In the third episode of the second series of Doctor Who, Mickey calls the Doctor and Rose back to earth when a local school begins to produce strangely intelligent children. Going undercover as employees, they discover that an alien race is building an army of brains–through children–to control all of time and space. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to watch Doctor Who.
There’s a lot to like about “School Reunion,” written by Toby Whitehouse, but two large problems hold it back from being a truly great episode. I feel like this script was once much longer; in fact, there was a moment near the end where I was convinced this would be a two-parter. Instead, this story ends up feeling rushed in the beginning and rushed in the end.
This sensation starts right at the beginning of “School Reunion,” though I’m willing to brush it off because it’s neat to see this episode start without any sort of introduction, especially as we cut to the title sequence right after seeing the Doctor as a teacher in this school. I’m not sure that he’s the very best teacher ever, but really, who cares? He’s your physics teacher. While in disguise as a teacher at Deffry Vale School, he finds a student with an uncanny ability to answer complicated questions without hesitation.
Meanwhile, Rose is stuck working in the school’s cafeteria, where the headmaster has decreed that chips be served with every meal. Look, as cheesy as that concept is, you have to hand it to him: it’s utter genius. Using chips as a method of distilling an oil that can heighten the brain activity of teenagers? I’m sorry, I would fall victim to that in less than ten minutes. Fried and/or baked potato products will be the death of me, my friends.
I enjoyed the fact that the high-performing student body gains public attention, if only for the fact that (briefly) the events of this episode don’t happen in a sort of vacuum, that what Headmaster Finch does is not something that is ignored by everyone. This doesn’t ever really happen again, and I suspect it’s because the writers needed an opportunity to bring in Sarah Jane Smith.
I was confused as to why the Doctor had such an excited look on his face, especially when Sarah Jane didn’t seem to recognize him at all. In what is the first example of it so far, one of the Doctor’s old companions returns to the show. (I mean, first example in the new series, as I have no idea if it ever happened before 2005.) When she finds the TARDIS that night, we’re treated to an emotional reunion between the two old friends, especially when Sarah wastes no time confronting him about leaving her behind so far from home. (Yes, I had to consult a map because I had no idea where South Croydon was. JESUS CHRIST, THAT IS SO GODDAMN FAR FROM ABERDEEN. Doctor, what are you doing.)
Re-introducing Sarah Jane is really the only thing that interested me fully throughout “School Reunion.” Watching her interact with Rose is fascinating, since it highlights the jealousy that Rose exhibits whenever someone seems to encroach upon her time with the Doctor. I’m curious if his other companions reacted in the same way if there was more than one person traveling with the Doctor. The ongoing tension between the two of them builds to a boil when they finally have a confrontation leading to each of them reciting the fantastical things they’ve seen with the Doctor. Sarah wins when she brings up the Loch Ness Monster, but the scene serves the purpose to also point out exactly how foolish it is of them to think either one is threatening to the other one.
So, in stating all of this, I do feel like I need to complain about two things in “School Reunion.” First of all, this plot sucks. There. I said it. I love the monsters, I think the Krillitane are creepy, and Anthony Head is totally perfect for the leader of these creatures. I love the idea that Mickey is responsible for getting them there in the first place. I love that it brings all these people together. This is why it’s so disappointing that it fizzles out so poorly by the end of the story. I’m not sure calling the end a giant plot hole is even doing justice to this. I literally do not understand how the Krillitane oil is toxic to everyone but children. I don’t get what the Skasis Paradigm, this “theory of everything,” was ever developed or what it’s use is beyond controlling space and time. So the kids computed the answer to this theory and then….what? So you just kill the Krillitane and then the Paradigm is gone? Can’t someone else just make it? I SERIOUSLY DON’T GET IT.
What is probably a plus for most people, as well, didn’t work for me. I haven’t seen any of the older Doctor Who episodes, so I have no emotional reference for why Sarah Jane and K-9 are important. They are brand new characters to me, so the entire episode felt like all the cool kids were talking about the super awesome time they had that weekend going to the most awesome punk rock show ever and I was busy at home reading Edgar Allan Poe and crying myself to sleep at night. Or something.
That’s not a fair reason to discount the episode. I’m aware of that. I think the show needs to have references like this to the past to maintain its authenticity. It still didn’t do anything for me at all. But I feel it’s important to admit that this episode might mean a lot to people who have been watching Doctor Who for years.
THOUGHTS
- “Think how bad things could possibly be, then add another suitcase of bad.”
- “You can spend the rest of your life with me. But I can’t spend the rest of mine with you. I have to live on, alone. That’s the curse of the Timelords.” Ugh, SO DEPRESSING. Also I need to watch the serial that address the Time War because I really want to know how the Time Lords died.
- “I’m seeing pigtails and a frilly skirt.”
- Despite not knowing who K-9 really was, I like having the dog around. MOAR.
- I thought Sarah Jane would accompany them, but I guess not. But she does get her own show, yes? Also, did Mickey agree to travel with them at the end of the episode? I couldn’t tell.
Mark, I think your next classic should be where Sarah Jane first appears. I don't know which one that is, though (is a bad fan).
The Sontaran Strategem is the name of the episode, I believe. (I AM SUCH A NERD. HOW DID I KNOW THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. BRB CONTEMPLATING MY LIFE CHOICES) It's a Third Doctor serial.
Clearly you made some excellent life choices. 😛
Do you mean Sontaran Experiment? Sontaran Stratagem was a New!Who series 4 episode.
Gah. Yeah. I think that's what I meant. Idek where my head is right now. haha. Jetlag + pulling all nighters to write essays is not a good look for me, apparently.
Oh, I have been there. Good luck on your essays!
Spoilers and wrong again. It was the Time Warrior. First episode of Pertwee's final series. Historically significant for introducing Sarah Jane widely considered the best classic series companion, the first mention of the name of the Doctor's homeplanet (even though they'd gone there before) and the introduction of a recurring alien race.
Yeah, sorry, I haven't seen Experiment but thought the name would be similar enough to what Karen remembered.
The Time Warrior, an amazing introduction to her character although sadly in those days after your introduction you were just there. She gets more character development in this episode than in everything after Time Warrior.
First and foremost: I LOVE YOU ANTHONY STEWART HEAD, EVEN AS SOME SHRIEKY BAT THING!!!!!!! <333
Also…I feel like I would be that lame person reading Edgar Allan Poe in my bedroom instead of going to a punk show. A metal show, maybe. But there's always an 80% chance I'd end up reading for the night instead.
Hey, I've been reading a history of the English language, based on evolution of English grammar. Egar Allen Poe would have better plots, and more excitement. (Although I did learn that Welsh influenced English grammar. Go BBC Wales!)
No punk or metal for me. King Crimson would get my nose out of a book, though.
I had many of the same reactions to the episode you did, having still not seen any Classic Who myself. I did like Anthony Head in it (he is wonderful <3), and K-9, and I liked the monsters, but overall it didn't do too much for me either.
Also 1) yes, she gets her own show (since you asked, I feel comfortable answering), and 2) yes, Mickey is going to travel with them.
Also-also, UGH, I was so appalled by Rose's behavior here, first to Sarah Jane and then her reaction to Mickey coming along. What a brat! Grow the hell up, Rose.
I admit it, I don't like Rose. This episode, and the next one, are the main reasons I don't like her which, coincidentally, are the first New Who episodes I ever saw. Which just proves that you base everything off of your first impressions.
I don't really hate Rose with firey passion but she's my least favourite companion by far.
Didn't Sarah Jane behave just as badly as Rose though? And she isn't even a teenager.
She does, but fandom usually does not acknowledge that.
Hello!! Fancy seeing you here ^^ … ready for tomorrow's review? XD XD XD
lol I may sit that one out, I have class anyway.
Oh hiiii! I didn't know you read Mark's blog. (lol. This is fauxkaren from lj in case that isn't obvious).
I think I might prepare a comment beforehand for tomorrow and then post it and get the hell out of Dodge. If I actually stay to read the comments, I think I will say things that I'll later regret.
((waves!!)) lol funny our messages on here/onLJ must totally have crossed XD I generally lurk here =)
Yeah I also already wrote something up for tomorrow … lol =)
The difference being Sarah had reasons to act that way having been abandoned by the Doctor decades back. Whereas Rose is just being a clingy teenage b….. for no good reason.
Being abandoned doesn't mean Sarah Jane gets to be jealous of Rose, it means she gets to be angry with the Doctor. Her jealousy of Rose and her pettiness towards Rose is no more excusable than Rose's treatment of her. I don't think Rose is being a "clingy teenage bitch", I think she's reacting realistically to the sudden realization that this amazing adventure she's been having with this guy she clearly loves (platonically, romantically, whatever) may well just be another day in the life for him, and when she one day leaves he may never speak or think about her again, just as he's never spoken about Sarah Jane to her.
But I do agree that the person at fault here is the Doctor, for a) abandoning Sarah Jane and b) never making it clear to Rose that he travelled with other people, and also probably for c) so easily sweeping people under the rug. That's what they're both upset about, anyway.
"Being abandoned doesn't mean Sarah Jane gets to be jealous of Rose." Uh she's not. Well perhaps a little bit that Rose is living the life she lost a long time ago. Sarah doesn't really have anything against Rose apart from her being young (then again so was she) and the fact that she antagonises her.
Then we agree to disagree because IMO Sarah Jane is absolutely acting as petty towards Rose as Rose is towards her. The shots about Rose's age like "maybe you haven't done that bit yet" do not read to me as just casual conversation.
I think I'm harder on Rose because a) it's just plain silly to assume that he's never had any friends before her and b) Rose didn't seem to actually learn anything, as at the end of the episode she STILL didn't want to share the Doctor with anyone else.
How so? She invited Sarah Jane along at the end of the episode, after all.
Did you see the way she looked when Mickey said he wanted to join in? I liked Rose better in s1, frankly.
This.
She didn't want mickey coming along because he's her on again off again boyfriend. She doesn't want him, specifically, as the semiboyfriend, encroaching on her time with the Doctor. A bit selfish, yeah, but not in the least bit unrealistic. Who wants to share the time they could be spending with a newer love interest with an old one as well?
Which bring us back to "she STILL didn't want to share the Doctor with anyone else", which was artic_hare's point.
I understand her, and I'd probably had done the same, but really, it's not exactly proving her maturity or anything like that.
But you see, that's NOT what I was saying. Her willingness to let Sarah Jane come along shows that she was plenty okay with sharing him. She just didn't want to share him with MICKEY. Specifically. That's how I read it, anyway. After all, she was the one that pressed the Doctor into inviting Sarah Jane.
And as for it not proving her maturity… she IS 19.
This is clearly something that we are all goingto have different opinions about, but I always saw it less of her not wanting to share the Doctor and more of her not wanting to share herself. Hanging out with your ex-boyfriend isn’t the coolest thing ever and Mickey being there changes what she gets to do. Now she has to be responsible for him, when before she didn’t even have to be responsible for herself. It would be like going on vacation and then halfway through finding out a coworker is staying next door. I just see it as a life thing, not a love thing.
It's realistic, sure, but if someone I knew IRL acted that way, I wouldn't like it and I sure as hell would call them on it. A character being realistic is a good thing, but I have problems with the notion that we should like them as people JUST because of that. We don't like all the real people we interact with, after all; why shouldn't we dislike a character because of how they act?
Yes, she's happy to include Sarah Jane… but not Mickey?
But then she mouthed "Don't" to the Doctor when Mickey wanted to come.
And honestly, I'm more annoyed at the painful sexist trope of having two female characters threatened by each other and reduced to fighting over a man.
At least they ended up having a mutual giggle at his Tardis fondling ways? lol
Haha, yes. XD
That was the best part of the episode for me.
THIS.
I think that the "women fight over a man" trope is usually annoying, but not so much in this case because it's not actually about the man. It's about both of the women dealing with what the man did to them. It's about Rose being scared that she's looking her future in the face. It's about Sarah Jane feeling abandoned and replaced. Those feelings end up expressing themselves in the women being petty towards each other, but in the end it really isn't about who gets the Doctor at all.
I agree, I think it's not about who gets the man in the romantic sense, it's about who gets to have awesome Doctor adventures. I mean, being the Doctor's companion is not just about being around dreamy David Tennant (sigh), it's about getting to see THE UNIVERSE. Who wouldn't be jealous?
/late to the party
Yes. I agree with you SO MUCH.
As to the hating on Rose (AND/OR Sarah Jane) going on throughout these threads, like, whatever, everyone is allowed to have bad days where they act like an ass. That's just human.
Yes, and it's a loathsome injustice to her character. That's not the Sarah Jane of before or after this episode. (Rose's jealousy is a consistent character trait.) But since "School Reunion" did give us SJA, I can bring myself to overlook this. 😛
Honestly, as much as I disliked the behaviour itself, I felt that at least Rose was acting like a normal human being here. I didn't find her half as irritating as in Tooth and Claw.
Oh yeah, how she acted in T&C was definitely worse, no argument there. I just remember being really annoyed at her behavior at the end of this one too.
Oh yeah, she was definitely worse in T&C, no argument there.
"the serial that address the Time War"
It happened sometime between the old show and the new show, so you know as much a longtime fan did at this point.
"But she does get her own show, yes?"
Yeah, "The Sarah Jane Adventures," just finished its fourth season.
Just watched the third season, as it just came out in the US. I can't wait for the 4th, but I'm sure it'll be another year before I can see it. It would be nice if BBC America would play it or it would be available on iTunes or something.
Yeah, I was going to say, don't hold your breath for a serial that explains the Time War; that's not in the old series' at all, it's purely a Russel T Davies invention to sort of separate the old show from the new one.
Yeah the plot as an actual plot doesn't make masses of sense…but it really was just a vehicle to bring back Sarah Jane and K9 which, for anyone who saw the programme in the old series, was OMG SO EXCITING THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER! I for one was so busy squeeing that I never gave the actual plot more than five seconds thought. 😛 (Although the Skasis Paradigm I think wasn't completed so presumably when the school blew up all the files did too on the computers and so unless some super aliens manage to work it out, it's unlikely to be a problem.)
And yes, she gets her own show! Which is adorable and lovely and if you do have time I think you should watch at some point because it's adorable, though you might not want to blog about it, IDK. You have a lot of stuff on the list for blogging about!
Also, assuming you meant the old series, there is no serial which addresses the Time War. Old RTD invented it because he thought it would be interesting, and also mean he didn't have to worry about trying to introduce new viewers to the complicated mess of Gallifreyan history! (If you are interested, then Chameleon Circuit wrote a rocking song called Gallifreyan History 101 explaining it. Not the Time War though. For that, there must be patience.)
OMG chameleon circuit are the best thing ever!
here the song on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2ldOzms47c&fe…
I KNOW RIGHT?! <33333
Although Mark should not listen to all of their songs yet because of the spoilers! But Gallifreyan History 101 is perfectly acceptable for now. 🙂
Yeahhhhh, the plot isn't the greatest. I'll admit that. But I don't really mind too much, there are often plot holes in some of the filler episodes. To me that's part of the show's… charm. 😛
Weirdly, I don't agree with you on the SJ issue. I don't know; even though I didn't know who she was when I first watched this episode, I still felt some kind of connection with her. My dad had told me she was "an old companion", and I thought the screenplay conveyed her relationship with the Doctor pretty well – particularly the conversation they had about companions 'growing old and dying', or whatever.
Although, I have to admit, I am not a fan of Elisabeth Sladen. She's okay in classic!Who, but I really don't like her in new!Who or SJA. :/
K-9, on the other hand… 😛
I'm the same. All I knew about Sarah Jane was that she was a former companion and that K-9 used to have a kids show that popped up on the odd tv list but I still loved them in this episode. Maybe it's just the Doctor's obvious care and affection for them makes you like and trust them. He clearly remembers them fondly. (Which could just as much be David Tennant as a fanboy coming through.)
If I recall correctly, the Krillitane oil wasn't toxic to everyone but children – it was just toxic to the Krillitane.
I've never seen any of Sarah Jane's older serials, but I know that she was my dad's favorite companion. She was a companion for the Third and Fourth Doctors, and I know you already liked the Fourth Doctor, so maybe someone will recommend a Sarah Jane serial for the next one? =D
If I recall correctly, the Krillitane oil wasn't toxic to everyone but children – it was just toxic to the Krillitane.
Yes, this is what I thought too. The lunch lady that got burned early in the episode was one of the Krillitane in disguise. Rose was snacking on the oil the whole time they were back on Earth.
