In the third Doctor Who Christmas special, the final events of the end of series three are put into context as the Doctor boards the Titanic to discover a disastrous plot to destroy planet earth. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
Well, that was bleak, wasn’t it? Before I dive into “Voyage of the Damned,” I wanted to briefly talk about the Children in Need special, “Time Crash.” I am so wonderfully glad that not a single one of you spoiled the surprise of the mini-episode to me because it made it so much more enjoyable.
THE FIFTH DOCTOR! AND THE TENTH DOCTOR! THE SPRIG OF CELERY! I think it may have meant more to me if I had seen more of the Fifth Doctor, but STILL. What worked best was the meta-commentary written for David Tennant. “You were my Doctor,” he said to Peter Davison. And we knew that it meant that this was role was special to him, that Tennant was getting the immense privilege to play a character he’d grown up watching. And that, my friends, is goddamn beautiful.
All right, onwards with “Voyage of the Damned”! Of course, my first question for this Christmas special was HOW ON EARTH COULD THE TITANIC CRASH INTO THE TARDIS THAT SEEMS LIKE A BIG THING TO HAPPEN. I wondered if this episode would suggest that the Titanic crashed because it hit the TARDIS, not an iceberg, but then…shit started getting really weird.
Why are there robots on the Titanic? WHY ARE THERE ROBOTS ON THE TITANIC?
And Russell T Davies answers, “Hahaha, FUCK YOU THIS IS A SPACESHIP I AM THE BEST EVER” and then we high five each other in space and break the time-space continuum and finally, finally, he will write a scene into one of these episodes in which the earth opens up and eats the villain.
A boy can dream. Don’t you ever take that away from me.
There are a couple wonderful little narratives that all contribute to the main plot; we learn that the Titanic is an interstellar cruiser that is orbiting earth to observe a “primitive” culture. In this case, it’s Christmas. The subtext here is that a bunch of snooty, rich assholes are treating the earth like it’s a zoo, and this is all run by the gold-toothed Max Capricorn. I imagine a lot of this man’s work is to make a mockery or a joke out of “exotic” people in order to make money. But we’ll get to Max later.
I’m not sure we’ve seen an episode yet that is framed around the disaster trope and I think, ultimately, that this particularly story does a lot of things really, really well. Using the ship as the set creates an air of hopeless claustrophobia, especially the scenes where the survivors have to climb through debris and rubble. That first asteroid hit actually spins the ship around and normally, shaky camera scenes always seem so contrived and fake, but the moment was filmed so realistically.
The twist that Davies provides here is that it’s not just about a ship that’s going to “sink” into the earth, but the robot Hosts are also chasing them. So it’s literally an alien disaster movie all shoved into one. I dig that.
There’s also a slight twist on the idea that in stressful, life-or-death situations, people turn into righteous fools. We’ve seen it time and time again in these type of movies: as air begins to run out or the infection spread, everyone turns against each other. It’s hard to do something original in this vein and it’s even harder to make it realistic. I’m not saying that this particular episode of Doctor Who eclipsed all written scripts and pulled off a masterpiece, but they did one thing just a bit different than I expected: Rickston Slade.
I lost count of how many times I wished for the whole ship to blow up just to kill Rickston Slade. Calling him despicable is an understatement. That fat-hating waste of space is the worst of the worst, someone willingly dismissive of everyone who doesn’t look like him or act like him or have as much money as him. He is THE MAN. He is literally The Man. And I know there had to be a ton of you who felt the same way: THIS DUDE IS GOING TO GET FUCKED UP. He has to! He’s awful and miserable and a fuckface shitbag.
And Russell T Davies says, “Hey, wouldn’t it be super fucked up if a ton of people die, three of them while sacrificing themselves, and this smarmy shit actually makes money off of this tragedy??” And then God reached down and gave him the highest of high fives and then Russell T Davies was inspired by this turn and thought, “Hey, why don’t I add just one line spoken by Mr. Copper about how we, as an audience, want the worst fates to befall on those we dislike the most?” And that’s when God and Jesus both high fived Russell T Davies and all was well in the world.
Let’s talk about how bleak and depressing this is, especially for a Christmas special. No one spoiled Kylie Minogue’s appearance (THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT!) and hell, there was even a moment that I truly believed that she might be the Doctor’s newest companion for series 4. (I WAS WRONG OMG I AM EXCITED FOR WHO IT IS GOING TO BE THOUGH OMG OMG OMG.) The Christmas specials so far generally involve a really small body count and this episode was pretty much the complete opposite. First of all, I think that, at the end of everything, FOUR PEOPLE SURVIVE. And that’s if you count the Doctor. If not, then it’s just Alonso, Rickston, and Mr. Copper. OUT OF HUNDREDS, POSSIBLY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. what. On top of that, Morvin accidentally falls into the engines and then his wife, Foon, follows suit clutching one of the Hosts that is trying to kill the survivors. what!!! But they were so awesome and hilarious the world is so unfair
I think the final confrontation between Max Capricorn and the Doctor is not nearly as powerful as the rest of the episode. It seemed obvious to me that Astrid was going to get involved in some way and get herself killed. Max Capricorn himself reminded me so much of Dr. Evil that I was distracted. That was basically Dr. Evil, right? (Holy god, I feel so old. Those movies are like a billion years old. why) I liked that the entire thing was motivated by selfish greed. There’s a parallel between Max, who dies for his transgression, and Rickston, who benefits from his actions. It’s an ugly truth, but sometimes the most awful people are spared and never have to face their actions. I mean, we generally call that “privilege” around these parts, but Rickston is just flat-out the worst thing ever.
Earth, please open up soon. Eat all the villains, please.
THOUGHTS
- I thought Kylie Minogue did a good job! It wasn’t the greatest performance ever in the history of acting, but I liked her character a lot. Apparently people hated it? They probably didn’t like…fun and happiness. Right?
- Oh my god, the fake Queen was HILARIOUS. She was in her bath robe! So cute!
- I like that this episode essentially pokes fun at itself. London isn’t abandoned because of some otherworldly conspiracy. The residents are just sick of alien invasions every year. Oh god, SO AWESOME.
- Bannakaffalatta is a BAMF. I loved the commentary about the rights of cyborgs and the ongoing marriage joke between him and Astrid.
- Ok, there were a lot of really cheesy things in this episode. The Doctor being flown upwards by the Hosts. Astrid being turned into atoms that looked the special effects from classic Who.
- Mr. Copper’s character probably had the most depth out of anyone, what with his fake teaching credentials and how he transforms over the course of the episode. It made me very happy how he ended up.
- “I’m the Doctor. I’m a Time Lord. I’m from the planet Gallifrey in the Constellation of Kasterbourous. I’m 903 years old and I’m the man who is gonna save your lives and all 6 billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?” ILU DOCTOR
- “Take me to your leader. I’ve always wanted to say that!”
- “This Christmas thing? What’s it about?” “Long story. I should know. I was there. I got the last room.” OMG HE MENTIONED JESUS. Didn’t I ask if he did this like…at the very beginning?
- “But if you could choose, Doctor, if you could decide who lives and who decides…that would make you a monster.”
- “Allons-y, Alonso!”
- All in all, I liked this special. It was fun. Tomorrow, “The Caves of Androzani” will go up! EXCITE!
I'm currently gifing Time Crash, but I'll give Voyage of the Damned, if you want. 😀
Okay, some Time Crash gifs! (Which I've been meaning to do for ages, and finally did today. Yay, Mark Watches is getting me to do things I've wanted to! Whoo!) (Also? Hooray for threaded and folded comments.)
What? x 3
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Another what?
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Someone's impressed with himself.
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Wiggle!
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This has to be a weird moment in any actor's life.
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No quite the Master's drumbeat.
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For those who enjoy the Doctor and glasses
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Maybe for people who inadvertently post spoilers?
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A solo high five
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I love this farewell; there's something kind of magical about it.
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That's more than a gif per minute of show. Either I have an inordinate amount of affection for Time Crash, too much time on my hands, or it's just a really great 8 minutes of television. Perhaps some combination of the three. 😀
Those are gorgeous!
Time Crash is wonderful. I love it to pieces.
YOU ARE A BEAUTIFUL PERSON AND NOTHING HURTS.
It was SO WEIRD to watch The Five Doctors well after seeing Time Crash. FIVE YOU ARE A BABY YOU ARE SO YOUNG. AND YOU HAVE HAIR.
I've been watching Five's era all the way through and it's even weirder when he shows up with a haircut in "Warriors of the Deep."
I've been doing the same, to try and catch up for "Caves." Ah, "Warriors of the Deep." The Myrka may be my favorite Rubber Suit Monster of all time. XP
Not the greatest episode but i think you have to take the christmas specials as one offs that most people can enjoy. I don't know how it is in the US but in the UK getting a christmas day special is a big deal, they usually have really high ratings so you have to cater for people who aren't fans of the show.
I'm pretty sure that Voyage of the Damned holds the record for the most watched episode of Doctor Who. Christmas specials are definitely big and do have to cater to a non-fan audience and I think this episode does a good job of that.
We don't have anything like Christmas Specials here in the US. Christmas day TV is reruns, classic movies and all day marathons of popular shows. (and probably football? — i don't do sports.)
Ah “Time Crash”. It’s a bit of completely inoffensive filler. It’s just kind of there. Idk. I find it hard to have any feelings about it because nothing actually really happens. The best part about it is that this is pretty much just David Tennant fanboying over Peter Davison (WHO IS NOW HIS FUTRE FATHER-IN-LAW).
I mean there’s some cute one liners and some timey wimey time loop nonsense (and this was written by Moffat? COLOR ME SHOCKED.), so it’s amusing enough, but unlike with the other CiN special, this really doesn’t reveal anything further about the characters.
Anyway, moving on to Voyage of the Damned… KYLIE MINOGUE!!!! I think that’s all that needs to be said about this episode. Lol. Jk jk. I do love her though, as does RTD. It’s cute how thrilled he was in A Writer’s Tale to get her for Doctor Who.
Really, there isn’t a ton to analyze in this special. It’s a low budget action flick. It’s fun, but not exactly food for a ton of deep thinking and analysis. The plot is basic and the characters are there, but this isn’t an episode about character growth. There IS however copious amounts of David Tennant In a Suit which I will NEVER say no to.
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So pretty….
Anyway, I like Astrid. She’s sweet and kind, and I like that she wants to get out there and explore. She takes a job as a waitress on a star liner because she wants to see what’s out there. She’s so adorably excited when she’s on Earth, reminds me a bit of Rose in “New Earth”.
