In the second episode of the third series of Doctor Who, Shakespeare and Harry Potter collide and nothing else in the world matters. Ever. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
This episode isn’t particularly staggering in execution, nor is it that frightening, but good lord, it is a whole lot of fun.
I’ve said before how much I really love the episodes of Doctor Who that travel back in time and suggest an alternative explanation to events in history. So here’s me being a broken record: I really like the idea that Love’s Labour Won was actually sucked into a void with the Carrionites, who tried to embed a code to open a portal into this world and allow their kind to annihilate the earth. Maybe I’m just a fan of that sort of ridiculous story telling in general, but in general, “The Shakespeare Code” is ambitious as hell, and I appreciate that.
I say “in general” on purpose. I don’t think these scripts are meant to be fine-tuned in the same way other forms of fiction are. Pointing out plot-holes or unexplained turns would sort of render this whole project kind of boring and tedious if I went in that direction, so I am mostly ok ignoring them. MOSTLY. This is one of those times where once I thought about the story, I noticed there were a lot of weird holes in it, but all in all, traveling back in time to find out what happened to Shakespeare’s lost play was pretty damn fantastic.
Martha Jones proves to be a much different companion than Rose and the Doctor doesn’t shy away from pointing this out. I felt bad for Martha because it’s clear she’s stepped into some difficult shoes to fill for the audience and for the Doctor. Is it a stretch to say that the Doctor vocalizes what a lot of the fandom felt as she was introduced? I thought it was pretty rude of him to say, “ROSE WOULD HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT, GOSH” to here. (In his own way, of course.)
I don’t know, it’s a difficult situation all around. Surely he recognizes how much quicker Martha is to believe in the absurd things she is introduced to, right? Hopefully this isn’t continued beyond the next few episode.
The script for “The Shakespeare Code” is a lot more dense with jokes and references than usual, which is saying a lot for Doctor Who. Even right from the get-go, Gareth Roberts, who wrote this episode, references race relations as a way to identify an obvious point: how can Martha, a person a color, simply walk around London in 1599? (My heart swelled during this scene YOU ARE FIERCE AND AWESOME, MARTHA JONES).
I’m sure this episode also ticked off a bunch of Shakespeare purists with it’s HILARIOUS portrayal of the famous bard. There’s no way it’s even remotely accurate and I DO NOT CARE. EVER. I enjoy that Doctor Who can be both referential and silly about it’s portrayal of public figures throughout history, and this particular episode has quite a few running jokes about famous Shakespeare lines, Harry Potter nerdery, a great Back to the Future reference, and the ongoing joke that Shakespeare wasn’t quite as poetic and verbose when you actually spoke to him. Does it detract from the general plot? Not really, though I was more interested in the conversation than most of the Carrionite story most of the time. It was nice to have a plot that wasn’t so doom-and-gloom throughout and highlighted the witty writing I’ve come to enjoy from this show.
There’s a lot of little stuff I loved in this episode, so let’s just move on to that:
THOUGHTS
- Best line of the episode? “Come on! We can have a good flirt later!” “Is that a promise, Doctor?” “Oh, fifty-seven academics just punched the air.” a;sdkfjas;lkdfj asf;fklkldfs;j asf;fdkjas;dlkdfkls;j BRILLIANCE.
- “It’s like in those films: if you step on a butterfly, you can change the future of the human race.” “Then don’t step on any butterflies! What have butterflies done to you?”
- “So, magic and stuff? It’s a surprise, it’s all a bit Harry Potter.” “Wait till you read book seven. Oh, I cried.” I LOVE YOU FOREVER, DOCTOR, BECAUSE I TOTALLY CRIED TOO.
- “The play’s the thing. And YES, you can use that.”
- I love that the psychic paper didn’t work on Shakespeare. Which brings me to my next point:
- Watching the Doctor fan-out all over Shakespeare was probably funnier than him nerding out over Dickens.
- “Rage, rage, against the dying of the light…” “I might use that.” “You can’t. It’s someone else’s.”
- “Good old J.K.!” OH GOD I LAUGHED SO HARD.
- So, the Carrionites…do they just appear as witches? I’m not sure I understood their species at all. But they were definitely alien, just….witch-like?
- I liked that the voodoo doll things were actually DNA replication modules.
- So did this episode chronologically take place before the Doctor met Queen Elizabeth in “Tooth & Claw”? I was unsure why he said he had never met her yet when he clearly had. [AUTHOR’S EDIT: OH. OK. IT’S BECAUSE HE DIDN’T MEET QUEEN VICTORIA. OOPS.]
- I could not even count how many Shakespeare references there were in the dialogue of this episode. Too many! Bravo.
(He met Victoria in Tooth & Claw; not Elizabeth I.)
Oops. I changed it!
I really couldn't wait for you to watch this one for all the Harry Potter references in the episode!
"I say to thee….EXPELLIARMUS!"
Just to say, in Tooth and Claw, The Doctor meets Queen Victoria, not Elizabeth I; the latter reigned before the former.
queen Victoria in tooth and claw? Also, you probably realise, but the book 7 reference is at a time when the whole country was waiting for it!
A friend of mine, who is hugely into Harry Potter, just watched this episode last week, and I had to explain that part of the joke was that no one had read Book 7 yet. Not that crying during Book 7 wasn't to be expected or anything, but still. 😀
Not only that, but dude– Shakespeare saving the world with "Expelliarmus"? Harry saving the world with "Expelliarmus"? RTD IS TOTES TRELAWNEY TRUFAX.
The whole country? More like the whole world! The HP7 reference was AGONIZING OMFG. This was originally aired in the spring before it came out yeah? I remember because I went away to this crazy Japanese language brainwashing summer camp for two months and promised myself no English-language media—which meant putting the climax of series 3 of DW on hold—but for the love of GOD did I ever sneak a contraband copy of HP7 in!
The Queen in “Tooth and Claw” was actually Queen Victoria, not Elizabeth. /Ted
I… totally didn't make these special for today. No, not at all. >.>
<img src="http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5075/book7.gif">
<img src="http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8409/expelliarmus.gif">
<img src="http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4605/goodjk.gif">
😀
BRILLIANCE AND A HALF.
EXCELLENT gifs!
THESE ARE GOOD GIFS AND YOU SHOULD FEEL GOOD!
These are amazing and you are amazing. 😀
These beat my many old jpeg from mrhp. By miles. Hats off, good Lady (or Sir). Hats off.
<img src="http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac307/mildlyconfused/unprepared_doctah.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
is that….two monocles. on top of glasses.
It's a jeweler's magnifying glass set! You can clip them onto your own glasses and then adjust them down depending on what you are trying to do.
Or, if you're into steampunk, you can attach them to your glasses/goggles and look freaking fantastic.
DO WANT.
I LUV YOU!
Yeah, we're totally gonna have to break these out in 'Mark Re-reads Harry Potter'.
Yeah, overall I think the plot was a bit meh.
But, GOD it was quotable.
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/NMbd6.gif>
YES!!!!!
OH GOD, ALL THE TEARS.
Amazing!
Brilliant.
I love how the Doctor has been through time and space, seen the fall of planets, whole civilisations, his own people and world wiped out in a terrible war…
and the 7th Harry Potter book still made him cry. :D:D:D
I remember watching this on tv and thinking OH NOES THE LAST BOOK IS GOING TO BE TO BE SO GORRAM SAD.
I also love how he totally uses his awesome universe-twisting time travel powers to go and read the last Haryy Potter book. I mean…wouldn't we all? 😉
I watched this after having already read DH, but I WOULD TOTALLY use a TARDIS to go catch up on Harry Potter.
What is funniest to me is that when I think about it I realize it probably wasn't actually Ten in particular who read Harry Potter and cried. But it is way easier for me to imagine Ten reading DH and crying than, like, Four, so I generally assume this is what he did between Runaway Bride and Smith and Jones — caught up on Harry Potter.
I like that theory. 😀
A flawless theory, really.
Indeed!
Ten is such a Potter fan, he went and put himself in the movie.
LOLOL YES
Best. Gif. EVAH.
I can just… stop using the internet now. It doesn't get much better. Farewell, friends
FABULOUS
OWO
<333333333333333
This is STUNNING
This is one of my favourite episodes (hence the two and a half pages of notes I made while watching the other day) and probably the one I was most looking forward to you seeing Mark (mostly for all the Harry Potter love). It's not perfect I'll admit but it's just fo much FUN that I can overlook the plotholes.
Martha is made of win throughout, she's so excited about being in the past and going to see Shakespeare.I do have one teeny tiny nitpick though, surely she should have known what Bedlam was. I do love that she got to take a bow with Shakespeare after defeating the Carrionites.
Dean Lennox Kelly is just so much FUN as Shakespeare. This episode and FAQs About Time Travel have given me a bit of a soft spot for him. Shakespeare is so much fun and totally awesome, working out about the Doctor and Martha.
Christina Cole is obviously having a LOT of fun playing Lilith, and it's absolutely wonderful to watch.
I love how tied into Shakespeare's work the story is, with the missing play and little quotes and references throughout the episode.
(splitting for length)
Got to love the meta of Ten talking about how the theatre is magic.
"small wooden box with all that POWER inside" Okay I'm probably just seeing things now but that delivery of power felt very Jeremy clarkson to me.
As with The Impossible Planet there's a music cue that pops up throughout the episode, when Lilith makes Shakespeare write the end of the play and later when they visit Peter Street, that I really love.
All hail JK Rowling. Saving the world centuries before she's even born. Love Ten's summation of Deathly Hallows "Ohh I cried." Didn't everyone?
Hee, the Carrionites are basically trapped in a snowglobe.
"So did this episode chronologically take place before the Doctor met Queen Elizabeth in “Tooth & Claw”? I was unsure why he said he had never met her yet when he clearly had."
We know as much as Ten does about why Queen Elizabeth hates him in this episode, basically, we haven't got a clue. She just does.
I love the, "Oh, I cried" bit. Because, one, well, the Doctor's read Harry Potter (eeeee!), and two, it so wasn't a stretch to think there'd be crying thanks to DH, but it still feels really fresh and awesome.
"small wooden box with all that POWER inside"
This makes me think of the TARDIS too.
I've only seen until about a third of the way through Series 3, but so far this is one of my favorite episodes because I am a giant lit nerd, and the (very witty) dialogue is filled to the brim with literature references. It's not only Shakespeare and Good Old JK, but also a little bit of Dylan Thomas thrown in for good measure.
I loved the bit about "57 academics punch[ing] the air," as well as the implication that, apparently Martha is the oft-speculated about "Dark Lady." And, you know, the Doctor feeding Shakespeare a bunch of his own lines.
This is the perfect episode for lit nerds, basically.
"small wooden box with all that POWER inside" Okay I'm probably just seeing things now but that delivery of power felt very Jeremy clarkson to me.
———————————————–
I'm now imagining the TARDIS on Top Gear and LOLING FOREVER
Imagination not required: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N77GAsv8X-Q there's a few spoilery clips in there but they're quick and pretty vague actually.
ahahah brilliant.
Yeah, I think this and FAQATT are enough to make me go, "Ooh, Dean Lennox Kelly is in whatever this thing is? I should check it out."
The thing about the companions, and I thought about this while re-watching last night, is that sometimes they need to know less than they should as a way to get things explained to the audience. A necessity of writing, to get expositive points across. It's just a shame when that sometimes goes against character. :/
I liked Christina Cole so much in this episode that I watched Hex. That was… interesting… But yay Michael Fassbender, at least?
"I do have one teeny tiny nitpick though, surely she should have known what Bedlam was."
I didn't rewatch this episode with Mark so I didn't get a full refresher on the list I once had of Things Martha Should Have Known, but, yes, that was one of them. Besides that 'bedlam' is now a synonym for 'chaos' or, basically, people going nuts that was a given. I mean, she's training to be a doctor, I don't mean to be snarky but I always felt that she should have been more educated than she made herself out to be in some of the episodes. =/
"she should have been more educated than she made herself out to be"
But that's the writers' fail, not the character's.
But the writer brings out the character or at least guides them. Also, this wasn't the only episode in that something she said made me stop and give her the side-eye. It's not to say I dislike her, I just like her better once she's "older."
That's the writers more than Martha. I think it's just one of those things that gets sacrificed to deliver information to the audience. :
There's always a balance between failing to give the audience enough information and giving characters `fake` dialogue that they wouldn't realistically need to say in that situation.
Bedlam is what the "hospital" named Bethleham was slurred and mispronounced into. Most people dont know the etiology of the term "bedlam" as a cacophany of sound due to those that were sent to Bedlam were the mentally ill. Seriously, it was the 16th century what else would they do with paranoid schizophrenics or alzheimers or bipolar??
…I know?
Well I *didn't* know. Not before I saw this, and like Martha I have a Universiy science education, albeit not medical. So I don't thik it's odd at all that Martha had to be told.
This episode combines the two most awesome things in the universe. Oh, and Shakespeare’s there too. I kid, I kid. Shakespeare really did use the word Sycorax in “The Tempest.”
Remember this Mark? I don’t remember who made it, but I have been waiting for you to get here since the time this was posted.
The amazing thing is that this was written and aired before Book 7 came out, so the use of expelliarmus in the conclusion of DH would not have been known, although expelliarmus had already been important to the plot of the other books.
And since I miss talking about HP
I didn't realize Shakespeare actually used Sycorax! Nice catch!
And I don’t think my pics worked 🙁 that’s what over for trying to post from my iPhone.
I remember seeing "The Christmas Invasion" and I kept thinking the name "Sycorax" sounded familiar. Then I remembered reading "The Tempest" in college and I started giggling about it.
This episode is so much stinking fun – I love it!
Sycorax was the name of a witch in The Tempest. It's also a moon of Uranus, because they're all named after Shakespere characters. So an alien race invaded our solar system, a Time Lord mentioned their name to a writer in the past, his work became influential, which resulted in the aliens invading a system with a moon named indirectly after them. Head splode.
This post makes no sense when you can't see the pics that went with it. One was the one posted up above with the Doctor saying he cried reading HP, and the other was just a Dumbledore dancing gif.