This classic Absurdly Long Comment by Karen has been brought to you by the letter ‘J’ for jetlag… meaning I had nothing better to do at odd hours of the night last night than to pre-type up a comment for this entry. LOL. (Also I'm finally being forced into multiple comments. Woe.)
This is one of my favorite episodes from series 2. Plot, schmot. (Actually the plot here, in spite of not quite making sense, is actually rather good in that it forces the Doctor to confront some major Time War issues and whether he can control time or history and if he should which is some great thematic exploration.) The real star of this episode is all the various character pairings, interactions and development that we get.
First of all, K-9!!!!! I love K-9. Lol. He is one of my favorite things from Classic Who and even though the first time I saw this episode, I did not have a proper appreciation for him, he is now one of my favorite things.
Bringing Sarah Jane back allows for some nice little Time Lord angst. As someone from the Doctor’s past (pre-Time War), she can better appreciate what it means for the Time Lords to all be dead and for Gallifrey to be destroyed. It was also a good exploration about what happens to the people the Doctor leaves behind.
This brings me to the other reason Sarah Jane was brought back: to give Rose a bit of a shock. I mean, Rose knows that the Doctor is old. She knows he’s been around for a while, but I think that it honestly never occurred to her that he traveled with other people before or even if it did, it’s one thing to know there were other people but it’s an entirely different thing to meet them. So meeting Sarah Jane was a bit of a slap in the face and a wake up call. Of course when Rose first meets her, she’s going to be a bit rankled. Rose isn’t the only one at fault here. Sarah Jane snipes just as much as Rose does. Sarah Jane is a bit jealous of Rose. The tone in her voice when she asks if Rose was with the Doctor on Christmas Day is heart breaking. This tension results in some amusing dialogue about mummies and ghosts. But then it becomes awesome. Rose and Sarah Jane realize how silly they’ve been and they bond over how ridiculous the Doctor is.
Rose Tyler: With you, did he do that thing where he’d explain something t like 90 miles per hour and you’d go “what?” and he’d look at you like you’d just dribbled all over your shirt?
Sarah Jane Smith: All the time! Does he still stroke bits of the Tardis?
Rose Tyler [starting to giggle]: Yeah! He does! I’m like, “Do you two want to be alone?”.
<img src=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/GuyCrazy1017/Doctor%20Who%20screencaps/2x03roseandsarahjanelaughing.jpg>
<img src=&rdquo ;http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/GuyCrazy1017/Doctor%20Who%20screencaps/2x03thedoctorisnotamused.jpg”>
The Doctor is not amused.
Anyway, the fact of Sarah Jane and the fact that the Doctor had never mentioned her (or anyone else that he traveled with) causes Rose to reexamine her place in the Doctor’s life. Will he just leave her behind one day and then forget about her? How does she fit into his life? Should she stay with him? I love that little conversation that Sarah Jane and Rose have at the end of the episode.
Sarah Jane: Hey you! What’s 47 times 369?
Rose: It’s gone now. The oil’s faded.
Sarah Jane: But you’re still clever. More than a match for him. [sidenote: fuck yeah she is! Suck it, haters.]
Rose: You and me both.
[…]
Sarah Jane: Well, I better go.
Rose: What do I do? Do I stay with him?
Sarah Jane: Yes. Some things are worth getting your heart broken for.
I think that it’s interesting that this little moment of doubt that Rose has about her life decisions comes in an episode where Rose was working undercover as a dinner lady because really, without the Doctor, those jobs would have been her future. In “Rose” after the Doctor blows up the shop where Rose works, Jackie suggests to Rose that she apply for a job at the hospital’s canteen. So it’s actually incredibly plausible that Rose would have been stuck working in a job like the one she’s working undercover in. Would it have been better for her to have never met the Doctor and just worked a menial job? She wouldn't get her heart broken, but she wouldn't have seen all the amazing things that she's seen either. And of course, Rose chooses to keep traveling because that's who she is.
Meeting Sarah Jane also causes Rose to reevaluate how the Doctor views her. Is she just another person in a long line of people he travels with and then leaves behind?
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/GuyCrazy1017/Doctor%20Who%20screencaps/2x03roselisteningtothedoctor.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/GuyCrazy1017/Doctor%20Who%20screencaps/2x03doctortalkingtorose.jpg">
Rose Tyler: How many of us have there been, traveling with you?
The Doctor: Does it matter?
Rose Tyler: Yeah it does, if I’m just the latest in a long line.
The Doctor: As opposed to what?
Rose Tyler: I thought you and me were… Well, I obviously got it wrong. I've been to the year five million, but this, this is really seeing the future- you just leave us behind! Is that what you're going to do to me?
The Doctor: No. Not you.
Rose Tyler: But, Sarah Jane- you were that close to her once, and now… you never even mention her. Why not?
The Doctor: I don't age. I regenerate. But humans decay. You wither and you die. Imagine watching that happen to someone you…
Rose Tyler: What, Doctor?
The Doctor: You can spend the rest of your life with me. But I can't spend the rest of mine with you. I have to live on, alone. That's the curse of the Timelords.
So is Rose just another person he's picked up along the way? The answer to that is “no”. The Doctor doesn’t ever plan to leave Rose. And Rose makes her choice at the end of this episode to stay with the Doctor. Now people say that Rose is clingy (GIVING YOU THE SIDE EYE RIGHT NOW, FANDOM), but I would say that the Doctor is just as “clingy”. He’s not planning on leaving her behind. They just want to continue to travel together. Nothing wrong with that. Anyway, I think this is the first moment where it is clear that Ten is in love with Rose
As a closing thought, I wanted to look at Mickey and Rose. I think that by this point, they’ve firmly settled into the “just friends” role. And I love them as friends.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/GuyCrazy1017/Doctor%20Who%20screencaps/2x03roseandmickey.jpg”>
Mickey Smith: You see, what's impressive is we met her nearly an hour ago and I still haven't said "I told you so" yet.
Rose Tyler: I'm not listening to this.
Mickey Smith: Though I have prepared a little "I was right" dance which I can show you later.
And of course, I like that little bit of jealousy that Rose shows when Mickey joins Team Tardis at the end of the episode. She feels like Mickey is intruding on something that is HERS and it irks her. She’s not always the most mature person around, but in light of what she went through earlier in the episode, her sullen attitude makes sense. She already feels like she’s nothing special, and now Mickey is going to be coming along? I can see why it hurts. Also, I didn’t talk about it much, but there’s a good natured friendliness and teasing between Mickey and the Ten here that we didn’t quite get with Mickey and Nine. It warms my heart. They’re becoming friends! I like it.
I really want to see Mickey's "I was right" dance…
Wow, haha. Great comments. I'm okay with the iffy plot because it really is overshadowed by the characters. I'm glad they addressed what time travel means for the companions, that Rose has to reflect on her position in all of this, and that it's still funny. I like that there's an attitude of "'tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all," towards traveling with the Doctor. Sure, it sucks to that he might leave you behind or outlive you, but think of the amazing things you get to see!
Does the Doctor ever really plan to leave any of his Companions though? Not just Rose but the rest of them.
Not usually, but I can think of at least two instances where the Doctor plans to leave a Companion behind.
They nearly always leave him. So those companions get a feeling of closure. Those who he does leave behind might have a problem.
I think that's great insight into Rose with the dinner lady job.
I have to say that I interpret things a little differently. I admit that I'm part of the faction that really, really hates the idea of Ten/Rose romance (I just don't see a 900-year-old alien falling head-over-heels in love with any human ever), but I don't think the Doctor meant that he fully intended to keep travelling with Rose for ever and ever. He's only ever gone "right, that's enough time with me, now get on with your life" and left the companion behind once, and that was a rather different relationship. He doesn't want them to leave, but he knows that they have to, and I think Rose isn't an exception here. He's just given a speech on how painful it is for both parties, and I think he sort of knows that all companions will have to leave eventually, and he plans to let it happen when the time comes.
I don't mind the idea of a Time Lord/human romance, I just don't like the way these two are written together (and I word it that way because I'm no great fan of Ten either, and certainly don't ship him with myself, that's not why I'm not a Rose fan). That said, I don't see any one person being the ONE TRUE LOVE FOREVER AND EVER of ANYONE who lives that long. I think people that long-lived would be capable of having multiple great loves of their life; humans certainly can have more than just one really passionate relationship, and we have much shorter lifespans, lol. So the "OTP" thing doesn't work for me with races like Time Lords for that reason. But that's just my opinion, borne from years of working with fandoms/original fic that deals with immortal or long-lived races even before I got into DW.
The problem I have with Doctor/Rose is that, most of the time, it means Ten/Rose, and I think there's something about them a bit off. Or maybe I just ship Nine/Rose and Ten is just a different man.
And yes, agreed on the OTP thing. It's usually anoying but in this case? So much more.
I am a huge fan of Ten, but not with Rose. They bring out the worst in each other IMO.
They really do.
Oh yeah, I have no problem with Nine/Rose, because I prefer Nine to Ten and liked Rose more in the first season. Although my preference would actually be a Nine/Rose/Jack OT3, lol. WHAT CAN I SAY, I LIKE TRIOS AND UNCONVENTIONAL STUFF.
OMG YOU DIDN'T JUST FORGET THE TARDIS
DOCTOR/TARDIS OTP.
I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO
That's pretty much my opinion of Doctor/Human shipping. Its clear that he interacts easily and enjoys humans, and I can see that slipping into romantic feeling. (And I think it does with TenXRose). But I can't see it being 'One True Pairing'. Even in everyday life, with average life-spans, if one spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend outlives the other, they'll tend to find another person to view romantically. The Doctor's just a little bit tragic because there's really only a handful of sentient beings in the universe that he could have a /long/ relationship with, romantic or not.
That's why I tend to avoid shipping DoctorXHuman (Okay, I tend to avoid shipping altogether, but that's not the point). I know its going to end up badly for the human, and for the Doctor, so I'd much prefer to stick to HumanXHuman ones, which seem to promise a happier ending.
IA. For all the concentrating RTD does on emotions and relationships, he really seems to gloss over that. I think this episode is probably the best we get/got in that regards? And still, what a missed opportunity to have a wisened Doctor explain to a naive Rose that life is long, and one relationship doesn't necessarily have any baring on another. She wouldn't be his first, and may not be his last, but damned if they aren't here and now and feeling for each other. I think that conversation would lend a lot of maturity to this relationship, and improve it in the eyes of a lot of people. As it is, RosexDoctor OTP seems a little childish. Nine did work better in this respect; I don't know if it's just because Eccleston brought age to the role that Tennant for all his talent just can't capture, or if it's something else entirely, but yeah.
I would have LOVED a conversation like that.
I agree, Eccleston managed to convey the Doctor's age in a way the Tennant never really did (and don't get me wrong, there are aspects of Ten I love). Nine/Rose always seemed like a more natural relationship, romance-wise, than Ten/Rose.
And still, what a missed opportunity to have a wisened Doctor explain to a naive Rose that life is long, and one relationship doesn't necessarily have any baring on another. She wouldn't be his first, and may not be his last, but damned if they aren't here and now and feeling for each other.
Because I take a "loved them all" view of the major companions, I would have liked Ten about 500% more if he'd just said that. Instead he chooses silences and denial and shiny distractions for the most part, which always made me think less of his relationship with Rose.
This. All of this. I have blinders on when it comes to Rose. I love her and ignore when she’s being silly.
Um yeah. It is elitist. I was a straight-A student myself. I went to one of the top 30 schools in the US for undergrad and I'm currently doing a graduate degree at one of the top schools in the UK. And yet I can actually look at Rose's situation. These aren't spoilers because it wasn't ever mentioned on screen, but her backstory is elaborated on more in the 2005 annual. She didn't drop out of school because she was stupid, she left school because she was 16 and thought she was in love with her older boyfriend whom she moved in with. He ended up using her and she ended up in debt with no where to go. When she realized what an idiot she was, she moved back in with her mum which is where we meet her in series 1. She made some bad decisions, obviously, but she was young and made mistakes in her life. But she IS clever. She figures things out and notices things sometimes even before the Doctor does. Intelligence isn't measured by schooling.
I think that it's pretty obvious that Ten loves Rose (I mean they're constantly just grinning stupidly at each other, they clearly love being together). It's obvious in the way that David and Billie play it, and it's obvious in the dialogue and the stories themselves. But if you don't see it, I guess you don't see it.
And ugh. I hate that fanart. It's really petty and misreprsents what Rose was going through in this episode. The Doctor keeps going on about he ~The Last of the Time Lords~ and he NEVER mentioned any of his previous companions. Why are we expecting her to know about them? I mean he was obviously a very lonely man when he first met her. She really had no reason to believe that there were others before her. And even if she did, it's still a huge slap in the face to meet one. Rose's issue was more that she was confronting her own future. Her relationship with the Doctor meant so much to her (much like it once did to Sarah Jane), but now it seems like the Doctor has completely forgotten about Sarah Jane. I think anyone would feel a bit insecure after an experience like that. For an analogy, if I had a boyfriend all of a sudden we ran into a woman and he introduced as a woman he had once dated for several years and I'd never heard of her before, I'd be really hurt.
Yes, agreed with all of this. I think Rose is a wonderful introduction to this show because part of the show's major theme is that the ordinary is/can be extraordinary.
People keep commenting about Rose thinking she was the only companion, but to me their conversation in this episode is about whether or not he loves her. And I think it's obvious that he does, and that it's the story the writers are going for, but for Rose this episode throws doubt over all of that.
The Doctor inviting her ex-boyfriend along for the ride would only make that insecurity worse.
Eh. I find Rose's drama to be kinda immature and annoying. She may be more intelligent than she seems, but since her purpose in most of the plots is to wander aimlessly into trouble, I don't find it helps her image. Now to be fair, her personality ends up being in rather stark contrast to some of the companions we see later. Rose didn't bother me nearly so much until I had seen later seasons and then rewatched episodes. And she is a lot less irritating with Nine than Ten.
Loving being together is not the same as being in love. I think the Doctor enjoys the lark of his crazy adventures. I think he's a lot LESS attached to any individual companion, which is why he seems to forget them (or not think about them) after they aren't around anymore. The Doctor himself has some massive issues with morals (ie, being against violence but totally being okay with mass murder and genocide as long as it's defending people HE likes) and I think he's very, very bad at relationships. The focus on romance with Rose and Ten grates on me a lot.
Personally, if I met someone who was hundreds of years old, I think I'd assume he'd probably, you know, had some friends and family at SOME point, whether he was the last survivor or not. I don't know.
Rose has her purpose I guess, and for various reasons, I just don't personally like her. To each their own? I know a lot of people have issues with That Other Character who shows up, who I really love. I should have probably edited my comment a bit more, but my computer was locking up and I had other obligations that kept me away from home. :/
Just for references sake, you can't drop out of high school in the UK, it's a legal requirement that 5-16 year olds attend high school. Now they're raising that to further education too.
I'm pretty sure you can't drop out of high school until you're 16 or 17 in most U.S. states, either.
People do poorly or drop out of school for all sorts of reasons, and a lot of time it's influenced by their home life, social situation and personal difficulties. It doesn't make them stupid or pathetic or a lesser person. There's much more to life than formal education.
I know this, and I should have clarified. I'm well aware that all sorts of socio-economic factors can keep a person out of school. However… Rose doesn't seem to have had any sort of abusive/poverty/difficult situation going on, she seems like a well-off middle-class girl who just… didn't pass her final tests? I don't really know exactly what "not getting A-levels" means, it just sounds like she needs to go back and get her GED. I don't know. With the little information we're given, it sounds like if she really wanted to make something more of her life, she had ample opportunity, but instead she just worked in a shop and didn't really do anything. Why not be more proactive?
Anyway, that's sort of a separate debate. I'm going to edit the original comment as it was poorly phrased, but I'm still just not a real fan of Rose. I suppose I just prefer my heroines a bit more confident.
She dropped out to follow an older boyfriend. Not a good decision, but I don't think less of her for that. She annoys me for other reasons.
Thanks for clarifying. I don' t think she's well-off exactly — someone else on here is probably more knowledgeable about this than I am, but she's living on a housing estate working a low-paid job, and she, Mickey and Jackie all read to me as working-class. And she didn't seem unhappy, in the first episode, so I'm not sure she did want to improve things. I mean, she wouldn't want to go back to it now, but that's because the Doctor has shown her something different.
Anyway, yeah, I can understand some people not liking Rose, but I don't think her lack of qualifications reflects badly on her. Some people 'click' with formal schooling and some people don't, and that doesn't tell us anything about what kind of person they are and what they are capable of.