Astrid: But it's beautiful.
The Doctor: Really? You think so? It's just a street. The pyramids are beautiful, and New Zealand.
Astrid: It's a different planet, I'm standing on a different planet. The-there's concrete, and shops, real alien shops! Real alien shops. Look, no stars in the sky. And it smells. It STINKS! This is amazing! "Thanks you!
I actually see a lot of Rose in her, like when the steward dies, she gets mad at Rickstone for dismissing it like it was nothing. She sees people as PEOPLE and as having worth. I also love how at the end she’s awesome and helping the Doctor save the day, not content to just sit back and watch. And she really is just too adorable when she’s asking to come along with the Doctor. It’s sweet and she doesn’t come off as over eager either. Idk. I think that Kylie really sells it. In the hands of another actress it could come off being intrusive, but Kylie doesn’t make it seem that way at all. She made Astrid so sweet and adorable. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO DON'T LIKE ASTRID.
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Astrid: I’m sort of… unemployed now. I was thinking that blue box is kinda small but I could squeeze in, like a stowaway.
Doctor: It’s not always safe.
Astrid: So you need someone to take care of you. I’ve got no one back on Stow- no family, just me. So what do you think? Can I come with you?
Doctor: Yeah, I’d like that.
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You know, RTD sure has a thing for tragic goodbyes. The Doctor’s farewell to Astrid really reminds me of the beach scene in “Doomsday” what with Astrid pretty much being incorporeal and all. And the scene were Astrid chooses to sacrifice herself to save everyone and then falls reminds me SO much of Rose fixing the lever and then getting sucked into the void in “Doomsday”.
Speak of tragic separations, when the Doctor is telling Foon that she has to go on because Morvin would have wanted her to live, all I could think was “TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE, MR. SPIDER BABY KILLER.”
Other than that the supporting characters are pretty blah. I only like Mr. Copper because he was Richard Bucket in Keeping Up Appearances. Well that’s not entirely true. I like that he BS’ed his way into a job as an Earth historian. Lol. I mean that’s what historians are pretty much doing anyway. Hahaha. But his Earth “facts” crack me up. I just find it amusing how Earth culture can be imagined to be misconstrued through the filters of other cultures. And of course, he has that brilliant moment at the end.
Mr. Copper: [regarding Rickston] Of all the people to survive, he's not the one you would have chosen, is it? But if you could choose, Doctor, if you could decide who lives and who dies… that would make you a monster.
That was surprisingly deep and insightful, Mr. Bucket. Now shouldn’t you be off trying to prevent Hyacinth from getting up to more social climbing hijinks?
And since I really don’t have much more to actually say about this episode, I’m just going to conclude by pointing out various amusing moments.
Rickston Slade: Hang on a minute. Who put you in charge, and who the hell are you anyway?
The Doctor: I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time Lord. I'm from the planet Gallifrey in the Constellation of Kasterborous. I'm 903 years old and I'm the man who is gonna save your lives and all 6 billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?
LOL. So hilariously pompous, Doctor. ILU.
Astrid: This Christmas thing, what’s it all about it?
IDK, ASTRID. BUT YOU SHOULD ASK LINUS, I HEAR THAT HE KNOWS.
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LOL. Snapping his fingers to summon the hosts. IDEK. WHAT IS THIS? Like, idek. The word play with the angels being heavenly hosts and also actual hosts cracks me up. AND THEN THEY PUNCH THROUGH FLOORS AS THEY’RE FLYING THE DOCTOR UP TO THE BRIDGE. LOL LOL LOL
Mr. Copper: So Great Britain is part of Europe, and just across the British channel you've got Great France and Great Germany?
The Doctor: It's just France and Germany. Only Britain is Great.
DAMN STRAIGHT. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN, ETC ETC.
The Doctor: Two thousand people on this ship, six billion underneath us, all of them slaughtered, and why? Because Max Capricorn is a loser!
Max Capricorn: I never lose!
The Doctor: You can't even sink the Titanic!
LULZ. So yeah. This Christmas special is definitely fun and entertaining, if light on the character stuff with a pretty basic plot. I mean this is basically Poseidon… in Space! So it’s not going to be my favorite episode ever, but I still enjoy it.
Oh. ALSO. I FORGOT TO MENTION:
RUSSEL TOVEY!
<3
I love that he's in this episode too.
ME TOO. Man. Being Human is ace. Kylie is ace. In fact, I have revised my previous "it's ok" opinion of this episode to "ACE"
I LOVE GEORGE. GEORGE GEORGE GEORGE GEORGE GEORGE.
And I've only seen season 1.
You have fabulous comments and I love reading them. Often they say all the things I would anyway. This was a fun one. The "heavenly hosts" were ridiculous, but whatevs. I don't need every episode to be mind-bendy and deep. Fun is just fine. And I liked Astrid. I like sweet people.
Yeah. Christmas specials are meant to appeal to a broad spectrum. I don't expect them to be anything more than fun which this episode definitely is. And the heavenly hosts are SO ridiculous, but I am sucker for bad puns and lame plays on words, so I kind of adore them anyway.
That quote about him being 903 years old, etc. can be seen as pompous, sure, but I thought it was more of him finally getting his mojo back after Rose. Like, that was the moment where he decides he's going to get on with life and being a Time Lord and being awesome. I thought it was a pretty powerful moment in the context of seasons two and three.
I'll be honest, I wasn't an Astrid fan until the very end. There was just something weird going on with Kylie's face that distracted me from the BAMF-ness of Astrid
I LOVE ASTRID. Kylie was ace. I loved her when she was in Neighbours back in the day and an actress rather than a popstar.
I liked Astrid but her story felt sooooo much like Rose 2.0
It was like after all the mourning for Rose last season finally we get emotional closure and can move on.
Sorry folks but for me this episode just doesn't work. Normally I really like when Who is ambitious but this had the feeling of going a step too far. Everything leading up to the disaster is fine but they're sorta stuck once it does. You get the feeling that they just didn't have the money or time to really do what they wanted to do on this one.
Worse, the Doctor is particularly innefective here. Yeah, he saves the day but pretty much everyone dies in the process and his eventual solution with the Hosts is a) a bit too neat and b) pushing the Christ metaphor a wee bit too far, especially right after Last of the Time Lords. Oh and:
"I’m the Doctor. I’m a Time Lord. I’m from the planet Gallifrey in the Constellation of Kasterbourous. I’m 903 years old and I’m the man who is gonna save your lives and all 6 billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?"
Umm, yeah, I have a problem with that, you didn't smeggin' well do it! Only break out the Badass Boast if you're reasonably sure you can pull it off Ten!
That said there were some good moments. Kylie was fine (although her death is DUMB, once she had Max over the edge the forklift has momentum, just jump out the open side!), the effects were good, Midshipman Fame was decent and then there is the sheer bundle of Awesome that is Bernard Cribbins. His newspaper vendor has so much heart and fun in a few scant lines he really stands out.
I gotta agree with you. This is an episode I saw once and had no desire to ever see again. It's not that it's bad, per se, but it's not exactly good either. I think my major problem with it is that it's a little too religious, but in a really weird way. Between the mention that the Doctor was possibly there during the birth of Jesus (which is a bit strange considering this episode was written by the atheist RTD) to the angels carrying the Doctor up, the metaphor of the Doctor = Jesus was just a little too strong for me. It also plays too closely to Ten's reoccurring god-complex as well.
As blah as I find this episode, I DO kind of like that they had Ten build himself up as being amazing and then totally screw it up. He's done some pretty incredible things, and a lot of the time he does save the day. Sometimes he can't. It's just got this weird dissonance since the story still has to be a fun and relatively light Christmas special.
I also am not a fan of this episode.
But I am a fan of Red Dwarf…
Fact: Murray Gold (composer of DW scores), Ben Foster (orchestrator and conductor) and Yamit Mamo (the lady singing "The Stowaway) appear in this episode. Obviously their characters die. And Murray is wearing a dodgy moustache. It's hilarious.
I agree with the cheesiness of the angels but that part made me laugh so much…
And Kylie is so adorably petite, awww. This is one of my favourite Christmas Specials.
I don't remember a whole lot of this Special, I only watched it once and I've no real desire to watch it again. TBH, I found most of it pretty dull, with only a few things standing out in my memory.
One thing that stands out for the wrong reasons is the "Allons-y, Alonso!" moment. I cringed so hard when the guy said his name, because I knew what was coming. He was obviously named that solely to resurrect that joke from Doomsday. Which I never found that funny to begin with, but that's a YMMV thing.
I liked Astrid and Mr. Copper, though, and I loved the old guy at the newspaper stand, and it's amusing that everyone evacuated London after the last two Christmases. Can't say I blame them. Also, corgis! <3 /total sap
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It'd be stupid enough on its own, but so close on the heels of Sparklepire Jesus Doctor, it's a bit much. JUST A BIT. And while I normally love Murray Gold's work, the music that plays when the angel robots walk up to Ten made me facepalm. So over the top. Ten is not Jesus, okay, RTD? So let's please stop pretending he is. In fact, let's just stop this "lonely god" schtick altogether, or at least explore it from another angle. I can see Ten as a god, sure, but not the merciful saintly Christ figure – more like the douchebag deities from classical mythologies, which tended to take the view that all gods are bastards. Which quite frankly fits a lot more with how Ten actually acts.
But enough SRS. I'm deeply curious as to whether or not I'm the only one who made this connection.
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AMIRITE? They are totally my crossover crack ship now. Capricorn/Jan in the Pan OTP!
Overall, this "special" was anything but, it was meh and wtf and dragged on way too long. I don't have burning hate for it, but I didn't enjoy it too much either. It's just kind of… there. Mocking me at the back of my mind, like something lurking in the fridge from ages long past.
See I always like the Lonely God thing but, as you said, not in a Buddy Christ style way. The idea of someone with THAT level of power running around with nothing but his own angels and demons to guide him is fascinating and a natural extension of the Doctor's past and I'd far rather have spent at least part of S3 exploring that.
Also, just as an aside, I can't help but smile every time I see your Avatar arctic 😉
I was going to rant, but then you did it for me, so thanks. I agree with everything you said; the only "redeeming" feature is that it is the most Christmas-oriented Christmas specials to date.
And yesssss Bernard Cribbins. Love him shaking his fists at the sky in defiance of alien catastrophes.
I think more of this myself:
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aaaaand I fail. It's supposed to be the baby spider thing from Toy Story. 🙁
Maybe that thing is their kid!
It's funny that you mention your dislike of the "lonely god" thing, because RTD said in this episode's Confidential that he really likes the Doctor as the lonely god.