This episode just FILLS ME WITH JOY! My heart swells three sizes when they all say EXPELLIARMUS and the doctor is all "Good ol' JK!"
Shakespeare was purrrrrrrdy 🙂
Loved the "done rub it, you'll go bald" bit! oh and the neck brace!
Ack! Just this episode! Fabulousness!
EDIT: Others have mentioned the fact that DH hadn't even come out yet but I don't think anyone mentioned the fact that we didn't even know what it would be called, iirc, which is why he says Book 7 and not Deathly Hallows 🙂
Editagain: sorry that was totally wrong, I was thinking of something else!
"Shakespeare was purrrrrrrdy"
He really was.
Right, I look like a complete prat now, but I was right the first time! The title for DH was announced december 21st of 2006 and this episode was filmed in august of 2006 🙂 So the episode aired in April 2007before the book came out but after we knew the title, however they didn't know the title at the time of filming and writing. OKAY- DONE LOOKING STOOPID NOW!
Up voted for getting there in the end. 🙂
Haha! Don't mind me everyone, I'll just stand in the corner and talk nonsense till I eventually get it right 🙂
Well, you know what they say about monkeys with typewriters writing Shakespeare! 🙂
I love the Harry Potter reference because at that time the seventh book hadn't come out yet, suggesting he had traveled to read it in the future 😀
That's my favorite line too!!
Dude. I am a hardcore Shakespeare lover. I got my degree in it. I work in the education department of a Shakespeare theatre. I know the minute details of the world of early modern theatre like the back of my hand. And I freaking love this episode. It hits all of my geekdoms so hard, how could I not? And I would so prefer to think of my beloved Will as this kind of guy rather than as some stodgy, be-pedestaled poet with his head in the clouds all the time. Nah. He was a pragmatic businessman (and a bit of a horndog) as much as he was a verbal and creative genius.
Also the Book 7 line is even more genius when you remember that this episode aired before that book was released. 😀
I so agree with you on fave line from the episode, though. I about fell out of my chair laughing the first time. And still whoop with delight on re-watches. 😉
(And that was Queen Victoria in Tooth and Claw, not Elizabeth I — as I'm sure someone else will have pointed out by the time I stop fangirling and get this posted).
May I just ask…
….Did you punch the air?
This.
TOTALLY did. ;D
I swear, these posts appear at the most ridiculous times! Today it is hours later, but just as I'm walking out the door to go home. And I HAD SO MUCH TO SAY! Another episode that I absolutely love. Since I'm a huge Shakespeare fan, it isn't a surprise – and the actor playing Shakespeare (who I don't think I know from anywhere) does a great job at making it a memorable character in the series. Who cares if it is not historically accurate? It portrays a great person in a light that makes them seem palatable to the masses!!
– Oh, fifty-seven academics just punched the air. – Love this.
– Also absolutely love all the little Shakespeare references littered throughout – and I LOVE the Dylan Thomas reference they throw in there!
– Martha is brilliant in this. I love her reactions to the different time, how she reacts to the racial commentary, and just in general how intelligent and logical she is. She works well with the Doctor!
Maybe I'll find time to read the review and add more when I get home, but I must be off!
Second Dylan Thomas reference in NuWho (the other being "rude and ginger"). Loved it, taunting Shakespeare with "you can't have that!"
Welsh production, Welsh writers, Welsh poet… Who would have expected that?
I love this episode so much. And Martha, because she's clearly kind of a nerd.
<img src="http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfplp7EYWP1qaevcvo1_500.png">
<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_3lVOb8wvDlE/TUM8geRfDII/AAAAAAAABLs/aTQ2P0N9-cI/expelliarmus.gif">
I mean, what else is there to say? SO MUCH AWESOME.
FUCK YEAH, MARTHA JONES!
Martha Jones saves the world using Harry Potter. BEYOND AWESOME.
Martha Jones is wonderful.
I mean, she is enough of a Harry Potter nerd to not only reference it, but to be able to whip out "expelliarmus" in a life-or-death situation. AWESOME.
Martha would excel at Hogwarts!
She would definitely be a Ravenclaw.
Nuh uh! She's a total Hufflepuff!
NO THAT IS MICKEY SMITH
and others who I can't name because they haven't done their thang or been particularly good finders yet.
THEY CAN BOTH BE IN HUFFLEPUFF.
I just don't get the impression that Martha learns for the sake of learning. To me it reads like she's a doctor because she wants to help people.
I still think though that her cleverness and rationale and intelligence is the most defining trait for her. Like yes she wants to help people, but she goes about it in a very…. smart… way. I mean, she winds up on the moon and her first thought is "how are we breathing?"
I guess that could make her more of a Hermione-esque Gryffindor, but I think since being brave is a requisite trait for someone travelling time and space it sort of gets nullified.
SORTING: SRS BSNSS.
lol. I have Very Serious Thoughts on where all the Doctor Who characters should be sorted. Ten is Ravenclaw. Rose is Gryffindor. Martha and Mickey are Hufflepuff etc etc.
But I really think that Martha's most defining quality is her dedication to her family and friends. lol. I have some examples, but… you know… spoilers etc. I WILL BRING THIS UP LATER THOUGH.
I agree. Martha's totally the emblem of Hufflepuffery at its finest.
Rose is a Gryffindor.
I think the Doctor, frankly, is the kind of good Slytherin that keeps them from disbanding the house. He VERY much uses his intellect and people to his own ends. Which are more often than not benevolent, but there is DEFINITELY that Slytherinish sinister side to the Doctor.
I have a macro that I so want to post wrt to Hogwarts houses and Doctor Who, but sadly it will have to wait.
I can totally see her as a Hufflepuff. Or a Gryffindor.
Hmm, the obvious first impression is Ravenclaw, but I'm actually leaning toward Gryffindor because she's so family oriented, such a leader in her family, willing to take charge in the face of risks she doesn't even understand.
I think Martha is definitely very brave — it is sort of a requisite companion trait, really — but I tend to think of Gryffindors as more dive-straight-in-head-first-ask-questions-later, like Rose, whereas Martha winds up on the moon and immediately asks "how are we still breathing?"
maybe you all are jumping the gun just a bit…. afterall, Neville's true Gryffindor nature didnt fly until a few years in, and really shone through in DH. To avoid any risk of possible spoilerishness, maybe we should wait til Mark gets caught up current with the current broadcast schedule? Im LOVING the conversation though and have stuff to add…. but I think the only fair conversation about Sorting into Houses can only be done with characters that are already dead: Kylie Minogue and the Slitheen lady and Lynda with a Y
I see your point and it is fair, I agree.
But I think you have your Christmas specials out of order, lol
so good
This is one of my all time favorite episodes! I actually posted a clip of it when you were reading Harry Potter, before you announced that you were going to watch Dr. Who, so I'm glad you didn't watch it, lol.
I am a HUGE Shakespeare fan, so this episode was really fun for me to watch. I couldn't care less about the accuracy, I just love how fun it was. And also, Hamnet, ahahahahahaha!
Mark, the episodes in the past are some of my favorites too. I keep starting to type things that are spoilers and having to backspace and start over … I think I'll just wait.
Ahh different queen Mark – he met Queen Vic in Tooth and Claw, this is Elizabeth I.
I love this episode, apart from the Doctor being such a dick to Martha. I know he is grieving for Rose but seriously, dude, Martha is a person with feelings and even if you cannot deal with the fact she clearly fancies you that is NOT an excuse to be rude. :/
Dean Lennox Kelly makes me so happy, I love him generally and I love him even more as Shakespeare, he's fabulous.
In srs news though I love this episode a lot, it combines SO MANY THINGS I LOVE — Shakespeare! Harry Potter! Doctor Who! ALL IN ONE. WONDERFUL.
It's also fun to keep in mind that this aired before Deathly Hallows came out. SO I MEAN… they didn't even know "expelliarmus" would end up ~saving the world in the book, too. Also, Ten and Martha hit up every release party y/y/y.
The Doctor is such a dick in the scene with Martha and the hotel room, though, and I say that as someone who generally loves Ten in large part because he is pretty flawed. But beyond the "Rose would know" thing, what kills me is that he doesn't sleep. Omg, he is taking up half the bed and causing all this awkwardness just so he can stare at the ceiling and write sad poetry in his mind. lol lol lol Ten, you are an asshole.
Wait, what? Timelords don't sleep? I always assumed they did… (by the way, not arguing or anything! It's just not something I ever realised)
I am not sure whether it's canon or not tbh, I think it's sort of dubious — I know for sure he says in one of the books that he doesn't, but lol, the books don't really count. It's definitely fanon though.
But even beyond that, if he hypothetically sleeps, he doesn't end up sleeping in this scene, he's just… laying there, taking up room on this tiny bed.
*iz moderately helpful*
"Gallifreyans needed less sleep than Humans, and could make do with as little as an hour. (DW: The Talons of Weng-Chiang, DWN: The Highlanders) " http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Gallifreyan_physiolo…
The more you know! I figured the fanon must have come from somewhere.
Sleep is for tortoises! 🙂
LOL. BUT THAT IS THE BEST PART. I am a terrible person because Ten's (often unwitting) assholery cracks me up sfm.
LOL plz, you know I love asshole Ten. But it is, like his rapidfire clothes-changing in Smith & Jones, something I only noticed after seeing this episode several times, and by then I was going LOL TEN LOL LOL.
Poor Martha Jones.
Speaking of rapid-fire clothes changing – and this has NOTHING to do with this episode – but I find the beginning of Rise of the Cybermen very distracting, because he is wearing black trainers with his brown suit (in preparation I suppose for the tux that he will wear later). It's something that I noticed on first viewing and cannot tear my mind from it every single time I watch it now.
Oh, even when it's witting, it cracks me up!! XD
Ten is SUCH a douchebag. OMG.
Rose was the raison d'etre for Ten, literally and figuratively, and without her he's really quite awful. He's "The Lonely God" but he wasn't really meant to be alone.
I mean, I honestly don't think he realizes what he's doing — he's too self-involved at this point, too lost in his own thoughts, to really pay much attention to how he's treating Martha. I don't think he's really even aware of how into him she is, because he's just not paying attention.
But yeah, he's still being an ass. And poor Martha is getting all these mixed signals and doing her best to ignore how mixed they are, lol.
Though again: WTF Martha? OMG WE GOT A ROOM AT THE INN TOGETHER, THAT MEANS WE'RE TOTALLY GOING TO DO IT. Yes, the man playing hot and cold with you constantly, comparing you to his ex-girlfriend* constantly, gets you a room together in the straightened circumstances of Elizabethan England, and not only do you take that as a sure sign that you're going to GET IT ON (cue the porn music!) but… you actually WANT to get it on with this douchebag?
Martha: So smart, so dumb.
*Yes Rose/Ten is canon, though I think "girlfriend" is a little off-key for a timelord/companion relationship even if they WERE lovers. And I know that there are those who prefer their own non-sexual interpretation, and more power to them. I'm calling Rose Ten's "ex-girlfriend" here because that's who she is from Martha's frame of reference.
"Martha: So smart, so dumb."
Dear Pot:
In a nutshell, that describes many reallly smart people and the state of their love/dating lives. Try watching The Big Bang Theory. Cliched, but sadly, also true.
Signed–
Kettle
But I don't get the impression that Martha is a socially hampered geek like the Big Bang Theory characters, rather that she's quite capable of dealing with people. I rather think she's more like a rom-com stereotype than a realistic portrayal of a smart person who is clueless in some areas of her life. But I'll just direct you to this comment rather than repeat myself:
http://markwatches.net/reviews/2011/01/mark-watch…
For some reason IntenseDebate really doesn't want me to follow that link, lol, it doesn't work. BUT anyway I have a lot of ~feelings about Martha buuuuuuuut most of them are spoilery so I am not sure how to reply D:
It's on page four!
Anyway yes I have more complicated feelings about Martha but, spoilers, yeah.
Plus they're coming at that scene from such a disparate points of view; from Ten's perspective Rose is someone he loved who has effectively died, as far as he's concerned, because he can never see her again. From Martha's perspective, Rose is some girl who presumably broke up with him and went home to her family, and he's still hung up on her.
There we all were waiting for Book 7 and the Doctor suggests he's read it and it made him cry!
There's a really funny outtake where Shakespeare's mobile phone goes off during a scene. Somehow it does fit with the way that he's portrayed.
Like the way that Martha is made to be the Dark Lady. Especially as that sonnet moves on to being about how bad breath doesn't matter when you're in love…
Wonder what he did to Liz One to cause such upset? 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
And then there's sonnet 137, which is *highly* uncomplimentary of the Dark Lady. Whoever she was, I sort of hope she couldn't read!
I see what you did there in that last line.
ETA: Must learn to insert images! D:
Like this? ^_^
<img src="http://knowyourmeme.com/i/681/original/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg">
yes! whats the code?
I missed yesterday and your first introduction to Martha, so I just wanted to take this opportunity to say that I love Martha Jones like burning and haters to the left.
<img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/33ts26e.jpg">
This episode is so much fun I don't care about the stupid parts.
Being Human gif!
Which just reminds me of how much of an arse Dean Lennox Kelly was on that show compared to how fun he is as Shakespeare.
A+ Nina gif! She's my favorite.
Shakespeare>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tully
Cannot upvote this enough.
Shakespeare is as Shakespeare does!
Oh Nina <3
A few short notes:
1. It's not the same Elizabeth. 😉
2. This aired, of course, more than three months before Harry Potter 7 was published.
3. Gareth Roberts loves his jokes. You can look forward to more funny episodes from him. 🙂
The same QUEEN of course. Aargh (shame). I'm not British either, though…
This episode features a lot of really great Doctor moments. We get a bit of Time Lord fail!Doctor which I love.
Martha Jones: Do you have to pass a test to fly this thing?
The Doctor: Yes, and I failed it.
Hee! I love it when the show remembers that the Doctor is a bit of a renegade Time Lord and that he wasn’t exactly the star pupil at the Academy.