Heh. Despite Billie playing her as a middle-class girl with a lower-class accent pastede on, Rose the character is actually supposed to be kinda poor! So is Mickey! (And Jackie, of course.) They all live in subsidized housing–what they call a council estate in Britain–and work blue collar jobs–Rose in a shop, Jackie as a hairdresser, and Mickey in a garage–and are pretty much supposed to be the kind of people you'd see on Eastender's.
If Rose has her GSCEs/O-Levels, which I think she does, then she actually does have her GED/diploma equivalent. You can leave school at sixteen-ish in Britain or you can stay an extra year or two (I forget which) and sit exams called A-Levels, which pretty much determine if you can get into university or not, especially if you're poor-ish like Rose and would more than likely need a scholarship.
Or, to put it into Harry Potter terms, GSCEs/O-Levels are OWLs and A-Levels are NEWTs. Or that's my (admittedly non-British) understanding of it.
( I'm kind of Rose-neutral myself. I like her well enough as a character, though she'll never be my favorite or even in my top ten, but her more rabid fangirls drive me bugfuck crazy.)
Sarah Jane Smith was the first woman I was ever in love with.
And I still am. Tee hee!
If you ever get a minute to catch your breath, you should watch an episode of the Sarah Jane Adventures. It’s got more plot holes than a plot holey thing.
I, of course, love it to itty bitty pieces and totally have a cross stitch sampler that says Mary Sue <3s Sarah Jane Smith.
Because that's how I roll.
I love Sarah Jane! But I'm not in love with her, mostly I love her like I love my mom. She is very mom-like to me and reminds me a great deal of my mom, not only in personality but in looks. She looks so friggin like my mom!
BUT. I love the SJA also! And so does my mom. Because she's cool like that.
Yes, Sarah Jane gets her own show. It's a kid's show (which I know DW is supposed to be, but think of it as more…Torchwood is for adults, The Sarah Jane Adventures are for children, and Doctor Who is a happy mixture of both that everyone can enjoy), but it's kind of enjoyable if you're the kind of person who sometimes watches cartoons on Saturday morning despite no longer being in their target age group.
I didn't know who Sarah Jane was when we first met her in this episode, but the episode still got to me. But just FYI, she's the companion in "Genesis of the Daleks," which is the episode of old school!Who I recommended you watch first. If you had, you'd know who she was. CLEARLY, I KNOW ALL THE THINGS. (That was a joke…apparently sarcasm does not transcend the internet…)
(Splitting comment due to length.)
Unfortunately K-9 isn't around much after. Something to do with them not really owning the rights or something…I'm not sure. It's a confusing mess of British law but…yeah. They apparently don't have the rights to keep him around.
And yes, Mickey agreed to travel with them and Rose was a brat about it.
For me, this episode only serves to highlight how jealous, immature, and bratty Rose is. He's 900+ years old, Rose. You really think he's never had a friend before? What is wrong with her?
Oh, and I don't think the oil was toxic to anyone who wasn't a kid, I think they said it was toxic to the creatures because they'd mutated so much. That's why the cafeteria person who got it on her was screaming–she was one of the creatures. Rose, the Doctor, or Mickey could've touched it just fine (and the Doctor did). The issue with why they had to escape before K-9 opened the barrels was more that the blast/explosion/whatever would've hurt them.
For me, this episode only serves to highlight how jealous, immature, and bratty Rose is. He's 900+ years old, Rose. You really think he's never had a friend before? What is wrong with her?
It's one thing to know something and another thing to experience it. I might know that my boyfriend has had a girlfriend before, but meeting her is a whole different story. But yeah, Rose had a tendency to be jealous. So does the Doctor (see also: how he behaved around Mickey and Jack). Is the Doctor also immature and bratty?
Is the Doctor also immature and bratty?
Ten? Oh, God, yes, so much! But strangely enough, Nine treated those other men worse than Ten, I hated the way Nine treated Mickey.
lol. Yeah. When I asked that question I realized that the answer was yes. Ten is a total immature douche a lot of the time AND I LOVE HIM FOR IT. lol. Maybe I just like awful characters seeing as I love both Ten and Rose.
Yea, I love Ten and Rose also. I love the fact Rose is not perfect, gets jealous and has a row with Sarah Jane. And I love that Sarah Jane is 58-ish (Elizabeth is really 62) and still just goes right on arguing.
I should also briefly mention that Sarah Jane looks just like my mom and acts just like my mom and has hairstyles and hair color just like my mom and I have problems not just thinking of her as my mom. Or a mom figure.
Anyway, I love Rose. Maybe I'm a brat, but I do identify with her jealousy. I wouldn't have been quite so immature about it, I don't think. But I would have been jealous.
Haha, THIS.
Ten? Yes, he is DEFINITELY immature and bratty! Hugely so. Nine was, too, to a lesser extent, but he had bigger things on his mind (The Time War) for that to be a truly dominant trait, so it only showed up around Adam or Mickey and was kept at bay for most of the rest of the show. Eleven is a little immature, but I'd hardly call him bratty. But yes, the Doctor, in general, is immature and bratty. Rose is just SO MUCH WORSE about it.
Sorry, I know you're trying to defend her, but I mostly just want to punch Rose in the face during her entire tenure on this show. (And I'd like to state, lest someone accuse me of it, I absolutely adore Billie Piper and her acting. She does amazing things with what she's given. Unfortunately, she wasn't often given much to work with.)
lol. Yeah, as I said above: When I asked that question I realized that the answer was yes. Ten is a total immature douche a lot of the time AND I LOVE HIM FOR IT. lol. Maybe I just like awful characters seeing as I love both Ten and Rose.
I actually think that Ten is way worse about it, but that would include spoilers. So I'll just say "series 3" and leave it at that.
Ten is no saint. He's hugely flawed. I like him, though, because he has many redeeming qualities. I've never been able to find one in Rose. Well, no, that's not exactly true, she does have some, but they're nothing unique to her–i.e. she's certainly self-sacrificing, and I can see that, but so were many of the other companions.
Sigh. Basically, I like to pretend that huge chunks of s1-s3 didn't happen because I hate romance on this show between a Doctor and a companion. It bogs the entire show down for me and it brings out the worst in everyone involved–it makes Mickey petulant, it makes Rose bratty, it makes Nine rude and Ten, too, and while I can't get into what it makes Ten in S3 due to spoilers, it doesn't make him or his S3 companion great human beings, either. If we could just cut that entire idea out of the show and have a platonic Doctor/Companion relationship, I'd be right as rain.
As much nice as I have to say about Rose, and for the same reasons as Karen, I agree COMPLETELY about season 3. Ohmigod completely.
My reaction to Doctor/Companion romance of any sort on this show is pretty much the same as Mark's is over on Mark Reads The Hunger Games. DO NOT WANT ROMANCE. JUST GET BACK TO THE ACTION AND REVOLUTION AND TIME TRAVEL.
It basically brings out these character's worst traits. Even if you're a fan of Rose, it's impossible to deny that it brings out her jealous, selfish side, and it brings out the Doctor's dickish one. Whether you choose to like the character is totally up to you, but those are facts and are demonstrable. And frankly, I'd rather cut the whole romance aspect out if all it does is bring out a person's worst side, on both sides of the equation. Same with S3. The Doctor is callous and clueless, the companion is weak-willed and over-eager. I firmly believe that all the characters involved in that–Nine, Mickey, Rose, Ten, S3 Companion, etc–were worse people for being involved in it.
Love makes you do the whacky, I guess, and Whoniverse characters tend to already be fairly whacky to begin with.
I want to upvote this into infinity, but cannot. Woe.
Haha, okay. Well I actually just started reading The Hunger Games for the first time so I should go check that out at some point.
Romance is my favorite thing, if it's done right. In my opinion, it makes 2D people into 3D people. So as much as I've said it before, I'm gonna say I disagree and that I think what RTD did with the romance was amazing. My eyes tend to get all shiny and big, like a chibi. 😉
I am a girl in this respect. I get bored to death with too much action. I know, it doesn't make that much sense, but I've definitely tuned out big explosiony fighty bits and gone to get a drink. Those aren't what interest me. People are what interest me, and how they deal with a screwed up crazy world. Honestly, Rose has some problems dealing with it. But I would too.
I also love that the Doctor has problems. I love that he's not only wacky (it's cute, but) he's also got a heart (or two). And romance and goodness come with a heart, as does bitterness and sadness. And I just can't see someone being completely platonic all the time with a person that they go through all of this crazy stuff with. Obviously, he did in his past lives. But I didn't see that, so my first real impression of the Doctor was first of Nine and the hugging and hand holding and kiss and the end, and then of Ten. So Doctor Who means some great romancey-loveliness for me.
I do remember having this thought (and I don't know the genders of all of you, but) that the show does seem to be targeted more heavily at women than most other shows of its ilk. Just as a generic 'target audience', not to stereotype. But I'm a fan, so.
I didn't realize Mark didn't like the romance. I guess I didn't get that from his Firefly reviews.
There's more to a person than their romantic entanglements. Some people simply do not have them. It doesn't mean they're not a 3D person. And the Doctor has had platonic relationships with his companions in the new series, too.
On the whole, I prefer my Doctor either completely asexual, or love-interest-of-the-week with a guest star rather than a regular companion. I firmly believe you could have the sorts of adventures he and his companions get up to and never cross that line, as has been shown on this series with other companions.
I want action and silliness and human drama of the moral and ethical and political type from Doctor Who, not something I could get on any other show on the planet like romance.
Which is why Moffat-era Who is my favorite Who (there, I said it, though I'm fairly sure it was obvious before). I'm not entirely opposed to romance on this show, just romance between a Doctor and a Companion.
And for the record, I am in fact a girl and that fact has little to no bearing on my opinion of romance and action on this or any other show.
Yes, and I know. If we're talking series 2-4, however, there was always a motivation behind the Doctor's eyes and in what he did that added something HUGE to what was going on. There's the death of the Timelords in there, a massively giant pit of a black hole that should make anyone a moping walking sobby mess from time to time and then there's Rose. His two biggest motivations to do what he does. I think one of the reasons I love the show so much is that those motivations are Always There. No matter what is going on, there are decisions he's making based on those motivations. At least, that is how I viewed it. And that's what I'm calling '3D'. A rounded character that has good and bad motivations. In that way I totally understand why he can be a whiny bitch as much as Rose.
See, and I really dislike love-interest-of-the-week. It's okay, but. There's no way you could fall in love with someone in 5 minutes. You fall in love with someone you're spending a lot of time with and you really understand and know. Which is why I don't see how he can fall in love with anyone other than his companions. There's been some cute love-interests-of-the-week, and I appreciate them, but to me they add nothing to WHO the Doctor is.
I do like Moffat-era Who, but it always seems like it is missing something for me.
Perhaps when I used the term "love-insterest-of-the-week" I misspoke. What I mean is, for instanace, in the episode that Mark will be watching next, with the character that is in that episode. It's a bit of a stretch to call what Ten feels for her "love," but he does have feelings for her and he is affected by what happens in that episode. I think it further re-inforces whe he says to Rose in "School Reunion." The people in his life die. He endures. It's the curse of the Time Lords. And I get that same feeling from "The Girl in the Fireplace" as I do from anything involving his actual Companions. Only with "love-interest-of-the-week" (and again, I use the term "love" here loosely) I don't have to put up with episode after episode of both Ten and The Girl in said fireplace being selfish, rude, and bitchy.
Ok, see I don't. I get something really big with Rose and Ten that I don't get with Ten and the Girl. (Hurry up Mark and post that so I can say her name ;P) If I felt the same way about the little crushes the Doctor gets from time to time and the way that they portray his feelings about Rose, I might feel more like you. Maybe I'm inserting stuff that isn't there, which could be happening and I've been known to do it, but the reason that I like season 2 so much is because of the relationship between the Doctor and Rose. Not just the romantic-ness, but the fact that they seem to click so well and compliment each other so well. To me, his other companions don't click in the same way. And obviously, not his love-of-the-weeks. I can see them spending the rest of Rose's life together. It's heartbreaking that the Doctor would watch Rose grow old, but I think it's better to have loved and lost, as is the mantra of Doctor Who.
I'm going to reply to your other post because I actually agree with you somewhat there– the next companion is frustrating and annoying, and I just want to kick her the crap out of the TARDIS all the time. I think my reasons are different than yours, but I really don't like her because of that and I see how it's distracting. That stupid thing throughout s3 is the reason why s3 is my least favorite. And I love all the rest of the companions. … Actually, my mom just named a new puppy after one of the companions I love. She already had a cat named Lily-Rose so she went for the next best one. With the next best name. 😉
Lastly. Did it say 'shit just got real' at the top before today? O.o;;
Frankly, I think the difference is that a lot of people here seem to ship Ten/Rose and I absolutely do not. I don't know if that's the case with you in particular–you speak of their feelings for each other, so that seems to indicate that you do, but I try not to assume things–frankly, I loathe Rose so much as a character that even if I could see the supposed romantic relationship between them, I could never bring myself to care.
And to be honest, the entire reason I decided to watch DW was that I was watching Torchwood (something I seriously regret, oh RTD, how I loathe you entirely) and S3 Companion was on there and seemed, from only knowing her as she exists in that episode, fairly cool. I decided to give DW a try. Imagine my shock and dismay to find how annoying and awful and stupid her entire arc on DW was.
Perhaps that set me so dead-against romance between a Doctor and a Companion. It's possible. But I think a lot of people disliked her solely because she wasn't Rose and HOW DARE anyone have feelings for Ten! HOW DARE THEY! ROSE WAS HIS ONE TWU LURVE AND WAS SPECIAL AND HE WAS NEVER ALLOWED TO BE HAPPY AGAIN AFTER HER OR RETROACTIVELY BEFORE HER, EITHER!
And for the record, I never said it was impossible for him to fall in love with a Companion, only that I dislike the idea of it and the way it is portrayed on the show and wish it didn't exist. It's for that reason that I like Moffat-era so much. There is certainly romance there, but it's between other characters, leaving the Doctor/Companion relationship to remain platonic, friendly, and frankly, a lot more interesting. Same with Ten's final companion. I found their dynamic much more interesting than a girl mooning over the Doctor while he either returns the affection but unwillingly because he knows how it must end or he behaves callously to said Companion's feelings and ignores them because it's simply more convenient for him (which applies to both the S3 companion and Jack). Romance between a Doctor and a Companion brings out their worst traits and I'm left aggravated with all parties involved. Romance has a time and a place, but it's not in the year Four Billion and 5 while trying to stop a planet from imploding. It's not on the TARDIS. Not for me, anyway.
So agreed, especially on Moffat-era Who. Love it so much!
And this is why a certain Companion is my favorite.
If the one you mean is the one I think, SO AGREED.
Probably. I think the Doctor just needs a best friend or the four letter word British term for that, like what Ron is to Harry. Haha, is that vague enough?
Agreed that Ten is worse. I just had the opposite reaction and DIDN'T like him because of it, haha. XD
I have been saving this but I think we're finally out of spoiler territory…. http://www.hungrycats.org/~zblaxell/doctor-who-ro…
As for what's wrong with Rose… sadly this has ALWAYS been who the character is, even RTD has said she's just selfish, but it tends to get hidden as the writers slap loads of 'ain't Rose great!' dialogue everywhere… yeuch.
See, if they didn't have that dialogue, I would have assumed it was the writers' intention to have her appear as selfish and kind of bratty. In fact, I still think that some of the writers intended for her to come off that way.
Ah, but you have to remember that RTD rewrites almost all the scripts for Who. There's only four writers he doesn't, Chibnall, Moffat (naturally) and… the other two escape me right now. If you like I'll dig out the writers tale and check. My pet theory on this one is RTD did intend for her to be a bit selfish and bratty in S1, grow over the course of that season and then kill her off at the end of Parting of the Ways. It would have been a natural story arc, she learnt there was more to life and gave a big heroic sacrifice. Great drama and establishes that no-one's safe in this version of Who. Sadly Ecclestone decided to leave and you can't change both companion and Doctor at the same time (or can you….) so Rose stayed on and… had nowhere to go. Hence the truw wuv thing with Ten and the glossing over of her incredibly selfish nature.
That makes so much sense.
Didn't Eccleston only sign for one season in the first place? I thought he agreed only to one right from the start.
He signed for a year because they weren't sure the revival would last past the first year, I think. His experience lead him to decide pretty early on that he didn't want to renew his contract for a second season. I COULD BE WRONG.