Which, looking over particularly Ten's run thus far, is unsurprising. But I think it's hitting the point where finding another way to examine that quality would be interesting.
"because RTD said in this episode's Confidential that he really likes the Doctor as the lonely god. "
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Not aimed at you, nanceoir, just RTD.
I kinda want someone to animate his eyebrow going up…
Do you mean something creepy like this?
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cannot…stop…laughing
NIGHTMARE FUEL FOREVER
…..I was actually envisioning the OTHER eyebrow. *scoff* GOD. Can't you get anything right.
OMG I LOVE YOU.
ETA: Thank you. I laughed for the first time in days.
So much WORD to the section about the "Lonely God" and being carried by the Host business.
"Also, corgis!"
Hee, that's probably my favourite detail of the scenes with the Queen.
Firstly, I agree with everything you say here.
More importantly<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/9zmzgz.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"> Ben/Michael Emerson gif love!
I loved that moment at Comic Con. So hilarious in its complete unexpectedness.
Emerson is amazing.
And I don't even know why I have a gif of this.
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I love you for posting that.
right click save
Honestly, I've never even watched Lost (I know, I know), but it is the ultimate gif.
OH THIS IS LOST STUFF.
I do need to watch that someday.
I am pretty much completely unspoiled on that front.
It is in my Netflix instant queue.
I just have this thing where I'm watching Veronica Mars and Buffy right now.
IKR?
My Netflix queue is so much longer than I have time for.
Why would you not have a gif of Ben baking a nice ham? Doesn't everybody have it? I'm sad I don't have that many Ben gifs, especially the one of Hurley throwing that hot pocket(?) at Ben.
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I HAVE STARTED A BEN GIF COMMENT THREAD. THIS IS AWESOME.
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BECAUSE BEN IS AWESOME. AND YOU ARE AWESOME.
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(I'm probably going to run out pretty quick but what the hell.)
AND SO ARE YOU. <3
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(technically not Ben but shh)
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I've to go now but have my last two Ben gifs.
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this comment is amazing.
Why, thank you~ <3 <3 <3
Epic comment is epic.
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EMERSON COD FTW!
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BEST
HIGHFIVE
EVER
Ben gif spam upthread and now Community followed by Pushing Daisies. I love this comment.
One of each!
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Love the Annie/Shirley!
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You just summed up what I didn't like about it. There were some cute moments to the special (such as Ten failing at the questions. Not the newest gag but he pulls it off adorably) and Wilf and some of the Titanic parts, but overall…
Regarding the Lonely God bit, I didn't mind it for most of the series. I think it was an interesting way to go, except by the time of the Titanic episode, I thought it was just getting cheesy. It was interesting…when it wasn't hitting the viewer over the head by now. The angel elevator scene was just awkward and a bit hamhanded imo.
Mark, thank you for the mental images of RTD getting high-fives from both God and Jesus. It will never not be awesome.
Also, did you know that both composer Murray Gold and conductor Ben Foster were in this? (Probably not, 'cause I totally missed it until I watched the Confidential episode). Murray Gold was playing the guitar in the band whilst wearing a mustache, and Ben Foster was the piano guy.
This isn't my favorite episode, but it's fun (and has Cribbins!), and that's what you want on Christmas. SO CLOSE TO SERIES 4, whee!
Didn't know this! Awesome. I thought I watched the Confidential episode of this but apparently the Confidentials were butchered on the American DVDs and so I am sad and thinking that perhaps I should try to find them online.
Yeah, it's a shame the American DVDs skimped on the Confidentials. Then again, I love behind-the-scenes stuff. (Like, I wasn't a big fan of Peter Jackson's King Kong, but I snapped at the chance to get the production diaries DVD set.)
That said, if you do seek out the Confidentials, generally speaking, episodes in Series 1 and 2 are about 30 minutes long, and episodes from Series 3 on are almost 45 minutes. So's you know what you're looking for. 🙂
Oh, and Time Crash is brilliant, it's Moffat being allowed to run riot and the result is an incredibly funny and enjoyable few minute romp. If the BBC decide to do a multi-doctor episode for the 50th anniversary surely Moffat has to get the gig….
If I believed in God, I would be praying every night for a multi-Doctor story for the 50th anniversary year. Hoping so hard.
I think a lot of people are hoping for that. It would be great.
I'm directing my multi-Doctor story thoughts to the archangel network, personally.
Now there's an idea…
We just need to all set our clocks to think it at the exact same time and we should be set.
I'll spend the next year or so telling people.
Me too, me too… It's too big an opportunity to waste…
This must happen. The decade anniversaries have always been celebrated with multi-Doctor stories. It would piss off countless fans if they didn't have an epic one for the 50th.
10th- The Three Doctors
20th- The Five Doctors
30th- Dimensions In Time
40th- Zagreus
I'm mentally demanding that all of the still living Doctors must make appearances. Everyone from Tom Baker on up even if it's just a cameo!
And every companion they can round up! I want an episode so jam-packed with self references that it'll take me weeks to figure them all out!
Agreed! I don't care if half the story is lost on the casual viewer. I want something even fan-wankier than "The Five Doctors!"
I’m really too sleepy to comment. So I’m just going to provide you with music videos.
HEY GUYS. The Doctor’s on a boat. 😀 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27XNRqG601Y
And since this one’s no longer spoilery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxyD9NyfLX8
That first vid may be the best thing to come out of this episode.
Oh dear god I'm dying at that first video.
thank you for the first vid!!!but, lol, so much anger in a song about a boat!
OMG that second one totally made me cry! And I don't even really know old Who – just know the old Doctors from the Confidentials from the first season (which sadly are only great on totally-legal download) but so touching! Thank you!
Yes, it is beautiful, managing to fit in so many subplots with the perfect clips. My personal favorite part is the Sarah Jane moment with "Get away and come with me/Come away with me and we'll see/If I was right on that night, that a future was made." Gorgeous!
Seeing Sarah Jane and Rose hugging was my turning point for some reason. I should totally watch Sarah Jane's own show. And that one second of Jack when they're talking about soldiers! And will shut mouth and not spoil at all about anything.
Second Vid = Crowning Moment of Heartwarming! (I have a new favorite song! ^_^)
When I first found this video I immediately downloaded the song and listened to it on repeat for three days. Still one of my favorite songs!
I thought this episode was really fun in parts, and ~all the sad~ in others, but overall I really enjoyed it. I loved Mr. Copper's misconceptions about Christmas, lol. And Alonso! Loved him too <3
I think if I was the Doctor, I would run far away from humans, they are too damned fragile 🙁
HE TOTALLY WAS DOCTOR EVIL!
I'm glad I never saw this on Christmas, though, because Rickston Slade would have ruined the day for me
I generally like this episode, it has its flaws and has a rather bloated run time but there's three main reasons why I can't hate it:
Bernard Cribbins as the guy that tells the Doctor and Astrid why there's nobody in London (Bernard Cribbins! Wombles flashbacks! And now the theme tune is in my head)
Russell Tovey. I adore him on Being Human (Mark you seriously need to watch that at some point, even if it's not for this blog). His voice when upset or worried about something just makes me want to give him a hug.
And most importantly, and you need to imagine this next part in an extremely high pitched squee voice: KYLIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!!! Look, it's impossible for me to dislike her in anything, she's too sparkly and wonderful. She's not the best actress the show's ever had but she's sweet and adorable (Astrid's enthusiasm for just a random London street is really sweet). I know there's no way she could have been a companion but it's still a shame that she didn't get to have even a quick trip in the TARDIS.
(splitting for length)
Mr Copper's faulty knowledge of Earthonomics is absolutely hilarious in how jumbled up it is. As much as I hate some of the overdone religious moments on this show the Doctor's "I was there, I got the last room" does make me giggle. As for Copper's fate at the end, I love that he's so excited about a chance to settle down and have a home and a garden and plates (the plates always get to me).
Rickston…yeah there's really no defending him. He has a chance to change, to show some remorse at the end but doesn't.
Oh god I hadn't really thought about it but you're right, Capricorn is very Doctor Evil-ish. About a thousand times more skeevey though. I do have one major quibble though. Why was he even on board? He mentions that he has people ready to come get him after the crash but, wouldn't it have been eaiser just so sit and wait somewhere and NOT risk something going wrong with your chamber and you dying in the crash?
My second quibble with the episode (there's not many, I'm very forgiving of a lot of things in this one): The Doctor is the next highest authority on the ship? Um, HOW? Because he thinks he is? He's not part of the crew, he's not even a passenger. Alonso is the one in charge now, not the Doctor.
PLATES
Tovey has the best crying face too. BEST.
Russell Tovey never fails to make me believe that he's legitimately sad. No one should be that good at making a sad face. UGH I LOVE HIM TOO MUCH.
I have to say the bit with the Queen had me in tears of laughter. I think they actually offered Prince Charles a walk on cameo on this but he turned them down.
According to The Writer's Tale, the invite never actually reached Prince Charles, when he gave RTD his OBE, he regretfully mentioned that it had been turned down on his behalf and he'd never even heard it had been made.
Oh, i wonder if he would have done it given the choice.
Pfft, royalty, they don't know a great opportunity when they see it!
Wasn't my fave christmas special but I did enjoy Kylie! By far though the best part of the episode was the Doctor realising Russell Tovey's character was called Alonso. I think my whole family shouted "Allons-y, Alonso!" with him!
Why are there robots on the Titanic? WHY ARE THERE ROBOTS ON THE TITANIC?
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Robots need love too, Mark!
I don't have strong feelings either way about this episode. I like the goofiness of Christmas specials, but this just felt soooo long. I liked Kylie, though!
This episode was ALL I COULD THINK OF while watching Voyage of the Damned.
I love that episode of Futurama. And yeah, I was definitely thinking about it while watching this episode.
That's one of my favourite episodes of Futurama.
It's one of mine, too! But I can say that about way too many of them.
HAHAHAHA OH MY GOD HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THIS
I just love London in this episode. Completely deserted except for one skeptic selling things at a street stand, and the queen. Wonderful!
I watched the episode without paying attention to the credits, and I had no clue that was Kylie Minogue as I didn’t know what she looked like, but I liked her character and also was excited when I thought she’d be the new companion. Do you know who the new one will be yet? Just wondering because it sounds like it from your comment.
(I’ll write more later, almost dome with work but my phone battery’s dying.)
First watching it I was unimpressed. The premise sounds cool: Titanic in space but I was left feeling meh. But on re-watch it's not all bad really.