"The Shakespeare Code" also contains douche!Doctor whom I love. As we saw from “The Christmas Invasion”, the Doctor is rude and not ginger. And now that Rose isn’t there to give him looks when he misbehaves, he is free to inflict his poor social skills and obliviousness on the world around him. Unfortunately Martha gets the brunt of the Doctor’s sensitivity fail this week.
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Martha: There’s not much room. Us two here, same bed. Tongues will wag.
Doctor: [completely oblivious to Martha] There’s such a thing as psychic energy, but a human couldn’t channel it like that- not without a generator. […] No… There’s something I’m missing, Martha, something really close. Staring me right in the face and I can’t see it. Rose would know. The friend of mine, Rose. Right now, she’d say exactly the right thing. Still, can’t be helped.
OUCH. Doctor you are such fail at interacting with people sometimes. It is true that Rose was good at observing things and she and the Doctor really meshed as partners, but what’s going on here is that the Doctor isn’t ready to move on from Rose. So he’s fixated on her and the past, and kind of pushes Martha away as a result. And Martha, in spite of her statement at the end of the last episode that she’s only into humans, is so clearly a bit swept off her feet by the Doctor and his charm.
There is also a nice combination of Rose!angst and emo!Doctor in the naming scene with Lilith.
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Lilith: Oh but your heart grows cold. A north wind blows and carries down the distant… Rose?
The Doctor: Oh big mistake! Because that name keeps me fighting!
Rose keeps the Doctor fighting. I love that. I also love that “Rose” is the name that Lilith uses to try and get power over the Doctor because it is the name that is closes to his heart(s). And the Doctor gets angry. You do NOT use Rose's name like that and expect to get away with it.
I also love that “Rose” is the name that Lilith uses to try and get power over the Doctor because it is the name that is closes to his heart(s).
This is my favorite part of the episode. I'm hardly a shipper at all in contrast with Gardner and Davies XD
NEVER STOP THESE COMMENTS, KAREN. I look forward to them every day.
Aww… I'm glad you like them! Sometimes I worry that I'm too obnoxiously opinionated, so I'm glad that you like to read my thoughts!
OMG ILU KAREN.
Also, in spite of my wondering WTF Martha is thinking in that hotel room, I love the episode too! After getting pissed off by Smith and Jones this one kept me watching…
When rewatching this episode, I still laugh at the EXPELLIARMUS ending. Good ol' JK! 😀
I was so waiting for you to get to this one! Here's what's so brilliant about it. I love Harry Potter and I'm not a huge fan of Shakespeare (there's like…one of his plays that I like. The rest, I can take or leave). I watched it with my best friend who hates Harry Potter (remind me why I'm friends with this person again?) and is a total nerd for Shakespeare (remember Mandela in 10 Things I Hate About You? Like that). And both of us loved the hell out of it. It doesn't matter if you hate HP or Shakespeare or if you love them with a fiery passion. It's just a damn fun episode. Plus, the idea of David Tennant, who was in Goblet of Fire, shouting GOOD OL JK! is kind of hilariously meta to me. And the 57 academics line makes me giggle forever.
That said, this episode isn't perfect (and I don't just mean the plotholes). The scene in the bed makes me actively uncomfortable. I get the motts (said friend's term for secondhand embarassment) watching it. While I suppose I can understand why the Doctor says the things that he does, it's not a side of him I particularly like to see. I wonder if he's truly as obtuse as he seems there–not recognizing that he's hurting Martha's feelings. If he does know he's hurting them, and says these things anyway, then he's callous, and if he doesn't know it, then he's obtuse. Either way, it's a lose/lose situation. (Note: I am not opposed to the Doctor having flaws, it's just one that makes me really uncomfortable.) And this episode further re-inforces my comment on the previous post: I dislike romance between a Doctor and Companion for this very reason: his feelings for Rose are now hurting Martha, and Martha's feelings for him are hurting them both and I personally feel that they detract from her otherwise awesome personality. I love Martha for who she is when the focus isn't on her obvious unrequited crush. The second there's attention there, I get so uncomfortable that I want to fastfoward until the awesome comes back in both of them.
It gets worse. Apparently, in the original screenplay, the Doctor was supposed to take off his jacket and get IN bed. Tennant veto'd it.
I honestly think that the Doctor here is so preoccupied with missing Rose at this point that he doesn't even notice Martha's feelings towards him. It's upsetting, because he's really pretty much leading Martha on, especially with the kiss in the first episode, and he's not even paying enough attention to realize this. I think he eventually figures it out, but it does take him an awfully long time.
Can't say much more without spoilers though, sadly.
Yeah, like I said, if he doesn't realize he's hurting her feelings, that makes him obtuse, which is a flaw, and that's fine, I mean, I wouldn't want him to be perfect, it's just the kind of flaw that makes me uncomfortable as opposed to say, his "Jesus Complex" that Ten is often described as having. That flaw doesn't make me uncomfortable, despite also being a flaw, same as his obtuseness to her feelings here.
Which isn't to say that it's…I don't know, bad writing or even a bad decision to have him react this way. I think it's fairly in character and I don't dislike it from that standpoint at all. Just…kind of hard to watch, you know?
Their mutual awfulness really is painful. What I don't understand is why Martha even WANTS the Doctor. I feel like in her circumstances I would back. the. fuck. away. from manic douchebag rebound guy. Even if he DOES have a time machine. Perhaps Martha has been too focused on her studies to get what's up with the Doctor?
I'd also probably make him sleep on the floor at the inn.
What I don't understand is why Martha even WANTS the Doctor
Hello? It's because HE LOOKS JUST LIKE DAVID FREAKING TENNANT and is brilliant and saved the world (from the platoon of judoon on the moon) AND has a time machine!!!!!!!!
Seriously. Is it so awful that Martha falls for a guy who is interesting an likable enough that we have decades of TV dedicated to following his story? That he offers her an opportunity to travel through time and space, that he was a cute guy seemingly flirting with her an episode ago?
Oh how awful.
No, it's not uncomfortable at all. I don't know if this comment was directed at me or someone else, but just to clarify (because I don't want anyone to be upset with me unless I actually give them a reason, lol), I'm not saying it's awful, or even a bad writing decision, it just makes me unbearably uncomfortable to watch and I wish the writers had chosen another direction for their interactions to take. But I can't say it's bad writing or anything, because I don't think it is. It's just really uncomfortable for me personally to watch.
Replying to self because that was supposed to be "No, it's not awful at all," not uncomfortable. It WAS uncomfortable, but it was NOT awful.
Some days, I should not type words.
Not a response to you, was mostly a response to electric ashera's "mutual awfulness" comment.
I think it's uncomfortable too, perhaps for different reasons, but I don't get people hating on Martha for having a crush, as seems to be the main criticism of her character both by commenters on this blog and general DW fandom.
Honestly, it's just that, for me as a viewer, a lot of Martha's reactions throughout this series are centered around how she feels about the Doctor and his being preoccupied with someone who's no longer there. She does some pretty cool things in her episodes, but they get swamped by that elephant in the room. IMO, she's far better away from Ten. I'm not sure that's what RTD intended, but it's what I saw.
Some fans really did not like Ten and Rose's mutual admiration society because that's not what they want from a Doctor/Companion relationship. Me, I don't want to see the unrequited thing that Ten and Martha had. Just..so awkward and unsympathetic on both their parts. YMMV, as always.
IMO, she's far better away from Ten. I'm not sure that's what RTD intended, but it's what I saw.
I'd like to comment on that (by agreeing with you), but to say what I want to say, I'd be spoiling Mark. So instead I will just say: I hope we can continue this conversation at a later date.
Some fans really did not like Ten and Rose's mutual admiration society because that's not what they want from a Doctor/Companion relationship. Me, I don't want to see the unrequited thing that Ten and Martha had.
And some, like me, want neither. I much prefer completely 100% platonic relationships between my Doctors and Companions. I'm sure you can guess which companion is my favorite.
Confound these new YouTube embed codes but
GREATEST HAMLET.
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Shameless bragging: I got to see this production live when RSC was in London for its winter season a couple of years ago. IT WAS MAGNIFICENT.
SO DID I 😀 AND YES IT WAS
As Pythons would say: You lucky, lucky bastard… 🙂 I have it on DVD, but I wish I could've seen it live. Must've been an awesome experience.
I AM SO VERY JEALOUS. A friend of mine got to see Sir Ian McKellan do King Lear, and I HATE HER TOO.
… I got to see that production too.
heh.
ALTHOUGH, I kind of bought the tickets impulsively and didn't read any reviews before I went, so I was NOT prepared to see Ian McKellan's penis. OMG. I WAS NOT EXPECTING IT.
For some reason the when I tried to leave a comment before it needed to be ~approved by an administrator~, idek. ANYWAY, I saw that production of Lear too! (It's probs my favorite Shakespeare play, tbh) But I bought the tickets kind of impulsively, and didn't read any of the reviews before I left, so omg.
UNEXPECTED NAKED GANDALF WAS UNEXPETED. I was not prepared to see that much of Ian McKellan.
I love Lear so much. Oh I wish I was you, though naked Gandalf is not exactly my thing. 🙂
Ha, when I called my friend to tell her that a) I still hated her and b) OMG TELL ME EVERYTHING ABOUT THE PLAY she was like "So…Ian McKellan was naked." Not totally unexpected, as some productions do that, but yeah. I'M STILL JEALOUS.
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Gah! Is it wrong to be totes jealous of people I don't know?
I AM going to see David Tennant and Catherine Tate in Much Ado this summer,so I can content myself with that…
Exciting! I'll probably be seeing that too! I'm trying to get my friend who is coming over to London to visit me to pin down a date so that I can get tickets. SO EXCITE.
Me toooo omg so excite~.
I sadly won't be able to go, but I have to say that the mere fact that DT and CT are doing "Much Ado About Nothing" gives me so much to be happy about.
jealous!
omg – JEALOUSSSSSS!!! ^_^
SO JEALOUS.
I actually never saw this one somehow. I knew of it and kept MEANING to and never did. And my rewatch with a friend never got there… lol.
Regardless of and feelings about Martha I am sad I still haven't seen this one. D: It looks so fun.
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’57 academics just punched the air.’ *laughs and laughs and laughs* I'm pretty sure I was even doing a module on Shakespeare when this episode aired. I do love this Shakespeare because he's such fun (and also not bad looking) I love the fact the Doctor is being such a fanboy about Shakespeare, going on about what a genius he is and then ‘shut your big fat mouths’
I'm also intrigued by the power of words in this episode and that they're a type of math of their own. I don't think I've come across words used like that before and I really like it.
Ugh the bedroom scene.I love Martha but this is my problem with her, the Doctor and how they're written. It just makes them both look really bad. I can barely watch it. For Martha, the Doctor has said he’s not interested. For the Doctor, it’s not that he’s remembering Rose, it’s that he’s doing so in a way that’s detrimental to Martha. Whether he realises it or not he’s basically telling her that she’s not good enough.
That whole stepping on a butterfly thing would so be me, afraid the slightest thing would change everything but then I’d also wonder if things turned out okay because I’d been there and my present day already accounted for that history and so I should just act as I want. I like that she's cautious about the consequences of time travel and all the difference there are. I love that the Doctor shows her the similarities too.
‘When you get home you can tell everyone you’ve seen Shakespeare.’ ‘Then I can get sectioned.’
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‘Do you have to pass a test to drive this thing?’ ‘Yes and I failed it.’ He's just lucky that the TARDIS likes him enough to fly.
‘When you get home you can tell everyone you’ve seen Shakespeare.’ ‘Then I can get sectioned.’
I do love Martha's comebacks.
I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE that quote so much. Brilliant delivery.
Also the whole butterfly/grandfather thing. If it weren't for the witty lines in the episode, truth be told, I probably wouldn't have cared for it at all.
I'm also intrigued by the power of words in this episode and that they're a type of math of their own. I don't think I've come across words used like that before and I really like it.
This actually reminded me a lot of a plot on…another show, I wondered if it was inspired by that. But then a lot of scifi tv shows lift stuff from movies and comics so who knows.
Ugh the bedroom scene.I love Martha but this is my problem with her, the Doctor and how they're written. It just makes them both look really bad. I can barely watch it. For Martha, the Doctor has said he’s not interested. For the Doctor, it’s not that he’s remembering Rose, it’s that he’s doing so in a way that’s detrimental to Martha. Whether he realises it or not he’s basically telling her that she’s not good enough.
YES. Totally agreed.
‘Do you have to pass a test to drive this thing?’ ‘Yes and I failed it.’ He's just lucky that the TARDIS likes him enough to fly.
"It's better than scraping through with fifty-one percent on the second attempt."
LOL I <3 you, Romana.
For Martha, the Doctor has said he’s not interested.
I will say that absolutely, he said at the end of the last ep that he wasn't interested, but I think he was sending the opposite message in the rest of the episode, that I don't think badly of Martha at all for thinking she may still have a chance considering how he was pretty flirty when he met her.
Ugh the bedroom scene.I love Martha but this is my problem with her, the Doctor and how they're written. It just makes them both look really bad. I can barely watch it. For Martha, the Doctor has said he’s not interested. For the Doctor, it’s not that he’s remembering Rose, it’s that he’s doing so in a way that’s detrimental to Martha. Whether he realises it or not he’s basically telling her that she’s not good enough.
A THOUSAND TIMES YES.
Forsooth!
Egads!
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I love you three so much right now. So many +1
is it inappropriate to note that currently both our points are at 69 and I lolled 🙂
If you were a 6 and they were a 9, I would probably find the coincidence considerably more humorous.
This episode was bloody hilarious. I don't care what Shakespeare was actually like, this version of him was so much fun and fit so well into the story.
I wish Jack Harkness had gotten to come along and meet him. They'd have had SO MUCH FUN.
I wonder what Rowling thinks of being part of Doctor Who?
This episode made me a little uneasy about Martha – she's still awesome, but if they keep up this "Martha has a crush on the Doctor and the Doctor is totally oblivious and keeps saying how much he wishes Rose were still with him and breaking her heart" I'm going to reach through my screen and slap someone.