No one knows why he didn't sign up for a second season – we do know that the "typecasting" thing was a lie that the BBC publicity department cooked up, and Eccleston has made some very, very oblique comments about the production being run poorly in the first season, but he's been mum otherwise and so has everyone else involved.
Ahh, yeah, didn't mean to throw in the popular speculation there. The point I was basically trying to make is that I thought I read that he did sign on for one season because they weren't sure the show would take off, and then for whatever reason did not renew his contract after that, not that he had necessarily gone in thinking he would only do a season.
I love that picture so much 🙂 Off-topic, but the artist characterised all the companions perfectly.
Yes, Rose is selfish. I understand that it's not a character trait that appeals to everyone, it is part of who she is. It doesn't define her. She has plenty of other lovely character traits, but Rose is a real character with flaws and one of them is that she can sometimes be selfish and a bit immature. It just makes her more real to me. She can be selfish and great at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive.
I think it's a bit misleading to compare watching The Sarah Jane Advaentures to cartoons. Yes, it's a kids' show, but it has brilliant stories and emotional depth to rival many a grown up drama (and rather more than the so-called adult Torchwod can often manage). I think it should definitely be part of Mark Watches. I know we've already tried to force Torchwood on him, but I really can't recommend SJA highly enough!
Totally agree! Calling it a kids show is like calling Harry Potter children's literature. It may be marketed that way, but it can be enjoyed by all.
I never said it couldn't be enjoyed by everyone. In fact, I specifically stated that it could. I just said that it's more childish than Doctor Who is. You'd never see say, The Angels or The Empty Child or something as resonating and scary as that on The Sarah Jane Adventures. It's target age group is a little bit younger than Doctor Who's. That's all I was trying to say.
I got what you were trying to say. My comment was more in response to nyssa's comment than yours, and more about the general attitude towards some "kids" programming. Sorry if it came out like I was jumping on you. Wasn't my intention at all 🙂
I consider myself a fan of the SJA but brilliant stories? The plot holes are bigger than on DW, and that's saying something. Emotional depth? Not exactly…occasionally, sure, but…I'd hardly call it the most moving of the three, or even of the two spin offs. (And I loathe Torchwood, for the record.)
That said, I really do enjoy the show, but for the same reasons that I enjoy Nickelodeon cartoons occasionally: it's a bit nostalgia and silly fun that doesn't require too much of an emotional investment for me. It's fun and I love that about it. But I really can not take it seriously as far as emotional depth or storytelling. Sorry.
That said, it's worth the watch just for Sarah Jane, my favorite companion ever. 🙂
It's good as far as kids tv goes. I mean if you put all the crap that's coming from Disney these days against SJA it looks like Shakespeare and it does have some genuinely great stories apart from the cheesiness (in a good way) and ridiculous concepts in which being a genius makes hooking a mobile phone up to an alien spaceship as simple as plugging in an USB cable.
>makes hooking a mobile phone up to an alien spaceship as simple as plugging in an USB cable.
It worked for Independence Day!
Anyway, I'm sorry to be contary, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I don't just think it's good `for a kids show`, I stand by my original comment that it stands up to a lot of grown up drama. And my emotional investment in the characters and stories is what keeps me watching.
To be fair, the Sarah Jane Adventures may be the "kid" show of the three, but it's a heck of a lot more emotionally mature than Torchwood generally is. (Team Sarah Jane's more competent too.)
Agree 100%.
I didn't exactly like this episode too much, either. I liked the intro of Sarah Jane even though I didn't know who she was, and her interactions with Rose. And I definitely liked seeing Anthony Head, but not too much else excited me about the episode. It could probably have been better it it was in two parts, I agree.
Being Irish I don’t fully understand the UK education system so I have a small question for any of the Brits here: Do all school have cafeterias? Is it some requirement to provide food? Do you have to pay or is it included in school costs at the start of the year? Random and not relevant I know but I’m curious.
Anyway the episode.
While I understand it can be seen as funny, I really don’t like the animosity between Rose and Sarah Jane. It really rubbed me the wrong way on rewatch, these two great female characters verbally at each other’s throats over a guy. I was so happy when they finally made friends, even though it took most of the episode.
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They went back and forward on the whole Rose and Mickey thing again. At the start she's all happy and wonders he called to she her and at the end she's miffed that he's going to be travelling with them. Equally I wonder what exactly it was that made Mickey change his mind. Maybe the fact he's clearly been keeping his eye on things on earth has made him more curious, or maybe he's no longer afraid of it all.
‘Does he still stroke bits of the TARDIS?’ – TARDIS lovers represent.
Yay for Mickey joining Team TARDIS. I really do love multiple companions.
I love Sarah Jane and K-9 and have an urge to start watching The Sarah Jane Adventures. I have Fringe to finish catching up on first though.
Because the Doctor as a teacher reminded me of this sketch. Don’t worry, it’s totally spoiler free. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxB1gB6K-2A
It’s from Children in Need where Catherine Tate did a sketch with characters from her show and in one of them David Tennant was a sub teacher complete with jokes about his accent and Doctor Who.
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DID YOU JUST PITCH UP FROM MARS?
I am going to be endlessly quoting that ALL FREAKING DAY
"You are the most insolent child I've ever had the misfortune to teach"
"Thank you"
"You are pointless, repetitious and extremely dull"
"Bit like Shakespeare"
You just beat me to posting that. 😀
Haha, sorry. I was expeting loads of people to have posted it already.
So was I, actually. 😀 Awesome sketch is awesome.
Best sketch ever. Love love love.
"Are you English?"
"No, I'm Scottish."
"So you ain't English then."
"No, I'm British."
"So you ain't English then."
Catherine Tate <3
Whenever someone posts this sketch I end up watching it and laughing just as much as the first time I watched it. Brilliant!
Do all school have cafeterias?
Not all, but a lot of them.
Is it some requirement to provide food?
See this page for the History of School Dinners
See this page for the current situation. When I was growing up, a lot of kids chose the hot lunch because it meant that they would get at least one full meal that day.
Thanks for the information. I've often wondered if it was just a tv thing or real life since it's rare for an Irish school to have one and if they do they tend to be posh schools.
I think all schools do have a cafeteria here, but you've got to pay for school meals.
Thanks for answering my question.
Also families on a very low income (mostly non-working parents/working very short hours at minimum wage) get school dinners paid for by the local authority.
Thank you. It's good to know some children are covered like that.
In fact, the data of the percentage of the student body on Free School Meals (FSM) is used as part of the statistics used while analysing schools. It's a pretty good metric for poverty in that school's intake.
Except for when the parents are too embarrassed to admit that they need "charity". It makes me sad face on a regular basis.
My school had neither school dinners nor a cafeteria, but that was probably because it was a fairly small private school. I'm guessing the local Comprehensive had both.
Thanks for the info.
As an American, your question actually surprised me. I take school cafeterias for granted. Now I want to know what you do in Ireland. Does everyone bring lunch from home? Or go out for lunch? Some high schools here allow you to go off-campus for lunch, but that would strike me as odd for younger kids. And what about kids from poor families? I assume there is no national joke about ketchup, our greatest vegetable.
I am way too fascinated by this subject…
Long comment is long:
In primary school (age 4/5 up to 11/12) you bring in a lunch from home. You can sign up (for free) for a small cartoon of milk and a sandwich (cheap bread and it varied between ham or cheese) but I'm not entirely sure if that was all school or just schools that are classified as disadvantaged but I;m nearly sure it's all of them. Plus it really wouldn't cover you for the day. Although they gave you chocolate muffins on Friday 😀 They discontinued them though because of healthy eating.
Secondary school (12/13 to 17/18) you bring in a lunch from home. You're allowed outside for main lunch (most schools have a small morning break and a longer early afternoon lunch) so people can go to the shops or home if you live close enough, though most don't. For example for students in my school there's a large supermarket around the corner, a small shop and garage up the road, and a chinese that's open at lunch on Thursday and Friday so you can get an array of things.
My school also had an over priced sweet shop run out of a closet by a local woman. I think most secondary's have sweet shops of some kind. The students run the shop in my brother's school. Some schools have branched out into vending machines but that's a matter of cost.
I don't think there's any provision for food for students with financial difficulties though but if there was it probably wouldn't last much longer. *grumbles about Irish economy and cuts.*
Needless to say cafeterias and proper dinners for lunch would be a bit of a surprise for most Irish students
Thanks for taking the time to explain! The image of a woman running a sweet shop out of a closet is killing me. It's funny that you guys are moving towards vending machines when we're trying to get them out of schools, though I'm betting that Irish schools don't make exclusive endorsement deals with Pepsi or Coke (I went to Pepsi schools, though I preferred Coke before I renounced soda). It's too bad that there's nothing in place for disadvantaged kids. There are plenty of people here who would be happy to defund the school lunch program, sadly.
I'm sure you can imagine what it was like trying to queue for that shop.
While some schools have them or are looking into them, I don't think vending machines in schools will become widespread. For one there's always the concerns over healthy eating but mainly it's probably be the cost. I know for my old school at least the cost was too high to get any in the first place, never mind maintaining them. I'm guessing the exclusive endorsements in American schools must lower the cost. I've never heard of a school in Ireland doing anything like that.
Weird! As far as I know, all US schools have cafeterias and serve full lunches, usually including milk/fruit/veggies/main course/dessert. At our high school we also had an 'ala carte' option where you could get a bit nicer food separately for more money, to buy things like extra fries or gatorade or whatever. There's also a provision for poor kids to get either reduced price (40 cents) or free lunches depending on the family's situation. I've also read about various programs that are making an effort for poor city kids to also send food home with them over the weekend so they have something to eat then, as well. Some schools are also working to provide breakfast snacks or some kind of trolley to get an early meal– I know our school had a small cart with muffins and such which I used a lot. Regulations and types of food will vary from state to state, but there's always food provided.
It's kind of amazing. I can't imagine having that much available in a school, it's very much bring you're own. The closest you'd get to a dinner type meal is if you bought something at a deli counter at the supermarket or garage.
It would be really great to have some national lunch scheme for children from poorer families.
Hella. Our school had something like 5 different lunch lines, 5 different lunch TIMES (that's what you get for being a school of 2500) starting at 10:30 with each a half an hour until 1:30. We had a salad line, a burgersandfries line, and then some other specific lines I don't even remember. There were vending machines, but at that point why go to a vending machine? Of course, if you went through the line it generally took 10-15 minutes and so you had 10-15 minutes to stuff it down your throat.
I actually always brought lunch and therefore had the whole 30 minutes to eat. And I didn't have to pay for lunch every day.
How can you have lunch at 10:30? That's insane!
I'm British, I went to a state grammar school of about 1600 girls, and we all had the same 45 minute lunchtime. There was a cafeteria but the food wasn't very popular, most of the older girls ate packed lunch since it gave you longer to chat ^_^
I think I was in lunch A one semester (it changed depending on your classes) and you start to get pretty hungry at 3, when school let out. But I'm so lucky I didn't ever have lunch E, because I think I would rather be starving at the end of the day than starving in the middle of the day.
They did that because the food WAS generally popular and most kids stood in line. The burgers and fries were actually always kind of 'funny' tasting (although no one turned into bat creatures as far as I know) but the rest of the food was actually decently good.
GREAT sketch 🙂
I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING.
I got to the, "Are you The Doctor?" "Doctor Who?" part and now i'm crying with laughter.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS.
The best thing about that line- you /know/ its coming. You know what they're going to say. But the comedic timing is so perfect that you laugh anyway!
(Oooh, look. A rhyme!)
The best thing? Tennant and Tate are going to be in Much Ado about nothing in the Summer.
<3
BRB, moving to the UK.
Edit: Please, God, give me a filmed version, please please please, that's all I ask for this year. PLEASE.
Because I'll watch it constantly.
omfg ikr. Flawless casting is flawless. I am lucky enough to have tickets and it'll be my first trip overseas and basically
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can I be you? Where did you acquire tickets because basically I want to do EXACTLY THAT.
It’s playing at Wyndham theatre I think, if you google it you can probably find the online box office. I’d post a link but I am on my phone.
Did they ever put out DVDs of Tennant's performance in Hamlet with Patrick Stewart as Claudius? Because I NEED to see that. D:
It was definitely on the telly, so I imagine so!
It is out on DVD and Blu Ray in Region 2 but I don't know about any others.
I'm sure it's also floating out there in the interwebs somewhere.
It is indeed on region 1 DVD and I think you can view the whole thing on PBS' website. (Dunno what kind of region-locking PBS' website would have… US? idk.)
Yes, they did. I have it. 🙂
Most if not all of the play is also on YouTube.
OMFG. Best casting EVER. I'm assuming Tennant=Benedick and Tate=Beatrice, yes? Like it could be anything else. They better film it.
AS BEATRICE AND BENEDICK? ZOMGZOMGZOMG. WHY AM I A BROKE STUDENT? WHYYYYY?
I adore those two together so much and I adore Beatrice and Benedick so much! Woe! Man, I really hope they film this.
yep 😀
They need to do this in New York, dammit, because everything is about MEEEEE. 😛
"You're pointless, repetitious and extremely dull."
"Bit like Shakespeare then"
Truer words have never been spoken. The best part about born in a country where English isn't the first language is not having to suffer through Shakespeare in school.
I showed that Comic Relief sketch to my English students during a unit on Shakespeare and now they will quote it endlessly to each other. "Bite me, alien boy!" is a favorite 🙂
How have I never seen that?? ::dies laughing::
I really wonder how many of us thought immediately of that video upon reading "I’m not sure that he’s the very best teacher ever, but really, who cares? He’s your physics teacher. " I know I did. Bless you for posting the link!
There’s no serial about the Time War. It takes place between the TV movie and the new series, and it’s referenced to occasionally, but that’s pretty much it.
I definitely felt like Mark before I read this here. I figured there was a Time War in the past and that was the biggest thing I was missing. Especially in this episode. I think it's a testament to RTD that he added that to The Doctor. I think it MAKES him. And I'm sad that this wasn't a part of the Old Doctor at any point, because it's such a defining thing in this series.
I felt sort of the same when I first saw this — mostly because I was like "what" at Sarah Jane and K-9, being a New Who fan — but now that I am a bit more familiar with the show/the universe I like it a lot. ARE YOU ALL READY FOR SOME TEAL DEER? I HOPE SO.
This is one of my very favourite episodes of s2. It has a lot of things I love, which include but are not limited to Sarah Jane, Mickey, evil bat teachers who want to rule the universe using teenagers who've eaten genetically-engineered superfries, the issue of what happens to companions after they leave the Doctor, and baby Ten's first angst (d'aww). I think Sarah Jane and Rose's interaction is really interesting, fuels a lot of character development, and is true to the circumstances. (I will admit upfront that I'm not familiar enough with Classic Who to know whether or not this episode does justice to the Sarah Jane of yore, but I do quite like her.)
BUT whenever I watch it I am also keenly aware that lots of people use this episode as evidence of why Rose is a terrible selfish person etc. As a disclaimer, I am typing this before having read any of the other comments, so this is not directed at any one person in particular but just a lot of things I've seen ~on the internets~. The problems I have with "Rose is jealous in this episode and that is why she is terrible" are in a nutshell:
-As often as I see people complain that Rose is too jealous, I rarely see the same people criticize the Doctor for the times he is petty and jealous — for example, in this episode, with the "pigtails" exchange with Mickey
-Similarly, Sarah Jane "started it" and behaves just as poorly IMO as Rose does for the first bit of the episode
-More importantly, that is only the first bit of the episode, before they both realize how silly they're being and make friends
-Rose has not been watching Classic Who, so even if we know it's ridiculous to think she's the first person to travel with the Doctor, Rose has no way to know that herself because, as the episode says, he's never told her
My biggest issue, though, is because I don't think the point of this episode is to say "look, Sarah Jane and Rose are jealous of each other, silly women" — IMO, the episode is being most critical of the Doctor, and the idea that when a companion leaves he never mentions them again. Rose isn't upset because the Doctor has friends who aren't her; Rose is upset because the Doctor has friends who aren't her, and he's never mentioned them before, ever, and now she's worried this friendship that means so much to her isn't as important to him. No one wants to think that someone they love is going to forget them entirely.
Anyway there stands my defense of Rose Tyler. I do think she is pretty immature at the end with respect to Mickey wanting to come on board, and tbh I'm not even quite sure why — is she like, worried he's going to cockblock her or something, idk — but with Sarah Jane, I think her reactions are understandable and human and not really much different from Sarah Jane's.
I think that Rose feels like Mickey is intruding on something that is "hers", traveling with the Doctor. And this comes after an episode where she's been seriously doubting her life choices and feeling insecure, so I get why she reacts the way that she did.