Glad you watched Time Crash! Five is my favourite Doctor. Maybe I'm misremembering but I seem to recall that Tennant's favourite Doctor was Four. Moffat's was Five and he wrote this. So for me it was the Moff speaking through Ten, more then David.
Oh, I thought 5 was Tennant's favourite too. Can't remember where I read it, but I remember being happy because my favourite Doctors are Ten and Five. 🙂
I seem to remember David saying that he liked Tom Baker but once Time Crash was made his preference seemed to switch. I dunno.
I love Five and Ten but I find them very different (in personality.)
Given his recent engagement, I think that it's best for him to prefer Doc Five…
I have this image of Tennant having a fanboy moment at a family dinner and Georgia feeling really awkward because while you want your parents and spouse to get along, you probably don' t want hubby more interested in your dad than you.
Actually, given that moment when Doc Five glared at Doc Ten, I find myself wondering if a similar expression happened when Doc Five was trying to establish Doc Ten's intentions towards his obviously very pregnant daughter?
I remember watching this episode the first time and saying out loud, "Oh, dear. What did a fat angel ever do to you, RTD, to make you hate fat people and angels so much?"
Time Crash = Epic awesome and hilarity, made even funnier by Davison's real-life daughter and Tennant getting it on a while after this episode was made. And they're apparently having a very geeky baby soon!
End of the world predicted for 2012? Pah. SuperMutantTimelordBaby will break the space-time continuum first!
ETA: Mark, in case you're into this kind of gossip, which you probably aren't: don't look up this story on the web – there may be SPOILERS on the way!
This episode has two of my favourite lines in all of new Who, and you quoted both of them in your Thoughts.
Allons-y, Alonso!
Makes me giggle every time.
I’m the Doctor. I’m a Time Lord. I’m from the planet Gallifrey in the Constellation of Kasterbourous. I’m 903 years old and I’m the man who is gonna save your lives and all 6 billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?….In that case ALLONS-Y!
Oh my god Doctor you complete BAMF, never change <3 *insert heavy irony because he's a Time Lord and therefore can regenerate*
Time crash!
I love the doctor's insinuation that the Master is gay.
5th: Does he still have that ridiculous beard?
10th: No, no beard this time, well… a wife but…
I know this episode isn’t a fan favourite…but I really enjoy it! Maybe I’m just easy to please, but it was so great imo!
Also, what is the song, about 15 mins in? Someone is singing and everyone is dancing, right after they come back up from earth and before the Doctor realises the meteor storm is coming?
Some of my favourite moments:
Doctor: “I’m a Timelord” BIG SPARKS BEHIND HIM for emphasis. 1) Awesome! 2) Megalol
Doctor:Did you get that message?
Horrible rich man: What message?
Doctor: Shuttup!
Astrid and Banakafalata having their romantic moments and getting engaged? Just AWWWW!
Thoughts on the gang:
Banakafalata (sp?) was so amazing and funny and sweet! Mr Copper made me cry at the end. I felt so bad for him before and I was so happy when he realised he had money for once in his life. Astrid was lovely. Foon and her husband- SO MUCH LOVE. The moment when she revealed their debt made me cry and laugh and oh it was amazing! How much IS 5000 credits? I don’t care, they are the sweetest couple!
Kylie was great 🙂 not AMAZING or anything but I think she did a really good job!
You mean the song Stowaway? That's an original song by Murray Gold for this episode, it's on the S3 soundtrack. I love it. I always find myself singing Murray Gold's songs at Christmas
Once I met a stowaway
Upon my ship on Christmas Day.
I was fair so I gave him a chance.
'You shouldn't be here, what's you're tale?
I ought to throw you to the whale!'
He just said: 'Come here, let's dance!"
Now first Time Crash trvia.
A. As said Peter Davison is going to be Tennant’s father in law soon. Hell Tennant’s going to be a dad soon. Yes that kid is going to be the son AND grandson of The Doctor.
B. Peter Davison was the Doctor who inspired Tennant’s Doctor.
C. I’m slightly amazed you didn’t catch this one. The Tenth Doctor’s reference to Lucy Saxon following a question from the Fifth as to whether the Master still has “that rubbish beard?” is a reference to a term used in gay culture. A “beard” is the wife of a man who has not outed himself but wishes to keep up the appearance of a happily married heterosexual man. The Master used Lucy Saxon to more plausibly maintain his fictitious identity. Say is that unfortunate implications?
D. Steven Moffat (writer) also wrote the Comic Relief story, The Curse of Fatal Death. Which you must watch by the way. You are ready.
E. The special was introduced by Terry Wogan and John Barrowman.
F. This is the first official episode of Doctor Who written by Steven Moffat that doesn’t use his theme of highlighting childhood fears.
Now Voyage of the Damned.
A. Peth’s death at the conclusion of the episode was the first time a companion of the Doctor had died in the revived series. Rose does not count.
B. For a while this was the most watched Who episode ever.
C. The use of a starship incarnation of the Titanic has been featured in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, the television series Futurama, and the video game and novel Starship Titanic, also authored by Douglas Adams.
D. The working title for this story was Starship Titanic. As Davies writes in The Writer’s Tale, it was changed when it was pointed out that Douglas Adams had created a video game and novel by that title, with an extremely similar concept, years earlier.
E. That’s actually a new theme tune used in the opening!
F. The episode is dedicated to the late Verity Lambert, the very first producer of Doctor Who and a legend in the TV industry. Verity died on 22 November 2007, one day before Doctor Who’s 44th anniversary, and (per The Writer’s Tale), Davies immediately requested a tribute card be inserted into the episode. The TARDIS sound effect is heard softly in the background as the tribute is shown.
G. This was Kylie Minogue’s first major acting appearance since her diagnosis and survival from breast cancer two years earlier. Minogue was actually a film and TV actor before she became a singer, and had made occasional film appearances since launching her musical career.
H. David Tennant’s mother died near the start of production of the episode, forcing the crew to shoot around him during his subsequent absence. AWW. Poor Tennant. Take all the hugs.
Anything I missed?
I find the beard thing astonishing. I just thought `rubbish beard` was reference to the fact the Master had facial hair in Classic Who. But then, I don't know any slang for anything at all.
As for Voyage, here's a nice little image for you: When Russell had dinner with Kylie to pitch the Christmas Special, they ended up singing a duet. Somehow, they got talking about the Muppet Show, and Kylie was trying to remember the song `Halfway down the Stairs` that Kermit's nephew used to sing on the steps. Russell sang the first line, Kylie sang the second and they were off on their duet. I so wish I'd been there!
Link to the song in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGFR3zz12p0
I find the beard thing astonishing. I just thought `rubbish beard` was reference to the fact the Master had facial hair in Classic Who. But then, I don't know any slang for anything at all.
As for Voyage, here's a nice little image for you: When Russell had dinner with Kylie to pitch the Christmas Special, they ended up singing a duet. Somehow, they got talking about the Muppet Show, and Kylie was trying to remember the song `Halfway down the Stairs` that Kermit's nephew used to sing on the steps. Russell sang the first line, Kylie sang the second and they were off on their duet. I so wish I'd been there!
Link to the song in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGFR3zz12p0
The "rubbish beard" was a double-meaning joke, referring both to the fact that in Classic Who the Master always sported a beard, and the fact that he kept Lucy as a way to keep up appearances. I'm sure it wasn't intended as an offense; I found it hilarious and witty, actually. Then again, there are people in this world who will get offended by even the slightest of jokes – it's sad, really.
Yeah, just to make it clear, I didn't doubt the point was correct. I just don't know things like that. I've led a very sheltered life. 😉
Well, to be honest, I had to look it up myself, but that's only because English is not my first language, and I'm not familiar with all the idioms and slang phrases… 😉
I have a copy of Starship Titanic somewhere in the house and it's ACE. 😀
That child shall BE EPIC.
It will also be the grandchild of Trillian from the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy TV series (and the "Dish of the Day", which was voiced by Davison). How much geek cred can a single human being hold without suffering spontaneous existence failure?
Sadly that kid will probably turn out to be like "THIS GEEK STUFF SUCKS. I'M GONNA GO READ TWILIGHT AND LISTEN TO LINKIN PARK JUST TO BE ~A REBEL~"
"A. As said Peter Davison is going to be Tennant's father in law soon. Hell Tennant's going to be a dad soon. Yes that kid is going to be the son AND grandson of The Doctor."
That child pretty much has to have a role on the show at some point.
Well we need to assume that the show lasts that long and the kid loves the Who. Seriously I fear for him on the playground.
The kid will either be a god or a bully target.
'Well we need to assume that the show lasts that long'
Hey, it's been doing alright for the past almost-50 years. If it gets canned any time soon then some kid who's watching the run now and getting inspired and scared and entertained will inevitably bring it back.
Huh. And I thought the whole "Titanic" thing was a totally intentional shout-out to Douglas Adams and Terry Jones. Learn something new every day, I guess.
Terry Wogan and John Barrowman? Holy crap, I would love to hang with that pair.
The rule quoted by the Doctor which worked is a rule which is used in the computer game Starship Titanic to get past one of the obstacles.
Voyage of the Damned is still the most watched episode of the revived show with 13.3 million, but 7 episodes of the Classic series beat it, with the highest being City of Death part 4 with 16.1 million. City of Death enjoyes some really high ratings what with rival channel ITV being on strike and there were only 3 channels in those days. Couldn't have happened to a better serial!
As for Verity Lambert, I just love that there have been awesome women working in very prominent positions on this show. I'm thinking of her and of the woman who arranged the original theme tune, which is iconic, of course.
I didn't really love this special when it aired, and I don't own a copy so I can't rewatch it now, but as I remember it it was just…kinda turgid. Maybe it's because I never watched whatever disaster movies it's referencing, but it should have been able to stand on its own regardless – the fact that I never watched zombie movies didn't stop me from adoring Shaun of the Dead, for instance. Kylie Minogue foundered when she was asked to play a range beyond "flirty and cute", which really made me miss Catherine Tate. The fat-phobia made me pretty uncomfortable, and coming so soon after Disco Tinkerbell Jesus, seeing the Doctor floating up in a crucified position made me eyeroll hard. So basically, I found nothing to love 99% of the A plot.
But that doesn't mean there was nothing of merit underneath. I liked Mr. Copper, and after S3's hyper-arrogant bastardly bastard Doctor, I found hope in lines like the one you pointed out, Mark, about choosing who lives and who dies. The Doctor also spent the first 15 minutes or so of this special basically walking around doing good deeds for people. Laughable Jesus imagery aside, this episode gives us a kinder, gentler Ten – perhaps one who was genuinely changed by his experiences on the Valiant.