I think I remember reading somewhere that Rowling was meant to write and episode of Doctor Who or turned an offer down or just never got around to doing it or something.
I thought I read that they were going to do one with the Doctor meeting JK Rowling (played by an actress). I could have just made that up in my head though.
In Russel T Davies' book The Writer's Tale it's revealed that he had an idea for the 2008 Xmas Special where Rowling (herself) would be the Doctor's companion! The idea came to naught, though.
RTD asked her for the first series, and she said she was amused by the idea, but too busy writing Harry Potter.
"I wish Jack Harkness had gotten to come along and meet him. They'd have had SO MUCH FUN."
Oh that would have been amazing to watch.
Well, if Jack had been around we probably wouldn't have seen much of either of them for most of the episode, because Jack would have dragged Shakespeare off to bed and there they'd stay for pretty much the whole time.
This episode made me a little uneasy about Martha – she's still awesome, but if they keep up this "Martha has a crush on the Doctor and the Doctor is totally oblivious and keeps saying how much he wishes Rose were still with him and breaking her heart" I'm going to reach through my screen and slap someone.
You and me both.
Oh, I forgot to say, this is really the main reason I'm not able to fully love Martha. If she hadn't gotten an unrequited puppy crush on the Doctor and retained her badassery, I would bloody ADORE her. But it really annoys me (with Rose as well) when there's a romantic sub-plot between the Doctor and his companions. I get it. 10ant is a fine slice of man and infinitely clever. But that's sort of like me dating my History professor. SO STOP IT.
"Oh, I forgot to say, this is really the main reason I'm not able to fully love Martha. If she hadn't gotten an unrequited puppy crush on the Doctor and retained her badassery, I would bloody ADORE her."
YES YES THIS TIMES A BILLION.
Whoa, are you me? My thoughts EXACTLY.
They played the clip to her when she came on Blue Peter. She didn't saying anything, but she seemed amused. I'm sure she must have seen it before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAouj7qimbA
When Doctor Who was first being brought back, RTD asked Rowling if she'd like to write an episode. She said she was amused by the idea, but too busy writing Harry Potter. Of course, now she's finished with Harry Potter she might have time to write for Doctor Who. I live in hope.
Also, as was revealed in Russel T Davies' book, The Writer's Tale, for a couple of mad days he seriously considered writing a Christmas Special (2008) where where J. K. Rowling was attacked by a creature that made her imagination real, and the Doctor would have to fight his way though a world of sorcery and magical creatures to save her. Rowling (played by herself) would have effectively been the Doctor's companion. Like RTD wrote, they'd had Dickens and Shakespeare in DW, why should children believe that all great writers are dead? However, the idea lost steam as a) Tennant thought it sounded too much like a spoof b) It's not like they would have managed to get Rowling to do it anyway.
GREATEST.
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Aw this gif cuts off before my favourite moment, where he just *rolleyes* like, "Dude, you're not even worth me keeping this up."
LOL Omg yes that part is great. I did not make the gif so I will pass the blame off on whoever did.
I love this episode for the 'Expelliarmus!'. I will never not love it, it will always be brilliant and it will always make me squee. You know that feeling you get sometimes in a film or a TV show when there is a totally epic, triumphant moment and you tear up? This is one of those moments for me. As you said Mark, nothing else in the episode really matters because the dialogue is amazing and the characters shine.
See, I always took it that the pervasive image of witches – the hooked nosed hag – came *from* the Carrionites, not the other way around. So it's not that Carrionites are witch-like, but rather "witches" are Carrionite-like. Which is even cooler to me because that image of witches comes from Macbeth. It all ties in!
Writing Macbeth was well after when this play was set. Macbeth was written when James I (and VI) was on the throne, so it was important to play up James' ancestry (he was descended from Banquo and Fleance). In reality of course, Macbeth seems to have been one of Scotland's better Kings – the only one to manage a pilgramage to Rome. That doesn't in itself mean that he was a good bloke, but given that most Scottish Kings couldn't have a weekend away in Berwick without their thrones being at risk the fact that Macbeth spent nearly a year travelling form Court to Court across Europe and back, and was still King when he returned indicated that his realm was in reasonable order by Scottish standards.
Poor Martha though. Most of us would be confused by the mixed signals if a relaly hot bloke who'd earlier that day given her a really good snog then got into bed with her and NOTHING HAPPENED! That's rude!
Also, old King Duncan? Not so old, and killed in battle, which was a fairly legitimate way for MacBeth to take the throne at the time, since he had a claim to it through his wife, Gruoch. Macbeth ruled for 17 years, and was, as you say, not a bad king, on the whole. God, I love medieval history!
Doesn't Macbeth being written after this episode *add* to the theory that the witches in it were based on the Carrionites? Unless I'm misreading your slightly confusingly worded sentence there.
Well, that is Ten. He's rude. (and not ginger.)
I know it was well after, that was my point; it fits in that Shakespeare would portray his witches like that based on his experience with the Carrionites. Of course it was to fit in with James I's anti-witchcraft stance, but, still a fun idea!
They dressed me up like this!
She turned me into a newt!
…I got better!
I am sure a ton of people have jumped on this but this is LOOONG before tooth and claw. 🙂 Queen Victoria was the monarch in Tooth anc Claw (reign 1837 to 1902) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_victoria
Queen Elizabteh 1 is the Queen in this episode (Reign 1558 to 1603) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_I_of_Engla…
It's an easy mistake if you don't know much about British History- both are female monarchs in our almost exclusively male monarchy, both ruled over times of great social change and instabilty, and both were hard as iron- but they aren't the same person.
Also, both are the namesakes of their eras. 🙂
Yep! The Elizabethan era and the Victorian era.
Mreh, this episode. Okay, I don't hate it, and there is a lot to like here – Shakespeare, the concept of the Carrionites, Harry Potter and Back to the Future shoutouts, etc. It just unfortunately was dragged down for me by Ten's awful behavior to Martha. Look, dude, I understand that you're going through a rough patch here, but that does not justify treating her like this. Stop being a douche. Ugh.
Also not a fan of the "that name keeps me fighting" thing. I understand what she means to him, it's good the show hasn't forgotten about her completely, but I just don't care for Tennant's way of acting in scenes like that. Total personal preference.
I think you can still see his bite marks in the furniture…
Haha, yes. XD
The actors playing the Dr have always existed on a diet of HAM and scenery. Part of the charm 😉
"Would anybody like some…haaam?"
I'll just be over in the corner with my obscure Green Wing references…
WIN.
I feel kind of bad that something about angry 10 makes me laugh. I agree that line was kind of cheesy, though it's possible I wouldn't have thought so if it hadn't been overacted.
And he's a total douche to Martha of course, but that wasn't enough to bring down all the good in this episode for me.
Or basically, the doctor being a douche in every other episode can't really destroy my opinion of an episode anymore.
Yeah, I have a feeling I'd be better able to get past that if I rewatched it.
The bigger Tennant tries to get with his anger, the less convincing it becomes for me. So of course the scripts call on him to do BIG SHOUTY AND INTIMIDATING all the freaking time, which only detaches me from Ten because the intended effect is just. not. happening. If I'm not annoyed I mostly want to give him a cup of tea so he doesn't hurt his throat yelling like that.
Couldn't agree more, Ten's shoutiness does not work for me at all and just gets me annoyed.
I just feel bad that it's not working for him. 9 is a dude that always came across like you just DO NOT want to fuck with him, and when he was mad he didn't have to do much. 10 doesn't intimidate so easily.
Ten is SUCH a douche to Martha. The Doctor is Good (chaotic good? hello there nerd moment) but that doesn't mean he's Nice.
So much love for this episode, all the HP references are fantastic.
And yeah he was very rude and dismissive about Martha. I don't like witnessing him treating her like that, it's just wrong. DNW.
I love that Martha wanted to flog Love Labours Won lol
Her "that would be wrong" line is great. &Martha;
This episode combines two of my favourite things in the entire world: Harry Potter and Christina Cole.
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This is a win episode.
That Snape gif is hypnotic (doesn't help that I find Alan Rickman ridiculously attractive, either)…
Love for that last gif, omg.
Oh man Christina Cole…I quite Hex after she left.
I fell in love with her watching Jane Eyre from 2006, then she was A LESBIAN CAROLINE BINGLEY in Lost in Austen.
She's flawless.
She was so fabulous in Lost in Austen. I think I need to go rewatch now, actually.
I cry through the whole four part, because it's so sad in a good, non-sad way, but I'd STILL watch it without Darcy and Amanda just to get BAMF!Caroline.
Holy crap that last gif. I noticed who WASN'T in it before I figured out that was Joss.
That is a truly fabulous gif. That said, I could never figure out why the hell Tara was dressed like that in that episode. Was she on her way to a renaissance fair when she got sidetracked by the musical demon?
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I am a total, total Shakespeare fangirl. I saw my first play when I was five and have been geeking out over it ever since. So I LOVE THIS EPISODE. So much. Though I get slightly annoyed that the plays are shown as being performed at night. How are they lighting the stage, exactly? In Elizabethan England, plays were performed during the day. Oh well, not a big thing, I guess.
Mark quoted most of my favorite lines already ("Fifty-seven academics just punched the air" makes me laugh aloud every time). I totally love when the Carrionite girl faces off with the Doctor. "You might call that witchcraft, I call that a DNA replication module!" You're such a nerd, Doctor.
The Doctor is kind of being a dick again to Martha, though. The bit when they end up having to share a bed is just massively awkward. I don't know if he really doesn't get what mixed messages he's sending or if he's just pretending not to. With other incarnations, I'd say the former, but Ten usually understands human social interaction pretty well. "Rose would say the right thing." WELL SHE'S NOT ROSE NOW IS SHE?
If that's what happened to "Love's Labours Won", what happened to "Cardenio"? Did that involve aliens too? THERE'S A STORY THERE.
"Though I get slightly annoyed that the plays are shown as being performed at night. How are they lighting the stage, exactly? In Elizabethan England, plays were performed during the day. Oh well, not a big thing, I guess."
If it makes you feel better, it was scripted to take place during the day. However, in order to film in the Globe in the first place, they had to film at night. Also, I think they had to film, like, three to four times the number of pages they normal film a day in order to get it all done in the time they had on location.
(That last bit didn't directly relate to what you said; I just felt like adding it. *g*)
That does make me feel better, I didn't know that! It shouldn't annoy me at all really, we're talking about Doctor Who here. Accuracy of any kind really isn't a big concern.
SPOILERS, DOCTOR!
Yeah, I like this episode because it's funny, but it does have it's flaws. It just moves to fast to pick apart! I was excited for you to see the intersection of Harry Potter and Doctor Who. I really appreciated that Martha brought up that it's not really easy for her to travel through time. It reminds me of Louis C.K.'s bit about being white: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY
Oh, and they won my heart forever with the reference to possibly gay/bisexual Shakespeare. Much better than that other Shakespeare controversy!
I LOVE the main witch's eye make up.
(I feel deep today)
New canon: the Doctor loves Harry Potter so much that he got himself a role in the fourth movie as Barty Crouch Junior. NO ONE CAN CONVINCE ME THAT THIS IS NOT FACT.
I love this so hard. Obvious fact! #fact #hashtaggedtoproveit
my memory of episode order was a bit off, so i wasn’t expecting this one today!
Indeed! I totally thought 'Gridlock' was episode #2 of this season. Completely forgot about this one.
Not the best episode ever, but I enjoyed it. While the "Expelliarmus!" thing could've easily been cringe-worthy, it wasn't, it was fun and brought smile to my face.
I thought it was pretty rude of him to say, “ROSE WOULD HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT, GOSH” to here.
Oh, absolutely, Mark, NO KIDDING. Very rude, Doctor! (I would say more, but can't, 'cause of spoilers…) Poor Martha, she does NOT deserve that kind of treatment.
And Queen Elizabeth I being mad at the Doctor… teehee… 😀 I know why she's mad at him! 😀
Oh, and this episode was actually written and broadcast BEFORE Deathly Hallows came out. But it was sort of generally expected even then that DH would be pretty emotional, so the Doctor's line about crying wasn't such a wild shot. 🙂
"Well, I've lost Rose, so how about I make a new friend and constantly remind her that she isn't Rose and will never match up! I'm sure she won't mind."
Exactly!
"Well, I've lost Rose, so how about I make a new friend and constantly remind her that she isn't Rose and will never match up! I'm sure she won't mind."
Yes. That's so him at this point in time. And it's SO AGGRAVATING.
I keep wanting to explain about Queen Elizabeth, but spoilers. 🙁 😀
I like the part where Martha's trying to talk all shakespearean "Verily! Forsooth! Egads!"
And the Doctor's just like: "No, no. Don't do that."
It's exactly like how he reacted to Rose's fake Scottish accent in "Tooth & Claw"
Also: this exchange:
The Doctor: Queen Elizabeth the First!
Queen Elizabeth I: Doctor!
The Doctor: What?
Queen Elizabeeth I: My sworn enemy!
The Doctor: What?!
Queen Elizabeth I: OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!
The Doctor: WHAT?!
Oh Tenth Doctor. You get so bewildered so often 😛
I love when Tennant does the "Three Whats" bit. It's just so fun to see the Doctor get caught completely off guard.
And I think it's a rule that says that all of Ten's Companions have to say something that makes him go: "No. No, don't do that"
Whoa somehow I totally forgot about the exchange between the queen and the Doctor at the end. I don't know why, since it's awesome.
I would like it more if they hadn't used that cliched decaptitation phrase. It comes from the QUEEN OF HEARTS in Alice in Wonderland for God's sake. *headdesk*
Well, but Shakespeare also used it. King Richard says it in "Richard III" so that's a nice little tie in to this ep.
Oh really? I never studied that play so I didn't know. Thanks! 🙂
i don't even really watch doctor who (grew up on the original series' though!) but just happened to be in the uk, staying with a potter friend, and watched that episode! we had just been to see equus so it was like the perfect moment. good memories! ♥
OMG EQUUS! <3 <3 <3
yes!
i've always loved that play, so it was such a thrill!
i saw it twice. once from the stage, one from the front. wonderful. dan did a fabulous job.