But waaaah Sarah Jane's actions are totally excusable. Rose's AREN'T because Rose is a romantically viable candidate for the Doctor and I find that threatening! Waaaaah. LOL. Sorry. I am being rude and not ginger rn. Ilu, Kali. In other words, I totally agree with you. People are too hard on Rose for this episode.
Hmm that is true, I never considered it in terms of where she would be at that moment. I guess it perplexes me because she did seem sort of a-okay with Sarah Jane coming along hypothetically, but once it was Mickey she was like "DNW". But Mickey and Rose have a pretty dysfunctional relationship so I suppose that makes sense?
Yeah I think most of the hate lobbed at Rose for this episode is a bit ridiculous (as if my longass comment above did not make that clear). I don't think she behaves any worse than anyone else in this episode, and I dislike the attitude of "how dare Rose, as a mere companion and mortal, assume she might mean something to ~the almighty Doctor~". I don't think it makes you entitled to assume you might mean something to the guy who's been your best friend for over a year now.
Starting to feel like I'm following you around agreeing with you, but yes, this! I can understand some people not liking Rose, that's entirely subjective, but the hate getting piled on her here is surprising me. Thank you for bringing all the logics.
It doesn't surprise me, because I'm around Doctor Who fandom enough to know that Rose is a character people tend to either love, a lot, or hate, passionately, and this is one of her most divisive episodes. BUT as someone who does love her, it makes me sad — or at least the fervor with which people hate her makes me sad. Like monkeybutter said, it really is rather like Ginny Weasley in Harry Potter fandom, lol.
Yeah, can we not? Not everyone who dislikes Rose does so for such juvenile reasons, and the people who dislike her are just as entitled to their opinions as you, they don't deserve to be dismissed like that. It's really disappointing to see this kind of thing here, I was hoping for Mark's blog to be free from ship wars nonsense.
lol. Yeah. I was just messing around with a friend. I just get really frustrated when people use this episode to disparage Rose, but tend to ignore Sarah Jane's part in the pettiness. It wasn't a good look for either of them, yet you never see Sarah Jane get criticized. I'll play nice from now on.
I'm quite honestly more annoyed at the writer for using the sexist trope of having them be threatened by each other and "catfighting" over a man than I am by either of them, when I think back to my initial reactions to that scene. My irritation with Rose at the episode's end still stands, but we can agree to disagree on that.
I'm sure shipping has something to do with it, but I think some of the ire Rose draws might come from her being the current companion and a major character in these seasons of the show, whereas if you don't watch SJA and aren't talking about earlier eras, she's not really worth discussing as a guest character? IDK, I do agree with you though, that they are both definitely petty- and I agree with arctic_hare's post below- the general pettiness of these women upon interacting with each other is annoying and seems kind of sexist in portrayal. But then again you have the Doctor teasing Mickey so maybe everyone on this show is just perpetually 12.
Lol I would suspect more the opposite, in fandom circles at least — Sarah Jane is sacred because she’s a beloved Classic companion for lots of people, whereas with Rose it’s like DAMN KIDS GET OFFA MY LAWN.
I am not a fan of the “women fight over a man” trope, but here I think it’s less about the man and more about what he has done or will do to them. Sarah Jane represents Rose’s future and it’s not a future she likes. Plus, yes, I do think in this episode everyone has reverted to high school attitude. Possibly it’s the setting, lol
Rose isn't upset because the Doctor has friends who aren't her; Rose is upset because the Doctor has friends who aren't her, and he's never mentioned them before, ever, and now she's worried this friendship that means so much to her isn't as important to him.
YES YES YES. THIS. I wish I could up-vote this like, twenty times.
THANKS BB.
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Yeah, I don't know, it seems so clear to me in the episode that the issue here is that the Doctor never speaks of his friends again once they leave, and that's bad, not so much "the Doctor will have other friends and you're not special DEALWITHIT.GIF". Of course he'll have other friends, he's practically immortal. It would still hurt to know that this amazing adventure that is probably going to be the best time of your life and means so much to you… is just a day in the life for him and once you leave he'll never think/speak of you ever again. That's what both Sarah Jane and Rose are upset about.
'It would still hurt to know that this amazing adventure that is probably going to be the best time of your life and means so much to you… is just a day in the life for him and once you leave he'll never think/speak of you ever again. That's what both Sarah Jane and Rose are upset about. '
Yeah. THIS. I think if I travelled with the Doctor I would hope he might talk about our wacky adventures to future friends on occasion (like normal people do with their friends), because they would undoubtedly be the most significant experiences of my life, and I would never STOP talking about them. I get the whole 'Why have I never heard about them? Will anyone ever hear about ME after you ditch me?' I think it's a very, very human reaction. And it would really hard to take into account the Doctor's grief and loneliness at times – he's got the face of a young man but so many people he's travelled with would be dead now. Or probably died along the way.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I think to some extent, as you pointed out, the fact that the Doctor doesn't talk much about past companions is a result of his loneliness and grief. He says as much in his argument with Rose. Buuut… you would still expect something to crop up, sometimes. And we as the audience might know that Sarah Jane was a companion way back, compared to say Ace, but for all Rose knows, Sarah Jane was her immediate predecessor and she never even gets a name drop.
There's more I want to say but it's all spoilery, but anyway I do think the Doctor is in the wrong here, and it's his actions and his mistakes that hurt both Sarah Jane and Rose.
Agreeing with you! I am agreeing, totally. Why doesn't the Doctor ever mention them to Rose? I mean, why? Cause he's too sad to talk about them? What's the answer to that question?
Rose's reaction to Mickey coming along for the ride is just odd. She wanted Mickey to join them in the first season. I don't know if she changed her mind, if the change of Doctors might have influenced her, or if it's just an oversight by the writers.
IntenseDebate ate my reply I think? Dunno if you get email notifications or not.
But yeah, it's a bit weird. I can buy that she's changed her mind since a lot of time has elapsed between WW3, when she was still sort of mentally dating Mickey (it'd only been, what, 3 days for her since "Rose" at that point?) to now, where she and Mickey are clearly broken up. Someone upthread pointed out that she probably doesn't want him along in particular because he is her ex, and most people wouldn't want their ex tagging along while they go on dates with the new apple of their eye.
Still, it's an immature reaction, and there I can understand the criticism of Rose.
My biggest issue, though, is because I don't think the point of this episode is to say "look, Sarah Jane and Rose are jealous of each other, silly women" — IMO, the episode is being most critical of the Doctor, and the idea that when a companion leaves he never mentions them again. Rose isn't upset because the Doctor has friends who aren't her; Rose is upset because the Doctor has friends who aren't her, and he's never mentioned them before, ever, and now she's worried this friendship that means so much to her isn't as important to him. No one wants to think that someone they love is going to forget them entirely.
Valid interpretation, but I would say if this episode is critical of the Doctor for this, it's in a very uncommitted sort of way. No one really takes him to task for this- REALLY takes him to task- Sarah Jane kind of has her confrontation, but she's incredibly forgiving, and as soon as the Doctor plays the innocently baffled card ("That's close, isn't it?"), it's all back to smiles. I have only seen a couple of the old serials with her, but she seemed to have much more of a bite interacting with the Doctor back then, and I wonder if her toothlessness here is a symptom of RTD's tendency to emphasize how spellbound everyone is by the Doctor. If the episode was really supposed to criticize the Doctor, the weight of that is on the tone written into it, and here I think think the tone wasn't very critical at all.
I’m replying on my phone so apologies for typos etc. I see what you’re saying, but both Rose and Sarah Jane bring this up with him — and really that’s the crux of his argument with Rose, that he leaves people and forgets them, not the simple fact that Sarah exists. I can’t elaborate much more on my argument without spoilers, so I will just say that oftentimes, in RTD’s Who anyway, the consequences of actions don’t crop up immediately following the action, but IMO the consequences always/nearly always do come. Satellite 5 in s1, for instance. I think if you take this episode as part of the larger whole it belongs to, you’d be hard pressed to convince me that the moral of this episode is that the companions need to learn their place and understand that hey aren’t special or important to him.
David Tennant has said that if he had to pick a single greatest moment out of his time as the Doctor, it was during the rehearsal for this episode when he first heard Sarah Jane (who was on the show when he was kid) call him "Doctor."
That's why I love this episode, he looks so damm happy to be there, with Sarah Jane! When he sees her for the first time his glee is so clear it's contagious.
Yeah, that really must be brilliant. I think I'd have a similar reaction if I worked with an older actor/actress on a Doctor Who episode (although I doubt I'll ever get to be the Doctor, unless regenerations can change gender now.)
My reaction the first time I watched this episode was basically different variations of "GILES DON'T EAT THE CHILDREN GILES!"
Also, it must be said that an entire universe based upon the form of Anthony Head =/= the worst thing in the world.
Here's how I viewed the Skasis Paradigm: by cracking it, you basically get the source code of the universe. It's like a big long mathematical problem, and once you solve it you can use the source code to edit and build wherever you want. By pulling the plug on the computers, the Krillitane lost the data/work the kids had done on the Paradigm, so they'd have to start all over. It still exists, it's just nearly impossible to crack.
Also, the bit where Sarah Jane and Rose are laughing at the Doctor? LOVE FOREVER.
This is one of my favourite episodes.
I don't have the old-Who joy of seeing Sarah Jane again, my love for her comes from the her more recent appearances (mostly from The Sarah Jane Adventures which I'm catching up on and loving).
On the other hand, as someone who grew up watching Buffy and is a big fan of Merlin I have to like the episode because of Anthony Head. (KING GILES!)
Someone's probably already posted/linked to this but this piece of fanart really boils down Rose's attitude in this episode quite nicely (there's a few slight spoilers in the artist's notes and comments but the image itself is fine) : http://mimi-na.deviantart.com/gallery/732874#/drj…
that was the picture I was looking for, I knew I'd seen it somewhere, love it, silly Rose
Oh damn I forgot:
"Does he still stroke bits of the TARDIS?"
"Yeah, I'm like, 'Do you two want to be alone?'"
Doctor/TARDIS = OTP
Well he's dumped or been dumped by all the other ladies at one point. So yeah the TARDIS is the one true love of the Doctors life. Also Steven Moffat said so and he's the boss.
That image is classic! I like to use it as a test of my knowledge (got all of them except Vicki and Victoria!).
Theres' also the boys version: here.
Never seen the boys version before. LOL at Jack and Jamie.
Oh god I love th boys' version as well, drunk!singing!Ten is always fun.
Right click, save.
Fried and/or baked potato products will be the death of me, my friends.
Me too, Mark. Me too.
<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_3lVOb8wvDlE/TSIJH0JigYI/AAAAAAAAA2w/vSQZKPXj4bs/sampotatoes.gif">
You know what he could also be saying? Mo naked hos
>.> *is so immature*
100% true.
That's a really old gif, wow. Brings back memories. Pervy Hobbit Fancying memories.
This episode contains all of my favorite things:
<img src="http://www.gifsoup.com/view3/1603025/rose-and-sarah-jane-laughing-o.gif">
DT being an adorable fanboy AND the teacher I wish I could have had and that awesome pool scene with Anthony Head
<img src="http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad311/Chritter710/tumblr_lemezlzBvX1qbxmquo1_500.jpg">
<img src="http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad311/Chritter710/tumblr_lckwcyTj811qaexod.gif">
Sarah Jane Smith. BAMF.
<img src="http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a463/Olget/Doctor%20Who%20Moodtheme/Doctor%20Who%20Gifs/DW2x03-HelloSarahJane.gif">
K9!!!
<img src="http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad311/Chritter710/Doctor/hv1o41.gif">
<img src="http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad311/Chritter710/Doctor/tumblr_lcyqnvbtDD1qa0q13o1_500.jpg">
AND GILES!!! Complete with some Buffy-speak
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le2611y9SY1qabopy.gif">
Also, I think Rose needed the reality check she gets in this episode. Girl, you're not the first person the Doctor has traveled with, and I don't think it's a spoiler to say you won't be the last.
OMG. DO WANT THAT K-9 PURSE.
There's an image of K-9 and Four that I really want to post, but idk if Mark will watch the serial it comes from, so I think it's a spoiler.
INSTEAD I WILL POST ANOTHER GILES GIF.
<img src="http://i38.tinypic.com/2dtudqb.jpg">
"Complete with some Buffy-speak"
OH GOD, I wish I could remember the line but I remember it involved "thing-y" and it made me squeal exceptionally loudly. 😀
I think it was…
"Ignore the shooty dog thing"
YES, that was it.
I really like this episode. I really love that it has the Doctor and Rose and Mickey and Sarah Jane all together. Honestly, the main attraction of this episode to me isn’t the story (though I do love Anthony Head as Mr Finch), it’s that Sarah Jane is there and the Doctor is around her again as Ten. I love the look on his face after he found out that she’s there, he’s just smiling off into space, it’s nice, like he’s just happy that she’s got her nice, productive like that he can see. I just love the whole reunion thing. I also like the stuff between Rose and Sarah Jane, I think it’s great.
And I suppose the thrill of seeing the Doctor and Sarah Jane together isn't there as much as it would be if you had seen old episode(s) with her, which is kind of sad (but this is just coming from my pov) In the commentary, David said that if you know about Sarah Jane and the past episodes, you watch this episode through the Doctor’s point of view, and if you don’t then it’s more through Rose’s point of view, which is an interesting point. For me, I don't remember if I know a ton about Sarah Jane at this point. At some point when I was watching series 2, I went on a reading spree of all the wikipedia articles related to Doctor Who, which is how I found out about a lot of stuff, and I guess I 'got' the episode more after that.
K9! I think K9’s great. I just think he's kind of cute for a robot dog.
I also love David in this episode because when he watched Doctor Who as a kid, Sarah Jane was one of the companions, so the happiness and excitement that the Doctor has when he sees Sarah is all real because David got to act with someone who he grew up watching on tv. I just love that, how much David loved working on Doctor Who.
<img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/33lo092.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
From the David Tennant video diaries
oops, wrong gif! but since it's there, that part where they're lauging, David had a big moustache on his face off camera to get them to laugh like that. correct gif in a minute.
here it is, just a bit of cute:
<img src="http://i54.tinypic.com/jggytx.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
Oh, she's so lucky. He just gets better looking with age.
So, uh, I probably shouldn't post the link to ASH singing Sweet Transvestite then?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiht0XK6NP8
Oops.
Singing as Giles is even better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhPjL3yF_tQ&fe…
I'll see you a Freebird and raise you a Bunnies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW20AlC0IbA
I love it!!!
But what about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVEp-mJqJb4&fe…
Wow, really surprised at that reaction considering this is, for me, one of the strongest episodes in S2. First things first, and sorry Mark, a couple of corrections:
"I literally do not understand how the Krillitane oil is toxic to everyone but children" – it's not. They state in-episode that it's only toxic to Krillitane's for some reason that I can't remember right now but it IS stated.
"I don’t get what the Skasis Paradigm, this “theory of everything,” was ever developed or what it’s use is beyond controlling space and time." – Umm, why would you need to have a use beyond controlling space and time? And I think (sorry, don't have episode to hand for reference) they refer to the Paradigm as an equation, i.e. it wasn't really developed it's a rule of the universe. Think of it as the Grand Unifying Theory, a way of defining the world around us and, in the case of the Paradigm, being able to control that world.
"So the kids computed the answer to this theory and then….what? So you just kill the Krillitane and then the Paradigm is gone? Can’t someone else just make it?" – they didn't solve it, Mickey pulled the plug before they got there. And yes, someone else could solve it but, as shown and stated, you need imagination to crack it as well as a ton of learning capacity so it's not something that's easily done. Plus the vast majority of races would probably realise having such power in the hands of a few was a Bad Idea(tm) and react with the same horror the Doctor does. And yes, Mickey does go with them at the end.
Phew, sorry, lot of typing there. I have to admit, I adore this episode. It's a great romp with a lovely story of loss and how we define ourselves alongside the main plot, albeit in this case told via a timelord, his companion(s) and a metal dog. Elizabeth Sladen does seem to have done some sort of deal with the devil though, she's another one of those people that doesn't age properly! Right there alongside Michael York! K9 was at his smug best here and the Doctor was on fine form. Even Mickey, while having reverted back to being Rose's whipping boy a tad and still being treated as a spineless berk at times by the writer, shows promise here and I love his *shrug* before he tries unplugging the computer setup. Which leaves one character doesn't it…
Ah Rose, welcome to the point where I started to wish you fired into the sun. You are travelling with a man who you KNOW is 900 years old+, who you KNOW is happy to flirt with men and trees alike, who you KNOW has being doing this sort of thing for a LONG time… and yet you assume you're somehow special? I can't help but grin when Sarah Jane smacks her down HARD with Nessie but GOD did I start hating Rose during this episode. Plus she's STILL treating Mickey like her property, the look on her face when he asks to come along at the end shows the character beneath the happy bouncy gloss for a moment and it ain't pretty.
