaknesses to Michael Angeli's writing to be honest. I'm sure this would've been better in more capable hands.
I agree. Angeli is, after all, the writer who gave Helo the line about the Cylons trying to live with the humans on New Caprica.
I don't "hate" this episode, I just find it boring and pointless so didn't bother to rewatch it on my current marathon. This is the weak stretch of season 3 where they were obviously trying to fill the episode quota without blowing out the budget and the reason why it drops just behind S2 for me overall.
So, just for interest, I did listen to the commentary on this ep yesterday, and I think the root of why it kinda sucks is that the two things that would sort of make it make sense were cut.
First of all, Helo had been given all the crappy jobs for months, as a result of his killing the sick Cylon prisoners. In reaction to that he was constantly looking for something to win him back into Adama's favor and kept bringing Adama all these things he'd discovered, to the point that he was driving Adama crazy by trying to be the ship's hero. So when Adama dismissed his concerns, he was dismissing just the latest in a long line of things Helo had tried to bring to Adama's attention and which were blown out of proportion. So that explains some of Adama's seemingly out of character actions.
Secondly, there was going to be a longer subplot about the Sagitarons that was going to run the rest of the season, but they cut that, so they cut some previous mentions of the situation with them and people's attitudes towards them. So, essentially, the story had no reason to exist, since it was going to ultimately build to something, but didn't. Also, I believe there would have been flashbacks to stories about the Sagitarons on New Caprica that may have helped explain Dr. Robert's actions a bit.
So basically, they should have just scrapped the whole episode, but they probably didn't have time to write something different, so they put this together.
So then, people knew he'd killed the prisoners? Another one for the previous-LIES, I guess.
Please don't use "crazy" on this site.
People do forget that Tom Zarek was from Sagitarus, and that was at the root of his political crimes/terrorism. It's almost a throw away point way back near the beginning of the series, when Dee and Billy discuss it, and Billy talks about the oppression of the Sagitarons, and Dee puts him down by pointing out she is one.
Still, episode sucked.
This is one of those famous ~hated episodes, but I always liked it. As such, I'm happy that you liked it because it makes me feel like less of a weirdo.
Add me to the "worst. episode. ever." list. Hell, even Ron Moore admits they fucked up.
The only good thing about this episode was Helo. Fortunately, Helo was the star of the show. But seriously, BSG, every time you do a “very special episode looking into other parts of the BSG ‘verse”, you make me want to throw a revolution and start society over again. Because it all sucks unless you’re in the military. And, frankly, it’s not that awesome even then.
Ah, this episode! "Everyone Hates Helo (except Sharon)" . 😀
I just love Tigh's deep affection for the villain-of-the-day. And Cottle's spastic yelling and uniform-wearing (serious?)
"We don't believe in medicine." I respect this up to a point. I respect anything you do with your OWN body so long as it doesn't harm others around you (such as smoking in public or driving drunk, etc). But your kids? No. I don't believe you get to make that decision for your kids. I do believe certain things should be optional, but when it comes to life and death, I don't think you get to say that the Gods decided your kids should die now or something. There have been a couple of actual cases in the news about kids dying because their parents believed prayer alone would save them.
Yeah, it's complicated where the line should be drawn. If I have a cold, should I stay home from work? Most people would say going to work with a cold is no big deal. But if you work with the public (and I do), you might come in contact with people to whom a cold IS a big deal. Immunocompromised, elderly, young children, etc. Or even people who have no paid sick days and can't afford to take any time off work. I DO have paid time off, but my boss still guilt-trips me for calling in sick, so I hate to do it. *shrug*
But discriminating against people with contagious diseases, saying they can't go certain places, can be a really horrible way of marginalizing people. We've seen it with AIDS, and the old-school version is leprosy. (There's a great moment in "The Motorcycle Diaries" when Che and the other dude go to a leper colony to practice medicine, and they insist on not wearing gloves, because they know they're not going to catch leprosy from the patients–it's just common practice to wear gloves because, you know, they're lepers and touching lepers is bad. I really like that moment because the younger doctors realize that the only reason for the gloves is social stigma, and make a point of refusing them. Anyway, that's about all I remember about that movie except for the chubby guy having sexy feelings about dolphins or something.)
Anyway, I hate this episode. I hate the blonde doctor guy. Also, you can't fully explore a subculture that distrusts medicine when THE DOCTOR IS POISONING THEM.
Also, unless you're writing about an actual female monarch, "The Woman King" is an awful title. I am just saying. Also it gets the Iron & Wine song stuck in my head forever and that's one of my least favorites by them. (Although it's nowhere near as cringe-inducing as "Fever Dream," which in the chorus includes babies, flowers, and god's love. SAM BEAM YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS. Ahem.)
No, Helo, "where do you suggest we send them" is not the answer. The answer is "they have as much a right to be here as you do."
"Get your shirt off, would you?" Yes plz Helo
"Dying, you know? It just seems so senseless." SCINTILLATING DIALOGUE, WRITERS.
Hey, it's Head Baltar! Missed you, Head Baltar!
LOL they're watching Six make out with an invisible Baltar. Good thing nobody had a camera on Baltar in season one.
Helo and Starbuck can now bond over their Tigh-punching ways. And we can see more of them being awesome BFFs.
In general, I think this show explores racism much better when it does it metaphorically–through interactions between humans and Cylons. This episode feels like a Very Special Episode, in contrast to episodes that show the Cylons being treated as second-class citizens (or worse), such as the one with the Cylon virus where Sharon isn't tested as fast as the humans are. Moments like that are much more nuanced and interesting than the club that this episode beats over our head with "racism is bad" written on it.
Like, a doctor is KILLING SAGITTARONS. Poisoning them! That's just evil–a doctor killing ANYONE is wrong, and when the higher-ups realize that, they do something about it. If the episode was mainly about communication problems because the doctor doesn't understand their culture, or the lack of respect for their culture among the fleet, or the doctor treating their illnesses as lower-priority because of who they are, or simply the dilemma of how to treat people who don't want your treatment, the morality would have been much less black-and-white and therefore more interesting. Racism that is largely ignored or condoned by the privileged is way more difficult to combat, and more difficult to portray, than this mess of an episode. The writers are trying to make this episode more like that, but they fall WAY short of their goal. BLARG. ALSO THE DIALOGUE IS COMPLETE CRAP. Whatever.
I also don't for a second believe that Athena would insinuate that Helo LISTENING to the Sags (gasp) is a bad thing. Ugh. Stop making my favorite character less awesome, show.