"The characterization of Shakespeare is also really fun. I think that a lot of people today think of Shakespeare as high brow, but in reality there was a lot of bawdy humor in his work, and he was really writing for the masses."
I'm the first to admit that I'm not really up on all my Shakespeare stuff, but one of my favorite Shakespeare-related things is this one-act play my sister (and subsequently my brother) did in high school called, I think, "A Danish Soap, or the Danes of Our Lives." The premise is that Shakespeare is petitioning St. Peter (?) to allow him to return to earth for a week, because people think he's totally high-brow when he's not, so he's rewritten Hamlet as a soap opera. Then his heaven friends put it on for St. Peter to show that it's totally a viable option. By the time I got to studying any Shakespeare, I already had this in my head.
Add to that my love of the Moonlighting episode "Atomic Shakepeare" (where he's credited as "William 'Bud' Shakespeare"), I was primed for a… less-conventional view of the Bard when I first had to learn about him.
I WOULD SO WATCH "THE DANES OF OUR LIVES"
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/2rfsql3.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I LOVE the guy who plays Horatio. Can't remember his name, but such a fantastic performance. I LOVE it when they get a good rapport going between Horatio and Hamlet.
I knew you'd love this episode for the Harry Potter reference alone.
I do hate that they make Martha have this obvious crush on the Doctor. It tends to crop up up right when she's awesome-saucing.
This episode is for realsies one of my absolutely favorites. I just adore it. True facts: I used an upcoming episode in this season and this episode to get my friend hooked on the show. He of course loved it and especially loved all the nerdiness in this. Yay for theatre and Shakespeare nerds!!
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/2j2f5m0.gif">
Oh okay I pretty much have nothing to add cause this post said pretty much everything I would have, so I'll just say this episode makes me so damn happy. But yeah everything I would have quoted is already here.
And YES I was so happy that they also addressed race and didn't totally butcher it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOxJ3j_58EI
A clip of this was shown on the Blue Peter interview with JK Rowling. The entire interview is freaking adorable and she actually tears up at the end. Also, surprise John Barrowman with a rather accurate prediction for Book 7!
Massive props to her for her self-control! xD If I was her and I saw all these people predicting the end of my series I wouldn't be able to hold back any revealing expressions!
Also: I cried too, Mark, and I was so excited for you to see this episode cause of the Potter refs. 😀 I like it a lot aside from Ten being an ass, and that was one of my favorite bits.
(Man, it would be so awesome to have JK write an episode…)
And bi Shakespeare, fuck yes.
"(Man, it would be so awesome to have JK write an episode…) "
Oh yes. oooooh yes.
It's not JK, but Neil Gaiman has written an episode for the next series. 🙂
And now that she's no longer busy writing Potter, JK could totally do a DW episode… I'm sure it would be amazing! 🙂 Let's hope Moffat and co. can convince her to do it… It would do wonders to DW promotion.
I know, I'm really excited about that. 😀
OMG REALLY? YES YES YES YES YES!
ALSO, I am not sure who gets the credit for this awesome art (tell me if you know!) but it is wonderful:
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/Cr8aw.jpg>
THAT IS AWESOME.
I have not seen this before, OMG. ~Flawless
It is missing Martha tbh, but I assume he returned with her later. And then spoiled the kids in line when he mistook the HBP release for the DH release.
Ahahahaha I can totally see ten going this!
That is adorable! Love!
THIS. I. LOVE.
Oh gosh, the Doctor would totally go the Harry Potter events!!
THIS WINS THE ENTIRE INTERNET!!!
I was trying to find this! Thanks so much for posting!
OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER
I hate almost all of the "meet famous person"-episodes. They give me horrible second-hand embarrassment, and they reduce a real person into a walking stereotype with a single defining characteristic when they could have just invented a new character.
I'm rather fond of them. Yes, they are often caricatures, but I don't mind so much because it is introducing kids to important figures in history. They hark back to the early 60s when "Doctor Who" was educational and aimed to teach children science and history. Practically every other episode was a historical. I've heard of fans who have been inspired to go research say, the Massacre of St. Bartholemew's Eve after watching "The Massacre." They said they wouldn't have been interested at all if they hadn't seen the episode.
Plus, the TARDIS is a time machine. Who wouldn't use a time machine to go romping about history and meeting Shakespeare, Queen Victoria, or Robespierre?
Actually, I wish they did a proper historical episode WITHOUT an alien (other than the Doctor, obviously). Pure historical NuWho episode, that's what I'd love. I'm sure Moffat and co. could come up with a captivating story that doesn't require alien involvement. After all, Classic Who had quite a few of those…
So true! One of my favorite serials is "The Romans," which has almost zero sci-fi elements except for the TARDIS. Most of the historicals were just pure history. I'd very much enjoy an episode in that style in the New Series. There's plenty of danger and intrigue in the past without having to add aliens into the mix!
It really depends on the episode for me. Some I don't really care for, others I enjoy. In fact, one of them ranks among my favorite episodes ever and blows the rest of the "meet a historical figure" episodes out of the water, IMO.
I also feel this way about a particular historical. It actually probably ranks up there as one of my favorite episodes ever.
The historicals really are hit or miss for me. I generally prefer the ones based on a particular figure better than those that visit a certain time period, but it's Who so there are exceptions to every rule.
Hmmm… is it the one in Season 5? Because I did definitely enjoy that one.
I like them because the Doctor usually goes all fanboy and it's hilarious.
I'm more befuddled by the idea that pretty much every famous person in history has, in some way, dealt with a deadly alien attack that tried to kill them.
There are only a handful of famous-people episodes I'm particularly fond of.
The historicals are a definite mixed bag. I'm pretty "meh" on ones like this that rely on famous quotations so much – though "57 academics just punched the air" does make me snicker happily to this day – because it's mostly about making the audience feel clever and educated because they know said famous quotes and it's all very self-indulgent. It's not about the famous person; it's using him/her as scenery. Same goes for "The Girl in the Fireplace", which basically gets by with a few seconds of exposition about the Accomplishments of Madame de Pompadour and subsequently treats her like a generic love interest.
Basically, the more a historical dares to get messy and engage with its subject rather than just use him/her as a device, the more I like it. So the Dickens episode, while mostly a "we're clever for quoting" one, gets a few points for giving Dickens character development over the course of its story. And in the future there will be one historical I'm pretty much crazy about even with the quote thing. I really really get where your hate comes from, though.
YES! You got to this chapter with the HP references! You surely don't remember, but a long way back, a fellow commenter and I made the reference in one of your MRHP reviews. It was long before you decided to tackle on this or any series, when things were just said that had no meaning for anything. In case you haven't noticed, The Shakespeare Code came out in 2007 right before Deathly Hallows, so the reference was a sort of promotion for the upcoming book. Don't you just LOVE crossed references like that? =3
Harry Potter references and bisexual Shakespeare! Be still my heart….
I'm all for Shakespeare having been like this in real life. He was creating popular entertainment, and people rarely write the way they talk. I had an English prof who told us that if Shakespeare were alive today, he'd be writing for Eastenders. Mind you, though, I don't fancy Martha being his mysterious "dark lady" considering some of the things he wrote about her. Sonnet 137, anyone?
I hate, hate, HATE the Expelliarmus thing. It is RIDICULOUS, glib and annoying. I can't stand it when the Doctor's secretly partially responsible for great works of fiction. And also, I hate Martha's jacket!
*grumpus*
But Martha's a nice girl and in a hard emotional situation, which I can appreciate.
Aye, upvoted you simply cause I dislike seeing people downvoted for simply having unpopular opinions.
I did the same. I completely disagree with their opinion, but this isn't a popularity contest.
Me too. I hate it when people get downvoted just because other people don't like their opinion. As long as they're not being mean, abrasive, and/or offensive about it, who cares?
Yeah, I upvoted you as well.
We've been over this, you lot. If you're going to thumbs someone down for not sharing your opinion, you're basically saying, "my opinion is superior," in which case you can fuck right off. Having different opinions is an excellent thing! It's great fodder for discussion.
Up voted everyone because this is why I love coming to Mark's reviews. We can discuss our differing opinions intellectually (even if some people aren't behaving that way, at least they don't down voted instead of insulting or flaming at the poster). I like this corner of the internet because we have less (to none) crazies. And I really dislike the whole "up vote/down vote" thing. I prefer this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wui-PNqJrxs
Also, I seem to have a love/hate for the "Expelliarmus" thing. First watch through, I loved it. Second time, I hated it. Third time… I sort of liked it, but still found it… well… I wish I could quote one of my fave DW characters, but we haven't seen them yet, so I guess I'll just say it doesn't quite mesh, I guess is the word for now.
I think you mean it is RIDDIKULUS! (jk, jk… rowl-okay I'll stop)
To be fair, he's only responsible via stable time loops. Not like he comes up with the stuff himself, anyway. But I understand where you are coming from and I've upvoted you for much the same reason everyone else has. Boo bad downvoting.
Hahaha. Yes THAT is what I mean!
Nice catch. :]
(Stable time loops.. NO COMMENT >_>)
"And also, I hate Martha's jacket!"
I didn't hate the jacket, but I did hate that they didn't even bother to change clothes before WANDERING AROUND 1599 ENGLAND. Like, way to stick out like a sore thumb there, guys. I was surprised there weren't more comments like in Tooth & Claw when everyone calls Rose "naked."
Martha Jones saves the world through Harry Potter. It's so awesome, I forgive everything else – Martha just strolling around Elizabethan London in trousers (when a woman in trousers would have been arrested), the cliched use of the voodoo doll, Shakespeare wooing Martha at the end using a sonnet that was actually addressed to a MAN and not the Dark Lady… Dean Lennox Kelly is brilliant as Shakespeare and I actually felt happy when the Doctor got angry about Lillith using Rose's name. But Martha gets the crowning moment of awesome again.
You forgot the plays being performed at night. But I'm obsessing over that point, and another poster tells me that it had to do with timing constraints, so the scenes had to be shot at night.
Yes, they couldn't shoot during the day because of theatre and tours, so it had to be at night.
Oh man, I love this episode. It's so fun, plus Harry Potter references!
But poor Martha, indeed. It's hard to be in Rose's shadow.
I have a couple of questions for the Brits and U.K. citizens of this site, if they don't mind. 🙂 Mostly about the education system because Martha's apparent lack of Shakespeare knowledge had me thinking while watching this episode.
How far do you go into Shakespeare's history and works while in college? How about university? I know I once had an English friend explain to me how the education system worked in terms of the difference between college and university and how your concentrations work, but she didn't expand much beyond that. Do you have, what we call it in the U.S., general education classes? Like classes in which you learn basic subjects or the humanities?
I found it surprising that Martha didn't know much about Shakespeare, because I always assumed those in the U.K. or at least Britain went further in depth than the education about him I received in high school (UK college equivalent). Most of what I've learned about him came from a university-leveled class I took while studying abroad in London for a month. There, I learned about Shakespeare's son Hamnet among many other things and it boggled my mind that Martha didn't know some of the stuff I did. So is not knowing much about Shakespeare more normal that I thought it was or is Martha ignorant, which was my first impression? Or are obvious Shakespeare facts being posed as new information because it's a children show?
I hope any of what I said made sense. I'm really curious so I'm willing to clarify. xD
Otherwise, I really, really loved this episode, especially Shakespeare's characterization. I used to be one of those people who were unimpressed with the depiction of historical figures (that probably came from viewing the movie Shakespeare In Love…which I hated. Maybe because it's a rom-com, which is definitely not my thing, but still, that movie bothered me) but once I realized, "OH, the Dr. Who writers are making him a conceited asshole yet amazingly charismatic, brilliant, turns-out-to-be-AWESOME guy because they're purposely doing something DIFFERENT!" I loved this episode. The writers didn't go out of their way to be sticklers, they decided to let loose and have fun with it; a great way to go.
Plus the fact that Shakespeare was able to see the true psychic paper because he was a genius of words made me glow. That touched the writer and literature lover in me <3
Besides that all that, because of the Harry Potter references this is one of the best episodes ever. Just for that. Really. Don't judge. 😀 I'm not surprised my suspicions about this episode being before DH's release being confirmed because, honestly, which part did you cry at, Dr.? I can think of at least three life-changing parts xD
I'm an American, but I live in the UK and I obviously have a lot of friends who wen through the British educational system, so I can try to answer your questions the best I can real Brits can feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.
Basically, Rowling based the Harry potter educational system off of the real life British one. OWLs=GCSEs and NEWTS=A-levels. So if Martha went to med school, she would have started specializing in sciences starting from age 16 for A-levels and not taken any English classes beyond GCSEs (which may or may not have included Shakespeare, I really don't know). And there is no such thing as General Education classes in the British university system. You only take the classes that are on your particular course for your degree, so yeah. It's totally plausible that Martha is pretty unfamiliar with Shakespeare.
We study his plays but not his life. And even the plays depend on which exam board programme the school is following. During secondary school, I did A Midsummer Night's Dream TWICE (at different stages), Romeo and Juliet and Much Ado About Nothing. Never went near any of the tragedies. If you study him at university level, then yes, I think there would be more detail about his life… but Martha would have already been studying medicine. Her last contact with Shakespeare may have been GSCEs when she was 15/16.
We only have compulsory subjects till we are 16 (year 11) so after that many people wont be studying english or history. Martha would probably have taken Biology and Chemistry, maybe Maths? And also probably another subject for an AS Level (we do a year in Year 12 of as levels and most people willdo about 4 subjects, then in year 13 we have A Levels, and most will stick to 3 subjects)
After 6th form (which isn't compulsory) (years 12 and 13- i.e. ages 16 to 18) some people will go on to uni and study one subject. For instance I am doing Human Biology so my modules are Health + Disease, Cell Biology, Nutrition, Human Anatomy and also Biological Diversity. So as you can see, someone that would go to medical school would stop studying English Literature at age 16.