Now hurry up tomorrow for I cannot wait to see Mark's reaction to what's coming next…. MWAHAHAHAHAHA…hahahah… ha… ahem. Sorry.
"I can't help but grin when Sarah Jane smacks her down HARD with Nessie"
When did this happen? All I remember is that Sarah Jane mentions meeting THE Loch Ness monster and Rose and Sarah Jane realize how ridiculous they've both been behaving and they patch things up. It wasn't a smack down.
"Plus she's STILL treating Mickey like her property, the look on her face when he asks to come along at the end shows the character beneath the happy bouncy gloss for a moment and it ain't pretty."
Rose isn't treating Mickey like he is her property. Yes, she is behaving a bit immature. Rose is a flawed an realistic character. She doesn't really want Mickey to come with her and the Doctor because she's already feeling a bit insecure about her standing with the Doctor after learning about hoe he apparently was super close to Sarah Jane once and now he never mentions her. And now Mickey is intruding on their relationship. I get why she isn't happy. It's not mature, but it's real.
Actually, I really do have a MAJOR problem with her sulk in the TARDIS (and I don't know whether it's Billie overacting or a bad direction call but she looks like she really hates Mickey in that reaction shot) considering Mickey has to this point (deep breath): been abandoned by his GIRLFRIEND in the middle of a back alley after he was abducted by an alien being, questioned repeatedly by the police over her year long AWOL, saved her mum's life twice, saved the entire world via missile, come all the way to Cardiff(!) because she felt like lording it over him as to how much better life was in the TARDIS, taken the 'I've grown and this (and by extension, you) aren't good enough for me now' speech superbly well and in the process opened the heart of the TARDIS for her so she could save the Doctor and, finally, stopped the Krilittain from cracking the keys to the universe and saving a couple of hundred school kids. Phew.
At this point he's actually been WAY more effective than she has and all (usually) without the help of the Doctor alongside him. And yet she doesn't want him sharing the TARDIS trip with her? Sorry, total bitch right there and utterly unlikeable in my book.
As for the Nessie thing yes, there's laughter, but there's that moment of 'seriously?' when she realises that maybe, just f'n MAYBE, she's not the be all and end all. It's only after that when she starts laughing.
Sorry but I really really REALLY hate Rose as a character and her relationship with Ten almost drove me away from the show. Considering I started out with Colin Baker and can just about remember ALL the McCoy era shows when they were first shown on TV that gives you some idea of how much I disliked her (let's face it, Time and the Rani ain't exactly setting the bar high here…).
come all the way to Cardiff(!) because she felt like lording it over him as to how much better life was in the TARDIS
Yeah… that's now how I read Boomtown at all. Rose definitely doesn't handle her relationship with Mickey well and she has a tendency to be selfish, but that wasn't why she asked him to come to Cardiff. She just wanted to see him.
Sorry, total bitch right there and utterly unlikeable in my book.
Can we not with the gendered slurs? But I think that you're being really unfair to Rose and not considering things from her point of view. The Doctor is all I am ~The Last of the Time Lords~ and never talks about any of his previous companions. It's not completely stupid of her to not know that there were other people traveling with the Doctor beforehand. She thought she has a pretty unique relationship with the Doctor and it's a major slap in the face to just meet Sarah Jane like that. The experience leave her feeling insecure about the status of her relationship with the Doctor and to have Mickey come along on something that she sees as "hers" just adds insult to injury.
I'm agreeing with you so you don't feel alone!
I love Rose, so I definitely identify with her getting pissy over him not mentioning previous companions EVER. Why didn't he? What is the reason? Because he really did leave them alone and helpless and to fend for themselves? That's pretty awful. This episode really did change my opinion of The Doctor. He did have a reason for leaving, but at least he could have helped her out first. Nine nearly sent Rose back to her mom without hardly a goodbye.
I should also mention that I never saw any of the old Doctor Who's before I watched all of the new stuff. My first old Who was Mark's first old Who, actually. So I think that I'm coming down on the side of Rose, being surprised that he had so many companions before her. They only take two other people with them while he is Nine, right? And those people only stay briefly. So why shouldn't she assume he doesn't normally have companions?
Agreed 100%, Stephen_M. Rose's character started to take a really steep downhill in this episode…
"They state in-episode that it's only toxic to Krillitane's for some reason that I can't remember right now but it IS stated."
Yes, pretty sure the Doctor said it was because the Krillitanes had changed their form so much.
This is the only episode of this series I rewatch. Not necessarily because of the quality of it, but because I love Sarah Jane and K-9, and am really not fond of the Rose&Ten dynamic. At all.
I once was watching this ep, and my sister and her friend (who definitely don't watch DW. My sister has seen bits and pieces though) joined me, and they were nearly crying when K-9 died. BEST DOG EVER Y/Y?
Aww, look, it's Giles!
Okay, I can barely watch when Rose and Sarah Jane are fighting and trying to one-up another – it's so painful ick I hate watching female characters being insecure due to the presence of other female characters – I'm glad it gets a fairly quick resolution, and them laughing at the Doctor is adorable, but I honestly fast-forwarded through it because I had no desire to subject myself to watching it.
And then Rose being annoyed Mickey's joining them is super ugly. I forgot about this part.
Oh, and relevant fanart:
<img src="http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4044/doctorsgirlsbymimina.jpg">
More DW art at the artist's website (warning: potential spoilers), including a non-watermarked wallpaper version of the above: <a href="http://mimi-na.deviantart.com/gallery/732874” target=”_blank”>http://mimi-na.deviantart.com/gallery/732874
I love that picture, had it as the background on my iPad for a while. It's K9 saying 'Negative' at the end (and I can hear his smug voice now) that makes it so very, very perfect.
he really does go for pretty young things, doesn't he…
The Doctor. Otherwise known as that old man travelling the cosmos picking up young girls.
Well, that IS the reason they made Susan his granddaughter. To avoid the obvious implications… 😉
Yes. But then of course, time and romance on the tv moved on, and then suddenly the Doctor had a rather handsome young body- so fast forward to the 2000s, and the whole "no romance on the TARDIS" rule got thrown out the window.
Well, they wouldn't have needed to excuse the relationship if they'd cast a younger actor, even back then. 😉
Oh, I don't know. I mean, even by Five's time (and he was the 'youngest' Doctor until Smith came along) they still had a no hugging or kissing rule between the Doctor and his female companions.
But by then they had a tradition of the Doctor not being romantically involved with his companions so the fact there was a young good-looking man in the part just made it even MORE imperative that there be no hint of romance. *lol*
There's a line from one of the fifth season's DVD extra scenes that I badly, badly want to quote, but SPOILERS.
I know which one! 😀 And yeah, I can't wait for Mark to get there.
LOL, I know what you're talking about. LOVE IT.
I utterly LOVE that picture! I think it really sums up Rose's character in Series two excellently. I was quite fond of her in Series 1, but in School Reunion she really starts becoming a bitchy, obsessive, whiny brat.
Wow, seriously? I think that's a bit harsh on Rose.
Moi aussi, mon ami. I can't believe how much Rose hate there is here. It's a complete slap in the face for me, because my whole family loves Rose and all of my friends who have watched the series love Rose.
For me, it was the exact opposite. Before I got into the series, pretty much all I knew was this
1) There was a time-travelling alien
2) There are homicidal pepper pots
3) My friends absolutely hate Rose.
When I watched the series, she certainly wasn't my favourite companion, but I didn't hate her. My sister and mom, though? Whooo boy. I don't think I've ever seem them hate a female character so much.
You went in with more than me!
I knew:
1) There was a time-travelling alien
2) He flew a blue box that was actually a spaceship on the inside
3) Everyone loves David Tennant
I had no concept of Daleks whatsoever.
I got to ep6 or so of s1 and made the comment to my friend who told me to watch them that, "there seems to be some sort of romance going on with Rose, but it kinda squicks me because the Doctor is too old," and my friend Holly said, "Yes, but just wait and you will see! I love Rose!"
I was watching with my mom and dad, and all my mom wanted to know once they change companions is "Where is Rose? I liked Rose? Rose isn't in it, I don't really want to watch it…" My nephew's first season of Doctor Who was season 2, which he watched within the course of a week and THAT is testament to how it captures the attentions of 11-year-olds (its Official child target audience age, I think?). And we would watch other seasons and he would sit with us and ask "Where is Rose? What happened to Rose?" and then we got to That Part while he was there and he just audibly gasped and it was adorable. And everyone else cheered. Yes, I watched this with my parents because they love TV Time with me when I go home.
And as just another example, I gave my friend season 2 for Christmas and later on, after she had texted me just how much she loved it, I told her about the Rose hate I have been seeing on here. And she just said, "I can't understand that," and "Rose is incredible."
I don't know if I would go quite that far, but… she's definitely a lot more clingy with Ten than she is with Nine? Maybe because David Tennant is just more attractive.
Personally, the more I think about it, the more I'm finding that perhaps why I dislike Rose is that her character is full of DRAMA. And not just any drama, romance drama. Which I hate. I just want to watch a campy sci-fi show with bad science! Keep your romance out of it. Or at least keep the teenage drama away. ):
Maybe because David Tennant is just more attractive.
Hey, that's a very subjective assessment. 😛
But Nine had too many sharp edges to fit into a human boyfriend mold. Whereas Ten acts nice and cheery until he doesn't. I have to say, though, I loved the Doctor with Rose so much more in "The Parting of the Ways", when she insisted that what they had was more important than eros, more deep and more significant. Turning them into a romance actually (IMO) made their relationship shallower and more annoying than it had been.
I love those lines in "The Parting of the Ways"–but I have actually the opposite stance on how it makes me view the relationship between Ten/Rose. If you have that solid base already, and develop romantic feelings as well, wouldn't that be an amazing relationship to have? Worth some potential heartbreak down the road? I would want that relationship, even if I didn't know how it was going to end, or how long it was going to last, or if it would end with a bang (the world we're on exploding or something) or a whimper (one of us leaving the other–literally on another planet, in this case).
And, if they already have this epic relationship foundation–even if there had never been any hint of romance–meeting another companion, with whom he may well have had that would be jarring. He never mentions her. Or them. Are there them? Rose doesn't know. We, of course, do, but she doesn't. Hell of a shock to someone feeling like she has a solid relationship with someone she trusts.
Sorry to tangent! Summary: TPotW comment is so apt to this discussion. Thank you for bringing it up 😀
Subjective indeed… this will no doubt be gasped at collectively by many people, but for me it's the opposite, I find Eccleston more attractive and Tennant does nothing for me.
Heh. Likewise.
That fanart is amazing.
Oh god Tegan! The don't call her "Mouth on Legs" for nothing. (love her)
Forgot to say that you have all these different fonts saying "Doctor" and then there's Ace scowling and saying "Professor…" Ace. <333
There's a lot of brilliant satire on the British education system here. The notion that as long as a school is doing well in the league tables it doesn't matter if some of the kids get eaten in the process is not hard to believe.
Also the "Eat more chips" posters were happening at exactly the same time that Jamie Oliver was trying to get healthy eating into schools, wanting kids to learn how to recognise vegetables and salad and stuff, so to have a school which was actively encouraging chips was even funnier at the time.
This was a story about Rose seeing her future. Sarah Jane, who'd been dropped off back on Earth, spending years waiting to hear the Tardis materialise, not actually getting on with her life meeting Rose who thought that she was going to travel with the Doctor forever. It was nice to see the little touches where the Doctor clearly snapped straight back into his relationship with Sarah Jane, automatically handing her the sonic rather than Rose. Rose saw just how much the Doctor moved on, whilst Sarah Jane realised that she had to make the most of the rest of her life back on Earth.
I was actually just thinking about the Jamie Oliver thing and wondering if that was intentional! Interesting.
Is there a spoiler thread?? I NEED TO DISCUSS!
Actually there's a whole internet to talk about it. Just not here.
That's true, but it's far more fun to do so amongst usernames you recognize and, above all, to laugh at Mark's unpreparedness.
Exactly.
Very not prepared!
Some of us like talking about it amongst a community we know and those other sites would not be discussing where Mark is in his viewing either. We have had a spoiler thread for both Mark Reads Harry Potter and Mark Reads The Hunger Games, so that's why some people would like one for this.
Yeah, you know, this is one of the episodes where I really don't give a damn about the plot. Doctor Who is actually the only thing than can make me say that, but… there you go. For one thing EVIL GILES EATING CHILDREN is kind of distracting. (As in, "oh god was Giles an evil bat alien the whole time IS THIS A GIANT CONSPIRACY IN THE BUFFYVERSE?!")
But, like other people, for me it's about Sarah Jane and Rose. I had no idea who Sarah Jane was when I watched this episode, but I knew that the Doctor had travelled with plenty of other companions in his time, and that was enough for me. The conflict that arises between Sarah Jane and Rose makes a lot of sense. They both have been close to the Doctor for a long time, and Sarah Jane was pretty clearly miffed at being left in Aberdeen way back when. But they deal with it, and they emerge the better for it. One thing New Who does is examine some of the odder aspects of the show; we had regeneration in the Christmas special, and now we have the conga line of young ladies spinning through the TARDIS' revolving doors. (Unnaturally mixed metaphor FTW). I really like the development in Rose's character and in the general psychology of the show.
Weeeelllll, if the bat aliens absorb other cultures, maybe the real Giles was a victim of them. Come to think of it, that does explain his behavior in Season 7 of Buffy. Now I am really worried about Giles 🙁 I bet that Ethan had something to do with it!
<img src=http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldrhth2tsD1qaagzt.jpg>
<img src=http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_la8vhimHxd1qaimf2o1_r1_250.gif>
…
"oh god was Giles an evil bat alien the whole time IS THIS A GIANT CONSPIRACY IN THE BUFFYVERSE?!"
OHMYGODNOGILESNO
<img src="http://www.pinkraygun.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/horny-giles.jpg">
There are no past serials that cover the Time War. Watch more of this series to learn more.
In Classic Who, the Doctor usually had more than one companion with him and while they bickered because of clashing personalities, they were not jealous in the same way that Rose is jealous of Sarah Jane. It's more than her being a teenager who doesn't want to share her daddy figure/boyfriend, though. Sarah Jane represents Rose's future. Her very existence means that Rose has to accept she is not the first person to travel with the Doctor, nor will she be the last. Some day, she will get older and she will either want to leave or be left behind. And Rose can't imagine anything worse, but Sarah Jane knows better. "The universe has to move forward. Pain and loss, they define us as much as happiness or love. Whether it's a world or a relationship, everything has its time and everything ends." (emphasis mine) Or to put it another way, all good things come to an end and you need to accept that. And in this way, at the end of the episode, Mickey decides to join the TARDIS because he is willing to change and stop being 'the tin dog' – but Rose still doesn't want to share.
Are you and Baudelaire totally secret soul mates?
Sarah Jane and K9 are pretty meaningless to me, too, but I like them as a vehicle for exploring the Doctor's relationship with his companions. I like Rose, and she definitely has her flaws, so it's good to see her think about her place in everything. Speaking of which, I'm not really clear on what you mean about the Skasis Paradigm/a theory of everything. I think it's funny the Krillitanes used french fries to make kids into quantum computers or whatever. So, maybe without their oil, it's not possible to replicate that situation? Someone, somewhere could be working on a theory of everything, but I suppose it's only a threat if someone is going to abuse that knowledge?
You're right, full of plot holes.
If you watch the serial where Sarah Jane and the Doctor part, you'll see that he does have a little bitty excuse for leaving her so far off the mark. Not a good one, but, y'know.
As I'm sure other people have mentioned, there is no serial dealing with the time war. You just have to wait for the little scraps RTD throws out.
I just ignore the plot in this episode to be honest lol. I hadn't seen any Sarah Jane episodes before this but knew of her so there was that excitement but I think even f you hadn't seen her before you could sympathise with her being abandoned.
Rose, god she was hard to watch with that attitude and my tolerance gave way. I hadn't noticed it before but when Mickey asks to come along Rose actually mouths at the Doctor "don't." Horrible.