Kylie Minogue was one thing, but imagine if Dennis Hopper had been in it as well? He actually made a request to be cast in Doctor Who and they were discussing casting him either as Mr Cropper or Max Capricorn. Unfortunately they weren't able to reach an agreement about scheduling and availability in time and he had to drop out. Oh, and they asked Prince Charles to be in it at the end, but he declined.
The Titanic was supposed to hit Buckingham Palace and rip a big whole in it, rather than narrowly missing, and the Queen was supposed to shout, "Damn you, Doctor!". The budget didn't stretch to that, though.
As for Kylie (who was an actress to start with, she played Charlene on the Australian soap Neighbours and also had roles in classy movies like Street Fighter and Biodome), her creative director, Will Baker is a huge Doctor Who and a friend of Mark Gatiss and suggested, at the series three press launch, that Kylie might be interested. On a related theme, here's a picture of her from 2002 with an Eighth Doctor novel (apparently the one that had just come out – Camera Obscura):
<img src="http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2448/sleepykylie1qk.png">
And here, from her 2006 tour, are some dancing Cybermen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRshIv6twnA
followed by:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hToV9DWf2dk
I think there may have been other Who-influenced stuff in some of her other tours as well.
That second video is amazing.
WHAT DENNIS HOPPER WHAT!!!!
This episode was such a ripoff of The Poseidon Adventure! Does anyone else remember that movie? It even has a rotund middle-aged lady who dies saving the rest of the survivors. Oh, Foon. *tears*
The original or the remake? Hehe, I just can't get away from 70s movies today!
I'm going to say the 1970s original, because I never saw the remake.
" No beard this time. Well, a wife."
MOFFAT, THE INTERNET SEES WHAT U DID THERE
Come on, it was funny! (maybe even a good-natured jab at the Doctor/Master shippers? 😛 )
Not a lot to add, or a lot of time to say much, but just gotta say…
Poseidon Adventure! Max Headroom! So many callouts and references in this one, but those two struck me in particular. "My name is Max-Max-Max-Max-Max…."
For those who say that the Doctor didn't have bragging rights about being Large And In Charge, well, he did save all six billion people on Earth, even if he didn't save most of the people on the Titanic.
Astrid done good, and first time through, I half-expected her to be the next series companion. But she wouldn't have been as good as….
Allons-y, Alonso!
Well, in the Doctor's defense, most of the people on the Titanic died when the meteors hit, and I don't think he was really in a position to do much about it at that point, what with the whole sabotage thing with that captain and all.
From The Writer's Tale, RTD obviously fantasised about it for a moment before realising that the BBC's budget would never come close to cover employing Kylie for nearly a full year!
Is there any name that says "douchebag" quite as clearly as "Rickston"? I CANNOT THINK OF ONE. (ETA: If anyone out there is named Rickston, I am sorry.)
Other than that: the floating Doctor with Angels (coming just after Tinkerbell!Jesus!Doctor, too!) marked for me the place where RTD totally jumped the shark with the Doctor-as-Lonely-God theme. UGH. David Tennant is so amazing, but even he can't manage to make that bit be not embarrassingly cheesy.
I think the floating Doctor is kind of fitting with Ten's arc though, so far, though I agree it's cheesy!
Plus one million on the whole "lonely god" thing. I can't remember exactly what it was that pushed me over the edge, but I do feel like this was part of it. The Doctor =/= amazing sparkly perfection, and I got really sick of RTD pushing that kind of image of him.
This exactly. I wasn't fond of the "lonely god"/Doctor=Jesus thing from the beginning, but this special definitely pushed me over the edge. It even makes me retroactively dislike the religious imagery from earlier seasons (I'm looking at you sparkling DobbyJesusDoctor).
The part where I decided RTD was really overdoing with the ~lonely god~ is future and spoilers, but yeah, he needed to leave it alone. It got very wearing.
I don't think it's Rickston, that's a problem. You know how it goes, could be a family name or whatever. I think the fact that he doesn't go with Rick is the indicator that he's a twat.
I think the fact that he doesn't go with Rick is the indicator that he's a twat.
Exactly my point! 🙂
He totally redeemed the bit with the Angels by that thing that he did with his legs when he climbed through the deck whilst shouting "Hello Sailor!"
I'm not very fond of this Christmas episode, but I do love Bannakaffalatta and the couple that died.
Mr. Copper! What a silly man. He's cool too.
Also, does it ever properly snow, or is it always some sort of spaceship debris in London at Christmastime?
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I'm usually not sold on the Christmas specials but for some reason I enjoyed this one, even if it's not what I generally like in a DW episode. Some good characters, some great lines, and it has Kylie Minogue.
<img src="http://oi54.tinypic.com/2iag5mu.jpg">
Also, Time Crash is awesome. I think it would have resonated more if you had seen Caves of Androzani first, but maybe that will work in the opposite direction as well.
I know Time Crash isn't meant to be taken that seriously but…
Ten told Five that the Master had turned up again, so past Doctor knew that the Master would come back again and he wouldn't be the last of his kind. Don't know if I've phrased that right lol
*handwavery*
Well would you remember the details of such a brief meeting after several hundred years. 😉
Well he remembered what to do with the Tardis. And him being the last Time Lord is a pretty big deal. So yup.
But again *hand wave* 😉
Yes, but ten didn't tell him *when* he was from or the time war.
It has also been established the Doctor doesn't remember everything form multi-Doctor interactions.
Well he should remember what he's going to look like: skinny idiot with the trainers and glasses lol.
It doesn't really fit into canon, thus the hand waving. Its just something odd I wanted to point out 🙂
Ahhh, but Ten knew right from the start that Lucy was the Master's WIFE and not girlfriend! Because he remembered himself saying it! 😉
And that's why he was scared when Martha mentioned Yana's fobwatch – because, frankly, it really COULD have been any random Time Lord, but he remember what he said to himself when he was Five, and thought "Oh shit, it's the Master isn't it? SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!" 😉
(Just trying to find a plausible explanation to the wibbly-wobbly timey-wimeyness of Time Crash… 😛 )
Just like to put a small shout out to my friend Nathan was a featured artist in this as the "Glamourous Man", whose the central figure other than Slade to get doused in champagne! 😀
I love this story as the Christmas Day Disaster Movie story it's meant to be. Both moving and exciting and full of colourful characters, this is perhaps the series at both its silliest and most adventurous.
Mr. Copper: So Great Britain is part of Europe, and just across the British channel you've got Great France and Great Germany?
The Doctor: It's just France and Germany. Only Britain is Great.
Made me laugh! ^^
It's Kylie Minogue! Most famous person to star in DW so far, I think. And Russell Tovey. I've not watched Being Human (maybe I'll get around to it sometime), but I did watch the original pilot for the show, and I thought he was great. And Bernard Cribbins! Telling us people on Earth have wised up to aliens and know to stay inside on Christmas, lol.
Sorry Ten(nant), but even you can't pull off sneakers while working a black tie event.
There are some good moments in this ep, but a lot of it is largely forgettable for me. And it's hard for me to pay attention to the entire thing since I've seen it before. Why are you so long, least favorite Christmas special of mine?
And I wish the show would stop with the deification of the Doctor. At least for Ten, who seems to deserve it least of the new Who Doctors.
I watched this again recently and was surprised to see that it still holds up pretty well. OK the enemy is terrible and there's a number of other problems but it feels very big and cinematic and a little over the top but hey, titanic in SPACE, killer robots and Kylie Minoque, what's not to like.
The Ten with angels thing is obviously meant as a joke, they come crashing through the floor of the bridge, for goodness sakes. It's a Christmas image that sets up a bit of funny nonsense – and gets the Doctor to the bridge quickly.
But I think the Doctor as Jesus is massively overstated, anyway. It's not the only way to read the imagery and nothing about the situation suggests that Doctor is behaving like Jesus either in this or the previous episode. I think a lot of it is just pattern matching and jumping to conclusions.
Anyway, here's a video mash up of Time Flight (5th Doctor story involving Concorde slipping through a time tunnel to the pre-historic era), Logopolis (the Master tries to hold the universe to ransom via a radio telescope), a Kylie Minogue video and load of other stuff. It was made in the run up to Voyage of the Damned and is called "Flight of the Darned":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmh8xeX6SG0
And, to repeat myself from yesterday, here are some legal links to Caves of Androzani. Apparently the blinkbox one is the only one that works outside the UK. As I said before, as a last resort you can do a search on Daily Motion.
http://www.blinkbox.com/TV/Series/343/Doctor-Who-…
http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Ps0e32nFzs0&s=2…
http://www.seesaw.com/TV/Drama/p-10027-Episode-1
http://video.uk.msn.com/search/caves%20of%20andro…
Strangely, the only one that works for me is the YouTube link, and I'm in the US.
That was the one I guessed at yesterday. I think the person who tried them then was in Ireland – so it looks like different sites have different region locks.
Yeah I'm in Ireland. Funny that something from the UK would work in the US but not Ireland. I always thought regioning was all inclusive outside of the country of origin but I guess not.
Thanks again for the links though. Nice to find a legal place to watch Classic Doctor Who.
Watched the Youtube one yesterday, actually. In the US. Works great.
I have a vague memory that that YouTube channel was originally set up only for North America, which caused a bit of a stink (with the licence fee and all) so they opened it up to the UK as well. That would explain why it didn't work in Ireland.
Edit: looks like I remembered correctly…
http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2009/11/classic-seri…
I don't have much to say about this story, except that I love it. Not quite as much as The Runaway Bride, but I'm only talking degrees of awesomeness here. I think the disaster movie format accomodates Doctor Who brilliantly – this show can do anything – and get fully swept away by it every time I watch it.
Considering this was (I think) Kylie's first major acting role since her early years as Charlene in Australian soap Neighbours, I think she creates a lovely and fully believable character in Astrid. The first tme we see her pass by the camera, there's always a `Wow! Kylie!` moment, but after the titles*, I calm down, and I don't see Kylie anymore. I just see Astrid. For such an iconic figure, that's a tough thing to do, I think. So that makes for a very good performance in my book.
*Speaking of the titles. No mention from Mark about the new theme arrangement that debuted in this episode. I'm not sure how much Mark sees/hears of the titles because I think he stops the video to avoid the trailers. So he possibly won't have seen the credits running at 100mph.
One last little factoid: When the name of the `companion` for this episode was revealed as `Astrid`, certain corners of the internet went into meltdown (PRAC FX: SPARKS) because it's an anagram of TARDIS. So obviously the companion was actually going to be a sentient TARDIS in humanoid form!…
…Or it could just be a complete coincidence?…Nah!