When I was 16 I'm pretty sure all we had done was Macbeth, The Tempest, Much Ado and Midsummer Night's dream… and almost nothing about the life of shakespeare until 6th form.
I should also point out that US universities have a much broader field of study than UK universities. Once Martha had decided she was going to be a doctor, everything would have been focused on that. No elective English or Drama classes, oh no.
It's the same thing in Spain, the US system confuses me a bit and, frankly, I see it as a bit of a waste of time.
I went to university in Spain as part of my year abroad, maybe I should have put European universities. 🙂
Yeah, I agree. See, I'm all for education for education's sake, but I'm paying three grand every year for this education and I want it to be worth it in the end jobs wise. So while specialising at 6th form probably isn't the best idea, which is why I did International Baccalaureate instead of A Levels, I am in favour of the European level of specialisation at Uni level.
My university education was 25K a year, I went in Undeclared, and switched majors twice (after declaring one in the first place.) And then went back and got a Master's when I wasn't happy with the job track I'd chosen at 21. I cannot imagine deciding at 16. Nor can I imagine only paying 3K a year. Holy bargin, Batman!
I can't imagine having to pay that much for my BA. Free education is seen more as a right here so even the UK's £3,000 is seen as a lot. A lot of European countries try to have 'free' or cheap Undergrad education. The cost can also vary depending if you're from that country, if you're an EU student or if you're an international student. This however is changing in some countries, especially with current economic difficulties. In Ireland when I started uni back in 06/07 we had a 900euro registration fee. It's now 2,000euro and it looks like the government (which ever's incharge after the election) are going to find some way to re-introduce college fees which is going to be very bad for the number of people able to attend college in the future.
Haha, it depends. Our quality and methods vary from school to school in ALL levels, which can be quite annoying. Our lack of tight focus in college before our third year might also look disadvantageous from the outside. On the other hand, I'm the type of person who likes to learn in many different fields (to the point where I go to a college in a large university where I can make my own concentration) and we're not expected to decide what we want to do with our lives by the time we're sixteen. Usually, when we're sixteen we're still working on our exams to get into universities which will officially be decided a year or two AFTER we get our results so making career decisions then seems shockingly early for us. My European peers seem to be adjusted to it, though, so hey, whatever works!
Thanks for your answers, all! I really appreciate it. 😀 Now I've learned something new and can look at Martha on a softer note. 🙂
I'm on the British system, although I don't live in the UK.
I took GCSEs (about age 14-16), where basically you had to take science, math and English (although if English was your second language you could take a different version) and PE. You then got to choose a language, a humanity and an art to study, and one extra subject of your choosing from any of the three categories. My school didn't study much Shakespeare at this level, although we read lots of poetry.
At IB (about ages 16-18) you still have to take English, but you can choose to do a Higher Level or standard level. At this point I'd already studied Hamlet, Romeo and Julliet, and the Tempest, and over the course we also read 'Much Ado about Nothing' and 'Macbeth', as well as lots of poetry, some Arthur Miller, Blood Wedding, A Street Car Named Desire, Medea and three foriegn novels translated into English.
Of course, some people might take A-Levels instead of IB. I don't think you need to take English in that course, so if Martha was studying A-Levels that might explain why she didn't know that much Shakespeare.
An IB-er?!?! This is crazy, I did IB too! Have you finished? Or are your exams coming up in May?
Exams in May. I have a week off for Chinese New Year, and I should be revising for mocks in two weeks…but yeah, I'm procrastinating. XD
You've finished? Does this mean your survived the horror that is IB?
Yeah, man- I survived! Exams weeks will be THE WORST THING IN LIFE… But oh my god the feeling when it's done… Best of luck, I'm sure it will all work out well 🙂
The basic idea is that pupils study the full range of subjects until the third year of secondary school, then choose subjects for GCSE. Usually that includes English and Maths and most schools expect at least a language, a humanities subject and a science. However somebody like Martha would probably have concentrated on the sciences. People usually do between 7 and 11 GCSEs depending on what they want to do and what the school can timetable. Shakespeare's plays are usually studied, but not the full set, generally whatever the exam board sets for the year that the pupils are studying. For GCSE there's usually one play by the Bard. Back in o-level days, the play that my exam board set was Macbeth. Before o-level, we'd done a handful of the others.
So most people giving up English at 16 (like Martha would have done, though she'd have been expected to have got a good GCSE in it to get into medical school) would have studied at most 4 Shakespeare plays at school. So Martha might have been to see a few plays (though there's not a lot of leisure time for medical students), she probably recognises most titles, which is why she kind of knew that Love's Labour's Won wasn't around, but she wouldn't have studied enough plays in enough depth to know her stuff. In contrast, drama students probably get to know a lot of his plays.
In terms of studying his life? Hard to know what subject that would fit in around at school.
I am a hardcore Rose lover, so i feel (not so) guiltily happy when the Doctor angsts over Rose. I don't think that his clearly unresolved issues with her being gone overshadow Martha though. She has some awesome moments in this episode.
I also love historical Who. Its so much fun! Although… some of it makes for the worst episodes of season 3.
ALSO TOTALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION OF A SRS NATURE FOR CONSIDERATION:
so which part(s) of Deathly Hallows was it that made him cry?
My vote is on Hedwig and Dobby. I mean, they were basically Harry's companions, right?
And the forest, where Harry sees the people he's lost! I bet the Doctor would empathise with that.
TOTALLY.
The Prince's Tale.
(If you didn't cry through that I will, not-so-secretly, judge you.)
Carry on judging me, then. 😛 I didn't cry but I did feel sad for Snape.
Me too…Everyone else has it as their saddest part and yeah it's sad but I didn't cry…
My personal moments of agony were Hedwig's death; Ron leaving; Harry at his parents' grave; Fred's death, Remus & Tonks.
Remus & Tonks forever and ever for me. Other moments as well, but that just wrecked me.
That was also awful for me, but "The Forest Again" was just too much.
The Forest Again just compounded the wrecking, I think. Everything about it was just so sad. Lupin's appearance and Harry's gut wrenching bravery. ;______;
Yeah that was the part that absolutely destroyed me. I got interrupted while reading it and I was a visibly shaken wreck, which really confused the poor guy next door who just wanted to borrow some laundry detergent!
I don't even really feel that bad for Snape — I mean, his life was crap, yeah, but I guess the way fandom tends to turn him into a giant woobie has put me off it a bit. IDK.
Yeah, I think that's me, a bit. Yeah, sad, horrible life; sad horrible choices. Tried in some ways to make up for it, but failed to even attempt to right some wrongs.
The biggest thing for me is people declaring Snape "good" the whole time; there's a distinction between doing good and being good for good's sake. Snape ultimately did good, but he didn't have the true "good" motives behind it.
Yeah, basically. I mean, it's unfortunate that he had a hard life, but lots of his own choices compounded that, and so I'm always left kind of being like "well yes, but have you tried NOT BEING A BIGOT?"
Snape ultimately did good, but he didn't have the true "good" motives behind it.
YES exactly. He did good things for selfish reasons.
Yeah, I also think it had to have been Hedwig and Dobby, at the very least.
I only saw this episode back in November, but I was able to tell when it was aired because he was so vague about it, hahaha. My guess is The Prince's Tale, when Harry dies/Dumbledore talks to him in the transition King's Cross, or when the Doctor finished the end officially.
While I was pretty torn at Dobby's death, it was when Harry was going to sacrafice myself that I was in tears. I mean, this child-hood character was about to die, and like Mark, I couldn't think of anyway to stop that. Rowling's writing was simply superb there, and it was heart wrenching to see everyone else who was already dead, and how Harry couldn't even say goodbye…
I think it would be THE FOREST AGAIN. Not only is it the saddest thing ever all on its own, but think about the Doctor and Gallifrey in comparison to Harry and the Wizarding World. Harry's sacrifice for the Wizarding World versus the end of the Time War. Ten probably wishes it had turned out that way for him 🙁
I worship and adore this episode – Martha is fabulous, the Doctor is fangirling so hard, there is no Rose, all the AMAZING HARRY POTTER STUFF, and Shakespeare!
Hey nonny nonny!!
I just realised David Tennant's private life contains a Doctor Who spoiler. Now THAT'S dedication to one's craft!
I instantly knew what you were talking about. And I am itching to tell Mark too.
OMG WHAT.
I'm going to take a page out of a character's (who is also a spoiler) book and say "Spoilers!" ;D
I can't read that word or hear it any more without thinking about that character. ha ha. 😉
Me too! When I type it, I hear it in their voice, and saying it? I'd do my (awful) impression if I thought ANYONE around me would get it.
No one around me gets it, but I do it anyway. I entertain myself. Life would be boring otherwise. haha.
Yeah, I did earlier too, because the opportunity curiously arose by coincidence, and it amused me even though it wasn't gotten by anyone. XD
I have no idea what you're talking about here, so I went to Wikipedia to read up on Tennant's private life, and apparently he's in a relationship with the fifth doctor's daughter??? That kind of blows my mind.
I am so, so glad you loved this episode, because this is probably my favorite episode from Season 3. Objectively, there are better episodes, but this one has SHAKESPEARE.
Yay for Doctor Who and Harry Potter only the two best things EVER and combined in one glorious moment in entertainment!!!
s;ofvsknd;prsk['askb;pjm;zmlk;
Fun fact:
Russel T Davies wanted to do an episode like this. But with Joanne K Rowling. Where "her world' becomes real. Fact.
Sit on that for a while and try not to weep over the loss. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed, though.
WANT NOW PLEASE!!!
try not to weep over the loss
YOU ASK THE IMPOSSIBLE OF ME T_T
Why can't this exist? Oh the tears. ;_;
*stares*
I shall never forget that this could have been.
<img src=http://i.imgur.com/S09JQ.gif>
You have such a gift for perfect gifs.
One day I hope to turn it into a profitable skill.
YOU ARE FUCKING KIDDING ME.
I need this in my life!
The idea is amazing, but bad special effects would seriously have ruined it for me, so I'm cool with not getting it (yet).
OMG I wish I had seen this… Actually when I read that both Tennant AND Patrick Stewart were going to be in this, my husband and I almost changed our honeymoon from a 6 hour drive to Florida to a nine-hour flight England just to see this show. Trouble is, the fucker sold out in three hours. So we just watched it when it aired on PBS.
Okay, typed up a comment before this was posted and then proceeded to pass out, so before I go reading all the comments, here is mine:
My first watch through Doctor Who, I kept hearing about "the Shakespeare episode" and it seemed like there were a lot of negative opinions about it. However, I really liked it.
I like that Martha has that little spark of "wellllll, what if we did this" that Adam had in the beginning, and that it is quickly abandoned after talking it through. Yes, you could bring back one of Shakespeare's lost plays, though people may think think you're a complete nutter, or conversely, believe you and demand you tell them just how you've travelled in time to acquire it on video. Which could end disastrous, either way really. (Still wondering just what the consequences of Adam's mum seeing that brain chip are, really. That would make for an interesting revisit, imo!)
This episode is really a lot of fun for me. Shakespeare flirting, witches(!!!), lots of fun and mayhem going on! The psychic paper not fooling Shakespeare, but giving a reading to Martha gave me a pretty good chuckle, I'll definitely admit. The stop at Bedlam probably gave me the creeps more than the Carrionites themselves. I think one of my only complaints is the lack of even thinking of trying to 'blend in' clothing wise. Did they give up on this endeavour? It makes me sad, because they at least previously tried a bit when they intentionally hit the right time in the past, yeah?
Regardless of my complaints, this is an episode that I'd pop in randomly if I want a random episode to watch. And the use of 'expelliarmus' with all the other Harry Potter references? So awesome. Ten effectively predicting the mood for Deathly Hallows was something that just made me watch it when it aired, just for the full effect of that.
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I have no idea where the hell that comes from, but I'm laughing my head off here.
OMG I LOVE this episode so much. This was one of the first episodes I saw (yes, I totally watched this show out of order) and immediately fell in love. Maybe it's cause Shakespeare is hot. Or that Tennant is a classicly trained Shakespearean actor. Or that I know a stupid amount of Theater history and Shakespeare's time, and this characterization of Shakespeare as a guy trying to make a living writing stuff for mass audiences is pretty darn close to the truth. Or that there's fucking Harry Potter references!! Bottom line: one of my favorite episodes of the series.
My one complaint, and it's teensy. I want to slap Martha in the face for turning down Shakespeare. Just a kiss, maybe a snog, but she would have MADE OUT WITH SHAKESPEARE. I just shake my head at her. Okay, that is all.
>So, the Carrionites…do they just appear as witches? I’m not sure I understood their species at all. But they were definitely alien, just….witch-like?
Well, I guess the implication is the idea that maybe the image of witches looking like that comes from the Carrionite influence.
>This episode…with it’s HILARIOUS portrayal of the famous bard. There’s no way it’s even remotely accurate.
Not accurate in the historical sense, but rather the image of Shakespeare as a populist entertainer translated into 21st Century terms as a rock star.
Hey Mark.
Here's the trviva.
A. This actually came out 3 months before Harry Potter 7 came out.
B.The episode bears some similarities to the previous Gareth Roberts' penned comic story featuring Shakespeare and the Ninth Doctor, A Groatsworth of Wit which may have provided some of the inspiration for this episode.
C.This episode's working title was 'Theatre of Doom' and 'Love's Labours Won'
D. Freedonia is a fictional country from the comedy film Duck Soup.
E. Shakespeare did use the word Sycorax in his play The Tempest.
F. Shakespeare referred to Martha as the "Dark Lady," the mysterious subject (though perhaps allegorical) of many of his sonnets.
In the Incantation/Code at the end of Love's Labours Won…
The light of Shadmock’s hollow moon
Doth shine on to a point in space
betwixt Dravidian shores Linear 5-9-3-0-1-6-7.02
And strikes the fulsome grove of Rexel 4.
Co-radiating crystal, activate!
…there are a number of references to other genre works:
A Shadmock was a creature which could be killed by a whistle from the 1980 comedy horror anthology film, `The Monster Club`.