Oh my god I hadn't noticed that "don't" before. Good on the Doctor for ignoring THAT and letting him come. My opinion of Rose just dropped even lower (and it was never that high to begin with).
School Reunion rates a 3. And yes, Mickey decided to go hang with them. Because he can be more than the tin dog. He can be MICKEY. SUPER DUPER… GUY.
BUMBUMBUM
I didn't think the plot was weak in this episode, but it seems like you missed one or two things, Mark.
I literally do not understand how the Krillitane oil is toxic to everyone but children.
The oil was only toxic to the Krillitane, not everyone.
I don’t get what the Skasis Paradigm, this “theory of everything,” was ever developed or what it’s use is beyond controlling space and time.
It needs another use past controlling all space and time? That's not enough?
So the kids computed the answer to this theory and then….what? So you just kill the Krillitane and then the Paradigm is gone?
The kids hadn't computed it yet, so…
Can’t someone else just make it?
That's the question, isn't it? Scientists have been trying to come up with a Universal Theory for about 100 years. It was what Einstein was trying to do before his death. One day, perhaps someone will come up with it.
Anyway, I hope that tied up the loose ends for you. Actually, for a Who plot, I think everything actually tied together very neatly.
A few more points:
1) Why is Giles hurting all of those kids?
2) The Doctor's speech to Rose about how he doesn't want to watch her die breaks my heart so much. The most memorable part of Season 2 for me.
3) MOAR GILES GIFS PLZ.
Oh, and as other people have pointed out, there is no serial that covers the Time War. The Time War is a mystery to everyone.
<img src=http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad311/Chritter710/2nbvhqw.gif>
Why so hot and creepy at the same time?!
GILES!! ::is a total Giles fangirl::
I love how Giles both plays into the stereotypes of a librarian (staid and overly formal, is all about BOOKS, hates computers-totally untrue btw, especially these days-, loves his research) and totally subverts them (keeps an arsenal of medieval weapons in his library, is a total badass in all ways when he wants to be).
I so hope Mark watches Buffy at some point.
Yeah, Rose can be a selfish cow, but I was no better at 19. If I'd had a sexy lust object who could take me travelling in time and space I wouldn't want to share with too many other people, either, you know?
And there's a difference between knowing someone has a history and having it shoved in your face.
This is admittedly not the best of season 2, but it is like an Old Who episode in a lot of ways, jsut compressed in time. I actually think something like this would work better as an Old Who, four or six episodes with more time to build up the plot and explain the pseudo-science. Still, I enjoy it, if only for Anthony Head, as I would watch that man scratch his arse and be quite pleased. Anthony Head as Giles is probably single-handedly responsible for my slightly-nerdy older man thing, and therefore can be blamed for my husband.
It's all his fault.
YES. She's immature because she's immature. She's only 19. If she was 30 and acting like this I would have more of a problem, definitely. And Sarah Jane lapses into it and catches herself because she IS more mature. Rose might have just gone on acting like that if Sarah Jane hadn't pointed out how immature the both of them were. Sarah Jane is hella more mature, which is seen in her denial to go with The Doctor anymore. She knows she can't take the crazy anymore. She could at Rose's age, but not anymore.
There was a short story about the Time War that was written by RTD that got released either before Season 1 of the revival or during it. Some google-fu should probably find it pretty easily, they would never be able to do it justice on a tv or even a movie budget. A war fought across time and space, multiple dimensions, fleets of battle TARDISes (I looked it up, this is the plural) and Daleks/Dalek Leaders (they haven't been named in the series so far so I shall not name them) would be pretty crazy stuff.
This episode retconned the Sarah Jane/Doctor relationship pretty hard since back in the old episodes there was never a hint of romance or anything. Never had been with any companion until Rose I think (grumble). In the UK she was one of the most popular companions from the run with the most well known Doctor so I suppose they took it as wrote that she would mean something to the target audience. I still think the scene where she finds the TARDIS and then turns to see who she now knows is the Doctor standing behind her is one of the best scenes in the season, nice music too.
>There was a short story about the Time War that was written by RTD that got released either before Season 1 of the revival or during it.
Someone posted it in an earlier episode thread.
I would argue no hint of romance- don't forget broadcasting was a different beast back in Old Who and they had to be very careful about showing romance when POOR! INNOCENT! childredn might be watching.
I can think of at least one doctor/companion dynamic that has more than a hint of romance on rewatch.
Okay, so the plot isn't stellar, but I love this episode because OMG K-9 AND SARAH JANE <3s.
I understand where Rose is coming from in this ep, but it still irked me a little. None of the previous companions acted so hostile when confronted with a previous companion. Well, maybe Ace a tiny bit when she met the Brig. She was chilly towards him because he called her "the latest one," and she liked to be thought of as her own person and not the latest companion in a long line. That sort of links back to Rose, who is terrified that the Doctor will just decide to leave her one day and get a new companion. Even then, I have trouble with Rose's attitude at the very beginning of the episode, when she's just plain jealous.
Also, LOL at Sarah calling Rose an 'assistant.' That's what companions were referred to as back in the old days. The term 'companion' surfaced within fandom and started being used in the New Series because the show was essentially run by fans.
Incidentally, Croydon vs. Aberdeen. Well, you might have started to pick up that the Doctor's navigation is sometimes spot on and sometimes not. 1879? Cardiff instead of Venice? 12 months, not 12 hours? It's always been an open question as to whether this is deliberate or whether the Tardis takes a hand (dropping him somewhere far more entertaining than what he intended, so that he could enjoy a life-threatening situation), or whether he really can't always control where he lands, or whether he actually prefers things to be a bit random.
Aberdeen is one of the least convenient parts of the UK to get to or from (except by air). She'd remember that one!
Could've been worse. Could've been Shetland.
I like to think it's the TARDIS messing with everyone. Sometimes the Doctor can pilot her with pinpoint accuracy (there's a specific and recent example I can think of, but SPOILERS) and other times he misses by A LOT. I think it adds to the character of the TARDIS as a mischievous trickster, who is only really accurate when the Doctor very much needs her to be.
My theory is that she knows where the timeline is screwed up and she takes him where she knows he's needed. And he's definitely justified in stroking bits of the TARDIS. 😉
K9 is one of the most adorable sci-fi dogs ever. I loved his little tail wag when he was sacrificing his life and the Doctor called him a Good Dog.____I still love Rose. She took two things from hanging around with the Doctor and jumped to a false conclusion. It's really not that hard to get from "I'm the last of the Time Lords and alone in the universe" and "The Doctor never talks about adventures with other humans" to "All my old friends were Time Lords like me who died in the war, you're the only human I've ever bonded enough with to gallivant around the universe with". We know better but she doesn’t. Yes, she acts like a brat who just found out she's not the center of the universe, because she just found out she's not the center of the Doctor's universe and has bratty tendencies. (too long, adding rest in a reply)
Such as not wanting Mickey to get to come, especially since last time Mickey was given the opportunity she was alll "You should come, Mickey. Come on, it's awesome!" There is a possible selfless interpretation, but it's not at all likely to have occurred to Rose beyond "Ugh, I don't want my ex-boyfriend interfering with my relationship with my new boyfriend.”
That's a good point re: probably thinking he pal-ed around with other Time Lords pre-Time War, I didn't think of it like that but that's probably part of it too.
Incidentally, Croydon vs. Aberdeen. Well, you might have started to pick up that the Doctor's navigation is sometimes spot on and sometimes not. 1879? Cardiff instead of Venice? 12 months, not 12 hours? It's always been an open question as to whether this is deliberate or whether the Tardis takes a hand (dropping him somewhere far more entertaining than what he intended, so that he could enjoy a life-threatening situation), or whether he really can't always control where he lands, or whether he actually prefers things to be a bit random.
Here are my reactions to this episode- what I remember of them anyway, I saw it when it was first on TV.
1. OMG GILES LOL
2. Sarah Jaaaaaaane <3<3<3
3. Ladies, CALM YO TITS. You know the Doctor isn't exactly Mr Responsible about this sort of thing.
4. Holy shit, is that K9? AFFIRMATIVE.
Also, my favourite line of this episode? "We are in a car."
I. Am. Desperately. Hoping. I. Did. Not. Just. Read. The. Phrase. "Ladies, CALM YO TITS."
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
NO.
This is supposed to be a place without senseless bashing and othering. If I could, I would ban you. If you feel the need to encourage others to take it down a notch, perchance do so next time a bit less ah, colorfully?
If not–GTFO. We don't need you, we don't want you.
THIS. I don't understand why it hasn't been downvoted more, at the very least.
I'm sorry guys.
I won't use it again.
It's really out of character for me not to think before posting, so again, I'm sorry.
I think this episode has one of my favourite moments from all of New!Who. I had been thrown in the deep end with Old!Who by the missus at the time and it felt like a nice confirmation of my new geekhood when I recognised the Tom Baker impression Tennant does when he first meets Sarah Jane. It's all in the teeth and voice – amazing and it made me shed a little tear for SJ.
ANTHONY STEWART HEAD.
I legit freaked out when I saw him. I just LOVE him (have you heard this man sing!?)!
And they blew up the school! Childhood dream! But yeah, the episode itself was weak.
He's Uther! Uther! Ugh, all through this episode and and that little bit of Buffy I watched I was like…."I recognize that guy. Who is he?" Yes, this character certainly seems to be more in line with his Merlin characterization here.
And bringing him along sort of screws up the fun bond they have as the Two Lone Warriors in Time.
Which is why a lot of people, myself included, see the Doctor and Rose as being too clique-y this season and don't care for it.
Oh, okay. I can see that going on. Saying it like that does put a different spin on it. I guess it's almost … whether or not you really identify with Rose as to whether or not you think what she's doing is really bad or just part of a personality. And also, I guess, I admit that I would probably be acting the same in her position. Especially at that age. See: college friends versus high school friends. You grow up and change and suddenly the people you don't identify with your old friends as much as your new. She's changed a huge amount and experienced a huge amount, and now when she looks at Mickey she sees the 'idiot' that The Doctor always said he was. Also, I partly think The Doctor allowed Mickey on in order to help 'cure' Rose of that. But that's a theory. Rose lets Sarah Jane on because Sarah Jane is part of her new circle of friends that understand her life.
It needs to be said:
Oh my god I'm the tin dog.
Totally with you on this one, Mark. The plot seems to be completely secondary to the character stuff, which is ok but makes for a messy episode. It relies on your emotional investment and some viewers just don't have that with Sarah-Jane/the classic series.
Some things I did like: Sarah-Jane's reaction when she sees the TARDIS — what an absolute jolt that must have been. It's nice to see someone react to the blue box instead of ignoring/being vaguely curious about it. Also K-9, Anthony Head being super awesome at all times, the Doctor and Rose being unable to talk about their feelings and lastly, 'I'm the tin dog!' <3
The picture of Leela is my favourite, I think. It's so… something. Not sure what exactly, but it's totally it. Whatever it is.
It's very Leela is what it is. I LOVE Leela. She's my second favourite companion.
“You can spend the rest of your life with me. But I can’t spend the rest of mine with you. I have to live on, alone. That’s the curse of the Timelords.”
Oh god. Mope forever 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
Apart from the amusing Doctor/Sarah Jane/Rose interaction though, and occasional giggle at Giles, this episode did NOTHING for me plot-wise. I don't think I've re-watched it since the first broadcast.
This was my first experience of Sarah Jane, as well, but I didn't get the same impression you did. At first, I was a little confused, but as soon as I realized that she was a previous companion, I felt caught up with what I needed to know. They told us about the Doctor leaving her behind, and it was pretty obvious that she has/had feelings for the Doctor. I don't really think that you needed to know anything else. In fact, this episode alone made me want to watch SJA and Classic!Who, just so I could experience more Sarah Jane.
Also,
Rose:I've been to the year five million, but this, this is really seeing the future- you just leave us behind! Is that what you're going to do to me?
Doctor: No, not to you.
Rose: But you and Sarah Jane used to be that close, and now you never mention her
Doctor: I don't age, I regenerate, but humans decay. You wither and die. Imagine watching that happen to someone you…
</3
That just broke my heart.
I thought Sarah Jane Smith was the greatest thing ever, apart from Daleks possiblt, when she joined the Doctor in the classic series. Indeed, I had strong opinions on the matter. You do when you're four.
Consequently this episode was notslgia heaven for me. But I really liked that Sarah Jane wasn't unscathed by having been unceremoniously turfed out of the TARDIS. To a certain degree it had somewhat messed up her life. So, while I think she demeaned herself with her jibes against Rose – "they use the rats for dissection in Biology, or haven't you got to that bit yet?" – I think it understandable.
And then there's Rose. My opinion of Rose varies through the series, mostly I think she's quite immature and treats Mickey badly. But then she's 19 – there are certainly 19 year olds out there who woyuld behave thus. I find her reacttion to discovering that not only is she not the first companion, but that the doctor never mentions you again when he's done with you to be quite understandable too. The bit with Mickey at the end? Less forgivable.
The plot is no better or worse than most in my opinion. But it's not meant to be. It's a vehicle for reintroducing Sarah Jane, cementing the link between old and new Who and giving Rose a better insight into what being the Doctor's companion can mean.
I love this episode. I really do. And then, when I think it can't get any better…
"Bad Dog."
Apparently, I can't type to save my life. Sorry about the garbledness in places.
Oh YES. The rats! That is a British thing. I dissected rats in biology. I also dissected turtles, minks, a squid, a shark, and I did a cat in college…
That's something I would have never known about Britain if Rose hadn't brought it up.
I (a Briton) dissected rats in school, but that was way back in the 80s when classic Doctor Who was still on the air. Yellow, vacuum-packed rats just like the ones shown, in fact.
When Rose announced that no one does that anymore I was kinda dismayed. Admittedly it's hard on the rats (although they allowed us to opt out of dissections on moral grounds if we chose) but dissection made biology all the more real in a way that diagrams didn't.
Vaguely back to tpoic: I love Sarah Jane's rseponse to Mickey's unexpected rat scream:
SJS: I can't believe it's you
*scream*
SJS: Okay, now I can
Wow, I never dissected ANYTHING in Biology. There might have been frogs at one point but it was definitely for A-level students, we didn't do anything like that in GCSE or lower.
Although we did once have a pig lung that our teacher blew into with a straw to show how it worked. Ick.
You missed out on the wonderful smell then 🙂 In my school, the biology classrooms were down the hall from the cafeteria (who's brilliant idea was that?), and if any class was dissecting anything, you could smell it all through the main hall.
I (an American), dissected a frog, a sheep's brain, a (pregnant) shark 🙁 and a cat. This was all in High School.
"Very. Bad. Dog."
"Affirmative."
K-9 is a snarky little tin dog, ain't he? XD
Totally. I love the Doctor and Rose and their relationship but they absolutely suck at the open communication aspect, and this is a result of that. I really don't think it's just that Rose can't handle the idea that he's ever been close to anyone else; it's the fact that he's been close to a number of people and now he never mentions them, and that throws her entire perception of their relationship for a loop. Suddenly she's faced with the prospect that she might be totally insignificant to the most important person in her life. Yes, she's taking it out on Sarah Jane when she should be directing that anger at the Doctor, but she does come to realize that mistake.
I hope you got my reply earlier…? It seems to have vanished into the abyss.
But I was saying that yes, I agree! I do think there's sort of a problematic tendency of fandom at large to dislike characters in Rose's position. (lol, could that statement be any more uselessly vague? TY spoilers.) That doesn't mean every individual who dislikes Rose dislikes her for problematic reasons, but as a trend I think the response to characters like Rose is symptomatic of larger issues.
She's the Ginny Weasley of Doctor Who.
YEP. They should have tea with Gwen Cooper.
Yeah, I got it, but when I went to give it thumbs up, it disappeared! Now there are two…maybe IntenseDebate is still hungover from eating all of the comments last week.
I will delete the first one to HIDE MY SHAME. No but seriously IntenseDebate, what, what, what are you doing.
I was angry about this episode. Really angry. Because I'm a rabid old series fan and the big thing about the old series is that the companions don't have the same dynamic with the Doctor as Rose does. I know people harp on about this, but the Doctor in the original series HAS NO SEX DRIVE WHATSOEVER. (until Paul McGann, but that's another story). There is no sexual tension between Doctor and Companion, even when the companion is as foxy as Sarah Jane was. I mean, it makes more sense when you realise that Sarah Jane joined the series when the Doctor was played by Jon Pertwee. He was a father figure, not a romantic interest.
I may be wrong, but from what I remember watching the series as a kid, Sarah Jane actually really wanted to get home, as well.