Well there HAVE been sentient humanoid TARDISes and it would be pretty awesome. (I haven't read/listened to/wev any of the stories, mind, I just read a whoooole lot of the wiki recently.)
<img src="http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/271/c/a/tardis_games_by_caycowa-d2zonni.png" height="350" width="454">
You can tell which one's the TARDIS because she's smiling.
anyone else have a problem with the Aliens that looked like humans not being explained at all as what they were?
That happens all the time in DW. The writers have handwaved it by saying the Time-Lords, pompous gits that they are, influenced evolution algorithms so most sentient species develop to look just like them.
(Yeah, doesn't make much sense. Just roll with it.)
Ha, I actually never thought of that.
lol very interesting. And I didn't even notice it until my boyfriend mentioned it. Bothered the crap out of him ha
I don't know if their human appearance bothered me so much as the fact that there was absolutely no apparent difference in culture whatsoever, aside from the fact that they didn't share our holidays. They wore the same kind of clothing as us, talked the same way, held the same sort of values, etc etc etc. Usually they'll alter either the physical appearance of a species, or pronounce their differences in culture and fashion- or in the most recent series, give the excuse that they're future decendents of humans whatever. But this was current day, and not even a handwave. So…. yeah, lol, I guess someone else had a problem.
Frankly, I don't see why there *shouldn't* be aliens that look human. Once you've established there are 2 similar looking species (humans and Time Lords) it makes perfect sense that there should be more. As for the clothing – that was obviously because they were on a cruise to earth. The clothes and the food, etc, were all part of the experience. As for the similarities in culture, that's very likely the reason why a cruise to planet earth was interesting to them.
So no problem here.
I thought they were dressed like Earthlings for their Earth cruise?
Actually originally they were supposed to have some sort of jewel tattoo on their foreheads but they abandoned that idea.
Oh God, Time Crash, I LOVE IT SO EFFING MUCH. Especially Five's take on Ten: "It really would help if there wasn't some skinny idiot RANTING about everything that happens to be in front of him!" Ooooh yeah, feel the burn. XD I love all the snarkiness and the "wibbley-wobbley timey-wimey" and how Five burns Ten yet again by not even responding to the high five! The lovely meta of David saying to Peter "You were my Doctor!" *sniff*
"To days to come."
"All my love to long ago."
That really is Peter's old costume and most of it still fitted, although he could no longer do the coat up! 😀
“I’m the Doctor. I’m a Time Lord. I’m from the planet Gallifrey in the Constellation of Kasterbourous. I’m 903 years old and I’m the man who is gonna save your lives and all 6 billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?”
I loved this moment and I love Russell Tovey as Alonso. Before it came out, there was a lot of speculation about Astrid's surname 'Peth' which means 'thing' in Welsh. As her first name is an anagram of TARDIS, people thought she might be connected to the TARDIS in some way. Sadly not. I don't hate or love this Christmas special. It's a bit of a 'meh' episode for me. I'll watch it if it's on but I don't seek it out.
I just realised that I'm so going to name any child I'll have in the future Astrid, from the Tardis (and Astrid Lindgren)…
It's a lovely name. Means "divine beauty". 🙂
'Before it came out, there was a lot of speculation about Astrid's surname 'Peth' which means 'thing' in Welsh.'
To me, just because I like being cynical, this reads to me like 'RTD just ran out of name ideas'. Which is of course bull, because I've read The Writer's Tale and goddamn, pretty much everything on this show is intentional. It was probably fan-bait, right?
I never liked the "anagram of TARDIS" explanation. "Astrid" struck me as more something to do with the stars (astral, asterisk, astronomy, etc). So then her name would mean roughly "star thing" which, considering what happens to her, is quite fitting.
Well, if that were the case, he could have just called her Astra or even Stella! I personally think he chose the name as a tribute to Kylie, because he's such a big fan. 🙂
Yeah, sorry… reading all this makes me think only one thought: "So close to series 4!"
Squee. 😀
The Doctor likes his blondes, doesn't he? I'm upset that he invited Rose and Astrid to be his companions right away, while he kept putting Martha off until she called him on it!
I noticed this two. Ten does like blonds..
Cool guys don’t look at explosions…
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/15ogcus.gif" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I don't really have all that much to say about this episode. It's not awful but it's not particularly great. It all feels a bit too drawn out and a bit too cheesey. I guess generally it just all feels a bit too much. Oddly we have this big dramatic setting on the crashing Titanic and my favourite parts are largely the scenes on Earth, Astrid's excitement at being on an alien planet and everything about it, the Queen in her dressing gown and curlers waving to the ship, Wilf staying out in London and his love for the Queen and outrage that any alien ship would dare crash into Buckingham Palace (I love Bernard Cribbons) and Mr. Copper's excitement over the fact he'll finally have a home with a real garden, and a kitchen with real chairs.
I do love Time Crash. As I've said else where it's probably my favourite Doctor Who related Children in Need piece. I have a special love for the exchange: 'To days to come.' 'All my love to long ago.'
On to series 4. You are not prepared!
VOTD was fun to watch, but Time Crash WINS FOREVER. Stephen Moffat's dialogue and ideas rules, and the acting is great. Some of the best 7 minutes of TV I've seen thus far.
I liked a lot of the themes and commentary of the episode, but overall, it was a bit meh for me.
I have virtually no feelings at all about "Voyage of the Damned" (seriously, I tend to forget it exists, even though I don't hate it or anything), so I will devote my comment to "Time Crash", which is at least 50 kinds of amazing.
The whole thing is just meta fanboying, and it is utterly hilarious and adorable. I like how they throw in an offhand explanation of why the First Doctor was a crotchety old guy, then started getting younger. He was trying to be taken seriously when he was young, then after a few regenerations apparently said "Fuck it" and went for being a young guy who wore a silly hat and a vegetable on his lapel. I'll buy that explanation.
The only thing I don't get is how Five didn't pick up on the fact that Ten was him more quickly. You'd think he'd at least realize he was another Time Lord. I guess he was a bit distracted what with the TARDIS about to blow up thing, but still.
"Does he still have that rubbish beard?"
"No, no beard this time. Well, a wife…"
AHAHAHAHHAHA THAT WILL NEVER STOP BEING HILARIOUS. Doctor Who: current king of Getting Shit Past the Radar. Way to throw the Doctor/Master shippers a bone, Moffat.
"To the days to come."
"All my love to long ago."
Oh, the bittersweetness. Five, you don't want to know what's coming.
Definitely my favorite of the shorts they've done. I literally spend every second of it grinning, except when I'm laughing my head off. If we don't get a proper multi-Doctor story, preferably one involving Nine, at some point, I will be very very sad.
Yeah, Time Crash was about 50x more enjoyable/rememberable. STEVEN MOFFAT ILU 4EVUR.
You quoted the "To the days to come" "All my love to long ago" bit, which reminded me of a question I have… Is it from anything? A poem or book or film? Or maybe just the "all my love to long ago" line? I did a quick google but it all seems to be relating to doctor who…maybe I'm just amazed at how lovely that line is and surprised that it could come out of a charity short for a childrens scifi/fantasy/adventure tv programme but I really feel as though I recognise it from somewhere else.
I'm pretty sure they made it up, at least it's not from any poem or song I've ever heard. It is lovely, rather more lyrical that you expect from Doctor Who.
I'm praying that we get a multi Doctor story for the 50th anniversary. Nine would be great but they just have to include Eight or angry letters will be sent to the Beeb!
Ooo.. you know what would be good? Multi Doctor Story.. for the 50th.. WITH THE TIME WAR ACTUALLY GOING DOWN.
I like how they throw in an offhand explanation of why the First Doctor was a crotchety old guy, then started getting younger. He was trying to be taken seriously when he was young, then after a few regenerations apparently said "Fuck it" and went for being a young guy who wore a silly hat and a vegetable on his lapel. I'll buy that explanation.
I think I like this most of all because I'm a huge Arthurian legend nerd and there are a lot of stories where Merlin passes time in the opposite direction: to our eyes, he starts out as old and gets younger. This hasn't always been the case with Doctor Who, but it is, generally speaking (especially when you consider NuWho) and that, in my mind, drew a parallel (one of many) to those legends, which makes my heart all a-flutter.
Battlefield!
Yay Once and Future King.
Time Crash is BRILLIANT. In the space of mere 7 minutes, Moffat manages to explain (fairly reasonably) both why the older Doctors look older in multi-Doctor stories (shortened time differential) and why the TARDIS interior keeps changing (it's a desktop theme! Genius! 😀 ), and insert a bunch of hilariously witty lines ("…blow the hole in the space-time continuum the size of… well, the exact size of Belgium. That's rather undramatic, isn't it?" or "Hey, I'm the Doctor, I can save the Universe using a kettle and some string, and look at me, I'm wearing a vegetable."). Really good fun romp, that one. 🙂 And a nice homage to Moffat's (and Tennant's) favourite Doctor.
The Voyage of the Damned on the other hand… Meh. Thoroughly meh. I actually found Kylie quite good and her Astrid a very likeable character (her promising to go on a date with Bannakaffalata was just sweet), but that's about it. I didn't care for the rest of the characters, the villain was incredibly cheesy (and NOT in a good way!), and there were so many cringeworthy moments – "Allons-y, Alonso!", the unconvincing "I R BAMF TIME LORD!!11!1!!" speech, the Host flying the Doctor upwards (as if we hadn't got enough Doctor=Jesus imagery already…)… Meh.
On the other hand… BERNARD FUCKING CRIBBINS!!!! <3 <3 <3
"BERNARD FUCKING CRIBBINS!!!! <3 <3 <3"
This.
Not a giant fan of this episode. I definitely don't dislike it, but its just a bit too silly for me. It is great fun to watch with the family though- my older parents appreciated 'The Poseidon Adventure Homage' and my sister and I got to giggle over everything my generation loves (and also finds silly).
I do like the running commentary about cyborg rights, and the jokes about Earth being primitive. Also, the scenes about London being deserted. Oh, poor Wilfred the Newspaper Man; how are you selling newspapers if there's no one in the city?!?
Voyage of the Damned is one of those
episodesspecials which I watched with half my brain saying 'tee-hee!' and the other half squirming in slight embarrassment.Some episodes of Doctor Who are like a fine wine, an excellent vintage to be treasured and savoured. Some are the just a glass of the cheap house red, pedestrian and maybe starting to oxidise. Occasionally you get a refreshing glass of pure distilled terror, made from grapes scared off the vine by by Weeping Angels and pressed beneath the feet of archaeologists who Don't Turn Around. And sometimes, fortunately rarely, you get a glass of what can only be three-week old old cat urine. From a really unwell cat.