Dravidian was an adjective used in the 1976 Doctor Who sereal, `The Brain of Morbius`.
Rexel 4 was a planet mentioned in a 1974 episode of `The Tomorrow People` called `The Blue and the Green`.
And finally, a co-radiating crystal appeared in the 1981 `Blake's 7` episode, `Power`
Amazing!
Very nice attention to detail. That's pretty sweet.
Dravidian is also a group of languages spoken primarily in Southern India.
Ooh! I like that.
Freedonia is also one of the names originally considered for the United States.
There is so much to love about this episode!! I will try to keep my fangirl "squee" to a minimum, but no promises. 🙂
Personal Story Time! This is the first episode of "Doctor Who" I saw with David Tennant as the Doctor. I had seen "Rose" online and I loved it. I then went searching for BBC America on my satellite TV because I wasn't sure if we had it. Lo and behold – there it was! I set the DVR to record the next episode of DW and it ended up being "The Shakespeare Code." After I got over my initial "Where the heck is Rose and who is this girl and what happened to the Doctor WHAT THE CRAP IS GOING ON???" freak-out, I fell in love with David Tennant as the Doctor and I love Martha Jones and Dean Lennox Kelley as Shakespeare and the Harry Potter and Back to the Future references and LOVE'S LABOUR'S WON (omg, sooper sekrit shakespeare mystery – yay!) and the Doctor line-dropping Shakespeare in front of William Shakespeare (esp. the "Hamlet" reference, as David Tennant later played Hamlet for the Royal Shakespeare Company. As a Shakespeare nerd and a DT fan, I highly recommend it).
GARETH ROBERTS AND RTD – THANK YOU OH SO VERY MUCH!!
*ahem* I'm done being a giggly-goofy-fangirl (for now ^_^)
I actually showed parts of this episode to the high school English class that I'm a teacher's aide just to show how much Shakespeare has influenced our culture. Some of them got it, which made me happy. I do love the portrayal of Shakespeare as a "rock star" here. I don't understand the Shakespeare "purists" getting all bent out of shape over this because there is so little we actually know about Shakespeare's personal life. He really was writing for the so-called "unwashed masses" (think of him as "Saturday Night Live" for Elizabethan era) and the critics of his day did not see very much value in his plays, but the regular people loved it. Just goes to show that you never know how history will treat the popular culture in any time period.
And I shall end my Shakespearean geekery there.
I know I came to the party kind of late, but I was just thinking the same thing (about English). My honors English class is right in the middle of Macbeth right now and we just finished a crap ton of sonnets (including 137), I need to convince my teacher that this would qualify as "educational material" and that we should watch it. Shouldn't be too hard, considering she brought in Firefly and Monty Python for us to watch. Seriously, as someone just getting into Doctor Who who is already an HP freak, this is the best thing ever.
So, I know quite a lot of Shakespeare. At this particular time, I'm studying Macbeth- and yesterday, particularly the final witches scene. Guess who couldn't stop thinking about this review?
I wouldn't say this is one of my favoruite episodes. I know the plot and execution is flawed, and historical accuracy is probably nearly non-existent (although, on the plus side, there would have been a fair number of black women in London at that time period, so that's fine). But its so much fun! The dialogue is so witty….and c'mon, Martha saves the world via Harry Potter geekiness! What's not to love?
All my favourite lines have already been highlighted, but I enjoyed the brief debate on the grandfather paradox. Martha: "What if…I dunno, what if I kill my own grandfather?"
Doctor: "Are you planning to?"
Martha: "No…"
Doctor: "Well then."
It's weird. I have been having real difficulty commenting on these reviews of Doctor Who episodes. It isn't because I don't enjoy them, Mark — I ADORE THEM, and I love revisiting the Doctor's adventures with you. But it's also reawakening the emotional impact New Who has had on me.
I had a very difficult time accepting Martha. I'm not going to say anything more right now. But when these episodes originally aired I was going through a rather rough time in my life, and the bond between Rose and the Doctor (both Nine and Ten, with or without Jack), was very emotionally important to me. After the devastation of "Doomsday" and the scene in "Smith and Jones" where the Doctor acknowledges, "Rose, her name was. Rose … and … we were together" — well, let's just say I was not sympathetic of Martha's crush on him.
Looking back with hindsight, Martha is an amazing character, and I fangirl her LIEK WHOA. (Again, I'll talk about that more later. ) But as I said, these reviews are making me miss Rose more than ever. *sniffle*
"Your comment must be approved by the site admins before it will appear publicly."
did I do something wrong, Mark or is it the new policy for all comments? I didn't post links or anything…
Which comment was it? That only happens if you put more than 5 links/images in it.
It also apparently happens if you say something political. I mentioned something of that nature once, and I got the same message. It posted a few hours later, though.
GREATEST HAMLET Y/Y! SO VERY YES!!!
(I need me some DT Hamlet right about now…)
Yeah, I admit the plot to this ep was…a little absurd (even by Who standards) but it honestly is one of my favorites of Season 3. Honestly though all the historical person eps generally end up on my favorite list because I'm a bit of a history buff so they tend to make me a giddy fangirl like this ep did. The Harry Potter jokes are even funnier when you consider Tennant was in Goblet of Fire (did this come before or after that movie?) and every so often a actor from HP will make a guest spot appearance (such as the girl who played Myrtle). I'm guessing Davies is a huge HP fan.
This was the first ep I ever saw! I had heard about it on Mugglenet, couldn't find the ep online, a few months later, I was flipping through the channels, and came across THIS EXACT EPISODE. 3 years or so later, and I'm still completely in love.
RANDOM GIF PARTY
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Random gif party is fantastic!
LULZ forever at that final Tennant one! I must know what game they were playing!
MUPPETS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME 😀
YES. OFFICIAL RULE OF MARK WATCHES. MUPPETS ALWAYS WELCOME
Yay, it's an official rule! 😀
Muppets! I can't wait for the new movie.
JASON SEGAL + MUPPETS = MY LOVE 4EVA.
Oh god the Rick Astley one is amazing
That is a BOSS Zefron gif.
THE BARROWMAN SINGLE LADIES DANCE! OMFG. <3 you.
LOL that last gif.
"THAT'S HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME OF CARDS! Then this happens, and you go WHOO HOO HOO HOOOO! And you're on TEN, and… it's all looking very good…"
I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THAT LAST GIF. I LOVE IT.
OMG OMG OMG The punching the air comment had me DYING OF THE LAUGHTER. And I'm a Shakespeare purist. Also? The guy who played Shakespeare? HOT LIKE FIRE. Seriously. *fans self*
OMG, THIS EPISODE. I LOVE IT SO MUCH. The first time I watched it, I had to pause it probably a dozen times so I wouldn't suffocate trying to hold in my laughter and hear the next line. So much awesome. Back to the Future reference! Sequel-dissing! The power of words! Dylan Thomas! HARRY POTTER, SO MUCH LOVE.
I don't know if you plan to watch any of the Doctor Who Confidential episodes, but some of those can make for good background on the show–David always seems to have a lot of good thoughts on the Doctor's experiences and motivations, and when it's not just RTD bloviating about how expensive and difficult this bit of totally pointless special effects was, they can be really interesting. In this case, the Confidential ep said they decided to create a sort of rock-star persona for Shakespeare, since nobody really knows what he was like and it's as likely as anything else, with his popularity and all.
I LOVED the HP references! But, as for the rest of the episode I wasn't a huge fan.
I am still very distracted by Martha's crush on the Doctor. I really, really hate it. Why did there have to be another young female companion with feelings for the Doctor *right* after Rose? I have to say, it really ruins things for me. =/
This is by far my favorite stand alone episode, and one of the few I've gone back to watch over and over. I love it that much, because it is such great nerdy fun combining different things I love. I'm so glad you liked it too!
"“So, magic and stuff? It’s a surprise, it’s all a bit Harry Potter.” “Wait till you read book seven. Oh, I cried.” "
I'n sure someone else has pointed it out to you but this episode aired PRIOR to book 7 being released. Which is what made all the JK/Harry Potter references even that much better.
This is one of my favorite episodes, and I love watching it over and over again. I love it when TV/Books portray historical figures not quite how you would expect them to be. Dickens was exactly how I pictured him. Shakespeare is better. He's fun, sarcastic, and not the fuddy duddy they teach you about in high school.
And oh yeah, the 57 Academics? I laughed my ass off when I first saw that.
It's the Globe! And Shakespeare! I remember having seen the preview after the last episode, and being so excited for this plot.
I do kind of wish we got more time-travelling goodness out of Shakespeare, though. I'd have loved if the fact that we don't technically have a known birthdate for Shakespeare could be included somehow, or just any of the other mysteries of his life.
Although I did love the reference to the debate that surrounds Shakespeare's sexuality.
And I'm guessing so, but can the TARDIS translate English into English?
And the Harry Potter references! Been waiting for this episode since it was announced Mark Watches Doctor Who would happen.
Also, haha, MiniDisc. Technology just doesn't withstand time very well. Although this reference was dated at the time this episode aired, so…
Okay, so I'm gonna end with a moment of non-squee – skip if you don't want to read criticism.
"Rose would know. A friend of mine, Rose. Right now, she’d say exactly the right thing." – oh, fuck this moment. Writers, I don't have a problem with the Doctor mourning the loss of Rose, but you don't have to express that grief by making Ten treat Martha like shit. You don't have to make Martha be second-best to Rose in order to value Rose. And you REALLY don't have to make the black girl feel unwanted and undesired – it's just entirely unnecessary and also skeevy-looking. Do you want me to not like Martha or something? Moreover, do you want me to not like Ten? But you're definitely making me not like you, you being whoever decided this would be a good thing to do.
*standing ovation* THANK YOU for that last paragraph, awesome comment is awesome. And spot-on. I like Martha as a person, I really do, but I get so frustrated and angry at the way the writers treat her. I get that Ten is mourning Rose's loss, but he really does not need to act like this to Martha, and the unfortunate implications with the races of the parties involved just makes it all worse. The treatment of Martha is a big part of my issues with Ten, and RTD.
I suspect we may be married on the astral plane or something. Maybe we're the same person? All I know is we seem to agree a lot.
Haha yeah, it's a little spooky. XD But not bad!
Thanks for expressing the criticism of this episode better than I ever could. So agreed. I just don't understand what they were going for with this thread of behavior/characterization.
I know the Doctor has met Shakespeare in the past, but I'm not sure if any mysteries were explained.
And ugh, yeah. I can't stand the Rose-related treatment of Martha. All it did was make me hate Rose before I even knew her.
I'm in the same boat with regards to Rose. I have grown to like her, but I was a bit soured on her in the beginning.
Yeah, now Rose is in a solid tie for second place for favourite companion (even though I don't have a third place), but they really did her no favours.
I basically watched S1 and 2 of DW and S1 of Torchwood in the span of a few days (woohoo summer hiatus), so I never really formed concrete opinions of any characters since I was going through it so fast.
But whatever I felt about Rose originally, watching S3 in real-time made me almost retroactively dislike her character because I really like Martha. And some of the Rose fans in fandom were doing what Ten's doing but to the extreme, which really pissed me off.
So my opinion of Rose is pretty much forever going to be tainted by this sort of treatment of Martha from the Doctor, as well as certain vocal sections of fandom pissing me off.
I honestly wonder if anyone who watched S3 before S1 or 2 didn't get disenchanted with Rose before they ever saw her.
I really disagree with your reading of the"Rose would know" scene. The writers aren't speaking through Ten. The writers aren't saying that Rose is better than Martha. What's happening in that scene is that the Doctor is still so lost in his pain of losing Rose and mourning her that he's completely insensitive to Martha and her feelings. I mean, he's not intentionally trying to hurt her. He's not even looking at her while he's talking. It's as if she isn't there. That moment is more about Ten's state of mind than it is about Rose OR Martha. It's a necessary moment in that it demonstrates how closed off Ten has really become to other people. He's not looking for another companion. He's not trying to get to know Martha. He's wrapped up in his own issues and is being completely insensitive.
Now if you don't like him for it, more power to you. I think it makes for some for some interesting character stuff as part of Ten's larger character arc, but it's not exactly likable for sure.
"The writers aren't speaking through Ten."
But then you have quotes like this:
"From the moment they meet, the Doctor and Rose are soul mates. They understand and complement each other." – Russell T Davies
So I honestly do believe RTD at least (but not all DW writers) think Rose is irreplaceable, and that no other companion is going to live up to the way the Doctor cared for Rose.
But fine, say I concede that point.
You still have a sympathetic character, and a TV icon, expressing viewpoints that Martha isn't as good. The message that Martha is second-best is still being said, again, by a sympathetic character. Hell, it's said by the namesake of the show. It's said by an "angel" and a "lonely god" and all the deification imagery the Doctor gets.
Does this moment tell me about Ten? Yes. BUT IT'S ALSO A DENIGRATING MESSAGE TOWARDS HER CHARACTER. I don't think it's necessary at all to characterize that the Doctor is hurt by making him hurt someone else, knowingly or not.
And frankly, I think the writers play fast and loose with the Doctor's ability to understand human emotion. Sometimes he seems quite astute at understanding humans, and other times he doesn't. So frankly I think it's debatable that Ten's not knowingly hurting her, if only because I think the writers are inconsistent with his character.
It's a necessary moment in that it demonstrates how closed off Ten has really become to other people
And yet, he likes Martha and HE invited HER, he basically flirted with her lots in the previous ep, so I don't think he's as closed off to other people as you say, I think he's merely being defensive and trying to avoid getting hurt again, not that he's in so much pain now he can't function like a decent person.
I don't think that quote means that ROSE IS TEH BEZT and that no one can ever be as good as her. I think that RTD does believe and write the show from the point of view that the Doctor and Rose are soul mates. That doesn't mean he thinks that Rose is superior to other companions or that the Doctor doesn't care about other companions. I think Ten does love other companions, not less than Rose, just differently. It doesn't make Martha less than Rose just because the Doctor doesn't love her like he does Rose. I really can't get into specifics without spoilers, so the rest of this conversation will have to come later, but suffice to say I disagree with how you think that RTD thinks of Martha.