Yes, Sarah's going to be jealous that the Doctor has moved on, but I think they take the whole thing too far and destroy something great about Sarah in the process.
On the plus side, though Anthony Stewart Head is always fabulous, and K9 rocks.
but the Doctor in the original series HAS NO SEX DRIVE WHATSOEVER.
Tell that to Two and Jamie. Or Four and Romana. The companion relationship wasn't constantly cast in a romantic mold the way it is in New Who, but it did go there sometimes.
You're right about Sarah Jane, though – the jealousy thing was nearly character assassination in this episode.
Tell that to Two and Jamie. Or Four and Romana.
Hahahah omg I love how Two/Jamie has permeated fannish consciousness so deeply that it's now the number-one rebuttal to the Asexuality Argument, on par with Four/Romana. This fills me with SO MUCH GLEE.
Also the very EXISTENCE of the Doctor's granddaughter Susan, which pretty much argues he boinked at least once unless you're a devotee of LOOOOOOOMS.
Since i looked up stuff on TvTropes about this series before i got into it, i knew about Sarah Jane Smith and K-9, and got pretty excited. i kinda took Rose's side when they started fighting though, and was VERY happy when they started laughing together. i was fairly happy with this episode, but i think that's because i don't think AT ALL while the episode is on.
"Maximum defence mode" "Affrimative" *wags tail* I love K-9!
Love Anthony Head, one of my favourite actors. I had a major Buffy obsession when i was younger! Giles=love
Love Sarah Jane, though i've gotten to know her through The Sarah Jane adventures, not Doctor Who. (I haven't gotten to the episodes with her in them, i'm still trying to finish watching the first Doctor's episodes.)
There is one bit that always bugs me about this episode, when the Doctor tells Sarah Jane that his race is dead she doesn't ask what happened, offer him support or sympathy. It makes her seem a bit heartless, which i know she isn't.
Love Rose's jealousy of Sarah Jane, and their argument.
Love Mickey the tin dog!
But this is still a 'meh' episode for me, i don't know why. :/
I love this episode.
It's not because of Anthony Head, even though I love him. Not because of Sarah Jane and K-9, because I was as completely in the dark about them as you, and even though I could see that K-9 is awesome.
And I can completely see your problems with the plot.
But the reason I love and will forever love this episode is because, for me, it holds the single funniest moment in all of New Who.
The part immediately after Sarah Jane and Rose realize what idiots they've been, and start laughing about all the little things about the Doctor that have remained the same ("Does he still stroke the TARDIS?" "Yeah! And it's just like 'Do you two want to be alone?'"), and they're laughing their heads off when he walks in on them, and he's so valiantly trying to tell them something important but they just keep laughing, and it's obvious they're laughing at him, and he's all "What? No, really, what? WHAT? STOP IT."
… I don't know why this is so amusing to me, but I laugh just as much as Sarah Jane and Rose every time I see it. Every. Single. Time.
I loved it when they laughed at the Doctor, too. Because let's face it – the dude's pretty ridiculous. Awesome, but also ridiculous.
Ace is kickass no matter what she does. The girl carries high explosives around in her backpack, for god's sake. Also, baseball bat!
Some Tom Baker/K9 jokes at 00:40 – there maybe some spoilers elsewhere. Can other Whovians advise?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfMh_5hy-48
That is adorable. Something tells me I'll like Tom Baker.
K-9: Insufficient data.
Tom Baker: Yeah, you never f***ing know the answer when it's important!
Favorite bloopers ever? Possibly.
I always loved this episode. I guess I never noticed the weak plot. I was too excited by seeing Sarah Jane and K-9. I grew up watching Doctor Who and loved K-9 as a kid and Sarah Jane is definitely in my top 5 companions.
I have an irrational amount of love for the episode, mostly because of EVIL ALIEN HEADMASTER GILES! ::squee:: Don't try to tell me the "shooty dog thing" bit of Buffy Speak wasn't deliberate. And of course the reappearance of Sarah Jane and K-9 from the old series.
My main issue with this ep is the bizarre rivalry between Sarah Jane and Rose. They make is seem that Sarah Jane had a thing for the Doctor back in the day. Now I admit I haven't seen every one of Sarah Jane's episodes, but that sort of romance between the Doctor and his companions didn't exist in the old series. For a time, as per the decree of Those Who Are In Charge Of Such Things, the Doctor wasn't allowed to so much as hug his female companions. He was a totally non-sexual entity, and there was never a hint of anything of a romantic nature between him and Sarah Jane. Why does she suddenly appear to have been carrying a torch for him? I agree that Rose acts immaturely, but at least she's behaving in character.
I'm still ambivalent about a Doctor/human romantic relationship. I'm not against it as a concept, but I can't see the Doctor finding any human who could really relate to him on his level. Any human relationship with him always seems unequal, and I don't like the idea of a romantic partnership that skewed. I'm open to being convinced, I just haven't been able to see it thus far.
And I’m aware of all Rose’s many faults, but I can’t help liking her. I'm not really on board with all the Rose hate. It seems to me that Rose and Ten bring out the immaturity in each other, particularly in this series. Yet it's all "Rose is a bitch!", with no mention of how really kind of nasty the Doctor can be at times. I also think that, although both Rose and Sarah Jane behave a bit badly, it’s the Doctor that kind of gets called out. I can understand why both women are upset that he never even mentions his old companions. I get the feeling that he doesn’t because it’s too painful for him, but you can still see why Rose and Sarah Jane aren’t very happy about it.
But I love, love, love the scene when Sarah Jane and Rose realize how silly they're being and start making fun of the Doctor, who then walks in on them and fails to get the joke. Such a great scene.
There was no hugging in old episodes?
What is with the hugging now? So much hugging, all the time hugging. And holding hands. It's hard not to read something in there. It's just an inordinate amount of close contact. Especially in the first season when Rose didn't know The Doctor very well. Still lots of hugging!
The rule, if I'm remembering right, was "The Doctor may not touch the female companions in an affectionate way, even if it's totally platonic." There was, however, much cuteness with some of the male companions. Jamie and the Second Doctor, for a start.
Four and Romana were hand-holding awfully affectionately in "City of Death".
Yeah, I don't think the "no-touching" convention was in effect the entire run of the old series. In fact, I'm sure it wasn't. Just part.
Tom Baker and Lalla Ward were just starting a relationship for that episode so they basically had a romantic holiday disguised as filming an episode. So that was probably the performers chemistry informing the shows dynamic.
It still counts. The Doctor/Companion relationship wasn't cast in a romantic mold by default in the old series the way it (unfortunately, IMO) is in the new series, but sometimes it did go there.
Oh believe me, when they show Ten acting badly, I rake him over the coals for it, LOL. Like in TCI, and… later stuff we haven't gotten to yet. I can't speak for anyone else, but I actually like Ten even less than Rose, and have no qualms about calling him out on his bad behavior.
I don't blame them for being upset with him for not mentioning his old friends ever; I just dislike that the writing decided to have them take it out on each other and have them be threatened by each other and fight about him. Horrid sexist trope. That said, I can also understand why he doesn't talk about past companions, especially anyone who's now dead, particularly after what he said about watching people you care about grow old and die. I've seen stuff like that in other works of fiction I enjoy, so I immediately got where he was coming from and can see both sides.
Oh, I agree it's totally sexist, in addition to having no precedent in Sarah Jane's case. I just think that in general Rose gets more hate than she deserves. I think I'm more willing to defend her because my least favorite companion is one other than Rose, so I'm too busy piling my "YOU PISS ME OFF!" on said companion to get on Rose's case.
Yeah, honestly, I'm no great fan of Rose, but the hate gets a bit silly sometimes even for me.
Upvote for wee little Sarah Jane!
Sorry Guys had to delete this because you know bandwidth killing.
She's the Ginny Weasley of Doctor Who.
I agree so hard. UPVOTE UPVOTE UPVOTE. I'm not even a particularly huge fan of Ginny, but I hate the way that fandom treats her.
Welcome to Fusion’s Random Facts! Let’s cover this episode now.
A. The scene where Rose and Sarah Jane laugh was achieved by Tennant walking in wearing a fake mustache. Yes.
B.That is one of the original K9 props used in this episode.
C. This episode was changed at the last minute. The first plan was for it to involve a military base.
D. Phil Collinson famously got to voice K9 as some scenes were recorded, including the one set in the chips shop. According to Julie Gardner, it was a moment of supreme joy for the producer. Collinson also took a week’s vacation during the filming of this episode, forcing Gardner to take over his duties for a week, something she claimed to have adored. She would later become the effective producer on The End of Time, when credited producer, Tracie Simpson, had to break away from the Russell T Davies production unit to work with Matt Smith and the Steven Moffat unit.
Again did I miss anything?
No, but I think we need a gif or at the very least a picture of the mustache thing.
Agreed!
I don't know if there is one It was mentioned in a DVD commentary. I do wonder what kind of mustache it was. I pray it's the fakest most British mustache ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXsVOr-8ck
Well, one great mustache moment is better than none!
I guess this is the part where I mention the Tardisode for this episode:
Mickey is at a computer, looking at a website of UFO sightings, but is then blocked by a notice referring to Torchwood! He picks up his phone and calls Rose while sorting through newspaper clippings, telling her that he needs her and the Doctor to investigate lights in the sky and strange goings on at a school. The Tardisode ends with a shot of a Krillitane screaming into the camera.
Unlike the other Tardisodes so far, these events are referenced in the main episode dialogue.
So it actually matters for once?! Whoa.
Since we're dealing with The Doctor as a teacher I felt this was appropriate. 🙂 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHAJ4VFStUE
That is just about the most British thing I've ever seen. At least accent wise.
Now that I have my internet back…
So, before this episode, I'd heard a tiny bit about K-9 ("computerized dog," was what I was told), but I just assumed it was a bit more like this fellow:
<img src="http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/5/30624.jpg">
I don't quite know how I feel about my mistaken assumption, but I am kinda disappointed that someone seriously thought the only salient point to K-9 was "computerized dog." I mean, if you're going to spoil someone, at least do it properly.
And I couldn't take Headmaster Giles spying on the Doctor from the rooftop as seriously as it was obviously meant to be taken because it reminded me so strongly of this disaster:
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/x5bdcn.jpg">
Ein! <3 (I maintain that Mark should watch Cowboy Bebop, I think he would love it. And be totally unprepared, but that goes without saying.)
It reminded me of Spike's famous scene from Angel, which I sadly cannot seem to find a gif for 🙁
What's the gif from?
It's from the un-aired version of the pilot for BBC's Sherlock. Thirty minutes shorter and much lower quality than the aired version.
I thought it was was Sherlock but didn't remember that scene. Thanks!
while i object to calling rose a bitch, i find that for me, as well, this is the episode where i began to dislike her. it's not that she's "bitchy," a vague gendered slur that i really dislike, it's that she's really immature. and it's really fucking annoying to watch someone so fucking immature never fucking learn anything.
Despite the fact that I have almost zero knowledge of old!Who, I loved this episode. As soon as I understood who Sarah Jane was, her every interaction with the Doctor got me all misty-eyed. It's enough for me to know that there is a lot of history between them, without having to know exactly what that history is. The episode is well-written enough that, for me at least, the emotional impact came across. The monster story was uninteresting to me, but it amused me greatly to see Tony Head being evil in a school. Oh, Giles! How I've missed you!
The jealousy thing is a very New Who phenomenon – it isn't exclusive to Rose, but she's the strongest example of it. Observe as she mouths "No!" when the Doctor offers Mickey a place in the TARDIS. Compare this, if you will, with the Rose who herself invited Mickey on board last season.
No, I don't like S2 Rose very much; why do you ask? I mean, how freaking ridiculous is thinking that in 900+ years the Doctor's only travelled with her? Just in the time she's known him he's taken two other people on board. Why on earth would she be the most Very Speshul One? It feels like the writing desperately trying to shove Rose and the Doctor into a boyfriend/girlfriend template of some kind which is utterly ludicrous when one of the parties involved isn't even human.
But like I said, she's hardly the only character in New Who to be a jealous ass. Mickey and the Doctor are guilty at times, and in this episode Sarah Jane was as well. And it annoys the ever-loving shit out of me every single time it happens because I despise watching jealousy. Nevertheless…
…I had never seen a Sarah Jane episode before I watched this, but I think that Lis Sladen and David Tennant had absolutely sensational chemistry, far better than what the latter has with Billie Piper. The moment when Ten recognizes Sarah Jane in the school, the sheer delight on his face during their first conversation – that's some of the best acting Tennant has done so far during his run. And I love the Sarah Jane I've subsequently come to know in her spinoff. So I regard the idea of her pining for the Doctor and never getting closure until this episode as extremely OOC. Sarah Jane is the sort of woman who Gets Shit Done – she's just not a piner.
Funny, isn't it, that it's Sarah Jane who gets Nine's words: "Everything has its time, and everything ends." Nine fatalistically accepted that fact; Ten is bridling at it a bit. When Rose thinks that Sarah Jane is a glimpse of the future, he denies that he'd ever (metaphorically speaking) drop her off in Aberdeen – he's implicitly promising Rose forever. But everything withers and ages and changes, including the Doctor as he regenerates, and his mutual determination with Rose to somehow stay in a two-person bubble that's immune to those forces seems…misguided. At best.
So I kinda half love this episode, half roll my eyes at it. But that's a better ratio than the first few outings of season 2, so hurray for "School Reunion". 🙂
WE ARE IN A CAR.
Funny, isn't it, that it's Sarah Jane who gets Nine's words: "Everything has its time, and everything ends." Nine fatalistically accepted that fact; Ten is bridling at it a bit.
Oh my God, you're right and it's not like he even has a reason. And yeah, Rose in Series 2… mmf.
as a local i can tell you that not only is south croydon quite far from aberdeen, but also a bit of a whole. being droped off in south croydon would not be nice. and its miles to the nerest desent train station!
Google Maps says a 10 hour drive. Poor Sarah Jane.
And you've got to wonder how much Earth (let alone British!) money she had on her at the time. Somehow I can just imagine her having to call UNIT or someone being like "Yeah, an alien got me stuck out here. Help?"
We can probably assume she'd have whatever money she left the house with prior to travelling, which would be in Sterling (i.e. UK pounds) but the time travelling aspect brings new problems even with that, given how accurate the TARDIS isn't. Jumping forwards a year or two would be ok, moneywise, but going back just a couple of years vould cause problems paying anyone sharp-eyed enough to notice.
For instance a quick check of my pocket reveals £47.83. If Iwas to be accidentally dropped of by a tiem traveller in 2007 the notes would be ok (designs from 2006) but about a quarter of the coins were minted in 2009 and 2010. Others go back to 1982!
Trying to explain coins with a date three yaers in the future could lead to some interesting conversations…
I don't get the Rose hate. That's all I can say. I'm seeing a lot of assessments of her character that are totally baffling me. I literally have no idea where people are drawing them from. She's full of drama? What? Life with the DOCTOR is full of drama. Like, every day. She's too clingy? Nine DIED for her, and yet as Ten still loves her. Yeah, I think I'd get pretty attached to that guy too, though I don't see how her character changes at all significantly on that point anyway. Just… I don't get it.
Anyway, I agree, this episode is really quite bad, but I love it anyway, cuz the rapport between SJ and R becomes hilarious and even though I had no background in the old DW's I got a kick out of K9.
I just found this blog, and as I just started watching new-Who myself (Got series 1-3 for Christmas) I'm sure I'll enjoy watching the series along with you.I really liked the reunion with Sarah Jane and K9 in this ep.
I was four years old when the last years of the original Doctor Who was on, and I really don't remember much beyond "Daleks!" and "Time-travelling phone booth!" and "THIS IS SO COOL". Even so, they treated the reunion with just the right hint of nostalgia on the Doctor's part that it really struck a chord with me, even though I can't remember classic Who in any detail.
Season 2 is probably my least favourite but this is one of its better eps.
In theory I like the idea of the doctor having to face upto his past since he leaves everyone behind and forgets about them while they don't forget him, but I kind of hate that they had to deal with it in such a cliche and stereotypical way having Rose and Sarah Jane fighting like jealous exes cause LOL the womens they are so catty amirite.
Also I didn't get to read through the comments but did anyone mention how Rose really didn't seem thrilled about Mickey tagging along.
I've been watching these episodes with my daughter (who is 6 and I think it's adorable that when I pick her up from school her question is no longer "what's for dinner?" but "can we watch Doctor Who tonight?"), but when we got to this one I let her watch it by herself because I just, ugh. It's a really weak episode and I can't bring myself to watch it again.
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