For me Voyage of the Damned is a large glass of sparkling wine. It's full of bubbles and all about the fun but it's not exactly quality – its grapes have never seen the Champagne region in their lives. But I don't care. I'll drink that fizzy bubbly stuff and grin. After all, it has Kylie and the Titanic and Bernard Cribbins (briefly)! The Doctor flying by angel-power is a little over the top but that's ok, it's well within my tolerance. Yes, large chunks of this one are absolute cheese… but wine and cheese is always a good combination as far as I'm concerned.
LOL, I love your wine metaphor.
Thank you. I'm feeling ridiculously pleased with it, it seemed to sum up what I wanted to say.
"Voyage of the Damned is one of those episodes specials which I watched with half my brain saying 'tee-hee!' and the other half squirming in slight embarrassment."
Perfectly put, that's exactly how I feel about it.
Thanks. I'm glad it's not just me, then.
This metaphor may be one of the best summations of the show I've read. Bravo!
Thank you. Doctor Who does seem to exhibit quite a range of quality, doesn't it? But then, as has been said before, if it played safe and thus avoided the lows it wouldn't reach its spectacular highs, which are worth it.
Best metaphor of the varying quality of Doctor Who EVER!!! 🙂 I applaud you, sir/madam (delete whichever's innapropriate).
Presumably, were I a Cyberman, I could just delete everyone? 🙂 Although then, I'd apparently be subject to discrimination if I ever stomped foot on Planet Sto.
Since I'm not a Cyberman and, to my lasting regret, I'm not a Dalek either (but WHY?!), I shall be the 'sir'. Also, thank you.
My feelings on this special are split. Part of me loved it for all the reasons you mentioned, plus there are some hilarious lines such as when the so-called earth expert starts to lecture on the history of Christmas and gets it wrong in a mad libs sort of way.
But another part of me found it horribly silly. Especially the part where the queen waves to the Titanic (how does she know the Doctor anyway?). On the whole, I think this one is average with a few good scenes that save it from being bad. Which I notice tends to be the case with a lot of the Christmas specials.
Considering the number of times he's met British monarchs throughout the history, I'm sure he's a sort of family legend. I would say more, but… spoilers. 😉
*bounces with glee thinking about that particular spoilers*
In a not-spoiler note, One mentions having a giant row with Henry VII before the series began in one episode. The interactions with royalty go waaaay back.
Ah, yes that is spoilers because now I totally remember and feel like kicking myself. Though now I really want an episode that has the Doctor meeting up with Queen Elizabeth…I give you permission to use this idea Moffat.
Of course, the chance to say that was a special Christmas Present for the Doctor! I understand that it was DT himself who made the suggestion which gave him a second chance to kiss Kylie…
RUSSELL TOVEY APPRECIATION POST
<img src="http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b462/jessicaroseish/GIF%20-%20Tumblr/Untitled-2-1.gif" border="0" alt="Being Human Hula Dance Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
<img src="http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss111/christyj12/gifs/502ixh.gif" border="0" alt="Being Human glasses fail Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
<img src="http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n418/campjinx25/My%20GIFS/BeingHuman-1×05.gif" border="0" alt="Being Human 01×05-IamDarkness Pictures, Images and Photos"/>
True story, I started my rewatch, saw Russell Tovey, and immediately abandoned Voyage of the Damned for the most recent episode of Being Human. God I love George.
My personal favorite
<img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/2ngar8h.jpg">
This special is really meh for me, BUT I am really excited to hear that you don't know who the next companion is! I already knew when I started this season, and I think it'll be way more exciting for you not knowing.
I am not a giant fan of this episode as a whole. However, you can't beat the fact that it is fun, which is just what a Christmas episode was meant to be. And there are some small good bits, such as:
“But if you could choose, Doctor, if you could decide who lives and who decides…that would make you a monster.”
Precisely. Oh so precisely, Mr. Copper. Sadly, asshole Rick survived. They sometimes do. Go RTD for facing up to that reality.
“Allons-y, Alonso!”
I squealed when he finally got to use this.
And also… TIME CRASH.
WORDS CANNOT DESCRIBE HOW MUCH I LOVE THIS. It's basically like… David Tennant is a fanboy. A ginormous fanboy. Onscreen. Of himself. Wow. The love.
I don't have strong feelings in any direction about Voyage. It had some good ideas, some funny lines, some beautiful settings, some fairly interesting characters.
Now, Time Crash. I recall grinning all the way through the mini episode. The genuine affection and respect Tennant (and Moffat) had for the Fifth Doctor always makes me happy. I love the lively dialogue, the natural competition The Doctor has with himself, and the way he works with himself to solve the problem at hand. And I love the callbacks to the past and past companions. And the *wink, wink* beard joke, even though I always thought Anthony Ainley's beard was imbued with just the right amount of over-the-top villainy. And the "brainy specs!" And "Hey, I'm the Doctor, I can save the Universe using a kettle and some string, and look at me, I'm wearing a vegetable."
AND OMG CAVES OF ANDROZANI!
Ugh. I have a cold and it's making me stupid and not-good-word-using and putting in order and sense-making. BUT YAY CAVES OF ANDROZANI!
I didn't make this, but I've had it hanging around my gif folder for AGES, and now I CAN POST IT
FUCK YEAH TOPICAL RELEVANCE
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/1ih3ky.png" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
YOU SIR. WIN ALL THE INTERNETS.
<img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/imperialphoenix/Reaction/ThreadisDiamonds.jpg">
Both of you are making my laugh so hard I almost spit wine on my keyboard.
Well you can spit some of that over here. I have some sorrows that need drowning.
<img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/imperialphoenix/Reaction/HelloAlcohol.jpg">
Well, it's not very good wine, but you're welcome to some! ::sends mildly crappy virtual wine::
Oh my god, that is a brilliant comic.
Yes! Yes! A thousand times YES!!
Mark, when you have the time you should check out this fan made comic called The Ten Doctors. It takes place right before Smith and Jones, and has a funny bit that was written before Time Crash that strongly resembles it.
http://comics.shipsinker.com/archive.php?arc=10do…
I'd forgotten that "The Ten Doctors" is non-spoilery now! Mark should definitely read it when he has the time. It is the definition of Continuity Porn, but even as a new fan you can enjoy it. Every time I re-read it, I know more about the Whoniverse so I can spot more and more references. If you have a favorite side-character, chances are they're going to get a cameo or at least a mention at some point (mine comes in the form of Drax). All the Doctors are given their fair share of "screentime" and there are about a million Crowning Moments of Awesome.
I pretty much cannot emphasize how much I adore this fancomic.
I just started to read it. Slightly annoyed at the author's obvious distaste of Rose, but. HOLY CRAP IT IS LONG. And beautifully drawn, too.
Yes, you can tell Rose isn't his favorite, but in my opinion, she is in character. *shrugs* Don't worry, she gets several moments of pure awesome later on. Even the characters you can tell he doesn't like as much are treated fairly.
It took him two years to write/draw the whole thing. By the end, his art has evolved and he has the likenesses pegged brilliantly.
So far most of Ace has been Ace bitching at Rose, which makes me sad 🙁 I want Ace just being awesome! Not Hi-I'm-saying-what-the-author-thinks-about-Rose.
Oh, you'll see. Ace is definitely awesome in this. 🙂
jumping in a bit late to say yes, Ace definitely is awesome in this. As is Rose. All are awesome in this awesome piece of awesomeness.
I've read the whole thing six times. I bet if I read it sixteen more times, it would still be awesome.
I started reading it months and months ago and stopped because I wasn't as a Rose fan, I wasn't big on her characterization and it bugged me. Then a few weeks ago I randomly decided to give it another go and I DID NOT REGRET IT. Not to spoil for anyone who plans to read it but Ace and Rose ended up being two of my favorite things about it and I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about.
Plus it actually made me tear up a few times there. And it's hilarious. And so much continuity porn and an epic plot and now I want to read it again.
I can't say for sure, obviously, because I've only read a small portion of them, but I'd be willing to bet it's better than any of the published comics.
The initial Rose characterization turns a lot of people off, and I have to keep telling them "But… but… so awesome… Must. Not. Spoil." I know exactly what you're referring to. 😉
Seriously, everyone, reading "The Ten Doctors" is one of the best ways to spend a lazy weekend. If you're a Rose fan, there are some truly touching scenes involving her. It will not disappoint.
Seriously! I'm so glad I gave it another go. Plus, when you think about it, her characterization in the comic is just fine. She reacted much the same way to Sarah Jane as he has her act here, and considering this takes place for her when she's traveling with Nine, that works. In the comic's universe it's her first experience meeting past companions, so yeah, of course she would react the same way she did in series two. Plus all of the characters experience their own sorts of growth in The Ten Doctors (another thing I love about it), so first impressions don't always stay that way.
If you're a Rose fan, there are some truly touching scenes involving her. It will not disappoint.
As a Rose fan I can attest to this fact. IT DOES NOT DISAPPOINT.
Plus all of the characters experience their own sorts of growth in The Ten Doctors (another thing I love about it), so first impressions don't always stay that way.
That's something I never realized. Now that I think about it, it's very subtle, but it's definitely there. Nyssa for one (I totally cheered at That Moment), Rose and Ace for sure, even Nine. And don't you think Four and Six's relationship was weirdly heart-warming?
And don't you think Four and Six's relationship was weirdly heart-warming?
That's actually exactly what I was thinking of when I said that XD. To not spoil anything for those who haven't read, I'll just say, the scarf.
D'awwww, the scarf! :3
http://comics.shipsinker.com/?id=193
I definitely disagree with you here, which I wasn't going to say since I know that lots of fandom agrees with you, but:
"Hmm…. I dunno, Talisha. I mean, sure, Rose was a sweetie and supportive and lovey and all… until she ran up against some evidence that she wasn't the only woman in the Doctor's life. Then she turned into the hellbitch. I really think I'm writing her true to form. Unless she comes up against some out-of-character realization that she's not the center of the universe." –quote from the author Rich, pg 35
People seem to overshadow all of series 2 with the episode where she's irritated that he hadn't mentioned his other companions. Cause, well. A bazillion companions and he never mentions it? Is that how all the companions end up? Forgotten? I was of course angry right with her.