The Doctor might be a TV icon and he might be The Good Guy, but that doesn't mean that he's right all the time. He's not a black and white character. He can be wrong, and is sometimes explicitly shown to be wrong. I don't think the audience is ever meant to take his words at face value because he is still a character inside of a story and interacting with that world and dealing with his own issues. He isn't meant to be an outsider character who comments on the action around him.
I don't think it's necessary at all to characterize that the Doctor is hurt by making him hurt someone else, knowingly or not.
Maybe not NECESSARY, but it is a good bit of writing. It is showing and not telling. The Doctor doesn't need to say "I am sad and I miss Rose", but it's shown to the audience through the callous way he's treating Martha.
And yet, he likes Martha and HE invited HER, he basically flirted with her lots in the previous ep, so I don't think he's as closed off to other people as you say, I think he's merely being defensive and trying to avoid getting hurt again, not that he's in so much pain now he can't function like a decent person.
Yes, he invited her to come along for one journey. Not for good. He is keeping that distance between them . He doesn't want to get close to someone again. So I agree that he is being defensive.I didn't mean to imply that he's like completely incapacitated by pain. But I also think that part of his defensiveness is not even making the effort to understand Martha. But idk. i really think that the way that scene is blocked makes it pretty clear that the Doctor isn't being intentional with hurting Martha. He's not even really thinking about her at that point.
The Doctor is in conflict with himself at this point. I firmly believe that in Episode 1, he was essentially auditioning Martha for companion. But only subconsciously! He invites Martha for one trip to say thank you. That is his sole motivation as far as he's concerned even though, underneath it all, he does want her to stay. When the Doctor says he wants to be on his own, he means it. He's not lying, except perhaps to himself.
There's nothing unrealistic about that – we all do things for motivations that we'll never admit to anyone – even ourselves. Nothing intentionally callous about it, either. The `one trip to say think you` as kind of compromise deal with himself. Then he'll find an excuse to extend that one trip, and then another excuse, until…well, I can't finish that thought due to spoilers.
There are flashes when Martha says or does something brilliant and suddenly for him, it's like the sun coming out from behind the clouds. He can't help but notice her light up the room. But then in the quiter moments, he retreats into himself and just forgets to consider Martha's viewpoint.
>From the moment they meet, the Doctor and Rose are soul mates. They understand and complement each other." – Russell T Davies.
And that is why they have a romantic relationship. The Doctor's relationship with Martha is going to be very different. Different doesn't equate to second best. Without either Martha herself having it out with him, or a third person pointing it out to the Doctor, the idea that he's making her *feel* second best will simply not occur to him.
While he may be 900 years old, this is a new situation for the Doctor, emotionally, and he's handling it badly. That doesn't reflect badly on him or Martha. It just makes them…well…`human`.
I seem to be in a minority of people who love both Martha and the unrequited love at the same time. Maybe Martha is making some poor choices – and that's a matter of opinion to begin with – but that doesn't make her a lesser character or a badly written character. I can totally relate to her situation without ever having been there myself. At times, she's treated badly, but she's also having adventures in time a space and maybe she's thinking `If I have it out with the Doctor, that might stop. And I don't want it to stop.`
Another thing worth highlighting is that the first half season or so takes place in just a few days from Martha's perspective. Maybe the trip of a lifetime with this brilliant man is worth the heartbreak…at least for a while. It's her choice and one that I can understand.
>"From the moment they meet, the Doctor and Rose are soul mates. They understand and complement each other." – Russell T Davies.
And that is why they have a romantic relationship. The Doctor's relationship with Martha is going to be very different. Different doesn't equate to second best. Without eietehr Martha having it out with himn herself or a third person pointed it out to the Doctor, the idea that he's making her *feel* second best will simply not occur to him.
While he may be 900 years old, this is a new situation for the Doctor, emotionally, and he's handling it badly. That doesn't reflect badly on him or Martha. It just makes them…well…`human`.
(Btw – how come some ppl can post really long comments and others have to split them?)
"And I'm guessing so, but can the TARDIS translate English into English?"
This reminded me of a moment I loved in the episode–when Martha starts saying "Forsooth, verily" and all that, and the Doctor is just like "Don't do that," in the exact same manner as when Rose started trying to sound Scottish in Tooth & Claw. It amused me. Maybe he specifically says that BECAUSE he knows the Tardis will translate for them!
I love this episode so much. I watched the "Expelliarmus!" scene on YT long before I got into the series b/c it made the rounds on HP fansites. I'm also a bit of a Shakespeare nerd so picking out all the references to his work was incredibly fun.
"Wait a minute, that's mine!" is one of my favourites. This is probably the episode in all of New Who that I've watched the most, mainly because of the Harry Potter references at first. I also love that its original airdate was before book 7 was released. Also I just love Martha and the way they chose to portray Shakespeare. Pretty much everything really, I never really looked for plotholes. Then again there are so many in Doctor Who you should probably just ignore them all, or it will ruin the fun.
Oh I'm a complete Shakespeare fangirl and I still loved it. Really, I'm cool with many portrayals of Shakespeare, because so little is actually known about the guy's life. So I don't mind when people play with it.
Mark.
I tried to write a comment and discovered I can't say anything without nearly spoiling, so I'm going the trusty route of not saying anything at all, except for the good old MRHP refrain:
YOU ARE NOT ________.
I think you can fill in the rest on your own.
I LOVE everything about this episode, everything with Shakespeare. I love Martha's nerdery. I love the Doctor and his affection for pop culture. (Shakespeare, past pop culture; HP, future pop culture!) I love Shakespeare. I love the whole witch stereotype being based on aliens thing, and as a linguist, I love the thing about words having power and that being the "magic" in the episode. Expelliarmus! I even love that they worked it into poetry that SCANS at the end. (Who is a big poetry nerd? ME.)
My inner Ten/Rose shipper loves his Rose angst. I love that Rose keeps making him strong even in her absence. And Martha is awesome in every moment except for those where she's crushing on the Doctor. It's not that I don't understand that the Doctor is a handsome man who appears to be hitting on her, but he's also so oblivious, so clearly wounded, and such a DOUCHE to Martha that I don't understand how her crush lasts longer than five minutes.
That's the thing. I understand the emotional logic of Ten's actions, even though I think it's leading him to behave very badly. Heartbroken, lonely, wants someone with him, becomes cranky every time that someone reminds him she's not the someone he used to have. He's an asshat but he's comprehensible.
Martha tolerating that bullshit and being INTO HIM and being WOUNDED by his douchiness when she's so clearly confident and capable otherwise… doesn't make sense to me, unless I'm supposed to understand her as a rom-com stereotype like the unhappy career woman who's got her shit together except when it comes to men and then she gets all woobly and dumb. Martha, if she's good enough to be a Companion for the Doctor, is good enough to not be just another instance of that kind of anti-careerist, anti-WOMAN rom-com bullshit.
I want Martha to ACTUALLY be a strong female character, instead of a cardboard cutout of what one is supposed to look like. For the record, I lay the blame at the writers' feet for this.
This is a great comment. I come out of all of that still loving Martha, but I definitely understand your frustration. She could have been so much more awesome without this unrequited love bit. 🙁
"For the record, I lay the blame at the writers' feet for this. "
And yet you're pretty critical of Martha. I suggest you not use descriptions like "anti-careerist" and "anti-WOMAN" to describe her if you're genuinely unhappy with the writing and not her.
Otherwise, you just seem to be hating on what you admit is an "otherwise" confident and capable female character. (And I'd contend her being into him doesn't detract from those good qualities in any way)
Martha isn't a woman, Martha is a character who is more or less realistic. She is the writers' creation. Criticizing the writers for promoting anti-woman stereotypes… I don't see how that's a problem. If I were treating Martha like a real person and hating on her as if she WAS one, or if I were hating on Freema Agyeman, that would be a different thing.
You misunderstand me – criticize the writers all you want, that is what I want to see.
What I mean is if you think Martha is strong and capable, but you see her crush as demeaning to her character, don't hate the character for this one "flaw" – why does this ruin the rest of her character for you? Certainly it can ruin her portrayal (again, do go and criticize the writers all you want), but her having what you consider a stupid crush doesn't detract from her other traits, does it?
A character can be great even if you think the writers are messing them up.
Well, I think now we're getting into this existential question of "what is a character?" and I guess I would say a fictional character, particularly on television, is sort of a synergistic product of the writers' ideas, plots, and dialogue; the directors' instructions, and the actor's portrayal. But I do see what the writers give the character as being at her base.
I hate the "character flaw" of Martha's Doctor schmoop/emotional cluelessness for a lot of reasons:
– Like I said above, it brings Martha's character dangerously close to rom-com stereotype territory, if not putting her fully within in. Is there anything to like about rom-com stereotypes? Not particularly. At least not if you ask me.
– From just a mechanical point of view, it feels like bad writing that makes the character, as a whole, feel inconsistent and off-key to me. Based on everything we know about this woman, I do not understand the logic of her reacting to the doctor the way she does. "Because David Tennant is hot duh! and he has a time machine!" is insufficient logic. I think in Smith and Jones it's pretty clear that she's not the type to lose her cool just because of a pretty face or some whiz-bang effects. Logical in the face of the improbable is her THING. She does a good enough job helping the Doctor stand up to bad guys to make me think she's not the sort to just lie back and take ill-treatment. And yet, that's exactly what she does in the scene at the inn. I don't object to characters being flawed; THIS flaw just seems to contradict EVERYTHING ELSE we've ever been told or shown about Martha.
ETA: Also, it makes for scenes that I think are just painful to watch and are unnecessary to the story. We could see the doctor working through his grief in another way. I don't want it to seem like the Doctor is not a douchebag, from my perspective, and that I don't hold him accountable for being an ass. I do. But HIS bad behavior makes sense. It fits what we know about the Doctor. Martha's crushy behavior does NOT make sense, and in fact it makes so little sense it makes me question her entire characterization.
Basically I like Martha because of her personality and what she COULD have been, if RTD hadn't saddled her with this horrible unrequited love storyline. To reduce someone so strong and smart and otherwise interesting to this irritates me to no end.
This so much, except that her crush ruined it for me. I probably would've liked Martha if she hadn't been so into the Doctor, wangsting about the whole "WHY NOT ME T_T" thing. Probably why I liked her successor so much more 😀
Yeah, it initially ruined her for me, but later thought and reflection (and now Mark's reviews) have made me realize what I DO like about her and my opinion of her has gone up. I lay all my frustrations and irritation basically at the writers' feet (especially RTD, which I think is fair because it's his character and he chose the direction her storyline would go in). Also made me appreciate her successor more, yeah.
The thing is though, real people do that. We all know people who are awesome in so many ways, but are total muppets in one aspect of their lives, like relationships. Martha is brave and clever, able to real manuals and is the only one who gets the "don't wander off" business. But she's fallen for a bloke who she can never have, who is being a total idiot about his former companion.
The Doctor is an alien and still doesn't get human relationships. He sort of understands bits of it, but still can't grasp the realities. He was told off by both Rose and Sarah Jane about never mentioning past companions. Now he does nothing but eulogise his last companion to Martha. He isn't human and really can't judge this right at all. However talk about mixed messages. Frankly, if a good looking bloke suddenly kissed me like that, then seductively attracted me into his motor, took me somewhere exotic and started to share a bedroom with me, I'd be getting mixed messages too!
Yes, thank you for this comment. I've been trying to say this for the past couple of reviews. High intelligence does NOT make you a genius when it comes to love! Who Martha falls in love with has nothing to do with how 'clever' or 'ambitious' she is.
However talk about mixed messages. Frankly, if a good looking bloke suddenly kissed me like that, then seductively attracted me into his motor, took me somewhere exotic and started to share a bedroom with me, I'd be getting mixed messages too!
No kidding! Also, bullshit, Doctor, like Rose would have known what to do any more than you or Martha do. Urgh.
Random comment is random, but Craig Ferguson is talking about the TARDIS with Helena Bonham Carter on the Late Late Show! 😀
I'll check that out! Thanks for the heads up! I love it when he randomly chats about Doctor Who with people
I can't believe how good this show is. I love words and the power they have, and to see that taken to a literal extreme blows my mind. And Shakespeare! Not since Mark's "Breaking Dawn" chapter 38 review have I seen the Bard's dialog handled with such astonishing wit. Even all of those Potter books I read paid off in a glorious, pyrotechnic finale!
I am not an expert with Shakespeare, though; I only call him 'the Bard' because Alex Trebek does, ha,ha,ha.
I like the idea of Shakespeare the sleaze. Mostly because I have a friend who if she had a time machine, she'd go back in time just to worship Shakespeare. She's made him into this flawless, perfect god in her head and it annoys me. I imagine he was only human and did human things, like be a bit sleazy.
Its not that the Carrionites look like witches, but that the Shakespearian (and therefore our) depiction of witches is based on Carrionites.
SO, question:
do you think the Doctor discovered HP in the 90s and then jumped to 2007 immediately just to get all the books and not have to wait?
I think this is probably exactly what he did. It would be a good way for him to avoid the whole "OMG SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE" spoilers.
Yeah, and in the middle of book seven or something he'd be like OMG MIND=BLOWN and not bother reading it but taking the sonic screw driver and scanning the pages into his brain instead (or something. CAN IT DO THAT? or is it just the mechanicy thing Tosh has in like the first episode ever of Torchwood (and I hope that doesn't count as a spoiler)) and then he'd be all… "I shouldn't have done that" and then he takes a RetCon pill and forgets it and RE-READS THE WHOLE THING.
and then he goes abck in time to get the first editions of all the books.
"and then he goes abck in time to get the first editions of all the books. "
NGL, if I was a Time Lady, this would be what I would spend most of my time-traveling doing. 😉
This is my favourite episode of Dr Who. And I'm pretty sure it's because of the Harry Potter love in it. That's all that really needs to be said!
I adore this episode. Martha <3
Doctor Who and Shakespeare AND Harry Potter? I love this episode so hard.