Blah, sorry. I am a Rose fan, obviously. But I still have yet to see anyone I know who has recently seen series 2 (without fandom interfering with their judgement) get this opinion. It's so sad to me that everyone Whovian hates Rose so much.
You have a point, what with this being Season 1 Rose. Still, I think in this particular situation she would be acting jealous and angry, perhaps not to the extent that Rich portrays.
Nevertheless, you should keep reading. Rose will shed her "School Reunion" characterization soon enough. And everything from then on is awesome. 🙂
I'm not that familiar with the comic, but it does seem like Rose's character is overdone at the beginning of it, even if I'm not really a Rose fan. But I do want to respond to your comment:
A bazillion companions and he never mentions it? Is that how all the companions end up? Forgotten? I was of course angry right with her.
…
But I still have yet to see anyone I know who has recently seen series 2 (without fandom interfering with their judgement) get this opinion.
But in the ep, that's reason for her to be mad at the Doctor and not jealous of SJS. So I definitely hated that they went there with her character, and with SJ (where it seemed entirely out of character, from what I know of her). So from that ep, it did seem like Rose was getting angry at not being the Doctor's one and only, not that he kept stuff from her.
"It's so sad to me that everyone Whovian hates Rose so much. "
Please don't go there, you know it's not true. And people can legitimately dislike characters that you like – it doesn't have to be because you think their opinion is somehow skewed.
Okay, well. What I meant is that it's so sad to me that only Whovian people hate Rose so much. Not that all Whovians hate Rose, but only those who are involved with the fandom do. This is my judgement from my experience with the entire breadth of my Doctor Who-watching circle not associated with the fandom loving Rose.
After watching discussions here on MarkWatches, I have formed the opinion that a lot of the Rose hate is due to many people blowing small moments out of proportion, IE, allowing those moments to overshadow other many selfless/non-clingy/whatever acts that Rose does during her tenure. I'm not saying everyone who hates Rose is in this group, but I have seen it often. You've got to admit those that dislike any time she's on screen have some feelings disproportionate to the amount of Rose bitchiness there really is.
I'm sorry, I didn't really mean to start a Rose argument again. Rich just irritated me with his comment and I thought I'd bring it up. Since it is apparent the author is pretty biased.
I basically regard this blog as a discussion forum, so I have no qualms with you having brought up your points in the first place, and indeed I do think the author's biases are showing, so I'm glad you posted that quote.
I just don't like your generalizations of non-Rose fans. Which you're still doing: "Not that all Whovians hate Rose, but only those who are involved with the fandom do." That's patently not true, but even if it were, it's still possible to form opinions on one's own, then to become a part of fandom and express those exact same opinions without influence from others.
Okay. I guess then, here is my question:
I do a Google search for 'best Doctor Who companion' (Mark don't do this, obviously, spoilers) and I consistently see various UK and nonUK websites list Rose as number 1 or number 2. Why?
I understand that I'm making a generalization, but I also understand from what I have seen it seems like there are quite a large amount of people who consider her to be the 'best'. Which has various definitions, but in general people who think she is the best are because they don't hate her. And maybe that is biased because many people who are voting did not see OldWho and therefore aren't going to know Peri from Ace (I barely do) but in most of those actual polls (vs. blog author opinions) are other NewWho companions who don't rank as high.
So my question is, why does everyone outside of MarkWatches love Rose so much? And why do so many who are reading MarkWatches hate Rose? And why was I and a few others of us so flabbergasted that so many people here expressed such a loathing for the character that seems to, in general, be so popular?
One explanation that's possible is what you are saying, that they individually came up with this opinion and that MarkWatches just happened to get a disproportionately large amount of the negative population. The other explanation is that there are a lot of people out there who joined the fandom, saw the Rose hate, and decided to jump on the bandwagon. Because how easy is it to decide that you won't like something very popular and then take the time to blow out of proportion all of the negative aspects of that thing and point them out?
I know people who hate Harry Potter because Jo Rowling is too rich (? how does that even make sense!) and HP is too well liked and I know people who hate Twilight on the simple fact that so many people like it (whereas I have a legitimate reason for disliking Twilight– IE, I read it and formed an opinion based on the way the characters were portrayed). It happens lots, all the time. I think it's happened with Rose.
I respect that you don't like Rose for legitimate reasons, but I also think it's fair to make the generalization that it is mostly members of this fandom that dislike Rose because of the bandwagon issue.
The analogous conclusion to your HP and Twilight analogy is for people to dislike Doctor Who, the show/franchise.
I would imagine the people that do watch the show, analogous to your "I read it and formed an opinion based on the way the characters were portrayed," would probably also have legitimate reasons for disliking a character on a show they like and are a fan of, just as you have legitimate reasons for disliking Twilight.
Seriously, people have explained on various places across the internet, why they do not like certain things. I don't understand why you don't take people's explanations at face value, but instead assume it's a bandwagon thing.
If you are taking their explanations at face value, and are only talking about people who don't give a reason for disliking Rose, then I really haven't seem them on Mark's blog, anyway.
So I don't consider your generalization fair.
Hey, I know you've ignited some discussion here and it might be a little stressful to have a lot of people engaging with you, but I have a couple of things I want to throw in here.
I, personally, don't see the Mark Watches crowd as being biased against Rose. If anything, I feel like this is one of the few places I've seen where so many different opinions co-exist without sections of the fandom trying to beat dissenting opinions down. I mean, you've got Karen here and her love of Rose as a character, and looking at the points she's accrued and the posts of agreement in her threads– I think that at least shows a strong following for Rose around here. I've seen people state that they don't care for what's been done with Rose in such and such an episode, or they're not particularly a fan of the romantic plotline she's involved in, but I can only recall a few posters that have talked about hating Rose, and they certainly aren't the vocal majority.
I don't think Rose is the "best," but I don't hate her either. I liked her very much in the beginning, but since I've continued to watch other companions have garnered more affection from me. That's a personal preference.
I think, unlike Mark, we come to this arena without that precious innocence. We have interacted with other corners of fandom, and each interaction shapes how we ourselves think, and how we view others who don't think like us. We've all come across safe places for our opinions, and places where we've felt victimized. I, honestly, never saw the descriptor "clingy" ascribed to Rose by anyone here, and when people have defended against a trait no one around here claimed her to have, my first instinct was to get my back up about it. But then I'd take a step back and realize that no one was saying anything about me or directly addressing anyone else here- they were reacting pre-emptively to criticisms they'd seen elsewhere in fandom. And you know what? That's fine. We're all going to do that to some extent, because we feel passionate about Doctor Who and this is a place to express our passions, defend our opinions, etc etc.
As long as we don't spoil Mark, we're given the space to express our views here. And seriously, this has been one of the nicest places to do it. No one's going to tell you your wrong for your opinion, though they might ask you to explain it- and you are free to ask them to explain theirs, too. Go ahead and ask the next person you feel is hating on Rose why they feel that way- I don't think their answer is going to be "because everyone else does."
[img src =http://www.gifsoup.com/view/1057347/snape-clapping-o.gif]
This is a good comment and you should feel proud!
Omg, that is amazing. And appears to be just shoving in EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER APPEARED IN THE SERIES.
THE TEN DOCTORS!!!! "J£ASDLKJASD:ALWK:ALSDK:LASDK:LS!!!
It's AWESOME, Mark, you should totally read it!
"Mind the Host, Richard!"
"Minding the Host…"
Mr Copper is also one of my favourite characters in British television ever, Richard Bucket! (pronounced Bouquet!)
Tbh, I am sad that there isn't more Richard Bucket love in the comments. lol. I grew up watching Keeping Up Appearances with my parents on our local PBS station as a kid. ~Fond Memories~
Keeping Up Appearances was always on PBS with my parents, so I adore it. I still have a dvd set for whenever I need a Rose, Onslow, or Emmett fix!
My guess is that Richard took off with the Doctor to get away from Hyacinth.
Ditto 😀
First time I saw this episode, I paused it almost as soon as it started so I could FB my daughter (who is a huge Leo/Kate Winslet Titanic fan). I quote: "OMG! David Tennant…On the Titanic….IN FUCKING SPACE!!!!"
The only thing that could have topped it was if Rose had still been his companion. Rose…on the Titanic…with the Doctor…IN FUCKING SPACE!!! How awesome would that be???
Okay, I'm late to the party, but I have a LOT to say about Time Crash –
1. It was written by Steven Moffat. Moffat is so well-known for his stories tapping into childhood fears, but it amazes me that he doesn't get as much notice for the absolutely hilarious lines he can come up with (this is the man that gave us "wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey," after all). "Two-minutes to Belgium," "I'm the Doctor, I can save the universe with a kettle and some string. And look at me, I'm wearing a vegetable" – c'mon, that is comedic GOLD! Five will forever be known as "The One with the Celery" because of this episode 🙂
2. The meta in this episode is simply heartwarming. I can only imagine the complete fannish glee on set when Peter Davison was in his Doctor costume – not just from David Tennant, but also from RTD and Steven Moffat and the rest of the crew that grew up watching the show. Shoot, the first time I watched this, I was grinning like an idiot and I'd never seen any Classic Who, though I was inspired to look up some episodes from Peter Davison's era – and I've seen nearly everything he's in. His stuff is that good (haven't seen "Caves of Androzani" yet, so Mark reviewing it tomorrow will be a good excuse to get on that). I am seriously jealous of everyone who is going to the Gallifrey convention this weekend because Davison is going to be there and I think it would amazing to meet him in person.
3. I would rank "Time Crash" as one of my ten favorite episodes in New!Who. So much love for one of the shortest offerings of the series. I could gush about it for hours (at least, I could watch it for hours on end and never get enough of it).
And then… "Voyage of the Damned" … sigh… I understand that one of the big traditions in the UK at Christmas was to watch disaster movies (that was what was shown on TV – something like that). This episode is a nod back to that tradition, but it's really the weakest of the DW Christmas specials, IMHO. I don't mean to rain on the parades of those who enjoyed it, but it's just not my favorite. It's not terrible, per se – it's just that there are other episodes I would rather re-watch.
OMG STAR WARS! I have been thinking about it *forever*…but in star wars when they go to rescue han off the ship and people fall off into the sand AND THE SAND MONSTER EATS THEM! (why did it take me so long to remember there is an awesome scene where the bag guys get eaten by the earth?)
When the hosts fly Ten up, that pretty much sealed in my opinion that Ten has a major Jesus Complex. Not that I wasn't fairly sure before, but…it's hard to argue with angels flying the hero somewhere.
Seriously, though, the only thing I ever remember about this episode when it gets mentioned is, "ALONS-Y, ALONSO!"
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